Time For Latinos to Stand Against Illegal Immigration
But what seem to be a relative few, like the Latino reader who wrote me recently to criticize some of my positions, appear to be sorting through conflicting loyalties.
“I get the sense you are proud to be Latino and defend Latinos when they are unnecessarily attacked,” he wrote. “But I am confused as to why you are against illegal immigration. In one of your articles you state that you support ‘speedy deportations and raids.’ As someone who has relatives who have come to this country illegally, I don’t think I have it in me to say some of the things you have said — like supporting raids and deportations. I do not think it looks and sounds good to say things like that, especially coming from someone who is of Mexican ancestry.”
I had to respond.
“I’m not only the grandson of a Mexican immigrant but also the son of a retired cop,” I wrote. “Opposing illegal anything comes easy, because it’s ‘illegal.’ The better question is why so many Latinos are willing to excuse this one kind of illegal behavior because they have family members who’ve engaged in it. I have cousins in San Quentin, born in the U.S., who engaged in other kinds of illegal behavior and I don’t feel compelled to defend them. Family ties only get you so far. Lastly, I believe people have to take responsibility for their actions. If you love the people who make up your community, you’ll stop coddling them and start treating them like adults. ”
Conservatives might be surprised to learn of that exchange. In the minds of many of them, I have three strikes that lead them to think that I condone illegal immigration — my surname, my support for comprehensive reform, and my opposition to half-baked, harebrained anti-illegal immigration measures that never work and only succeed in dividing people. But if they think I lean too far to the left, they should get a look at some of those who criticize me for leaning too far to the right.
Here’s the bargain that needs striking. U.S.-born Latinos have to stand up against illegal immigration, even as they continue to support comprehensive immigration reform and condemn bigotry and stupidity wherever it surfaces. And, at the same time, other U.S. citizens have to give them the benefit of the doubt and stop assuming that their loyalties lie elsewhere.
They may be working through a few things, like other groups of Americans have for the last couple hundred years. But they’ll find their way home.
I couldn’t agree more. I said it way back when President Bush was trying to push through immigration reform that either we support a logically solution or we end up with silent amnesty by doing nothing. It has been several years down the road now and how is immigration reform working so far? We need to come up with a realistic way to punish the law breaker, but prevent the chaos of deporting 12 million people. I have put this forth before, but will put it out again to get more input on it. Every person in the US should be identified and categorized as to employment and length of time in the country. If you are a contributing member of society with no criminal record and a job then you should be fined and allowed to apply for legal immigration status. If you are here and are a drag on social programs you should be given 30 days to find a job or face deportation, as well as the fine. If you are hear and have a criminal record you should be fined and placed on a fast track to deportation. This is not free amnesty because everyone here illegally will be fined and their is no immediate citizenship, but there is also no immediate deportation unless you are a criminal and even then there is due process. As for the middle group, if you are here and able to contribute then why aren’t you? If work is hard to find then welcome to the club, but why should the American people support you? We are a nation of laws and if you are here illegally then you are a law breaker and there has to be consequences for that act. If you have stolen someone identity then there are laws to deal with that as well or if your employer hired you and treats you unfairly there are laws for that as well. This is a big old bucket of lawlessness that needs to be emptied out and real solutions found. Ignoring it will not make things better or solve the problems. I am not Latino, but I have to agree that the community must rally to support reform and abide by the law. The idea that laws do not apply to them and theirs does not hold water and drags down the entire community.
Start by stopping trying to tell me how I am thinking, why my thinking is wrong and what I must do as an American in order to begin thinking right.
This article’s “back then” comparative analysis doesn’t cut it. The immigrants that came to our country, built our country and made it great back then were not even remotely like what our nation faces now.
Back then they were contributors whose dreams were to become American citizens as functional, law abiding and participating members of our society.
The vast majority of the illegal Hispanics in our country now are takers encouraged, promoted and protected by businesses and government leaders that are takers in virtually every respect. There is zero respect in this mess for or about anything in our country and nothing in place that would produce goal oriented respect or results of any kind or level. Instead illegal Hispanics are comforted by an endless stream of emotionally driven, melodramatic pleaders that seek to “make a positive difference” by changing the way the bad people; aka real Americans act and behave.
Back then business and government leaders were not made up of America hating, Caucasian hating, Jewish hating, self serving, ego maniacs that encourage, facilitate, promote, use and sustain the out-of-control illegal Hispanics problem in endless schemes that increases their own importance, profit and power.
In short, on a human to human level back then they didn’t pit the citizens of one great nation against those of another in the sick-minded ways we live in now in the age of Obama; who supports comprehensive immigration reform and condemns bigotry and stupidity in the same manner and ways that you do Mr. Navarrette.
Americans don’t buy it.
“The vast majority of the illegal Hispanics in our country now are takers encouraged, promoted and protected by businesses and government leaders that are takers in virtually every respect.”
Today’s so-called Hispanics have been encouraged to claim victim hood status and hostility toward American values—which are deemed white-Anglo imperialist doctrines devised to protect their power. This never occurred previously in American history. The Mexican-American community may be particularly in deep trouble. Far too many of its males are sent to prison and illegitimate babies are becoming the norm.
The EZ-Verify system is perhaps best hope. It could very well resolve most of our illegal immigration troubles. We need to assist employers to easily and inexpensively verify if their prospective and even present employees are legally entitled to work in the United States. All the issues should fall into place after we have finally secured the borders.
You are way off course Ruben. Most Hispanics don’t want to be Americans,but demaned all the benefits. We’re foolish enough to go along with it.
