The Skunk at Your Door: The Sadistic Narcissist with the Very Large Suitcase
Dear Belladonna Rogers,
Millions of people believe they have strong contenders for the dubious distinction, but I believe that I have the most intolerant, cruel, condescending, nasty, insulting mother-in-law (MIL) in history.
Luckily for me and my three sisters-in-law, our MIL and late father-in-law had four sons and she visits a different one each Thanksgiving.
The ordeal we each experience occurs, like presidential elections, once every four years.
This is my year. Two days from today, she’ll pull up to our modest, clean, well-organized, happy home in the limousine she hires to bring her from the airport (she refuses to have us meet her, preferring to arrive in a chauffeured sedan) and start right in.
Although my husband and I will have spent Wednesday night cleaning our toilets and bathroom sinks with all the strength we can muster, she’ll complain about some invisible-to-other-human eyes bit of something that only she can see. This will continue throughout our house. Wherever she sets foot, she’ll find fault. Or dust.
Four years ago, I organized our books by color and thought they looked gorgeous. She walked in, took one look, and announced, “Only an illiterate would organize books by color.” I later learned that President Dwight D. Eisenhower, one of her idols, organized his library exactly that way.
She’s the pundit of the put-down. I’m always blindsided by her verbal assaults. They seem to come out of nowhere. My husband tries to stay away from her as much as possible, and I don’t blame him. He’s had to put up with her for 54 years. Our children are polite to her but harbor no affection for her.
I know I’ll survive this four-day siege; I’ve done it before. Now that I’m in my 50s, though, I find myself less intimidated than mystified. Any advice or insight you can provide would be helpful not only to me, but also my three younger sisters-in-law.
Bewildered in Baton Rouge
Dear Bewildered,
What you’re dealing with is an unappetizing combo platter of narcissism and sadism, with a side of condescension. She and others like her are beyond disagreeable. They’re unconscionable. Here are a dozen ground rules that may help:
1) Prepare to be blindsided. She’ll blindside you this year because she always has and always will. If you remind yourself that these brutal comments will come at you when you least expect them (such as when you were so understandably delighted with your color-coordinated library that you never imagined she’d go after you for that), you can at least tell yourself afterward, “I could see that one coming.”
Such people have a bat-like radar that can detect when the other person is expecting empathy or appreciation: that’s when they strike. To you it comes out of the blue, but to the narcissist it’s the perfect moment to pounce and inflict maximum distress.
2) Although it may be comforting to imagine scenarios in which you tell her something so persuasive, so wise, and so overwhelmingly right that she’ll change her ways, there will never be a conversation with her that will produce an outcome satisfying to you.
People such as your MIL are inflexible, and don’t mellow with age. That’s because they’re not wines, they’re poisons — and therefore forever toxic.
3) Here’s the key to her behavior: It isn’t that she’s trying to be congenial and failing. That’s not her goal. It would be yours, but it isn’t hers. She wants others to feel inferior to her. That’s her aim. That’s why she comes to visit.
4) Despite enjoying inflicting humiliation on others, people as hurtful as your MIL feel mortification within themselves. Although they certainly don’t show it, they’re filled with shame. They project it outward and try to make others feel belittled, weak, and better still, too stunned to reply. They lack the basic emotional and psychological components necessary for kindness and empathy.
5) “If only she realized how cruel she is, wouldn’t she want to change?” one could ask. Answer: No. She enjoys it too much — that’s her ingrained sadism.
6) How to cope? Expect nothing kind, warm, humane, generous-spirited, appreciative, empathetic, or sympathetic.
I think Bewildered is extremely fortunate. She only gets this once every four years. Can you imagine living with this person? Or working for her?
Tell her to cut it out.
Then tell your husband that you expect better. You don’t have to cut him off at the knees, the MIL is already doing a fine job at that. Just explain to your husband that you understand that the dynamics were in place before you two ever met and that you’ve seen the light. Now HE can see the light. If he loves you, he’ll really love you for this. If he’s too weak to love you above all others, you’ll know it.
Don’t think you’re putting his gonads in a vice, they’ve been in a vice for 54 years. Show him respect. Show him what a woman who values herself is about. Show him that you’re worth fighting for. Provide the opportunity and, odds are, he’ll leap at the chance.
Belladonna,
Thanks for providing a way of understanding and coping with such an animal. I feel awful for this daughter in law who is about to endure the whirl wind. It makes you wonder how her husband came out ok.
Even if she is a skunk, these people will still have to deal with the spraying poison. Why not go in the opposite direction? No sheets on the bed, no books on the shelves, no toilet paper on the roll, Carnation Instant Breakfast on the breakfast table.
I know, I know, stop the fantasizing and deal with reality. Good luck to this poor DIL. Maybe Her Majesty will be gathered to her ancestors before the next turn arrives.
Only the good die young. Trust me, the “skunk” will live a long and miserable life. The only escape from these people is to move and leave no forwarding address. It is why they normally end up only able to torment their direct relatives. Everyone else moves away. Unfortunately, I have too many of these people in my family. I haven’t figured out yet if it is partially genetic or if we cluster together because of some inner need. I am hoping I can blame it on the genes.
You don’t want it to be genetic or else it could pass on to your kids!
I have to agree with Nickel. She’ll make it a POINT to live longer than everyone else. Since Belladonna has interjected a literary reference (a good one, too), I’ll add one of my own. The mother-in-law reminds me of the Underground Man from Dostoevsky’s “Notes from the Underground,” who, at the old age of 40 (which was probably the 80 of Dostoevsky’s time), tells the reader:
“To live longer than forty years is bad manners, is vulgar, immoral…. I have a right to say so, for I shall go on living to sixty myself. To seventy! To eighty! … Stay, let me take breath …”
You’re exactly right, she’ll outlive everyone just for spite! We’re a rural family, & my grandpa used to say, about ANY animal that was cantankerous, ornery, and/or contrary as a hog on ice skates: “That varmint’s just too MEAN to die!”
I fail to understand why you would put up with this misbegotten stink pot in the first place. You husband must understand or he wouldn’t stay away from her like you describe. Unless you need her for something, maybe you like being put upon? Tell your husband that unless he does something such as forbid her from coming that you will simply take the kids and go stay in a hotel for the duration of her visit. And for heaven’s sake don’t go to any special effort to clean up for her prior to her visit, it’s obvious she doesn’t appreciate it. If you must stay home buy her a special set of the roughest, most uncomfortable sheets and blankets you can find, leave poop in her toilet etc. until she decides on her own to stay away. No more miss nice daughter in law. When she insults you, just say “Tough poopies bitch” or something like that, depending on if the kids are around as to how obscene you want to make it. Unless of course, she’s rich and you are after her money or something. It’s not worth it, is it?
No offense Chris, but that is exactly what these monsters thrive on. They live off of the adreneline of ticking off other people. That is exactly why they are constantly conniving to establish or maintain some control points that force you to remain attached to them. My older sister who just lost her “slave” husband, is actively searching for a new person drawn through their own pathology to “suffer” in the service of a clinical narcacist, and is in the process of writing her new will to include her two children who will receive her two houses on her death. Why is this strange you ask? Because the only reason my now aging sister is putting in her will as the two houses as going to her adult children, is so she can “threaten them” with losing the houses. Otherwise she knows no one would put up with her venom. Narcissim is it’s own form of living hell.
nickel is right. Doing the things that you suggest won’t prevent the skunk from spraying you. In fact, it will only increase the odds of your getting sprayed, but in different ways that DO matter to you: your husband, your kids, the will, the extended family, your appearance, your job. What are you insecure about? The trouble with these people is that they are GOOD at what they do. They have had 40+ years of honing their skills.
