The Trouble with Mary Robinson
President Obama’s awarding of a Presidential Medal of Freedom to former UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Mary Robinson has sparked widespread criticism. Commentators have pointed to Robinson’s role in the infamous 2001 Durban “anti-racism” conference and, more generally, to what UN Watch has suggested is a long record of bias against Israel.
Oddly enough, however, little has been made of Robinson’s views on America. More specifically, her once-upon-a-time controversial criticisms of the Iraq war and the “war on terror” appear to have fallen into a memory hole.
And yet it is surely the latter — and not her forays into the Middle East conflict — that inspired the current American administration to honor Robinson as an Obamaesque “agent of change.”
As a politician who rose to prominence virtually overnight as a militant opponent of George Bush’s “wrong war of choice,” it is hardly surprising that Obama would want to honor an international dignitary who, back in the day, was one of the more prominent voices to oppose the Iraq war before it happened. Thus, in February 2003, not yet six months after the end of her term as high commissioner, and a month before the start of the U.S.-led invasion, Robinson penned an editorial for the Irish Times titled “War not the way to restore human rights to Iraq”. Never mind that nobody had said that the war was about “restoring human rights” and that Robinson had raised no such objections regarding NATO’s ostensible “humanitarian intervention” in Kosovo four years earlier.
Closely following the playbook established by Jacques Chirac’s and Gerhard Schröder’s Franco-German “axis of peace,” Robinson accused the Bush administration of “unilateralism” and insisted, in the name of international law, that the UN Security Council must be given the last word on whether an intervention would take place. She even remembered to observe that it was the “gearing-up” for a war in Iraq that had caused the American administration to “[lose] so much of the worldwide support and sympathy which were manifest in the months following … 9/11.” This is, of course, just the “myth of squandered sympathy” that one year later would form the centerpiece of the Democratic Party’s failed 2004 presidential campaign.
In that same year, Robinson would take up a professorship at Columbia University in New York. Discussing the Iraq war in a November 2005 interview with Reuters, she remarked cheerfully that “what I find living now in the United States is an encouraging, wide sense of some of the checks and balances kicking in. … In Congress you have, at last, a sense, of ‘we were misled, we should have been more attentive.’” “It was not a legitimate war,” Robinson told Reuters flatly, “and I am glad that more and more people … are coming out to say so.” “The poor, beleaguered people of Iraq are not better off,” she added. Apart from respect for the office of the presidency, why, after all, should Obama not want to honor someone who provided a touch of gravitas to “Bush lied, people died”?
It is interesting to note that in her 2005 Reuters interview, Robinson chose to describe the Iraq war as “illegitimate.” By repeatedly taxing the Yugoslav government with human rights violations in Kosovo in her capacity as UN high commissioner, Robinson herself massively contributed to the public “legitimacy” enjoyed by NATO’s aerial war against Yugoslavia in 1999. But, as it happens, that war was conducted without any UN Security Council mandate.
At the time, this point posed no greater problem to Gerhard Schröder and Jacques Chirac than it did to Mary Robinson. Robinson — along with kindred spirits like Samantha Power or Susan Rice, current American ambassador to the UN — might want to believe that the Kosovo War was somehow “legitimate” even without a UN mandate. But it was obviously illegal under the UN charter, which only recognizes self-defense and threats to international peace as legitimate grounds for states to undertake military action against other states. The charter makes no provision for states to attack other states in the name of defending human rights.
Moreover, Robinson not only criticized the Bush administration over the Iraq war. More fundamentally, while still UN human rights commissioner, Robinson already crossed swords with the Bush administration over its conduct of the war on Islamic terror organizations. Thus, in January 2002, she responded to the opening of the Guantánamo Bay prison camp by insisting that the U.S. must afford Geneva Convention protections not only to captured Taliban fighters, but even to al-Qaeda members.
After years of hectoring by European governments and EU-sponsored NGOs — and following the Supreme Court’s 2006 Hamdan ruling — this would, of course, also become U.S. government policy. But at the time, the idea of affording Geneva Convention protections to members of international terror networks was so wildly counter-intuitive that even the European Parliament rejected it. Rather, the parliament found that the standards set out in the Geneva Conventions “must be revised to respond to the new situations created by the development of international terrorism.”
By contrast, over the next several months, Robinson used her UN bully pulpit to insist that the Geneva Conventions were entirely adequate as is. She also accused the U.S. of responding to the 9/11 attacks in such a way as to undermine civil liberties not only at home, but around the world.
Indeed, Robinson denied outright that the 9/11 attacks constituted an act of war. Thus, for instance, in a June 15, 2002, editorial in the French daily Le Monde, she suggested that talk of a “war” on terrorism was merely an unfortunate choice of words. The fact she herself had called for captured al-Qaeda members to be treated precisely as prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions appeared not to trouble her in this connection.
As if this was a choice between mutually exclusive alternatives, Robinson proposed that instead of talking of “war,” the 9/11 attacks ought rather to be qualified as “crimes against humanity.” The import of the would-be distinction appeared to be that combating the “perpetrators” could then be handled via ordinary civilian jurisdictions — or, at any rate, in some sort of court and not on the battlefield. Thus, in a 2003 foreword to the academic volume Wars on Terrorism and Iraq, she asked:
[M]ay it not have been a strategic error to characterize the attacks of September 11 as requiring a “war on terrorism” rather than as “crimes against humanity” that required intense international military, police, and intelligence cooperation to bring the perpetrators to justice?
The rest of the essay makes clear that the question is merely rhetorical. Thus, for example, Robinson writes that the use of “the language of being ‘at war with terrorism’” had “nefarious” implications. And she suggested that “the terrorists” ought rather “to be branded as terrible criminals” — as if she was entirely unfamiliar with the notion of a “war crime” or as if the designation “terrible criminals” would make al-Qaeda’s declared war on America magically disappear.