1) Stop assuming that we have other motives in mind when we ask the questions, and maybe then you’ll have some ground from which to complain about our assumptions. Otherwise, can it.
2) We only question the motives of those who seem more dedicated to their latin identity than to the U.S. Why don’t y’all work on them, instead of whining about us? Change the cause, and we’ll change our response.
Stirring the pot again, eh Navarette? (Pssst! Your precepts are showing.)
Tell you what. Why not validate the citizenship of every worker/tax payer, and the illegallity of every welfare leech?
No in-betweens, only legal makers and illegal takers.
One set works while the other plays.
Then there will be nothing to argue about.
My husband is hispanic, his family has owned a ranch here since before texas was texas. They freakin’ HATE illegals. Most native-born hispanics do. The only people who have no problem with illegals are illegals, and politicians, and political groups like la raya. The rest of us-even those of us with brown skin-want them gone.
As one whose ancestors immigrated to this country before 1924 I can give you a clue to why Americans have this antipathy toward illegal and their sympathizers. When my ancestors came here from Germany they did not expect the government to translate documents for them. They didn’t insist that they get special treatment.
No one was more abused than the Irish who came here en masse during the famine 1847-1853+. “No Irish need apply” was the typical sentiment. They did not agitate for more rights, they took the jobs they could get, made their children go to school, moved out of the tenements and into the ‘burbs. These immigrants made this their HOME, they did not try to turn it into what they left behind. They missed their previous home land and may have sent money back home but they paid taxes, became citizens and became Americans first and whatever they had been second.
That is why some Americans descendents of immigrants have issues with the “new” wave of immigrants. Sorry but it’s true, what was good enough for the rest of us should be good enough for you or don’t come here.
let us know ruben when you want to be an american like the rest of us instead of a hispanic american.
Today’s illegal immigrants live off a system of high cost benefits and no accountability or responsibility for those so called rights and benefits. As another poster so aptly pointed out, they are ‘takers’. I am required to carry auto insurance if I want to drive and will be held accountable in an accident. Illegal? No insurance? No problem, you’re off scot free. Now, I will be required to buy health insurance or be fined and possibly jailed by my own government for not purchasing a service while illegals will continue to walk into emergency rooms and get all their care free without penalty. And let’s not even talk about the income and property taxes I pay to fund all these free services that illegal immigrants receive no questions asked. And no, Mr. Navarrette, illegals do not pay taxes. Sales tax does not count! They do cash under the table jobs (no income tax) and live in rental housing (no property taxes). That’s why illegal immigration is wrong. It’s not about country of origin, culture or loyalty. It’s about the tremendous burden these people have become on local public services and the citizens who actually pay the bills while we struggle to maintain what we have worked so hard to earn. Advocates for these groups do them no favors by acting (and litigating) as if these people are entitled to all these benefits without any responsibility all because they initially broke the law.
Navarette’s comments, “And it’s up to the rest of us to give them the benefit of the doubt and stop assuming that their loyalties lie elsewhere,” ignores reality. Several years ago their was a “pro immigration reform rally” in Dallas. About 500,000 people showed up waving flags of their native countries, wearing native attire, and speaking their native languages, with very few if any US flags being displayed. In fact reports showed that those who dared to wave a US flag met a great deal of intimidation from the allegedly loyal to the US immigrants. The reaction of legal immigrants and native born US citizens was predictable. Whatever support the proposed reforms had evaporated. The organizers of the protest requested another rally with the participants wearing white, speaking English, and waving US flags. The rally went off, but the initial response of legal immigrants and native born US citizens remained. The loyalties of illegal immigrants are up to debate.
I oppose instant legal status for MS 13 ghouls, aka comprehensive immigration reform. I assume most common sense Latinos also oppose such “reform.” You got it wrong again, Ruben.
“Still, it’s fair to say that many U.S.-born Latinos still remain ambivalent about illegal immigration, especially if — somewhere in their family — there’s an ancestor who jumped over a fence, crossed under a wire, or swam a river to give himself and his descendants a better tomorrow.”
I live in California and have several neighbors of Mexican heritage who are ANTI illegal immigration to the core. They’re aware that the financial and social burdens of the state supporting and educating millions of illegals brings down the quality of life for their own kids. I am not worried about these good people.
It’s the ones who have no difficulty sanctioning law-breaking when it suits their purpose or serves their interests. I have an anecdote to illustrate the point. A certain neighbor has illegal relatives living in her house. This neighbor works as a clerk in the local convenience store. One day, I stood in line behind this woman’s sister (who is here illegally). While the sister was talking to my neighbor, her kids were filling their coat and pants pockets with candy from the store’s racks. I said to the clerk “Excuse me, but these kids are stealing from your store.” To which she replied “I’m working here and I say they can take it.” I wonder if her boss, the store’s owner, would be pleased with her largesse. But hey, it’s not my neighbor’s money. It belongs to someone else, so who cares if we steal it? Moral of the story: if people are willing to look the other way for one type of crime, they will look the other way for all the rest. These are the people that I’d like to see returned to their country of origin (on whatever continent that might be).
Ruben, Ruben,Ruben try this one trick pony on the huffington post.
Just as every individual has the right to control who comes into his house, a nation has the right to control who enters its borders. What is needed is respect for Americans who want our immigration laws enforced and an end to false accusations of racism, nationalism and xenophobia. Openly racist organizations such as La Raza should be dismantled and their leaders deported.
Politicians have once again managed to create a problem where one didn’t previously exist. If our borders were secure, this wouldn’t be the issue it is.
