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	<title>Comments on: Time to Get Out</title>
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		<title>By: J.J.</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7842</link>
		<dc:creator>J.J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7842</guid>
		<description>Lots of Dutch in the mountains of north-east Bohemia too, buying up properties and fixing them up.  Apparently, Dutch pensions and other social benefits enable the Dutch help offset the risk of moving to a new country, where life is cheaper.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of Dutch in the mountains of north-east Bohemia too, buying up properties and fixing them up.  Apparently, Dutch pensions and other social benefits enable the Dutch help offset the risk of moving to a new country, where life is cheaper.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim M</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7841</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7841</guid>
		<description>From a friend who is an American Expat living with her husband in a suburb of Amsterdam:

Thanks for the article.   Actually, I saw a television news report on the same subject about a year ago (the article must have been based on the tv program or vice versa - as a lot of it was word-for-word the same).    Holland is funny in some regards.    There are more foreigners than native Dutch in Amsterdam, for example.   And yes, there are large segments of the native population that blame the problems of the country on the &#039;immigrants&#039;.   But, in the past I have reminded friends and coworkers that I, too, am an immigrant.   The answer is usually the same:   &quot;We don&#039;t mean YOU.  You work for a living and contribute to society.&quot;   Show me a place where this same discussion doesn&#039;t take place these days.   The Cubans in Miami; the Haitians in Belle Glade.   Every EU country is flooded with construction workers and prostitutes from Eastern Europe.  Even poor African countries get refugees from war-torn neighbors these days.

There are 3 points the article fails to mention that it should.   First, the Dutch have always had a certain amount of wanderlust.   For the college enrolled or educated, especially between the ages of 20-35, there is a certain prestige in working outside the borders, especially overseas.   Ex-pat jobs are almost the brass ring of the corporate world, but in recent years, they have become more and more difficult to find.   Companies are no longer willing to foot the entire bill to give employees the privilege of working in another country.   However, they will make jobs available, just without paying more than a normal wage for the job.    Now, if you move to another country to work, normally you have to register with the government of the foreign country and TADA! you can be classified as an immigrant.   Are you really, though?   If it&#039;s only the intention to work for a few years and then go back home, you haven&#039;t really settled, have you?

The second point is just the sheer irony of the damn thing.   Dutch are leaving Holland because they are fed up with too many immigrants.   So what do they do?  Go to another country and become the same problem that was their reason for leaving the Netherlands the first place.   Guess it&#039;s okay when it&#039;s someone else&#039;s problem, huh?

The third point that should have been mentioned is the rising anti-immigrant sentiment throughout many EU countries.   There is a rise in conservative parties and more and more nationalistic ones are getting elected every year.   Even countries like Belgium and Denmark (Denmark???) have ultra conservatives gaining popularity.   About 5 years ago, a Dutch politician named Pim Fortuyn rose very quickly in power.   He was openly gay, very charismatic and one of his most famous quotes was &quot;Holland is full&quot; -- meaning no more immigrants.   Of course, he was gunned down in a parking lot, by an environmentalist of all things, but dead is dead.   His party was elected, but fell apart without him there to lead.    Yet, with all this anti-immigrant sentiment, people are still relocating in record numbers.   A little paradox there, huh.    Guess it all comes down to the old song:   &quot;The English hate the French, the Germans hate the Dutch, and I don&#039;t like anybody very much...&quot;

BTW - the lead story on msnbc.com today:    &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17954186/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17954186/&lt;/a&gt;
Guess all that stuff about global problems is pretty much right on the money.

