This Holocaust Will Be Different
by Benny Morris for the Jerusalem Post
[At PJM the editors review thousands of articles per month. In recent memory we cannot think of a more alarming, prescient essay that this one published today by Benny Morris.
Morris is one of the most respected intellectuals in Israel and his conversion dove to hawk was widely heralded and criticized at the time. Morris, one of the "New Historians," wrote about this 'transformation' for the Guardian in 2002, saying, "I imagine that I feel a bit like one of those western fellow travelers rudely awakened by the trundle of Russian tanks crashing through Budapest in 1956." Today Morris goes even deeper into the darkening future of the Middle East as he looks at what is coming there, and to the rest of the world.]
THE SECOND HOLOCAUST will not be like the first. The Nazis, of course, industrialized mass murder. But still, the perpetrators had one-on-one contact with the victims. They may have dehumanized them over months and years of appalling debasement and in their minds, before the actual killing. But, still, they were in eye and ear contact, sometimes in tactile contact, with their victims.
The Germans, along with their non-German helpers, had to round up the men, women and children from their houses and drag and beat them through the streets and mow them down in nearby woods or push and pack them into cattle cars and transport them to the camps, where "Work makes free," separate the able-bodied from the completely useless and lure them into "shower" halls and pour in the gas and then take out, or oversee the extraction of, the bodies and prepare the "showers" for the next batch.
The second holocaust will be quite different.
One bright morning, in five or 10 years, perhaps during a regional crisis, perhaps out of the blue, a day or a year or five years after Iran’s acquisition of the Bomb, the mullahs in Qom will convene in secret session, under a portrait of the steely-eyed Ayatollah Khomeini, and give President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, by then in his second or third term, the go-ahead.
The orders will go out and the Shihab III and IV missiles will take off for Tel Aviv, Beersheba, Haifa and Jerusalem, and probably some military sites, including Israel’s half dozen air and (reported) nuclear missile bases. Some of the Shihabs will be nuclear-tipped, perhaps even with multiple warheads. Others will be dupes, packed merely with biological or chemical agents, or old newspapers, to draw off or confuse Israel’s anti-missile batteries and Home Front Command units.
With a country the size and shape of Israel (an elongated 20,000 square kilometers), probably four or five hits will suffice: No more Israel. A million or more Israelis in the greater Tel Aviv, Haifa and Jerusalem areas will die immediately. Millions will be seriously irradiated. Israel has about seven million inhabitants. No Iranian will see or touch an Israeli. It will be quite impersonal.
Some of the dead will inevitably be Arab – 1.3 million of Israel’s citizens are Arab and another 3.5 million Arabs live in the semi-occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip. Jerusalem, Tel Aviv-Jaffa and Haifa have substantial Arab minorities. And there are large Arab concentrations immediately around Jerusalem (in Ramallah-Al Bireh, Bir Zeit, Bethlehem) and outside Haifa. Here, too, many will die, immediately or by and by.
It is doubtful whether such a mass killing of fellow Muslims will trouble Ahmadinejad and the mullahs. The Iranians don’t especially like Arabs, especially Sunni Arabs, with whom they have intermittently warred for centuries. And they have a special contempt for the (Sunni) Palestinians who, after all, though initially outnumbering the Jews by more than 10 to 1, failed during the long conflict to prevent them from establishing their state or taking over all of Palestine.
Besides, the Iranian leadership sees the destruction of Israel as a supreme divine command, as a herald of the second coming, and the Muslims dispatched collaterally as so many martyrs in the noble cause. Anyway, the Palestinians, many of them dispersed around the globe, will survive as a people, as will the greater Arab nation of which they are part. And surely, to be rid of the Jewish state, the Arabs should be willing to make some sacrifices. In the cosmic balance sheet, it will be worth the candle.
A QUESTION may nevertheless arise in the Iranian councils: What about Jerusalem? After all, the city contains Islam’s third holiest shrines (after Mecca and Medina), Al Aksa Mosque and the Mosque of Omar. But Ali Khamenei, the supreme spiritual leader, and Ahmadinejad most likely would reply much as they would to the wider question regarding the destruction and radioactive pollution of Palestine as a whole: The city, like the land, by God’s grace, in 20 or 50 years’ time, will recover. And it will be restored to Islam (and the Arabs). And the deeper pollution will have been eradicated.
