The U.S. Should Overthrow Kim Jong Il
Second, we should broadcast radio transmissions into North Korea. Kim Jong Il tells his “subjects” he was born under a rainbow and walked on the moon. According to widespread rumors, he once held a press conference to claim he invented the toaster oven. He wears high heels. He kidnaps Japanese girls, smuggles them to Korea, and chases them around his palaces. In other words, he’s as clinically insane as he is objectively evil. Imagine Charles Manson taking over a country and producing enough plutonium for a nice personal nuke arsenal. Not a pretty scenario.
Yet despite all this — despite the dungeons, the meat grinders, the two million dead from famine, and the widespread malnutrition — the North Korean people, having been subjected to decades of brainwashing and indoctrination, still praise and worship the “dear leader” for every waking moment of their lives.
How could such a nationwide cult-like psychosis be reversed? It would be hard, no doubt, but we should still start a serious reverse-propaganda program of beaming real information into North Korea, similar to Radio Free Europe at the end of the Cold War. We should weaken the tyrant’s rule from within; when done properly, it works almost every time. To paraphrase my friend Michael Ledeen: there are many ways to destroy a dictator when you have his oppressed people on your side.
Third, we should let Japan go nuclear. Charles Krauthammer recommends this approach, which makes great geopolitical sense. We should encourage the Japanese to amend their pacifistic constitution and start popping out A-bombs like Toyotas. A nuclear Japan is no reason to fret: it is a mature democracy, a loyal ally, and a responsible and civilized society. This isn’t the ’40s anymore.
Japan’s nuclearization — which should be temporary and stated as such — would likely worry the Chinese enough to compel them to come down hard on their client state. Getting China to turn on North Korea is the real key and a nuclear Japan would certainly do the trick. Should Beijing remain unfazed by Tokyo going nuclear, maybe President Obama could send Don Rumsfeld on another one of those “special envoy” ambassadorships — this time, to the Far East to call China’s bluff on Taiwan.
Having spent way more time in “diplomacy school” than anyone’s mental health should allow, I can personally attest: active diplomats, retired diplomats-turned-professors, and aspiring would-be diplomats refuse to recognize that some things in this world fall outside of their professional purview. Could we imagine any other profession — say, anesthesiology or lumberjacking — making that same bold claim about itself?
Kim has made a mockery of our diplomacy with him for nearly two decades. He soaked President Clinton for all he was worth, clicking champagne glasses with Madeleine Albright all the while perfecting the art of plutonium production. During the Bush administration, Kim reneged on every preliminary agreement before the preliminary agreement could get its trousers off. And now he’s manhandling Mr. Obama to the point of embarrassment.
Faith is the belief in things unseen and unproven, and Obama certainly has faith in his unproven ability to influence bad actors and bend them to his will. Peter Wehner of Commentary writes of Obama’s faith in diplomacy like so:
During the campaign, whenever asked how he would address a thorny foreign policy issue, Mr. Obama invoked the need for diplomacy — first, last, and always. The failure to reach agreement was found in some misunderstanding, some misperception, some problem of communication that could be cleared up by “talking.” Even those of us who don’t rule out the benefits of negotiating were skeptical about Obama’s seemingly limitless faith in it, or the ease with which he seemed to think these problems could be solved.
Enough is enough. Kim Jong Il has proven he will stop at nothing to produce and proliferate nuclear weapons, and that is a no-no. Diplomacy has failed. Talking for the sake of talking is not working. Serious powers ought to be emphasizing results, not process. “Soft power” is a problem cured by Cialis — not a national security strategy for North Korea. It’s time we started working to bring that twisted, Lilliputian, Chia Pet miscreant down.
Could this possibly be the first time a full-grown adult writer has suggested such a tack be taken? Everybody else seems to think it’s an impossibility.
Can’t help but think the See-Thru Pompadour is trying to commit suicide by cop.
As my brother, a hockey “enforcer” and a scrapper of some ability in his younger years, would have said. Talk is cheap. Let’s dance!
What would it take to get the Japanese to start a nuclear program? I doubt they’re going to amend their constitution just because we ask nicely.
Also I was under the impression that radios in North Korea were built to only have certain preset stations. In essence the radios have no tuning dials, only buttons to go to their “favorite” frequencies. Otherwise people near the border would be able to get news stations from South Korea.
Kim Jong Il’s whole Communist regime should be taken out, but this would require courage & a backbone; however, I do not see this happening anytime soon. North Korea will try to blackmail America one way or another. President Obama will comply.
