The Straw Men of the Left
When I was a lad my father gave me one piece of advice concerning politics: “Son, the Democratic Party cares about the poor whereas the Republican Party cares only for the rich.” I believed him as would most five-year-olds. Luckily, later in life upon meeting actual conservatives and studying their works, I developed second thoughts. Firsthand experience with the welfare state moved me even further to the right. Unfortunately, my dad — while in countless ways a more knowledgeable man than I — knew nothing about politics. However, his take on Republicans was fairly typical. The quip regarding the GOP being disinterested in “the poor” is but a leftist straw man posing as a legitimate argument. It is full of emotion but signifies dysfunction alone. Moreover, it is a fallacy, and this particular brand of irrationality occurs when one ignores another’s “actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of that position” in its stead.
Conservatives are vested in the unfortunate. We are troubled by the vast discrepancy that exists between the intentions of the pseudo-liberals and the welfare state they created, one that entrenches and continues to expand the underclass.
The Great Society was a great disaster. It continues to provide incentives for the needy to remain destitute and has destroyed millions of family structures.
Why should women marry men when they can marry the government? Why should they improve their lives when a monthly check ensures a (subsistent) living?
Most on the right wish to overhaul the system. We believe that the solution to penury is three letters long: “j-o-b.”
Republicans would like to see governmental obstacles — excessive taxation, mindless regulations, and an anti-business climate — removed, which would allow the wonder of economic growth to finally win the war on poverty.
Alas, all of these facts are inconvenient for the left, who can neither answer them nor explain how raising taxes and inflating the Leviathan is going to get our nation out of a recession.
Therefore, in order to maintain power, pseudo-liberals deliberately disseminate lies about the motivations of conservatives even though they never consult with us long enough to know what they are in the first place. They distort, deceive, and confuse the general public as a vehicle to win elections and remake society.
The results of the 2008 election reveal that their nefarious, timeless strategies remain successful. For this reason, constructing straw men is a practice as endemic to Democrats as self-righteousness, worrying about (life-sustaining) carbon dioxide, and the uproarious belief that taxes are charity.
Yet recognizing their dishonorable approach to discourse is only a quarter of the battle. Refuting their mumbo-jumbo is a challenge for most conservatives who, unlike their foes, are constrained by the limits of logic.
Naive Republicans — those who have yet to experience a partisan drone baptism by bile — dispute policy scenarios in good faith but soon discover that their opponents ignore their points entirely. Their contentions are met with personal attacks alone.
The leftist does not attempt to refute the rightist. Instead he, in the words of Lenin, seeks to “wipe him from the face of the earth.” It is the fictional conservative, as opposed to the ideas the real one verbalizes, who becomes the focus for statist rage.
Barack Obama is a devout practitioner of this black, emotional art. A glaring example of his addiction to the straw man technique came during the (pathetically limited) legislative quarrel over the stimulus bill.
The president boasted that it was a showdown between himself and those who wished to do nothing about the recession. He instructed his countrymen, “Nothing is not an option. You didn’t send me to Washington to do nothing.”
Gee, which GOP politician campaigned on the platform of doing nothing? Obama did not say. This is quite telling. He favors fencing with imaginary partners to mixing swords with real human beings.
Contrary to his assertion, conservative plans abounded concerning the economy. We wanted to suspend the payroll tax, slash income tax rates permanently, and cut the confiscation rates for businesses along with those for capital gains.
All of these proposals would have put more money in the hands of the people and less in the coffers of the federocracy … which is why they were all non-starters for the Democratic Party. Any option that lessens their control over the general population is verboten.
If Obama acknowledged this truth it would remove the mote from the eyes of his supporters, some of whom honestly believe that the pseudo-liberals represent “the little guy.”
The fundamental assumption made by left-liberals about reality is that ordinary citizens are basically incompetent and/or immoral. Literally 100% of the social/cultural/political positions that take are predicated on this assumption – just consider the classic liberal positions on gun control and affirmative action, just to cite two easy examples.
A very dark and honest analysis. Just a few words to cheer us all up.
THE PROPAGANDA WORKS AS LONG AS THE GIANT SLEEPS. The good thing about the lefty propaganda is that it’s unavoidable: we all are exposed to it from our childhood. And when we meet the reality of life, the majority of us recover and turn to the other side (otherwise how can we explain ANY Republican President after FDR?). And THOSE WHO RECOVER ARE IMMUNE to the further influence.
Thus what once was planned as a DISEASE, turns to a VACCINE. And the lefty takeover of our “thought-market” makes this vaccine UNAVOIDABLE. As long as the giant was sleeping, it was possible to whisper into his ear: “Democrats are for the pooooooooooor. Republicans are for the riiiiiiiich. Vote Democrat and sleeeeeeeep”. But now, when Dems’ actions inevitably wake up the giant, he sees the reality of life and … surprise! … TURNS CONSERVATIVE (the latest Gallup on it was all sweetness and light).
