Top Muslim Declares All Christians ‘Infidels’
Editor’s Note: A previous version of this article mis-identified Ali Gomaa as the “grand mufti of Al Azhar.” Gomaa is the grand mufti of Egypt, the nation’s second highest religious position, and a member of Al Azhar’s Council for Islamic Research.
To what extent was Egypt’s Maspero massacre, wherein the military literally mowed down Christian Copts protesting the ongoing destruction of their churches, a product of anti-Christian sentiment?
A video of Sheikh Ali Gomaa (or Gom’a), the grand mufti of Egypt, which began circulating weeks before the massacre, helps elucidate. While holding that Muslims may coexist with Christians (who, as dhimmis, have rights), Gomaa categorized Christians as kuffar — “infidels” — a word that connotes “enemies,” “evil-doers,” and every bad thing to Muslim ears.
After quoting Quran 5:17, “Infidels are those who say God is the Christ, [Jesus] son of Mary,” he expounded by saying any association between a human and God (in Arabic, shirk) is the greatest sin: “Whoever thinks the Christ is God, or the Son of God, not symbolically — for we are all sons of God — but attributively, has rejected the faith which God requires for salvation,” thereby becoming an infidel.
Gomaa then offered a hypothetical dialogue between Christians and Muslims to illustrate further:
Christians: You have the wrong idea about us; we don’t worship the Christ.
Muslims: Okay, fine; we were under the wrong impression — but, by the way: “Infidels are those who say God is the Christ, son of Mary.”
Christians: But these are philosophical matters that we are unable to explain.
Muslims: Okay, fine; God is one—but, by the way: “Infidels are those who say God is the Christ, son of Mary.”
As a graduate of and long-time professor at Al Azhar university before being named grand mufti, Ali Gomaa represents mainstream Islam’s — not “radical Islam’s” or “Islamism’s” — position concerning the “other,” in this case, Christians. Regardless, many in the West hail him as a “moderate” — such as this U.S. News article titled “Finding the Voices of Moderate Islam“; Lawrence Wright describes him as “a highly promoted champion of moderate Islam”:
He is the kind of cleric the West longs for, because of his assurances that there is no conflict with democratic rule and no need for theocracy. Gomaa has also become an advocate for Muslim women, who he says should have equal standing with men.
How does one reconcile such sunny characterizations with reality? The fact is, whenever top Muslim authorities like Gomaa say something that can be made to conform to Western ideals, Westerners jump on it (while of course ignoring more “extreme” positions). It is the same with Gomaa’s alma mater, Al Azhar, the “chief center of Islamic and Arabic learning in the world.”
The Copts will have a hard time. They will have to make hard choices. So here is my proposal. They are slaves in Egypt, they will have to cross the Red Sea to Sinai. It will be a long trip in the dessert, probably like 40 years, but at the end they will be a free nation. They can occupy the Sinai and rule the land, the Red Sea is more a defensible border for a Copt state. But to be free as nation, they need to leave something behind. They need to leave anti-zionism stances behind, they need to be willing to establish friendly relationship with Israel. Two states shoulder by shoulder fighting the dark forces of Evil in the mid-East.
“Waters never part until the feet get wet”.
The Copts of Egypt have a long history of anti-Semitism, and they’ve been no less hostile to Israel than their Muslim neighbors.
Yes, that’s what they have to leave behind. I’m not optimistic about this tho. Not in the short term.
Yes indeed, lots of Copts exhibit anti-semitism. Then again, so do many millions of people of every race and religion,including the Jews themselves. So…what’s your point?
I think Raymond may be one of those Jews who screws you over while lamenting how badly his grandfather got screwed over.
It’s hard to get people to feel sorry for you when you’re screwing them over!
In America there is more anti catholic and anti Muslim speech and actions but most Jews (especially secular) don’t lament that..
And it doesn’t mean I don’t have love and sympathy for the blessed innocent Jews who have been victimized throughout history… Providing cover for the sins of modern Jews is not a proper memorial!
(Apple auto capitalizes Muslim but not catholic…it’s possible but I don’t think it’s because they’re enlightened enough to know that catholic is a synonym for universal.)
You’re wrong. Jews, and not Muslims or Catholics, are by far the leading target for religion-based hate crimes in the US. These are the 2009 statistics from the FBI website (found no stats for 2010 and it’s too early for 2011):
www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2009/victims.html
71.9% against Jews alone, 12.1% against Muslims and Catholics put together – that’s about 6 times more.
And while you’re complaining Jews are indifferent to anti-Muslim sentiments many in the right blame various Jewish organizations and leaders for banding over backwords to defend people who want to exterminate them. But even though there are far more attacks against Jews you won’t find more than a handful of Muslims and Catholics put together who speak out against it, maybe because Muslims are the greatest source of Jew-hatred in the world today. And we don’t screw anyone over. The fact you are screwed up might not be entirely your fault, but it certainly isn’t the fault of the Jews.
It depends if these are just some individuals who just happen to be antisemitic or it’s ingrained in the belief system and therefore is the common view. People who hate Jews and believe we are god killers, evil children of Satan and the root cause for every evil in the world, and/or must suffer until we convert to Christianity, aren’t likely to make peace with us. I don’t know what sre the Coptic beliefs reagarding Jews, but there are some Middle Eastern Christians who believe – or at least say so – that when Muslims kill Christians it’s really the fault of the Jews. I don’t know how common such beliefs are, but I can tell you that as a Jew and an Israeli I feel more comfortable reading Kurdish (majority Muslim) forums than Assyrian Christian forums. There’s also a minority of Christians who are very pro-Israel, but most of them are understandably scared to speak out. Generally speaking Copts fought in the Egyptian army against Israel and viewed Israel as an enemy, while Israeli Christian Arabs didn’t participate in defending Israel. And in Jerusalem under Ottoman rule Muslims abused Christians and both abused Jews who were regarded the lowest of the low. I think Israel is a bitter pill to swallow for both of them.
Yes, Israel doesn’t have the resources to take in as refugees or help Millions of unfriendly neighbors. Besides they have their own problems do deal with without being burdened with any more.
This is hradly practical, but not a bad fantasy. We also don’t know what’s gonna happen with the Christians, Druze and Alawites in Syria. A majority Christian state in the Sinai, a majority Christian state in Lebanon, a Druze region or statelet in Jabel al Druze and the Golan Heights (I’m willing to give the Golan to a Druze state), together with Israel, will form a much stronger bloc of resistance. Add to the mix South Sudan, the Kurds in Syria, Iraq and Iran, the Iraqi Christians, and several other communities I can think off and things can start looking a bit different. But this, of course, will remain in the realm of fantasy.
To quote the Bible…..”there is a way which seems right unto man, but in the end it leads to death”……Hence…..Islam.
“While holding that Muslims may coexist with Christians (who, as dhimmis, have rights), Gomaa categorized Christians as kuffar — “infidels” — a word that connotes “enemies,” “evil-doers,” and every bad thing to Muslim ears.”