Navarette’s comments, “And it’s up to the rest of us to give them the benefit of the doubt and stop assuming that their loyalties lie elsewhere,”
Could you tell me the translation of La Raza again?
I think most people would accept reform if enforcement came first. The reality is that the Dems will push reform but not enforcement. They see it as a voting bloc. If the reform passes, many Americans will feel their government is looking out for others but not for them. That is dangerous. It sets up the possibility of fascism. Liberalism and fascism are both statist ideologies. The only difference is who the political class defines as the disadvantaged (others vs them).
Good to see the anger and realistic attitude to illegal immigration and its supporters. When you come to America LEARN ENGLISH!! Be a PRODUCTIVE member of society, dont become a gang member,be a giver, not a taker. If the illegals would follow these steps, maybe they would get some sympathy and assistance on the way to become US citizens. A good solution to the problem is to arrest/punish the employers of the illegals. . .when there are no jobs for them , they leave. Also, when illegals are allowed to work here, tax them at a higher rate to help pay for all the services they are taking from us.My wife works at a local hospital and sees illegals come in all the time and get free medical care and all sorts of help. Let a white American citizen try that and see what happens. . . . .
TO: All
RE: Heh
Well….
…..I tried to express myself here earlier, but the comment never showed up.
However, some of you people are rougher on Rube than I was intending to be.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
Latinos don’t like conservatives. Or haven’t you heard? But there’s good news . . . real estate is fairly reasonable in Sand Point Idaho.
Let’s be clear on this. We’re supposed to believe that our illegal aliens have loyalty to America? I just don’t see that happening. When an illegal alien kills someone in this town what is the first thing he does? Run for the border. When an illegal alien wants to visit his wife and some of his children what does he do? He leaves his girlfriend and the rest of his children and runs for the border. When an illegal alien is faced with telling the truth or lying what does he do? He lies. I am tired of criminals in my midst. Send them all home.
When I lived in South Texas and worked with, employed, and enjoyed knowing many native-born Hispanics, I did not know one who condoned illegals from South America or anywhere else. This nation does not need so-called comprehensive reform. It needs to enforce the immigration laws it has, stop illegals entering at the border, and punish people who employ illegals.
If America were to enforce it’s own laws, and try and deport all the illegal immigrants at once (not something I necessarily agree with), there would be a civil war in the U.S, largely coloured by “race”. Now what does that say about the state of the Union, when you can’t even enforce your own laws without stability breaking down?
I agree with Rueben and am very disappointed with most of the comments.
What defines us as Americans? It’s not our DNA — it’s our commitment to the principle of equality, Constitutional government, the Bill of Rights, and the rule of law. It’s accepting the principle that every citizen is equal before the law, regardless of race, color, creed, or economic status.
For the record, I’m white. Some of my European ancestors arrived here in the 1630s. I also consider myself conservative.
I grew up in Southern California with wonderful Hispanic neighbors and good Hispanic friends in public schools. They were interesting people. They were also smart, law-abiding, hard-working and honest. America needs more people with these qualities, regardless of language or color.
But yes, there were also serious problems with illegal immigration. (I speak in past tense because I moved from California in 1995). Every person I knew (regardless of race), for instance, had been involved in at least one car accident caused by an illegal alien with no insurance. No one wants to or should have pay for the bad behavior of others. If the Hispanic community in general exercised zero tolerance for illegal and dishonest behavior, other Americans would find it much easier to see the great qualities of their Hispanic neighbors.
If you think the Health Care Bill was contentious, wait until this Bill hits daylight . It will not only be ‘contentious’ but it will become VIOLENT. When the illegals start waving Mexican flags, and DEMANDING their ‘RIGHTS’….the s*hit will hit the fan. We do NOT want you here if you are illegal., and we don’t want you here if you are uneducated. We have have to spend millions to educate you, as we are doing now. STAY the hell out of my country, my house. You do not belong here. What part of this do you NOT understand ?????
I’m sick of hearing excuses as to why the laws can’t be enforced. There would be no civil war. It would be cheaper to build and maintain a wall then deport all the illegals then it costs the border states each year for what the spend on illegals. And don’t just stop with hispanics either get rid of all the illegals. They come here and break multiple laws. These people are criminals not victims.
Latino citizens can work for any kind of immigration reform they want. I will consider them loyal American citizens when they support the aggressive enforcement of our existing immigration laws. This means deporting the millions of illegal immigrants that are here now. This can be done. What is lacking is the political will to do it. There are a handful of people making profits off of illegal immigration but the real resistance to enforcing the law comes from the Latino community.
While there are many of Hispanic heritage that love America and work diligently to be an integral part of America, there seems to also be a large number of Hispanics who have no interest in assimilation – and it is unprecidented in the history of this nation to have such a large number of immigrants who place their ethnic heritage above America. We should welcome those who wish to come here and take the fibers of their greatness and weave them into the cloth of America. We should turn away those that do not wish to pursue such a path, those who wish to work towards the destruction of the cohesiveness of America by speaking foreign languages and waving foreign flags on our soil – those people will never make a contribution to America, but instead will take from America only to achieve their own selfish goals. America was made great by those that came here to be Americans.
Comprehensive immigration reform condones illegal immigration. Something doesn’t work in your argument.
“principle that every citizen is equal before the law, regardless of race, color, creed, or economic status.”
Your own statement supports us-every CITIZEN. Not every person in the world. We can’t pay enough in taxes for that. Illegals are felons. Period. Before anything else. Why would we want to welcome felons? We have enough of our own here.