[Continue reading @ The Jerusalem Post HERE]
A terse and terrifying moment in world history.
At this point ,I fully expect the forces of evil and the forces of Christianity to confront each other in a furious and final battle.’
We know how it ends.
A few people out there reading this . will muse , ‘ another doomsday fatalist”.
Well,of course, but I come from another generation that has watched the steady , undeniable progress of the world in our time reject decency and faith and embrace murder and madness. It has a magnificient and humbling message that is inescapable and foretold for generations.
When that time comes,where do you stand?
I noticed the European, and to a lesser extent the American, Left preparing for the destruction of Israel about six years ago. I got off the fence with regards to the Middle East and did a great deal of research into primary sources. Only when I discovered the extent of Jew hatred in Islam and their medieval ideas about the religious character of land did the dispute begin to make some sense. No thanks to the major media.
Certain people love to rail on about the “Jewish Lobby,” but it is powerless compared to the full-court-press ongoing against Israel in the world media.
Most recently, and ominously, all at once, every major wire service began noticing in their copy HAMAS wants to destroy Israel. At first I thought it was a surprising burst of honesty. Now I realize they’re mainstreaming the idea.
I stand with you, William Jones! So will millions of Americans when the time comes and ninnie liberals will be caught in the public guttings of those who think Allah is on their side.
History reads like the story long told. It started 100 years ago in the Middle East with the libration of Jerusalem from the Ottomans. It’s amazing how close it came to the scripture: red birds circled the city and the inhabitants fled in fear of them. (When Britian liberated Jerusalem following WW I, they painted their warplanes red so they could be seen in the desert. The Turks having never seen airplanes before fled the city.)
Laugh, but it is true.
This reads like a chess manual describing one of its “checkmate in 4 moves” scenarios. We Zionists have been discussing this seeming inevitability for as long as I recall and I’m reminded of Umberto Ecco’s “Foucault’s Pendulum” in which the characters accidentally create the conspiracy they intended only to investigate. This site’s first comment to Morris’ article is from a character who waits for his favorite book to end as it promised, but it is the real life of Israelis and various other non-culpable folk who will suffer or blink out of existence for the sake of the multiverse of Utopias launched on the tips of tongues, fingers and missiles.
I only wish I had the vision and comprehension it would take to avoid the doom Morris has cursed us with. Please G-d save Your nation, Your people and Your land although we are not worthy of Your mercy. Help us avoid this doom and all the other dooms that our enemies and allies imagine and plan. Destroy our enemies in our day and let us live in peace.
The essay made the point that the Palestinians, being dispersed throughout the world, will survive as a people. The same argument can be made that the Jews/Israelis are also dispersed throughout the world, and would survive as a people.
One line of thought the essay did not address was that Israel is likely to act “too soon,” but the results of that action are not automatically known as the article suggests. Arabs and Iranians respond to strength if nothing else. What if the results of an Israeli surgical attack was the implosion of the Mullah leadership in Iran and a transition to a more western- sympathetic government?
The essay doesn’t consider that America and Israel may act together and that the capability of Iran may be as much a ruse as Saddam’s WMD ruse. And, the capability to effectively knock out the Iranian program may be a lot better than represented in the essay. Does this mean we can underestimate the Iranians, no, but a hypothetical is only as good as its assumptions and considered derivations.
Let’s not ignor that many Western countries are progressively fighting back, with not everything being done on the media radar screen. Consider all the Islamic fascist video documentaries that are building and widening the publics general knowledge of what we are up against. Israel may have more core support being rebuilt than is evident from our “liberal” dominated MSM here and in Europe.
I’ve been thinking of this for a decade, maybe more. The European Jews were dispersed and required a vast industrial state and it’s machines to centralize and murder them with ovens, flame and heat.
Since then, the dispersed Jews have by themselves centralized and now industrial states can use their resources to build ovens the exist for but seconds over cites, making everything ash.
An odd string of history that the Nazi loving and supporting Muslims have picked up what the Nazis were made to put away. Is Israel but a large Warsaw ghetto?
Jewish history is much of fleeing from horror to another. Now it comes for then again, different but the same. And now of all times the Jewish leadership looks weak and many gleefully applaud Americas troubles. Even like an old crazy character of Shakespeare, Jimmy Carter appears, Americas weakest mewing president, telling one and all that the Arabs are the victims.