Anybody who does NOT think that the Muslim Brotherhood is going to take over Egypt is delusional. You are probably going to have a theocracy that is just as nasty as the one in Iran. And if I were a Christian living in Egypt right now, I’d be making plans to move to Israel, probably the only safe haven for them in the entire Middle East. Even Lebanon, with its own large Christian population, isn’t safe anymore with Hezbollah taking over the country. I just hope Israel will be able to take all of these people in. Unless, of course, Europe wants to take them. After all, the Europeans and Obama supported the overthrow of Mubarak, a man who had no problems with the Christians and did not persecute them. Now the Europeans, as well as the United States, should take them, before they are all wiped out. Unless, of course, that’s what Obama and the Europeans wanted all along.
Sorry, we don’t want them.
These Middle-East Christians were never very friendly to Jews even years ago before Israel became independent.
People who make such authoritative statements without having a clue as to what’s happening on the ground are delusional. The MB has about as much chance of taking over Egypt as you do.
Wow. Talk about delusional.
And your ‘opinion’ is based on what, wishful thinking? A TV show? Tell me who burnt a church in Edfu, Salafis or MB and then tell me what a Salafi is. Do salafis like the MB, hate the MB, are they one and the same? Then tell me where Edfu is and its significance to the region in terms of fundamentalism. Then lay out a thousand more things. This tripe about Egypt being the next Iran has been flogged about for months and is as worthless now as it was in Feb.
Opinions based on no information whatsoever rises to the level of delusion. The Egyptian military has no intention of leaving power or letting the MB in. To whatever extent they do let the MB in it will be a brokered deal revolving around money not religion. The top membership of the MB is rich and they didn’t get that way pressing their foreheads against a floor. Egpyt already is an closed and consevative Muslim country; it is not revolting for more religion but more jobs.
This debate is pointless. We’ll just wait and see. The MB is likely to get at least 30-40% of the seats in parliament (perhaps more), and I give them a dacade max to take over completely. Now all we have to do is just sit and watch if Egypt becomes more Islamic or more democratic and liberal and then whoever of us who was wrong should come back here and say: ‘I was wrong, but I’ve learned my lesson. From now on I won’t speak so authoritatively on subjects I don’t know the first thing about”.
At the beginning of the Seventies, Iran was really pretty Westernized and secular-seeming, despite a certain religious malcontent in exile in France. By the beginning of the Eighties, though…
I’m not delusional, and I simply disagree.
Every change of government in Egypt since the arrival of the Muslims has been the result of military force.
From the first Muslim invasion up until Nasser it was the result of foreign military invasion.
From Nasser to Sadat to Mubarak it has been the result of, shockingly for Egypt, the domestic army deciding who would be in charge.
Barring foreign intervention, and as I said since this began, the overwhelming favorite to determine the next ruler of Egypt is the Egyptian Army.
It could be another member of their inner circle.
It could be some outside front man.
It could be the Muslim Brotherhood.
But I would expect said ruler to be selected by the Egyptian, not by popular vote, or by personal proclamation of the ruler.
You certainly have a point there, so the questions are to what degree did the MB succeed in infiltrating the army and what kind of deals will the army make with a strong MB to be able to share the power more or less peacefully.
Christ never claimed he was a son of god or a god — that phrase was put into the bible by some of his followers. Nag hammadi, One of the biggest archaelogical discoveries in the twentieth century proves this. Egypt and Iran have two different cultures — Iran was Zoroastrian before becoming muslim and the new year there is still a Zoroastrian one and not a muslim one. Most of the clergy did not support khomeini and the grand ayatollah shariatmadari did not even recognize him as a ayatollah and that is why he died under house arrest. The schism that existed and still exists in Iran’s clergy does not in egypt and you can not expect the two countries to behave in the same way.
That’s absurd. Why would the Apostles do that? So they could get themselves excommunicated from the Temple, arrested for Sedition by the Romans and executed? Knowing that Hell awaited them for witnessing falsely about God? The mass hypnosis hypothesis makes more sense than that!
And furthermore, it’s not just the New Testament that contradicts Mohammed! The Old Testament prophets made claims about a divine Son of God! Solomon said, “What is His Name, and what is His Son’s Name?” (Proverbs 30:4) David testified that God said to His Son, “You are my Son, this day I have begotten You,” (Psalm 2). Isaiah said that God would come to Earth (Isaiah 9:5 and chapter 50) and that He would die for the sins of the world (Isaiah 53). Micah said that the Messiah, King of Israel, was eternal, having no beginning (Micah 5:3). Daniel spoke of this same Son of God as appearing as a son of Adam and an everlasting King (Daniel 7:13-14). Do you imagine that the Jews inserted Christian doctrines into the Tanach? It would be one thing to say they inserted doctrines they believed in, but how do you imagine they inserted doctrines they DON’T believe in into their sacred texts?
Furthermore, why was there no dispute among the early Christians about such things as the Eucharist? The death, burial and resurrection of Christ, along with the belief that the Eucharist was literally His Flesh and Blood was universal among the early Church! Do you think we recited weekly something the Apostles made up, never mind the other witnesses? The Koran takes the untenable position that the Jews added to their Scriptures things they do not believe in, and that Christians were able to take these corruptions and use them to invent quotes from Jesus of Nazareth and testify falsely about God (and be willing to die rather than recant this false testimony), and that this falsehood was able to spread and overturn an entire empire while the Jews were exiled, and God didn’t correct this error for 600 years, and only then by using a heathen Arab! And you think we’re the infidels! No, Muslims are infidels, following a false prophet and contradicting what the Torah and the Prophets teach. The Koran is a false Gospel, and all who teach it fall under the curse of Galatians 1:8.
Jesus was a Essene and Essenes had issues with the other two jewish sects the pharises and the saduces. If the apostles agreed with christ 100% of the time, why did judas betray him? The Dead sea scrolls, according to G lankaster harding, archaeologist and head of the Jordanian meseum of antiquity proved that christianity didn’t start with Jesus but the Essenes had customs that predated jesus such as baptism — why isn’t this in the bible if the bible is 100% correct or are you saying that you are better qualified than a world renown archaeologist? Solomon,one of the king of jews did worship ashtoreh, the goddes of the meronites, another king of ancient Israel, manassah worshiped idols also which led to riots and a blood bath — so they had no fear of after life I guess? What about the Romans who adopted christianity, they were sure a corrupt bunch who bribed huns to get rid of goths, they changed the birth date of christ to Decmeber 25th which is really a pagan yule festival the logic being it would be easier for pagans to become christians if they could celebrate the same days and go to the same temples that they were used to. What about King James who was a pedophile and a madman — modern scholarship has found fallacies in the 17th century version which claims when the filistines retuned the ark of the covenant to the Israelis, the Ark killed 50,070 Israelis and the truth being only 70 Israelis were killed by the ark which has been corrected in the new bibles. But ofcourse you knew all this since you are the myth buster! I am not trying to defend this muslim cleric since I am not even a muslim, but ignorance leads to war and destruction and we can not defend corrupt individuals who had access to all types of ancient texts and claimed the earth was flat. Copernicus and Kepler who openly cofess that they got their ideas of a round earth and planets revolving around the sun from ancient egyptian texts and John maynard keynes who bought Sir Issac newton’s diaries in an auction claimed he got his ideas from ancient hebrew and egyptian texts so don’t tell me the Roman catholic church had integrity since the evidence proves otherwise.