That’s the essence of the recent FAILURE of OBAMA’S WAR ON FOX NEWS. All his bacteria turn to be the vaccine. We’ve heard all his “arguments” from our cradle. Now we see that the reality is … well … not exactly like the MSM, teachers and professors told us. WERE WE LIED TO???? We sure were. And if so, were we lied about “the other side” too? Oooooooops. And here we go. The more Obama trashes Fox, the higher its ratings are.
And this process cannot be stopped, because WE ARE ALL VACCINATED, the Left has NOTHING NEW to convince us. And the Obama-reality makes us wake up. It’s inevitable, irreversible and schadenfreudelicious.
Only now people notice this? The administration has been using straw men and ad hominum attacks in speeches since the campaign. Every time Obama says “You may hear…” or “People are saying…” he’s setting up a straw man.
Why? Because it works. You get to craft your opponent’s words so that anything you say looks rational and sane in comparison.
The more “lefties” I talk to, I realize they can’t be reasoned with. Most of the time their arguments are purely emotional. Most of the time I agree with the intention of the argument. My problems is that I want to be free and not be subject to their form of governance. But where do I go to get away from the socialize medicine, political correctness, fascism,,, etc? I propose states that want to be free, need to band together and form a “free state” union. The founding fathers never intended the Federal Government to be so big and oppressive. The states need to stop this slide.
Reality is optional to koolaiders.
Conservatives have ideas? I thought nowadays they only have talking points” they pull out of their butts.
Thank you for expressing so eloquently the frustration that I feel! I was fairly liberal throughout university and I live in a liberal city .. as a result most of my friends and coworkers are leftists. Sometimes I attempt to debate them but it is so fruitless because they never seem to want to use logic. They despise our current Canadian government simply by virture of the fact that they are “right wing”. One friend even uses the word ‘evil’ to describe them. If you press them on what is so bad about the right the answers are emotional and rhetorical such as “they don’t like poor people/gays/women/minorities” … “they’re Christian fundamentalist nutjubs” … “they’re greedy and just care about profits”. None of those answers are based on truth or logic ….. it’s frustrating to say the least!
Two constants among leftists is the absence of logic and rejection of reality, qualities inherent in children, but unsuitable and dangerous for adults. They are emotionally stunted and live inside a carefully contructed world of feelings, not facts. To them, the counter-argument of “You’re just a big old poopyhead!” is every bit as effective as your argument, even moreso when there are numbers involved.
I grew up believing the same things Chapin did, based as well upon the assertions of trusted adults: Democrats = good; Republicans = bad. And so, although I have always been independent, I leaned for many years to the left of the political center.
But as I matured, I also put aside childish things — such as taking the pronouncements of others at face value. I began to investigate for myself. And what I found is that, generally speaking, liberals say many pleasing, altruistic things. But that, for far too many of them, their “walk” does not match their “talk.”
It became my experience that a great many more conservatives actually lived the lives they espoused — and that, contrary to popular perception — they were quite caring and concerned with the plight of the downtrodden.
Moreover, their policy preferences seemed far more likely to actually lift folks up from misery (rather than simply addict them to the governmental largess that too often keeps them down).
In the misguided view of many, however (propagated by too many media outlets), Democrats represent “hope.” It is such a misconception that Obama rode into office. We’re all paying for it now.
See: Obama, Where Art Thou http://emmeffemm.com/id179.html
welcome to 1901
this administration wants to turn the clock back to Lenin’s Russia
straw men and bulls*** sums up the imagination of the clowns in the obama circus.
Any option that lessens (democrat) control over the general population is verboten…In the final analysis, striking a sanctimonious pose is cherished more than truth by the left.
I guess all these wonderful self-righteous sorts of babbling idiots are the product of a progressively diminished public education over 40 years or so.
People spewing & sputtering like Wolffe (I’ve never seen him), Olbermann, Garofalo, even Bill Maher used to be laughed out of the public consciousness.
Now they seem to think they’ve got something worthwhile to say, and other people appear to listen to them and even think their points about the human condition are relevant on some planet.
Maybe Mars.
#3, Long before this time, bianche. If you have ever posted on a newspaper’s on-line forum, then you have been dealing with these obstructionist tactics for some time. It is best not to allow yourself to take the bait and instead begin demanding proof of the accusation. Many times they will not return to offer rebuttal. It’s a tell.
The left’s talking points haven’t varied that much over the years. That is why you see them appear here and elsewhere again and again. The stale tired stereotype of the conservative hasn’t been challenged effectively and the conventional wisdom has not even been successfully challenged on Foxnews a great deal of the time.