Sorry to be a party pooper, but I know from personal experience that efforts to encourage the skunk not to come will be unsuccessful. They will come because the experience for them is pleasurable. If this daughter in law was okay with her house being less than perfect, then the skunk would move on to find a better mark for her poison arrow.
The only way to deal with these people is to stay away. If that is not an option, then the best way is to make the environment as non-threatening as possible to decrease the number of sprays.
Pardon me if I disagree, but what you advocate is playing right into their hands. If someone shoots at me, I intend to shoot back with something bigger. Make them duck for cover. Make the Bi, er skunk, go running for her den. If you don’t it will just continue since you will be a known doormat.
Chris, no offense but in the knowledge of dealing with narcissistic personality disorder you are under-gunned. You can’t out box Mohammed Ali in his prime. These monsters spend every waking hour figuring out how to focus everything on them and thinking you can win a pissing contest with a monster is naive. Every professional book on how to deal with these people starts with the strong advice to move away from them at all costs. You can not win or even co-exist with someone who is so dispicably focused on themselves over even their own children.
Chris – the narcissist LIVES for you shooting back. Think of them as beligerent drunks. You aren’t going to make them see the light, no way, no how. Engaging them only increases the chance of ruining the event for everyone else. You already know they won’t sit quietly in the corner even though it is Thanksgiving or the kids wedding. The best you can hope for is minimal damage by keeping them from getting out of control.
nickel & Becky: Your posts drive home the notion that the best way to handle such people is not at all. The person this lady needs to deal with is not the MIL but her husband. She needs to help him see the proverbial light: The MIL’s company is not worth the hassle of putting up with her. If his sense of loyalty to her is so strong, then he should be willing to deal with her himself without involving the rest of his immediate family. He owes them that at the very least.
Bobbcat, you are correct, but you have to realize that the real victim, or the primary victim is the husband in Belladonna’s story. He is the one who was controlled from birth. The very fact that the mother in law only sees each son every four years indicates to me that all her children are well aware of what they are dealing with. A mother is hard to cut off entirely, even if they are a narcisst. It might have to be done eventually, but trust me when it is your blood and you carry her genes it can take a long time to both understand the extent of the damage and turn your back on your own flesh.
You’re on the wrong track, and Chris is on the right track. How can someone establish “control points” if you don’t let them.
I would never ever lose my cool with someone as manipulative as this m-i-law as described–simply send a letter, or make a phone call a month before you’re schedculed for the holiday weekend and say, “We’re going on a cruise.” Don’t even have to go.
On the other hand, IF when’s all said and done, cowed husband is cowed because he DOES want to remain in the will — well then, that’s another story. Admit to yourself you’re “paying up” in advance with that hellish weekend for anticipated money. Look at it as paying the price and stop complaining.
She might have the last word, go on being bitchy and not leave you a damned thing, but that’s the price you pay for putting money over integrity of insisting she treat your wife and children with respect.
Sometimes, the money in the estate just isn’t worth it. Let her know that you don’t care about what may or may not be in the will and live your own life.
It seems to me that the husband is failing in this situation. It’s his responsibility to handle problems with his mother. If that means telling her she’s no longer welcome in their home, so be it. He should tell her exactly why she’s no longer welcome and tell her that if she cleans up her act, she’ll be welcome then.
Well, guys, it isn’t that simple. What if this “monster” is your mother or only living relative? Or in my case is married to someone who is very important to you like your only living parent? The narcisist has had her entire life to dig her hooks in and while you might minimize her destructive power it is often impossible to escape it totally without moving and severing all ties. When I was younger and first married to my wonderful wife, I invited my father and his fourth wife, my only living relative to my home for Thanksgiving dinner with my young wife cooking and preparing the entire event. My father’s wife, his fourth, a paranoid narcissistic ex nurse from the nurse Ratchet school of personal interaction,out of the blue in the middle of the Thanksgiving dinner decided to accused my wife of sleeping with one of my friends. Talk about a skunk at a dinner party. Why you ask did she do this? Because she was so insanely jealous of my father having any ties to anyone, especially his only son,that she wanted to drive a wedge between my father and me. So she poisoned the water by a totally false charge against my 23 year old new wife. Now with that kind of monster to deal with it is hard to escape pain, unless as I ultimately had to do, you cut off all contact with the only parent I ever had, my father. Which of course was exactly what the narcissist wanted to happen in the first place? And yes, she did live to be almost ninety in spite of consuming a quart of Seagram Seven daily for forty + years and being an insulin dependent diabetic.
No offense aurora1920, but your ascertion of “I would never allow these people to get control” just proves you have been lucky enough not to have one of these monsters for your mother, or father, or sibling. It isn’t a matter of choice if you put up with them, it is a question of how soon you figure out what is going on and what close personal relationship or relationships, you have to sacrefice to cut them off. They as Becky has said are masters at this. There entire lives are focused on perfecting this, and if you are unlucky enough to be in their control from birth escape is not easy.
“…when it is your blood and you carry her genes it can take a long time to both understand the extent of the damage and turn your back on your own flesh.”
To a large degree, I agree. To my mind though, once you say those vows upon the altar in front of God & loved ones, your spouse becomes your first priority. In situations such as this one, the husband is obligated first to the interest of his wife, even if it has to come at the expense of his own flesh & blood.
oh, gosh. you know the story about how a howda trains an elephant? you get a young elephant, and stake his leg to the ground. When he’s grown, he won’t know the stake can’t hold him. He’s still stuck.
A good parent facilitates growth and freedom. There’s a nest to return to, but there’s confidence in the kid’s wings. The kid’s childhood is spent both enjoying the current time, and reminding them that they need to practice good judgment now, b/c they will be independent later.
A bad parent actively stifles this. A child raised this way, even after carefully freeing themselves, still has scars. They might be able to walk away, walk freely and peacefully- but there are still scars, and there is still residual fear of the howdah.
That’s where a spouse comes in. All reputable, repeatable research confirms that a good marriage facilitates growth. Part of that- the spouse protects his/her other spouse from all harms. Part of that “cleave to your spouse” bit is: it needs to be said, and made explicit, b/c it’s not intuitive. There are words for “mama’s boys” or “Dominated” or “immature.” This husband has chosen to live with his wife, and honor and love her. He’s supporting her- she’s proud of her house, and her family. She’s proud of him. She’s like a midwife, in some ways- his soul is kind of crowning, then retreating, crowning, retreating,crowning, and then landing in her hands. His soul is still maturing within the marriage. She needs to protect him, when he’s not able to be protected.
His mother probably fed him when he was an infant- he nursed, or had bottles. He probably was held by her, and rocked to sleep. Deep, deep in his mind his basic body/sense memories are being comforted and held by his mother. For a while in the seventies and eighties, it was popular amongst child psychs to force parents into cradling and rocking their children to reform this bond. His basic level is animal comfort with her (presumably). His spiritual, mental, intellectual, grown- up states don’t have a chance against threats to his basic, physical safety.
That’s really one reason sex is rolling around with your spouse- you’re bonding in a pretty low, basic level. It’s a nurturing, or at least it’s supposed to be.