Baptism most definitely is referenced in the Bible as predating Christianity. Jesus Himself was baptized by John the Baptist, and He wasn’t the first to be baptized, either. Neither was baptism unique to the Essenses. Baptiso is a Greek translation of the Hebrew word, mikvah, which means “immersion,” “wash,” or “one who immerses.” “Mikvah of Israel” is a divine title that the prophet Jerimiah used in reference to God.
With regard to Solomon and the apostate kings of Judah and Israel, indeed they did not fear God when they did those things. Solomon confessed his sins, and Ecclesiastes is his confession. King Manasseh likewise repented of his idolatry. Many of the evil kings, however, did not, and they were judged accordingly, because God is no respecter of persons.
For someone who says he is not a Muslim, you are quick to take a Muslim interpretation of Scripture, and you are quite ignorant of what Scripture actually says.
Jacob, Troy’s deduction is not a muslim one — any body can read 10 to 20 books written by any bible scholar and come with similar conclusions. You live in the twenty first century and this country is tolerant of all religions and races — Catholics have equal rights here as anybody else and the founding fathers who were hunted by them did not exclude their entry into this country. Plenty of Catholics immigrated to this country because they prefered this country over the repression in theirs. So stop it with your hatemongering, our system has worked for over two hundred years and we are not going to revert to any religious laws from the dark ages.
There are about 10 million Copts. That’s about 33% more than the existing Israeli population (7.5 million, of which 75% are Jews). This is an impossible challenge in every practical sense even if there was any brotherly love between Copts and Israelis, which there isn’t. This will also turn Israel into a Coptic majority state where the Jews will comprise only about third of the population, thereby annulling the only Jewish state in the world and placing the Jewish minority at the mercy and whim of the non-Jewish majority, turning Israel from a relatively safe haven for Jews into another place where Jewish existence is fragile, defenseless, dependant and unstable. Been there, done that, no thanks.
It’s really difficult to see a practical solution for the Christians in Egypt and in other places in the Middle East. They can try immigrating en mass to the West (to larger countries than Israel that can each absorb a few million people), but I’m not sure the West will take in that many refugees – after all they are Christian, so it doesn’t contribute as much to “diversity” as Muslim immigrants, and it might insult the Muslims who insist they’re the most tolerant culture in the world. Another option is to create a few Christian states where different Christian communities can rule themselves and have more of a chance of defending themselves, but that will insult the Muslims even more and nobody wants to insult the Muslims. A third option is to try and weather the storm, keeping their heads low and absorbing all the insults, persecution and casualties, hopefully emerging by the end of that era still as a distinct and viable community with the majority of its members alive. All 3 optins were tried by Jews and none provided a satisfying solution to our existential challenges, but Israel is certainly the best attempt, IMO. It still has a good chance to succeed whereas the other alternatives always lead to disaster. And even if our enemies will eventually succeed to eliminate us, we’d still live free, independent and proud for as long as it lasts. But I don’t think the Christians have the guts to take that route. I think those who can emmigrate will, both to the West and to places in the region that are still more tolerant. The rest will keep their heads down. And whoever can’t take it anymore will convert.
Too bad because there are various possible regional alliances, not only with other non-Muslims, but also with other non-Arabs who are desperate for independence, but as long as each stands alone each is easier to defeat. But either way it’s scary and the outcome can be success, but can also be a catastrophe.
This is hilarious. Moslems declare me an infidel. No kidding. To Moslems I an an infidel; to Jews, a goy; to Germans, an auslander; to homosexuals, a homophobe; to feminists, a sexist; to racists, a racist; to Communists, a Capitalist-Roader, a Kulak, a Social Fascist et. al. (Communists are very inventive when it comes to hate). All those words, insults every one, mean the same thing: “not a member of our tribe.” And each is true. I am not a member of their tribes. I don’t share in their vile ideology, strange customs, common desires, corrupt morality, hate-filled protests, oppressive institutions, mass-murdering polity.
I am an infidel. I am free.
I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content
Well said and profound as well. Morons project their own nonsense onto people who are a blank slate. I am a citizen of the world and not a template for other’s cultural blather and insecurities.
Well, “citizen of the world,” there’s this aggressive, imperialistic creed in motion that seeks to convert, subjugate, or kill you. It’s called Islam. I doubt it will take any interest in your “citizenship.”
Cartoon ostriches stick their heads in the ground when danger approaches. Americans stand and fight. Perhaps “citizens of the world” think they know of a middle ground. Maybe you think you can debate those who intend your enslavement on rational grounds. It hasn’t worked yet, but who knows? Maybe you haven’t done it hard enough!
Try learning how to parse English: I was agreeing that Islam projects their own provincial views onto the rest of the world but also as do others.
To one cultural subset I am a racist, in another an imperialist, in another anti-gay, in another pro-gay, etc. and it goes on and on. In fact, I am none of these things.
Gom’a is just a man. He interprets the Koran just as any scholar interprets any religious text.
The sick part of this business is that there are enough people who think his words have merit that they have made him Grand Mufti of Al Azhar, and they act upon everything he says, even the hateful and foolish things.
Instead of discussing the theological foundations of his beliefs (an argument that can’t go anywhere), why not discuss the social conditions that lead to the acceptance of such a monster with so little protest? We can not stop people from believing anything, even the ridiculous or hateful stuff. But we can encourage people to question their leaders.
It isn’t faith if you force it at the point of a sword.
> “We can not stop people from believing anything, even the ridiculous or hateful stuff. But we can encourage people to question their leaders.”
I can certainly help people to stop believing stupid things. It’s called education.
Let’s start Egyptian Muslims on a 12 Step Program. We can call it Milestones on the Path to Modernity — just to make the ikhwan froth.
Step 1. Admit in your heart that the Qur’an has a history like every other book in the world. It didn’t descend from heaven between two covers. The academic study of its manuscripts shows this to be true. To disagree is sheer and willful irrationality.
Step 2. Agree that, while Muslims believe that the Qur’an descended from heaven and contains the very speech of Allah, and that every single word and letter is from Allah, this is utterly and wholly false. It’s a book that Muslims turned into scripture, as happend in all other religions.
Step 3. Acknowledge: The Hadith are almost all fabrications. If there are some that are authentic, we’ve no way of knowing which they are.
Step 4. Come clean on the legal tradition, that it arose a couple hundred years after Muhammad died and represents the fantasies of Muslim (male) jurists, and as should should have no authority among modern Muslims.
And so on….
The first step in recovery is to recognize that you’ve got a problem.
And Egypt’s got a whole mess of problems….
Latest Pew poll shows:
82% favor the stoning of adulterers
84% support the execution of apostates
77% advocate the flogging or hand-amputation of thieves
Time to sober up!
Egypt already missed modernity.
If they’re not careful, they’re going to miss post-modernity, too.
“wherein the military literally mowed down Christian Copts”
Um, no. They did not “literally” mow down anyone, unless they used mowers. They figuratively mowed the Copts down. A small point, perhaps, but fuzzy language is the enemy of freedom…
Um, yes — they did literally “mow them down.” See for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1sbJehl-ms
Actually, the line between figurative and literal in that video blurs. Technically, it would require a lawn mower. But, the concept behind it was there. I say it’s close enough to give the author a pass on the use of the word “literally”.