For good measure, Robinson also finds space to denounce “a pattern of actions by the administration of President George W. Bush since September 2001 that is at odds with core U.S. and international human rights principals.” Needless to say, the intelligence measures undertaken by the Bush administration to discover and disrupt terror networks come in for special criticism in this regard.
With the Obama administration busily rolling back the “war on terror” in both rhetoric and practice, it is not hard to appreciate why Robinson’s ideas on the subject would endear her to it. As fuzzy as Robinson’s logic may be, the practical upshot is clear: that the United States should return to the pre-9/11 “legal” footing for combating Islamic terror groups.
Among other things, the Presidential Medal of Freedom is awarded for “especially meritorious contributions to the security or national interests of the United States.” Whether Mary Robinson’s agitation against the “war on terror” represents such a contribution is very open to doubt. The most obvious proof to the contrary is provided by the 9/11 attacks themselves.






To be given a medal by a fool isn’t such a great honor, for a menial lackey to receive a medal for espousing a policy of foolishness is a comedy of errors. However, there is a point, when a comedy becomes a tragedy and this has become an epic tragedy.
Your criticisms of Robinson are like criticisms that a sloppy worker would make of a Health and Safety officer.
How many people have died unnecessarily in the Iraqi conflict and how many billions o dollars wasted because it was so unprofessionally thought out. And as your agenda goes, it has only made Israel a more insecure place to be.
Slagging off Mary Robinson with your distorted view of how things happend will only come back to haunt you.
The idea of defining 9/11 and similar terrorist attacks as “crimes against humanity” is attractive, I’ll admit- after all, that was precisely the tack taken by the Allied War Crimes Tribunal (a military court) at Nuremberg. But it overlooks the small detail that before we could bring the Nazi war criminals to justice for their crimes, we first had to defeat their army on the battlefield, destroy their nation’s war-fighting capabilities, occupy and control their country, depose their government, and THEN arrest and try the officials responsible for their numerous and diverse crimes against the rest of the human race.
Demanding the legal procedures in absence of the military operations which end the ability of the criminals to continue their depredations is not “putting the cart before the horse”- it’s expecting the cart to somehow propel itself without any source of motive power.
I admit that such willful ignorance, or total lack of common sense, on the part of Ms. Robinson- or, for that matter, President Obama- does not surprise me. It simply shows that, as is so common with “progressives”, in their case “feelings” trump logic, any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
clear ether
eon
Why is anyone surprised at anything Mary Robinson says. She is a typical leftist Jew hater and Obama showed his true colors when he awarded her the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
I think it’s time to discontinue the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Bush gave it to some extremely unworthy recipients also.
So, Obama has developed themes for the Medal of Freedom, themes that reflect back favorably on him. How very…Obamesque.
I admit to not paying much attention to this, but haven’t there been some rumblings from the White House that perhaps Robinson was not thoroughly vetted. Good grief, as though her leadership of Durban I and views on Israel, Bush and Iraq weren’t already well known. Of course, as you suggest, I’m sure they had no problem with the Bush/Iraq thing (in fact, I see this, much like Jimmy Carter’s Peace Prize, as a slap in the face to GWB), but just how did they expect the other to fly?
Sorry, may I take back the last line of my previous comment as it could be easily misconstrued, my apologies. My only excuse is that I was tired when I wrote it. I meant to say that your reporting, in future, may not be deemed as credible.
Rosenthal, you’re either a liar or an idiot.
Never mind that nobody had said that the war was about “restoring human rights” and that Robinson had raised no such objections regarding NATO’s ostensible “humanitarian intervention” in Kosovo four years earlier.
In the very reading linked to here by Robinson:
In concluding his presentation to the UN Security Council on the situation in Iraq, US Secretary of State Colin Powell recalled Saddam Hussein’s appalling human rights record over the past two decades during which he has shown unspeakable cruelty against his own citizens and also against his neighbours. Secretary Powell reminded the world of the broad range of human rights – civil and political as well as economic, social and cultural – that have been and continue to be violated on a massive scale in Iraq.
Responsibility for these violations falls squarely on the Iraqi government. Saddam Hussein must be held accountable for his actions.
But we must also be honest in saying that international efforts to address the human rights situation in Iraq have been largely absent over the years, and the impact of a decade of economic sanctions imposed by the international community has aggravated greatly the suffering of ordinary Iraqis.
Trying to make Robinson’s opposition to the war in Iraq seem hypocritical because she supported the war in Kosovo, will only work on the pigeon-brained readers of this online fiction site. Robinson is quite clear, she supported the war in Kosovo because it had a clear UN mandate. She opposed the Iraq war for many reasons, one of which was that it didn’t have a clear UN mandate. As an official at the UN, which was ostensibly formed to avoid war when possible, I can’t see how she would have had another opinion. Because the UN is supposed to be a world-representative body, wars that are a product of a process at the UN can be controlled and they have the backing of the world community. Robinson is correct that the Iraq war didn’t have the backing of the world community–its quite obvious that that backing wasn’t sought because it would never have been given.
As I said, then, you’re either a liar or an idiot. The issues I’ve outlined here aren’t for everyone. If you can’t even read the entire excerpt in which Robinson outlines “who” it was that said the war was ostensibly a democracy building excercise, then I don’t expect you to understand any of the issues at stake here. You’re just a fool, like your readers.
So it’s the usual PJM tactics: she said something bad about Israel, therefore she must be destroyed by any means possible. It’s getting old, just like the generation of American Jews obsessed with Israel. Younger Jews are just plain sick of hearing about the place.
