Trump: Making It Respectable to Be a Right-Wing Nut
There’s no more hiding for Republicans. The wolf is no longer at the door. He has actually been invited in for tea and crumpets and is now sitting primly in the parlor chatting amiably while he plots mayhem and destruction for the party that once stood for prudence and probity.
Now it is in danger of standing for paranoid kookiness. As responsible adults in the party wring their hands in worry and frustration, a smiling Donald Trump unleashes the crazies, bringing them into the light and showering them with respectability dust. The Hofstadter Brigade of birthers, conspiracists, racists, and born again Birchers — people who give right wing wackos a bad name — have been given permission by at least one adult to go roll around in the mud and mess themselves without having to clean up before dinner. Giving this crew their heads by joining them in their fantasies is either the most irresponsible move ever made by a serious candidate for president, or a brilliant stroke of self-promotion that will pay big dividends for Trump when all the excitement about his candidacy dies down.
I suspect the latter. Trump, for all his bluster, can’t seriously believe that the certification of live birth issued by the Obama campaign in 2008 and confirmed as authentic by the state of Hawaii is a forgery, or was planted by Communists, or was altered in some way. There is not one scintilla of evidence for any of those possibilities — at least, evidence that would be accepted by someone with more than two brain cells working.
If altered or a forgery, then a conspiracy of gigantic proportions involving many members of the government of Hawaii has been hidden from all of us, except those few who have been vouchsafed the ability to see what isn’t there. Members of the conspiracy that has aided Obama would include former Republican Governor of Hawaii Linda Lingle and former Republican Lt. Governor James Aiona. Why they would want to hide the origins of Obama’s birth can only be guessed at. Maybe they’re closet commies or something.
Equally puzzling is the question of who might have planted fake birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers. Trump believes it was Obama’s grandparents:
TRUMP: The grandparents put that [birth announcement] in [the newspaper] because obviously they want him to be a United States citizen because in those days, people were much more proud than they are today unfortunately for being a United States citizen.
So they wanted him to be a citizen of the United States, for that purpose, and also for hospitalization, for welfare, for this, for that, for all the other assets you get from being a United States citizen. So there are a lot of very smart people who say that is routinely done and that was done by his grandparents.
The welfare state was only a twinkle in LBJ’s eye in 1961 so one might wonder what kind of “assets” Obama and his family would be eligible for if they faked his birth announcement in a newspaper — a piece of “evidence” that wouldn’t be acceptable for identification purposes at any government agency in the first place.
But who are we to question a scam artist calling out other scam artists? For the record, however, please name just one of these “very smart people” who claim that this kind of scam was routine in 1961. An appeal to authority using “very smart people” isn’t even employed in high school debating much less by someone supposedly running for the leader of the free world. It’s statements like these that make one think that The Donald isn’t very serious about running.
By latching on to the birther movement, Donald Trump has accomplished more than just giving his possible presidential campaign a rocket-powered boost in publicity. He has also inadvertently revealed the Republican Party to be singularly unserious about governing the country. A party that features a large mass of voters who view questions about Obama’s origins with an uncritical eye and contempt for logic and reason is a party that can’t be trusted with the privy seal.
How many Republicans actually doubt Obama’s origins? A recent Public Policy Polling survey found 42% of likely New Hampshire primary voters believing that Barack Obama was not born in America. Another 35% aren’t sure. And a recent CNN poll found 27% of Republicans nationwide saying Obama was probably not born in America with another 14% saying he definitely was born elsewhere.
That same CNN poll showed Trump in a tie with Mike Huckabee at 19% for the Republican nominee for president. In New Hampshire, Trump beats Mitt Romney among the Tea Party 23-21, but trails the former Massachusetts governor overall by 7 points. And only 56% of Republicans want to see Trump run. This suggests a media boomlet for Trump — the result of his wildly increased visibility in playing to the birthers.
Trump will not be able to ride the fringe for very long and expect to be taken seriously by a majority of Republicans. The question is, what else does he have to offer in the way of policy proposals that would attract Republican primary voters?
His views on foreign policy would have little to recommend him to GOP voters looking for a responsible leader:
As for foreign policy, Mr. Trump said he is “only interested in Libya if we take the oil,” and that if he were President, “I would not leave Iraq and let Iran take over the oil.” He remains sharply critical of the Chinese, asserting that as President, “I would tell China that you’re either going to shape up, or I’m going to tax you at 25% for all the products you send into this country.”
It’s hard to tell sometimes whether Trump’s bombast is sincere or whether he is making provocative statements like taking Libya’s oil as a means to keep his media irons white hot. Every reporter likes a quotable subject and The Donald never disappoints in that respect.
What attracts the conservative base to Trump besides his questions about Obama’s origins is that he appears to have opened up an emotionally satisfying line of attack against the president. He is attacking the president “head on,” as Rush Limbaugh points out:
There’s a mythology that has been created about Obama that unnecessarily makes people afraid, and Trump is illustrating the way to do this, and Paul Ryan’s budget, just go right after him. You just go right after him, instead of pussyfooting around, worrying about what the independents are gonna say or worried about what the people that pay attention to politics two days a year are gonna say, just go after it.
Trump’s going “right after him” is what the conservative base believes John McCain didn’t do in the 2008 campaign. Despite running an extremely negative campaign, McCain’s failure was that he didn’t make an issue of Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers, Father Pfleger, or any of the other radical associations in Obama’s past and present. Nor did McCain refer to Obama as a “Marxist” or a “socialist” often enough. This is what the conservative base means when they want GOP candidates to “go after” Obama. And it’s what Rush Limbaugh means when he says that the GOP should forget about what independents might think and attack the president in a far more personal way than they have previously. The irony is that the harder Obama is hit, the more sympathy he garners and legitimate criticisms of his disastrous policies are given less weight.
Trump is obliging the base — with a vengeance. If he was using the truth rather than old, debunked myths about Obama’s origins — including the ridiculous story about Obama’s grandmother claiming he was born in Kenya — he might have made an impact on the race. As it is, he has given legitimacy to a bunch of right-wing extremists who are unswayed by reason, logic, or the truth that lies right in front of their noses.
Trump is a well know money man in the world of high finance. He has a ‘nose’ and an aptitude for not only knowing where the money is, but in following where the money goes.
So when a man, Obama, spends millions of dollars to totally hide his background, there are those who know something about just why one would subject a fortune to this venture.
So, just why would someone go 100% fully public in order to spend a personal fortune on hiding anything like birth or education?
It does not really make much sense. Or do we just have a senseless prez?
yes we have a senseless IDIOT sitting in the oval office doing his damnedest to drive this country into the ground and a bunch of gutless politicians who will not challenge him.he is not KING obama. he was elected as president supposedly to lead this great nation,
Why would any individual waste a million dollars in legal fees when, with less effort than it takes to type this comment, he could reach into a desk drawer and and say, ” Here it is. “, instead?
Menachem, that is a very good question.
There are many more questions about the president.
If he was born in Hawaii, then what about his citizenship after his mother remarried and they moved to Indonesia? School records there showed that he was an Indonesian citizen and his religion was Islam.
Obama arrived in Indonesia at about the age of five according to most accounts, although it was possible he arrived at the age of six, according to a few sources. If Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama at age five or younger, then Obama would automatically have become an Indonesian citizen according to the country’s laws in the 1960′s, which stipulated any child aged five or younger adopted by an Indonesian father is immediately granted Indonesian citizenship upon completion of the adoption process.
Indonesian law at the time also did not recognize dual citizenship, meaning if Obama became Indonesian, then as far as that country was concerned, his U.S. citizenship was no longer recognized by Indonesia. But U.S. law would still recognize Obama as an American citizen.
Even so, this is still disturbing to many Americans. Where does Obama’s loyalty lie? Why is the Obama administration and the DOJ letting CAIR off the hook when there is evidence that they are co-conspirators with terrorist organizations? Why did Obama so blatantly snub Netanyahu not once but twice? Why did he send a bust of Winston Churchill gifted to the American people by England to the UK embassy?
What country does he really represent? Whose constitution does he hold dear? Why is he treating our oldest and most loyal allies like garbage?
The fact that he has been so cagey and sealing his personal records from the public has worked in his favor. All kinds of people come out of the woodwork insisting that it must mean something devastatingly controversial. It is easy to paint these people as crazy. Some of them are.
Perhaps all of the subterfuge is something much less exciting, but even more damaging.
He doesn’t want the world to know just how mediocre he really is. When he was running for POTUS he was held up as a genius, a paragon of wisdom and ideology. Having his records available for all to see would reveal the truth. There is nothing exceptional about him except for his performance in public speaking. Even then the quality of his performance is inconsistent.
Once all of the records that he has kept hidden are revealed, instead of asking “how did he get away with it?” we will be asking “how could someone this mediocre ever get this far?”
We already know he sucks at math.
According to Mr. Moran, that simple, obvious question puts you in the category of “crazies” who need to be “[brought] into the light and [showered] with respectability dust.”
Odd, isn’t it? The facts are all out there, and are really very simple. We have a person who cannot or will not produce the expected form of birth certificate which was normally used in that state at that time. Instead, he proffers a different sort of form, a form which SHOULD NOT have been used for a hospital birth, rather, was intended specifically for NON-hospital births. These could be (and were) simply “phoned in”. No proof, no paperwork, no evidence required.
In fact, by itself, the mere existence of the “short form” certificate is strongly suggestive that there WAS no hospital birth.
Adding to that, the new governor of Hawaii, a STRONG supporter of Barack Obama, promised to produce the long form. He has now admitted that no such document exists. Did you get that? A person with the and resources to find that long form has admitted that it does not exist.
Then we have his grandmother saying she was present when he was born in Kenya. Oh, and the Kenyan government has sealed the hospital records. Hmmm. What’s to seal?
What is so hard to understand about this?
Nothing.
So, what is really going on with guys like Moran?
Bother. That should have been “A person with the motive and resources…”
What’s going on with guys on the left like Moran is simply that they see Trump starting to resonate with the American people on issues like debt, jobs and the U.S. being a politically-correct door mat for China and other countries. Time to start up their smear machine and Trump’s “birther” comments are the logical place to start.
I would be interested in seeing your ‘documentation’ supporting that Obama has spent “millions of dollars to totally hide his background” as you claim. I know of NO court actions that have required more than minimal filings of short precise statutory briefs on behalf of Obama….all of which have prevailed with little or no actual court room time and expense. What have I missed?
You have missed the news, that is all. This is somewhat dated, so the tab is not in the zillions yet:
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=106138
Doubtless the guys at WND will have a more current figure; just contact them.
Mulatto….thanks for the useless link and information! My question still stands!
Lawyers and law firms have to account for their time and expenses charged, in a legal case log. For all your information link provided the payments disclosed, could have been routine retainer payments for any number of legal reasons and service needs….to include publishing matters and a host of other dignitary and socialite business and personal matters requiring legal services.
Want to try agaqin?
Your question got answered, Thomas. I pointed you in the right direction, of which you seem oblivious. Let me be clear: I am done. Do not call me with your queries. Call them.
You simply have missed all information yet to be revealedd in discovery process inhibited by the “defence by delay” tactics commonly used by the elite and employed by corrupt lawyers and judges. Get used to it and find other sources or compose plan “B” looking closely at all deemed to be conspiracies by any media stooge.
” I would be interested in seeing your ‘documentation’ supporting that Obama has spent “millions of dollars to totally hide his background” as you claim. I know of NO court actions that have required more than minimal filings of short precise statutory briefs on behalf of Obama….all of which have prevailed with little or no actual court room time and expense. What have I missed? ”
The point.
Lets say for the sake of this discussion the cost to Obama is $1.00
Does that excuse the waste of The Courts time, paid for with taxes by the way, when the legal system is both overburdened and has more important things to do?
To engage in a frivolous lawsuit is supremely unpatriotic. It should be an honor for any American to present his bonafides to hold the highest office in the land.