I don’t disagree with Mr. Morris’ genocidal pessimism, but he seems to be saying that since it is so hopeless, that the Jews just again do nothing and go to their extermination passively, like the first time around.
Two Holocausts in 70 years would be too much for Jews to handle; many if not most Jews (and I think even many religious ones) would consider the Covenant permanently broken and abandon the faith, leaving a few haredi in the world.
This is not the sort of scenario that the Jews should hand the world — Hitler and his heirs cannot be given such a total victory.
So Mr. Morris, what would you have Israel do? Realize that it is hopeless and negotiate a surrender to the Islamofascists and leave? Or just accept their doom, and make sure that they take the whole world down with them?
I pray that you are right, RodgerS. A male acquaintance of mine yesterday suddenly started railing against Israel, and he “has very good Jewish friends” was his caveat at the beginning. How they stole another people’s land….kill babies and children…etc, and the only reason they have the country is because of the Holocaust. I told him I didn’t agree but couldn’t discuss it now because my workplace is not the appropriate place. I was a little surprised but not a lot, as this town where I live is filled with people with whom reason flies out of their heads when the words Bush or Israel are spoken. And they always have “very good” Jewish friends. I think I will get a copy of “Time Immemorial” and slip it to him next time he comes in. I have hope that it may open his mind.
Tel Aviv, Beersheba, Haifa and Jerusalem?
Mecca, Medina, Karbalah, Qom and Teheran!
Israel needs to do what the US (and Soviet Union) did during the cold war. Point all its missles at its adversaries, put them on a hair trigger and let everyone know it.
Mutually assured destruction. The Israelis need to conduct tests from their submarines and make it very clear that Iran can do nothing to prevent devestating retaliation. And that the retaliation will happen. No “for what purpose” thinking, just pure revenge. The mullahs may not care, but a lot of other Persians want to live in peace as much as the Israelis. They need to know what price they will pay for not acting now.
For Israel to simply retaliate against Iran after the strike would be like blaming the halocaust on German prison guards. Israel should aim their missiles at Paris, Rome, Moscow, and other complicit centers of anti-semitism. Perhaps a “as we go, so do you” attitude by Israel would make the Europeans look a little harder for their misplaced spines.
Rodger S. is wrong, to put it simply. The Palestinians as a people did not exist until some time after 1948; prior to that they neither identified as such nor did anyone else do so. The only people who called themselves Palestinians were Jews.
The Palestinian people inarguably does exist. But its sole reason for being is hate, hate and nothing but. Five hundred years from now they will not exist and the only people who will remember them, ironically, are Jews.
They will be remembered as one of many peoples who tried to wipe out Jews and failed. They weren’t the first and they won’t be the last.
MAD won’t work because guys like Ahmadinejad are willing to die for their “cause.”
This scenario is scary because it is developing now, right before our very eyes. And the U.S. is afraid to take the fight to Tehran.
I am afraid we are losing the opportunity to prevent the events described here. Not enough political will to do the right thing.
johnoh, MAD worked between the Soviets and the Us. It will not work with the Iranians. Read how Amadman(delibrate mis-spelling) thinks the 12th Imam. Also consider this, Jerusalem is supposedly holy to Islam and yet Iran has targeted it. Plus the fact that millions in the PA will also be killed.
The rulers of Iran are not rational. MAD can only work when both sides are rational.
Carter has been channeling Ghandi’s advice to Jews before and during the Shoah: roll over and die. It is up to us as individuals to tell our leaders that NEVER AGAIN means just that.
Something must be done about Iran, sooner rather than later.
The Israeli nuclear deterrent is a triad – land, sea and air – and cannot be knocked out by a first strike. I think it is near time for Israel to come forward and reveal their capabilities. Rafsanjani once said that the lands of Islam would survive a nuclear exchange with Israel. They would not. Time they were enlightened on this point.
Cheer up folks – the future is not quite so hopeless.
I am amazed how few people realize Ahmadnijad’s obsession with Israel is for the sake of Iran’s domestic politics, and has very little to do with anti-semitism.
He is simply trying to outflank the clerics from the right, by being literally holier than thou.
Jockeying for power between the clerics and Ahmadjinad has led to capital flight from iran, as well as a brain drain of the best Iranian talent overseas.
The solution is simple: fully normalized, zero-customs, free trade relations between Iran and Israel, and much more importantly, Iran and the US.