I see the anti semite ‘libtard’ hordes are out in force maybe they would like to tell us what was used against the Kurds by Saddamm couldn’t have been a WMD could it oh of course not no and do you REALLY think the world would have been a SAFER place with Saddam in Iraq and Al Queda running rampant in Afghanistan. If you do you are more MORONIC than I already think you are and let me tell you I think comparing ‘libtards’ to MORONS is an insult to MORONS.
Robinson is just another mentally-challenged left-wing flake,like Obamaflake and the O-toids he has around him.
I see the anti semite ‘libtard’ hordes are out in force maybe they would like to tell us what was used against the Kurds by Saddamm couldn’t have been a WMD could it oh of course not no and do you REALLY think the world would have been a SAFER place with Saddam in Iraq and Al Queda running rampant in Afghanistan.
I see that you’re disputing Rosenthal’s contention that “Never mind that nobody had said that the war was about “restoring human rights”….good for you. At least you’re honest.
Mary Robinson is a garden variety anti-Semite. Barack (wherever he was born Osama, and I would bet big money it wasn’t in Hawaii) is a garden variety anti-Semite. Put 2 and 2 together and you get a garden variety anti-Semite winning a prestigious honor in the greatest country in the world. If not for my late mother who taught me to always be polite, I would tell you what I really think about Mary Robinson. By the way, I’m Catholic.
An honor given to an anti-Semite in words and actions is not much of an honor to be given by an anti-semite in actions. whose words are false.
Mary Robinson has a long record – along with other Irish Presidents and PM’s – of providing endless, narrow, moral lectures to the United States, and I’m extremely proud as an American to see so many of my countrymen rejecting Ireland’s latest, noisiest exemplar of sanctimonious advice-giving.
After 9/11 she became a more serious nuisance. Robinson’s serial, panicked calls for a halt to all bombing in Afghanistan were based on predicted humanitarian disasters and massacres that never materialized. (Humorously, on one occasion she informed Tim O’Brien of the Irish Times that the information on which she based her criticisms of the US war effort “was coming from news reports”; Irish Times, Oct 13, 2001).
To the pro-Robinson commenters here, some of whom are probably posting from outside the USA, please understand that Robinson’s advice to us after 9/11 – that we curtail our usual American “hatred and aggression” (her words on 9/21/01) – that we choose the application of international law to al Qaeda was worse than risible to us. I have not forgotten it, and it appears I am not alone. (Irish Times; Sept 24, 2001: “Ms. Mary Robinson said that, had [the International Criminal Court] been in existence, it could have prosecuted those responsible for the [9/11] attacks.”)
She is very like some of her predecessors in Irish government, who born out of that same amalgam of sanctimony and self-interest expressed itself most memorably when Ireland’s founder Éamon de Valera made his condolences to the German Minister at the news of Hitler’s death. (Even fewer people in and out of Ireland who know about this, also know that on the day the Germans surrendered a mob attacked the British embassy and American legation, smashing every window; and even fewer people know that future Irish PM Charley Haughey was at the head of that very mob!).
But I digress. A closer look at Mary Robinson reveals that she is just another hectoring, lecturing international elite with more money and houses than the rest of us would know what to do with (just the type of hypocrite to be lecturing everyone about global warming too):
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/leaving-post-certainly–wont-mean-hard-times-for-expresident-314050.html
Hardly someone who sets an example for Americans to celebrate (says this American).
Make no mistake about. This Whitehouse (isn’t that racist, and when will they remedy that?) doesn’t make mistakes. What you see is what you get. That has been obvious to some of us, but, alas, many don’t get it. Which raises that unanswerable question: Are they schmucks or are they putzs?
Shef Rogers – IF, like you say, young Jews are “sick of hearing about the place” it is because it’s an inconvenience for them that there are Jews who dare being proud of their heritage and are also willing to defend themselves rather than be led to the slaughter house. What they forget is that they can deny their heritage as much as they want, but when the next Hitler pops out of the woodwork, they will be happy that there were courageous Jews that fought with their lives to make sure that there is always a place for ALL Jews, even the ones that right now will be happy to renounce their heritage.
Shef Rogers – you’re probably sick of hearing about the Holocaust too. Why can’t those damn Jews just shut up already, right?
Dear MOHO: Regardless of YOUR views of the Iraq war, Robinson is, in fact, a Jew hating socialist. Is that why you go to her defense? And by your stating…:
“Robinson is correct that the Iraq war didn’t have the backing of the world community–its quite obvious that that backing wasn’t sought because it would never have been given.”
…you show your true colors. 23 NATIONS WENT TO WAR against that madman Saddam. And since when is the “backing of the world community” required to wage war? Oh, I know, when one is a socialist, “one-worlder”, who has more faith is the UN than their own country. And in Robinson’s case, when one is an elistist, Jew hating, socialist. Spare us your dishonest commentary.
John, you are coeect as to Robinson’s anti-US as well as anti-semitic actions. Contray to several of your posters, the UN never approved our attack on Serbia, and she never suppoted our actions there. Clinton was right as to the humanitarian atrocity situation, and the Congress allowed it, and we did prevent a genocidal atrocity, but no credit goes to her or the UN.
Her personal involvment in allowing the Taliban and Saddam (thru the Oil for Food fraud)to use UN facilities to facilitate what was clearly anti human rights crimes should have got her indicted, not honored.
Awarding the Presidential Medal of Freedom to an ignorant bigot who opposed the liberation of 28 million people is just the latest obamanation in this embarrassingly ridiculous excuse for an already failed presidency.
How easy it is to disrupt conversations at Pajamas! The appearance of heat and affect are easy to achieve, yet serve to keep the discussion shallow.
Mr. Rosenthal began his piece by distinguishing between most of the current criticism of Robinson – her “record of bias against Israel” – and what it was that he had hoped to focus on, “Robinson’s views on America.”