Following the money trails for motive is always a rewarding task once you have a patch cord into high finance but privileged information assimilation may carry hazardous risks for future access to a higher tax bracket within comfortable parameters.
Having reached the billion apex level of wealth,Trump’s next goal may be to buy Obama for what he is worth after all his true character is revealed and sell him to Soros for what he thinks he is worth with paid cover up and journalistic omission.
The silence of Moranic misdirection comprised of continuing innuendos questioning proven past conspiracies and yet providing no investigation or unpublished relevant facts remains deafening.
Such drivel can only be based on a biased assumption that lib readers never stray from the thoroughly screened aggregate held together by alien agenda and used to pave the yellow brick road to a future wonderland.
Trump as a reseller? A very intriguing idea, and potentially with a very profitable outcome. It would be a gamble of a lifetime, I believe. Risky as well, since there are already some corpses on Obama trail.
Mr. Moran, with all due respect, you are clueless about the issue regarding Obama’s birth certificate. In Hawaii, there are two kinds, a ‘Certification of Live Birth’ (COLB), and a ‘Long Form Birth Certificate’. The former is essentially a useless sham in that it can be issued at the whim of any relative’s request and thus contain misleading information. So far it is the only thing that Obama has allowed to be released, or more correctly, a digital COPY is the only thing released. However, legally, it means very little. That is where the long form comes in… it is the ONLY document that contains information regarding exactly where someone was born, and exactly who were the parents, and includes information issued by the hospital which oversees the actual birth. This document has not only not been released, its existence is very much in doubt. The current Democrat Hawaii governor has specifically looked, and admits he can’t find it.
This latter is where Trump has come into the picture, and here there is also a clear-cut distinction that you seem to have deliberately missed. Trump is NOT attempting to state where Obama was born, nor who he was born to, nor indeed accuse Obama of anything except one glaring omission. Instead, Trump is saying precisely and correctly that this whole issue is the fault of Obama, who continues to refuse to release full legal records regarding his birth and background in contrast to almost every other recent Presidential candidate, and instead stonewalls and thus brings upon himself those questions that the American public has every right to ask.
Regarding Iraq, it is refreshing to hear a candidate speak first in terms of America’s interests, and NOT in terms of some vague Utopian (and ultimately leftist) double-speak about exporting democracy. Quite frankly, a little reality and plain-speaking from a prospective candidate is not only refreshing, it is long overdue. I, for one, am becoming more and more impressed that a self-made man who knows directly about free enterprise, also has the cojones to speak freely and clearly about the current state of the traditionalist culture that is truly America, and not simply some propositional nation floating around in the fevered imaginations of both the left and the neocons.
Do your homework, sir… Trump is NOT allied with the birthers, and at this point he appears to be both asking and responding to serious questions in a serious, forthright manner. Your writings so far are little better than a smear campaign, and do you little credit.
Charles, clearly Moran is the clueless one on this hot potato subject.I have been following this issue from the onset, there is no doubt that Obama is hiding a secret of inordinate magnitude.
When it was first suggested that he may not have been eligible I was shocked, even though I loathed his radical ideology from the onset.HOWEVER, as the evidence-yes, there is plenty-amassed it became crystal clear that he is hiding his origins, either his birthplace or his parentage, either which would upend his Presidency.
Those who mock the so called ‘birthers’ are the ones who are radical and conspiracy mongers. Most importantly, two things-out of many!-stand tall.Why is he spending millions to hide the ORIGINAL certificate-not a COLB which in Hawaii anyone can get-and why are ALL his records hidden, the likes of which has NEVER been done by any other President?
In addition, his friends at the Nation of Islam-yes, he is very cozy with them-are on tape saying that he is indeed a Muslim and NOT the son of Obama Sr.The question becomes-why would they say this, to what end?
When there are more questions than answers, there is surely much to hide.
Right wing nuts?In a pig’s eye….
Adina, thank you for the additional information, and thank God for Israel. Regardless of what the vile Obama’s agenda may be, Israel is America’s ally and friend and the only true democracy in an otherwise seething pit of vipers.
I can confirm Adina’s long-term interest in this issue as she can probably say the same for me. Many of the Muslim fellow travelers like to think that he is the son of Malcolm X (so maybe his birth name is ‘Little’)?
In fact the unusual facial structure in the following photo is very much like that of the slain Black Muslim leader:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/15/obama-disappointed-lack-cool-phone-oval-office/
American Muslims love to point to such things to claim his lineage to Malcolm X.
I think Barry looks more like Frank Marshall Davis and I’d be happy to be learn there is no family connection when the documents are released. Stanley Ann was probably never married and in 1961 it was not “cool” to be a communist, that took a few more years.
Perhaps he was born Barry Dunham and his birth certificate was amended when he was adopted by Soetero. Multiple names, multiple passports, interesting. Gore claimed to have been the inspiration for “Love Story”, perhaps Barry was a real-life Jason Bourne. Nah.
Charles. I agree with you 110%. the major difference here is one man knows how to make money, the other knows how to give away other peoples money but not his own and he damned well knows how to waste the tax payers money,it will be so good when his sorry a** is gone.
Well said Charles!
Rick, you are usually level headed and well researched. You fell down here. There is a legitimate issue with the circumstances regarding Obama’s birth, and his CITIZENSHIP. Frankly I do not care where he was born for one reason. I will state is in the form of a question:
How can a man born under the British Nationality Act of 1948 be a Natural Born Citizen of the United States???
Answer: HE CANNOT BE A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES. Natural Born Citizenship requires being born under the sole jurisdiction of the United States. Obama is merely hiding this fact behind the COLB controversy. Once that distraction has been dealt with, it leaves Obamas REAL eligibility issue in the glaring open. The man is an usurper and should be in prison.
I agree with the previous poster. Rick shows no evidence of ever having investigating the issue itself (that of the facts or non-facts of Obama’s Hawaii birth). Then he launches into a broadside full of invective while denouncing the ‘far-right’ on that basis – that they are nothing but emotional haters. This article is simply absurd because it is nearly fact-free regarding the actual issues.
I have to wonder why so many pundits refuse to recognize there’s a reality based question about the lack of documentation regarding Obama? Do these creeps just like to poke us in the eyes with snarky little articles like Moran’s (actually Moran writes this trashy type frequently)? Reminds me of the slime written before Bill Clinton’s confession about ‘that woman’.
Sorry,Ricky…but you crapped your panties on this one…the so called COLB that has been posted all over the internet for the nast couple of years is an obvious photoshopped forgery…and not to rub your nose in it too much,but the serial # of the certificate on the top right has clearly been redacted…that’s blacked out to you….and at the bottom of the COLB it clearly states that any alteration of it renders it invalid….not to mention it states that Obama’s father’s race is “African”..guess you missed that as well…so clearly you’ve not seen it yourself and you’re just talking through your hat….but thanks for showing us what a full blooded ignoramus you really are….now be a good boy and go tell your mommy she wants you for something.
Think the democrats would act differently if the shoe were on the other foot?
Not at all. The NY Times ran a three month campaign against john mccain questioning his presidential eligibility until he produced a birth certificate and the senate produced a resolution vouchsafing that mccain is a “natural born” citizen.
It doesn’t sound like the author of this article was around in the days leading up to watergate and its aftermath. In the famous words of bob dylan–Even the president must stand naked. Currently he is shrowded in a fabricated myth.
Excellent point, Charles. And I still remember how the Democrats and the media went after Bush’s military records – like rabid dogs. What I find most suspicious is the fact that Obama’s education records are closed. I would like to know who paid for his education, what his scores were and what classes he attended. But to the left that is normal?
jarmo, what IS known is that a Saudi Prince went to bat for Obama re Harvard. Percy Sutton, long-time Dem political heavyweight from NYC, (inadvertently)revealed as much in a televised interview.I nearly fell off my seat when I heard it.
A few questions emerge-what interest was it to a Sunni Muslim from halfway around the world to serve as his intermediary(most likely his benefactor too), and why couldn’t he get admitted on his own merits, after all, he is touted as a mega intellectual?(I know what it takes to get admitted to the Ivies, BOTH my sons had multiple offers a few years back, without anything other than stellar academic records.It can be done…..)
The above questions are not only legitimate, but require urgent answers.
The principle is simple: those wielding greater power are held to higher standards.
According to Moran, Trump is a “nut” for seeking a higher standard of documentation – a certificate that is easy to produce. For some reason, Moran doesn’t feel the need to hold Obama to a higher standard. Perhaps he’s racist. The fact that a cavalier commander-in-chief would see an honorable soldier (Lakin) go to jail over this birth certificate issue is nothing less than Conduct Unbecoming A President.
If there is no inconvenient truth to hide then why the continuing refusal to produce a birth certificate and settle the question? How can anybody be accepted as President without a proper birth certificate in the public record? I don’t know what the truth is, but isn’t that the problem? Why is there a question at all?
I don’t know what the answer is either. Maybe Obama was born here, maybe not. But the issue that Trump (and others) brought up was a good one. Why spend all that money to seal your records? It does seem like there is something he doesn’t want to people to see. And if you’re president, the people have a right to know who you are.
And about a certificate of live birth? Not worth the paper it’s written on really. In order to be able to be used for anything, a birth certificate needs a seal. Usually, but not always, a raised seal somewhere at the bottom of the paper. Certificate of Live Birth and Birth Certificate are not one and the same and normally Cert. of Live Birth is not acceptable if a Birth Certificate is demanded. I had to get a new copy, with a seal on it, for my passport.
“There is not one scintilla of evidence for any of those possibilities…”
Kind of like there isn’t a scintalla of evidence against people who are subjected to forced body searches at airports.
The powers that be want to keep their privacy, even when it comes to the most trivial matters…our privacy isn’t quite so sacrosanct.
And, that’s what this is all about.
Make that “scintilla”, not “scintalla”.
Getting so old, I can’t keep my vowels straight.
One word, Dave:
Prunes.
LOL….but seriously, they’re the thinking person’s fast food!
the biggest problem with “birthers” – and “truthers”, of course – is that they are so obnoxious and relentless that they drown any conversation between normal people.
and then they act indignant when suggested to see the mental specialist, of which they could greatly benefit.
the author of the article is absolutely right, although, if one considers trolling as an art form, trump is picasso. give him that.
It’s a good thing your post is notable for its fact-free assertions and arrogant tone… otherwise, people might think you actually had something worthwhile to say.
Your progressive tropes are mildly amusing, but they’re not working, so why not drop it? Oh I forgot, you first have to ask your handlers who are part of the thinly-disguised left-wing conspiracy about your daily marching orders. You are simply another progressive robot, masquerading as a human being.
oh, forgot to add: and they always attack the messenger instead of addressing the message. icing on a sh*tcake, so to speak.
so, if for you even people on right wing site who disagree with your pointless obsession are “progressive tropes” “who are part of the thinly-disguised left-wing conspiracy”, why don’t you birthers just all go away to some place where you won’t be disturbed by rational people, left or right?
the only purpose you serve now is for actual “progressive tropes” to point at you an say “see? all right wingers are that crazy”. thanks a lot.
Mr. Poul, I did what I did to make a point. You may or may not be progressive (probably not), but did you really stop to consider what Rick Moran said in light of freely available information? Please make distinctions when they are necessary, it is the conservative thing to do. In this case, I tend to agree that birthers are CURRENTLY engaged in pointless and overreaching conclusions as to Obama’s origins. Further revelations may or may not support their cause. However, Moran has likewise engaged in similar speculation. He has come to unwarranted conclusions, and then used them to paint Trump and his potential supporters with a broad and undeserved brush. Did I do the same to you? If so, my apologies. However, next time please think before you agree with someone who engages in nothing more than fact-free assertions. As you can see, it is no fun being on the receiving end.
the facts of the matter have been discussed so many times in so many places, it’s truly nauseating. this is why i refuse to go there, together with all the sane people.
it is indisputable fact that obama was born in hawaii. if he is hiding something, it’s something different, not related to his place of birth, and he is entitled to do so. alternatively, he is just trolling the crazies on the right so the mar the reputation of the whole movement. either way, the author is absolutely correct.
you know how will it end? trump will fail to get the republican nomination, run as independent, take the crazies’ vote with him, and ensure obama’s reelection. I even suspect he is paid by soros to do so.
think about it.
oh, and while we’re at it, dear crazies – not you personally, generic ones – stop calling obama socialist. he is not – his economic policies are fascist, to the letter.