I’d love to raise my kids in the “best” neighborhood in town. It would give them a better life. But I have no right to just walk into that neighborhood and take a house. Citizens of other countries-no matter their reason for wanting to come-can’t just walk into the US and live, either.
Immigration “reform”? There’s that word again, as in health care “reform”. What does it mean? If comprehensive reform means giving amnesty to millions of illegals it is not reform. It is disaster.
Navarrette is to be commended for opposing illegal activity, at least in theory. It should be more than a bit worrisome that few other Hispanic leaders are willing to do even that.
And, it needs to be pointed out that to a certain extent Navarrette is playing word games: in effect, he wants to make currently illegal activity legal. He doesn’t want to halt the flow of people from Latin America, he just wants a “safe and orderly” flow as many have said.
And, regarding Ellis Island etc., see this:
http://24ahead.com/s/immigration-tradition-fallacy
What a joke, the Latino stand on immigration reform is a( open boarders and b(make California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas part of Mexico. Next thing we will be told how the moderate muslims are going to stand up against terrorism. Face facts Mr.Navarette the only voice presented from the Latino community is that of larasa and it’s ilk and I for one don’t foresee the media including dissenting voices any time soon. We live in a time when American citizens are being sued for detaining illegal aliens, who are trespassing on his land while sneaking across the boarder, and turning them over to ICE. Their not even illegal aliens anymore, now they are undocumented workers.
Navarrete doesn’t oppose illegal immigration he only opposes defining any immigration as illegal.
Its a nice clear play on words as he tries vanity to appear sane on this issue. Navarrete believes that we should just label anyone crossing the border as legal and be done with it.
the issue is that if they used today’s standards at Ellis island, your great grandparents who showed up with a dollar and a quarter in their pocket wouldn’t have gotten a visa. there are no centers like Ellis island to process immigrants, that i know of. the dual citizenship that mexico gives, allows 2 gen kids to have power in mexico, those that already have US citizenship already have power of their vote in US. i have to trust my congress to do anything right(common sense) as far as any reform, whether it be health care or immigration reform? this year has shown they can be trusted to be elbow deep in my assets with both hands. immigration reform should be one hella circus.
Why give them the benefit of the doubt? I watched demonstrations by a mixture of latino/hispanic/whatever legal and illegal immigrants yelling “Si se pueda” and demanding amnesty. Were these demonstrations faked? Did the demonstrators not mean what they said? Now, I know that there are latinos/hispanics/whatevers that want the laws of the U.S. to be enforced but they are about as vocal as moderate Muslims are about Islamic terrorism.
The easiest solution? Prosecute all employers who hire illegals to work…on first offense, revoke business license…that would positively eliminate the insentive to hire illegals if the first time you get caught you lose your business license.
37. Rich Vail:
The easiest solution? Prosecute all employers who hire illegals to work…on first offense, revoke business license…that would positively eliminate the insentive to hire illegals if the first time you get caught you lose your business license.
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That’s actually a great idea. But until there are ways to better verify legality along the lines of e-verify it will have issues. Like taking away the lively hood of an owner and his employees because a criminal scammed that employer with fraudulent identification. Other incentives would be to stop giving incentives for illegals staying. No more welfare. No more allowing children to attend schools. No more forcing hospitals to pass on billion in costs to the tax payers and legit patients for things like free dialysis to illegals. No more federal funds to sanctuary cities. No more states forcing companies like Home Depot to provide shelter for loitering day labourors. No more states forcing cities to provide shelter either.
For the first time I have read any of your columns you are making sense. You have a tendency to insinuate that those of us who oppose amnesty are “anti-Latino”, the ray gun equivalent of calling someone a racist. It worked for so long that it’s hard to realize your favorite cudgel has worn thin and people are wise to the tactic. When your very lives are being taken from you piece by piece, it shouldn’t matter what name you are called. So it’s satisfactory to see even you are being reasonable and giving many good heated people the benefit of the doubt instead of lambasting them with the same old racial tactics.
What galls me about Ruben Navarrette Jr. is his glee at the prospect that Latinos are becoming a majority (at least in California), and that others have lost the power to do anything about it.
This is one of those annoying discussions that never goes anywhere, really, for fairly simple reasons. I agree with Mr. Navarette more this time than most, but he falls into the same trap most writers on this subject do: he asserts that “they” (illegal aliens) think or don’t think particular things. The fact is that this group isn’t monolithic in any fashion, and the group isn’t completely of one ethnicity or another, either (there are Chinese, Armenian, and etc., illegal aliens also). This makes if frustrating, because since the group isn’t monolithic in its views, some members of the group are probably more worthy than others. If you deal harshly with illegal aliens, you’ll risk unfairly impacting some working mother who’d jump at the chance to be a citizen, and who has a son serving honorably in Iraq or Afghanistan. If you coddle them, you’ll wind up helping a gangbanger from East LA who will promptly go out and murder some innocent citizen in thanks. The problem here is that one size definitely doesn’t fit all. The government needs to understand that, and try something that will distinguish between the one individual and the other. I’m opposed to illegal immigration, always have been. But I’ve also asked the question: what would you do, if you lived in some Latin American kleptocracy where any sort of advancement is unlikely, property rights are non-existent, and murder endemic? You can play roadkill, or break the rather mildly-enforced laws of the Land of Plenty to the north, where you can get a job, work hard, and raise a family. Hmmmm…I think in that situation I’d have a hard time standing on my ethics, and staying where I was, just to remain law-abiding, while laws are broken around you every day.
