The Rest of the World Has Gone Mad — Why Shouldn’t Egypt?
“The world has gone mad today, and good’s bad today.”
— Cole Porter, “Anything Goes”
Mad indeed. But let’s limit ourselves to two points.
First, the White House is now calling for a smooth transition in Egypt. In other words, after one week of not-so-gigantic demonstrations, President Barack Obama is openly calling for the downfall of a 60-year-old regime that has been allied with the United States for about 40 years in the most important country in the Arab world.
It’s one thing for the president to urge moderation, no violence, and efforts at compromise. It’s another to push the Egyptian government out of power and possibly usher in a new era of catastrophe for the Middle East and the world.
Couldn’t the U.S. government wait a bit and see what happens? Couldn’t it express public support for the regime and privately urge reforms and a change of personnel? Doesn’t it have any sense of the danger of anarchy or anti-American forces coming to power in Egypt?
Remember, it doesn’t have to be an Islamist regime. It can be an Islamist-radical nationalist government with a moderate front man. The outcome could make Iran’s revolution look like a picnic. While that last sentence is perhaps excessively alarmist, it is intended to wake up people from this daydream of Egypt becoming a stable, moderate, democratic state given the actual situation in Egypt.
Second, naivete has reached epidemic proportions. What sets me off here as an example is the Washington Post which, under the headline “Muslim Brotherhood says it is only a minor player in Egyptian protests,” tells us about this group. Of course, it says it is not important. Just as the Big Bad Wolf wore granny’s clothes — “All the better to eat you.” Why should the Western media pick up the revolutionary Islamists’ disinformation themes?
In fact, and I’m not exaggerating, the article tells us that the Brotherhood is no threat and accuses it of wimping out:
It is not the organization of radical jihadists that it is sometimes made out to be. But its caution in dealing with Mubarak has made it appear recently that it is more concerned with protecting itself than with improving the nation.
The article tells us two historical facts about the Brotherhood: it was inspired by the YMCA and was brutally repressed by the Egyptian government in the 1950s.
Sigh. And what does it leave out? That it seeks to transform Egypt into an Islamist state, reduce the Christians to third-class citizens (they are already second-class citizens), do away with rights for women, impose sharia law, drive America out of the Middle East, and wage a war of genocide against Israel.
Oh, and then there’s the history of the Brotherhood: it was financed by the Nazis from the 1930s on and tried to deliver Egypt to them in World War Two, used the Nazi weapons it had been given in 1942 to try to destroy Israel in the 1948 war, had a terrorist wing and assassinated a number of officials including an Egyptian prime minister, was repressed because it tried to kill President Gamal Abdel Nasser, supports terrorism not only against Israel but also U.S. forces in Iraq, and has a current leader who calls for a jihad against the United States.
Has anyone in the Western media or governments ever read anything from Brotherhood leaders’ speeches or publications? Apparently not. In fact, regarding the media I have seen zero evidence that it has any idea what these people say every day.
Incredible. Egyptians take to the streets to protest a tyrant and his corrupt dictatorial rule, thereby shattering the myth that Arabs are inherently undemocratic, and instead of cheering on the pro-democracy forces all the so-called “realists” can do is hyperventilate about the Muslim Brotherhood. This is a movement that got 20% of the vote in an election where less than 25% of the population voted!
Thankfully the Reagan administration didn’t listen to such counsel when it came to the Philippines, South Korea, and Chile, all of which faced large Communist movements either inside or right beside their countries. The answer to movements that threaten to hijack transitions to democracy is not to throw our lot in with the dictators but to more actively assist the democrats and ensure the army remains as the guarantor of the transition.
Buck up, people! There is nothing inevitable about a repeat of Iran 1979 as opposed to a repeat of the democratic revolutions of the 1980s. Historical analogies are not scientific laws.
Wish I could share your optimism that this is not a replay of Iran and 1979 but the odds seem to be against it. Nature abhors a vacuum and when Murbarak goes the void will be wide and deep. ElBaradei might appear to western elite opinion to be a moderate reformer but that’s just the point. Everyone in this situation is going to be playing cuttthroat political hardball and the groups with the most drive and focus, such as the Brotherhood and hard-core Islamists, are going to win. ElBaradei, despite his current international chic, will probably be a transitional figure to be replaced in short order by a, shall we say, more “vigorous” regime.
Numbers don’t matter. History teaches us that in a chaotic situation even a small group can sieze the moment and impose their agenda on an angry mass. In Russia in 1917 the Bolshevicks were numerically tiny but Lenin toppled Kerensky and the Provisional government within a few months. I hope this is just a rerun of the Phillipines but I doubt it.
Parvus, Heres a reality check-
From the last 2010 Pew Research poll of Egypt-
Stoning for those who commit adultery, 82% in favor.
Whippings and cutting off hands for robbery, 77% in favor.
Death penalty for converting from Islam, 84% in favor .
Support for “modernizers” , 27% in favor.
Support for “Islamists “, 59% in favor.
The Muslim Brotherhood won 60% of all contested seats in the last Egyptian election.
Sobering facts that optimists should not ignore.
Good Menachen,the poll on Egypt show the mad in progress.
“If you want to know which way to go in the future, you have to know which path you took in the past and where you stepped in a gopher hole along the way.”
Ronald Reagan
That’s a nice pseudonim, “Parvus”. As I remember it’s the name of a capitalist who funded Lenin and the communist revolution in Russia and everywhere else.
Tell me it’s not a coincedence.
Spoken like a true “useful idiot”.
“…and instead of cheering on the pro-democracy forces all the so-called “realists” can do is hyperventilate about the Muslim Brotherhood.”
