The Real Problem for Conservatives
The RealClearPolitics average illustrating President Obama’s 60%+ approval rating after his first 100 days in office should give conservatives pause for concern when contemplating their political prospects for the future.
However, Jim Tedisco’s recent narrow defeat to Scott Murphy in New York’s 20th congressional district — a district that provided Democrat Kristen Gillibrand with almost 62% of the votes cast in 2008 — provides a glimmer of hope for conservative prospects in 2010. Right?
Not so fast.
I am a 27-year-old staunch conservative, and it pains me to write that conservatives will continue to have problems winning politically in the foreseeable future. The reason lies not with conservatism’s adherence to age-old principles of personal responsibility, traditional morality, and free-market capitalism. Rather, the conservative plight resides in two areas of the current political environment.
The first is President Obama’s eloquent technique of attacking a conservative straw man and his use of non sequiturs: arguing the imperative for health care reform to help counter the current economic recession, for example. Disregarding Obama’s free pass from the press, these logically flawed arguments are nonetheless effective and resonate with the public — a substantial reason for conservatives to worry about the future of their cause. However, I will not expound further on Obama’s Houdini-like homilies proselytizing on the pillars of the church of liberalism. Rather, I will focus on the inherently feeble conservative response.
Conservatism’s real quandary lies in the fact that it cannot be effectively communicated in a Moveon-esque, 20-second sound clip — a medium that my Pavlovian generation flocks to without a critical thought. Liberalism is an ideology of emotion and false hope: a deadly combination. Conservatism takes some thought and deductive reasoning: a deadly knell.
For example, it’s easy to campaign on a liberal promise to provide universal health care for all. And it is next to impossible to communicate an equally effective argument against this proposal. Without losing the audience, how does one prove the (seemingly self-evident) truth that universal health care for 300 million individuals is impossible to economically sustain without massive tax increases on the middle class and medical care rationing? And if a conservative is gifted enough to keep the audience interested to this point, it is also equally important (and difficult) to provide the listener with a compelling alternative.
The present conservative attempt at providing a case for free market solutions based on an individual necessity with limited governmental intervention is leading a majority of Americans to vote for the guy or gal that states the easy euphemism “everybody is entitled to be healthy” while preparing to vote for punitive tax measures on the same constituency.
“Conservatives can’t continue to play Scrooge when the liberals play Santa Claus”? Who says they are playing Scrooge? This strikes me as odd. The American conservatives loose one election because they ran a moderate in a bad economy and now every RINO and liberal Democrat has his panties in a knot. I think the real problems are in the Democratic Party and why echo so-called polls? Science my foot.
This is a wordy and long version of the argument that the leftists suborned the schools first, and two generations later we are generally lesser people capable of less reasoned thought. It has been proposed many times that governing a poorly educated populace is easier (ex. current arab civilization) and that it was the goal of the left to create a more governable population by defeating the US education system first. Flooding the land with the uneducated impoverished of central america sealed the deal. Until we take back education, the US will remain in a state of devolution.
If you’ve ever seen that internet meme “8th grade high school final exam from 1890″ that makes the perpetual rounds, you know what I mean.
The solution of this problem is the domain and role of art. Art can provide images (worth a trillion words… inflation, you understand) and stories (worth a trillion sound bites) that resonate and last in the mind of the public. We need morality plays for adults, and fables for children, the points of which are that irresponsible choices lead to disaster, and hard work fulfills an intelligent goal-oriented life. These are complex issues, true, but over the spand and course of a thoughtful work of art, they can be effectively communicated. Without art, we are lost. With it, we can win much more than merely the next election.
The first problem for conservatives is getting rid of this woe is me attitude. It’s easy to campaign on universal healthcare? Who managed to kill UH and sweep elections in 1994 again?
You currently lose on healthcare because the problem only managed to get bigger and the republican response is still muddled (I think it has something to do with health savings accounts… whatever). I mean, you contradict yourself on your own point. You claim the conservative argument is self evident yet at the same time too complicated to explain quickly. No, people understand your argument, it’s just that it’s ridiculous to tell people to fear rationing when their fear is not being insured at all.