Subject at hand: “And yet it is surely [Robinson's highly publicized, and controversial criticisms of the Iraq war and the 'war on terror'] — and not her forays into the Middle East conflict — that inspired the current American administration to honor Robinson as an Obamaesque ‘agent of change.’”
Two other PJM blogs about Robinson this week directly touched on the Middle East. In this thread it is plain to see how easy it is to troll the crowd away from an equally worthy, though different theme.
Israel has been violating the human rights of the Palestenians ever since the land was stolen from them in 1947.I know the truth hurts those who sympathize with Israel.But they don’t even respect what the U.S. tells them. God forbid someone says something about Israel or it’s people it’s considered anti- semetic!! But it’s o.k. for them to destroy homes in the gaza strip with no regard for anyone but themselves!! SHAME ON THEM!!! Mary Robinson’s 100% right!!!
I don’t know why my first comment was posted then taken off, but as long as Israel is allowed to carry on the way they have been, we will never have peace in the middle east!!!! That land was stolen from the Palestenians in 1947!!! Think people!! After years of failed diplomacy, they are resorting to violence. Israel has all our technology. It takes a brave country like Israel to shoot missles at people who have only stones and bottles!! Mary Robinson has her opinion just as the powerful Jewish congress in this country does!!
To James Gatto: The stupid people in Gaza and the surrounding areas have contributed nothing to the Middle East, except goat shit. The Jews are in Israel because they have lived there for thousands of years. They have a vibrant country and they will stay there forever with or without the Manchurian candidate in the White House. Deal with it communist chump.
What any sane person, who cares about the well being of Palestinians, should advise Palestinians to do is get the hell out of Palestine. Palestinians are nothing but a pawn or set of pawns in an unending battle between Islam or pan-Arabia and the West. If you are a Palestinian and you have self-respect or you love your spouse and children then get the family together and get out of Palestine. Ask for money from the UN to support the move. If you cannot bring yourself to leave Palestine, or at least send your family out, then you are a victim of a romantic illusion. You love your hell.
EdGI,
You raise an interesting point. Follow the money. Did Mary Robinson profit from “Oil for Food?” While the law practices of herself and her spouse may be successful it is unclear to me how she has obtained her considerable wealth. She is now part of the anti-semitic sewer that has been entrenched at Columbia University. The International Affairs school there under John Coatsworth has become an open sore. Who sponsored her? Who paid the bills and who benefits? Robinson represents a trifecta as she demonstrates the links between Columbia (where she is with Coatsworth and others who have drawn attention, as when Ahmadinejehad was invited and where there have been a series of anti-semitic incidents), Harvard (where both she and Obama went to law school), and Chicago (where both Obama and Coatsworth were employed).
Let’s start with Rosenthal’s first link: what UN Watch has suggested ‘is a long record of bias against Israel.’
The UN Watch is a leading voice at the UN in combating anti-Semitism and the demonization of Israel. As with AIPAC and the ADL they see the main reason for their existence is to stifle “any”, no matter how fair, criticism of the state of Israel and its policies.
He gives an article that is blindly biased without showing readers Robinson’s side of the story or any alternative view; e.g. U.N. Human Rights Commissioner Mary Robinson Latest Casualty of Mideast Conflict. By Ian Williams, Or John Dugard’s UN report (which UN Watch immediately slammed.). Or Desmond Tutu’s (a fellow nominee of the Medal of Freedom) views in his article “Apartheid in the Holy Land”.
There are millions of people who are critical of Israel’s ongoing policies towards the Palestinians, and they are not anti-Semitic and there are a “few” people who are very “quick in pulling out the race card”.
We go onto Rosenthal’s next link “War not the way to restore human rights to Iraq”. Unlike other commenter’s on this page and I dare say Rosenthal himself, I have read this article, and Robinson, that far back was right on the ball.
E.g. “We must understand fully how such a conflict could widen the rapidly deepening gulf between the West and the Islamic world and also accentuate divides across the Atlantic and within Europe itself; how it might erode respect for international law and bolster terrorist organizations; how it could be seen as international decision making by coercion rather than by consensus.”
All that she has stated in the above paragraph has come to pass. And then we have Moho’s astute comment No, 8 on this page.
In the next paragraph Rosenthal links to a previous article of his, “myth of squandered sympathy” conveniently forgetting; She even remembered to observe that it was the “gearing-up” for a war in Iraq that had caused the American administration to “[lose] so much of the worldwide support and sympathy which were manifest in the months following … 9/11.”
All a person has to do is look up the opinion polls of the support on going to war with Iraq to get an idea of how much international sympathy was lost to the Bush American administration which was what Robinson was referring to. One would think that Rosenthal be able to read his own articles without suffering Information Bias Syndrome.
Rosenthal’s next link a November 2005 interview with Reuters, is another time Robinson was right on the ball, “It was not a legitimate war,” “The poor, beleaguered people of Iraq are not better off,” November 2005. And again we have Moho’s astute comment No, 8 on this page.
Thus, in January 2002, she responded to the opening of the Guantánamo Bay prison camp by insisting that the U.S. must afford Geneva Convention protections not only to captured Taliban fighters, but even to al-Qaeda members.
Supreme Court’s 2006 Hamdan ruling-Brushing aside administration pleas not to second-guess the commander in chief during wartime, a five-justice majority ruled that the commissions, which were outlined by Bush in a military order on Nov. 13, 2001, were neither authorized by federal law nor required by military necessity, and ran afoul of the Geneva Conventions.
So she was right again.
Then Rosenthal shows that he has a real problem with narcissism with a link to his delusional writing even the European Parliament rejected it.