This article goes hand in hand with Ron Radosh’s article above it. You have to pin these accusers down and make them produce the facts that back up all the emotional unsubstantiated slurs and allegations. It isn’t good enough to just draw attention to what Garafolo(or however you spell it), for example, says-it has to be dismantled and never allowed to stand.
4. rrbs:
take a look at the video in the first link …the whole interview is also availble on you tube. it goes a long way to explain the indoctrination that has been going on in the west for decades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzdYLyhwGLc
the next link explains the other problem (not the troll infestation problem).
http://www.faithfreedom.org/obama.html
this last link is just pure fun.
http://www.pbase.com/opinion/maniacal
Fortunately, for anyone doubting the veracity of this article, the leftist trolls (thanks BC), who surely consider themselves paragons of their faith, will now proceed to give concrete examples of each of the points made by the author. Hilarious!
If you have ever posted on a newspaper’s on-line forum, then you have been dealing with these obstructionist tactics for some time.
Hey Elliot, might you be the Elliot from the old (original) nytimes forums ? And, later, the Guardian ?
If so, very nice to see you again !
They are clueless so many ways to sunday, I am aware now that I may never figure it out… they seem to not be able to think ideas all the way through or something… that is, without a detour from reality.
I found my head shaking at this title today, “Are the Tea Partiers Good or Bad for the GOP?”, not because they are so clearly the fabric of the country, past and future (for all I know, the “uncivilized” August of `09 may have saved us from a future demise), but because if I was a democrat this would be the least of my concerns given that they are about to prove their inability to govern to the world.
Someday, some liberal will write “maybe those passionate, out-spoken conservatives weren’t totally wrong”, but it will be an anomaly, and it will be rejected.
Hitler. Stalin. Lenin. Strawmen of the right. You should really try focusing on the positive. Living in fear and anger and resentment is unhealthy.
No free lunch, yes, it is I and have enjoyed your posts the last week. The GUT is a predictable bore. Love this site because I’m not subscribing to so many magazines these days and love time spent reading most of the morning here, Powerline, and a few other sites.
This a first-rate article-wise
the problem for the republicans is that their ideology and practices have failed and are the polar opposite of what reality dictates at the moment. the only thing the republicans offer is complete opposition to all democrat and obama policies, which is a tragic position, that has no resonance with a public calling for results more liberal than the president has undertaken. If the GOP “cares” then they should do things to help people instead of trying to obstruct the peoples right to health care!
#19. Golly, Arthur, what are you smoking?
The Democratic Party, since before the time of FDR but most certainly since, has sought to impose a “tyranny of the majority” on the American people. C.F.: Obama saying to the Republicans, “Let’s not hear anymore talk out of you all. I won and you can shut up’” or words to that effect. They want to substitute their “elite” ideas for the peoples’ common sense. Arthur above is a perfect example. “The peoples right to health care” shall not be obstructed. Please, Arthur, show me in the Constitution where it says anyone has “right” to health care? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, yes, but health care, no. The Constitution provides for equal opportunity but not equal outcome. Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Obama seem to want to redistribute the wealth of this nation. That is the political/economic philosophy of Marxism. And Obama want to redistribute it not only within this country, but to millions outside of it. The result will be the economic destruction of America. Within 18 months or so you will be a leap in the inflation rate which will have been caused by the profligate spending which has occurred over the past nine months. Add ration and tax energy policies and what ever other regulations the Democrats in Congress can come up with and you will soon have no growth stagflation that makes the Carter era pale by comparison.
One other things for the leftists out there to remember: you can only give the kids ice cream as long as the cow gives milk.
Spinoneone@22:
“One other things for the leftists out there to remember: you can only give the kids ice cream as long as the cow gives milk.”
I really, really, really wish that you and all your John Galt-worshiping friends would just opt out of the US economy and move to a gulch in Colorado instead.
That would really teach us leftist moochers and looters a valuable lesson.
Please, just do it.
Do it for the ice-creaming kids of the US!
David K. you’re going to be soorrrrrry.
“black, emotional art…”
I recently participated in an online poll put out by pollingpoint.com. The way the questions were constructed, I came away feeling like the meanest, nastiest witch on the planet for not wanting to pay for all pregnant women, minorities who have been cheated for centuries, and fluffy puppies to have free health care. Yeah, the questions were THAT leading. I considered changing my answers to sound more compassionate… I mean, who wants to be a mean baby killer? It’s hard to resist those urges when you live in the liberal Bay Area and work at PC University, but this is what the socialization, intense peer pressure, and the constant barrage with Straw Men will do to you. Fortunately I’ve been reading Ayn Rand’s The Fountainhead and the thought popped into my head “how would Ayn answer?” No free health care for the fluffy puppies.