A people that have the option of upward mobility will invariably choose it over Jehad.
And they will put Ahmadnijad out of power at best, and neuter him at worst.
Simple.
Oh.
For starters, Ahmadinejad is on his last legs in power in Tehran …
In 2008 we will choose a new President and Congress. As you consider who to vote for, put away all other concerns and ask only “what will this person do about Iran?” If it’s not already too late.
“I am amazed how few people realize Ahmadinejad’s obsession with Israel is for the sake of Iran’s domestic politics, and has very little to do with anti-semitism.”
I think many people do know that, Rahul. Unfortunately, that is exactly how Hitler got started – outflanking his political opposition for domestic consumption.
Also, it is more than likely that Ahmadinejad per se is not the problem. He may be in eclipse, as Bill Bradley writes, although there are contradictory reports. If they do turn out to be true, however, this may still have little to do ultimately with Iranian nuclear behavior. You can be sure someone as clued in as Benny Morris is well aware of the vicissitudes of Iranian politics… probably far more than most of us.
I don’t agree with Mr. Morris’ view that Israel will be hamstrung by the contemplation of what would follow pre-emption of Iran. Israel understands that not to pre-empt will lead to what Mr. Morris terms the second holocaust. The timing of such pre-emption is much sooner than Mr. Morris presumes. In fact, the warning has already been stated. Neither will Israel act alone, I am sure. Please read the excerpts and my commentary on Israeli FM Livni’s address, 12/11/06, below. Following these, I have provided a reductive analogy which via stark simplicity illustrates the situation.
Here is Israeli Foreign Minister Livni’s warning, couched in a more widely encompassing address to the EU on 12/11, which I excerpted here . The comments from the Israeli FM’s address I obtained from the Israeli Foreign Ministry website; (http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il/mfa/) . Note my interpretations, following the excerpts referring to the numbered highlights:
“……..The most recent war in Lebanon was not a conflict between Israel and Lebanon. Though the war took place in Lebanon, it was the case of a rogue state, Iran (1), and its well-armed proxy, Hizbullah, taking advantage of a weak state, Lebanon, in an attempt to impose their agenda on the region. In this challenge posed to us by the forces of extremism, Israel and the EU and the entire moderate community stand together.
……….This Iranian regime is a clear and present strategic threat to Israel (2), but it is no less a threat to the values of the EU, the international community, and the security of the region and the world as a whole. In fact, many countries in the Middle East – particularly the Arab/Sunni regimes – have an increasingly acute sense of the threat they face from a nuclear Iran. As a whole, the EU takes this threat seriously. Yet, the delaying tactics of the Iranian regime have bought them significant leverage, and time is of the essence. The breakthrough in their technological capability can happen sooner then we think.
……..One can still hear – from some capitals – hesitation and doubts. One can hear talk of the possible effect of oil prices, or the need to give more time – which, of course, the Iranian regime exploits only to move closer to nuclear weapon know-how and capability. There are some who perceive the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran as a single, isolated, and somehow manageable problem. They are deeply, and dangerously, mistaken (3).
……. If it becomes clear that the world is not going to seriously (4) confront this threat, this can lead to a domino effect. Some countries in the region may seek protection in nuclear weapons of their own (5). Others may feel compelled to appease or submit to the Iranian regime. In either case, we will face an unacceptably dangerous and volatile situation. …………”
My analysis:
Iran has indicated its view that Israel needs to be “wiped off the map”. Psy-ops, of a kind of fishing expedition to devalue the Jewish state has begun, in the form of the holocaust-denying meeting in Tehran earlier this month. The proxied Iranian attack on Israel by hezbollah, I submit, was in strategy also intended to devalue Israel to the world. The predictability of that conflict’s stalemate was calculable, as was the predictability that Israel would in fact respond with considerable force, resulting in finger-pointing by the press. Iran’s response to tepid sanctions is to accelerate in all due haste their production of enriched uranium.