You call social security an economic disaster, but where is your evidence? You do realize how ridiculously divorced from reality it sounds to complain about social security when someone’s 401k is on life support?
Once again, this is another example where the public concern and hurts the conservative position. You’re arguing a larger (very ideological) point without any regard to the present, to any current external reality.
The real problem for conservatives is a refusal to address specific problems that americans face. If americans aren’t perceiving the same problems as you, then your priorities are obviously out of order. Americans for the most part aren’t ideological. They don’t vote based on who has conservative or liberal principles. Well, the voters that are up for grabs (the non-ideologues, the swing voters) don’t. They vote on who can fix what they perceive as the government needing to fix.
The problem with conservatives is that acknowledging the problems that Americans want fixed requires acknowledging where conservatives made mistakes and oversights in the past 8 years. Healthcare reform would be one, Immigration reform would be another. The economy is another one. Self reflection isn’t easy for most people.
Best example of this is when Bush took a big loss in congress in 2006 and then went a different direction on Iraq. He didn’t go the direction the media and democrats wanted him to, BUT, the loss forced him to reflect on his policies, acknowledge that the american people didn’t like the way Iraq was going, and so he came up with a solution. By 2008 in the wake of the surge, Iraq was barely an issue. The GOP still took big losses, but it wasn’t because of the war this time (it was because the economy was in recession).
Just wait genius till all this FREE money can no longer be stuffed down the Chinese peoples throats and the tax payers have to give up 60% of everything they work for! But then again some of the American people it would be a raise!
Jeremy, you’re young. So, I’ll just thank you for your sincere efforts and thoughts.
But, when you write:
“Conservatism’s real quandary lies in the fact that it cannot be effectively communicated in a Moveon-esque, 20-second sound clip — a medium that my Pavlovian generation flocks to without a critical thought. Liberalism is an ideology of emotion and false hope: a deadly combination. Conservatism takes some thought and deductive reasoning: a deadly knell.”
All I can say is RUBBISH!!!
Yes, yes, there is truth to the oft-stated “feeling vs. reason” thing.
Buuuuut, TRY SELLING CONSERVATISM AS FUN.
No, I’m not kidding. See:
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/lscott/2009/05/06/conservatives-need-to-fire-the-marketing-department/
Scr*w “reason.” That will get you as many votes as a doctoral treatise on brain surgery (apologies to all those fine surgeons out there, but I trust you get my point…).
Try instead the two sides of the conservative coin: FREEDOM / PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS
Left unchecked, the tax burdens of the Democrats, will create serfs to the Federal Government out of our children and their children. IN CONTRAST, “the pursuit of happiness” has an appeal – both historically AND (yee gads!) “commercially.”
“Conservatives can’t continue to play Scrooge when the liberals play Santa Claus”. That’s how the Libs got voted in. You can’t out Dem. a Dem.
It’t like if you want a rolex and you have the money for it, you buy the rolex.Why buy a cheap knock off of the rolex when you can have the real thing? It makes no sense. http://anti-msm-news.blogspot.com/
So conservatives need to loosen up their death grip on the old fashioned stuff in order to better appeal to the election winning bleeding heart liberals.
From beginning to end this article spins it’s wheels with ten dollar words about a nation overrun with liberal Democrats but, there is no (or little) mention about the 50+ million voters that are begging for strong character and traditional strength coming forth with eloquence from our youth.
Mr. Marks has a long way to go before he can justifiably claim that he is a conservative.
As a conservative with an engineering background, I state the problem of health care to my liberal family members and friends as “if liberals are so concerned about the 40M (+ or -) people who they claim do not have health insurance, why not just provide coverage for those 40M and not force the rest of the population into a government solution when they already have coverage? Their answer – “none, just blank stares” like that thought had never occurred to them.
Why do conservatives try to answer straw men ideas when they are bogus to begin with? Continue to speak plain truth. Restate them in terms of logic, common sense, history. We need to teach because the public at large has been dumbed down to where they don’t know any better.