The problem with your take on this is that these are not democracy minded forces. It is true that they are driven in part by the current regime’s lack of democracy and abysmal economic failures. But it is difficult to see how this is anything but a mob of angry Islamic males whose passions have been whipped up by those wanting to establish a theocracy.
If more than 50% of a society wants and gets religious intolerance, laws as established by a 1300 year old book and subjugation of women, I think we need to use a term other than democracy to describe them.
The Muslim Brotherhood is the only organized political opponent. About 82% of the people favor stoning to death adulterers, something like 60% favor cutting hands of thieves, 40% of the population of Egypt is uneducated and poor. If it falls to an Islamic state, it will be ruled by another tyrant, and they will reinstate stoning of adulterers and rape victims, cutting of hands, women may not be able to work-most oil goes through the Suez Canal so oil may have to travel 6,000 miles more raising prices, & Egypt will go to war against Israel & the US. My well educated Egyptian friend said the people don’t know what they are protesting & they don’t really know who is behind the protests.
Mohammed ElBaradei emerged as leader in Egyptian revolution-he has been recognized by secularists & Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, the primary opposition force, as a voice to call for Mubarak to step down. “It would be a mistake to infer that he in fact holds the power,” Aronson says. “You’ve got other institutions that will remain more powerful-the army & military & Islamists.” said Geoffrey Aronson, research director at the Foundation for Middle East Peace.
Parvus, your definition of democracy is unexamined and absurd. Democracy is not just going to the ballot box. Without a culture of respect for and committment to liberal ideals of individual liberty and rights of expression, then all democracy amounts to is the scenario of two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner. In the case of Islamic cultures, Islam a priori imposes radically different concepts that will always be at odds with such ideals. Why? Because Islam is more than just a religion, it is an entire political ideology, and an illiberal one at that. Must we repeatedly re-hash the naive argument that there is something called “moderate” Islam, just waiting around to fill the void? There has never been a sect called “moderate”, instead only Sunni and Shia, with some minor exceptions (Sufi, Salafi), all of which do not reject sharia and jihad. It is therefore impossible for a geopolitical entity to be simultaneously both Islamic and democratic. It is absurd to expect otherwise, and those so-called analysts who base their recommendations on some kind of democratic rule in Egypt are precisely the ones who are continually surprised when an Islamic tyranny follows closely on the heels of overthrowing a strongman. Progressives and neoconservatives such as Bush are one and the same… they think democracy is just some abstract idea that can be magically transported from culture to culture. But neither democracy nor America can exist as an abstract… instead, they are concrete entities that depend on a definitive culture, religion, and morality, all of which are being progressively destroyed by the left. It seems that only a world war with a revived Islamic caliphate will be enough to finally convince progressives and their useful idiots of the immeasurable malevolent harm they are doing.
Iran was 1979 not 1978.
This was the expressed intent of invading Iraq; to install democracy by force and lead the way for other middle eastern countries to throw off tyrant leaders and choose their own path.
Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
Yes, Obama’s great instinct to create power vacuums is worth bewailing. But i think we have to recognize that the writing is on the wall for the cold war dictatorships of the Arab world. They are deeply resented and it really isn’t that difficult to topple them when enough people are willing to take the risk and move to the streets. We don’t have to like it, but we should accept that Islamist movements are so far the most popular response of Muslim societies to the challenges of modernity. No sane person wants the Muslim Brotherhood but we do have to start grappling with the likelihood of their ascendance and try to frame it in terms that serve a winning strategy for the conflict to come. If Obama did that intelligently, which i rather doubt, i would think Rubin’s wail here to be unjustified. Barry seems to think there could be lots of life left in the present Egyptian regime. Let’s see him try to make a convincing case. I doubt he can. Sure, it could last a few more years, but people have rightly been predicting the downfall of Mubarak, and the rise of the MB, for years. Our leading analysists should seem more prepared, and less shocked, by what is happening.
Good. The voice of sanity.
I give Egpyt 4 weeks till the Muslim Brotherhood takes over one way or another. Who wants to cover my bet???
You’re on. The crowds are not that big for Cairo, the flow of information can be used against them by those who want to expose them, the Army is still run by the upper class, and ruling thru a front man is more the style of the Islamists.
It should at least six months for the Brotherhood to take over.
Egypt as it stood/stands is a no-win situation for Obama or any other president.
He can:
1) Do the American thing, and support the demonstrators, as Obama has apparently done and be bashed about for indirectly supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and a future Sharia law for all of Egypt and the loss one of America’s few friends in middle east.
2) He can say nothing! He can encourage Mubarak to go easy on the protesters while calling for fewer human rights violations, government and economic reforms and calm among the people and get bashed from all sides for, basically, not taking a side.
Or
3) He can come out in support of long time American friend and ally, Hosni Mubarak, the man who has been dictator of Egypt for 30 years. A man who has been oppressing his people, denying them their basic human rights BUT… Egypt is the only middle eastern nation to recognize the state Israel’s right to exist. Egypt, under Mubarak, was, at least, not hostile, if not downright friendly, towards Israel.
There is simply no good option.
Maybe now the Christians in the Middle East will have some sympathy for the Jews in Europe circa 1935. History does seem to repeat itself with different characters.
Obama will do nothing but wait for the dust to settle and then proclaim his support for the NEW and forward thinking government. A year later almost all of the Copts will have migrated elsewhere or be among the “missing”.Nice reset button Barry!
Aside from the Pope,not one western world leader has condemed the persecution of Christians in the Middle East. We live in a culturally corrupt time.
Knowing the kind of people who constitute the “media,” it’s highly likely that most members of the media know little, if anything, about the Muslim Brotherhood. Many probably hadn’t heard of them until the events of the last several days. The bulk of their information about the Brotherhood probably comes from whatever PR firm/publicist the Brotherhood employs.