I see that you haven’t addressed any of the substantial questions about Obama’s history and the complete lack of documentation thereof (and the stonewalling of any attempt to acquire such documentation). Instead, all you can do is fling your crap at those you dislike, much like the monkeys in the zoo. That’s pretty much what the American people have come to expect from you clowns, of course.
This Rick Moran post is pretty weak and below Pajama Media’s standards.
Obama openly stated that the ‘birther’ issue will only hurt the GOP (was it a threat?); Glenn Beck may have said the same thing – unless he was joking. Now Mr Moran as well !!
Is Obama:
1) Barack Hussein Obama
or
2) Barry Soetero
Bottom line: He is OUR employee and we should demand proof of his eligibility to be in the position of president.
I would never vote for Trump as President but Mr Trump is the ONLY one who has had the guts to confront ANYONE in the media about Obama’s obfuscations and complete lack of vetting by our ‘trusted’ media. Obama can lie and manufacture any truth he wants and nobody confronts him with any questions or critique. Amazing. Furthermore; Mr Trump has ‘trumped’ Obama’s celebrity status as well; which is huge.
In light of the entirety of Obama’s ‘deceit’ campaigning (called being president); I for one, need for him to come clean on his past and his present; I feel cheated and betrayed with this fool using the office of the presidency to further a dangerous, disasterous and childish idological agenda.
On this issue, Rick Moran is wrong, and Donald Trump is right.
The U.S. Constitution requires that the POTUS be a natural born citizen. Out of respect for the U.S. Constitution, anyone who wishes to be POTUS should be expected to make a disclosure of documents, particularly an original birth certificate, in order to demonstrate eligibility under the U.S. Constitution to be POTUS.
Disclosure of an original birth certificate is really nothing. You have to do that in order to play Little League baseball.
Contrast what John McCain and Barack Obama did with respect to this issue. When the issue came up as to John McCain because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone (into a distinguished American military family), he did a public disclosure of relevant documents, including his birth certificate and hospital records, and he hired Larry Tribe and Ted Olsen to address the legal analysis to establish that McCain was and is qualified to be POTUS. Senate Resolution 2008-511 reflects that conclusion. That is what John McCain, a patriot who served his country as a Naval combat aviator during the Vietnam War, did and did appropriately out of respect for the U.S. Constitution. In contrast, Barack Obama, whose father had British citizenship, has litigated for years and still has not produced his original birth certificate. That is what Barack Obama, a one-time socialist community organizer, did and did, in my opinion, with insufficient regard to the U.S. Constitution.
Unfortunately, Obama HAS NO respect for the Constitution. With the appointment of numerous czars, he has attempted to do an end run around the authority of Congress, and implement his agenda by regulation and fiat.
And when the courts tell one of the federal agencies, run by his appointees, that they have no authority to do something, he ignores the courts and moves ahead, and the courts seem powerless to apply any criminal penalty to stop the lawless behavior. Even more worrying, is that the President can declare martial law without the approval of any other governmental body. This is a very dangerous administration.
Mr. Trump has done America a great service. The media cannot so easily denounce him as a birther and right wing looney, and make it stick. Mr. Trump may be able to bring closure to the question of Mr. Obama’s natural born status, once and for all, and that is a good thing. But for Americans to be smeared by the media, because they demand that the government and the courts insist that the requirement to be president, as stated in the Constitution, be adhered too, is outrageous.
Could it be that the courts will not confront this issue because they are afraid of the implications? Would all the laws that the pretender signed, as well as all his appointments, be invalid, and subject to reversal? I for one, would delight in the removal of Sotomayer and Kagan, from SCOTUS. Interestingly enough, they would probably have to recuse themselves, if a case for their removal, ever came before the court.
The American people are being shamed by the establishment media of both sides into feeling embarassed about asking for their rights. We as a nation have a right to know who we are being asked to follow. We have a right to know who is this man we have as our President who decides to send our sons and daughters into harms way. We have a right to know who is subverting and bypassing our elected representatives. We have a right to know where he came from and who his parents were and just where he was born and what his beliefs and values are. We have been denied those rights. We are not “birthers” or nuts or conspiracy believers, we are citizens who are the base of authority in this nation. We are the ones apon which this great nation places it’s ultimate trust. We don’t care where Mr. Obama was born, we care if we can trust him. So far the answer for millions of us appears to be no, we can not. But most galling is the nerve of our “elites” to belittle us for asking for our God given rights to ask the question.
He should have to play by the rules regardless of what it exposes. You have to wonder what concessions were made to give him a pass. It may unravel a very tangled web.
Rick Moran knows next to nothing about this issue. He might start his education here: http://www.westernjournalism.com/exclusive-investigative-reports/clearing-the-smoke-june10/
Terry thank you for the URL on the particulars of the definition of what is a “birth certificate” in 1961 Hawaii. I thought I had read most of the available information but your reference was by far the most informative and believable explanation of the details that I have seen. I would recommend it to all others interested in this matter. We really deserve an answer to this question.
There are alot of inconsistencies in the myth of Obama…I’m sure that Mr. Moran is far removed from how the bureaucratic process actually works, and consequently can’t conceive of anyone gaming the system…I for one am not biased one way or the other, but the tactic of belittling people that question the ‘facts’ suggests to me that they are on to something, and the more I dig the more I tend to think we should demand full disclosure…father’s raced : African. huh? Not a choice on any contemporaneous official form from I’ve seen. Look it up. A minor nit but an inconsistency nonetheless.
The rumors that Donald Trump went bankrupt are ridiculous.
Likewise the idea that there might be a government conspiracy, ever.
I am laughing so hard, but I am not smiling, because if you want
to put a puppet in office, you need to have some strings on him.
Mr. Moran, did Bill O’Reilly write this piece for you?
It’s so “Factor”ish!
Mr. Moran, I vehemently disagree about Trump raising the eligibility issue. Many claim it’s a sideshow but I think it clearly indicates that Obama has been a fraud literally from day one. It’s a very tangible issue that anyone can understand because we American citizens are asked to produce identification, including things like long-form birth certificates, all the time and know what sort of problems we would have if we dodged such requests in our lives.
I think that my conservative friends that share your view do so because their only reference is the 2008 election when everyone was drunk on Hope-n-Change Kool-Aide and dreamed of an Obama presidency in some sort of emotional anti-Bush abstract. Any challenges (e.g., pronouncing The One’s middle name in a public forum) was anathema. Well, it’s not 2008 anymore.
Things are different now because Obama has a visible track record that jibes with his non- or even anti-American nature. The Ministry of Propaganda is pulling out the old “oh, the birthers, yawn” response but the “problem” is that people are saying “wait a second, let me hear what Trump has to say.” The longer that Obama refuses to produce the long-form birth certificate, the more the basic facts — not in his favor — will sink in, people will link them with his incomprehensible behavior (e.g., his constant apologizing for America, supporting our enemies and trashing our friends) and they’ll connect the dots — he lacks an essential American nature.
We must now move Obama from his lofty “above-the-fray” PASSIVE position to an ACTIVE one and be held accountable thus in ’12 (regarding ALL issues), e.g., regarding eligibility up till now Team Obama has put the onus of active role on those questioning his invisible paper trail and have made the conclusion that they think such because they’re a bunch of hate-filled haters. Here’s a simple way to move him to ACTIVE position on this (I know that no journalist has the courage to ask this, but I’ll put it out there just in case Donald Trump reads it):
“Mr. President, are you refusing to release your records because you have something to hide or are you intentionally ginning up curiosity so that you can gain political traction by labeling anyone who wonders about your deliberately concealed past as an ignorant racist?”
This also puts Obama into a lose-lose position on the issue.
Another canard that must be exposed and eliminated (in addition to the COLB that other commenters have astutely mentioned above) is that others (‘white men’) have had to prove their natural born status prior to running for president, e.g., even Dwight D. Eisenhower, former Supreme Allied Commander, Europe:
http://news.google.com/newspapers/p/deseret_news?nid=Aul-kAQHnToC&dat=19521002&printsec=frontpage
Scroll right till the electronic reader says “Page 4 of 31″, (but the actual newspaper page shown is page 6A). The article is headlined: “General’s Birth Certificate Officially Filed”.)
————–
Slightly off topic: Obama’s half-Sister Maya Soetoro-Ng, who’s apparently published a new book, was all over the news a couple of days ago practically demanding that all discussion on this topic cease immediately. I am certain that during the ’08 campaign the proto-”birthers” released on the internet copies of her short form Hawaiian COLB. Does anyone else remember this? I ask because it is an accepted fact that she was born in Jakarta, Indonesia and Stanley Anne obtained the Hawaiian COLB years later. This is a very important fact because it illustrates just how flimsy a Hawaiian COLB is in a claim for native-born citizenship.
Secondly, does anyone else think that al-Bama half-sister Maya is doing this press tour in order to get everyone used to the name SOETORO? Maybe something’s coming down the pike (e.g., paper responses to eligibility laws now being passed by Oklahoma and Arizona)???
btw, his half-sister was a baby when the boy king was in Indonesia and didn’t live with the family when obama returned to Hawaii. The only thing she could possibly know about obama is second hand information and what little a drug-addled teenage boy would whare with a sibling 8 years younger living in another country. In other words, she knows nothing about his past other than what little lenin has told her.
His other living relatives also had next to no contact with the family.
The people who would know about him: the mother, step-father, and grand parents are all dead. Oh, and his supposed biologicial father is also dead, as is “frank”. Convenient, isn’t it? I wonder what percentage of Americans of his age group have no living relatives who knew the child intimately. This fact alone isn’t a smoking gun, but it is only one of a seemingly infinite number of other strange and / or missing facts about his life.
Very good points.
Interesting what you say about his sister’s birth certificate. I’ll have to look into that. However, you should never draw absolute conclusions about circumstantial evidence. And that is exactly what exists concerning this issue. Though, it is intriguing, and something may pan out from it it doesn’t behoove mainstream conservative politics to follow it. That job belongs to people like yourself who take it up in the sidelines. What I suggest is that we do not tear each other apart in the process of advancing a focus, but have understanding about the appropriate respective position in it all. It may well be that this issue will take center stage, but that time isn’t now, and it shouldn’t be now, because ultimately it is a gamble – doesn’t matter how good you think your cards look. The mainstream focus must be concrete.
Mr. Moran:
” As it is, he has given legitimacy to a bunch of right-wing extremists who are unswayed by reason, logic, or the truth that lies right in front of their noses.”
Really, playa?
SInce you imply that YOU have, or have had, “the truth” in front of YOUR nose, thenanswer one question for us:
When did YOU personally see the person known as Barack Obama Jr.’s Certificate of Live Birth?
You have not, so your entire post excoriating us “Birthers” is based on ZERO factual evidence to attack those of us who are demanding that this man produce what evidence that he claims to have.
And if you feel in the mood for extra credit:
Who is Jean Paul Ludwig, and why is Barack Obama using his Connecticut Social Security Number?
C’mon, sparky…when did YOU personally see Barack Hussein Obama Jr.’s Certificate of Live Birth?
Betcha you will ignore the question…
Mr. Moran, we are all patiently awaiting your answer of when you have personally seen this Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.’s Hawaii-issued Certificate of Live Birth.
I understand you have a busy schedule, but you found time to write this insulting post, so I think it would behoove you to enlighten us about the evidence you have that the rest of us have not.
What say you, sir?
Mr. Moran:
Did you enjoy your weekend?
Now will you kindly answer my question?
Where and when did you personally view Barack Hussein Obama Jr.’s Certificate of Live Birth?