1) Israel regards the Lebanese conflict this summer/fall as de-facto war with Iran, (if not Syria), by proxy; 2) the language “clear and present threat….” is an indication of the severity of Israel’s assessment–this phrase is precedent to action by states, and as such illuminates Israel’s posture, as could only be expected of any sober and sane sovereignty facing these facts; 3) a warning to all who think otherwise, that indeed Iran threatens the world, not just Israel; 4) the word ‘seriously’ means that only serious intervention, not milque-toast sanctions, will stave off the imminence that 5) ‘some’ countries may seek protection in nuclear weapons of their own—on face-value a general warning, but I submit, what is meant by ‘some countries’ is Israel. Now, consider (3) again: ‘some …..perceive the prospect of a nuclear armed Iran as a single…..isolated and maneageable problem…..’ with my interpretation of (5), and what emerges? Israel is giving notice that, absent serious de-fanging of Iran, and soon, by the rest of us, she will in fact do it herself. She herself is the mentioned complication to the ‘isolated’ view of Iran’s threats. That is the subtext of Livni’s message on 12/11. Note that this message and skillful subtext was delivered 13 days before Iran thumbed its nose at the ‘sanctions’. The clock is ticking. Here, she in fact has given notice. Despite being lost to the mainstream media, it is certain that it was not lost on allies nor on the target.
Here is a reduction analogy which I have written to put things in focus on a personal basis:
Israel by analogy, is a soldier on our lawn. The soldier is chained to a stake, but is fully, and modernly armed, her weapons locked and loaded. The soldier has her family by her side, and there we are on the sidelines, the rest of us, the nations, spectating. We ourselves are armed . At a reasonable distance on the lawn, is another soldier, by analogy, Iran. He has five ammunition magazines fitting the AK 47 which lies dissassembled at his feet. He has a high capacity reloading bench, with bullets, powder, primers, cases enough to fill the magazines with rounds once they are assembled. He has vowed to kill the other soldier and her family, to all of us assembled. The sooner the better.
He is not acting alone, as his notion of God, he informs himself, requires that the Israeli and her family, be killed, or walk off the lawn. Oddly, we know, for he has told us, that all the infidels of the world must similarly be destroyed. He considers most of us infidels. Some of us pray to the same God as he, although the rest of us hopefully believe these not to espouse the same designs.
Also oddly, he says his purpose with the ammunition, not explaining the rifle parts, is to use the gunpowder to fuel his cooking fire. This is strange, because he has two weeks of dry hardwood and kindling piled behind him.
So, here we all are, the nations, bile rising in our throats; it is not a nice afternoon. The soldier with the family begs us to intervene, especially since we are ourselves also mostly infidels, as is she, and as such, also targets. We certainly agree, and we are quite stern. We raise our voices and gesticulate, admonishing, threatening as a group, for we have voted. However, it is not etiquette for us to step on the lawn. Despite us, and unbelievably-!!!-the soldier begins to build ammunition.
In a very short while, the soldier with her family, chained to the lawn, must act. Of course, we trust that she won’t, as it would be against the rules.
Israel needs to make it very, very clear to all the islamofascists that while Islam might survive a nuclear exchange with Israel, Mecca and Medina would absolutely, without fail, be completely and utterly annihilated.
And then islam would, to borrow a phrase from Al Gore and Hiliary, re-invent itself.
Hmmmm, remind me now… who has a nuclear aresenal in the mideast? When did the Palestinians vote to give their land to the Zionists and that without compensation? When has the US condemned Israel’s ethnic cleansing? Or it’s terrorist founders? Why was Israel a friend to racist South Africa until the bitter end, selling the apartheid government arms to kill its Black citizens? Why has Israel murdered more Americans than the Palestinians have? Why does continued Israeli espionage threaten the security of the United States? Is it ironic that Israel has built its own ghettoes and concentration camps and passed its own Nuremburg laws? Is all of this OK just because Israel has a Star of David on its flag and not a swastika?
Oh, for God’s sake. It’s only Benny Morris. The same guy whose anti-Israeli historical fabrications were exposed by Efraim Karsh (http://www.meforum.org/article/466), and who now seems to jump the bandwagon in the opposite direction. No reason to take him now any more seriously than before.
Nine cruise missiles, with conventional explosives, can bring the mullahs and Revolutionary Guards in Iran down.
Iran is a net importer of refined gasoline and diesel fuel.There are only nine refineries in Iran and they are operating at 130% capacity, degrading daily. The Iranian government uses oil revenue to import refined fuel and also subsidizes retail prices of 34 cents for a gallon of gasoline. Iranian domestic demand continues to grow at such a rate that a recent report predicts that Iran’s income from exporting oil will end by 2015.