I’d already seen that video. No mowers. Therefore, “mowed them down” is a metaphor. It’s an appropriate metaphor. But to use the metaphor and say that you mean the phrase literally suggests a certain fuzziness of thinking. Again, it’s a small point, except that fuzzy thinking can get to be a habit…
There’s nothing like mindless pedantry to derail a conversation.
maybe they used scythes or sickles.
So I’m an infidel? Really? Tell that to Richard Dawkins. According to him, I’m a stupid Christianist.
If I was a Copt, I’d do my best to get out of there. I see a massacre of monumental proportions coming.
Muslims hates Jews and Christians, Hindus, Buddhists . . . . they hate everyone, even other Muslims who do not agree with them. They want to slaughter everyone for Allah. Kill a Christian (or Jew) for Allah. Some might refer to them as nihilists.
Perhaps we should call Islam the religion of politically incorrect population control.
Ceterum censeo Islamem esse delendum. – paraphrase of Cato the Elder
Fuxum Pretensis.
It’s ironic that Palestinian academic Edward Said, himself of nominally Christian background, is best remembered for coining the term the “Other” to describe the Western Christian attitude towards Muslims. Said alleged that Europeans looked upon Muslims as the “Other” as a way to define them as second class citizens. When in fact, it is the Muslim term “kuffar” that is the original “Other”. In Muslim countries the Other/Kuffar is legally a second class citizen or dhimmi, with restrictions on his faith and way of life, and as in Egypt today, often persecuted. In Western countries, Muslims can hold full citizenship, practice their religion freely and where persecution of Muslims is overtly opposed by our laws.
This is not a surprise to anyone who has read the quran. Know thy enemy, every word is in there, it is NOT a religion of peace. Islam is a political philosophy of domination and oppression, that is why they call it the NATION of islam.
This is funny coming from an leader of a death cult for Allah the Moon God masquerading as a legitimate religion! Islam is no more a religion than I am. It is a barbarian cult of death, pure and simple, no matter what their human invented “holy” text says. They glorify death and worship the barbarian god of death. Look how small and hateful their mixture of politics and religion is. We, as civilized human beings, must de-legitimize Islam as a religion and name it for what it really is: a death cult. Islam should be disgarded to the ash heap of history because it produces nothing but dictators of the worse kind, misery, and poverty of spirit. Islam has the same moral standing as physical slavery because it represents the death of the human spirit.
I couldn’t agree with you more. Americans need to start a movement to reclassify Islam as a totalitarian political ideology, silimar to fascism. Definition of fascism: A political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Sounds alot like Islam to me.
Each of the major religions except Islam (once called Mohammedism) have esoteric and exoteric practitioners. It is the exoteric practitioners that give all religions a bad name, and promote the most vile and evil crimes humans can imagine to perpetrate on one another. Gomaa and the Pope are two examples of exoteric practitioners. They devote themselves to the letter of the law, to the dogma of the religion. We never hear from the estoteric practitioners, who devote themselves to coming to know God in this life, and who don’t get caught up in religious wars. Islam once had numerous esoteric practitioners called Sufis. The exoterics killed the Sufis off. Christians had them too, and also killed all they could identify. Those esoterics who survive in the major religions are quite unknown to the exoterics. A very big religious war lies not far off in the future between Christians and Muslims.
Tex Expatriate, Are you referring to the Cathars of Provence, in Southern France? A strange and interesting sect, but hardly Christian in their denial of the material world, and their dual godheads of good and evil. They suffered a sad fate, but undoubtedly live on in some gnostic religions of the present day.
The Roman catholic church made stuff up about any truth seeker they wanted to exterminate. They came up with all kinds of nonsense regarding cathars, templars, scientists who they branded as heretical. Cathars were really seeking the real teaching of christ.
What do you, a confessed Muslim, know about truth seekers or the real teaching of Christ? Infidels need to keep their mouths shut about debates over Christian doctrine. You don’t even know what Christians actually believe, so you couldn’t possibly know whether or not a certain doctrine was heretical.
Where does it say that I was a muslim? The bible isn’t some secret government document, it is public and the scholars and archaeologists who studied it and published fallacies didn’t stamp “top secret” on any of the pages. This is the united states of America, most of the founding fathers were freemasons who had issues with the catholic church — the law of the land is the constitution and we have freedom of speech and if you don’t like it move to Cuba, fidel is waiting for you with open arms and change your nick name to something else. You are no myth buster.
You deny that Jesus ever claimed to be God. Considering the context, I assumed that you were a Muslim, but you are an infidel regardless, and so it is absurd for us to have to justify our actions to you concerning discerning sound doctrine.
Hey Jacob, why don’t you use your real name instead of myth buster? What are you scared of? Real christians study multiple interpretations of the bible by different archaeologists and scholars and then make a final judgement on what is accurate and what is not. If you were inquisitive enough to do so you would have found out amongst other things that Essenes had connections to the priesthood in heliopolis and Christ spent many years studying mysticism in a egyptian temple and in fact he was the most accomplished student ever to come out of that temple and of course all this was excised out of the bible along with christ’s teachings about equality of man and woman infact ancient egypt had much more gender equality than Europe in the middle ages. You are cursing troy with the curse of the galatians — what curse should befall you for preaching this kind of nonsense from the dark ages? You remind me of that monk silas in the movie Da vinci code.
Hey Tex, your comments are about two beers short of a six-pack. Go to the sources, the Christian Bible and the Qur’an. Study what was actually said by the Christ as opposed to Mohammed. Yeah, sure, you can look at the esoterics all you want, but the fundamental differences are really easy to point out if you take the time to read them.
any chance we can make a trade? One of their Christians for one of our muslims. We have plenty of muslims that hate America and want to live under sharia, and they have plenty of Christians that yearn to be free.
One for one. Win win.
I think the Israeli’s just did that trade, but their math was 1027 palestinians for one Gilad Shalit. Only the Israeli’s can tell that was a fair trade (crazy in my book); but what we do know is that most of these people will go right back to their kuffar hating ways faster than you can say ‘infidel’.
That’s the best idea I’ve read so far.
I vote for ALL IN (is the term ALL IN correct?)
All of their Christians for ALL of our Muslims!!!
We in the West want so badly to find moderation where it does not exist we make excuses were none are deserved. We are willing to abandon our own freedoms because we have tragically come to believe they are not valuable.
If our belief in our Western values and culture continue to decline, we will have only ourselves to blame.
It may be appropriate for you to define your use of ‘We’. I’m sure that I am NOT a part of that collective as recognized in your use here.
I fully recognize the value of my ‘rights and privileges’ as a U.S. citizen. I also recognize the encroachment on those ‘rights and privileges’ by outside influence, as well as from a dysfunctional federal government.
Being roundly sick of these people and their absurd declarations of who and what is qualified to live and who isn’t…I can only think of the words of Samuel Clemens, over a century ago…
“When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I
know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane, not in all
things, but in religious matters. I cannot prove to him that he is
insane, because you never can prove anything to a lunatic — for that is
a part of his insanity and the evidence of it.”