But what am I talking about? Everyone who’s a member of a group thinks the same way, right? Yeah right…
My mother is a legal immigrant from S. Korea. Granted, a non-hispanic, but she despises illegal immigrants. Personally, I think you have to consider where loyalties lie. If you’re covering for illegal immigrants, then you’re an accomplice. If you truly abide by the law, and respect it, then you’re part of the solution.
No one ever thinks about what harm is done to the illegal immigrants themselves when it comes to illegal immigration. They already handicap themselves, they often make themselves automatic victims of crime. They’re living in a system which enslaves them, and where they often have no legal recourse for damages. They’re automatically second class citizens who can never be Americans. It truly would be better for them to leave, and come back legally. They are doing far more harm to themselves staying here illegally then they would be doing if they did the right thing by leaving and coming back legally.
We need to get those illegals out of here.
Also, we need to SPEED UP the paperwork process. There is NO reason for it to take YEARS to get people approved. Also, we should raise the limits.
Additionally, we should put people on the fast track for $5,000. That’s what they pay a coyote to bring them across a desert. For that price, they should be able to get into a VIP line. How much is $5,000 x 2 MILLION immigrants? It adds up doesn’t it?
Let’s get rid of the illegals, bring in more LEGALS, and charge admission.
The problem is that most Latinos who come here illegally have a comparatively base value system, which is a product of their culture, and assimilation or Americanization is no longer the goal. That is, most of the illegals are poor, uneducated, and uncouth. The Latinos who are born here and growing up here are indoctrinated into the same mentality that blacks possess — one of victimhood and hand-outs. This is why Latinos oppose strong illegal immigration measures, because they see it a denial of a hand-out. This is all that they care about. They don’t think past their group, and anything they can whine about and win, they will call it a victory. It doesn’t matter if what they’re “winning” is making things worse for them as individuals or for the group, let alone for the country. They don’t earnestly think in terms of ‘what’s best for America?’; though they pay it lip service if it suits their agenda of getting more concessions to the group.
I came here illegally in the early 70s when I was six years old. My whole family did. We’re all citizens now, and I am strongly in favor of stronger immigration measures. My sister accuses me of being a hypocrite. I always marvel at how selfish and self-centered one would have to be to advocate a policy detrimental to this country for the benefit of not being a hypocrite. Hey, if we came here illegally and now oppose illegal immigration, then I can live with the title of ‘hypocrite.’ That’s much better than lacking the moral integrity and patriotism to support what’s best for this country.
This isn’t a US-born Latinos fight only; it’s a pro-US fight.
Want to improve the wages of yourself and other Hispanics, reduce the illegals competing for your job with “lower wages!” That would be my message to “legal” immigrants.
“…harebrained anti-illegal immigration measures that never work and only succeed in dividing people.”
The damper on immigration after 1924 and the emphasis on assimilation did not divide people, it united them into one America. Thus, I am not an Irish- American, I am an American. It’s only the current multiculti, open border ethic that divides people, just like the Balkans.
Ruben, I am proud of you! It took you how long to get the message?
Now, the second part is that this administration cares zero about the Latinos in this country. This Inmigration reform is aimed at the Muslim and Africans who are going to be coming to the US in numbers you cannot even imagine! Obama’s goal is to show to the world that the US is not a ‘Christian’ nation as he said in his speech in Turkey, but a Muslim nation with a large legal inmigration from muslims and africans….He already gave 20 million dollars to Hamas to come to relocate in your friendly neighborhood…
Mexicans, Salvadorans are peanuts for this administration because they are all Christians..so I hope this helps you get the second part of the Obama Inmigration plan and you can write a nice article about how Gutierrez knows that he is betraying his brothers for the money he gets from the Chicago boys!
As a small business owner, a few points:
1. I am married to a woman of hispanic heritage whose family roots go back to Mexico. Some relatives are still Mexican nationals, but they live in Mexico. The ones I know as close relatives are all U.S citizens, and they all live and work in the US (all my brothers and sisters in law are very successful). Some are liberals and some are conservatives. Some republicans and some democrats. The family does have ties to Mexico that are current. My ties to England and Scotland are a bit farther removed and not as relative to me (no pun intended).
2. Legally, I was required to accept two forms of identification (social security card and drivers license) for documenting my employees and was not allowed to investigate the validity of those documents or I would have been breaking the law. Not that I could have anyway. Or should I have judged the applicants by the color of their skin?
3. Since July 2009, all my new hires will need to be e-verified or I will be breaking the law. This is a welcome addition to the process. But I will be e-verifying everyone who asks for a job – not just the latinos. By the way may wife is a latina, but can pass for a white. Not so her brothers and sisters. But then I fell in love with her knowing she was a latina and wouldn’t have e-verified her back then anyway.
4. So any previous employees who are faking legality are okay, but any new ones who are faking legality are not – by law.
5. My wife is not in favor of illegal immigration, nor am I.
6. I only ask that my selection of employees be based not on the color of their skin or their accents, but on their status as either a US citizen or a worker who is properly documented, i.e. has real documented worker status.
E-verify is as close as I can get – but it will apply to all my new hires. You never know when those pesky Russian wannabe wives will apply for a job.
7. This is my main problem with alot of you “conservative posters” (I are one too)- it is the skin color and accent that is singled out in your discussions. How many Chinese restauranteurs are here illegally? And do you care?
8. Personally I am for enforcement, but what are you going to do with the natural born kids. How many of you will break up their families – I mean personally. Maybe this is a complicated problem – for whatever reason.