Of all strategic targets, refineries are perhaps the easiest to put out of commission with a minimal use of explosives. To paraphrase John Candy’s Billy Sol Hurok, gasoline refineries blow up good, blow up real good!
Taking out the Iranian refineries now would collapse the regime. It would be nice if the US Navy cooperated and established a naval blockade of incoming fuel, as well as detail some Navy seals to commandeer Iranian oil platforms (Much of Iran’s oil is offshore), that would hasten the demise of the mullahs and their puppets like Iranian president Eichmanthenutjob. However, simply taking out the refineries now, before they have the nuclear bombs and the delivery systems, will collapse the regime.
Israel’s subs have conventional cruise missile capability.
While Iran’s refineries are outside the operational range of conventionally tanked F-16s, Israel does own three KC-135 707 based tankers and three KC-130 turboprop tankers, and they are said to be developing drone tankers.
By all means pray. P. Ami’s prayer above is a good start. But take out the refineries now.
President Bush’s wilsonian foreign policy aimed at making the world safe for democracy is based upon false premises. Governments of democratically elected fanatics are willing to commit mass murder and are not acceptable neighbors. Trying to build a pluralistic democracy in Iraq has been ineffective. When confronted by an enemy who vows to murder you in your sleep, don’t worry about their immediate welfare, they voted for the government they enjoy. Instead, carry the war to them until you have rendered them incapable of further attacks against you.
As the article suggests, Israel is probably headed for a nuclear war with Iran. There is no question that they will have to act preemtively, what other choice is there? They are facing madmen who won’t negotiate and who will gladly kill everyone. At the moment all they lack is the means. We all know what happened in Europe and history cannot be allowed to repeat itself. The only question is whether it could be or should be attempted first with conventional weapons. I’m not enough of a military strategist to know if that could be effective.
So soon you forget MAD? Mutual Assured Destruction the much derided and vilified policy that held off nuclear annilation of both the USA and the Soviet Union for 40 years. the mutual belief in MAD was the only thing that kept two nuclear super-powers from allowing small brush fire wars to escalate into a global halocaust. A halocaust not just for God’s Chosen People for for all of God’s people.
The essence of MAD was simple; both sides held to the principle that it is possible to defeat us but we will make damn sure that no one lives to enjoy the victory. The certain knowledge that this is true no matter the outcome any nuclear exchange is what held the USSR and the USA from each others throats for a double generation.
If you need a simpler and older reason to believe Israel wil strike back consider this; The Israeli government may not be able to raise the gonads to prevent Israel from being destroyed by a nuclear sneak attack but I guarantee the Israeli Military make damned sure slay themselves a even greater cohort of the attackers to serve an ghostly honor guard for whatever remains of God’s Chosen People and the Promised Land.
Otpu
So soon you forget MAD? Mutual Assured Destruction the much derided and vilified policy that held off nuclear annilation of both the USA and the Soviet Union for 40 years. the mutual belief in MAD was the only thing that kept two nuclear super-powers from allowing small brush fire wars to escalate into a global halocaust. A halocaust not just for God’s Chosen People for for all of God’s people.
The essence of MAD was simple; both sides held to the principle that it is possible to defeat us but we will make damn sure that no one lives to enjoy the victory. The certain knowledge that this is true no matter the outcome any nuclear exchange is what held the USSR and the USA from each others throats for a double generation.
If you need a simpler and older reason to believe Israel wil strike back consider this; The Israeli government may not be able to raise the gonads to prevent Israel from being destroyed by a nuclear sneak attack but I guarantee the Israeli Military make damned sure slay themselves a cohort of the attackers to serve an ghostly honor guard for the whatever remains.
Otpu
Rahul,
It’s better that extreme Jew hatred is merely a very popular position with implications of being pious? Maybe you could flesh that one out for us.
I doubt that Iran will ever use nuclear weapons, as to do so would bring the end of Iran as a functioning nation-state. As soon as the missiles were detected leaving their launchers, the Israeli nuclear arsenal would be activated – from submarines, from the air and also from within Israel itself. This is against the interests of the mullahs and they will therefore not choose this path. Therefore I can’t agree that there will be a sudden attack as described in the article.
I also think we need to consider the difficulty facing Iran in the luanch of such an attack. Launch would be immediately identified; retailiation can come from all around them, unannounced; the prospects of a hit on Israel becomes more difficult by the day, with the advances of anti-missile defence technology.