Fairness Doctrine – why aren’t conservatives suing the media for lack of equal time? Why aren’t republican legislators going after the MSM for just what the libs accuse the right of doing? While they want the public to believe conservative radio is bad, they are actually guilty of real fraud and irresponsible, biased reporting. So much of what the left does can be turned right back on them. But then we would be doing what they do and we can’t do that. Oh no, we are above all that. We are better than that. What republicans don’t see is that the public square has moved from the dining room into the dark alleyway next door and we are getting our butts handed to us. They bring brass knuckles, clubs and switch blades to the fight, we come with our ties around our necks, napkins in our belts and our shoe laces tied together. We should be doing our best to destroy Axelrod, Rahm, Ayers, Wright, et.al. We may not be able to win but we can do our best to leave the enemy bloodied and worried to take the next step. Why, because they will know there is a price to be paid.
“The One” acts with impunity, like a thug from the streets of Chicago. He is not a King. He also is not following the law. Why can’t legal action be taken to hold him to account? Apply pressure, keep it up, never let up. Our future depends on it.
Personally, I think the real problem for conservatism is the very core nature of conservatism.
By nature, conservatives hate talking about conservatism. Not out of a lack of faith, but rather, because conservatives prefer to be doing something rather than talking about doing something and tend to somewhat embarrassed by being recognized for it. During the Bush years, America and Americans donated more money to charity than the rest of the world COMBINED, yet Conservatives let the Left paint America as greedy. Bush did more for Africa than anyone, yet the Left declared, unchallenged, that “[he] hated black people.” All because we were too embarrassed at the thought of being recognized for our good deeds that we didn’t put up much of a fight about it. We are the guy that blushes in embarrassment when a bell ringer catches him putting money his pot and thanks him for it, when he would rather go unnoticed.
That’s why the “Tea Parties” are such a big deal, because Conservative normally don’t WANT to stand up and be recognized. One needs only look at the number of conservative talking heads vs. liberal ones to see that. Liberal pundits and columnists are a dime a dozen, but conservative ones are fairly rare. The Left will always have an advantage because that attitude is a core part of what makes a conservative a conservative.
They are exceptions to that rule, but again they are rare. Lacking a strong leader to draw them out, most conservatives would be perfectly happy being the “silent majority.” Until that changes, the Left will continue get away with their post-modernisms and false “truths” because conservative simply won’t call them on it.
Note to Jeremy and others who share his views: you/we need to get good at the 20-second sound bite. Perhaps some will emerge from the TEA parties on July 4.
I have voted for more Democratic presidential candidates than Republicans. At this time, I find my centrist self alarmed by this President’s agenda and rooting for the R-team.
I don’t believe equal outcomes can be mandated, I believe in equal opportunity. I believe in America’s exceptionalism. It may be the case that some of BHO’s ideas need to play out a bit longer for people to see the impact.
While I’m thinking about the R-team and where you have lost me through the years, here are some reasons. I’m not a culture warrior on either side and here is where you can save yourself some of my antipathy. I am tired of men talking at me about reproductive rights, or their preferred limits. Instead, please spend more time talking about fathers and their important role in the family. Since the Dems have elected the ultimate example of the “me generation”, the Repubs can offer many examples of people contributing to the greater good by knowing it is not all about them.
Lastly, the businesses in our country are under attack from a Pres whom I’m convinced has never had even one econ course. Why does no one want to work at Treasury? Not the reason given–lobbyist ties–but because they know the ideas are so LOUSY. Some business should be held to a higher standard and have some ‘splaining to do. Others need to be heard, what are their ideas about how to fix the mess we are in? Let’s get to some solutions, folks, and stop the focus on redistribution alone.