Anyway, he needs his wife to do the blocking that he, quite physically, and mentally, cannot do. It’s not a matter of straightforward brusqueness. He needs his wife to block for him. We can assume he does the same for her- she feels cherished, rather than diminished in their family life.
I do it for my husband, when his mom gets hopped up. He does it for my dad. I do love his ability to be a total jerk. It means we’ll survive. He thinks I’m a b.i.t…., but he likes our life, most of the time. It’s when she hasn’t been around for a while he gets upset and thinks guilty thoughts about her. When she comes for a visit- he remembers what I’m good for, and how she drives him crazy. ( which, btw, is different than the way she drives me crazy. or her in-laws. You kind of have to respect that level of insanity-making.).
The letter-writer is a straightforward person. The person she’s dealing with is not straightforward, or humble, or anything. The letter-writer needs to learn to have the words not match her actions- leave the MIL alone in a room, then gush about a great visit. Have short speeches, but gush about how close you are.
Although, now that I think about it- what’s so upsetting about the MIL coming in a limo? The LW probably values humbleness and not ostentation. Maybe just being effusive- “So glad you made it! What a great car! Can the driver help with your bags? Thanks so much!” ( tip the driver) ” I’m so glad you decided to arrive in comfort and safety.” Limousines are so comfortable to ride in, so much less crowded than a cab…here’s your room. I already made tea…here’s a book…I’m running out the door……” If the LW is comfortable with hired cars, it’s less impressive. The MIL is either really comfortable in hired cars ( is she? They’re cheaper than cabs in New York, if you share them in a group) or wishes to make an entrance.
She might want to appear entirely wealthy. In which case- the right approach is equanimity. The grand fortunes in American history took two or three generations to solidify. If she can’t facilitate her children’s fortunes (good schools, and so on) she’s not really wealthy. My mom brags about her precious private high school, and how she’s superior to me, for that. I attended public schools- horrid ones- but my kids attend good schools. I’m effectively wealthier than her- I’m making good for my kids, while she depended on her parents, and couldn’t make the leap to nurturer. If she’s flashing, and her children are in modest circumstances, she’s effectively jersey fabulous- flashy, but not rich. Nobody wants to be Snooki, or JWOW, right?
And, again, ask questions. Be opaque. You’ll never get approval. Don’t even try. Ask questions, be non- threatening, mention stuff in print, or on the news. She’s worked very hard to be herself. There might be some kernel of something, for understanding. And,well, you can see how that particular nautilus is built, one assumption, one self-talk phrase at a time. And then, when she’s gone, you can check yourself for it, like checking for breast cancer- lump of self-righteousness, nodes of possessive anger,,the works.
and, well, she’s going to have to live in her nautilus, maybe for all eternity. I wouldn’t want an eternity of hell in my head.
Misery loves company.
Drawing a line in the sand is a good way to end up in the hotel permanently.
Two wrongs don’t make anything right.
Pitting your husband against his mother is Bad Medicine.
Responding to Nickel and others: it’s not about lashing out at the narcissist – you are correct that this will backfire.
It’s about indifference – which defuses the narcissist.
There is a way to say “you’re not welcome here anymore” while keeping your cool.
The suggestion to go away with your family when it’s “your turn” is excellent. It prevents your MIL from getting her narcissistic high from your discomfort – but is NOT ABOUT HER.
I would “make other plans” consistently whenever she wants to come – inluding “we’re just going out the door” when she calls.
All this MUST be done while remaining faultlessly polite, if not cordial. This is the hardest part – not showing at all that the narcissist has gotten under your skin.
If she ever confronts you, be dispassionate and frank. Never talk about your own feelings – they don’t care – focus on their behavior, draw your lines and stick to them.
And don’t let them make YOU responsible for their feelings.
“We saw how displeased you were every time you came – and I certainly didn’t like the way you spoke to Ed and the kids in our own house.”
“You may think they should be silent out of respect to you – but they are insulted, and I won’t have my children spoken to in that way in our house.”
My advice. Have some fun with her. Be creative. What I would do, is when she arrives, give her a big hug ,and take her coat. When you hang up her coat, let her visually see you sniff her coat. A couple places. Make sure she is watching. If she asks what you smell,you own her. Just say, oh nothing, I’ve always had a sensitive nose. You see, older people lose their sense of smell. Once you make her aware that you smell something, you can use my suggestion, or be creative, she will be hugely self-conscious for the rest of her visit, and beyond. For fun, give her a gift of scented soaps, perfumes, and drawer liners. Didn’t that bring a smile to your heart? Enjoy!
+1
Excellent advice, your lion to skunk metaphor
Oh man. The mind boggles with the opportunities to have fun with this. Borrow a bunch of used automobile tires and pile them just outside the front door. Find a friend with a partially disassembled motorcycle and park it in the living room. Instead of being blindsided by her verbal assaults, turn them into a drinking game. In short. be as outrageous as you can possibly be. Have fun with it.
Hubs seems to enable here, and I suspect he really enjoys his wife’s pain too. In other instances people use their kids that way to impose on others.
Being a WASP I am different than many of you, and would suggest that you go to the late Eric Berne for some strategies. Being what I am, I know to walk away from bad dealios, something ethnics don’t.
Personally, I made it very clear to my late mother that if I had to choose between my wife and her, she would be gone from my life. Once she got that message she was easy to deal with for the both of us.
Again hubs should man-up or wifey-kins should come to understand that he enjoys the show.
…go to the late Eric Berne for some strategies.
I read Games People Play (even gave it to my mom) and I met Eric Berne at a party.
A very aloof guy, on that particular day anyway. Seemed like a game.
I don’t understand the WASP/ethnic distinction.
I don’t have a relative as poisonous as that — Thank You, God — but if I did, and if said relative made a habit of coming to stay with us at intervals, I’d invest in a camper. Preferably a fifty-year-old Airstream. I’d park it right behind the house, and decree it to be our “guest facility.” (I’d also arrange that there be no guest room in the house proper.)
Poisonous Relative: What’s this?
Your Curmudgeon: This is where you’ll be staying. Don’t worry, we’ll make sure you’re notified of mealtimes and family get-togethers.
PR: Can’t you do any better than this?
YC: (smiling gently) No.
It might not “cure” the problem, but it would make for one hell of a lot of interesting chatter at the dinner table. After Poisonous Relative has departed for better climes, of course.
I don’t know, Francis, you may be too kind. I think I’d build a tent platform in the woods behind my house for her, and pitch a tent on it. And so that she wouldn’t have to go without the basic comforts, I’d run a long hose and extension chord from the house to the tent….
While you’re at it, you can blare this to her very loudly through outdoor speakers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcFkUHvlf5A&feature=related
My MIL is a vicious, bitter woman. I put up with her crap for 20 years (fortunately, we don’t live near by) — the comments and the gossip and the constant harping on everything that is wrong with her own husband. I put up with it right until the point, five years ago, when she said some nasty and untrue things about my husband in front of my daughter and a relative we hadn’t seen in ten years. I told her she didn’t know what she was talking about and those were the last words I spoke to her.
I am in control of who I tolerate and who I do not. I don’t break my back cleaning house beyond my own standards, and I don’t play passive aggressive games with her either. I simply do not talk to her. It’s just that easy.
She wants others to feel inferior to her. That’s her aim. That’s why she comes to visit…filled with shame. They project it outward and try to make others feel belittled, weak, and better still, too stunned to reply.