I believe Kim is on his last legs, literally. For a long time, he wasn’t pictured in public and it was rumored he was not able to walk. He is diabetic, and the fresh food flown in for him from all over the world (while his people eat clay) has not changed that.
Last week, I saw a picture of a frail and shrunken man, sitting down.
I have thought the recent flurry of activity might be related to Kim’s last gasp. It seems (and seemed at the time) North Korea was playing C. Rice and Christopher Hill. Very embarrassing, all this so called diplomacy with madmen. The UN puffery on both NK and Iran is starting (only starting ?) to sound perfectly ridiculous.
Foolish as I am, I am hoping regime change will bring a saner North Korea.
The reason North Korea hasn’t been taken out yet is the fact that South Korea’s capital, Seoul, is currently within range of several thousand North Korean artillery pieces. You start a war with N Korean, South Korea has it’s largest city and capital reduced to rubble. Nuclear weapons threat or not, that’s a pretty rough trade.
Otherwise S Korea’s military alone could probably slap the North silly.
Shure thang Bubba only “use your children to do it” I prefer my kids alive.
So, the US military is bogged down in Iraq and trying to win hearts & minds in Afghanistan. Who’s going to pay for yet another military adventure in North Korea? With his mindset, I have to assume that Mr. Guariglia was not a participant in any of the recent tea parties protesting government spending.
And how exactly does Mr. Guariglia propose to take out the North Korean government and military? Does he really think Comrade Kim and his generals are stupid enough to all be in one place when the US military comes calling? Middleman (post #6) has good points about the vulnerability of Seoul. And I’d add there may be North Korean sleeper cells in the South to wreak further damage.
His notion that Japan should go nuclear would not fare well with many countries in Asia; not just China. And, this is not the first time North Korea has disavowed the armistice.
No doubt that Comrade Kim is a low life, especially as one of history’s greatest mass murderers. But my thought is that Mr. Guariglia should stick with topics he knows something about; obviously he “don’t know squat” about this issue.
Why not give China the entire enchalada, or egg roll? They are closer and have more resources. I am tired of sending Americans and spending American dollars for gosh darn problems that crop up around the world! Why do you think we are the only ones in the world that can deal with trouble? Let China handle it!
Just make sure China understands that we will hit Pyongyang AND Beijing when and if a N. Korean nuke goes off outside their sand box. Oh wait, we can’t lean on China, they have to buy our crappy debt…
And why is NK America’s problem to resolve? Kim is China’s junkyard dog which is straining at the end of its red lease. It is more so in China’s interests with the Pacific Rim and trillions of US debt to stabilize the region, look like the hero, and enact “political” change. US leverage over China is squat except that NK threatens China’s collateral.
What a Maroon! America CANNOT overthrow Kim. We can kill him, which would be a good idea, although easier said then done.
That is because America is the best at designing and building weapons of war. We are the worst at skullduggery, spying, the art of espionage. Weapons without targets are useless. Almost as useless as weapons in the hands of men that lack the will to use them.
America had the economic and military power to take over the world in ’1945. We didn’t have the will to use that power so we got generations of near war instead of a golden age. Now America has built back the military and economic power it squandered 3 generations ago.
If we can find the will to use that power this time, Kim is just another flat spot on the road to a world state under the US Constitution. I think the window will stay open longer this time.
The answer is simple and I don’t think it will cost Americans money or solidiers’ lives – we keep their populace from revolting by continuing to provide “humanitarian aid” even though their leadership isn’t willing to.
And we took them off the Terror List and resumed their access to financial assets. Put them back on and freeze them out.
Take away those two things and the NKor people will take things into their own hands.
We continue to be complicit by not taking these actions.
A significant problem with beaming in a Radio Free North Korea signal is that their isolationism includes measures that ensure only NK government signals can be received. Radios in NK are one way conduits of propaganda from the government and are incapable of receiving standard radio signals – they are manufactured that way by government edict. Also people caught with illegal radios go to the gulag prison system so they are few in number and essentially inaccessible to the population we’d want to reach.
..why not let our Dear Leader shoot free throws against their Dear Leader, winner take all?
Living in the eye of the Islamic storm-Israel-can make one quite edgy, and somewhat out of sorts about ones future.
But I must hand it to Nicholas for brightening up my day. The part about ‘having spent more time in diplomacy school than anyone’s mental health should allow’-priceless.
In all seriousness, the sage advice from Ledeen is definitely the way to go. Japan can no longer afford to stay out of it, they must flex their considerable muscle,sooner rather than later.