Obama Orders Guantanamo Closed – EU Voted to Keep It Open
January 22nd, 2009
Europe agrees how to open door to dozens of Guantánamo detainees
guardian.co.uk – Jan 23, 2009
Notice the dates- Rosenthal’s article, January 22nd, 2009, guardian.co.uk – Jan 23, 2009
Rosenthal does go on being delusional in his belief that he understands law than Mary Robinson who studied law at Trinity College, Dublin and Harvard Law School. In her twenties, she was appointed Reid Professor of Law in the college, considered to be a prestigious appointment made to accomplished lawyers.
And let’s remember that it was due to Mary Robinson’s work at the 2001 Durban Conference there was no anti-Semitic language in the final declaration.
Life of the Mind -
While provocateurs argue on about Israel ON THE WRONG THREAD, they successfully divert our attention from Mr. Rosenthal’s unexplored theme.
You’re on the right wicket about following the money, but the trail may have grown too cold by now.
There WAS a former Prime Minister of Ireland who was embroiled in the oil-for-food scandal. Albert Reynolds, himself no stranger to the worst sorts of anti-America-spouting, and whose term was concurrent with Robinson’s presidency, was implicated in Saddam’s elaborate scam in the same recovered documents that also implicated British MP George Galloway and the French minister Charles Pasqua.
Reynolds’ subsequent denials (as chairman of the board of an Irish oil exploration company called Bula Resources) were contradicted by an Iraqi oilman named Riad el Taher, who was listed in the documents as being one of Saddam’s agents in the scheme, and was also a Bula director. He claimed to have informed Reynolds about the kick-backs, asking any reasonable person how Reynolds couldn’t have known?
As far as I know nothing ever came of that case. Things-Irish often slip by “under the radar,” so to speak, a fact not lost on and exploited by too many of that country’s denizens. (Bula was not the only Irish company involved in Saddam’s bribe-and-kickback scheme.)
Am I warming to your theme? Try this out then if you like the feeling that all you can see is the tip of the iceberg:
In 2004, a public relations executive named Bill O’Herlihy confirmed that his fees for lobbying Irish politicians and Government officials to lift sanctions on Iraq were paid by Bula Resources.
“Mr O’Herlihy was hired by controversial Iraqi businessman Riad El Taher between 1998 and 2000, after introductions were made by Brid Rosney, the former special adviser to President Mary Robinson.
“Ms Rosney yesterday confirmed that she had met Mr El Taher when he visited the United Nation some time in the late 1990s.
“Ms Rosney, who is now RTE’s Director of Communications, had continued to work as an adviser to Mrs Robinson when she was appointed UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, before subsequently taking up employment with O’Herlihy PR. …
“An estimated 80,000 [Euro] was paid to the O’Herlihy PR during that period, or around 3,000 [Euro] a week.
“Yesterday Mr O’Herlihy told the Sunday Independent that his company’s fees were paid by Bula Resources, although he thought the final bill was closer to 50,000 [Euro]. …
“Former Taoiseach Albert Reynolds last week confirmed that he had visited Iraq in 1998 for ‘humanitarian’, rather than for political or economic reasons. …”
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1131534&issue_id=10480
Hey still brain bill, make your mind move before your mouth fool! The U.S. is hated because of Israel! The only communists are Israel and misinformed dimwits like yourself.
President Barack Obama
The White House
Washington, DC
August 10, 2009
Dear Mr. President:
We, the directors and senior staff of the undersigned Israeli human rights organizations, would like to publicly support your choice of Mrs. Mary Robinson to receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom award. Mrs. Robinson deserves this honor for a lifetime of unflagging support to the cause of human rights in its many dimensions.
We are greatly saddened by the media furor that has been generated by statements from AIPAC and the ADL, who have referred to Mrs. Robinson’s “long public record of hostility and one-sided bias against the Jewish state,” and “animus” towards Israel, respectively. These statements contain factual errors and are misleading, particularly with regard to the Durban anti-racism conference. Such rhetoric distracts attention from the real issues that need to be addressed to foster peace and security for Israel and its neighbors.
As leaders of a sector within Israeli civil society that monitors and often criticizes government and military policy for violating human rights, we do not see such actions as plausible reason for denying Mrs. Robinson the award. We believe that holding Israel accountable to its obligations under international law is part of the role of the international community through agencies like the United Nations and others.
Furthermore, we had the opportunity to meet with Mary Robinson and her staff when she visited Israel in 2008 as head of a delegation of eminent women leaders. We saw firsthand her genuine commitment to human rights principles. During her 2008 visit, we understand that Mrs. Robinson met with a broad spectrum of Israelis including officials like Mayor of Sderot Eli Moyal, Israeli Supreme Court Chief Justice Dorit Beinisch, as well as members of the Peace and Security Council, a group of retired senior military officials who provide expert opinions on security matters, and with human rights activists.
We urge those who voice this unwarranted criticism to turn their attention to finding constructive solutions to the challenges that stand in the way of peace and acknowledge Mary Robinson – who has worked diligently for the promotion of human rights and conflict resolution – as the deserving recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
With sincere thanks,
Hagai Elad
Executive Director, Association for Civil Rights in Israel
Dr. Dalia Dromi
Executive Director, Bimkom –Planners for Planning Rights
Jessica Montell
Executive Director, B’Tselem
Advocate Sari Bashi
Executive Director, Gisha – Legal Center for Freedom of Movement
Dalia Kerstein
Executive Director, Hamoked – Center for the Defense of the Individual
Hadas Ziv
Executive Director, Physicians for Human Rights – Israel
Yehudit Elkana
Founder and Board Member, Yesh Din – Volunteers for Human Rights
To James “scatter brain” Gatto: I regard it as a badge of honor that the terrorist scum in the Middle East hate us. Who cares what these murdering vermin think about the greatest country in the world? They are stupid people. I have more respect for the goats in Gaza than I do for the moronic humans living there.