Here it is Wednesday, and still no answer from Mr. Moran.
Why am I not surprised?
No matter, he’ll post here at PJM again, and maybe he will answer the question of when he has personally seen Obama’s Certificate of Live Birth, (and thus has had the Truth under HIS nose) then.
Trump is one of the few people that dares to raise questions that all Americans should be asking of the Phantom AKA Obama.America and especially the press are afraid to question this fellow only because he is black. We saw how Chicago politics stormed over everyone and put Rham into office. Obama has a shady past and no real accompnishments in his life that were proven until he was elected.We know what a mess Chicago is in and they are destroying Illinois just like Obama and the Democrats are destroying America. People call Beck and now Trump Conspiracy nuts. Well it may not be a conspiracy,I do not know but the fact that America is being religated to a third world country is still happening.I have lived my life and if this what what young folks want so be it!
This is all too familiar as in Nancy Pelosi’s response to a reporter:”We need to pass it (Obamacare) to find out what’s in it.”
Or, Trump playing the role of Humphrey Bogart in “The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948)” where he asks the ‘supposed’ federales where their badges are.
“Bahdgees?”, “We ain’t got no bahdgees’.” “I don’t have to show you no es-stinking Bahdgees!!”
I’m starting to wonder if he was born of a jackal.
I’m a Professor Emeritus from a large MidWestern Public University.
I’m also a registered Democrat.
Mr. Moran, if you think that the “birthers” are “a bunch of right-wing extremists who are unswayed by reason, logic, or the truth” (your quote) then Sir, you’re plainly uninformed.
Every birther-bashing piece — regardless of the where on the political spectrum the writer exists — contains one huge, glaring, provably false statement.
The only one I have time to highlight is when Moran wrote “the certification of live birth issued by the Obama campaign in 2008 [was] confirmed as authentic,” linking to an AP wire report posted on FoxNews.com referring to the COLB as “the birth certificate.”
The fact is that no individual in Hawaii’s Department of Health has EVER confirmed that the COLB posted by the Obama campaign in 2008 is genuine. Read carefully. Don’t fall for the sleight of hand, as Bill O’Reilly has.
I also don’t have the time, it being close to Shabbat here in Jerusalem, but the evidence for Obama/Soetoro NOT qualifying as a natural-born citizen of the US is close to overwhelming. The evidence of the opposite is very thin.
I have more questions about Trump’s hair and what time limit defines a prostitute than I do about Obama’s birthplace.
always thought so, and now you admit it, you’re pretty much brain dead
That may be true but without context in this case not so bad. ‘Brain dead’ compared to who? If it is defined by compared to you and that mental case Trump, than I am fortunately still ahead of a man who rents hookers by the year since beautiful models tend to shy away from men who comb over their back hair onto their forehead who possess no money and with the sense of humor and elegance of a lamp post.
Trump will never run for President since he will immediately be explaining checks written out to women half his age he is little acquainted with. Watching ‘The Borgias’ on TV is fun but Trump can’t buy the Presidency of even a ‘brain dead’ America since solid gold trailer parks are still trailer parks.
” Watching ‘The Borgias’ on TV is fun but Trump can’t buy the Presidency of even a ‘brain dead’ America since solid gold trailer parks are still trailer parks.”
Who said anything about the Clintons?
The American Borgias from the trailer park…there ya go!
hookers and hairdos on the brain, that’s brain dead
That’s my point. Rather than just being himself instead of making a hair-do unique in history or renting out young models by the year, why doesn’t he act his age and let his hair be his hair and hang out with women who might actually hang out with him if he didn’t put his money through as many flips as his hair.
Trump’s a clown. I’m trying to imagine him hiking in the woods all by himself.
Why won’t Trump show his head – Freemason tattoo perhaps? Hmmmmmmmm? Holes maybe – the kind where if the wind blows his head makes a sound like a calliope?
bingo! obama’s sealed records are the issue, not hookers or trump’s hairdo
I like to think “I have more than 2 brain cells working” and don’t enjoy being insulted by one of my favorite blogs but I digress… as a proud birther and a native born, but NOT natural born American (both my parents were citizens of other nations at the time of my birth in CT), and as holder of multiple passports throughout my lifetime I do not believe I am eligible to be President (even though I am certainly more proud of my birthright than the current poser in the White House).
I not only question Obama’s birth certificate but also question whether what passport he may have used on his trips to Pakistan and Indonesia in his teens. I personally believe that his original birth certificate was amended to reflect his adoption to Mr. Soetero and that he has had (or still has) Indonesian citizenship. Although it may have been possible for an American citizen to visit Indonesia in 1981 it certainly would have been easier with an Indonesian passport. Obama has not only never released his birth certificate, but neither his collegiate records nor his passport records.
Can a dual citizen be eligible to be President? Does “natural born” constitutionality allow for other allegiances?
Somehow I think it took more than 2 brain cells to type this comment and I would love the author’s response towards what he considers to be the definition of “natural born” citizenship as opposed to “native born.”
This sort of thing is depressingly common with fellows like Trump.
I’m no class warrior, and have no particular axe to grind against the wealthy, but the stereotype of the savvy, hard-headed, tough-to-fool business tycoon is often pure BS. I’ve known plenty of entrepreneurs and executives, and the awful truth is, they have a particular weakness for crackpot theories outside their narrow areas of expertise.
Such men are often highly educated, but NARROWLY so. They’re generally intelligent, but their intellects are untrained and unformed in any (classically) liberal sense. They’ve seldom had to wrestle with abstract theories and political philosophy, and when they first encounter a novel idea or theory–ANY idea or theory–it tends to go to their heads like bourbon in a preschooler.
Long story short, cranks tend to abound in fields that are intellectually demanding, but technical and ghettoized from the Western educational tradition. Hence, you get fellows like Trump, Perot, and–dare I say–Ron Paul, M.D.
There’s a grain of truth in every ‘crackpot theory’ otherwise they would get no traction. The one thing you can’t deny is O’s proclivity towards obfuscation. Your generalized claims about people you disagree with carry no weight.
One of the many LITOM’s on this site….Legends in their own minds.
Bear’s first reply is Internet forensics at its best: go off on tangents so oblique to the original post that you don’t even achieve actual wrongness. (Although his maxim about conspiracy theories has mind-bending implications for the world at large–ipso facto, the Moon landing was at least MILDLY faked!)
And his second reply … well okay, I’ll give him that one. Good call.
…the ONLY person who has seen (according to her own statements) the ‘long form Birth certificate’ in the Office of HI’s Dept of Health is a certain Ms. C. Fukino. The whole credibility of the US President rests with her, her non sworn in a Court of Law, but just volunteered, uncontested, testimony and her alone! Obama’s legitimacy hangs on her words, and hers alone (imagine that, America).
Another Hi Elections Officer at the time of the 2008 elections, Tim Adams, has provided a signed sworn affidavid and is willing to testify in a Court of Law that there isn’t anywhere in HI a long form Birth Certificate for BHO, and that all State of HI Administrators knew about it back in 2008 and told him to stop asking questions.
Why is Mr. Moran dismissing all this evidence, while willing to accept Fukino’s non-sworn and largely unsubstantiated statements (i.e., statements provided without any concrete evidence and documents or specific names of Hospital, physician etc)?
Simply because he wishes to have credibility among the leftists and the lame stream, propaganda spewing, state-run media (which they won’t grant him, anyway.)
People like Mr. Moran let the left dictate what is acceptable to discuss and how in this country. No wonder they call the GOP the ‘stupid’ Party. Republicans prove it day in, day out.
Edit to previous note: I meant it would have been easier for an Indonesian to visit Pakistan than an American. Indonesia has never been a problem for Americans to visit, but Pakistan has been.
In defense of Oscambos “birth certificate”, my Aunt Stella, a lifelong republican until the Weeping Bartenders’ latest sellout; now assured that the the GOP is complicit in the Demonrats communist/moslem takeover of the world,suggests that his relatives planted that false document.
But she argues that it was vital and necessary to plant the fake birth certificate because, she says, Obama was never born!
“What”, I gasped, “But how could that be?”
“Because”, she replied, stirring a large pot of cabbage, potato and onion soup, “Because he was not born; he was farted.”
You truly are a white tiger. Rock on, brother.
The birther label is a misnomer in my opinion. It is perfectly normal to expect that the presidents birth certificate be available for public review. The fact that Obama chooses to keep it private leads to speculation as to why he would do so. Does the birth certificate exist? People have claimed to have seen it, okay, then why not release it. Does his birth certificate reveal something embarrassing or previously undisclosed? With Obama’s thin paper trail and murky past, one might think that there is an attempt to cover-up something. Was he indeed not born in Hawaii? Remote perhaps but still there are some peculiar aspects to this story, that a birth certificate would clear up immediately.
No matter how many folks like Mr Moran come around thinking that they can tamp down the speculation by equating these questions with the mind of a lunatic, the questions will not go away, and there is nothing wrong with the people asking them. It’s the people who defend the veil of secrecy who are out of the mainstream. If we have learned nothing in the past three years about Obama, one thing is clear is that you cannot believe anything he says and that he is an artful deceiver. He hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt, not from me anyway.
and no this doesn’t keep me from focusing on the larger issues facing us at this time. No matter what we are stuck with Obama until the end of next year. But we should at least desire to set the record straight, and be 100% sure that we were not duped by one of the biggest scams in history.
The damage BHO’s eligibility is causing the Republic, this corrosion of its foundations, is far greater than the damage from the debt and deficit (according to the left, and the stupid GOP establishment – the Karl Rollovers of this world, these being the “respectable” issues to discuss, debate and preoccupy ourselves with – NOT).
Nitwits can’t see that, I suppose. On the other hand, they may have some monetary gain by playing this “let’s not talk about the birther thing” game. Certainly the FOX dimwits (O’Baxter, Beck-the-beer and the rest do).
i could care less about obamas birth origins
if he was born in the u.s. so what? his policies still suck
if he wasnt born in the u.s. so what? it would take years to legally bring up the issue amid the statist roadblocks and in the end his policies still suck
rush’s take on trump is spot on: the donald is providing the template to defeat obama—–> aggressive confrontation of his policies and if the wussified republican caretakers dont get with the program we could be reliving the ross perot days all over again
trump’s ideology may be all over the place but i do not doubt he is an “american” ; that is, he believes in a strong and economically powerful country that should never be played as suckers by the rest of the world
I agree with you about the birther issue. To me, it doesn’t matter; the people of the USA elected him President in a fair election and that’s enough for me.
I saw him yesterday at a Boca Raton, Florida tea party rally. He is an excellent speaker. The crowd loved him. I was impressed by how slickly written his speech was – it effectively bragged about how worldly, experienced and intelligent he was, but by showing, not telling. By the time the speech was done you realized he would be very powerful in any debate. He would be well prepared and have glib answers to every question.
Furthermore, he’s likable on a personal level. He cracked some jokes at his expense. He gave you the impression of a powerful, capable leader, and I’m sure he is one. He’s also a survivor, having crawled back from bankruptcies, divorces and done it with skill and style.
That being said, his policies seem very disturbing to me. I do not want to see a 25% tariff placed against Chinese imports. I’m not sure exactly what’s wrong with his “take their oil” strategy, but it feels like a horrible idea to me, perhaps because it would make Noam Chomsky look prescient, and that’s just plain horrible. And I think his “cut and run” strategy means Al Qaeda wins, and that’s far from a good thing.
I can understand how protectionism sounds like a great idea for someone who hasn’t gone through the 1970s and suffered through horrible quality American cars. American cars are decent today because competition has forced them to be. Do we really want to return to those bad old days where everything was expensive, and a lot of shoddy goods were being made as our only choice?
Now, he looks pretty good compared to Obama. And there is no question he can express his message to the American people. But it’s a bad message and I would anticipate a very bad future for us if it was carried out. Not so bad as Obama, yes, but still bad.