20. Paul -Indiana asked:
#19. Golly, Arthur, what are you smoking?
Peter writes: Last week Arthur tried to express the view that he considers the Dinosau Media to be hopelessly slanted towards conservatives.
Just goes to show Arthur is on something, and it’s likely an hallucinogen.
a great article, and I want to thank Dave K and Now & Then for proving this point.
Has anyone seen “Fall of the Republic” ? Do yourself a BIG favor and check it out. (In my most respectful,humble opinion)
….and fight them I shall…..
Great column.
myth buster@24:
“David K. you’re going to be soorrrrrry.”
It’ll be hard with nobody asking me whether I want “paper or plastic” at the local grocery store, but I’ll just have to soldier on.
We fool ourselves every time we think that leftist double standards are simply some momentary aberration, that they will somehow come to their senses if subjected to reasoned discourse.
The only way to defeat an ideology is to understand it. However, naivete keeps us from understanding that double standards and lies are the quintessential heart of leftist philosophy.
It amounts to a leftist secular religion that is based on equality of results. Equality of results can only be pursued by treating people, cultures, religions and societies unequally. The left must drag down anything deemed “unfairly” successful, and elevate that which it views as “oppressed”. This is the basis of the left’s double standards, aided and abetted by lies, subterfuge and semantic games. It will never change because it cannot change.
Conservatives must stop deceiving themselves… the left will never agree with you about what is good and evil, right and wrong, objective reality, and all the rest. Attempts at reasoned discourse are futile, because the underlying philosophical assumptions are too skewed, too divergent.
Conservatives must therefore stop playing ad hoc defense on every point-counterpoint proffered by the left. Instead, call them out on their most basic revolting religious underpinnings, and dare them to deny it.
David K. and The Trolls. The gift that keeps on giving. Are they really too stupid to know they’re proving the writer’s position with every word?
Thomas_L…..@32:
“David K. and The Trolls. The gift that keeps on giving. Are they really too stupid to know they’re proving the writer’s position with every word?”
David K. and the Trolls is actually the name of my Blue Oyster Cult cover band.
32. Thomas_L…..:
“David K. and The TrollThat sounds like some kind of late 60′s band.
The difference between Leftism and Conservatism is that Leftist are taught to think the way they do and conservatives come to think the way they do for themselves. It’s hard to blame someone for their warped ideologies when they’ve been indoctrinated by Leftists in the school system since they were small tots.
Many Leftists do eventually grow up and become Conservatives or Moderates as is the case with many of the bloggers on PJM.
One can only hope!
“black, emotional art…”
OMG!! Teh autor is a RACIST!!!
(that’s sarcasm y’all)
#31 has it right, however as with most religious fanatics you cannot reason with them and I fear even exposing “their most basic revolting religious underpinnings” will do no good in regards to the Leftists. Sure it might sway some independents, but the dyed in the wool Leftist cultist isn’t going to change. These people worship mass murders like Che and Mao.
Republicans would like to see governmental obstacles — excessive taxation, mindless regulations, and an anti-business climate — removed, which would allow the wonder of economic growth to finally win the war on poverty.
Good luck paying for all the wars with that strategy. Or do conservatives also believe in layaway for whenever its inconvenient to tell the public the true cost of their policies.
As for Steele, and your, weak “who me, do something for political gain bs”…for as long as there’s been a GOP chairman–153 years–there has never been African American one. If you want Republicans to believe that the first African American chairman just coincidentally was chosen the same year the Democrats got an African American into office, you deserve the kind of idiots who’ll be attracted to your party. And, buddy, you got em.
Again, none of you are conservatives. Jokes, all of you.
Like the author, my father beleived the republicans were”all for the rich”. After seeing the likes of Billionaires SOROS,BING,SADLER SPEILBERG, GEFFEN,ETCgiving away hundreds of millions to the ONESCUM and PIGLSOI, Ive now reached the conclusion dad was dead wrong about politicians. I cant find many good ones, but the only decent ones Ive met are Republicans(Bachmann, Cantor,Demint, Colburn,Goemert and several others). There are more dims today who love CHE GUEVARRA OR CHAIRMAN MAO than America. One third of your dimwits belong to the so-called “progressive caucus” , which is just another name for communist. The rest of them are plain STUPID(Alan Grayson , anyone?). Or this idiot posting in front of me calling itself “anonymous”(more like coward and sissy). You wouldnt know a brain if it was surgically implanted in you.
Hitler.Lenin. Stalin. Strawman of the “right”. Nah, not really “NOW AND THEN”. More like the kind of examples you and your sick ilk greatly admire. You need mental help “now and then”, even beyond what trolling on the web can do for you. Your sickness cannot be explained by intelligent rationale, for you have no intelligence. You are merely a manipulated sock puppet of the new Hitler,Lenin,Stalin,Mao of the 21st century, George Soros.