The only danger is that the decision-makers in Teheran start to use irrational variables (ie that they are protected by Allah). I don’t see this yet. Behind the bluster, I still see self-serving, rational brinkmanship – based on the advance of the Iranian nation-state.
The current American strategy of sanctions (prices – esp food – in Iran are starting to roar after the recent sanctions), fuelling popular discontent; combined with an invisible coercive ‘war’ (hitting Iranian networks in Iraq, as well as covert action in Iran) will eventually frustrate the mullah’s regional ambitions. They are not as strong as they appear and are slowly weakening in power, despite their self-promotion.
Hello Alex,
The essay author used the term “Palestinian” in the essay and, anyway, the term is of common use regardless of what you state is the reason for its use. Some tangent you got off on here arguing I’m wrong to use the term in replying to the author’s comments.
Hi Narniaman,
I’m not sure the threat of loss of “Mecca and Medina” would deter them anymore than any other threat, if a threat on their lives doesn’t. We are dealing with people who value death more than life and jihad is their vehicle to eternal happiness.
It can best be understood in a pathological context, which goes beyond the religious context its surrounded by.
Side stepping to some other comments…
That’s why MAD is not a credible deterent and pre-emption is the most rational approach IF one accepts the premise that Ahma will use a nuke on Israel if he has it.
The failure to accept that premise would indicate that a person suffers some combination of naivety and ignorance. Failure to take action, having accepted the premise, suggests ones survival instints have failed.
Often the former, rather than the later, seems operative. Which helps explain the disconnect we have right here at home in Rivercity. Sleep on Cindy S.
Hi Jaimie t :
1) its who will use nukes and how is the issue. Remember??? Guns don’t kill its the finger on the trigger. Or, if you like, the hand on the scimitar.
2) You do know the “Palestinians,” or whatever are just one of many “owners” with claims in a long list of ownership changes going back, like way way back?
3) “ethnic cleansing” seems a stretch of words there. How about the other side Jew “extermination?”
4) onward…must I go on?
Thanks for the Jimmy Carter moments.
And Teddy, will go to the Well of the Senate, and in his best imitation of statesmanship, blame this Second Holocaust on George Bush!
Oy Vey! What’s with the “EndTimes” ChickenLittle Schtick?
Good Grief.
Have you noticed? All MEN can birth is WAR or the THOUGHT of war or the FEAR of war or the NEED for war.
MEN will “whatif” us all into oblivion BY YOUR OWN EGO-BOUND THOUGHTS AND DEEDS.
Quit whining. Start DEMANDING peace.
PRIDEFUL EGO WILL BE THE DOWNFALL OF ALL MALE-ORGANIZED RELIGIONS BENT ON HAVING IT ALL “MY WAY OR THE HIWAY”.
When an old die-hard Labor Party revisionist historian “gets it” one wonders who is left. Oh, that’s right: Jimmy Carter.
Ahmadinejad is a true believer. Which means that, if the weapons are in the arsenal, and he can get control of them, he will use them on Israel.
The solution is simple and is one that the Israelis have used before. Pre-emptive strike on Iranian nuclear sites, missile plants, oil refineries, whatever else is of value to shut the country down.
Once the birds are in the air, it will be too late to act. Even if Israel’s military capability could survive an Iranian first strike, the projected population losses are too immense to even contemplate taking them. Damned few options, none good, and all require striking Iran soon.
regards the comment left by the effervescent “mommadona”:
Is there nothing in your life that you would fight to defend?
It appears not. That is not peace. That is surrender. That is dhimmitude.
In most places on this earth, moral outrage is trumped by a few well placed AK-47 rounds. And your mother won’t be able to talk the bad man out of it either.
Encountering one dimensional trolls is an experience no one should miss. Thanks for sharing.
It will never happen like this. The enemies of Israel have always worked and acted up close. They will want to see the fear in the eyes of Jews, rape Jewish women, enslave Jewish children, they will want to wash there hand in Jewish blood and make speeches from Temple Mount, as it is covered in a sea of green. Israel should be very careful with treaties on the borders of the country. Iran already controls Lebanon’s south; wait until they are more involved in the Golan. The time is near. May G_d Redeem Israel, O G_d, out of all his troubles. Psalm 25:22,
Psalm 18:2, Psalm 94:14, Psalm 121:4, Psalm 20:1, Psalm 7:10
c’mon guys … the spice must flow. A limited nuclear exchange in the middle-east will collapse the global economy. Billions will die. No-one’s going to let it happen. No matter how much they really, really want to kill jews.