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a friend who is an American Expat living with her husband in a suburb of Amsterdam:</p>
<p>Thanks for the article.   Actually, I saw a television news report on the same subject about a year ago (the article must have been based on the tv program or vice versa &#8211; as a lot of it was word-for-word the same).    Holland is funny in some regards.    There are more foreigners than native Dutch in Amsterdam, for example.   And yes, there are large segments of the native population that blame the problems of the country on the &#8216;immigrants&#8217;.   But, in the past I have reminded friends and coworkers that I, too, am an immigrant.   The answer is usually the same:   &#8220;We don&#8217;t mean YOU.  You work for a living and contribute to society.&#8221;   Show me a place where this same discussion doesn&#8217;t take place these days.   The Cubans in Miami; the Haitians in Belle Glade.   Every EU country is flooded with construction workers and prostitutes from Eastern Europe.  Even poor African countries get refugees from war-torn neighbors these days.</p>
<p>There are 3 points the article fails to mention that it should.   First, the Dutch have always had a certain amount of wanderlust.   For the college enrolled or educated, especially between the ages of 20-35, there is a certain prestige in working outside the borders, especially overseas.   Ex-pat jobs are almost the brass ring of the corporate world, but in recent years, they have become more and more difficult to find.   Companies are no longer willing to foot the entire bill to give employees the privilege of working in another country.   However, they will make jobs available, just without paying more than a normal wage for the job.    Now, if you move to another country to work, normally you have to register with the government of the foreign country and TADA! you can be classified as an immigrant.   Are you really, though?   If it&#8217;s only the intention to work for a few years and then go back home, you haven&#8217;t really settled, have you?</p>
<p>The second point is just the sheer irony of the damn thing.   Dutch are leaving Holland because they are fed up with too many immigrants.   So what do they do?  Go to another country and become the same problem that was their reason for leaving the Netherlands the first place.   Guess it&#8217;s okay when it&#8217;s someone else&#8217;s problem, huh?</p>
<p>The third point that should have been mentioned is the rising anti-immigrant sentiment throughout many EU countries.   There is a rise in conservative parties and more and more nationalistic ones are getting elected every year.   Even countries like Belgium and Denmark (Denmark???) have ultra conservatives gaining popularity.   About 5 years ago, a Dutch politician named Pim Fortuyn rose very quickly in power.   He was openly gay, very charismatic and one of his most famous quotes was &#8220;Holland is full&#8221; &#8212; meaning no more immigrants.   Of course, he was gunned down in a parking lot, by an environmentalist of all things, but dead is dead.   His party was elected, but fell apart without him there to lead.    Yet, with all this anti-immigrant sentiment, people are still relocating in record numbers.   A little paradox there, huh.    Guess it all comes down to the old song:   &#8220;The English hate the French, the Germans hate the Dutch, and I don&#8217;t like anybody very much&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>BTW &#8211; the lead story on msnbc.com today:    <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17954186/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17954186/</a><br />
Guess all that stuff about global problems is pretty much right on the money.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian H</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7840</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7840</guid>
		<description>Extreme individualism and super-nanny state; quite a combo!

BTW,a grammar syntax hint: in &quot;they have long stopped to identify themselves with a community&quot;, use the gerund, not the infinitive, thus: &quot;they have long stopped identifying themselves with a community&quot;.  The infinitive form means &quot;stopped in order to ...&quot;.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Extreme individualism and super-nanny state; quite a combo!</p>
<p>BTW,a grammar syntax hint: in &#8220;they have long stopped to identify themselves with a community&#8221;, use the gerund, not the infinitive, thus: &#8220;they have long stopped identifying themselves with a community&#8221;.  The infinitive form means &#8220;stopped in order to &#8230;&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Victoria</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7839</link>
		<dc:creator>Victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 07:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7839</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;&quot;Who would want to go live in a country filled with Muslims?&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

For goodness&#039; sake...so that no one gets the impression this comment went unchallenged by a Pajamas Media reader, let me pipe up and say, &quot;there&#039;s nothing wrong with a country   with Muslims&quot;.

I live in the United States now, a country which is chock-full of Muslims.

The problem is that when you have a national identity that centres around a melting pot idea, and freedom of religion, it is completely different from an unintegrated population, who somehow uses their religion as a battering ram over that culture.