9. If Obama’s talk is cheap- how about yours?
10. Personnally, I think I understand how Ruben is wanting some respect – it is not hard to identify with a group when you think there is predjudice afoot. And so it does leave you with wanting to be recognized as someone who is a proud American with all the creds, but has a divided heart. I have a divided heart through marriage and who knows what crazy things I would do for love.
11. Who says the people at the rallies were citizens of Latin heritage? Maybe they were all illegals.
12. These numbers didn’t really help to keep me from rambling did they?
Sorry, I guess I am emotionally tied to this issue. So cut this white boy some immigration slack – okay?
“Some Americans are apt to question the loyalties of U.S.-born Latinos, accusing them of being more sympathetic to the foreign visitors than to their own country or fellow citizens. It’s not right, but nor is it new.”
Yeah, I think that’s the way things are on Neptune. Here in California, my sister-in-law had to quit her job at a nursing home because of persecution by the Lateenos on the staff. See, she was taking up a job that should have gone to a Lateeeno.
Ruben, did you vote for Obambi? Are you still glad that you did?
I think we’re missing the point here – As the son of an immigrant (mom was a refugee) I am all for welcoming people into this country to make a better life for themselves and their families. I am not, however a big fan of granting amnesty to an entire group of people who began their stay in this country by committing a crime (illegally entering the country).
I also find it hard to believe that someone who is here working on a temporary basis, sending their money out of the country and investing in their retirement back ‘home’ in another country, really has any loyalty to this one. They are here to make their money and get out. This isn’t their new home, and they don’t identify with their temporary residence. So yes, on that basis, I would question their loyalty and whether or not they’re good for this country.
The assumption that seems to float around that if you’re against illegal immigration or granting amnesty to those that violated the law to get here, you must be a racist, is deeply offensive to me as well – race has nothing to do with my opinion – it has everything to do with depressed wages, increased crime (both from the illegals and against the illegals who are afraid to report it), and the fact that business is using illegal labor to increase profit while lowering wages below the point at which someone who is here legally would accept the job is also offensive.
Illegal labor harms the poor in this country as well – they’re competing for the same jobs that the unskilled and poor in this country need to support their families and make better lives for themselves – this increases the burden on our own social services, and increases the tax burden on me.
I agree that there are some seriously half-baked and ineffective plans out there to combat illegal immigration (and the drug traffic that flows across the border along with it – camouflaged by the sheer volume of traffic coming across) We need to do like Arizona – penalize businesses for supporting illegal behavior, stop the demand for illegal labor. We need a guest worker type visa, allowing for workers to enter this country legally to take the jobs that we can’t fill, but in a manner to ensure they’re being paid fairly as well.
And, yes, deport those here illegally.
Of some note once more Ruben,,
We the Apache lost the American Southwest first to unlimited illegal immigration from Mexico/Spain. It was a 500 year fight to our near complet death.
You who read this, you Americans of today,,, you are the new Apache, and they do intend to take your country from you.
The only question is will you fight like my great, great, great, grandfather Mangus Colorados did. You can read his story in a book by Will Livinton Comfort, “Apache”.
You just could come to a moment with the “hot iron” to your feet.
Citizen taxpayers have to pay for welfare benefits, bilingual education and hospital bankrupting free medical services for people who are in this country illegally. Not only do illegals burden everyone else with their “entitlements”, they are increasingly ungrateful and hostile to anyone who wants them to follow the same laws as Americans. They don’t even bother to learn English anymore. They don’t have to because they know Obama will kowtow to them if they vote for his party. But, most importantly, they have taken approximately 8 million jobs from Americans and lowered wages for millions more. This proposed amnesty for (I believe) 30-40 million will also include extended family members not yet here. How many more jobs can we lose? How long will Social Security and Medicare last once they are added to the rolls? Why are we importing uneducated, third world, non-tax paying people while Americans are suffering?
This country cannot survive it. We must do everything we can to fight it.
7. momof4:
“My husband is hispanic, his family has owned a ranch here since before texas was texas. They freakin’ HATE illegals. Most native-born (h)ispanics do. The only people who have no problem with illegals are illegals, and politicians, and political groups like la raya(sic). The rest of us-even those of us with brown skin-want them gone.”:
Typical superiority complex racial attitude. Gringos vs. mojados. Ethnocentrism.
20. Now and Then:
“Latinos don’t like conservatives.”
Correction: Some Latinos don’t like Conservatives. Many Latinos are Conservatives, sometimes of the worst kind.
24. Doug King:
“What defines us as Americans? It’s not our DNA — it’s our commitment to the principle of equality, Constitutional government, the Bill of Rights, and the rule of law. It’s accepting the principle that every citizen is equal before the law, regardless of race, color, creed, or economic status.”
Many illegals have NO idea what you’re talking about . . .
* * *
By the way, the difference between a legal and an illegal person is a piece of paper . . .
Just a quick correction, Ruben.
An immigrant is one who moves to another country, and leaves the old one behind — language, loyalty, and culture. A colonist is one who keeps their old ways. Get the difference? Good!
Illegal immigration is a colonialist movement. La Raza et. al. are colonialist organizations. Multiculturalism and bilingualism are government forced acquiescence to colonialism. Acceptance of colonialism is treason, and resistance is the obligation of all citizens.
It is time to lower our “immigration” numbers by a factor of ten, until the day our current “immigrants” are fully assimilated. We are not under any obligation, legal or moral, to accept the current deluge of new arrivals; if we see it is in our interests to lower the level to 100,000 per year, we are free to do so. And I’ve got some news: It is in our interests.