Frank, your refutation that “UN Watch” is an unworthy organization presents no examples, therefore I dismiss it. The following paragraph is not evidence, but merely your opinion:
“As with AIPAC and the ADL they see the main reason for their existence is to stifle ‘any’, no matter how fair, criticism of the state of Israel and its policies.”
Nor do you offer examples in your next paragraph, but only glosses about who rejected whom. Though the mention of Desmond Tutu is supposed to carry some sort of weight in lieu of an actual argument, his mention as a fellow nominee worsens your case to many PJMers.
On the question of Israel you have offered nothing more substantial than a provocative attitude.
So let us leave Israel then, which was at any rate not Mr. Rosenthal’s stated theme.
You next quote Mary Robinson on the Iraq War (and I thank you for leaving off of Israel, at last):
It is instructive to me that you believe Robinson was “that far back … right on the ball.” Please know that I do not doubt that you believe this, and also that I respect you for taking the time to state your belief.
Robinson [your quotation] : “We must understand fully how such a conflict could widen the rapidly deepening gulf between the West and the Islamic world and also accentuate divides across the Atlantic and within Europe itself; how it might erode respect for international law and bolster terrorist organizations; how it could be seen as international decision making by coercion rather than by consensus.”
Isn’t it curious that you believe Robinson’s account with all of your heart, and that someone like myself – a middle-aged artist at that – could be just as convinced that Robinson is perfectly wrong-headed and misguided on all counts.
More specifically, that some of the things she stated have indeed come to pass I comprehend as being small victories on the way to saving our world from ruin (ergo, the opposite – which is Robinson’s “wrong-headedness” – becomes the endangerment of that same world. For this sort of poetic contrariety may I introduce you to the prophetic writings of the poet William Blake, and his famous reversal of “angels” and “devils.”)
The argument is that each of the following are necessary preliminary steps towards a world order that ultimately best resembles the way that western liberal democracies keep themselves safe and secure – from each other and from themselves. All while ensuring the maximum of liberties that we tend to take for granted.
I don’t understand how, if Robinson’s 1. and 2. below are correct, it automatically follows that that’s bad. The injunction hat we only agree – and that any lack of agreement whatsoever comprises a failure – is the shakiest of principles. I submit that it does not rise to the level of principle at all.
1. how such a conflict could widen the rapidly deepening gulf between the West and the Islamic world;
2. how such a conflict could accentuate divides across the Atlantic and within Europe itself.
As for her following 3rd point, we took a course (mostly) that what terrorist organizations respected was not our fine feelings, our adherence to our own, non-Sharia laws and an aversion to wood-chippers (see below) but a forceful resolve. The moment has passed to try it another way, I understand regrettably for you, and we can’t take that other door now. But it appears that “bolstering terrorist organizations” is not how things worked out ultimately, and we now have a sharper eye for the shenanigans and wiles of less-than-rights-respecting regimes everywhere:
3. how it might erode respect for international law and bolster terrorist organizations; how it could be seen as international decision making by coercion rather than by consensus.
As to the myth of anyone squandering the world’s “sympathy” following the 9/11 attacks on the US, Rosenthal’s claim is all-too rare, and entirely accurate. It brings this writer a deep sense of relief to hear it. The “polls” that you refer to were utterly fantastic to many of those Americans living in Europe at the time. Please read any of Bruce Bawer’s accounts from Norway, which perfectly duplicated what I and my colleagues were observing in Ireland. That experience changed my life entirely. I won’t tolerate anyone who wasn’t there to lecture me on what I actually experienced. There was little to no sympathy.
Please, read and learn from my exhaustive compilation on one country (may I direct you to the “letters to the editor” section): http://www.geocities.com/irelandvus911
I suppose that I could go on, refuting your every point:
- on the war’s “legitimacy” (one wonders where does legitimacy ultimately reside for you?);
- on whether Iraqi’s and the world are better off without a madmen and his sociopath heirs who got their Caligula-like jollies feeding fully-conscious humans into wood chippers?
- on Robinson’s insistence in 2002 that the US afford Geneva Convention protections to those who daily denied them to us? (And which we extended them anyway, save for the 3 cases where we administered water-boarding, thank heavens!);
- the Supreme Court’s fatuous and ill-considered 2006 Hamdan ruling, which if nothing else further alerted Americans of my persuasion to the hazards of an innovative judiciary (and the subsequent reversals by that same court of court-mandated legislation that had been devised in a fully bi-partisan fashion to deal with the status of these “extra-Geneva” cases, famously labelled by Justice Roberts as a bait-and-switch);
- the implication that Robinson, who attended law school, should thereby know more about the law than Rosenthal (she apprehends civil law well enough, but hasn’t any capacity for common law, which may be a key psychological distinction to be made about all of our differences, and is a recapitulation of many an argument between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson);
- “Moho’s” argument, which was a valid one that I thought of myself but that I stopped reading when I realized that the writer is completely lacking in civility, and thus not worthy of good company and our attentions.
As you can see, I am someone who understands Robinson to be incorrect in every case. To use a Germanic distinction, her spirit is right, but her soul is misguided. In Aristotle’s terms she is a well-honed instrument of of “theoria” and “techne,” but seems utterly deficient in “phronesis,” a.k.a prudence.
Finally – and unfortunately – you end with your own ad hominem comment on Mr Rosenthal (narcissistic and “delusional”) which – and you must be careful here – generally has the effect of weakening an argument among intelligent people of good faith.
I will not comment on the Durban Conference since, as I must repeat, this is not the place. It is not respectful to the argument at hand. But then I see that too many are more interested in barking at others than they are in actual content.
Dear T O’Connor please read the following;
“Future seminars will deal with other specific groups against whom intolerance is directed in many parts of the world, notably Muslims and migrants—groups which overlap, but each of which, sadly, encounters prejudice in its own right.