It’s hard to not like Donald Trump, and appreciate his many virtues. If he could straighten out his ideology, he’d make a great candidate. As it is, Sarah Palin looks like the best candidate to me. She is principled and, like Trump, doesn’t retreat from a fight.
D
Birth certificate, one citizen parent, phony ss#, voluntarily surendered his law license, and the list just goes on and on.
Is there such a thing as too much contempt for people who are taking obama’s side on this?
I think you’re wrong and too easily are jumping on — stomping on this “birther” issue — and The Donald.
I do agree that he is providing fodder for O’s base in some way — but his is attacking the O’s policies as well.
Aw, I like the fuss The Donald is kicking up. His blunt statements are bringing a certain kind of clarity — a sharpness — a kind of breath of fresh air — against the constant drone of “intellectualism” we are continually subjected to.
“… take the oil”!!! Outrageous! Only Donald could get away with saying that. No, of course, he doesn’t mean it. But it clarifies further that we have no business being in Libya at all. What the hell are we doing there?
I think it’s good for all of us, however his “run for president” turns out.
Personally, I don’t know and I don’t care if Obama was born in th U.S. or not. Prior to election, I believe — it was a legitimate issue to be dealt with — and he, because of his father’s non-U.S. nationality — and his father’s return to Kenya — and his mother’s spending most of her life abroad — and the fact that he was raised in Indonesia until he was 10 — he should have had to produce his birth certificate.
But that didn’t happen. Instead, the term “birthers” was born, and anyone who wanted proof was labeled a crazy. The MSM did a good job, and that demonization was accepted by those who have a need to “label” others without real cause. It may be good, it may not be — but it’s not crazy.
After election, I feel it ought to have been dropped. It was too late for any good to come of it no matter what was discovered.
Nevertheless …
I lived abroad for many years. There were a number of occasions when I witnessed an American mother or father married to a foreign national go through all kinds of hoops to make sure their children got U.S. citizenship and passports. It would not have been beyond most of them to do anything — anything at all — to accomplish that. Certainly, having grandparents place an ad in the newspapers would have been one easy avenue.
For a long, long time (and maybe still) there was a great advantage to having U.S. citizenship — and no American parent would have wanted to see their child deprived of that. No, no — not w-e-l-f-a-r-e. The land of liberty. The land of plenty. The land of opportunity, advantage — and of light.
How many Kenyans — or Indonesians — (then or now) wouldn’t do — a lot — to have a U.S. passport?
His grandparents placing a false ad in the newspapers? Would that be a great conspiracy? No. It would have been one thing to do. An easy thing to do for a better future for their grandchild.
Gov. Lingle? Does the Gov of every state know everything that’s done in her state?
I do think it’s possible a false CLB could easily have been arranged. Hawaii, in the 60′s? Easily. The only thing is — that by now — someone would have “leaked” — which indicates to me that it is unlikely.
Frankly, the whole thing is pretty stupid now — except that, for Trump, it’s not a bad angle. If O doesn’t produce the original certificate (and why doesn’t he? — that’s a better question) — Trump can keep poking that thorn in his side. That’s the nature of competition. It falls within the parameters of “fairness” (which the O loves so much.) I can’t stand Obama, so I don’t mind.
(So — to be “fair” — Obama himself was elected (twice, I believe) because of the “sudden” appearance of “divorce” documentation, personal and private information of his opponents.)
And — where the !#*! are O’s other documents? Where are his written University papers — and transcripts? Etc., etc.. Too much has been kept secret from his past.
His performance as president has shown that as a leader, he’s a destructive and dangerous man. All legal means should be used to root him out of our system — so we might have a chance to “begin to heal” — even if the oceans are not withdrawing.
obama presents a certification of live birth while others born at same place the same week get a certificate of live birth.
see the difference?
I’ll give you a clue, a certification is not the same as a certificate.
possibly if people would pay attention instead of trying to convince themselves they are morally and intellectually superior to others we might have gotten a SCOTUS ruling on the issue of NBC with only one underage parent being a citizen.
but no, its easier to vilify those who have a question about the constitutionality of the dual citizenship as it relates to a british subject and an underage mother.
and Trump is trojan horse, he will not be a conservative.
Trojan horse or loyal opposition?
with all the money he has donated to Dems, including Rahm Emanuel, and the times he has personally been protected by bankruptcy laws do you really trust him?
he is playing a game, right now its a useful game, but in no way should it be the finale.
IOW Loyal to the cause, opposition only in appearance. Or Faux opposition if you like.
I think that is a decent description, a faux in the henhouse
I don’t know where President Obama was born and it would be quite useful to know; currently, lots of people seem to believe — not at all the same as know — that he was born in various different places, some well outside the United States. Much of the belief that he was not born in the United States is quite reasonably based on suspicion caused by President Obama’s far from transparent approach to the problem. President Obama could with little difficulty release documents heretofore kept under wraps — passports, scholarship status in college and his long-form birth certificate to name a few. Maybe he hasn’t because they would reveal that he is not constitutionally qualified, or maybe he finds the distraction over these matters a useful decoy to keep lots of people focused away from what he is actually doing as President.
I am also well aware of the provision of Article II of the Constitution making only a “natural born citizen” of the United States eligible to become the President and of the certification of eligibility process which mocks it.
Having said that, it strikes me as counterproductive to elevate these important concerns over other concerns, even more important to the future of the country which, under President Obama, is rapidly going down the spiral drain. His vision of the United States Government as mommy and daddy to us all is patently inconsistent with mine and, I hope, with that of the majority of citizens.
Unless Mr. Trump proves facts not yet proved to the satisfaction of enough voters to defeat President Obama in 2012, the “birther” issue will be a major distraction from other — probably winning — issues. Mere speculation will likely repel more voters than it attracts. Aside from his present celebrity status based largely on seeming to side with the “birthers,” Mr. Trump appears, for now at least, to have little to offer as President. President Obama was given celebrity status by the media during the Democratic Party primaries and during the election, and it seems reasonable to hope that, this time, mere celebrity status will not be enough, for any candidate.
The nuts are people who accept little lenin’s self-created life history at face value. Like this Moran guy.
Let the imposter publish the record trail of who he is. Every relative who was close to him as a boy and young man is dead. Other people who know him say virtually nothing. He has sealed the audit trail of his life.
Yet people like Moran choose to call people who wonder why “nuts”.
Note in particular that Moran’s slander of tens of millions of Americans focuses on one tiny aspect of a 49 year life history: the birth certificate. And as everybody knows, the certificate with the details has not been published. I happen to believe that the imposter was born in Hawaii; but that’s the least of the mysteries of his life. Why has he fought so vigorously to hide all of the other documents that are the real story of his life, not the fairy tale he had Bill Ayers write-up for him and call his own.
Pro….folks need to settle down and get first in the right book of life and second, the right page of relevency. All that is relevent is that he is an admitted communist and socialist sympathizer by association of his parents as a young child and a communist and socialist philosophical activist from young adulthood in college and forward.
Again, when it comes to what is relevent about Obama’s life and career, there are NO secrets….and it was not a secret when over 50% of Americans voted him into office.
We’ve become a nation and people of such fickle and irrelevent thinkers!
this type of thinking is what has led us down this road, when a possible constitutionality issue does not matter.
there is no need to not fight on both fronts.
TT, while I agree that his marxist upbringing and belief system are most important, I believe that we have an obligation to understand who are leaders are. Their life experiences have a direct and material impact on their decision-making processes. In almost every case, throughout the country’s history, knowing who politicians are simply hasn’t been an issue. The boy king is an extreme outlier in this regard, by ANY measure.
Given that we know less about little lenin than about any other public figure in the country, my view is that we would be “nuts” not to demand that his audit trail be published.
Pro…..The ‘fact’ is that the laws of the land, long running, are not on the peoples side to view Obama’s long form birth certificate or even the certificate of live birth, if he wishes not to expose it to the people at-large, for whatever reason(s). Fact of the matter, I have never seen firsthand any presidents birth certificate…has anybody on here? Until more recently, in the cases of adoption, NOBODY could have accesses to a childs original birth certifice with or without the childs or adoptive parents consent. Now, it requires the adoptive child and or the adoptive parents consent for even a biological parent to access the original birth certificate.
However the federal government and particular agencies do have, under certain circstances, access to all data on anybody for specific cause, while still maintaining the tenets of law. Rest assurd, those few in the federal government granted such authority and process, have done so in this matter.
Why Obama has chosen to establish this matter as a political game and conspiracy hog slosh is beyond me other than to make a conceived point about the opposing party’s demographics.
As for me I’m staying focused on what he’s doing rather than who he may or may not be portrayed as in somebodys conspiracy theory. I’m satisfied with the governments silent position and following the laws on this matter. They have the real facts…not the people online and on this site who boldly speak so matter-of-factly while having NO personal and direct knowledge of anything. Just the flock being good little sheep and following some herdsmen who also have no direct personal knowledge of anything.
My understanding is that, at least, Eisenhower’s and McCain’s birth certificates were published, but it isn’t something I spend a lot of time pursueing, so I can’t confirm that. Besides, the marxist is probably the first candidate. other than McCain, for which there has been any question of birth, so your point is mostly irrelevant. His father was a British subject, for example.
But you continue to focus on the narrow issue of the birth certificate, and I have said clearly multiple times that the problem is that the man has gone out of his way to hide almost everything from his past, including the legal document itself. Yes, that’s a “fact”. Pretend that it doesn’t matter if you wish. Tens of millions of people think that it does matter and are highly suspicious of his story and ALL the details. Since you aren’t a fool, you are probably suspicious yourself.
The fact that he’s a compulsive liar is relevant to me.
I hope Rick Moran, et al, learns something from this well-deserved smackdown he’s earned for himself. Next time, study twice, write once.
I do wish columnists and TV hosts would do research before they start commenting. Commenting out of ignorance makes the readers/listeners lose respect and don’t know whether trust them about anything.
Go to World Net Daily. Scroll down till you find a summary of all the information on this issue. The “birth certificate” he posted in 2008 is not the long form, but a shorter Certificate of Live Birth, which can be easily forged, and has very little information on it. He will not release the official birth certificate or doesn’t have one in Hawaii.
Donald Trump has been systematically explaining this in nearly every interview. Haven’t you been listening? Do get your facts straight before you comment on something of which you know very little.
Go back to commenting on something of which you have some knowledge, but I won’t be reading it as you have lost my trust and respect.
You all are being played like a fine stringed instrument. It does not take too much imagination to get inside the OODA loop on this one. Barry and his handlers have the long form in hand. They know that it has enough info to at least bring Barry’s eligability into serious question.
This is a weapon that they have always intended to use. Just before the next general election they intend to have this document leaked to the press. The resultant uproar will throw the impending election into disarray. The left will claim the election cannot continue until the courts decide whether their candidate is eligable. The resultant chaos will breed rioting in the inner cities on a scale America has not seen before. The right wing will mobilize to “restore order”. There will be blood.
I sooo hope that I am wrong.
God Save the Republic!
Svin
“The left will claim the election cannot continue until the courts decide whether their candidate is eligable. The resultant chaos will breed rioting in the inner cities on a scale America has not seen before.”
So? What of it?
“The right wing will mobilize to “restore order”. There will be blood.”
Restoring order? I think you MEAN to say “Protect and Defend the Constitution”, do you not?
Again…what of it?
If they wish civil war or secession in order to protect a fraud, then let us have it.
I do not shirk from what must be done, sir, regrettable as it may be.
If the government fails in its’ sworn duty to uphold and protrect the Constitution, then that duty, legally, falls to the Militia.
Bilgeman.
You take my meaning exactly!
I stand with you 100%.
Svin
I wouldn’t be surprised…I’ve seen how the ‘big boys’ play.
“Barry and his handlers have the long form in hand.”
Doubt it for the following reason:
“Recall, over the past two years, we became familiar with the furor over the Democrat Party of Hawaii’s refusal to certify Obama’s constitutional eligibility. The DPH is the Democrat Party authority in Hawaii in charge of requesting, reviewing and verifying the legal qualifications of a candidate’s eligibility for inclusion on the Hawaiian ballot, in compliance with state and Constitutional election laws.