~Mark Twain
For everyone suggesting they leave- it was theirs. Alexandria was a major seat of the Christian church. Egyptian children would play monks and demons, the way our children play cowboys and indians. Egypt was Christianized before the Roman Empire as a whole was Christianized. When people get excited about “oppressed females”= they mention Aspasia- a pagan done in by Christians. Her aristocratic friends were both pagan philosophers and Christians. The Moslem raiders and plunderers have to throw a Christian massacre every twenty years or so to keep on top of things. It’s about like a malarial fever-
Egypt is not a naturally Muslim country. It’s most esteemed and famous people are never Muslim. Boutros Boutros Ghali- head of the UN?? Coptic Christian.
It would be as if we treated America like the dregs at OWS ran the US, and as if we took them seriously. As if the bureaucracy who overtaxed and over-regulated, were the moral center of American life. As if some wild, violent cult- Black Panthers, anyone?- took over the government, and then stayed.
We still know the names of the people who resisted them 700 years ago. They show up on the History Channel, dying in forsaken Roman arenas, surrounded and massacred. The Byzantine world, which Egypt was a part of- had just fallen prostrate to a great plague. The place was nearly empty when the Muslims came out of the desert- pretty much like the Americas being emptied of Native Americans, when we set foot on land. The difference- in North America- we set out peace treaties. We’ll leave the spanish to their own wretched devices, and note that they were, formerly, muslim possessions, and had developed bad habits like pillage, rape, and slave-holding.
I don’t know of any good solution. My heart grieves for them. I hope that church relief organizations help them.
Aspasia done in by Christians? The only Aspasia I know of lived almost half a milenium before there were any Christians. Granted, the Greek Aspasia was pretty well trashed as a harlot etc. but that was pretty ecumenical; the Greeks, pagan Romans, and Christian Romans talked bad about her.
That said, this is just a piece of history few in the US know. The myth is that somehow we evil Crusaders were trying to take muslim lands away when in fact we were trying to restore lands that had long been Christian. Unfortunately, the Christians made it all too easy for the muslims to conquer the lands of the Eastern Roman Empire because of their propensity to persecute Jews and those deemed heretics. Many concluded that being a dhimmi under muslim rule was a better deal that life as a non-believer or heretic under the Christians.
In any event, Comrade Obama has pretty much restored all the lands conquered from the old Byzantine Empire to radical islam. It appears that the push may be on to restore the old Ottoman lands in the Balkans. As soon as they are able, the Iranians will nuke the Zionist entity and the US won’t lift a finger. Saudi Arabia will draw the appropriate conclusion and the Caliphate will be restored. They will then be poised to resume their European jihad, interupt at the gates of Vienna in the 1500s. We’re going to need a lot of Charles Martels and Polish Hussars. We can only hope that they turn on themselves with factional fighting long enough for The West to awaken and recognize the existential threat, but I fear at least the younger among us will live to see most of Europe under muslim control.
Yup, I’m an infidel and damned proud of it, I am also proud of the fact that these folks don’t like me.
What these folks do not realize is, most Christians are not dhimmi’s and will fight back.
“God is the Christ, son of Mary.”
Ali Goma’a is mistaken
For us, Catholics,We say “Jesus Christ son of God and Vergin Mary”
God is not Christ and vice versa
Caroline, the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God, but the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit, nor is the Son the Father or the Holy Spirit, nor is the Holy Spirit the Father or the Son.
Ordinary people don’t give a rat’s hind-end what’s in the Quran … that’s why Islam is successfully marching through our nation and has achieved influence in the WH and our national security apparatus and the WH. Ordinary people are working their hind-ends off just to sustain themselves while Islam continues to march right under our noses.
Our leaders are openly supporting the efforts of Islam – THAT’s what we NEED to know!!!! Why is Islam privvy to the WH ????? Why is Islam allowed to influence our national security apparatus?????? Why are we not allowed to discuss Islam openly in the media???? Why are we not allowed to name the enemy????? Why do we allow a supremacist (my god is greater than yours) Islam follower to be a congressman ????
We need to discuss Islam and its workings in America; not some dufus cleric called Gomaa … they’re two a penny. Islam is HERE and we need to stop it NOW !!!
This is the Hilary Clinton/Hussein Obama “arab spring”. All their followers in the Americanized education complex keep repeating how great it is. The deaths of Copts and christians mean nothing to the Obama elite.
Johann, They mean less than nothing to one of our commenters; check out DAN S #27. He positively revels in the Copts being massacred. I think he feels it well deserved because of their alleged anti-semitism. Let him explain his “schadenfreude”. It’s a sick world.
Matthew 7:16: “By their fruits you will know them.”
The fruits of Islam have been evident since its beginning. Humanity will have a better chance of finding the fountain of youth or the procedure for trisecting an angle than it will have finding a real “Moderate Muslim” cleric.
It is well past time to stop looking for a way to find an accommodation with Islam and to look instead for ways to oppose Islam and promote American and Western interests wherever possible.
The word of G-d made flesh in a human man called Jesus Christ. Christians pray to G-d the Father maker of Heaven, and earth in Christ’s name. Because, if G-d the Father sees us after death without seeing us through Jesus Christ, we are doomed to hell.
All religions on earth that state good works get you to a heaven are stating G-d did not love his creation, and died for it to keep it. That is pagan.
Islam is a death cult, worshiping the god(Allah) of the kaaba. History shows the god to be one of 360 false gods at the Kaaba, but Muhammad’s family worshiped the moon god Sin as the one all powerful god. Muhammad made all submit to this false moon god , or else off with your head. Muhammad was an evil mad who raped, and murdered.
Excuse me, but this is what Roman Catholics believe about Jesus:
“We believe in God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfilment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
Amen.”
AMEN!
God is indeed One God, per Deuteronomy 6:4. Satan is the Other One.
Regarding the many comments that Copts should leave Egypt, keep in mind most Copts reject this as a solution, seeing Egypt as theirs before being Muslims, who after all invaded Egypt centuries ago. Nor are their numbers insignificant (at least 8 million).
We are witnessing history – the extermination of Egyptian Christians and forced expulsion of those who the Muslims do not kill.
wah wah wah ….
I know it’s wrong, and bodes ill for the rest of us, but I’m enjoying the ride right now!!! Schadenfreude ……!!
DanS. You are truly a despicable human being. That’s the irony of this conservative site, where most share certain views and most want to see an end to the Obama nightmare. Yet a few, at least, are bigots. Politics makes strange bedfellows.
There are bigots in every camp, not just on conservative websites. I have no idea what this DanS is so happy about, but he must be a very sick individual. The disappearance of the last remnants of the ancient cultures of the Middle East, if it comes to pass, will be a horrible loss to humanity. I’d say we must prevent it, but I fear the West, the only power that can prevent it if the Muslims continue what they started, will not lift a finger. The Copts are weak, they have no oil, they rule no country, they have no army, they’re small in number, and they won’t blow up people in Western capitals, and standing by the Christians will get the West in trouble with the Muslims, so what motivation will they have to act? Morality? Humanity?
The author of this article, Raymond Ibrahim, is a widely published author on radical Islam. He is the intellectual heir of the rightly maligned 19th century Orientalists, who translated Islamic texts and wrote about Islam with limited regard for intellectual probity and whose main interest was to denigrate Islam. As one critic has said, Ibrahim’s work is “well-researched, factual in places but … ultimately misleading”.