38. Knotacommie: . . . There you go. I rest my case.
To 23. Dave K.
It used to be in the US one in fact could do that… until leftwingers got control of the government and now require all states to be the same… funny how that is. The main reason for this is ppl fled from left wing states and moved to right wing states amass… and then the leftwing states ran out of money and crashed. So leftwingers decided instead of taking over a single/couple states they need to control everything… and thus where we are today…
You see the 10th Amendment was basically written to give ppl the choice to move to a “better” government. If a state wanted to go near full commie they could.(some tried) A prefect case being healthcare… how many states have tried and failed to create a state wide “national” healthcare system… ALOT think its close to 30 over the last 50 years. Some states are trying that idea now(Mass just one of the states). THEY ARE FAILING AND HAVE ALWAYS FAILED.
The thing I find really laughable is the US stands own as being “rightwing” even thought we’ve basically removed the constitution and have moved to a center leftwing country state… but when the constitution was signed the US was rightwing/far rightwing.
The simple fact is ppl like you(dave K) can move to any of over 100 countries across the world to find some version of leftism you agree with… why do you have to stay in the US and ruin the one rightwing country in the whole world for everyone else…WHY?
You have leftwing paradises all across the world from russia to the euros to china to NK to etc, etc, etc… All leftwing all what you want, you should go there instead of trying to change the 1 country in the whole world that isn’t leftwing.
Hello Eliot and Virginia, its beeautiful here in Laguna Woods today. Why don’t you stop over for a BBQ and a martini. Stepperg has a full jayr of olives so we’re ready. K?
Hello Elliot and Tantastaff, its beeautiful here in Laguna Woods today. Why don’t you stop over for a BBQ and a martini. Stepperg has a full jay of olives so we’re ready. K?
The thing I find really laughable is the US stands own as being “rightwing” even thought we’ve basically removed the constitution and have moved to a center leftwing country state
I’m trying to figure out what that “thing” you find laughable actually is. Can you write it again in English? You see in the left-wing state I live in, we are required to learn English in school. You probably come from one of those right-wing states where English is optional.
robotech master,
why are you here in the US, hating on our President and Commander in Chief during a time of war when you can move to Somalia instead?
Low taxes, no oppressive leftist government institutions, and very permissive gun laws.
Truly, for an enterprising Hank Rearden-like fellow such as yourself, it would be paradise.
The reason these arguments are so effective is because republicrats rarely, if ever, get up and speak the plain truth that freedom from government helps the individual. Instead of sounding like they are standing up for freedom they always sound like they are against the demopublicans.
As a result, they always sound like a bunch of whiners. Reagan knew how to stand for something and not just against something.
Until republicrats learn how to talk in the language of freedom and empowerment instead of always just reacting to encroaching demopublican statism, then they will continue to look like the whining crybaby ineffective schlubs that they are.
36. Anonymous wrote:
Good luck paying for all the wars with that strategy. Or do conservatives also believe in layaway for whenever its inconvenient to tell the public the true cost of their policies.
Peter writes: Gee, funny how Reagan was able to lower taxes, increase government revenue, and outspend the Soviet Union to the point where communism in East Europe totally collapsed under the weight of their debt, huh?
freedom from government helps the individual.
It certainly helped women and black people for nearly a 150 years.
Gee, funny how Reagan was able to lower taxes, increase government revenue, and outspend the Soviet Union to the point where communism in East Europe totally collapsed under the weight of their debt, huh?
Hmmm…I seem to recall someone else’s dad being a one termer because of the massive damage to the economy caused by his forerunner. Maybe the accident where you acquired brain damage happened after Reagan’s term and that’s all you can remember.
Moho:
How long have women of Muslim faith based regions been on equal footing of their male counterparts? I assume it’s longer than North America/ U.S. considering the ME region has been around for far longer. Right? Uh, no.
How many black people hold any type of higher office in the ME? Again, there must be many, right? Huh-uh.
There’s EEO, AA in every facet of work and colleges.
Lower SAT and ACT scores for minorities.
BET, Jet magazine and dozens of others.
Black only colleges.
Sharpton and JJ are given the title ‘Reverend’ even when they’re anything but..
The result? Unfortunately Latinos have the lowest H.S. and 4 year college graduation rate. California alone will be giving nearly $2 billion in welfare and other aid collectively to illegal aliens this year.
Out-of-wedlock children are grotesquely high amongst Black and Latino people.
The incident in Richmond, CA and thousands of cities like it are filled with gangs, drug users and do-nothing City Council members.