Although there are exceptions, as a rule, people in the media are young (Gen Xers like Jake Tapper and David Gregory are the graybeards who hold senior positions/news directorships; most journ-o-lists are Gen Y/millennials), not particularly smart, and not particularly well informed. They’re also reflexively left-leaning (obviously), and most only associate with other ill-informed, smug and reflexively left-leaning people.
Good times.
Nice summary. Sadly true.
It’s not just Egypt being pushed into the chasm of course, it’s us Israelis, as Rubin makes clear. When are we Israelis going to call out Obama and his govt for the morons that they are, helping to pave the way for another war, even dare I say it another Holocaust? Oh wait we don’t dare offend Obama, in case he uh hates us and does nothing about Egypt falling into the hands of Islamists gag gag.
If we had any backbone ourselves we would be protesting outside the US embassy right now. The embassy is in TA of course, not Jerusalem, which itself doesn’t say much for the US but anyhow… No we would never dare hold widespread protests against the dimwit in the White House, even as Obama fiddles while the Middle-East burns. Maybe Rubin it’s all what Obama wants deep down, to punish us for building homes in our own state and not handing over the West Bank lock stock and barrel to Muslim fanatics. ‘Let the Jews suffer, let ‘em bleed’ is what Obama may well be thinking, and if the Copts and secularists/moderates in Egypt have to pay a price as collatoral damage, so be it.
“When are we Israelis going to call out Obama and his govt for the morons that they are, helping to pave the way for another war, even dare I say it another Holocaust?”
If memory serves it started immediately after the election of the Anointed One with the posters on the walls of Israel depicting Him as Arafat with the text to match.
Most Israelis still were for Him, and 78 per cent of American Jews voted for the One. I have no doubt Jews will vote for Him in 2012 again.
Tim, the Israelis always saw through Obama and overwhelming supported McCain. As for American Jews; 40% would vote for Hitler if he ran as a liberal Democrat.
Obama is clearly pro Muslim…he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia when he was a child. He has vowed as our President to make sure nobody criticizes Islam…however he is supposed to protect our Constitution and free speech.
Mr. Rubin,
while I find your analysis spot on; you’re asking for the impossible. The current administration is not only incompetent, but completelt clueless.
While the Green Revolution in Iran was no use to the White House, the current chaos in Eqypt is, due to the proximity of Israel.
The Muslim Brotherhood is supported by the White House, and it has been plotting for quite some time behind the scene.
The current administration’s knowledge of history is zilch, nada; whith that come the current flaky, and destructive behavior. The White House finds no problem in lying to the american people, what makes one think that they would have an ounce of honesty and integrity concerning Egypt?
This will not end well!
Barry, as an inveterate and invaluable reader of the tea leaves in the Middle East, you are precisely correct in sounding the loudest alarm bells possible over the (purposeful?) misreading of the unfolding events, at least from Washington insiders.
Instead of a wait and see, more tempered public response, (while operating forcefully behind the scenes for certain reforms) the clueless and mendacious crew in Washington have already ! pushed Mubarak under the bus.
Nary a thought(from the clueless jumping on the bandwagon, but NOT from the main players in Washington who do know the MB intimately) is given as to who will take his place,just as long as they ‘heart’ with the street.Pretending said street are a semblance of Jeffersonian democrats, no one cares-or knows-that poll after poll showed their preference-70% want Islamic rule!!
In effect, Obama and crew are lending cover to a takeover by the Muslim Brotherhood,thus pushing the region into major upheaval and war in the near future.
Significantly, Obama stayed mum for days-couldn’t even take time from his shout out to the American Indians he was supporting-while Iranian freedom fighters were squashed as they attempted to get the boot of the regime off their necks.Now, color me crazy, but aren’t Iranian grievances as important as Egyptian ones?
This disparity must be explored by strategists like Barry Rubin because the answer to the above will explain where Obama is headed and why.
Moreover, it is more than likely that the so called spontaneous eruptions were not so spontaneous.Is it possible that-for reasons unknown-the CIA was tasked to marshal the MB to erupt the street. There is speculation that Egyptian activist assets have been gaining training in the US for such a scenario.Game theory, anyone?
Again, what is their game plan, both in Washington & their nexus to the MB?
By the way, lest anyone believes that the Brothers are NOT influential in Washington power circles they would do well to reconsider.Paul Sperry’s, ‘Infiltration’, laid out in grave detail the implantation of MB assets in ALL the power levers, from the White House, Congress, Pentagon and everything in between.Looks like Sperry’s subject matter are now reaping their rewards-the Brothers are being koshered as a benign, social service group as events unfold, sort of like the Kiwanis & Rotary clubs.
Coincidence?Hardly,
The “Muslim Brotherhood” is a passive political front organization for “Radical Islamists” they have sold their message of peaceful coexistence to most of the gullible world (including as you mention, the “White House.) I offer for consideration a paragraph from “The Middle East Forum” dated 2005 who after outlinging how Germany had been infultrated made this statement:
“What most European politicians fail to understand is that by meeting with radical organizations, they empower them and grant the Muslim Brotherhood legitimacy. There is an implied endorsement to any meeting, especially when the same politicians ignore moderate voices that do not have access to generous Saudi funding. This creates a self-perpetuating cycle of radicalization because the greater the political legitimacy of the Muslim Brotherhood, the more opportunity it and its proxy groups will have to influence and radicalize various European Muslim communities. The ultimate irony is that Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna dreamed of spreading Islamism throughout Egypt and the Muslim world. He would have never dreamed that his vision might also become a reality in Europe.