That is what is to be avoided, be they Muslim, Catholic, or whatever.

Cheers,
Victoria
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;Who would want to go live in a country filled with Muslims?&#8221;</em></p>
<p>For goodness&#8217; sake&#8230;so that no one gets the impression this comment went unchallenged by a Pajamas Media reader, let me pipe up and say, &#8220;there&#8217;s nothing wrong with a country   with Muslims&#8221;.</p>
<p>I live in the United States now, a country which is chock-full of Muslims.</p>
<p>The problem is that when you have a national identity that centres around a melting pot idea, and freedom of religion, it is completely different from an unintegrated population, who somehow uses their religion as a battering ram over that culture.</p>
<p>That is what is to be avoided, be they Muslim, Catholic, or whatever.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Victoria</p>
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		<title>By: pch1013</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7838</link>
		<dc:creator>pch1013</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7838</guid>
		<description>&quot;Who would want to go live in a country filled with Muslims?&quot;

Halliburton executives.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Who would want to go live in a country filled with Muslims?&#8221;</p>
<p>Halliburton executives.</p>
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		<title>By: gcblues costa rica</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7837</link>
		<dc:creator>gcblues costa rica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 22:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7837</guid>
		<description>as an american expat i see expats from europe canada and the usa everyday. a large percentage are like me on the run business people, self employed types, job creators etc that are simply fed up with high taxes and stupid regulations. we do not need you, but the countrys we left sure needed us ....too bad ..... think again about 1/2 the people supporting the other half, it is stupid inorganic, and unsustainable ....... i think soon all that will be left are the unemployed and public employees .... the usless dependant whining losers that think we need to pay their freight.  one small prob .... we do not have to, we can make it anywhere....ciao ciao ciao
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as an american expat i see expats from europe canada and the usa everyday. a large percentage are like me on the run business people, self employed types, job creators etc that are simply fed up with high taxes and stupid regulations. we do not need you, but the countrys we left sure needed us &#8230;.too bad &#8230;.. think again about 1/2 the people supporting the other half, it is stupid inorganic, and unsustainable &#8230;&#8230;. i think soon all that will be left are the unemployed and public employees &#8230;. the usless dependant whining losers that think we need to pay their freight.  one small prob &#8230;. we do not have to, we can make it anywhere&#8230;.ciao ciao ciao</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7836</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7836</guid>
		<description>I left Holland 2 years ago headed for Ireland.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I left Holland 2 years ago headed for Ireland.</p>
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		<title>By: vogz</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7835</link>
		<dc:creator>vogz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7835</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to go out on a limb and predict this issue shows up in a Mark Steyn column soon.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to go out on a limb and predict this issue shows up in a Mark Steyn column soon.</p>
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		<title>By: planck's constant</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7834</link>
		<dc:creator>planck's constant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 04:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7834</guid>
		<description>I linked to your post from my article &lt;a href=&quot;http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2007/04/its_the_demographics.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;It&#039;s the demographics, stupid - the Flight from Islam&lt;/a&gt;, Excerpt: I expect to see in my lifetime a number of formerly Christian countries in Europe turning Muslim. There are five reasons for this dismal, frightening prognosis...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I linked to your post from my article <a href="http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2007/04/its_the_demographics.html" rel="nofollow">It&#8217;s the demographics, stupid &#8211; the Flight from Islam</a>, Excerpt: I expect to see in my lifetime a number of formerly Christian countries in Europe turning Muslim. There are five reasons for this dismal, frightening prognosis&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: bernie</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7833</link>
		<dc:creator>bernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 02:03:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/time-to-get-out/#comment-7833</guid>
		<description>How many Americans, Aussies, or Canadians would happily move to Holland, given the chance?

Silly question.  Who would want to go live in a country filled with Muslims?

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many Americans, Aussies, or Canadians would happily move to Holland, given the chance?</p>
<p>Silly question.  Who would want to go live in a country filled with Muslims?</p>
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