Speaking of the City Council, check out the D.C. CC attempting to placate blame to D.C. Schools Chancellor Michelle Rhee (whoa.. can that be another woman holding a high position?). She’s one of the few reasons D.C. schools are improving.
I’m thinking an ‘equal footing’ or removing such reparation-like programs would be ‘racist’.
paul_unalaska@49:
“Out-of-wedlock children are grotesquely high amongst Black and Latino people.”
Except in Alaska, of course.
Richard@45:
“The reason these arguments are so effective is because republicrats rarely, if ever, get up and speak the plain truth that freedom from government helps the individual.”
Yup, couldn’t agree more.
That’s why Somalia is the most prosperous country in the whole world.
No evil government equals infinity% freedom!!!
Paul Unalaska. The main reason I come to this site is because I love to watch dumb hillbillies pwn themselves by explaining, in semi-literate prose, their assertions that non-white people are academically, professionally and intellectually inferior. The only reason you probably have a job, you toothless hick, is because of the institutionalized affirmative action that white males created over the last 200 years. It certainly can’t be your intelligence or skill set as is visible from the excerpt below, reproduced ywithout comment to show people just how ill-equipped for nearly any task you are.
Moho:
How long have women of Muslim faith based regions been on equal footing of their male counterparts? I assume it’s longer than North America/ U.S. considering the ME region has been around for far longer. Right? Uh, no.
How many black people hold any type of higher office in the ME? Again, there must be many, right? Huh-uh.
There’s EEO, AA in every facet of work and colleges.
Out-of-wedlock children are grotesquely high amongst Black and Latino people. [sorry, I know I said without comment, but wtf...hilarious]
The incident in Richmond, CA and thousands of cities like it are filled with gangs, drug users and do-nothing City Council members. [okay, again I said without comment, but is it the "incident" or the "cities" that are filled with your boogey-men?]
Speaking of the City Council, check out the D.C. CC attempting to placate blame to D.C. Schools Chancellor Michelle Rhee (whoa.. can that be another woman holding a high position?). She’s one of the few reasons D.C. schools are improving.[okay, sorry, one last thing. You don't placate blame. You placate people.]
I’m thinking an ‘equal footing’ or removing such reparation-like programs would be ‘racist’.[this last statement is just hilarious given the fact that you seem unable to communicate in English].
To 44. Dave K.
You really don’t know much about Somalia its a pretty standard leftwing state.
To 43. Moho
When you can’t attack the facts attack the typos… hows that strawman working out for you…?
David Special K.,
Freedom from government doesn’t mean not having ANY government and you damned well know that’s what Richard meant, tardo.
The more that government INTRUDES on our lives the more freedom and liberty we all lose.
Yes, Special DK, we know that you want more government in your every waking hour.
Liberals. Can’t live with ‘em. Can’t live with ‘em.
Pfft!
Sorry, I wish I could even contemplate a straw man argument, but I simply can’t understand this sentence. These aren’t typos:
The thing I find really laughable is the US stands own as being “rightwing”
I can’t for the life of me figure out where a logical typo would be here. Are you saying, “stands on its own”, “stands alone”…even so, the sentence would make no sense. Then this follows:
even thought we’ve basically removed the constitution and have moved to a center leftwing country state
Given that “thought” is most likely a typo of “though” the rest of the sentence doesn’t make any sense either. Don’t complain to me that you can’t express whatever opinion it is that you hold on whatever issue it is that you’re trying to get across here. This isn’t affirmative action, kid. Take some basic English and logic classes and get back to me when you can not only formulate an idea but express it in a way that makes sense to adults.
even thought we’ve basically removed the constitution and have moved to a center leftwing country state
robotech master@53:
“You really don’t know much about Somalia its a pretty standard leftwing state.”
Somalia doesn’t have a state.
It’s a “hyena eat hyena” country.
You know, the kind you want to implement here in the US.
It’s funny that the Republicans/regressives “accuse” us progressives/liberals of wanting to turn the US into Western Europe, when Republicans/regressives want to turn the US into East Africa.
Somalia doesn’t have a state.
It’s a “hyena eat hyena” country.
You’re mistaking conservatism/libertarianism for anarchism.
The “ideal” state free-market country, from an economic perspective, is Hong Kong.
The “Somalia” charge is another straw man of the Left and has nothing to do with the idea of the rule of law, which underpins conservatism and libertarianism, although they do differ at points on what the contents of those laws should be.
30
It’ll be hard with nobody asking me whether I want “paper or plastic” at the local grocery store, but I’ll just have to soldier on.
Yes, I’m sure all of the people who voted for Obama, but make less than $30K are a bunch of unappreciated geniuses and not the people who actually hold those “paper or plastic” jobs (hey, what’s that Bernie said about the Left claiming to be for “the little guy” again?)