“Yes” to low level immigration… “No” to colonialism.
As soon as they consistently behave in ways that demonstrate that their loyalties don’t lie elsewhere, I don’t think anyone will have any problem giving them the “benefit of the doubt.” (Homework assignment: why has there been “a doubt”? These things don’t happen in a vacuum and it gets so tiresome being asked to suckitup to make someone else not have to bear the consequences of their own behavior.)
The neighborhood where I grew up (and still have a business) is now mostly hispanic..mostly illegal and looks much like Mexican border towns I visited thoughout my life. Lots of the businesses close down between Christmas and New Years and everybody goes “home” to Mexico. The main thoroughfare which was the “downtown” in my old neighborhood is unrecognizable as being in America. Every storefront’s name is en espanol and there are unrelenting attempts to rename the street for Cesar Chavez. I mean seriously. We throw away the names of a city’s founding fathers for Cesar Chavez who has no connection to our city? Who can think this is building a “richer” America? It’s really cutting it in half and it makes me sad.
Who are you kidding–the Latino illegal immigrants today are obnoxious, arrogant, and possess an overwhelming sense of entitlement. My grandfather emigrated from Italy and immigrants from the past did not expect and demand free health care and endless welfare benefits. This whole fiasco has been unbelievably destructive to the US.
Indeed, this whole catering to and pampering of shows exactly what not to do. It doesn’t solve any problems and only reinforces irresponsible behavior. They actually get preferential treatment in comparison to legal residents AND at the cost of legal residents.
Through the Opportunity I-loan program in Illinois (home of the treasonous and despicable Gutierrez), an illegal could get a home loan from the state without needing an income tax return, bank account, or credit score AND get a below market interest rate loan WHICH I COULDN’T EVEN GET.
They are a net drain on the economy and have suppressed wages. And the politicians throw the US under the bus as they whore for votes and power.
E-Verify? In IL they actually made it ILLEGAL for an employer to use it before back-pedaling due to the threat of a lawsuit. Then they strongly suggested employers not use it. How’s that for government encouraging the suppression of wages for EVERYONE and promoting illegal activity. Is it any wonder IL is one of the most troubled states in the union?
I loathe them all; the parasitic illegals and the politicians who pander to them for their own selfish reasons. Oh, and I loathe the parasitic legal residents and the politicians who pander to them for their own selfish reasons, too.
“By the way, the difference between a legal and illegal person is a piece of paper.”
Yeah, and the difference between your home not being mine is a piece of paper.
59. Walworth:
“Yeah, and the difference between your home not being mine is a piece of paper.”
You are pretty much right, except homes don’t migrate and the owner can shoot you.
Well said Mr. Navarrete. We need immigration reform, not mass deportations, to make it easy for good, hardworking people to come in and easy for bums and gang members to be kicked out. There was a case a few years ago in Logan, UT where a man who was a pillar of the community, who thought he had immigrated legally many years earlier, was being deported because when he came to the U.S. he hadn’t filled out one particular form that accidentally wasn’t included in his paperwork package. There was no appealing it because the law didn’t allow for mistakes. We have to design a system where this kind of thing doesn’t happen, because we WANT people like him in our communities, who want to be here. America was founded by, and continues to be enriched by, such people. They shouldn’t have to choose between hiring a coyote or an immigration lawyer to guide them across the border.
BTW to everyone whose panties are in a wad because some people don’t speak English: volunteer to teach English classes. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Again, we should just speed the queue of those doing the right thing – nothing more. The “queue” (those in some form of application status) is still plurality (maybe not majority?) Mexican at this juncture – one cousin gets booted, one stays – hispanic vote split. This will also stem some of that brain flight back to China and India. Those from Islamic countries should volunteer to convert. Then you can do all the skills-only, time-out, whatever numbers reducing actions you need for immigration control.
Apaches-Mexicans = Russians-Nazis? Apaches might even be multicentury sunburned Russians themselves, given the whole Bering Strait thing.
As far as I’m concerned, if you didnt come before the Ellis Island (1880s) era, you really didnt build the country much either.
The border has through out American history been controversial.For most of us here in Texas the border has always been close and personal.I have been going to the border for well over a decade,we are a group of citizen’s that have been picking up trash there and I would like to share a hand full of photos of our work and our e-mail if they will let us and if you want come with us and see for your self
http://www.trailerparkshow.com/SSborder02.wmv http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chLl7hXJl54
http://www.trailerparkshow.com
I can’t describe the border but I can tell you it is not what you think.The WMV fill takes a while to down load.We met the minute men in Falfurrias Texas and it did not go well,no locals liked them and I will pay you money if you find one law enforcement that likes them,a bunch of white boys from Arkansas is all we saw.I could go on and on
“…some Americans are apt to question the loyalties of U.S.-born Latinos, accusing them of being more sympathetic to the foreign visitors than to their own country of fellow citizens.
Its not right, nor is it new. With the arrival of every immigrant group to these shores for the last 220 years — from the Germans, Irish, and Italians to the Chinese, Jews, and Greeks — there have been similar questions about U.S. citizens with those ethnic roots. History shows those concerns were largely unfounded and based more on prejudice than reason.”
“Demographically, socially, and culturally, the reconquista of the Southwest United States by Mexican immigrants is well underway…No other immigrant group in U.S. history has asserted or could assert a historical claim to U.S. territory. Mexicans and Mexican Americans can and do make that claim.”
Harvard Professor Samuel P. Huntington, Chairman of the Harvard Academy for International and Area Studies.