Further, beaming in Radio Free messages into the hermit kingdom is another must. The very fact that a maniac, with a penchant for Manson-like murder has his little paws on a nuclear arsenal is enough to take ones breath away.
One would hope (forgive me, but ‘hope and change’ are now official US policy) that The One would notice that Dear Leader is mentally unhinged and requires alot more handling than diplo school affords.Relying on gobblygook just won’t cut it when it comes to mentally challenged leaders.Even Harvard (regardless of how he gained entrance)law grads should have other options in their arsenals.
Alas, perhaps his community organizing skills are his back up plans.
The US, and by extension the free world, is cooked with these kooks (theirs and ours) in power.
Wishful thinking, Nick. Obamble and regime change? How? he is politically closer to lil Kimmie. Why would you think he could overthrow any one who is politically like him?
Kim is shaking in his boots. He laughs so hard that his stomach is aching. To ask our Dear Leader to overthrow their Dear Leader? How silly!
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/
“It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people… But we Russians would not just roll over and give up our freedoms and our souls, no matter how much money Wall Street poured into the fists of the Marxists… Those lessons were taken and used to properly prepare the American populace for the surrender of their freedoms and souls, to the whims of their elites and betters… The final collapse has come with the election of Barack Obama. His speed in the past three months has been truly impressive. His spending and money printing has been a record setting, not just in America’s short history but in the world… These past two weeks have been the most breath taking of all. First came the announcement of a planned redesign of the American Byzantine tax system, by the very thieves who used it to bankroll their thefts, loses and swindles of hundreds of billions of dollars. These make our Russian oligarchs look little more than ordinary street thugs, in comparison. Yes, the Americans have beat our own thieves in the shear volumes. Should we congratulate them?”
Folks, it’s time to look at ourselves, the state of our own country, and stop meddling in Kim’s.
“But we Russians would not just roll over and give up our freedoms and our souls”
You must be kidding. The Ruskies don’t have a functioning democracy. Not even close. Freedoms? The freedom for Vlad and his pals to run the country into the dirt you mean. Souls? The souls of a country that sent millions into the gulag? That starved those who didn’t go along with collectivism? They’re worried about their souls? A country that is declining in population at a rapid rate with life expectancies that are still falling?
Yeah right. Now I’m not making excuses for Zero, because, well, he’s a fascist (specifically a syndicalist) in my opinion. Just don’t buy any bridges from this Ruskie.
One little problem – what actions would “hold you responsible” entail? If they’re going to be nothing more than statements that are “strongly worded”, or just further pressing for more sanctions, then the above “threat” isn’t worth squat.
I’ve got a better, only half-faceitious idea: overthrow the Obama Administration first. The road to victory in Pyongyang runs through…Washington DC.
It worked for Saddam!
North Korea is what we voted into office, socialism with a gun. Millions of North Korea have starved to death while Carter, Clinton, Bush(s), and Barry all did nothing. That food deal Carter worked up only feed the guys with guns.
I think the real danger and problem to American security, the one which truly deserves confrontation, is the La Raza contingent tryin’ to sell China and her kids, American, “white”, middle-class entitlements, in trade for the favor of scapegoating their once ally, North Korea, by stepping down in a confrontation. If you remember the LA riots of 1992, that is exactly the same kind of maneuver that made this organization, and it’s African ally, gain political momentum in the hearts and minds of the liberal consensus…Politically, (which by all means has become militant), La Raza will need and want to demonstrate their potency and “patriotism” to the American public so to squelch some of the subversion at their core that can’t help but leak out through the cracks in their armor as they gain more notoriety… Of course they cannot do so without appeasing a power that will threaten formidable confrontation…And make them look like fools…(which is why they attacked K-town, in the first place)….This will appear on the surface as a “coup de grace” in diplomacy but China will WANT SOMETHING for such a betrayal towards their ally…and that will be “whitey”s investments in the futures of their own children….The ”Reginald Denny” equation (“Hey, we got away with it once! History repeats itself!”)…So “whitey” prepare yerself fer a brick in the head, in one way or another…Say a taxation of some sort or a non-sense judgment against you…or heaps of bureaucracy when you seek civil protections…an unspoken bias against you …or worse….plus a life of brain damage without justice…….Livin’ on a street next to each other doesn’t mean all that much …..That disappears quick….Gotta stop the bad guys, the liars, the looters, and crooks, that’s all there is to it, boys and girls…Eventually that’ll mean U2 Russia, and Europe…remember yer “complexion”….After all when it comes to numbers, you gotta expedite decisions somehow….First trip Villagrosia made when he was elected mayor of LA was to China…Hmm, why would he do that? …and then we have Hsu an’ Madame Clinton…..And from what I hear there is a growing presence of Chinese in the South American continent…..Do I got somethin’ against Chinese? Or Africans? Or Mexicans? Nope, only when they pick fights with me….or steal from me…or cheat me…an’ keep on always hittin’ me below the belt…After I done nuthin’ but show good word, good will, kind respect, an’ certain intentions towards ‘em personally through my actions in the ring…I am an American against evil, sneaky, two-faced,little people who harass an’ toady their way through this life always dealin’ in uncertain intentions…..I am an American and I am for justice and the fair game.