In 5:17, does not say that Christians are “infidels” (kafiroun, kuffar, UN-believers); it says that their mistaken belief that Jesus is the Son of God makes them DIS-believers.
The Arab can be transcribed as:
Laqad kafara al-ladhīna qālū ‘inna Allāha huwa al-masīĥu abnu Maryama
There is difference between verb used here, “kafara” (to disbelieve), which can even be used for Muslims who err, and the nouns “kaffiroun” and “kuffar” (infidels, pagans, UN-believers)
Muslims who have translated the Qur’an into English are careful to preserve the distinction between an instance of DIS-belief (such as the Christian doctrine that Jesus is a hypostatic instantiation of the unitary and indivisible Godhead) and the general state being those who renounce absolutely Islam or deny the God of Abraham (kafiroun, kuffar unbelievers).
Here is how a number of well known translators render the verse in question:
“In disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah [Christ].…” (Khan)
“They have indeed disbelieved who say the GOD is the Christ….” (Pickthal)
“Those…have committed themselves to disbelief….” (Sarwar)
“They disbelive who say….” (Shakir)
“They indeed have disbelieved….” (Sherali)
“In blasphemy indeed are those who say….” (Yusufali)
Oh yeah, qalam, that changes everything — the Qur’an uses the verb form of “infidel,” not the noun. Big difference. Am sure all your fellow Muslims persecuting “infidels” — I mean, “those who commit infidelities,” will appreciate this sorry difference and in one dreamt of day, start behaving like civilized folk.
Acknowledge you follow a deluded beduin, move on, and for once, try to be honest to yourself.
To Pen-Buster:
In fact, there is an enormous difference in Arabic between the verb form of any word and the noun, adjective, adverb derivatives of the verb form. Generally, Arabic words all come from three-consonant roots. Various vowels and prefixes/suffixes are added to from the complete family of words. The derived words may have narrow meanings that greatly restrict the much broader meaning of the triliteral root.
The noun form of k-f-r is NEVER used in the Qur’an to refer to the People of the Book (Christians and Jews.)
Not every use of the root “k-f-r” means the rejection of faith. For example, when the Prophet (peace be upon him) warned some of his companions from becoming “kuffar” after his death, he did not mean that they would become infidels but rather that they would become ungrateful to Allah, for the blessing of unity, when they fight each other after his death.
Regarding whether to call non-Muslims “kuffar” or not, the answer is that we should call people the names that the Qur’an gave them when they are addressed directly by Allah or the Prophet. In that case, Christians are ALWAYS called “People of the Book”.
In the Qur’an, you will not find a single “O disbelievers” (“Ya Kuffar”, “Ya ayuhalathina kafaru”, or “Ya ayuhal-kafirun”) other than in the following two places:
1. [When cast into] Hellfire, we seek refuge in Allah. The Qur’an says what means:
*{[Then it will be said]: “O ye who disbelieve (Ya ayuhalathina kafaru)! Make no excuses for yourselves on that day.}* (At-Tahrim 66:7)
So, it is something that is said to them by Allah Almighty or by the angels, not by us.
2. In Surat Al-Kafirun (109), it says what means:
*{Say [O Muhammad]: “O ye that reject faith (al-Kafirun)! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship.”}*
But this surah is addressing Prophet Muhammad and therefore must be understood in its historical context. Allah is asking Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to address a group of leaders from Makkah who offered him the following deal: That they all —including Muhammad— worship God for one year and then they all worship the idols for the next year, and so on. That is why Allah asked him to address them in this term “rejecters of faith” and to refuse to accept this kind of deal.
Since the Qur’an declares that Christians and Jews do indeed worship the God of Abraham, this verse is not addressed to them.
First of all, the word “kafir” does not necessarily mean “infidel”. The word “kafir” (and variations of it) is mentioned in the Qur’an in five different senses:
1. Kufr al-tawheed: to reject the belief in the Oneness of God. The Qur’an says what means:
*{As to those who reject faith (kafaru), it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe }* (Al-Baqarah 2:6)
2. Kufr al-ni`mah: to lack gratefulness to God or to people. The Qur’an says what means:
*{Therefore remember Me, I will remember you, and be thankful to Me, and do not be ungrateful to Me (la takfurun)}* (Al-Baqarah 2:152)
*{[Pharaoh] said [to Moses]: … And you did [that] deed of yours which you did, and you are one of the ungrateful (kafireen)}* (Ash-Shu`araa’ 26:18-19)
3. Kufr at-tabarri: to disown/clear oneself from. The Qur’an says what means:
*{Indeed, there is for you a good example in Ibrahim and those with him when they said to their people: “Surely we are clear of you (kafarna bekom).”}* (Al-Mumtahanah 60:4)
4. Kufr al-juhud: to deny. The Qur’an says what means:
*{When there comes to them that which they [should] have recognized, they deny (kafaru) it.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:89)
5. Kufr at-taghtiyah: to hide/bury something, like planting a seed in the ground. The Qur’an says what means:
*{The likeness of vegetation after rain, whereof the growth is pleasing to the husbandmen/tillers (kuffar.}* (Al-Hadid 57:20)
For example, when the Prophet (peace be upon him) warned some of his companions from becoming “kuffar” after his death, he did not mean that they would become disbelievers but rather that they would become ungrateful to Allah, for the blessing of unity, when they fight each other after his death.
In the rest of the Qur’an, however, the two principles are followed:
1. To label certain sayings or actions to be sayings or actions of kufr (disbelief or rejection of faith), without labeling any specific group of people with that name and calling them with it. For example, the Qur’an says what means:
*{Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely God is the third [person] of the three. And there is no god but One God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve [reject]. Will they not then turn to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary is but a messenger; messengers before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman.}* (Al-Ma’idah 5:73-75)
2. To distinguish clearly between idol-worshippers, on one hand, and believers in God and a Scripture that went through a phase of corruption, on the other hand. Allah called the later group only by the name “People of the Book.” For example, the Qur’an says what means:
*{Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could turn you [people] back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. But, forgive and overlook, till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.}* (Al-Baqarah 2:109)
*{It is He Who got out the Unbelievers among the People of the Book from their homes at the first gathering [of the forces]. Little did ye think that they would get out: And they thought that their fortresses would defend them from Allah! But the [wrath of] Allah came to them from quarters from which they little expected [it], and cast terror into their hearts, so that they destroyed their dwellings by their own hands and the hands of the Believers, take warning, then, O ye with eyes [to see]!}* (Al-Hashr 59:2)
In today’s world, we should use the same term “People of the Book” with Christians and Jews, or call them Christians and Jews, if they wish to be called so, or simply call them “non-Muslims”.
As for dealing with non-Muslims, the general rule is mentioned in the verse that says what means:
*{Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of [your] religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness (birr) and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of [your] religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up [others] in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.}* (Al-Mumtahanah 60:8-9)
Finally, it is fair enough before labeling any person as a “rejecter of faith” to make sure that he/she is clearly aware of that faith and what it entails. In my view, most people in today’s world did not reject the message because simply they are not aware of what Islam is. This is largely due to the biased international media and to Muslims themselves falling short to present their religion properly to the world.