Ultimately, the DPH’s rejection of Obama was due to a refusal by Obama to make available the original documented evidence confirming his eligibility. However, this justifiable lack of certification by the DPH was followed by a covert attempt by the Democratic National Committee, chaired by Nancy Pelosi, to artificially proclaim Obama eligible in Hawaii by submitting two separate, sworn Official Certifications of Nomination (OCON) for Obama, each containing different legal language. Both versions of the OCON were sent to the Hawaiian Office of Elections while only one version was submitted to other states’ Election authorities. The DNC’s fraudulent OCON was an obvious, desperate attempt to control damage and prevent Obama from being disqualified from the Hawaiian ballot and prevent public awareness of the DPH’s refusal to certify Obama’s eligibility.”
http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2011/01/o-con-had-legal-help-from-non-partisan.html
Blanche
I will stipulate to the truth of what you have written, but these guys are playing a long term strategy. You dont play your best trump card on the first hand. Like the man sang, “Gotta know when to hold ‘em…”
I do not believe that the goal of this cabal is to build a new socialist Nirvana. I think that they mean to break the U.S. as a world power. This vine has deeper roots than many suspect.
Svin
Let’s never forget that the first “birther” was a prominent Pennsylvania Democrat who had been a state Deputy Attorney General.
true
the hilary fans started all of this in the first place
No worry; The Democrat/Socialist Party of the United States will march out somebody in a burka, that can’t speak english, but the tele-prompter translates their statements. They will not be male or female, but both; There will be no records of their origin, parents, or siblings. They will be missing one limb, and be considered legally blind. A transcript of their Harvard diploma will be posted on the internet.
This barely legal being, will be more Left than Chuck Schumer, and have more Democrat support than Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Schumer, Soros, or Plouffe. They will promise to give every black, hispanic, muslim, and asian, a house, car, free gas, federal job, retirement plan, food stamps, health care, and membership in any Country Club they desire. All for simply stating that they belong to one of these minority groups.
The White House will be renovated to resemble Mecca, and will have a recording of a mullah announcing calls to prayer three times a day over a loudspeaker that can be heard as far away as Detroit.
There will be enormous sums of money for their political campaign from The Nation of Islam, The DNC, Muammar al-Gaddafi, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jung Il, NPR, CPB, The View, Chris Matthews, Ellen Degeneres, and Rosie O’Donnell.
John Boehner will lead all Republicans in a nationally televised sob-fest,
Volunteer suicide bombers will detonate themselves in all monuments that house historic remnants of U.S. History, and the Constitution will be burned and replaced by a leather bound edition of the Quran.
Peliso will refuse to wear a burka saying her beauty is too precious to be covered from public view.
Should I copy this and paste it at The Politico?
Moran wrote this just to get a massive reader response. He knows better.
But he has produced so much “it just don’t make no sense” stuff lately that most readers are going to brush on by his offerings, assuming,(probably correctly), that they are without sense or value.
Moran, you are named after my favorite football coach, a man of integrity, wisdom, knowledge, commitment and effort.
Live up to it!
The real explanation for the cluelessness of this article is that Moran is a Republican party hack trying to kill off opposition so the Republicans can foist another pathetic candidate on us. PJ has already floated several other idiotic trial balloons like “Jeb Bush” (who was shot down in flames) and you can bet hard money that Moran will soon be pushing some similarly awful candidate on us. I shudder to think who it is.
Seriously, I think PJ has become not only a bastion of the Bush-loving neocons but a psyops arm of the Republican Party.
The real message in all this (including the stinking bad budget “deal”) is that the success of the Tea Party taught the Republicans **nothing** — they’re merely trying to protect their turf and kill off all opposition so they can have all the power and perks for themselves, just like the Dems.
The solution here is to fire everyone in the Republican Party who believes it’s all a game to line their pockets and who doesn’t give a damn about the future of the country. The way to do it is not a third party — for now — but to take all their campaign money from the Republicans so they can be put on a leash.
“The solution here is to fire everyone in the Republican Party who believes it’s all a game to line their pockets and who doesn’t give a damn about the future of the country. The way to do it is not a third party — for now — but to take all their campaign money from the Republicans so they can be put on a leash.”
Robb, you have summed up the best strategy in these lines. I couldn’t agree more.
TRUMP is the wolf at the door? Right. That’s the ticket. You elites are laughable.
I for one think that Obama probably is a US citizen, it’s just that he is ashamed or embarrassed about something in his past that he wants to keep hidden. I bet his school records show how close to failing he was in reality yet he was passed on through thanks to social progression. Or something like that. As for his actual legal birth certificate it probably has some other name or detail that he doesn’t want us to know.
Thing of it is, he shouldn’t get a say in the matter. Every presidential candidate gets, and I would argue should, a deep background check and major probing of every little detail of their past. Obama never got one. Here’s a guy who has two biographies that tell us diddly, yet we’re supposed to take them at face value?
Seriously, there are so many records BESIDES the birth cert that haven’t been released that are being obfuscated by the bloody bith cert and I think that’s what Obama wants.
In one way, the “Birther” controversy is all hot air. If we discovered that Obama is not a US citizen then we could do nothing about it. Why? Because if we tried our “bettors” would be in the streets in revolt. So, that matter is closed.
However, the “Birther” controversy should inspire the states to clarify their laws regarding the ballot for president. Such clarification might go to the federal courts. If so, good. But the Obama case clearly shows that we need clearer and more easily enforced rules for who gets on state ballots in presidential elections.
As for those who are sure that Obama is American, would you please explain why there are no doctors, nurses, administrators, family friends, other friends or anyone who can give first hand evidence about the birth? Obama is a total unknown. The man does not have one childhood friend who is known to the public, yet being such a friend would make the person a rich celebrity. We are talking 1000 degrees of separation.
At this point, I don’t care where Obama was born. I just want our country to be rid of him.
Rick Moran is saddened by the prospect of the birther racists tainting the GOP, instead I think they have only managed to reveal the true price of the Republican Party’s Southern Strategy.
The GOP benefited politically from the Dixiecrats who fled integration in the 60′s and this is the bill coming due.
Moran never fails to show his visceral hatred of genuine conservatives.
This is ALL a spitting in the wind contest by folks who have no understanding the the various laws and processes involved and if they do, they have a personal motive of intentionally creating a false political disturbance. The federal government has a particular process void of [open] court procedures to explore situations such as this. Rest assurd this process has been precisely followed and the matter put to rest by partisans and non partisan alike who have such granted authority and responsibility on behalf of the government and the security of the nation. Note that the people with the appropriate authority in the knowledge loop of the government have nothing to say on this matter, as well they should not.
Time for folks to move on and focus on the real problems facing the nation!
AlL that said, it is a silly ‘game’ the Obama camp is playing much of the GOP side with.
Thanks for your gratuitous ascertion that don’t worry the Government has ways of vetting people for us. But you forget we aren’t liberal sheeple, we are free born American citizens who like to know something for ourselves rather then be told something is valid by some an anonymous “T.T.Thomas” pseudonym. So, maybe you should take your reassuring line about why we shouldn’t worry about who has been put in place as our President to the liberals at Huffpo where you would find a more willing audience.
The rub dear writer, is simply that if Obamas on the level about the birth certificate, why has he gone to such great lengths; no to mention a bunch of monre to prevent it from surfacing. Soumds to me like a man with something to hide.
Trump loves “rattling the Birthers cages”, too funny.
The GOP is like the “Chicken Littles” always saying that the “Sky is Falling”, like the same ones that were the “Chicken Hawks” (“W” Wars), big talk no courage. The United States, favors creativity wherever it can be found. We’re apostles of prosperity and defenders of the free exchange of ideas and when more people in more countries are free to rise, to invent, to communicate, to dissent, it’s not the doom of United States leadership, its the triumph of the American way.
Generations have worked hard and sacrificed much for the country to reach this point (individuals and our unions!), and with further hard work and sacrifice (along with our relentless self-doubt) the United States will rise again, we do not tire and we are coming back, no matter what the “Chicken Littles” keep saying about our nation. Never Bet Against the United States!
Our current President travelled under a USA passport long before he was elected President, but I guess the quacky BIRTHERS, must believe that the USCIS – United States Passport was in on the lie, please, grow up, you are wrong! Remember when some contractors were busted during the “George W. Bush” administration for looking at our current President passport file (how quick you forget).
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/03/20/obamas_passport_files_hacked/
The Birthers just HATE and can’t debate!
Have any of the quacky BIRTHERS presented any credible proof that will standup in court? Answer: No
Have any of the quacky BIRTHERS won any Court Cases? Answer: No
They are just mainly backward, uneducated, white people who HATE our half black President.
The majority of the voting public ask “where the proof”, show some proof BIRTHERS or the voting majority will continue to see you as dumb, stupid or racist, maybe all three. Can you blame them?
Still, I really hope one of these retreads and blowhards runs for president, not because they have a chance of winning but because I like to see the train wreck that they will cause.
Faux News Candidates:
former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin ”The I graduated Early”,
former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-Ga. “The I Love The Interns”,
former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee “The Huckster Reverend”,
former Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa. “The I Love the Gays”,
former UN Ambassador John Bolton “The I Love The War ”
I Finance Myself:
real estate celebrity developer, Donald Trump, “I took my Casino into Bankruptcy, just imagine where I can Take the US”
former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney “The Flip-Flopping Fudger”,
former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush “The I Am Not My “Dumb Ass” Brother”,
Employed Long Shots:
Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn. “The History, I Don’t Need No Stink’n History”,
Mississippi Gov./ former tobacco lobbyist, Haley Barbour “The last White Hope”
Find Tents For Camping
Montana:
“The United States, favors creativity wherever it can be found. We’re apostles of prosperity and defenders of the free exchange of ideas and when more people in more countries are free to rise, to invent, to communicate, to dissent, it’s not the doom of United States leadership, its the triumph of the American way.”
Couldn’t agree more with this. I’m not even american but the same principles apply to every democratic nation.
Who spends $2 mil in court to keep anyone from seeing a document if there isn’t something very strange or very wrong with that document?
Do you think you could get away with this campaign of evasion and ridicule if a highway patrolman asked for your driver’s license?
Just show us the damned thing ‘Bama.
Thanks for a good morning laugh birthers. I would debunk your postings, but that would be like trying to teach a pig to sing. I support President Obama, but I do disagree with his policies frequently.
Thinking about what the alternative would have been, scares the hell out of me. A senile angry old man with a nasty temper and a pig with lipstick one heartbeat away from the presidency *shudder*.
Carry on with your brilliant discussions based on lies and misinformation.
so if you disagree with his policies frequently why do you support him?
Whosebone, don’t taunt the liberal with logic. It’s cruel to treat the handicapped this way.
Of course, his post was framed in the most classic lefty way. “I have no facts, but my opinion is beyond reproach. Trust me”
This is a typical liberal response. You can’t be bothered to give a sensible reply, so you simply rely on insults. Why? Because that’s all you have. You haven’t done your homework, and you are trying to cover the fact with your bad manners. I’ve seen this so many times. You people never, never learn, and you seemed determined to show us how foolish you are. Please keep up the good work.
So the only question left is: who’s a bigger phony? Donald Trump, or Rick Moran?
Obama and co. whining about his privacy…
“This is an outrageous breach of security and privacy, even from an Administration that has shown little regard for either over the last eight years. Our government’s duty is to protect the private information of the American people, not use it for political purposes. This is a serious matter that merits a complete investigation, and we demand to know who looked at Senator Obama’s passport file, for what purpose, and why it took so long for them to reveal this security breach,” said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton.”
This is exactly what I’m talking about. When it comes to THEIR privacy the political leaders demand that it be respected.
It’s a different story when Obama and his henchmen want to conduct far more egregious violations of privacy, like conducting warrantless body searches of little girls at airports. Then privacy is no longer an issue.