People who criticize this article should read it first. Nothing mentioned costs anything more than a shift in policy.
As for the radios, it’s a simple matter of producing a stronger signal on the same frequency, or possibly frying the electronics on the local transmitters remotely. F-22 Raptors can actually fry the electronics in missiles and aircraft. The question is how many North Korean transmitters could be jammed from international airspace or from international waters in some way? That may be much too great a distance. If not, simply overwhelming the power levels could at least get the ones near the borders. Remember, the radios cannot be switched off. One hour a day along the borders could really rattle the cages – using their own propaganda engine against them.
“Holding responsible” means reminding him that one missile from one US submarine can render North Korea uninhabitable for 140 years, and can be there in less than 10 minutes.
All that said, the child they named successor is Western-educated. That means either he may end all this mess once the dad is gone, or may be extremely dangerous because he would understand the West much more accurately than the current despot. I don’t think an invasion is in order. I would add one thing to the list, however. Solid state lasers capable of taking out anything targeted at Seoul should be deployed as soon as they are ready, and reports have it that they are nearly ready. A similar deployment in Israel could deal with the rocket and mortar attacks they constantly suffer from Hamas and Hezbollah positions.
The La Raza’s predictably are acting in the “Say hello to my little friend” Scarface-fantasy by tryin’ to sell their America to the Chinese..Gonna need some kinda big guns if “whitey” acts up.
Can’t we just slip a mickey into his monthly shipment of 100 cases of Courvosier?
19. RKV: they are talking about the civil war overthrowing the czar. They, like the Chinese, fought a bloody civil war before they rolled over and lost their freedom to the communists. Of course, we Americans are more advance and efficient, we just roll over.
What we should be figuring out is how to make North Korea a problem for South Korea and China to solve. Our only interests are preventing the Norks from selling nukes to terrorists and launching them at Japan.
NO! Let the North Koreans do it, it’s their freakin’ country, right?
If Japan begain to nuclearize, then United Nations will either apply sanctions on Japan or lift its sanctions on North Korea. If United Nations applies sanctions on Japan, it will cripple Japan’s already weakening economy, if United Nations lift sanctions on North Korea, North Korea will become stronger and there will be an arms race between Japan and North Korea. South Korea will become nervous due to Japan’s history of aggression towards Korea, South KOrea will either join the arms race between North Korea and Japan, or it will support North Korea’s nuclear program in order to maintain balance between Japan and Korea.
So it will be Russia+China+North Korea vs. US+Japan with South Korea as the wild card that can be tipped either way.
I think unless US allow South Korea to go nuclear, South Korea will side with North Korea against Japan.
Considering how badly the overthrow of Saddam Hussein went, I would suggest that the United States concentrates on finishing the job in Iraq and Afghanistan first before embarking on any other foreign adventures. But I don’t think President Obama is as rash an individual as his predessor.
The problem is China. Bush practically begged China to deal with the Dear Nutcase and they opted out. Didn’t want the example of dictator overthrown…didn’t want the refugee problem. SK also is unwilling to risk war and unwilling to try to absorb the mess that is NK (digesting East Germany nearly destroyed West Germany…NK is light-years worse off).
Given the financial situation with China (who do you think has been financing our orgy of debt anyway), we aren’t in a position to force the issue. We just have to ride the tiger and hope things work out. That’s what happens when superpower status slips away, and it isn’t pretty. Get used to it.
This is a Grade A mess with no easy out.
Lastly, I should point out that as long as there are “whites” who are willing to sweep such maneuvers under the rug (Ricci, Denny, etc…)because it is either embarrassing to their self-interests and perceptions of themsleves or that their preeminence in America is predicated upon the endorsements of such offensives…then the logic behind this threat of La Raza and it’s associates will continue to evolve.
The stategy I have been pushing for some time is:
1) Remove US forces from South Korea. They hate us and our troops do no good there.