I have a relative with similar, albeit less extreme, tendencies. Humor and the well-placed bon mot alluding (obliquely of course) to the attacker’s insecurities usually defuse the moment, until the next sneak attack.
Imagining being sprayed will help, although I like skunks
Remember no one can make you feel inferior without your cooperation.
Bingo.
Ignore her. Quite simply, it takes two to tango, and if you ignore her BS it will fade away. Don’t give her satisfaction or fuel.
awesome article. Thanks! The idea of viewing them as a skunk – priceless. Items #2&3 were new gems in my coping bag.
-”there will never be a conversation with her that will produce an outcome satisfying to you.”
That comment helps me understand that I’m not missing anything.
-”People such as your MIL are inflexible, and don’t mellow with age.”
Yes, we get less subtle as we get older and so does the narcissist.
Oh how I wish I had access to this knowledge before I burned all my bridges handling things the wrong way. But at least it is helping me to move on. Thanks.
In the conincidence zone of odd, your screen name is the same as my narcissitic sister’s only daughter. I would be shocked and wonder if you might actually be my neice if I didn’t highly doubt my poor neice reads Pajama Media. Good luck to you with the plague we both seem to understand.
nickel – it’s not a match – I’m not an only child and you’d have to be my niece or my sister. Would have been funny though.
Obviously you have lived this problem, as have it, Becky. My niece is not an only child, just the only daughter. t would have been funny though and you can imagine my surprise when I saw your post.
I got nothing. Belladonna’s got GREAT advice.
The letter-writer is a kind, decent woman who wants to be recognized as such. She keeps her house clean for her children, and her husband. She is hospitable b/c SHE is hospitable, not b/c the guest is so great. I imagine her friends could fly in, and ask to be picked up at the airport. When they’d get to the house, they’d be so pleased at how decorated it is. She is reasonable in expecting to be praised for her good, caring work. I’m sure her husband and children and friends adore her.
My advice is always some version of stonewalling and disengagement. It’s different in both quality and kind from Belladonna Rogers, which is why I am so sure I shouldn’t have an advice column. Hers have a way forward, and some hope for change. I always assume that people will remain their own unpleasant, rigid, lunatic selves, and the only remedy is endurance. Although, in this case, it really might be the right advice.
I’m about to have a year where I put my foot down- no guests at all. I can’t take the turmoil anymore. Even when pleasant, lunatics are hard on the digestion and complexion. I am physically stiff and nearly ill after two or three days, esp when I’ve been on the business end of conversations. I tend to listen and make small comments, and this only encourages waxing eloquent. The “OWSing in my head”……remember that repellent video of the man and the police car??? I’m trying to have conversations with people I like, and two weeks later I’m still waking up in a sweat, arguing a point, or asking some anguished question, or not liking the answer I come up with. I like being in my own head, except for after holidays. Ya’ll thought I was joking about taking up drinking, but I’m really considering it at this point.
Four days of indigestion and criticism…..is she in her own bedroom? I’m going to guess yes. Can you move a TV in there? With videos? And picture travel books? That’s worked on one houseguest. If not, have her set up in the living room with the TV, and a tv tray for food and the remote. Tell the kids to stay out, unless they want the treatment. If she’s seated, put a blanket on her. Mention the chill in the air, if she says no. She’s older, and likely to fall asleep. That was my secret weapon last Christmas, three fleece blankets. Every last one of the in-laws fell asleep for long afternoon naps. They woke up for food, and were still kind of half-peaceful. and they drooled in their sleep. so when they got excited and told me how my life…….anyway, the image of drooling big babies made it easier to bear the criticisms.
As for the house- it won’t ever be good enough, why waste the time? I had a one week cleaning fit for one particularly sharp knife. I thought I was putting the cutting off-limits, and the last thing before walking out the door at the end of a strenuously pleasant, non-committal visit: You really need to clean the schmutz off the base of the water-dispenser on your fridge. You know- the water dispenser that’s on the door of refrigerators? The base of that, that always has drips if you have children who can get their own drinks? In hot weather? At that point, I was- you committed bachelor clueless you. It helped that the following year, the advice was that I needed re-decorating to the tune of over half my husband’s yearly pay. Not- I might like- but that I NEEDED it. unreal. all of it, of course, child- unfriendly.
Has her criticism spurred your husband onward to success? Is the house noticeably better before her visits? Does he appreciate that you are a warm and inviting person? Do you look up to him? Does he love your mother? Do you ? Did you two create a life for yourselves based on what you didn’t want? Are the criticisms random? Is there a speech pattern?
Like, I can’t cope with my mom b/c her criticisms come out of thin air- she’ll start a sentence, and halfway through, start lying in some spectacular, sticky, appalling fashion. And they are always so weird and unexpected, that you don’t know how to even start to respond. So she’s simply not allowed at my house. I don’t need her doing what she’s done in the past, to my boyfriends, to my husband.
My dad….I’m up in the air, here. I’d always had excuses. My husband will only talk to him about a very few subjects: how great the kids are, how nice the weather is, and that’s it. If Dad starts going, which he will, my husband will excuse himself and walk off, or interrupt and change the subject back to the kids. He also goes to the office, or runs errands with the kids, or goes about doing what he intended to do in the first place.
The spouses’ mother has a four sentence drive to the cemetery. Any four sentences end with how someone died. So I count out three sentences and change the subject. I finally figured this out, after she scared my kids. Before this, I just tolerated it as her eccentricity, and thought I was being squeamish.We went to go see her, and there was a song on the radio. Elvis, whom we are missing this week. She spent an hour telling my children that Elvis died at the same age as their father, very unexpectedly, no one knew the cause, unexpectedly, same age as your father,had a child, unexpectedly….When she left her house for an errand, the oldest kid asked that I call his father, and he just sat on the phone, listening to his dad breath. And then moved onto our bedroom floor for the summer, to hear him breath. That’s when I got serious about not tolerating the carrion-crow. Three sentences, and interrupt. She looks very frustrated by the end of her visit, and a little flustered, but I say, warmly ” It was such a good visit!” and send her off. She’s not sure what happened.
In this case, honestly, I’d send the kids to their friends house for Thanksgiving. If you have teenagers, they’ll like the chance to hang out. Wave your hands helplessly when the MIL asks where they are. “Teenagers, you know…” She has a low enough opinion of everybody that teens off and away sounds logical to her. I only know one MIL-type who had enough kevorka to force teens into attendance. But most MIL’s aren’t at her Sith Master level of Force. So, send the teens away, so they aren’t in the line of fire.
Children? are usually clueless enough that they like any and all grandparents. I adored my great- grandmothers, even though they sent their children and grandchildren through the roof. They thought I was terrific, and that’s all that counted. I still think they were terrific, and they’ve both been dead ten years. If she’s foolish enough to criticize a child, and the child talks back, send the kid to his/her room, and go have the comforting Disney parent talk- of course things are difficult, and i’m proud of you for standing up for yourself. something we learn is to speak with respect, b/c we are respectful, not b/c the recipient is all that and a bag of chips. I love Disney movies. I didn’t see them til I was a grownup, and they are so awesome. Who wouldn’t want to live in Disney world? Kind, creative, empathetic, stable, upper-middle class families?
Have the spouse schedule work Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Plead helplessness in the face of a weak economy.
Find errands to run Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Or work.
If you want to go for the gold, tell her that your family is volunteering at a homeless person Thanksgiving, and you are so excited that she can pitch in with you. That the place needs all the hands it can get.