The complete article may be found here:http://www.meforum.org/687/the-muslim-brotherhoods-conquest-of-europe
I agreee not a coincidence and also not incompetatnce- the O plan is working 100%- get ridof ISRAEL and no more prolems right? that is the meme they sell
Islamicize the world so we can all appreciate the most beutiful sound in the world (muezzin’s call )
cmon people it’s so obvious- why he said nothing tothe Greens iniran- that would have removed ISLAM
IN egypt — Obama can spread the love and peace of ISlAm-
he so obviously admires
“It can be an Islamist-radical nationalist government with a moderate front man. The outcome could make Iran’s revolution look like a picnic.”
A moderate front man, you mean like El Baradei? There is nothing “moderate” about that nut. He’s a stooge for the Iranians and despises the United States. I’m really fearful that Obama and Clinton don’t have a clue as to what to do with Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood also spawned such characters as Ayman al Zawahiri, an Egyptian and Osama bin Laden’s No. 2 man, and Mohamed Atta, the Egyptian leader of the 9/11 attack. Nice guys, right? This is going to end up being a replay of the Iranian revolution in 1979 on steroids, which only makes sense because we still have Jimmy Carter in the White House, only he comes from Chicago and not Georgia. This is an incredibly dangerous situation that is rapidly spinning out of control, and Obama is way out of his league here.
It’s also interesting how Obama is pushing for reforms and on the “side of the people” in Egypt, but it took him about 10 days to respond to the protests in Iran after the 2009 elections. I guess it’s a lot easier to force an ally like Mubarak out of office than it is a bunch of mullahs in Iran. After this mess, who really would want to be our ally?
This article from WND suggests our State Dept. may have been more than just spectator in this uprising (who would have guessed, knowing BHO’s
leanings)
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=258405
We have the perfect example of “Community Organizing” on an international basis. Hate raised to a new level. A virtual sinkhole . . . whatever goes in . . . will not come out. The goal of community organizing is . . . POWER TO THE PEOPLE . . . doesn’t BROTHERHOOD sound a lot like Neighborhood? Egypt is screwed.
Don’t expect this ham handed group of liberals in the Obama administration to actually do something constructive here-particularly when it is not in their little red book of rules for radicals. It is interesting to watch this unfold and to see Hillary and her group twisting in the wind, totally clueless. This is also the MSM as they await more coherent talking points from these twits. No incoming there either.
Maybe the MSM might look at some of the video coming from Egypt and perhaps observe that women are well represented in every one. Didn’t you see that too. Gosh there must a 60% ratio of women in every protest! Obviously I jest but this is a window to the future for this pathetic society. Poor, no education, brain washed, radicalized and now a pawn in the ever marching forward jihad of the Muslim Brotherhood. The proper metaphor is most likely post WWI Germany in the early stages of becoming Nazis or the more obvious one of Iran post Shah under the Mullahs. The outcome is preordained unless the USA starts to protect their actual strategic interests and does not fall for it’s own rhetoric (IE democracy is good long live democracy). Of course with Obama and Hillary in charge this situation will likely go off the cliff like everything else.
We could use some regime change here in the USA too. Lets see just like Egypt we are under attack from our government, rising food prices, rising fuel prices, rising facists regulations on every front, high unemployment, attacks on the freedom of the internet, bring back the fairness doctrine to control cable TV, legislate civility to further muzzle free speech, and pursue anti american socialist goals. Today we are all egyptians!!
Tommy Gunn
what Assad said is laughable – in Syria the 1982 revolt by the Muslim brotherhood in the city of Hama was squelched by bombing the city, killing 30,000. Come on.
yes Hama was turned into a parking lot.
Looks like they want what happened to Iran to happen to Egypt, indeed.
Perhaps it’s the same agenda and similar people at work.
In fact that would seem almost certain.
Which leaves one with the question of what on earth are they playing at?
Why are folk from a democratic country like the good old US of A pursuing policies and actions which would seem to indicate they are trying to turn the world into a medieval nightmare?
“Who is dumb enough to want to be a U.S. ally under these conditions?”
Is there an ally or friend of the United States of America left that Obama has not betrayed..?
One thing for sure that the World watch come out of the Egyptian madness.
Thanks to Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton the Middle East Peace process; for whatever rinky-dink path it was on is now stone dead.
Not having a clue of what they are talking about Obama and Hillary should have kept their mouths shut.
Here, the unthinkable catastrophe is that there is more than a serious chance that this clown will be reelected to a second term.
What does that tell the world about the American people?
There is no excuse for giving money to dictators. Except maybe a peace accord between Israel and Egypt. Egypt is a special case. But Egypt is not a “friend” or an “ally”. Egypt receives money, simply because they agreed to not attacking Israel. They are still a disgusting dictatorship. Focus should now be on helping Egypt crafting a new democratic constitution that can withstand attacks from within and ensure that the first election winner does not become the new dictator.
I kind of like the idea of then Muslim dominoes falling. If the lands of Islam turn into jihadi countries, it’s easier to flatten them all in one sunny day.
I heard Jordan is making more democratic changes. Pakistan may go the way of Egypt reports the Red Cross.
Whatever the price, getting rid of these lands of Islam is worth it.
American interests first.
As to the Holy One … f him and his foreign policy.
Our concern isn’t Egypt or islam right now; our concern is (or should be) BHO, the anti-American President who occupies the Oval Office. He wants to “fundamentally transform” America, do NOT forget that. And he’s doing just that with what he did and what he does and what he will do.
We should try to overthrow him, either throught impeachment or by asking for his resignation; then deal with islam and Egypt.
Stay focused.
Like your thinking! But it will never happen peacefully. And not electorally. Which leave us what?
Small point but crucial point-
” The second result of this insight will be a series of international conflagrations that will result from the loss of America’s deterrent power. ”
America did not ” lose ” its deterrent power. Obama willingly abandoned it.