2) Impose a naval cordon sanitaire around North Korea. All ships entering and leaving get stopped and thouroughly searched. We find evidence of proliferation, we strike the nuclear sites.
3) If the the Norks attack South Korea, too bad. The South Koreans should have thought of the consequences before using us as a bad guy for domestic political considerations.
Our strategic goal is to prevent proliferation. It is not to protect South Korea.
Oh, yes, and Japan should go nuclear. We’ll veto any UN sanctions.
There is one and only one solution to the problem of North Korea. The only country with any influence on Kim is China and they enjoy watching him bother the US. No matter what happens he needs China and China isn’t going to cooperate. We have only one piece of leverage that will convince the Chinese that they need to control Kim. We should make it clear to Beijing that a nuclear NK tips the balance in east Asia and would require a reevaluation of our nonproliferation policy. I doubt South Korea would bother them, and Japan not much more, but the threat of a nuclear Taiwan should do it. Fix North Korea or Taipei gets the bomb. Kim wouldn’t last a week.
The stategy I have been pushing for some time is:
1) Remove US forces from South Korea. They hate us and our troops do no good there.
Sorry, you don’t get away with that here. They don’t hate us. As NK has acted up and frightened them, there has been a new realism among the people of the South. When we threaten to remove all troops, they have serious second thoughts.
Everything is a plot to weaken the US. As long as Bush ruled the midget was kept in check but with a new leader the usual instigators i.e. Russia and China were able to foment anew. If you don’t believe me then why is it so hard to get those two on board to corral a most belligerent midget? Sure the Rooskies say they’re concerned but it’s all an act. They want us to be preoccupied and use valuable resources to defend the Korean peninsula. Anything to weaken the US and eventually diminish America’s stature. We must make them be very aware that if they do not help resolve this issue they will find themselves in a world of hurt. How is that accomplished? Get Japan to remilitarize itself. Obama meets the current Prime Minister and solidifies our ties. Japan announces for defensive reasons it will begin making nuclear weapons. It launches missile programs emphasizing pinpoint accuracy. It ain’t that far to Beijing. A one megaton bomb and missiles with the accuracy of one foot will suffice. Hello China? Yeah well that 5 trillion we owe you? Well forget about it because we ain’t gonna pay it unless you rid the world of the midget. Thank you, nice doing business with you. Russia? Screw you let’s do Reagan all over again. This time there’ll be no more Putins. Maybe we’ll mobilize the Georgians and the “Stans” to start bit by bit taking over sovereign Roosky territory. Yeah Rooskies 6 million square miles of land to defend and 150 million vodka drinkers to defend it. Let’s have some fun. But we are led by liberal wimps and rule of law. Americans are the only dummies to actually believe in rule of law. Everyone else are crooks. Do you think for one second if China signed the Kyoto protocol the air in Shanghai would immediately turn clear? As they say in Brooklyn fuggedaboudit. The world is a bunch of crooks and we’re the only dummies believing in all things nice, meanwhile we have a goody two shoes President. We’re the world cops and we’re getting played by the Rooskies the Chinese and the Islamofasists. Hello Europe? Yeah well screw NATO you’re on your own now. The billions for social programs must now be used to defend yourselves. Hello Saudi’s? Yeah well if you want us to help keep Iran from taking over then get with the program. We won’t be bowing to you no more. Get the picture?
Noting the drawbacks, and advantages, of all approaches; none is perfect. The problem is at least in part ours because much of the drive by North Korea for a nuclear arsenal is to have warheads to top the missiles that they are selling to all of our enemies. Keep in mind that the Iranian and Pakistani missile arsenals have the following lineage: Russian SCUD-C, modified by the Chinese, further modified by Russian and Chinese scientists supposedly working independently in North Korea; said designs and samples being sold to the highest bidder along with aid in setting up production lines. Nuclear devices, with or without missiles, will sell. And the people who buy them will do so with the intent of exploding them in an American city, or in a city of one of our allies.
So, we do have a dog in this fight.
Subotai Bahadur
Reading Pravda (which I do now every day since the US media cratered) we find the NK “nuclear” test was just a lot of TNT. There was no radiation from the last blast. Neither Russia nor China measured any radiation. They just laugh at the mininformed USA.
Kim is not susceptible to diplomacy, but the Chinese are. Here’s the offer:
For a big chunk of money from the US, South Korea, and Japan, the Chinese will throw open their border with North Korea and offering temporary sanctuary to every North Korean who crosses over. The South Koreans will mount a repatriation effort that will eventually transport every NK refugee from China to South Korea, or back to North Korea when the South takes over.