I’m just working on- your holiday is ruined,no matter what. So, salvage what you can. You can have your small non-negotiables. I work with about 2 1/2 hours of non- negotiables at Christmas- a movie, and a Christmas Eve church service, and we’ve added morning alone with the kids, when the IL’s couldn’t behave. So- 4 hours in one week, for me to feel successful. What do you need? The whole meal? The weekend?
Can you leave a key under the doormat for her? Do you have to be there when she arrives? A note on the door saying the neighbor will let her in? Just because she resides at your address for the holidays doesn’t mean she can force your attendance upon her. That’s the trap you are in: you are nice, and you think a visit means visiting. a visit can mean- residing at that address for a few days, while everyone else is out and busy.
Oh, also, there is the ask questions. When she criticizes something, ask how she does it. Ask in a warm, curious voice. ask how she learned it, and so on. Be reflective. she’s not your mom, and just b/c she’s older doesn’t mean she’s a surrogate mom. She’s just an older person you can interview. Ask, ask follow up questions, if you bring in supporting material- don’t bring in your own life- that will feel competitive. bring in stuff you’ve read. Everyone wants to be a part of history. don’t bring in big stuff- a sentence or two- and keep asking. The wildly unpleasant people that populate my life- got that way for many reasons. I might be the only person they’ve told about their summer with one bag of potatoes, and that’s it, to eat. or the one blouse they had in high school for three years. or how their mom died. or how the neighbor poisoned their cat, in grade school.
There is a downside to the ask method: she might feel close to you. Close to a monster is still–well, monstrous, even if they love you. Fairy-tales are supposed to be over there, not right here, right now. It takes some fortitude to be the favorite person of really appalling people.
Maybe a meal at a restaurant? Just the spouse, you and her? Noisy and crowded? it’s our go- to solution. we have the kids, but still-
Turkeys are cheap, even the week after. stores are unloading inventory. you can still cook for your family, and have a family meal the week after her visit. If this is your version of success…..
I hope some of this helps. There really isn’t a good solution to bad people, you know? We’ve gotten used to good people in the USA being the norm. It is- I think research says 84%- and that’s at the low end. I’m sorry you drew the short straw. I bet you are impressed that your husband is such a great, good guy. He’s lucky to have you protecting him, and protecting your house and children. You’re very strong.
ari, interesting read. This was very good advice: “When she criticizes something, ask how she does it. Ask in a warm, curious voice. ask how she learned it, and so on.”
I only wish I knew then what I know now. Too late for me to repair the damage. But I wish I could go back to where I could say things like “you are so right!”, and “how do you do it?” as well as incorporate the other tricks.
The price was losing my family, whom I love. But, in the end, maybe it was a blessing because I have moved on to where at least I can look forward to pleasant holiday memories without having to dread it for months ahead, endure it and anguish about it when it is over.
I am so sorry that you lost your family, and people that you love. I do hope you have good holidays from here on out. I hope there is some way to repair some salvageable part, if not now, then in the future. Every heart rises to converge, right?
Thanks, Ari. You are a good person. I only wish I had read (and understood) this thread 10 years ago. I couldn’t have changed much, but I could have prevented such a final split.
I’m enjoying reading this entire thread at 4 AM. It is therapy for me. Your advice above is probably the best piece of advice in here, “The letter-writer needs to learn to have the words not match her actions- leave the MIL alone in a room, then gush about a great visit. Have short speeches, but gush about how close you are.” Loved your examples (and the others). Classic! Gave me a hearty laugh – just p.e.r.f.e.c.t
Yes, I’m sorry for my own loss as it comes to the rest of the family and the grown children of the narcissist. They all get together several times a year and I see the pictures on facebook and feel sad. We all had many years of good times together.
That said, there is something very liberating about not having to walk through the gauntlet this year. While I will miss the chaos, I do have another side of the family that doesn’t treat me like a leper whose political and religious beliefs might contaminate the food (mind you, I’m NOT the one bringing up my beliefs, they hit us when we walk in the door. Quiet moments always lead to an inquisition of my purity to the liberal cause and faith).
Life is about balance. And at some point the scales tip and you realize you are getting less out if it than it is taking out of you. So after 5 years of trying REALLY, REALLY hard to make it work – and failing – I’m ready to accept that now. I’m excited about moving on and blazing a new path. The way I see it is, if it hadn’t fallen irrepairably apart, then 5 years from now, I would be in exactly the same place I was 5 years ago. But five years from now, I hope to have our Thanksgiving meal filled with new friends or adventures that are not be spoiled by the taste of bitterness.
Ari, you’ve been around the block. I’m not easily impressed. I’m impressed.
Another question to ask, in a neutral if curious, wondering voice: “Why would you say something like that?” (Note: NOT “*How could* you say something like that?” They don’t know, don’t care, and you feed the beast.) But hit the WHY, and hard. You’ll prob. get something along the lines of “for your own good” and “if I didn’t love/care about you, I wouldn’t say anything.” That is, of course, a massive load of BS; another anal gland skunk spray, if you will. Don’t buy into it. Ask again, and don’t allow diversion. A GREAT once in a while, when they can’t answer (and they can’t or won’t), a follow-up such as “How would you feel if someone spoke to you that way?” can put a stop to the grossness, even if temporarily.
When all else fails — and mind you, it prob. will unless it’s the rare, I-don’t-know-how-else-to-act skunk (or the even rarer haven’t-done-hard-work-figuring-myself-out variant) — pull out the big guns, and flat-out ban the person from your home, your presence, your life, unless & until they can at least keep their poision inside. Tell them why. Insist that PERHAPS at some future, but unnamed point there will be another chance somewhere neutral, but that will be it. Period.
In my own family we seem to have a good mix of easy going types and straight shooters. Currently we are feuding and we tend to do ours at some distance and with an absence of communication. Just owning up that my own family is far from perfect before I suggest how Drill Sgt. M-I-L might be handled.
If picturing a skunk’s rear end helps you cope with her running commentary, go with it. Share it with others. If drinking helps a little, be sure to serve it as she walks in the door. I went to several Thanksgiving dinners with a family that had such a beast and the son-in-law had a drink waiting for her and he’d gently ask, “Are you drinking or are we?” Another friend is a master of making people own their negativity, she stares at them until they are through, pauses for a moment, and then changes the subject.
In my own family, Sgt. M-I-L would be confronted and asked one of two questions, “Is there nothing the doctors can do…about your unhappiness?” Or, “Oh dear, worried about cleanliness? There are cleaning supplies under your bathroom sink and under the kitchen sink. Don’t be bashful, you’re family.”
I’d be careful with the cleaning one. the MIL wants to go f*** around in my kitchen. I’ll go out, and come home to every dish out of the cabinets, spread over every surface, and four dishes in the dishwasher- and the dishwasher going on a full pre-rinse, sanitizer– a three hour tour for four dishes- two plastic cups in the bottom of the dishwasher- thus melting my daughter’s favorite limited edition pink princess plates……my stomach hurts. and it’s so bizarre that I’m not sure how to react. I’ve got a limited amount of time and energy to get dinner and then Thanksgiving going on, and now this crazy woman has emptied my cabinets- and HID MY UTENSILS AND MEASURING CUPS….and is ” I was just trying to help…and I was so poor that I never had a dishwasher growing up…” ( newsflash- nobody had a dishwasher then. it’s a nifty modern device. it comes with a manual, or you can call the manufacturor, or just look at the dishes in an advertisement for dish-soap, to figure out how to put the dishes in. just saying….) ( my grands grew up without indoor water, and they learned to use indoor toilets and regular sinks…the crazy lady can learn stuff, too.)