The date he did this is determinable. It was June 4, 2009 in his Cairo speech- ” No single nation should pick and choose which nations hold nuclear weapons. ”
This speech will come to be looked upon by historians as the beginning of WW3.
ps- Notably absent from the audience when BHO gave his speech? Hosni Mubarak.
well written ….too many have their heads in their as$es on this.
thank you
Clearly, the troubles in Egypt are the direct result of Sarah Palin and the Tea Party. They proved that a corrupt, non-responsive government can be stopped, even in the face of a captive media that serves as the corrupt government’s propaganda directorate. The mechanism for change in Egypt is different (and, they don’t have talk radio, secure internet or an armed populace) but the motivation and objectives are the same, get rid of the crooks and thieves. Thanks, Sarah.
Ladies and gents-to put to rest the open question, as to where Obama stands in this Middle East eruption, I defer the intelligent readers of PJM to the following indisputable link-http://bigpeace.com/cbrim/2010/08/29/coming-august-31-direct-access-stimulus-grants-for-the-muslim-brotherhood/
Read in FULL, weep, then get busy disseminating!
Anna – that link did not work when I typed it in…and I checked it…wouldn’t mind reading that article. Thanks.
instead of cheering on the pro-democracy forces all the so-called “realists” can do is hyperventilate about the Muslim Brotherhood.
Considering that Hosni Mubarak only became President after the Muslim Brotherhood murdered his predecessor Anwar Sadat, sober realism does at least inquire about the possibility of the MB ‘gaining power’. After the jolly peace-and-love mobs finish decapitating the current government and chasing Mubarak away, who’s got the organization to co-opt or fend off amateur ‘democrats’ and take its place?
The Brotherhood now dominates the professional and student associations of Egypt and is famous for its network of social services in neighborhoods and villages. (Wikipedia) Its Hamas activists are swarming in from Gaza to join the fun. It has all sorts of grievances to settle after decades of suppression by the Nasser and Sadat and Mubarak governments.
Seems like the hyperventilating is coming more from the naive romantics who believe that democracy will grow from the wreckage of sloganeering street mobs.
To some of the first posters here, Rubin is not wailing. Rubin is reading tea leaves, as Ms. Kutnicki writes. Barry Rubin is not a trembler.
What we have here is either a US slide into politically correct mush that provokes or abets the ‘revolution’ that ends up in MB control, or the voices of Adina and others are right in that Obama actually seeks such an outcome. I strive mightily to resist that conclusion, but the evidence can lead to either conclusion, or some combination of both.
It is not just that the US is proving itself a near-worthless ally at this moment, shocking Israel and all small states that may depend on its diplomatic shelter. I am praying for cold-eyed sobriety in Jerusalem. I also believe that this nightmare – the collapse of America as a responsible superpower – can jolt Israelis to the right, and force a reevaluation of roles and relationships. For, if ever, this is the time to stand up and start laying down some rules of our own.
I am personally on my way back, and though I am tempted by fear, I am too heartened by the strengths of my people. At the same time, a sense of amazement and deep dismay has set in at the spectacle of American public acquiescence to the mind-numbing views of talking heads like Bill Kristol. Apparently being American in 2011 means cross-party ostrich-zation.
“What does that tell the world about the American people?”
Well among other things the electorate has a hard time distinguishing between a Presidential election and a vote for American idol. Hopefully the presence of the hangman will concentrate enough minds so that an adult is elected president in 2012 (after the 2008 silliness can anyone be sure). In any event we can all agree that Obama’s legacy will be death and plenty of it.
Alright, I’m going to say something I have never uttered before: SHAME ON YOU! (There, I said it). America has proudly been the source of freedom throughout the world from its inception. To step away from that now for the sake of stability and fear of the unknown would indeed signify a lost, stuffy, aging, America.
And here’s another first: Thank you Obama for finally finding your backbone!
Always support freedom. Or you certainly will end up on the wrong side of history.
Maybe I’m late to the game but why is everyone so sure that the MB is NOT behind the “revolution?” And could someone tell me why if Egypt who has had a better economy since 2004 than us, growing GDP and a 58% literacy rate , which is where we are decending to, that the people over there were opporessed by Mubarak. Please show me where Egypt was an oppressor. Also show me that the MB has nothing to do with this uprising.
And cf does have a good post as do many here. What I see from dissenters is support for the MB, odummer and jihadists.
Look, while your fealty to an 84-year-old man is commendable, where is your responsibility to the far, far greater cause of freedom and democracy. Let’s not start sounding like the hypocritical democrats, with their justifications for not overthrowing Sadaam being that the Iraqis like being ruled by a tyrant.
As for the MB, you’re asking me to prove a negative when you ask for a guarantee that they won’t takeover. That risk pales to the potential benefit of a democratic Egypt–and if were lucky–dovetailing into a democratic middle east. The last thing we want is to be seen by the Muslim world as fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan for democracy, while sitting silent when it comes to Muslims asking for their freedom on their own. The thought of it is distasteful in the extreme while gravely undermining our ongoing operations.
The Arab world would call us hypocrites, and I would have to agree.
One cannnot use the word democracy and moslem in the same sentence. They are mutually exclusive. Democracy will never take hold where people cling to thier Korans and its hate filled pages. The West has to stop kidding itself about the value of establishing democracy in areas where the people desire to live under dictatorship. For decades Americans have poured the blood of their young and their wealth into establishing democracy; it is time to stop. If these people want democracy let them do the dying for it. It is the only fair and just thing to do. Besides look at democracy in America; it thrives in corruption and amorality videlicet Chicago Ill.