This emptying strategy for dealing with teetering communist dictatorships has a perfect track record. It started with East Germans traveling to Hungary being allowed to go to exit the East Bloc. It eventually brought down the Soviet Union itself without a shot being fired.
Seventy-two hours after the border opened most of the North Korean military will be nothing but little piles of uniforms where soldiers once were.
With China, money would be the carrot and the stick would be Japan AND South Korea going nuclear if they fail to act.
yours/
peter.
Oh, almost forgot: another carrot for China would be the US leaving the Korean peninsula entirely once Korea is re-unified.
Mr. Guariglia wrote: “He kidnaps Japanese girls, smuggles them to Korea, and chases them around his palaces.”
For real? I’d like to see a source for this information. If it’s true, then I think he’s kindasorta got good taste. Jap girls are yummy! He’s also known to like good Kentucky bourbon. Definately good taste!
Look, this guy is obviously not crazy. He’s managed to keep control of his country and the military thereof for a number of years while developing long-range missiles and nuclear weapons. All the while he has managed to thwart all of the 6 party talks, the UN and the US. He probably sings Madonna songs while on his bourbon benders in hot pursuit of little jap girls. (“Like a Virgin,” perhaps.)
Maybe we could slip some thorazine into his shipments of Maker’s Mark and chill his psychotic a$$ out a little. Other than that, we haven’t many options. Who wants to start a war there where Seoul is in the sights of thousands of artillery pieces? We have 28,500 American troops there (apparently with their families, as well). Who is ready to sacrifice them to Mr. Kim?
36. George: I agree with you on your first point. Our troops are just wasting their time there. S. Korea has the 12th largest economy (I think) in the world. They should be able to handle it themselves. Besides, we could use those troops in Afghanistan.
We can’t blockade, however. That’s the same as a declaration of war. Thousands of S. Koreans—maybe many more—would die. That’s not acceptable.
And also, we can only veto Security Council Resolutions. Can’t do a darn thing about the UN General Assembly, though. And I think we all know how they would vote on such resolutions…
regards
35. seansarto: With all due respect, what the hell does La Raza have to do with North Korea?!?!?
Timing on this piece couldn’t be worse. Kim Jong il just chose his youngest son as his successor. I’m no fan of the regime (living in South Korea, I’m also no fan of a military intervention), but Kim Jong il is probably close to kicking off and the recent missile launches etc seem to be a strategy of shoring up power for the transition.. It seems a little patience may be in order right now.
His son is all of 26 years old and in a society that puts so much weight on age and authority, I wouldn’t be surprised if his rule is short lived. Of course there are the hardliners that could take him out but their problem is that they then break the chain of succession and the godlike image bestowed upon the new leader.
Point being, right now is probably the time to wait and see. And with the Obama administration in power, it wouldn’t happen if Kim Jong il was waving around a nuclear missile at the DMZ.
36. George –
Very well said. I agree 100%.
According to most South Koreans, it is only the US that is standing in the way of their glorious national reconciliation. I say we get out of their way immediately.
38. Red – Sorry, you don’t get away with that here. They don’t hate us.
Are you serious? Have you ever been in SK? They loathe Americans, nearly as much as they loathe the Japanese. The hatred is quite shockingly graphic, even by the crude standards of SK. This hatred grows as the generation that lived thru the Korean war dies off.
Hey, I thought fingering furriners to be overthrown was Pat Robertson’s bailiwick.
Post 41:
Pravda means thruth but in reality it is anything but. Looks like Pravda is making me out to be a genius (post 39) because if both China and Russia didn’t measure radiation it may not be because there was no nuclear explosion but because they don’t want to do anything about it. It’s all preparation for statements to be made shortly afterward. Statements like there’s no need to crack down on North Korea because there was no nuclear test so go back to sleep. And like the idiots our leaders are we go back to sleep while the midget shoots more missiles. But really tovarish can South Korea and Japan afford to rest knowing the wolf is at the door? How can you rely on a communist era rag that makes the NY Times look like The National Review? Let me remind you that in Russia dissenting journalists have been killed. So much for freedom of speech in Russia. Tow Putin’s line or become extinct. Putin is KGB. KGB controls Russia. Has anything really changed there? Nyet. China controls North Korea. They supply it with food and power. They can squeeze it as easily as the Russians squeeze oil output to Europe in the winter. Failure by China to wrangle in the midget means intent to aggravate. Having Japan arm itself twists China’s arm into cooperation. China fears Japan tremendously. We keep Japan on a leash as we keep Israel on a leash. We do China a favor while they stab us in the back by allowing a belligerent midget to play with his toys. It’s time to let go of the leash and open up the gates. Let’s see the look on China’s eyes when that happens.
expat, I’m living in SK now. The loathing you describe is not evident to me. The loathing you describe towards Japanese is surprisingly low when you think about the past. I see Japanese tourists here on a regular basis. they must not be getting too much grief.