The Qur’an says that a Muslim man may marry a Christian or Jewish woman and that she is not required to abandon her religion. It is ridiculous that God would allow such relationships if Christians and Jews are absolute unbelievers (kafiroun). They are not. In spite of certain elements of unbelief or disbelief (kufr) in their teachings, they worship the God of Abraham as the only God of the universe.
The Quran is a false gospel, and Mohammed is a false prophet, may both be anathema. A Christian woman who marries a Muslim man is denying her faith, because she is making herself unequally yoked to an infidel. If she is taken as a slave, it is a mockery to call her a wife; she is a rape victim, not a wife, and the one who takes her shall answer for raping her and for slandering her by calling her his wife. If a Muslim woman converts to Christianity, she is permitted to remain married to her Islamic husband so long as he lives peacefully with her and does not interfere with her raising the children as Christians. The same is permitted to a man who converts to Christianity, though he is only permitted one wife, so if he is a polygamist, the rest of the marriages are annulled by his conversion.
Furthermore, it is a farce to say “disbeliever” is better than “unbeliever.” An unbeliever at least has some degree of ignorance to mitigate his guilt; a disbeliever is willfully rejecting Truth. Where are the corruptions, Qalam? Why do the Torah and the Prophets contain Christian doctrines that the Jews themselves do not believe in? The apologetic I wrote in response to Troy is equally valid as an argument against your absurd position.
Finally, Islam makes a mockery of marriage. Jesus said, “Whosoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” Got that? COMMITS ADULTERY! Your easy divorce and “temporary marriages” are adultery, and everyone who practices them will receive the due penalty for adultery. “What God has joined, let no man tear asunder!” Can a prophet of God teach people to commit adultery? Of course not! Neither is it an argument that the Torah permitted divorce, because Jesus was imposing a higher standard than the Torah, which as God and Lawgiver, He has every right.
Qalam, you are being disingenuous. You falsely claim there is a difference between the Arabic word for un-believer and the Arabic word for dis-believer. There is not. There is only one word – kafir, which is best translated as “infidel.”
My understanding is that ‘kafir’ is the singular and ‘kuffar’ the plural for anyone who doesn’t believe in the Muslim view of religion. It is considered an insulting term to a non-Muslim, the same as ‘f u’ in a conversation Muslim to non-Muslim or the N word. So the distinction between the verb and the noun could in fact be a wide one.
@Qalam
Mindless, apologetic pablum!
Infidel < Latin infidelis, meaning one who does not believe.
In pre-Islamic Arabic inscriptions and the earliest Christian and Jewish writings in Arabic,
many of which predate the earliest Muslim sources,
the root translates Greek "apistos" (one who does not believe,
often translated infidel) and similar terms, or
Syriac and Aramaic kfar, kufara, etc., where the term means reject, deny, be unfaithful, be an infidel, etc.
As in kafr, he was an infidel, or balahaik kafir-na, I renounce or reject your gods or
kafr b-saliba d-furqana, he denied or reject or did not believe in the Cross of our Savior
(The technical sense of the Arabic root comes, of course,
from the pre-Islamic semitic usage of Syro-Palestine.)
kafir pl kuffar literally means 'he who rejects' or 'he who denies'.
That's too many syllabes for a good translation. And it sounds stupid to translate it as Denier or Rejecter.
Thus, one often translates it as 'unbeliever', or especially in older English versions, as 'infidel'.
The context of said Qur'anic verse is really pretty simple.
You go to Hell is you are 'man yakfur bi-l-iman' or 'one who rejects/denies THE faith.'
That is to say, if you are a kafir or one of the kuffar, or a denier/rejector.
But again, as that sounds absolutely idiotic in English,
it's far better to translate it as unbeliever or infidel (infidelis).
There's no mystery here. The Sunni tradition is clear.
If you're a Christian, you're not a Muslim, but a kafir.
If you believe that Jesus is God, you're not a Muslim, but a kafir.
Same holds if you believe that Jesus was crucified, or that God is a Trinity,
or that when Jesus returns (at the time of the noon prayer, in Damascus)
he does not destroy with the sword all religions other than Islam
(after he kills the one-eyed Dajjal and rescues the Muslims in their final apocalyptic battle),
or that when he establishes his kingdom, he does not kill all the poor little piggies,
or that if you're a Jew, you're also a kafir as you believe that Ezra is the Son of God,
just like Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
On the other hand, If you're a "real" Qur'anic Christian, i.e., a Muslim,
you're good to go –
as, well…. you're a Muslim.
But again, If you are a flesh-and-blood, historical and not imaginary Christian,
you go to Hell –
because you commit shirk.
And shirk's really, really bad — because Allah hates those who commit it.
So Mr. Pen, why you trying to pretend there's something nice here?
It's just crazy talk. And really, really hateful.
##
Still confused? Consider how the term is used by modern Egyptians. One might hear, e.g., an Egyptian say to a local Copt, just before killing him, his family, and the Christian members of his village, and then burning down the local church, "You uppity Qibt kaaaaaafffffiiiiir! You listen to me when I'm talking, boy. I'm gonna learn you your place, see? And then I'm gonna go visit your kaaaaffffiiiirah wife and you're pretty little kaaaaffffiiiiirah daughter — you got me, boy?"
And as you'll know, the terms must be spewed forth, with froth and spittle landing on one's shari'ah-compliant, fist-length bin-baztic beard (i.e., fistula-beard).
##
As for "rightly maligned" — I'll not even try. Just for you to say that, shows you're a follower of the Dajjal … and just another pre-modern hateful bigot, who thinks that Islamic sources must be immune from historical-critical examination (unlike every other text in the world). After all, it's blasphemy, as you say, and a Zionist-Crusader-Neocon plot to subvert the glories of Islam and turn Muslim women into whores, and thus rightly, a capital crime. Takbir!!!
Right on, Doc! Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Qalam, your website needs some work. It’s looking a little 1990s.
Still, some great articles you got there.
I personally liked the one about how the hijab is liberating for head-baggers,
and the one about how jihad doesn’t exist, and that the real danger for western civilization is Quakers and such.
And wow! I’d not known that freedom of conscience is laid down by the Qur’an,
or that Jefferson stole the U.S. Constitution from the Qur’an.
Imagine that….
Nice piece, too, about how FCNA has decreed that Muslims are now permitted
to follow the U.S. Constitution — except, of course, where it disagrees with Islam.
Sorry, Abu Jihad, you got that backwards.
American Muslims are permitted to follow Islam –
except, of course, where it disagrees with the Constitution.
Do that, go to jail. It’s a subtle difference, I know.
Sedition is such a tricky concept.
Great links, too….
Some of the old-favorites:
* CAIR – Council on American-Islamic Relations
* Islamic Society of North America
* IslamiCity (that’s the yellow-fanged, wart-bedazzled, medieval-troll Qaradawi, no?)
And of course, the site of site,
the hope of the umma, the seed of the future khalifah,
the sword on the necks of the kuffar, the destroyer of worlds:
* The English Site of the Muslim Brotherhood
And they’re kicking it back old-school today, I see, with the Supreme Fuhrer Hasan al-Banna: “The belief is widespread among many Muslims that fighting the enemy is the lesser jihad, and that there is a greater jihad, the jihad of the spirit. Some of them try, by recourse to this, to divert people from the importance of fighting, preparing for combat, and resolving to undertake it and embark on God’s way…. slaying and being slain in the way of God”
Good to know….