Yet anti-Semitism is certainly a good place to start because, throughout history, it has been a unique manifestation of hatred, intolerance and persecution. Anti-Semitism has flourished even in communities where Jews have never lived, and it has been a harbinger of discrimination against others.
The rise of anti-Semitism anywhere is a threat to people everywhere. Thus, in fighting anti-Semitism we fight for the future of all humanity.”
“Future seminars will deal with other specific groups against whom bigotry is directed in many parts of the world, notably Muslims and migrants—groups which overlap, but each of which, sadly, encounters bigotry in its own right.
Yet bigotry is certainly a good place to start because, throughout history, it has been a unique manifestation of hatred, intolerance and persecution. Bigotry has flourished even in communities where Jews have never lived, and it has been a harbinger of discrimination against others.
The rise of bigotry anywhere is a threat to people everywhere. Thus, in fighting bigotry we fight for the future of all humanity”
In the report where the top paragraphs are taken from:
‘Anti-Semitic’ occurs 39 times.
‘Anti-Semitism’ occurs 319 times.
‘Bigots’ occurs once.
‘Bigot’ occurs zero times.
‘Bigotry’ occurs zero times.
A bigot is a person who is obstinately and irrationally, often intolerantly, devoted to his or her own religion, political party, organization, belief, or opinion, especially one who regards or treats those of differing devotion with hatred and intolerance. Bigotry is the corresponding mindset or action.
The term bigot is often misused to pejoratively label those who merely oppose or disagree with the devotion of another. The correct use of the term, however, requires the elements of obstinacy, irrationality, and animus toward those of differing devotion.
Information bias is a type of cognitive bias. Information bias occurs due to people’s curiosity and confusion of goals when trying to choose a course of action.
A cognitive bias is a person’s tendency to make errors in judgment based on cognitive factors, and is a phenomenon studied in cognitive science and social psychology. Forms of cognitive bias include errors in statistical judgment, social attribution, and memory that are common to all human beings. Such biases drastically skew the reliability of anecdotal and legal evidence. These are thought to be based upon heuristics, or rules of thumb, which people employ out of habit or evolutionary necessity.
Tim, I won’t insult you by calling you self-obsessed or narcissistic but I do think that you, like every-one on the planet, me included, have problem processing information.
This is a reply to your first sentence to me, and this is all that you are getting unless you can prove that you do proper research.
PS. Self-obsessed UN Watch is the author of the report I am referring to (top paragraphs).
Frank, all I asked in my first sentence (immediately above) was that you provide some sort of an example in your argument, which taken alone is hardly a problem with MY “research.” I see that you agreed with me – at least tacitly – since you have now provided quotations from your source, just as I have done all along.
Your problem with my argument seems not to be with my research, as you claim, but with my interpretation of what my examples mean, which you also claim. The latter qualification is fair enough, especially in that you have refrained from any ad hominem comments. I appreciate that, as just about anyone does.
To answer the main thrust of your example, I do not see why anti-Semitism isn’t a perfectly good place to start an analysis of intolerance. That might be where I’d start too, as long as the study moved on to encompass ALL forms of intolerance, which from the quotation you’ve provided promises that this study does too. I frankly don’t see a problem, but if you do then I suggest you start your own study. The idea that the number of times the phrase “anti-Semitism” is repeated thereby disqualifies something from serious consideration is not the way I approach any kind of scholarship. I have some Native American friends who write extensively about there plight, their collective past and their future prospects. They have much to tell me about my own culture, but I do not dismiss them if they use repeat the phrase “Native American” overmuch! Of course they do, and of course anyone does who studies the usually sorry history of western expansion.
Perhaps if my friends focused solely on their story, to the exclusion of any other identity group or even to the detriment of other ethnic groups, I might look suspiciously on their general psychological health. But that doesn’t seem to be implicated in the example you have provided. You must have some other criterion that remains hidden from view, and I think I might know what it is. It would save everyone a lot of time – especially yourself – if you were to become familiar with some of the “post-Modern” understandings of the concept of “bias.” Indeed, some of them are not so “PoMo” at all, having been visited and elaborated most of the great thinkers. (I gave a suggestion with Aristotle’s “phronesis” above, which you can find in the Nichomachean Ethics.)
More recent examples spring from Edmund Burke, and our own John Adams. I am studying aspects of American Pragmatism and certain American poetics, such as Wallace Stevens for their various attitudes to betterment – individual and social – which refuse to abandon the concrete particulars of the circumstances and poetry of our lives and societies. In Whitehead’s phrasing, “the purpose of philosophy is to rationalize mysticism … Philosophy is akin to poetry, and both of them seek to express that ultimate good sense which we term civilization.”
When I asked you above concerning the Iraq War’s “legitimacy” where it is that any legitimacy ultimately reside for you, I believed that I was asking the question of a mystic.
If you believe that there is a place where any human can possibly stand that is outside of “bias” then I would say that you are this sort of mystic. And I would say that of anyone, and have, no matter what there political orientation.
But consider how many of the wisest people have conducted themselves throughout history, by seeking the truth out of their immediate circumstances, and hoping for the best.
You seem to know, and know for everyone else I hasten to add, that we can stand outside of ourselves in the way that I think is an impossibility. And I suppose that you believe that there are a chosen few who can do just this, and who ought to be instructing the rest of us. To many of the people who visit PJM, those are the very types, nonsensical, idealistic mystics who usually cause the most trouble with their innovations and advanced fixes.