They are a private culture and can annoy the hell out of you sometimes but I think your description is way off base.
“Hey, I thought fingering furriners to be overthrown was Pat Robertson’s bailiwick.”
Then why are Obama/Rice/Power working to overthrow Netanyahu?
North Korea is a barren country. It already looks like a nuclear test site from border to border. A country like China could take over North Korea and use this for a huge land fill for all it’s waste.
Obama is avoiding confrontation because we are war weary. Anyone that thinks war is the answer has no other solutions. With North Korea there are many solutions. Let’s start with making them a happy go lucky nation-supply them with enough food and drink and possibly some Zoloft.
“The U.S. Should Overthrow Kim Jong Il”
And then what?
“The U.S. Should Overthrow Kim Jong Il”
And then what?
Then we let Halliburton win no bid contracts to rebuild, or rather build, North Korea. Cost effective and efficient.
Um, this is like an eight-year-old’s G.I. Joe fantasy of how the world works. You get paid to do this? Or something?
“The reason North Korea hasn’t been taken out yet is the fact that South Korea’s capital, Seoul, is currently within range of several thousand North Korean artillery pieces. You start a war with N Korean, South Korea has it’s largest city and capital reduced to rubble. Nuclear weapons threat or not, that’s a pretty rough trade.”
Evidence please!
This is what that German fella called a “Big Lie”. On the Riverboats they called it a bluff. Wring your panties out and look at some facts. Those thousands of tubes ( what a Redleg calls an artillery piece) are in tunnels in the side of the hills surrounding Seoul. All you have to do is hit the hill in the right spot and the tube is buried by the cave-in. That is called a soft kill.
Also keep in mind that the Redlegs cocking those cannons DO NOT have access to the ammo the tubes need. That is kept under lock and key to keep guys from getting ideas. Fuses are kept locked also, just like every other army.
Most of the guns are 122mm, with some 130′s and a few old 76′s. Not exactly the most powerful weapons to come out of Ekaterinburg. Just off the top of my head, I figure it would take several dozen to over a hundred 122mm Shells to ‘rubbleize’ a 3 or 4 story building.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2A18
Rate of fire is 8-6-4. So each tube could be expected to take down that 3 or 4 story building in anywhere from 15 minutes to 90 minutes, depending on a lot of things. So you are looking at each tube having to survive for an hour or more. ROF goes down when you have to move the tube in and out of a tunnel. Plus the tube gets real hot when it fires and has to stand down and cool off about 10 minutes every half hour. Less if you’re willing to melt the tube.
Artillery guys (Redlegs) don’t count shells ( bullets, sorta). They go by weight. Standard shell (3QF-56) weighs 21.76 kilos. So the few dozen shells needed to destroy that rather small building ( ever been to Seoul?)
weigh about 1,000 kilos. Remember there are thousands of these tubes. So we are talking Millions of Kilos worth of shells that have to be guarded and maintained. As well as the fuse, without which the shells won’t work.
Starting to get the picture?
I’m not a Redlaeg, but while on TDY in Seoul, I got to know several. I had one explain all this to me when I made a joke about it. It is all a bluff, in that is is physically impossible to destroy Seoul with field guns, even if you had thousands. Artillery round don’t hold enough HE. You need bombers dropping bombs to rubble a city. It would take longer then the guns would last.
AS far as the citizens, Koreans are far from stooooopid. VERY far. When the rounds start landing, the inhabitants of Seoul will jump in their Toyota’s, KIA’s, Mercedes, Etc. and go south. Ever been to Seoul? Better highways then New York, LA, Chicao and a lot of other places in America. I would rate their highway system as being equal to Houston and an easy top 10 in the world.
Keep in mind that 1 or 2 2,000 Lb JDAMS will collapse the average tunnel. So the question becomes, not how many Tubes the Norks have, but how many JDAM’s we have. The answer is more then enough.
Shorter Guariglia: Daaah, meybe we shuld bild a giant dome arond NK. I pottied my pants.