It ought to be the other way around.
I don’t know where Obama was born. Neither does anyone else here. We can’t make him the Un-President or undo the last two years.
I guarantee you this, however,…if the lapdog media spent one billionth the effort on all the bizarre “missing” information on Obama, as they spent on the George W. Bush Rather/Mapes forgery…we would have an array of interesting stories about Obama’s murky past.
Moran has attempted to seize the moral high ground…he does this by smearing anyone who doesn’t buy the Obama shrink-wrapped bio…and with his now almost patented sneering tone.
I am not a “birther” by definition. That is, I don’t take a position that Obama wasn’t born here, based on the evidence or lack of it presented so far. I simply don’t have enough evidence to prove or disprove a cemented position on the subject. So, I don’t take a cemented position on the subject. I don’t even take a provisional position on the subject.
But, I DO take a position that Obama has gotten away with providing LESS information than any other federal office holder from postal worker to President …and has been LESS vetted by the lapdog media than any Republican CANDIDATE IN THE LAST FORTY YEARS.
The shady way that Obama was non-vetted…gave birth to the energy behind the suspicions about his past. They have fueled this fire and the utter lack of effort to treat this issue fairly is a REAL one and not the sham that arrogant prigs like to make out..on BOTH sides of the political spectrum.
Here is my summary position. Anyone who says they KNOW Obama’s past…is a liar or a fool. We have been left to guess…and that is the damn shame of it all.
Correct on your position and correct on your assessment of the author, who seems to view himself as liberals typically view themselves.
How about a states rights point of view? Hawaii’s duly elected, or appointed, representatives said he was born there. Whatever document they see fit, if they certify with documents, is their business, not anyone elses. Maybe they record births on coconuts or totem poles. All that is needed to prove his US birth is the say so of Hawaiian officials. If they want to lie about it there isn’t much we can do. A forgery would be easy if that is their motivation.
A couple times I needed my birth certificate, once for marriage, I think. Darn if I know where it is now. I certainly don’t leave it in my desk drawer. I filed it somewhere. Those who challenge his US birth should bear the burden of proof.
No, I didn’t vote for Barack Obama. I will be happy to see him back in his native state come 2012.
You said: “Those who challenge his US birth should bear the burden of proof.”
You’ve got it all wrong, obviously you aren’t a lawyer. HE had to prove that he was eligible to be a Presidential nominne for his Party (he failed to do so), and further HE has to rpove that he’s eligible to hold the Office he holds.
WE don’t need to prove anything, HE has to prove everything he claims about his nativity story and his past life, and why he is hiding his records – when privacy doesn’t apply to the President of the US, the same way it applies to you and me.
He won’t do it, because he CAN’T do it. And those who’re responsible to ask him to do it (the Congress and the Courts) won’t do it for a variety of reason – all IRRELEVANT to us, the American people.
The bottom line: BHO isn’t the only guilty party here, the corrupt Non-representing Representatives are, along with the corrupt Courts.
“How about a states rights point of view? Hawaii’s duly elected, or appointed, representatives said he was born there. Whatever document they see fit, if they certify with documents, is their business, not anyone elses. ”
Points for original thinking, and compliments on not stooping to the gratuitous ad hominem attacks that so many of those defending Obama here seem to be addicted to.
This is a very interesting angle, because it raises the point that United States citizenship is solely at the discretion of the individual states.
IOW, if Deleware says you’re a Delawarean, then that means you are an American citizen.
The problem here is that the Feds, in the 14th Amendment specifically arrogated to itself the Power to decide who would be a US citizen, (and who would be a citizen of a State)…obviously, this was done to ensure that freed-slave Blacks were accorded citizenship by states that did not wish to do so, and also to prevent American Indians from being granted citizenship…one of Yankeedom’s dirty little secrets.
So it seems that we are on the horns of a dilemna.
On one hand, if the State is the prime authority on who is a US citizen or not, then you have just undone the 14th Amendment, and you would have to accept it when States begin denying citizenship, say, to the natural-born children of illegal aliens.
But on the other, if the authority to determine citizenship lies with the Feds, then you cannot hide behind the State’s (grass) skirt and claim that Honolulu’s word is sufficient for the other 49, (or 56 as Obama once said), sovereign states.
” If they want to lie about it there isn’t much we can do. A forgery would be easy if that is their motivation.”
Umm, actually, there is. If the governor or secretary of state of another state, decided to void the certification of the 2008 election results until Obama produce such proof as he may have, then THAT may compel the President to cough up the goods. I imagine that doing this ex post facto would be rather challenging, but I ken that Arizona’s recent law and that of 10 other states may be an attempt to do this prosctively.
It will be interesting to see how hard the Odministration fights these laws, and it will be even MORE intersting if Hawaii sends Arizona Obama’s Certification of Live Birth and Arizone then asks for the Certificate of Live Birth, and Hawaii declines, citing its privacy laws….that puts the ball right back in Obama’s court…will he release or won’t he?
Good angle of counter-argument, and I thank you for bringing it up.
“I don’t know where Obama was born.”
Me neither and I don’t care. He’s a worthless, socialist, America-hating incompetent, and he’d be that no matter where he was born.
Everybody’s spinning round and round on this …and don’t need to.
Look, the birth issue is but ONE issue of the MANY that Trump is being ruthlessly direct and outspoken about. Put in that context, I’d be disappointed if he wasn’t equally forthright about the birth issue as he is about any other.
Relax folks, and enjoy the Donald takin’ it to them on EVERY issue. And watch that space.
———————-
Footnote: one of the problems around the birth issue is that EVERYBODY (Left and Right) is scared of it being true – because if it is, then the whole nation would have to face up to the true horror of what it has done to itself.
this is true, the vetting process is pretty much non-existant. the DNC chair (Pelosi here) certifies the candidate meets requirements and that sit really.
the HI certification of eligibility did not match other states THIS time, there were key words missing.
if it comes to light that there was a constitutional issue the backlash could be debilitating.
Example, Donald probably already has a copy of little lenin’s college transcripts. He has said several times in a very clear way that his grades were awful. So far, nobody in the Make Believe Press has challenged that. I’m hoping they do soon.
So far, he hasn’t said anything about the SS number, but you can bet he has people looking into it.
But those are just two of a host of mysteries, lies and distortions about the boy king’s past. Someone with enough monthey can obtains rental records, utility records, SAT scores, credit card histories, insurance records, airline records, and on and on. Do you think the Donald might have associates poking around?
Once again Moran sets up a ‘given’ – at least in his mind of more “responsible adults in the party” etc etc. And this article is replete with these ‘givens’. These ‘responsible adults’ of which you speak are RINOs and are nearly as despised by most of us here as are irresponsilbe Democrats- and are as guilty as anyone in the Republican Party for their ‘go along to get along’ Laissez-Faire attitude as they come. They care more about their perceived power and position in the world than they do about the principles of responsible oversight of government – a role that is their greatest duties as representatives and senators.
They are IMO as responsible for the decline of this nation as any Democrat – they should know better – the Democrats do not.
Apparently Moran does not either.
Something for all you conspiracy theorists to consider…seriously!
Any idea why the lower States courts constitantly throw the ‘he’s a foreigner’ cases out? Courts from the most conservative to the most liberal across the land.
Any idea why the lower federal courts from the most liberal to most conservative will not entertain the conspiracy theory?
Any idea why the highest cout of the land will not entertain the conspirtists theory? A court that is largely conservative!
Theres a very simply reason!
Everything so many are slogging through has already been [legally/constitutionally] settled by a government process in which so many are, or chose to be ignorant of. I know of no other person beginning his run for the presidency who has published or had published so many facts surrounding their lives and for which so much was negative though many I supose would agrue as being subjective. Every timeframe of his life has been addressed such as his communist sympathizer parents and grandparents, Early childhood travels and schooling, abandonement, highschool, personal conflicts, undergraduate college and associations with radical activists and drugs and on and on. He’s truly never hidden his socialist indocrinations and activism and over 50% of american’s who I supose would get irrate if they were called ignorant of who was running and that they voted into the office of president.
Time to move on and stay focused on the real issues facing the nation.
…move on (dot org) and get out of our way.
“and over 50% of american’s who I supose would get irrate if they were called ignorant of who was running and that they voted into the office of president.”
Your assertion seems to be that all of the over 50% (a suspect figure IMO) of the electorate have actually heard of the allegations of association between Obama and Bill Ayers and his commie wife – or heard much about his 20 year stint in the Rev. Wright’s ‘church’ – or his voting record in the Illinois legislature (voting present=no guts IMO) – or that papers he’s (allegedly) written in college have been locked up (why?) – or any of a number of other fishy associations that have been glossed over by the MSM.
Nope – nothing to (hide) see here – eh?
The flaws and falsifications in this article are astounding and cannot be responded to in the limited amount of space allowed here. I suggest that Mr. Moran read my book, The Obama Timeline. (Part I is in paperback and Part II is at my web site.) Parts I and II combined exceed 3,000 pages and include more than 19,000 references. I have spent thousands of hours investigating the thug-in-chief, and he is nothing more than a flim-flam man. It is impossible to read the Timeline and not be convinced that Obama is a fraud.
Mr. Moran is either extraordinarily gullible, or has a vested interest in covering for Barry Soetoro.
I don’t know where President Obama was born and it would be quite useful to know; currently, lots of people seem to believe — not at all the same as know — that he was born in various different places, some well outside the United States. Much of the belief that he was not born in the United States is quite reasonably based on suspicion caused by President Obama’s far from transparent approach to the problem. President Obama could with little difficulty release documents heretofore kept under wraps — passports, scholarship status in college and his long-form birth certificate to name a few. Maybe he hasn’t because they would reveal that he is not constitutionally qualified, or maybe he finds the distraction over these matters a useful decoy to keep lots of people focused away from what he is actually doing as President.
I am also well aware of the provision of Article II of the Constitution making only a “natural born citizen” of the United States eligible to become the President and of the certification of eligibility process which mocks it.
Having said that, it strikes me as counterproductive to elevate these important concerns over other concerns, even more important to the future of the country which, under President Obama, is rapidly going down the spiral drain. His vision of the United States Government as mommy and daddy to us all is patently inconsistent with mine and, I hope, with that of the majority of citizens.
Unless Mr. Trump proves facts not yet proved to the satisfaction of enough voters to defeat President Obama in 2012, the “birther” issue will be a major distraction from other — probably winning — issues. Mere speculation will likely repel more voters than it attracts. Aside from his present celebrity status based largely on seeming to side with the “birthers,” Mr. Trump appears, for now at least, to have little to offer as President. President Obama was given celebrity status by the media during the Democratic Party primaries and during the election, and it seems reasonable to hope that, this time, mere celebrity status will not be enough, for any candidate.
I had to show my son’s birth certificate for him to be allowed to play Little Leage baseball.
That would be league. Not so good on the smarter than iPhone–yet.
That’s pretty much standard for little league. And I don’t recall when showing a birth certificate became a privacy issue as some maintain here. It is always a question of whether the bureaucratic process was followed, and given the number of corruption trials across the country, it’s not a great stretch to question the integrity of the process. We can’t do much more then see how things play out. Caught in the Hegelian dialectic.
The reason Obama is hiding his actual birth certificate is that he was born sexually ambiguous and needed minor corrective surgery. Good a reason as any.
You sayin no balls?
For all you legal experts who are suffering a memory lapse.
["In the United States, a person is considered to be born a citizen either due to place of birth within U.S. territorial jurisdiction (jus soli) or through descent from a U.S. citizen (jus sanguinis), or through some combination of those two elements."]
Maybe that bit of legalese will refreshen your memories on where to go to review all the other legal citations on the matter of the legal definitions of citizenship.
For those who are a bit slow still, refer to U. S. TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401…..Nationals and citizens of United States at birth. Aaawww, heck let me help you folks out a bit!
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.
Hmmmm!
Is this troll always so long winded? Do they pay them by the word now? God what a bore.