For an example that sticks to our subject (and I suppose that we can hazard mention of the Middle East, though I think that was a boorish thing of everyone to do on this thread) it was Mary Robinson’s outfit (the UN) and even Mary Robinson’s unrealistic thinking itself that got those poor, unarmed Irish peacekeepers beaten by Hezbollah in Lebanon in 2002. Who could have guessed that Hezbollah wouldn’t go along with the internationalist’s narrative that love is better than hate? I’ll tell you who: an 80 year old farmer who lives down the road from me. He’s a mystic too, to begin with anyway. Only he seeks to move away from his mysticism “toward that ultimate good sense which we term civilization.” Can you understand what I am saying? I really hope that you can, if only to understand that there are many good ways ways to be in the world, and so many ways to respect one another. I think that’s something everyone could use to remember right now.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/irish-soldier-in-hospital-after-beating-308976.html
James Gatto – Israel is communist? Israel is a pure democracy and has always been on the side of freedom against communism (western airplanes against Russians rings a bell?). America does not need Israel to be hated you fool. People hate the US because it’s a great democracy.
Israel violated Palestinian human rights since 1947? There were no Palestinians before 1967, you fool and no land was stolen from anyone: Israel won a war that was started by her enemies and the enemies lost. Never in history a losing aggressor got the lost territory back; otherwise we’ll be constantly fighting, since there is no consequence to losing a war. Yes, you can be labeled as an anti-Semite because you are spreading lies about Jews. Also, you say that “Israel is fighting with American technology against people with stones”: How about 8,000 rockets aimed and fired at civilians? How about thousands of Israeli civilians murdered by suicide bombers and other terrorists?
Mr. Gatto, you are right about one thing – the truth hurts.
Dear T O’Connor, look in the brackets, please.
“Future seminars will deal with other specific groups against whom (intolerance) is directed in many parts of the world, notably Muslims and migrants
“Future seminars will deal with other specific groups against whom (bigotry) is directed in many parts of the world, notably Muslims and migrants
—groups which overlap, but each of which, sadly, encounters (prejudice) in its own right.
—groups which overlap, but each of which, sadly, encounters (bigotry) in its own right.
Yet (anti-Semitism) is certainly a good place to start because, throughout history, it has been a unique manifestation of hatred, intolerance and persecution.
Yet (bigotry) is certainly a good place to start because, throughout history, it has been a unique manifestation of hatred, intolerance and persecution.
(Anti-Semitism) has flourished even in communities where Jews have never lived, and it has been a harbinger of discrimination against others.
(Bigotry) has flourished even in communities where Jews have never lived, and it has been a harbinger of discrimination against others.
The rise of (anti-Semitism) anywhere is a threat to people everywhere. Thus, in fighting (anti-Semitism) we fight for the future of all humanity.”
The rise of (bigotry) anywhere is a threat to people everywhere. Thus, in fighting (bigotry) we fight for the future of all humanity”
“as long as the study (moved on) to encompass ALL forms of intolerance,”
“as long as the study (started) to encompass ALL forms of intolerance,”
“I do not see why (anti-Semitism) isn’t a perfectly good place to start an analysis of intolerance.”
“I do not see why (bigotry) isn’t a perfectly good place to start an analysis of intolerance.”
“The idea that the number of times the phrase “(anti-Semitism)” is repeated thereby disqualifies something from serious consideration is not the way I approach any kind of scholarship.”
“The idea that the number of times the phrase “(bigotry)” is repeated thereby disqualifies something from serious consideration is not the way I approach any kind of scholarship.”
“Perhaps if my friends focused solely on their story, to the exclusion of any other identity group or even to the detriment of other ethnic groups, I might look suspiciously on their general psychological health. But that ‘doesn’t seem to be implicated’(?) in the example you have provided.”
“Information bias is a type of cognitive bias. Information bias occurs due to people’s curiosity and confusion of goals when trying to choose a course of action.”
“since you have now provided quotations from your source,”
My source is the “UN Watch”, itself.
Hint: Imagine that you are a pawn.
Good luck.
Frank, this sounds like a classic case of “four legs good, two legs bad.”
You might even want to take a look at the book that line comes from.
See ya buddy.
Yes, Orwell’s argument is so pertinent in this case.
Thank you Tim.
Mary Robinson provided moral, political and judicial support for islamofascist organizations in Israel land of Palestine for many years. Her activity ignites anti-Semitism around the world leading to attacks on Israel and Israel retaliation, which resulted in deaths of thousands of innocent people including children on both sides of the ME conflict. She personally responsible for their deaths and must be put on trial. Mary Robinson deserves a death penalty for crimes she committed for years.
The following:
Hagai Elad
Executive Director, Association for Civil Rights in Israel
Dr. Dalia Dromi
Executive Director, Bimkom –Planners for Planning Rights
Jessica Montell
Executive Director, B’Tselem
Advocate Sari Bashi
Executive Director, Gisha – Legal Center for Freedom of Movement
Dalia Kerstein
Executive Director, Hamoked – Center for the Defense of the Individual
Hadas Ziv
Executive Director, Physicians for Human Rights – Israel
Yehudit Elkana
Founder and Board Member, Yesh Din – Volunteers for Human Rights
are essentially agents of the European Union, lavishly paid and entertained by antisemitic bodies and institutions to topple Israel from within.
Their claim to represent Human rights is fraudulent. They represent exclusively the Arab “right” to destroy Jews, jewish life and Jewish property using all means available to Arabs, inclusive but not limited to drive-by shootings at jewish civilians and wholesale murder by bus and public-place bombings.
So, quoting them as good-faith Jewish recommendation for Human Rights is the same as making lord Haw-Haw a good-faith British recommendation for Hitler
Noddy Robinson also walked out on her job as President of Ireland to take a job with the UN, insulting one of the highest offices in the land and the people that had voted for her.
The bad news for the cons and the neo cons is that Brown supports health care reform and is “on board†with most of the national trend as far as many issues go.