I wouldn’t put it past her to mix bleach and ammonia in the bathroom, to get a ride to the hospital, to get attention. I’m being bleak, but I do switch to disposable wipes during the holidays, and I don’t keep cleaning supplies easily available to anyone. But- I also had small kids for a decade. I had to learn to clean with baking soda and vinegar. toothpaste and shampoo really does work in the toilet- toothpaste has abrasives.
My parents are occasionally very difficult people. When I was organizing my wedding, and worrying what stunts they would pull, my pastor said “This is your wedding. You don’t have to invite them unless you want to!” I was shocked. Of course, I ended up inviting them, but just knowing that I didn’t have to invite people I didn’t want to invite was liberating. I have never forgotten this. My advice to Bewildered: just don’t. If it is impossible to please her when she visits you, what difference does it make if you don’t invite her? What, she will be displeased? Same dif, as the kids would say. One other note, I cannot believe this woman is a happy person. She is her own punishment.
“Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry to hear that!” is a great phrase for both uncooperative children, and the unpleasant adult. And once the unpleasant adult hears you say that to uncooperative children, they realize they’re being patronized. It’s loads of fun, and can be turned into a drinking game. “The other Jeanette” (there seems to be an attitude that goes with our name?) keeps a large jug of wine under the kitchen sink during MIL visits; whenever she hears “you know, you could dust those knicknacks every once in a while” or a reasonable facsimile, she pours herself a glass and blondly offers a glass to the MIL too.
Great suggestions. Wine’s a good idea. When I was a young married, after the MIL left, after she had rearranged my kitchen cabinets to her liking, I’d go into the kitchen to fix it (I’m short, she’s tall, so I had to move glassware back). Anyway, I’d crank up my go-to song by Ledisi “Get Outta My Kitchen (Telling Me How to Cook/Ain’t None of Your Business/Ain’t No Need to Look).” It was very therapeutic, though my husband thought I was nuts.
Lord have mercy. All these suggestions & advice are interesting to contemplate & some might actually work. Meantime, one’s stomach is still in a knot. Is it worth it? If I were in this lady’s shoes, I’d hand my husband an ultimatum: You talk to your mother about behaving herself or I am off to the beach, a cruise, whatever, with the kids for the holiday. She’d have one chance to show she can act like a decent human being or be forever banished from the house from then on (or he is welcome to entertain her there by himself).
I’m almost 60 yrs old. I learned a long time ago that the amount of crap you get is directly proportional to the amount you indicate you’re willing to put up with.
With the first crack out of that woman’s mouth, her luggage would be packed and sitting on the porch next to her while she waited for the taxi I called. Hubby has a problem with that? Where’s his suitcase?
I like your style, Pamela.
This creature cannot force herself into your home, and you don’t have to open the door.
I would dis-invite her. If she insists on showing up, be somewhere else. If you can’t afford that, leave her on the steps.
You get what you tolerate. Her behavior is not your problem, unless you let it be. My wife is number one, my parents, for the record, would be a distant second. That was always clear. (They probably would have kept my wife and kicked me out of the family if it came to a vote, but I married well.)
Oh, for the record, my in-laws were wonderful. I miss them.
Actually it is nice to know from the comments that interaction with skunks isn’t as common as I feared. Now if I could only figure out why so many of them are in my life. Masochist,genetic predisposition, sub conscious attraction or just plain unlucky? There is usually a “slave” with the narcissit, this is someone who is reliving generally his relationship with his own mother who then subconsciously seeks out a replica of his mother and marries her. They are often amazingly competent and warm individuals who the “skunk” not only fully exploits and treats as her personal slave, but doesn’t even respect, after all who would fully respect someone who would grovel for such a beast as me? I have seen this played out from certain different angles with the various narcissits in my life and it is amazing to watch. As a psychologist once explained to me, the narcissit isn’t just probing for weakness so she can exploit her victims, she won’t tolerate anything less than total submission. Thus she ends up ultimately with the “slave” waiting on her hand and foot, until they normally predecease them, and then in desperation the skunk starts calling in all her remaining chits, on those who must at least give her an audience. Skunks after all are totally incapable of any modification in behavior or even to recognize that they are a narcisst, or even that the term exists. I am older now and can smile at those that have passed and only thank God for the wisdom to stay away from those friends and relatives of mine who will never change.
I used to be married to a male “skunk”. Needless to say, it didn’t work out. I only wish I would’ve known he was like that. I’m still trying to get the stench out of my mind. I got sprayed pretty bad.
Quick. Run out and get (or download) a copy of Georgette Heyer’s “The Unknown Ajax.” Yes, it is a romance novel, but it is also the ultimate self-help book for learning how to deal with awful people. The hero, Hugo Darracott, is a master at the art of just letting other people’s ugliness wash over him, and then politely going his own way. I’ve read it three times recently, and am doing much better handling the teenagers in my household!
My MIL can be highly critical. It’s mainly nitpicking while she’s visiting. And my FIL gets his digs in, too, on his trigger topics. All you can do is rise above it, and what I mean by that is you can say “enough is enough,” and then let it go and move on. Sometimes humor works. One time, at a restaurant, my entree salad came early. MIL frowned deeply at the plate and went on and on how disgustingly large my salad was (she’s made a big deal of my weight in the past, so I figured ordering salad would guarantee immunity — not so!). I just let her go on about it, then when there was a brief pause, I asked others at the table if they had anything to say about my salad before I ate it. Silence. I said, “Okay then.” And started shoveling in the greens. I have loads of funny stories like that now I share with friends who need a chuckle. Anyway, the skunk imagery is pretty funny. Great advice.
You genius, you. Okay, other stories? Anecdotes? I’m at the end of my rope.
But didn’t you feel the urge to stab her with your salad fork?
My MIL is pretty hopped up on the weight issue, too. I count to ten, and tell my kids how they were born 50% bigger than her kids, and they are much healthier, and it was worth it. My oldest kid writes stories about skinny goddesses birthing monsters, and fat goddesses birthing the heroes of Greek mythology. Ha.
Although, I’m shallow enough that my big resolve is to lose weight, and I haven’t a clue how. All my lunges towards diets—I’ve gained twenty pounds!!
The weight thing is really hard. I wear a lot of black, then break out the “color” when they’re gone. Just kidding. I really haven’t plotted out a strategy on that score. I’ve heard my MIL and FIL say despicable things about others’ weight over the years (including making cow noises) — on a few occasions, I’ve stepped in with a really biting defense, even though those people were not around to hear what they said. So maybe you can catch your in-law gossiping about someone else and say something like, “If [Name] was just around the corner and overheard us talking about his/her weight, how do you think [Name] would feel? I think [Name] would be in tears.” When I said something very similar like that to them years ago, my MIL, FIL and visitors changed their tune to “who can be the kindest, most PC person in the room.” So I guess it worked, albeit temporarily.