#25 Kent: “nothing mentioned costs anything more than a change in policy.” Do you really think those policy changes will be fruitful; as in, people in nations conquered during WW II by Japan have real long memories. Just how do you keep the U.S. military from involvement, one way or another.
And then, like I said back in #8, who’s going to pay for another military adventure? Did you fail to notice a bunch of tea parties earlier this year protesting excessive government spending? And where will the necessary troops come from? U.S. military is already overextended in Iraq & Afghanistan.
No wait, I have a solution at least for the money end of things. According to a GAO study released earlier this year, 66 of 94 weapons procurement programs are running a collective $296 billion over original cost estimates. That ain’t chump change. Get the needed money from those greedy defense contractors that are so busy ripping off the American taxpayers.
If sending radio broadcasts into North Korea is so easy, why hasn’t South Korea been doing that for 50 years? The speak the same language, and can advertise how much more prosperous the South is.
So why isn’t South Korea doing this already?
Bohemond: you mention the troika obama/RICE/power. RICE? I thought maybe hillery might get a mention. RICE?
I think Kim is full of it.But considering the only other intel is from russian or chinese sources about radiation,(unreliable at best)i opt for the one missile ,one sub.Continue any type of research into anti-missile systems.Whether or not this nutjob or the one in Iran follow through wont matter if we take their sites out first.
You are,without a doubt,the most retarded wingnut on the interwebs this week.
Your John Wayne bullshit don’t float,Corky.
#59, you have nothing to fear except fear itself.
While I agree with you about the MIC, I would like to point out that Defense is necessary. I’m not sure what your solution is. Hide your head between your knees andhope the bad guys go away? My solution is to nationalize Lockheed.
Build about 12,000 F-22′s and control the sky for the rest of this century. With control of the Sky and the ability to put a JDAM anywhere it doesn’t matter all that much what the Army guys are using.
I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the Usurper’s various bail outs and scams are a bigger part of the budget (deficit?) than Defense. At least those defense dollars are buying protection from various piss ant nations led by unsavory thugs. All the money spent by the Usurper will buy America is inflation. He didn’t get that good a deal on it.
Remember “Millions for defense, nothing for tribute”? You are going to find out why that is still true after all these years.
Thanks to #44 for noting the act of war implications. Jamming is an act of war. So is a blockade.
On the other hand, Kim’s renouncement of the armistice legalizes it. It is a declaration of war. No act of Congress is necessary. None. The state of war already exists, but for the armistice. The renunciation of the armisitice triggers the war again. Done deal. What a gift! Bring in the heavy bombers… and the Navy. Stand off and hit them.
65. Marc Malone: I agree that, “…Kim’s renouncement of the armistice legalizes it. It is a declaration of war…” It is not, however, the start of hostilities. I believe that we all know what’s going on here: Kim is trying to dissuade the international community from searching ships leaving N. Korea. It’s just bluster. Kim is not suicidal. He’s a very calculating leader. He knows that the West and S. Korea want anything but a war-and will do almost anything to prevent it. Besides that, can you envision Obama starting a war? Didn’t think so.
If your scenario came to pass (heavy bombers, et al) and we won the conflict, what then? Who runs N. Korea? S. Korea? The UN? China? It would be a disaster worthy of WWII.
I’d prefer to just let it stay as is and keep our noses and soldiers out of it. Just let the regime wither on the vine…
regards
I would agree that the renunciation of the armistice makes legal the reoccurrence of hostilities. And that is why I, for one, would like proof-positive verification that North Korea has taken this position.
Kim Jong Il is ill, he’s dying. he’s already chosen his youngest son (who speaks Korean, English, German and I think French) as his successor.
About arming Japan with nukes, bad idea. China already has nukes and though they have peace now, a little more than 60 years ago Japanese were slaughtering millions of Chinese when they invaded China.
China and North Korea are not as close politically as people seem to think. Though the Chinese gov’t claims to be Communist, they aren’t. they keep this title to hold on to claims of legitimacy as they were the only people who held China together when it was being torn apart and raped by world powers. The economy is capitalistic and growing faster than any other in the world. A China has become more and more stable, the gov’t has been actively and continually relaxing it’s grip on things.
Japan and China will not have their nations threatend by an upstart NK. These recent events are political posturing to give Kim Jong Il’s son legitimacy when he takes office. same thing happened when Kim Jong Il took power. After this point, the situation will likely relax again and NK will continue to be brooding and reclusive.
This is a really ill conceived plan with little understanding of the regions modern history. I’d like to read an opinion from someone else who knows a bit about the cultures, histories of the region, maybe even lived there. thoughts?