Is there ONE opinion you have that’s backed up by reality or are they all just as ungrounded as your “Somalia” and “paper or plastic” fantasies?
Link to go with last post about those making under $30K and their voting patterns:
http://www.historycentral.com/elections/12008/exit/Income.html
moho, my point is to bring to light your INCREDIBLE ignorance in your idiotic banter.
In 230 years, this country has accomplished far more in regards to humanity, equality, peace than any nation, empire has bestowed. And that upsets you?
Even with the aforementioned programs in place (which are in all respect – counterproductive), the minority population is failing. Miserably.
Africa, boasting of possessing the oldest civilizations of our planet, receive non-stop assistance in every facet of their lives, has the WORST political, educational, lifestyle, family dynamic, etc., conditions of any place on the planet.
The AA program Obama took advantage of to get into Law School is rearing its ugly head on a massive scale presently.
I’m a hick, redneck, etc etc., Hmmm. I’m a 2nd generation American brought up in the burbs of Colorado. Though your attempts at insults are better suited otherwise.
Myself and many people here weren’t ‘afforded’ nor needed the reparation programs and are succeeding. On our own. That’s got to burn you up something fierce..
Here you are. An adult, a parent who didn’t seek higher learning/ climbing the corporate ladder so to speak and as a result will always work FOR someone whom you think is less intelligent, less deserving than you. Yet, you cast your shortcomings as their doing.
Those ‘step up’ programs are only in place to ALWAYS have a lower class. As well as blaming others YOU deem appropriate.
When in reality its the liberal folks who keep this metastisized program afloat.. like a choke chain.
You seem to have a limited and sad existence..
venividivici@57:
“The “ideal” state free-market country, from an economic perspective, is Hong Kong.”
You mean a pretend “democracy/free market” Potemkin village that’s completely owned and run by Communist China?
Yeah, forgive me for not wanting to move to that paradise.
But feel free to move there yourself, gwailo.
I’m sure your masters in the People’s Liberation Army will give you a nice, cushy job in the counterfeit pharmaceuticals factory.
venividivici@57:
“The “Somalia” charge is another straw man of the Left and has nothing to do with the idea of the rule of law, which underpins conservatism and libertarianism, although they do differ at points on what the contents of those laws should be.”
PRO TIP:
When you can buy the rule and the law, then the rule of law doesn’t have any meaning.
And “conservatism/libertarianism” is nothing but hyenas using the “rule of law” to decide how to eat the zebras.
And you’re a zebra defending the hyenas, venividivici.
You mean a pretend “democracy/free market” Potemkin village that’s completely owned and run by Communist China?
No place is perfect, but they’ve consistently ranked at the top of the Heritage Foundations “economic freedom” rankings. Since “economic freedom” is of primary concern to me and most libertarians, the model is useful to consider for policies in other countries, including the US.
PRO TIP:
When you can buy the rule and the law, then the rule of law doesn’t have any meaning.
What exactly are you “pro” at?
Anyway, you’re point, while potentially relevant in the abstract, has nothing to do with my point about the rule of law and its relationship to certain political viewpoints. In fact, your “tip” should be filed under the “No Sh*t, Sherlock” tab in anyone’s political filing cabinet.
And “conservatism/libertarianism” is nothing but hyenas using the “rule of law” to decide how to eat the zebras.
And you’re a zebra defending the hyenas, venividivici.
Colorful imagery, again, though, apropos of nothing I said.
Since “economic freedom” is of primary concern to me and most libertarians, the model is useful to consider for policies in other countries, including the US.
This is especially true since “political freedom” among Western Leftists has come to be defined as the freedom to appropriate the fruits of others’ labor in support of current consumption. And, yes, too many politicians on the Right pander to this sort of behavior as well.
venividivici@63:
“No place is perfect, but they’ve consistently ranked at the top of the Heritage Foundations “economic freedom” rankings. Since “economic freedom” is of primary concern to me and most libertarians, the model is useful to consider for policies in other countries, including the US.”
The fact that you are defending the People’s Republic of China, the world’s worst and largest COMMUNIST dictatorship with a 3 million man army and nuclear missiles aimed at the United States as well as elevating this nightmarish slave labor camp of a country to a paragon of virtue means that you’re truly a traitor as well as an idiot and there’s really no hope for you.
But don’t worry, you still make me laugh.
The fact that you are defending the People’s Republic of China, the world’s worst and largest COMMUNIST dictatorship with a 3 million man army and nuclear missiles aimed at the United States as well as elevating this nightmarish slave labor camp of a country to a paragon of virtue means that you’re truly a traitor as well as an idiot and there’s really no hope for you.