What is most troubling about the Obama administration’s ham handed meddling in the Egyptian turmoil is that they really think they have clearly thought the entire situation through, weighed all the options, and that their betrayal(not that they call it that) of Mubarak is not just the best they can do, it is the best that can be done, and it is the correct thing to do. After all, as the cartoon says, Obama and Clinton have lots of PhD’s and Egyptian experts advising them.
Of course in the world of Obama and Clinton short term thinking, taking into account only those trivial facts that suit their Left wing ideology, and with total disregard to the larger picture seems to guide their thinking.
Remember the Obama emphasis on stopping the “settlements” as a way of inducing the Palestinians to restart negotiations with Israel? Remember how it not only failed to achieve the desired results, it actually worsened the situation? By the waym, Israelis and Palestinians are still not negotiating.
Obama and Clinton are proving to be even more disastrous to the Middle East by their wanton and good intentioned destruction of the relatively moderate Mubarak regime Egypt than Jimmy Carter was with his murder of the Shah and the abandonment of Iran to Khomeni.
“Historical analogies are not scientific laws.”
True enough, but in this part of the world I would have to say that the likelyhood of Egypt ending up with a Democratic Republic with benevolent elected officials is a about as likely as Hamas and Israel becoming buddies.
Historical analogies in this instance would be the obvious way to predict the outcome of events in Egypt.
The size of the Muslim Brotherhood is of little importance. They will find a way to muscle their way in because they are good at it and more willing to die for their agenda than the moderates. Do you think that the majority of Iranians then or today want the mullah dictators in power?
I hope you are right, but I’d put money on the Muslim Brotherhood, a new Islamic state and a Mideast War within the near term.
Obama and Hillary through their ineptness and appeasement will back us into that war and it won’t be pretty. Nukes are likely.
I truly hope I am wrong, but the history of the Middle East and the Islamists among the Arabs says I’m dead on.
Just for fun: Name one functioning arab democratic government, and Iraq doesn’t count as it isn’t there yet. Name one, you’ve got 60 seconds?
Or could it be, that having the mullahs in power in Iran, and the Muslim Brotherhood in power in Egypt, is precisely what Obama wants?
That’s what I am inclined to think.
Exactly!
Judge by actions, not by words. Obama is a Taqiyya spouting Muslim.
The truth must be said. The American Left including BHO has more in common with the likes of Muslim Brotherhood than real freedom lovers who tried to
revolt against Ahmedinejad and Mullahs.
Barry, we have a trembling hand at the helm.
America has been going around apologizing for its existence for the past two years. Obama the Apologist has teed up the world for America to be battered and beaten about the ears.
This self-aggrandizing administration is interested in promoting its own glorification at the expense of America’s standing in the world. In that vein, they have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Well, at least for one half of the equation.
We were previously despised by tyrants and dictators across the globe. Today, we are disrespected and despised.
The golden calf of leftism…where Mao, Che, Castro and Chavez reign supreme is the end game for an administration that alternately hides its hard left pull and then jerks us to a further left lurch, leaving us unsteady on our feet and furiously attempting to recover our balance.
It did not disguise its intentions well enough to avoid the shellacking in the mid-terms. (or conversely, as many of the anarchists wanted, it didn’t move violently and swiftly enough to crush our rights)
America as presently constituted is not an ally that any of our former allies would want. We have sold Israel down the river. We gave back the bust of Winston and replaced it with the poster of Che.
The twits and ninnies brigade of self-congratulating “holier than thou liberals” couldn’t sense danger in a cage of tigers. The leftists use them, pulling them like taffy, stretching the credulity of leftist distortions to epic proportions.
Egypt and Mubarak are merely the twirling and teetering five pin. The bowling ball had struck long before this…and now we are simply waiting to see how many of the other pins fall. In other words, the forces that gave rise to this were set in motion over the past two years, not two weeks. When Obama left Bibi to dine alone that evening, when he bowed deeply to Arab monarchy, when he told the world that America was not exceptional,…he let loose a force he could not contain.
And the glory he sought in doing so will be his…as the destroyer of American security and quite possibly Israel’s…and the shift of power to the tyrants leftists love to admire. Anarchy and chaos are the children of revolutionaries. Obama has given birth to a litter.
very telling of the leftist. they call Mubarak a dictaor yet trip over themselves trying to praise che, fidel, chavez mao etc.
…and fail to properly support the only democracy in the middle east.
….go figure. these people are led around like kindergarten kids ..everyone hold on to the rope.
Amen. Vote for an illegitimate President whose heart is with the Muslims and the Marxists, get chaos. Beautifully said.
Unfortunately this is true about Obama. Obama is pro Muslim and he is against Israel! Obama was educated in Muslim schools as a child and vowed as President to now allow anyone to criticize Islam. He is protecting/promoting Islam rather than protecting the US Constitution!
The Muslim Brotherhood is the only organized political opponent. About 82% of the people favor stoning to death adulterers, something like 60% favor cutting hands of thieves, 40% of the population of Egypt is uneducated and poor. If it falls to an Islamic state, it will be ruled by another tyrant, and they will reinstate stoning of adulterers and rape victims, cutting of hands, women may not be able to work-most oil goes through the Suez Canal so oil may have to travel 6,000 miles more raising prices, & Egypt will go to war against Israel & the US. My well educated Egyptian friend said the people don’t know what they are protesting & they don’t really know who is behind the protests.
Mohammed ElBaradei emerged as leader in Egyptian revolution-he has been recognized by secularists & Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, the primary opposition force, as a voice to call for Mubarak to step down. “It would be a mistake to infer that he in fact holds the power,” Aronson says. “You’ve got other institutions that will remain more powerful-the army & military & Islamists.” said Geoffrey Aronson, research director at the Foundation for Middle East Peace.
just a brief, little reminder
democracy, unburdened of law and order, is only mob rule
and
it only takes a couple rabble-rousers to turn a protest into complete anarchy…
then
a ruthless regime, in the name of peace and brotherhood, can fill the void to provide “security” for the mob
28. Keith: “Always support freedom.”
If only that were the case with what is happening in Egypt (paving the way towards becoming an extremist Islamist state where sharia rules). This is freedom?