##
Abu Jihad, you’ve got snakes in your brain.
Someday, maybe ten thousand years in the future if the species survives that long, historians will look back on this era and marvel at the strange religious beliefs (all of them) that people held so strongly and at all of the suffering and stunted lives that resulted. It will be the defining characteristic of this age of men – overshadowing any other accomplishments. We still may not have all the answers by then, but we will be able to acknowledge that we don’t and possibly that we can’t.
ok, we protestants are not one structure but multiple cells; then I put this as our creed, in the lyrics by Bob Hartman (Petra):
Creed
I believe in God the Father – maker of heaven and earth
And in Jesus Christ His only Son
I believe in the virgin birth
I believe in the Man of Sorrows bruised for iniquities
I believe in the Lamb who was crucified and hung between two thieves
I believe in the resurrection on the third and glorious day
And I believe in the empty tomb and the stone that the angel rolled away
He descended and set the captives free
And now He sits at God’s right hand and prepares a place for me
This is my creed – the witness I have heard
The faith that has endured
This truth is assured
Through the darkest ages past
Though persecuted, it will last
And I will hold steadfast to this creed
I believe He sent His Spirit to comfort and to reveal
To lead us into the truth and light, to baptize and to seal
I believe that He will come back the way He went away
And receive us all unto Himself, but no man knows the day
I believe He is the Judge of all men, small and great
The resurrected souls of men receive from Him their fate
Some to death and some to life, some to their reward
Some to sing eternal praise forever to our Lord
In the end, these moron muslims will all have to go. As long as we allow only one to live that one will somehow spawn more who will also think murder and terrorism are acceptable. We probably should begin ridding our country of this plague now.
Catholics, Crucifixes, and Muslims
Those darned papists are at it again!
It’s bad enough they established tens of thousands of Catholic elementary and high schools throughout America as alternatives to public school systems, a transparent affront to the quality of public education, but then they went and founded their own institutions of higher learning!
Now, their universities feel they have the right to display crucifixes and other fundamental symbols of Catholicism on their premises, thereby insulting, humiliating, and infuriating members of other faiths, particularly Muslims!
When will this madness end?
According to census.gov, there are over 4,000 colleges and universities in the United States in addition to 3,660 post-secondary vocational and technical institutions. Of that number, 244 are “Catholic.”
Regrettably, some of those 244 have become Catholic in name only, indeed only nominally-religious in any way. Among them is Georgetown University and the University of Notre Dame, both of which prestigious schools have “secularized” themselves in the interests of gaining acceptance as mainstream rather than being labelled “Catholic universities” which they seem to believe is a pejorative description.
In 2009, Georgetown invited avid abortion advocate President Barack Hussein Obama to speak at the school and accommodated his objections to the deeply-religious letters “IHS” (In Hoc Signo) by covering them during his speech. Georgetown observed the beginning of the holy season of Lent with “Sex Positive Week” featuring discussions on homosexuality and pornography with one hosted by a porn movie director.
For its secular part, Notre Dame abandoned the moral principles on which it was founded by proudly featuring the Abortionist in Chief as its 2009 commencement speaker despite widespread alumni and Catholic media condemnation. Notre Dame President Fr. John Jenkins won accolades from the liberal media even as he shamed the Irish and his religion.
(See “Apostate Universities,” http://tiny.cc/mxqsj.)
The one hundred twenty five year old Catholic University of America just outside Washington, D.C. hasn’t, as yet, totally succumbed to secularism and political correctness but that’s not due to a lack of effort by an infinitesimal if existent number of its student body, Muslims.
CU has seen a recent 100%+ spike in its Muslim population, from 41 in 2006 to 91 in 2011 out of a total of nearly 7,000 graduate and undergrad students. Life must be challenging for worshipers Of Allah and Muhammad in a Catholic institution . . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=5836.)
I have made an attempt to read the Quran. I must not be nuts enough though. I see why MoosLoons need a Mudder to read it to them, you’d have to be a certified loon to read it much less get any real meaning out of it, then you get to twist it anyway you want too. It has just enough to sucker in the West then stick a knife in them. All things the Lefty Loons love to do, all in the name of Social Justice. Bright spot is that the MoosLoons love to kill each other, we should encourage that not disuade them.
Gomaa’s dialogue isn’t hypothetical, it’s delusional. Jesus Christ is Lord, He is God Incarnate, and we are proud to profess this Truth and worship Him.
Revolting Muslims
Islam, “The Religion of Peace,” has a peculiar approach to demonstrating the applicability of that description–unless firebombing a French newspaper, raping Norwegian women, and threatening and stabbing British MP’s are now condoned by the “Holy Prophet.”
Muslims have been revolting, in every sense of the word, for decades and not only during the Arab Spring. They are wreaking havoc throughout the Western world as well and the greatest irony in those upheavals is that the havoc is occurring in nations which welcomed them with open arms and open borders.
So much for misguided cultural diversity, so much for destructive multiculturalism, so much for fantasies of assimilation.
In France, Islamic terrorists showed their contempt for free speech by firebombing the offices of the leftist satirical publication Charlie Hebdo, (Charlie Weekly), in reaction to the weekly’s announced special edition to be titled, Sharia Hebdo “guest-edited” by none other than Muhammad, the “Holy Prophet” himself.
The editors had planned to satirize the first and probably last democratic Tunisian elections; Islamic sharia law was destined to become the dominant force in Tunisia and sharia has as much regard for democracy as it does for women. As for the proposed guest-editor, Muhammad had a great regard for war, mayhem, and his 8 year old child bride Aisha but “democracy” was a somewhat foreign concept to him.
It may have been an audacious idea for Charlie Hebdo and proved to be perilous as well when their office was hit with a Molotov cocktail and its website was hacked with a message criticizing irreverance toward “Islam’s almighty Prophet.”
Incidentally, one of America’s Leftist rags, Time magazine, chimed in on the fire bombing by attacking not the fire-bombers but Charlie Hebdo for “Islamophobic antics [which are] futile and childish.”
There may great sense of futility in Norway over its open invite to Muslims to come on over, become one of them, become a Norwegian, join their Nordic culture, and scrap their historic tendency for violence and the Qu’ran’s repugnance for and discrimination against the female gender.
The social experiment by ultra-liberal Norway isn’t working very well and the women of Oslo can attest to the fact that Muslim immigrants in Norway are far from childish. Brutal, violent, Muslim-ish, yes, childish, no.
A virtual rape-epidemic is in process in Oslo, already doubling 2010 incidents.
One member of the Norwegian Parliament, Oktay Dahl of the Conservative Party, risked a firebomb tossed by one of Norway’s new Muslim residents . . . (Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=5902.)
I looked at the video that purported to say Sheik Ali Gomaa said that Christians are infidels and it was not even him on the video. Is there another video link with him speaking? If not then you must make it clear that it was another cleric speaking. Ali Gomaa is an excellent speaker and fair and just. I am saying this as an atheist living in Egypt. I am also concerned at this time that he is being vilified for visiting Israel and may soon be pushed out of his position only to be replace by someone not as liberal and fair. Please address this asap.