Hong Kong and mainland China are two different entities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_sovereignty_of_Hong_Kong#Before_and_after_reunification
See point 6 under “unchanged”, specifically.
But don’t worry, you still make me laugh.
I wasn’t, nor will I, worry about anything related to you, your laughter, your tears or your continued existence.
venividivici@66:
“Hong Kong and mainland China are two different entities:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_sovereignty_of_Hong_Kong#Before_and_after_reunification
See point 6 under “unchanged”, specifically.”
Well, that settles it!
When I think of an entity I can trust to uphold and maintain a legal agreement, the first one, after the former Soviet Union, is the People’s Republic of China.
After all, if one cannot trust a single-party, communist, power-hungry, brutal, amoral, murderous, and despicable dictatorship, then what can one trust?
In fact, just the other day, I left my wallet at a gas station and the Communist Party of China found it and returned it to me the next day and didn’t even want a reward for the effort!
That’s how honest and trustworthy the Communist Party of China is!
Venividivici:
shine on, you crazy diamond!
Veni. You make me laugh as well. Its your role in life, learn to live with it.
Thomas_L….. @ 32:
Yes.
And the troll-fu is strong tonight at this thread. Just goes to prove that Bernard may have hit a nerve.
#19 Arthur -
“the problem for the republicans is that their ideology and practices have failed” – Strawman argument. Exactly which part of the ideology has failed when actually implemented?
- “and are the polar opposite of what reality dictates at the moment.” – Strawman. Again, which Republican policies are opposite of realities? Reducing taxes to encourage small business to create jobs, since they’re the ones which do so? Opposing raising taxes in a recession? Proposing buying insurance across State lines as opposed to the State diktats we now have? Demanding tort reform?
- “the only thing the republicans offer is complete opposition to all democrat and obama policies, which is a tragic position, that has no resonance with a public calling for results more liberal than the president has undertaken.” – Strawman. The public is not calling for more. All polls say exactly otherwise; about 57-43 against ObamaCare. Concern about jobs and deficits are at the top of people’s lists right now.
- “If the GOP “cares” then they should do things to help people instead of trying to obstruct the peoples right to health care!” – Strawman. The People’s right to healthcare? Sez who? There exists no such “right”. Entitlement thinking. The world does not owe you something just because you’re here.
Everything you stated was a series of Strawmen. Perhaps you should look up the term in a dictionary. One paragraph from you absolutely proved the author’s point. Nice work.
Marc Malone, brilliant response to the precious examples of the Strawman by peabrained poster, Arthur and his troll-buds…or the Troll-Fu’sters. Too funny & all in real time!
Marc Malone#70:
“The People’s right to healthcare? Sez who? There exists no such “right”. Entitlement thinking. The world does not owe you something just because you’re here.”
So what are people entitled to then?
I have many rights.
I have the same right to go into bankruptcy because of medical bills as Rupert Murdoch and I have the same right to starve to death on a park bench as Rush Limbaugh.
Those aren’t rights that I really think are worth anything, though.
Westwright. Its obvious that Marc Malone doesn’t understand what Strawman is.
For example, Marc claims that this is Strawman:
“the problem for the republicans is that their ideology and practices have failed” – Strawman argument.
That’s not strawman at all. That’s an accusation, which the poster must now back up, but its not on the face of it an accusation without merit.
Again, another “characterization”, not Strawman:
“and are the polar opposite of what reality dictates at the moment.”
Not strawman at all.
This is the definition of Strawman:
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person’s actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of “reasoning” has the following pattern:
1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
Now, the problem that arises is that the Republican party has such a broad, asinine and crazed platform that it would actually be difficult to fall into a strawman argument describing it, even if you were trying. For example, I could say that the Republican party’s main positions are based on the birth of the President, misinterpretation of the word “socialist” and a need to vilify in Democrats exactly what they support in Republicans. And for each of these accusations, I could fill the comment slots with so many examples, that it would make you cry. Because most of your opinions sprout from a profound insecurity about your masculinity and a frustration at your own talents or lack thereof. That last one is in fact a strawman argument, arguably. Emphasis on arguably.
#73 Moho – Your definition is correct of the strawman argument, but arthur’s accusations were based on a distorted view of Conservative principles. I got the sense he was conflating Republican with Conservative. The Conservatives have been out of power since Gingrich resigned as Speaker.
This is a common misunderstanding (one which you shared), so I challenged him as to exactly which principles have failed. I asked for specifics; a reasonable request.
As for the Republican platform, just go to the RNC website. That is what it’s supposed to be, last I looked. It was written by the base (Conservatives). Just because some people are all over the place, doesn’t mean that it isn’t defined specifically. And yes, you fell into a Strawman argument misrepresenting what exactly are Conservative principles.
The last was not a Strawman argument. It was a pointless Ad Hominem.