UPHEAVAL IN THE MIDDLE EAST: IS IT 1979 IRAN ALL OVER AGAIN?
The signs are troubling:
Obama won the presidency on November 4, 2008 which fell on the 29th anniversary of the hostage crisis in Iran-the first act of war by militant Islam on the US leading to the 9/11 catastrophe 22 years later. This occured under Jimmy “we have overcome our fear of Communism” Carter-the man who deserted the pro-Western, secularizing Shah in favor of the US hating Islamist Ayatollah Khomenie believing he was a democratic reformer. Ominously the Shah fled to (and died in) Egypt a country now in turmoil like the one he left.
On April 6, 2009, shortly after Obama delivered his first fawning speech to Islamfrom Ankara, Turkey (his first trip to a Moslem country, which is now an ally of Iran and turning Islamist) a Turkish-born Canadian citizen stole a small single engine plane from a Canadian flight school and flew it across the US border where he was forced to land by two pursuing F-16 jets. Ironically and ominously, and I do not believe this was a mere coincidence, the plane landed in CARTER COUNTY, MISSOURI…..
Click my name to continue reading article
…I don’t think el-bardei worries what is in the egyptian constitution. kind if like most totalitarians/leftists.
regards
Take a look at “Inside the Revolution” by Joel Rosenberg. Even though the copyright shows 2009, the analyses of the 6 groups within Islam are enlightening.
Mubarak belonged to the resisters, just as Ben Ali of Tunisia did.
cfbleachers writes the best piece I’ve ever read in five years here at PJM, and nobody comments. This should run as a full page ad in every American newspaper.
Really? It sounded to me more like: troubling things are happening in Egypt and no one knows what will happen; there are no clear solutions available…so why not bash Obama with more boilerplate?
God knows that the left would have done the same thing to GWB, but it simply shows that attacking the political enemy is a lot easier than figuring out exactly what can and should be done.
“…figuring out exactly what can and should be done.”
Are you kidding D-White? Has the Modern Contortionist resigned from the Pick It Fence Freak Circus? Why would The Ping Pong Tongue suddenly attempt to go straight?
Yes, in an abstract sense, D-White is consistent. Consistently backward and forward and up is down.
But then there is this first D-White declaration of – “troubling things are happening in Egypt and no one knows what will happen; there are no clear solutions available…”, means… What?
How can something be “figured out” if “no one knows what will happen; there are no clear solutions available”? This is Prime Time time Modern Contortionist. Let the sunshine D-White. Find a battery powered megaphone and go take a cold shower and commune with yourself.
You’ll find a great deal of agreement.
Just think, an 8-Track of The Ping Pong Tongue slapping around “no clear solutions”. It will sell! Mr. President will be first in line!
And how the hell will you get that Pick It Fence in the shower? Will “Alaska” fit in there too?
Here, you like this as well –
But Lather still finds it a nice thing to do,
To lie about nude in the sand…
Whereas your analysis of the situation would be what? I missed that part.
The Situation.
You mean this D-White?
Think beyond all you learned hanging out in the faculty lounge.
Donate the Pick It Fence to the Smithsonian.
Rebrand The Ping Pong Tongue into The Sponge Tongue.
Embrace Sarah Palin’s voice, and “Hickdom” in general.
And/or this?
Award Mubarek the next Noble Peace Prize.
For the next two years –
Make Mr. President work as a Burger King cashier.
Make Mrs. President remove her makeup and processing.
Make Mrs. Clinton work as a nurse’s aide in a rest home.
Make Jimmy Carter live in Gaza.
Make the NYT editorial staff headquarter in Hattiesburg MS.
Make Michael Bloomberg eat french fries and take daily target practice with a .44. And…
Make D-White teach Math.
Modern Liberals love the use of force.
Lather was thirty years old today,
And Lather came foam from his tongue.
Agreed. CF’s assessment is spot on.
Thinking folks cringed at Obama’s Cairo U. hat-in-hand speech. At his naive reaching out to Teheran. At his entire apology tour of the Middle East. At his snubbing of the Brits, Israel, Germany–our loyal allies.
We knew there would be a price for all this nonsense. First, dithering until the moment passed with the demonstrators in Iran. Today, Egypt. Who next? Syria, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Sudan, the Pakistanis…? How much “vote present” state diplomacy do we have to tolerate before we admit the WH is in way over its head?
Dwight, your eight line, two paragraph message has convinced me that there is no point to being here anymore. Goodbye to all. Rachel
ignore the troll
…it helps to acknowledge the writer if the article is good.
Drama queen.
“STELLA! STELLA”; uh, I mean “RACHEL! RACHEL”!
If Egypt falls to the Islamists it will be a big step towards the annihilation of the Jews and for the Islamization of the world that they are planning.
With all due respect, I don’t think Israel will go that quietly. There are still old guard Mossad and IDF whose resumes include the 1967 Six-day War, 1973′s Yom Kippur War, Entebbe, Osirak, etc.
With all due respect, I don’t think Israel will go that quietly. There are still old guard Mossad and IDF whose resumes include 1967′s Six-day War, the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Entegge, Osirak, etc.
If I understand G-d’s written prophcey about Egypt, watch for a great amount of blood shed, and a union of North African countries. Also, through fear this confederation will have a weak peace with Israel.