Is there some reason you avoided the words natural born citizen ? Are you contending that Article II, Section 1 of The Consitution has been repealed?
Does this help you?
Obama Presidential Eligibility – An Introductory Primer
Copyright (©) 2009-2011 Stephen Tonchen
Revision date: April 9, 2011
According to the Heritage Foundation, the notion that birthplace alone is sufficient to confer U.S. citizenship (in the Constitutional sense) is “historically and legally inaccurate”:
The popular concept of “birthright citizenship” — that anyone born while in the United States is automatically a U.S. citizen — is historically and legally inaccurate. Only a complete jurisdiction of the kind that brings with it an exclusive allegiance [at birth] is sufficient to qualify for the grant of citizenship [under the Constitution]. (Heritage Foundation: Immigration Reform)
Six years after the 14th Amendment became part of the U.S. Constitution, the U.S. Supreme Court — in Minor v. Happersett (1874) — commented that, if you were born in the United States and both of your parents were U.S. citizens at the time of your birth, you are, without doubt, a natural born citizen. In the same case, the Supreme Court also remarked that, if you were born in the United States but your parents were not both U.S. citizens when you were born, your natural born citizenship is in doubt [06].
Thanks Terry! I gave you the law as revised in 1994. If you do you legal research, it is the law passed by legislation rather than constitutional amendment, that closed all the loopholes in the constitutions citizen clause. The Obama birth conspiracy is a classic study of two clinically defined syndromes and a sad tale of how people today lack the ability to individually reason and when today so much is available on the internet to help them sort out the true facts over propaganda.
Where Obama was born is ‘legally’ irrelevent!
To make a valid case of illegal citizenship for Obama, one would have to claim [neither] of his parents were [legal] American citizens or alliens….and was born outside the United States and its possessions.
The government and the courts know not only the facts but…the law and that is why no court nor the government or knowledgeable lawyers and law firms attempt to move the court to take a case without legal merit and standing.
Again, folks need to get on to all the relevent problems facing the nation ….and the GOP and quit being Obama’s fools for diversions.
You may be right, and this may all be illusionist misdirection, then again you may be wrong since you have only hearsay (from the publics point of view) of self interested bureaucrats on your side. You make a leap of faith with your linkage theory. Lawyering ususally is more precise than that, and when it isn’t then the adversarial process does kick in. So call me names and say its irrelevant. Your making an assumption about something you don’t have first hand knowledge about either. It is likely very relevant or Berg wouldn’t have filed suit early on, and the fact that everyone just wants it to go away instead of facing it seems to me it represents a Pandora’s box for more than just Obama. The focus shouldn’t be just the birth certificate but all his cover stories. And not for our benefit, but for those that still believe he’s genuine.
Terry….sorry I failed to be more specific to your central theme of the constitutions language :
["No person except a natural born Citizen...."]
Language of U. S. TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401 is:
["....shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:"]
Do you see the last two words? Those words were intentionally used to be the ‘connectors’ to the consitutions ‘natural born citizen’ clause that you’re so concerned with.
Again, find me a single legitmate constitutional or legal scholar investing any time in this silly citizenship conspiracy.
Law is adversariable by design and there are those tyype who are uniformed or with some silly motive who will waste time arguing that air is visible to the human eye…..and sadly gain a following.
You said:
“Do you see the last two words? Those words were intentionally used to be the ‘connectors’ to the consitutions ‘natural born citizen’ clause that you’re so concerned with.”
Really? Who says? You? You obviously aren’t a lawyer or a Constitutional scholar, otherwise you wouldn’t make such a moronic statement.
Lawyer….. Oh really! Bring on all your legal scholarship bub, rather than your empty charges! Lets see how you fare against this old sod buster and cow puncher! What are you some injury, drunk driver and divorce lawyer?
Obama looks like his mother particularly in face shape. Just look for that in her old photos.
The Huffpo has an article whose (misguided) title is:
Arizona Birther Bill Is Unconstitutional, Legal Scholars Say
Dated: 04-15-2011
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/15/arizona-birthers-bill-is-unconstitutional_n_849871.html
——————————————————————————————————-
However …. (sorry “Legal Scholars”) …
From Wikipedia:
(Peace_and_Freedom_Party)
The PFP’s first national convention to nominate candidates for President and Vice President was held in Ann Arbor, Michigan on August 17-August 18, 1968. Eldridge Cleaver was nominated for President over Richard C. “Dick” Gregory by a margin of 161.5 to 54. Cleaver, a convicted felon and Black Panther spokesman, was technically not eligible to run since he was only 34 years old at the time. Due to the needs of the state parties to collect signatures, the party fielded several different vice presidential nominees, including Chicago activist Peggy Terry, activist Rodolfo “Corky” Gonzales, radical economist
Doug Dowd, and Judith Mage, who had been nominated at the national convention. Cleaver personally preferred Yippie leader Jerry Rubin. Gregory formed a competing Freedom and Peace party and ran separately. Two states (California and Utah) refused to list Cleaver on the ballot, although each state listed the Presidential Electors and candidates for Vice President (Terry in California and Gonzales in Utah).
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_and_Freedom_Party.
Conclusion:
States DO HAVE THE RIGHT AND POWER TO REMOVE OR DENY PLACEMENT ON BALLOTS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE STATES.
It’s interesting to see how all of Obama’s minions are scattering and fluttering around like chickens with their heads cut off, worried about the effect of Arizona’s law. Why? Is it that Obama really doesn’t have a long-form birth certificate? I guess not. Because why else would Obama’s followers even worry? Obama has a birth certificate. Right? Or, NOT.
If Obama does not qualify by refusing to send his long-form birth certificate to Arizona, then what does that say to the American public about who he really is, or isn’t? There are at least 13 states also considering a law in their states similar to Arizona’s law (that is supportive of and upholds the Constitution of the United States); perhaps there will be at least 7 or more passed. Obama perhaps thinks he can do without those states; and with what people will think is the reason he does not send in his birth certificate.
I recommended this site to anyone who is serious about understanding the issue of Obama’s eligibility to be POTUS.
http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm#ref15
There’s nothing nutty about being suspicious of someone who won’t release their full birth certificate. There’s clearly something on there he wants to hide.
First, it is not unreasonable for American citizens to want to see the birth certificate of anyone who wants to be President. So, how about if all of the fools who are just so sure of where Obama was born (But, like Obama’s family, can’t tell us which hospital he was born in) stop acting like seeing the birth certificate is just such a terrible imposition on Obama.
Second, Moran is off into fantasyland if he thinks it is somehow wrong to “go right at Obama” about his past associations. Americans prefer their Presidents to not have had close associations with domestic terrorists and ministers who codemn “whitey” at every opportunity, while finding fault in everything about America.
We are entitled to see the birth certificate. Obama works for us. The Constitution makes it a condition of Obama’s employment.
We are entitled to closely question him about his associations, especially when it comes to the one with Ayers, a terrorist. Obama has lied to us about that association, and the media helped him do it.
Sane Conservatives like me know Rick is right. As if there are no other points issues to challenge Obama. Rick has been working for our cause for a long time but instead of respecting that most of you bring up this half baked nonsense. I’m sure if this is the focus of the 2012 election we are going to loose. Rightfully so.
I guess then, you don’t mind Arnold Schwarzenegger running for President? Why have the rules, if nobody cares whether they are being followed? If you don’t even have to show your birth certificate, when you run for the friggin highest office in the country, why then even have birth certificates? And since it’s in the constitution and nobody seems to care about it, what about the rest of the constitution? Should we just ignore that as well?
It is a non issue. Of course, Obama enjoys us getting worked up over this nonsense. If I were him I would just do what he is doing, Nothing. He was born in Hawaii, that’s enough for me. Remember, he won the election so he is the legitimate president. Our focus should be winning the next election.
Getting a certain segment of the base worked up makes Rush a lot of money and is getting Trump some face time, but when people cannot separate such stuff from the kinds of things which win elections, said people do NOT win Presidential elections. It’s kind of a delayed gratification thing.
D-White, does the Pain of the Pick It breed cynicism? Cynicism directed exclusively to those on with a public profile the Right Side of the Pick It Fence But.
Such cookie cutterism, Pingie. One would think that the Tongue’s well rounded well grounded Tweed Existence would mitigate against crude characterizations.
It does appears that the D-White cranium has been sealed from any unclean contaminating thoughts. Why?
Was your mom Snow White? Are you one of the Seven?
And says, “How does it feel
To be such a freak ?”
This won’t be over until SCOTUS orders Obama to provide proof that he was born in Hawaii. He has some evidence, but no proof.
U. S. TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401 was legislated to ['specifically'] define the constitutions Article II Section I language of “natural born” citizen.
I posted it above for everybodys reading pleasure.
Pay close attention the the last two words of the laws caption:
["The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States
at birth."]
The last two words were intentionally used as ‘connectors’ to the constitutions words “natural born” citizen….thus, once more, U. S. TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401 was legislatated to specifically define natural born citizen.
Never sent a contract out before with a caption…not to mention no explicit reference in the body of the contract.
You’re in the wrong chapter! We did ‘contracts’ last semester.
LOL…I don’t know what day of the week it is.
How do You know Cuz Pookie is Black ?,, as You have “NO” Birth Certificate ,, for all We know ,, he could be a White Boy ,, that did a reverse Michael Jackson Ploy ,, to Look Black ,, only a true BC will Solve this Riddle ,, that all News Media in 2008 ,, PLouffed Up.
If it takes The Donald to stir up the Obama mess, so be it. The GOP should have created a large brouhaha before obama was elected. We know absolutely nothing about the man. We are told that he graduated from or attended such and such college but no one says, ‘”Yes, he was my roommate”. His only job of record before politics was community agitator.
Meanwhile, the man has been telling any nation providing a forum how terrible the US is and his wife stated she was never proud of the US….this from a couple whose Ivy League education was probably paid for by American grants.
Americans need to know who exactly their president is and we also need to be free of the political correctness that has corrupted our language. If Trump is willing and able to adopt the roll of scolder general, I am happy to support him and will vote for him.
The author is just another Obama water carrier. It is perfectly reasonable for citizens to demand a future president be an American citizen and to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.
OK after redading this articla I’m speachless. This article was about the biggest bunch of crap I think I have read in a long time.
Obama is a FRAUD. Social Security number he is using isn’t his, no BC, and the simplist 1, he is not a “Natural Born Citizen” even if he was born in the USA. PARENTS do people not see the “S” at the end of the word. the writer need to look at the writtings of the people that wrote our Constitution. You need to read the framers intent of natural born citizen INTENT DANG-IT!!!
One is a nut only if he or she is wrong. Although I wouldn’t vote for Trump, he is absolutely right.
Obama is not a natural born citizen, but Trump is no conservative. What either of them are planning is up for debate, but I don’t want to find out. Both should go away – and stay away.
Trump may run, but will it be ala Perot? Get the dem elected by splitting the repub vote? Trump is a tax and spend universal healthcare liberal who regularly used eminent domain to kick people out of their homes (Vera Coking ring a bell?) so he could build his empire.
Not my idea of a president… but no one the “repub” list does anything for me at this point.
I think the Democrats are fighting this from the political side because WHEN it comes out it will be a snowball effect throughout both the Democratic party and from the media side because they will lose validity and from the money side because the “powers that be” in the union and organized crime in Chicago will be implicated.
For the Republicans I think some know but did nothing out of fear of being called a racist, now they can say nothing because WHEN it is brought out AMERICA is going to look them straight in the face and ask why they did NOTHING. They will lose validity.
WHEN this happens it should be seen as a win win. We can get rid of both sides of the same evil coin, R’s and D’s. Then maybe we will get patriotic servants of the public in office instead of party pukes.
Run Donald RUN!!!
I’m not sure what is more miserable. The fear in the hearts of the “YOU OWE US” DNC or how quickly the GOP starts eating its own (also known as Ron Paul the remix) when they do not play by the GOP “WE OWN THE WORLD” playbook.
Recovering Rebloodlican and never been Democrip.