But what do we do when we’re the target? I’m usually honest and say, yeah, I’m working on it. Like a spoiler, I jump right to the punchline. But I do like to find the “funny” in the circumstances. If I can take their assumption and exaggerate it a little into the ridiculous, then I’ve done my job (have you ever read about OODA loops?). If the premise is that I need to lose weight, then maybe I wear my jogging outfit and sweatband and run up and down the steps outside the dining room, huffing and wheezing, in a dramatic display to “earn my dessert.” Or cutting a ridiculously teeny sliver of pie and placing it on your plate and then s-l-o-w-l-y eating it, with lots of grateful moaning. I dunno — maybe not my best jokes, but why not have fun a little, Carol Burnett style. Any kids around will get a kick out of it. They’ll be your fans.
What I’ve found over the years is that they are very afraid of losing their health and their looks, and now they’ve started to nitpick at each other about weight. That’s sad, isn’t it? Underneath it all, they’re terribly afraid.
you are an all around better person than me- I’m still at “picture stabbing her with a salad fork.” not advanced to- make jokes, put it on the table for discuusion. Way to go, you!
that part that’s painful is that I grew up in a messy custody situation, so during childhood I got to go to other families holidays. NICE families, full of NICE people. They were kind, and humble, and decent. They made stuff- crochet and tatting and weird seventies craft stuff, so it was fun for us kids. And there were babies all over the place, and cousins to grow up with. And- again- they were nice and gentle.
Right now, I’m stuck with direct relatives, and my poor kids have only grouchy, misanthropic old people around. Who are sucky people in general. There’s a reason they are alone on holidays. I never had to deal with them, growing up. This year, in number of days- my kids have spent more time with my biological father, than I did, total, as a kid. I feel sorry for my kids, honestly. I had a much better time than they did.
and no- I can’t go back- the main organizers died of old, old, old, old age. Like, 100+ years old age. 90+ years old age. One guy died at 89 and they were mourning that he’d died too young.
There are nice people skills. They can be taught- I got taught- and the grownup old people in my life right now don’t have them, and don’t have a clue what they are. Grownups!!!! NO CLUE!!!!! and I’m stuck, b/c I’m trying to have my kids get to know their grandparents, so they can have the insouciance of lots of relatives doting on them. It’s like explaining foreign customs. Simple things- like saying “Please” and “Thank you” and put the toilet seat and lid down, or harder things like- don’t interrupt the second you get bored- It’s unreal how unpleasant it can be.
You have a sense of humor and a sense of what motivates your MIL is terrific. And you play along. That’s amazing great.
Sounds like we could share a lot of stories, you and me. Ditto for the messy backgrounds. They’ll always be a part of us, and always affect how we take other people’s comments. It’s a constant battle for me to stay positive. And I pretty much suck at it, to be honest. I can see the value of having your kids around older people. Not sure the ages of your kids, but lay the story out on the table, and ask for their ideas on how to brighten up the place, the mood with these folks? Kids are incredibly creative, it’s mind-blowing. And though it’d be nice for them to meet nice seniors (there are plenty out there, somewhere), the truth is the lesson for them is how to manage this messy situation, when older people are grumpy and maybe have some emotional barricade to break through. But kids are magical. If they are given the permission to brighten a room, they’ll go for broke. If it doesn’t work, or quite like they had hoped, just give them a big bear hug and say that much of life is about planting seeds. Someone else will water them. Your kids will use those resilient skills to help others break down those barriers. A few thoughts to pass time with elderly (things I’ve done that have worked): print out a batch of classic holiday songs, intermingled with some holiday jokes, and make copies for the whole gang, and hand them out and go through page by page; little skits and plays; get each person in the room to share a brief story of a favorite holiday gift; and so on). There used to be a pdf accessible online called Human Pingpong Ball and it was packed with whacky improv ideas. Even if the elderly don’t participate in a skit, that’s okay, they can watch. And even if they can’t read the music in the playbook, they’ll likely recognize the tunes. Just some thoughts. I know it’s hard. Especially if your own memories of your own family are painful. I went to a friend’s wedding one time, the way the family was toward each other was so incredible and loving, I was overwhelmed. I’m ashamed to say, I cried on my drive home. Kept wishing my family was whole and could be that way. It’s sad. But you’ll be making new memories, defy the sad ones.
Oh, and ari
For more healing, can I recommend Sara Groves “Less Like Scars.” All her music is so deep and meaningful and strikes at the root. Amazing.
hey, thanks for the musical suggestion!
Two other great healing songs: It’s Gonna Be Alright and (my favorite) Add to the Beauty.
you know, though, on weight- I’m still at “visualize stabbing her with a salad fork.” Our family has had interesting finances the last few years. Christmas, Thanksgiving and Easter are the only luxurious meals my kids get. Some crazy old lady pratting on about stymied appetites needs to shut up, as far as I’m concerned. She’s really proud that she never served beans and rice to her husband or son- her husband worked 12+ hours- sometimes 24+ to keep her in steak. My husband works, I worked. For a few years, the hours between 4am and 6 am were the only hours we weren’t generating income. And my kids were eating beans and rice. They can eat any-damn-thing they desire at Thanksgiving.
And, for me- I was skinny. When I was 95 pounds my mother was calling me fat. I had three kids and gained a ton of weight for each pregnancy. And I had enormous, brilliant, healthy, happy babies. She can’t say that. She just has- she was skinny. I have accomplishments- she has skinniness. It’ll be on her tombstone. I’m pudgy, and accomplishing things, and eventually I’ll be thin and fit again. It’s frustrating. I wasn’t fat and jolly as a kid. I was thin, and healthy, and I got a ring-side seat at my grandmother hating herself for being out of shape. I don’t have time for it, my daughter doesn’t have time for it.
I don’t have time for my MIL’s comments about weight. I don’t even have enough humor to make jokes.
My sister stopped speaking to my mom decades ago, and I completely understand. Sometimes you have to cut toxic people out of your life — that’s the only way to have a healthy life. Doesn’t it boggle your mind the contortions good people go through to maintain relationships with a person who will never bend? It’s all screwy, but I’ve seen more and more expected from the good and more and more excuses for those who cause strife. They hold us in bondage because we care more about the ties than they do. I know bend too much, I’m sure, except when someone else is hurt, in which case I turn into a stick of dynamite (kaboom!).
Or you could just NOT INVITE HER. In fact, tell her she’s unwelcome, and tell her why. If you have to, refuse to let her in when she arrives uninvited. Turn her back at the door; Return her letters unread and unopened.
It’s called shunning. And it works.
If you start to feel guilty about it, remember: she’s a mother in law, she doesn’t hold the mortgage on your husband. Or on YOU. And like any other creature, she will continue to behave badly until her bad behavior actually bears consequences. Do you imagine she treats anyone else in her life any better? Do you imagine that it really makes her happy? She probably comes to your house because it’s the only place in her life that she’s still welcome. And if she doesn’t learn better— if you and the other sisters-in-law don’t MAKE her learn better— she’s looking at spending her remaining years alone.
A few holidays “uninvited” just might break through the rocks in her head and let her see the light.
To add, the reason my MIL is so critical is she’s competitive. She wants to be seen as perfect in everything. She wants acknowledgment for being the best at whatever. Truth is, she’s remarkably talented and capable. So, I “let her win” as often as I can, with genuine compliments. I joke with her about lowering the lights so she won’t see the dust. Stuff like that. I hope it helps her to relax a little around us. If she’s already won the race, she can stop proving it over and over again. Anyway, we hit sticky points from time to time, when I’m on low reserves and something gets under my skin. I just let my in-laws know. Not saying it’s easy to deal with, but dropping the competitiveness helps a great deal. Women are fiercely competitive in all areas from career to child-rearing to potluck dishes to Christmas decorating. And my MIL is no different.