Time, and well past time, to grow mushrooms in Tehran. And Mecca. And Medina. And Qom. And Islamabad, Khartoum, Dacca, Kuala Lumpur, Qatar, Riyadh, Baghdad, Aden, Kabul…
Morris rules out a pre-emptive nuclear strike to take out Iranian nuclear capabilities because this would kill a huge number of Iranians. But is this necessarily the case? Aren’t there relatively small earth-penetrating nuclear weapons that can destroy deeply buried facilities without doing much damage on the surface? It would still be an unpopular move to use such devices pre-emptively, and a bad precedent to use any kind of nuclear weapon, but the Israeli government ought to be prepared to do so in this case.
Morris seems to assert that the remnants of Israel would not retaliate. That is both unlikely and a dangerous position to push forward.
MAD may not be perfect, and in this case may or may not fail, but even after an attack the Israeli military would owe it to its fallen citizens and Jews and other civilized people around the world to devastate, utterly devastate, those who comitted the act, all they hold dear, and those who enabled them (hear that, Moscow?).
It is also not clear how the world would react to an Iranian nuking of Israel. The use of nukes would be so shocking to those who tend to be leftish and European that it might very well cause them to actually advocate the use of violence – war – against Iran and its allies (although having European capitals in nuclear missile range of Iran would probably stop that).
We cannot read the minds of the Iranian leaders. They may be bluffing – for local consumption. There are strong factions that are more interested in money than war. But history tells us not to ignore tyrants when they make threats.
Sadly, we live in interesting times.
It is only Israel in the Mid-East that has nuclear weapons, supplied by the only country to use them on a civilian population – the USA.
What are they so afraid of? If the facts supporting the ‘holocaust’ claims are there, then laws like this are truly unnecessary, punitive actions against free-inquiry. Facts need no laws to support them. Facts can withstand examination time and again. Throughout history, from Galileo to Zundel, Darwin, Irving, Faurisson and Rudolf, only lies and liars have resorted to the courts & the legislature to enforce adherence to dogma.
People confuse being told something six million times with knowing something. They are not the same. The average man knows’ the Holocaust exists because: 1) everybody uses the term; 2) he has seen photos of stacked bodies; 3) he has read Anne Frank’s book; 4) authorities agree that questioning any of this is ‘hate.’ In other words, the average man believes in the Holocaust for no logical reason, but out of simple mammalian conformity.
‘Holocaust’ is no ordinary noun. Rather, it is a loaded gun leveled at the head of the West and the rest. Give them their money and their pride of place or get your head and reputation blown off. You will notice that never, ever does debate in the captive media condescend to deconstruct the Zionist Privilege embodied in and sanctified by the designer label ‘Holocaust.’ Worship the Zionists and submit to their demands – that is what the term Holocaust means.
A demand for special privilege protected by a shell of pseudo-history; that is an objective description of the term. The heart of the ‘Holocaust,’ taking at face value the term’s pretension to historical designation, is the claim that six million Jews were murdered by Nazi Germany, most of them by gassing. The evidence for the gassing is never discussed. Photos of crematories and bodies stacked like cord wood are shown. No context or explanation of the reason for showing them is given. The connection is to be assumed. But never is any ordinary evidence, let alone proof, of the gassing allegation advanced. That Jews were gassed is treated as though it were already proved and therefore unquestionable, save by the depraved. Thus, the practical job of the media and the well intentioned everyman is to smear and ostracize anybody who argues against settled truth. We all know that Jews were gassed, and that those who say otherwise are deniers driven by hate.
We are told repeatedly that the ‘Holocaust’ is both the worst thing that ever happened and the best documented thing in human history. We are to take these assertions on authority, since no genuine debate is allowed.
There are men who can prove the ‘Holocaust’ is a Big Lie.
You can find them in jail.
Their imprisonment is scarcely mentioned in the mass media. Their imprisonment goes unlamented by the mass columnists. To discuss these men and their work would endanger the Prop-sphere the media construct. They must disappear.
But we know, mass media. And we’re not going away. We’re getting louder and stronger. And there’s nothing you can do to stop us.