“The U.S. Southwest will secede and may rejoin Mexico…No nation’s borders have been permanent. Throughout history, nations and empires rise and fall.”
2002, Charles Truxillo, professor at the University of New Mexico (who also said succession of the U.S. Southwest is an “inevitability” because of high Hispanic immigration).
“A secessionist movement is not something that you can put away and say it is never going to happen in the United States. Time and history change.”
2002, Armando Navarro, professor at the University of California-Riverside.
“We don’t need no stinking green cards.”
Benicio Silva of UC Berkeley declared that having to show them at the border was a “violation of our human rights” because “Aztlan is ours and the white man is the invader.”
“We are betting that the Mexican American population in the United States will think Mexico first.”
Juan Hernandez, U.S. born member of Vicente Fox’s cabinet.
Obviously, this is just the tiniest tip of the iceberg. And who can forget the huge marches and rallies. Mexican flags flown above upside-down American flags. Numerous signs advocating ethnic separatism and Latino supremacy. THIS LAND IS STOLEN (Hmmm, don’t think those Germans, Irish, Italians, and Greeks were claiming that).
No, most of today’s Latino immigrants are not like immigrants from the past. Probably because we don’t have a president like Teddy Roosevelt with the courage to speak about immigration and being an American.
I find the question of, what to do with the supposed 12 million illegals interesting. It is like the stray that shows up on the door step, if you feed it, you own it for ever.
If we want to solve the illegal mess, quit feeding them. No free medical, no free houses, no jobs, it is easy to check and see if a person is an illegal or not, but th govt makes excuses for employers because it serves both of their purposes, so nothing gets fixed. If we want to end employment of illegals, let ICE do its job, as it was before zero saved the day. Put the employers in jail along with their illegal work force.
You can’t find a construction job in Texas that has anyone on it that isn’t mexican and probably illegal, it was not that way when I moved here in 84.
My own senator, cornyn of Texas, makes one excuse after another about the poor downtrodden. Now if they were white, I am sure they would be moved along on the QT.
I wait for people to open their mouths before I determine what they are thinking. I suggest you do the same, Mr. Navarrette.
On a side note, regarding the upcoming Illegal Legislation in Congress — I’d call them “undocumented” but given the opaqueness of Congress these days, that would be a pun that may crack open space time… as it is it’s double entendre at every turn — we already have an administration and Congress that believes that enemy combatants have full legal recourse in the U.S. so don’t hold your breath that they will crack down on illegals.
More ethnic drivel from PJMs token ethnic group think expert.
The Apache at 52 makes a good point. Go back a few hundred or thousands of years and most American Indians’ ancestors migrated to their current homeland from somewhere else. But the point is they established homelands and respected each other’s territory or paid for it. I find it ridiculous for a Mexican with a trace of Mixtec Yaqui, Maya blood to claim that they have rights to USA territory. My neighbors in SW Oklahoma, Kiowas, Comanches and Fort Sill Apaches, used to enforce the border quite well and got some nice horses out of Chihuahua to boot.
I’m an immigrant, born in Nicaragua, naturalized US citizen since the age of 22. I also have relatives who immigrated to the US illegally. So what? It’s illegal. Every country has the right to regulate who enters, and that includes the US. No one has the right to enter a country except for the citizens of that country.
As for my loyalties; I voluntarily relinquished my Nicaraguan citizenship and am now an officer in the US Army. My loyalty is first, last and always with the US.
When the illegals become ‘citizens’ (using that term loosely), then we simply become Northern Mexico. You can see what a piss hole that place, and most every other country south of the border, is. When we become the minority, it will be hell-on-earth for whitey. I see war.Violent, raging, killem’ all war. Only then will we understand what other countries around the world have been dealing with, say..Basques in Spain, Northern Ireland, EVERY country in Africa,etc….people want to be with their own kind, except 300 lb. white girls , who will be with anybody.
#65
Next time you’re on the job site, I will produce my papers AND shove them so far up your @$$ that the back of your eyes sees the newborn baby footprint.
#69
As an officer of our Armed Forces, did you make a very special phone call to ICE?
#71
Then how the heck do those hell-holes elect pasty-face and yellow people with names like Fox, Bachelet, Kirschner, Fujimori, and Michelleti? Sheesh, male “whitey” would be a sire horse in most towns. Most of your modern narcos could dab on some cologne and blend into the “Jersey Shore” landscape I think a un-mixed blood non-ethnic (e.g. Jamaican or African) Black American or a proud Native American of the type like Apache #52 would have more to fear in a prototypical Northern Rural Mexico. White is worshipped – how do you think Cortes got so far so fast.
For most of my life I lived within 60 miles of the USA border in Ontario, Canada. Many times I obeyed US law, crossed at a border checkpoint, was legally admitted and when my tourism in the US was concluded I headed that car back across them bridge at Niagara Falls.
At any time, I could have stayed in the US as an illegal. Perhaps, since I started crossing in the 1970′s, I would have been legalized under the Reagan program in the 1980′s.
Fortunately, I am now a LEGAL holder of an I-551 (green card) and look forward to successful naturalization proceedings. Frankly, I have NO SYMPATHY for those who started their life here as law breakers. I could have done the same and chose not too.
These illegal people, no matter how long they have been here, make a monkey of every natural born US citizen, every permanent resident who has gone through elaborate and long proceedings to hold an I-551, and temporary residents on a variety of visas and statuses who studiously observe the nuances of US immigration law.
Deport them forthwith. If they have US connections to a natural born or naturalized citizen, existing law under the family unification provisions will provide adequate means for them to return to the USA.