Brilliant insight. Men, especially, need to be clued in to the depths and intensity of women’s competitiveness. Men think they have a monopoly on competitiveness, but far from it. Your coping mechanisms sound very successful. Keep up the good work.
Thanks! Another time she pressed to come over and fix our messed-up house. I just said, “Nope. Come for fun. I don’t want your help cleaning because you make me work too hard.” She and the FIL had to laugh. Yeah, I was mildly offended, but telling the joke was far more fun than getting ticked.
Does it help that you’re a finalist in the “worst mother in law” contest here? woohoo, you rock!
Bewildered in Baton Rouge,
Count your lucky stars you don’t have a business relationship w/such a person. Imagine dealing w/an individual who has just enough smarts & money to threaten legal action against innocent you on a daily basis. And you don’t have the finances to hire a good lawyer or any lawyer.
Oh, looking at the clock we are going to have to end now. If you would leave the hourly fee on my assistants desk as you leave the office that would be fine. Next week can you make the same time?
After 10 years of marriage I finally realized that if it wasn’t important enough to my husband to have a good relationship with his parents why should it be so important to me. I told him that until he was able to set some boundaries and extablish an actual relationship count me out. It started with his parents staying in a hotel when they came to visit so that we got a breather and eventually I just refused to deal with them. If he feels he needs to see her he goes to her home for a weekend. If she calls the house I don’t pick up. Our marriage has been a lot less stressful. Once the kids were of a certain age I let them decide how much they wanted his parents in their lives. They gave it a go for their father’s sake but eventually they gave up too. What has really surprised me is that he is much happier with things this way. The other, not so surprising, thing is that his parents have never asked why they don’t see me any more. They just make noises that it would be nice to see the whole family. Which means that on some level – they get it.
My mother is a narcissist – and based on what she has told me, she very specifically chose that behavior pattern when she was a teenager. Picked it up from a great aunt that no one in the family liked, but for some reason, she decided it was the way to go. I doubt that she has ever told anyone, including my father, that she loved them.
All I knew all through my growing up years was that I wanted to get away from her. Finally managed it after college. I put up with her nastiness for many years – I was used to it and it seemed like “correct” way to behave. Too bad she couldn’t figure out the “correct” way to treat your children. But then about eight years ago she started in on my oldest child who is a very sweet person, and at that point, I had had enough and told her I was done with her. I haven’t seen her since then, and I have been much happier without her. I was only the first domino to fall. About a year ago, the last of my siblings who tried to maintain a relationship with her finally had had enough. The word she uses to describe our mother is “evil”. I have to agree with her.
Scott Peck’s book, The People of the Lie, is all about narcissists. After reading it, I think that narcissists know what they are, and like my mother, have deliberately decided to be this way. And they are evil. The Church says that God gave humanity the freedom to choose good or evil. Well, these folks chose evil.
Unfortunately, many good but naive people do not, at first, recognize narcissists and may give you grief for cutting yourself off from your [fill in the blank]. They just don’t understand how bad it can be.
Read “Leaving Home” by David Celani Excellent book. You’ll never have a twinge of guilt in your healthy decision.
The title of this article describes Obama perfectly. The only thing missing is the insatiable appetite.
Wow! Great column and the comments are interesting, especially Louise…what a quick wit you are. My MIL case is not as extreme but is more frequent. I host Thanksgiving and Christmas every year. My own parents passed away a long time ago. Now in my fifties, I have learned a great deal about myself and others. I see people in two categories: secure and insecure. In the insecure category there are two types: competitors and approval seekers. I am an approval seeker. When I married my husband my goal was to win the love and approval of my new family. My FIL was a cinch, but the MIL is a competitor who’s goal is to surpass me in every imaginable way. The SIL is a chip off the old MIL. I spent years silently enduring put downs, criticisms, and disapprovals. I became resentful and bitter. As a Christian, I came to see my desire for the love and approval of others was a form of idolatry. I also came to the realization that people will treat you as poorly as you allow them. Change came and I believe they took notice. I will never be close, as I don’t really like them, but now I’m okay with them not liking me. During the holidays my coping mechanism is to stay extremely BUSY and refuse to delegate. I’m happier that way. Maybe all of us will face the holidays with a healthier perspective and come out better for it. Happy Thanksgiving!
C.S. Lewis said that, as each day passes one after the other, we are becoming more and more like what we will be for eternity: either an angelic being in God’s presence, someone we’d be inclined to bow down and worship if we were to behold him/her in our current state; or a hideous demonic outcast so appalling, wretched and fearful that we’d recoil in horror at the sight.
Presuming Lewis was onto something, the “skunk” is more to be pitied, not feared. She is not just going to Hell, she is there already — and will be there for eternity unless the Lord awakens her to her plight.
Something in all of us wants justice, small “j”, to be meted out and see such a woman put in her place. But none of us wants justice for ourselves. All have fallen short of God’s glory. We are a fallen race.
Pray for her.
sigh. thank you.
I have great respect for the words of C. S. Lewis, and I sincerely hope that he is right here. The suggestion that we pray for these personality-disordered “skunks” is a good and charitable one. But the question is what to do about one’s own suffering. A charitable attitude, pity and prayer are simply not enough. A policy of containment (if I may coin one, there) that includes strong boundaries, physical distance, and a myriad other things is needed for a sufferer to be able to live a normal life.
As fallen creatures, we (regrettably) cannot manage the world by prayer.
I do speak from some experience, both personal and as a therapist…
I’m not sure if there’s a hell or not, but I like the quote. When I feel angry, or bitter, I try to keep it in mind.
My advice. Have some fun with her. Be creative. What I would do, is when she arrives, give her a big hug ,and take her coat. When you hang up her coat, let her visually see you sniff her coat. A couple places. Make sure she is watching. If she asks what you smell,you own her. Just say, oh nothing, I’ve always had a sensitive nose. You see, older people lose their sense of smell. Once you make her aware that you smell something, you can use my suggestion, or be creative, she will be hugely self-conscious for the rest of her visit, and beyond. For fun, give her a gift of scented soaps, perfumes, and drawer liners. Didn’t that bring a smile to your heart? Enjoy!
How about the husband “cowboy up” and tell her she is no longer welcome until she learns to behave. I’m sure she used those sort of tactics on her kids as they grew up!!
Dear Bewildered, print out this post, and let this person see it. Don’t worry about how she may react. If she holds it in, she may never return. If she is offended, she may never return. If not, she will at last know how you and your husband see her.
My mother was exactly like this, to everyone regardless of their position, relationship to her or the situation.
Finally, when my dad died, she lost every single ‘friend’ who had suffered her for all those years, and every one of her four children.
Not to miss a beat, she re-wrote her will to specifically exclude each child by name and with a descriptive paragraph of why.
Fortunately, my sister called me warning me so I refused the registered, signature-required envelope on delivery.
Do NOT put up with this SHIT anymore, just say “we have made other plans” and be done with it.
I feel so happy that I have no longer a similar poisonous person like that within my family circle. She dead. Amen. But I am not sure that calling her ilk a narcissist is broad or deep enough to deal with what she really is. She is evil. How would you refer to the devil? as a narcissist? No. The woman witch devil in my life was evil and did great harm to people close to her during her lifetime, Thank God she died most painfully with a horrible lung cancer.
How do you know if you are being controlled by a Narcissist? http://www.squidoo.com/whos-pulling-your-strings