Mubarak is going down regardless of the “man child” in the White House==I’m sure if it goes badly, he’ll blame it on Bush, and if it goes well, he’ll take the credit. I suspect Bush will get the blame in the short term. In the long term democracy has consequences; the Germans blew it for a hundred years and it took WW2 to straighten the German Left out. Ditto for the Japanese. We just did Sadam and Mr. one eyed Omar. No one has immunity.
Egypt is no different than the United States, right now. The Egyptian TEA Party is rioting for liberty, but finally, will only be ruled again by another type of oppressive government. There’s no way the people of Egypt will get anything like a true democratic government, given the history of centuries of autocratic rule. The vacuum being created by the protests can only be satiated by another form of absolute power. And the new rulers will not be any friendlier to the United States than any other middle eastern nation at this point in time. They cannot afford to become a country that does not toe the line of the dominant religion in the region. This is the reason no one has heard any attempt at resolution from the United Nations.
Do you think they want to become another Israel? Even children know that will not happen.
There’s only one direction Egypt can realistically take: More of the same. The new government will most likely resemble Iran, China or N. Korea. Rioting will not be tolerated.
The true fact of the matter is that the Muslim Brotherhood doesn’t have the numbers to take over the gov’t with street violence.
Their biggest hope will be through elections and it is possible that could happen in the same way as it did in Gaza when Hamas was foolishly elected into power.
No one really knows what will happen in this regard. Although the Muslim Brotherhood is outlawed in Egypt its proxies have been doing quite well at the polls but it is a race to see whether the MS will itself be subverted by Democracy or subvert Democracy in the end.
Two facts are true: if you bring an overtly hostile gov’t into power both the American gov’t's money and tourism dollars will dry up almost completely. Especially if the latter happens, you will wreck a substantial part of the economy which is barely afloat as it is.
You are talking about millions of dollars each year with entrance fees alone. That is not counting hotels, tour buses, independent tour guides, taxi drivers, airlines, tourist agents, etc.
Should the MS do this they will be overseeing a economy far worse than it is now and this is not going to go over well with the majority of Egyptians. In this sense, the MB will find that it is far easier to protest than to lead and an overtly Islamic Egypt may simply be impossible without throwing people out of jobs wholesale.
Add to this a lack of new foreign investment and less help from the International Monetary Fund and any dreams the MB has to assert itself like Iran seem a fairy tale.
You’re talking about 80 million people basically relying on a river whose flow at this point is also barely floating Egypt’s needs. Economically speaking, Egypt simply has few places to move and without money, there is no military to threaten anyone as well.
A real democracy is the only way for Egypt to forge ahead but whether the MB knows this or cares about this or will be successful in the first place are the million dollar questions.
Egypt’s economy has been doing very well but the recent violence has cost the country millions and it will be a long time recovering from the last few days. Islamicist success could have a price that simply cannot be paid.
“With peace with Egypt suddenly in doubt, Israelis are wondering about the wisdom of risking further withdrawals for agreements that could be abrogated with a change of regime.”
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/67344/yossi-klein-halevi/israels-neighborhood-watch?page=show
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2006/09/egypts-democratic-movement-vs-israel
” used the Nazi weapons it had been given in 1942 to try to destroy Israel in the 1948 war,”
How did the Nazis give them weapons to the MB in WW ll, when the closest Rommel got was the almost uninhabited Libyan border while the rest of the country, including all air and sea routes, were firmly in British hands? The weapons Egypt used in 1948 were given to them mainly by the British and included a lot of our lend lease weapons we gave the UK.
nuke da bijes
Peaceful Islam in Words and Actions
Islam, the “Religion of Peace,” according to Islamists, is tolerant of all other religions, is opposed to slavery, treats women as equals, and is incompatible with terrorism, all of which contentions are also according to Muslims. In reality, none of that is true about Islam as history has proven.
For evidence, please see “The Myths of Islam,” http://tiny.cc/236mu, which details the historical truth as opposed to those intentionally-perpetrated myths. However, one need not waste time exploring the long, disturbing and disturbed history of the religion of the Prophet Mohammed in order to reveal the truth about the faith to which anywhere from 1.2 to 1,6 billion people adhere. You just have to read the news.
Take the People’s Republic of Bangladesh where Muslims comprise 80% of the population and which is considered one of the “Next Eleven,” nations believed to have the potential to become world economic leaders in the new century. One of the most densely populated countries on the planet with 164.4 million mostly poor souls scrunched into 144 square miles of water and land, Bangladesh is also in the forefront of demonstrating classic Islamic treatment of its female inhabitants and the Next Eleven must be a sorry lot if Bangladesh is a member.
In civilized nations, rape, especially the rape of a minor child, is treated as among the most reprehensible of all crimes. In Shariatpur, Bangladesh, 14 year old Hena was raped by her 40 year old cousin, Mahbub, one day. The next day she, not Mahbub, was punished by being killed.
Lest anyone jump to false conclusions, Hena wasn’t intentionally murdered as a consequence of her misdeed. It was done all very legally and properly under Islamic law when Shariatpurian villagers condemned her in a fatwa, a scholarly, sharia ruling, and sentenced her to 100 lashes. As all Muslims know, females are always responsible for being raped.
Young Hena beat the rap though, surely to the disappointment of the villagers, when she fell unconscious after a mere 80 lashes and subsequently died: http://tiny.cc/g4bly
Apparently cousin Mahbub is still on the prowl. Hena is still dead. The government is all verklempt. Sharia is very much alive.
Another piece of work is the Islamic Republic of Iran.
In 2009, Iran held an “election” which is tantamount to saying Cuba or Venezuela or the old U.S.S.R. held an election. That is, it was a fraud. . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=3568)
America or any country believing in freedom, except in very extraordinary circumstances, should never support any dictatorship.