Conservatives are the only adults in the room. They are compelled to persuade childishly immature adults to grow up. The shallow and poorly read Barack Obama, on the other hand, is in the enviable position of telling them that there are no negative consequences for their misbehavior. Of course, they prefer to listen to their enabler. I long ago realized that the Democrats essentially con large number voters into believing that all the “free stuff” can be paid for simply by raising Bill Gate’s taxes a few dollar more. Sadly, I was not indulging in hyperbole! I was dead serious. We must never forget that a very high percentage of Democratic Party voters are marginally to functionally illiterate. Their candidates rely on voters who cannot read the sports section of the local newspaper. Such individuals are easily manipulated by propaganda. Also, the typical liberal arts college graduate is a pseudoeducated idiot. Their degree is usually phonier than a three-dollar bill—but unfortunately they are convinced of their alleged intellectual superiority. Do we have enough adults to save the country? I suspect the odds are only slightly better than 50/50.
Just become a dem, Jeremy.
Okay. You’ve made the argument in the abstract. Now translate it in short words and short sentences into the argument to the people.
If conservatives redefine the political argument by proposing the optimum of prosperity and independence, which is the antithesis of a liberal doctrinaire desire for government-enforced equality via social engineering, then conservatism will have a fighter’s chance. By effectively redefining the goals of the American political process, a conservative will be simultaneously freed from the shackles of arguing against liberal “truths” and empowered to advance proven mechanisms for national prosperity and security.
This is bafflegab. What on earth are you trying to say. Obama’s socialism will work or it won’t. If it works his reelection is guaranteed. If it doesn’t work – and it won’t – the public will look for leadership to those who warned that it wouldn’t work.
This week Obama’s strong armed Chrysler’s secured creditors (by threatening to use the power of the Presidency to destroy them) to give up their contractual rights so that Obama could give more of the Chrysler carcass to his UAW supporters. This conduct – which subverts the rule of law and ought to have caused an uproar – will stifle investment and reduce the chances of an economic revovery.
The message conservatives need to convey is that Obama’s thuggish policies are not only unAmerican they are destroying America.
And if you don’t believe that you really aren’t a conservative.
My first year of college, in the early 1990′s, I took a philosophy course entitled “Socialism vs. Capitalism”. My undergraduate school was one of the top-rated in the country and had a reputation as being one of the most liberal as well. I say that primarily to say that it could logically be deduced from those two facts that the students there who favored the “socialism” side of that equation were among the most eloquent defenders of that position.
Anyway, one student really got into defending his socialist stance and the professor gave it right back to him from the capitalism side, primarily focus on “liberty” as the trump card in the argument. Finally, the socialist student could take no more and said “F*ck liberty!”.
One could argue that this was the result of a 20-year old kid going against a philosophy professor who had years and years of training, but, really, the kid knew all of the socialist arguments and said all of the same things that a much older socialist would have said, he just didn’t value “liberty” and he couldn’t come up with something equally compelling for his own position. There you have the “best and the brightest’s” defense of liberalism.
“Free stuff” is NEVER free. It is paid for in taxes, taxes, & more taxes; as a result, the GDP shrinks & the federal government gets even less money into their hungry coffers.
Jeremy, you need to stop yourself & listen. You sound like Meghan McCain, John McCain, Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, & Olympia Snowe. In other words, you sound just like a Democrat-lite.
Your ideas is a road to ruin for the Republican Party. Why vote for Democratic-lite when the real thing exists? This is a large reason why maverick RINO, John McCain lost. He bashed Conservatives more than he criticized the Senator Obama. What did it get him? Well, John McCain remains Senator McCain.
“Disregarding Obama’s free pass from the press…” How? Ignore the free pass at your own peril. A free press could put an end to the free pass over time. An ideologically conservative dominated press could put an end to it overnight. I appreciate your argument in regards to liberal euphemisms, and while I find it to be true, it is really the ability to get that message to the people without criticism or an opposing point of view that renders the euphemism so effective and politically successful – not the lack of the public’s ability to understand more difficult concepts (assuming that conservative ideas are more difficult).
Conservative ideas are just as powerful as liberal ones in the marketplace. Capitalism is getting a black eye based on propagandized news reporting – not its appeal to prosperity and freedom. You understand conservative concepts – why assume that others are not able to understand conservative ideas and proposals. Looking down your nose at the unwashed masses and ignoring the arrogance and effectiveness of the democratic media cabal is a formula for a perfect storm, one of which we are now living through the aftermath. Sara Palin’s message was understood, but the free pass press started a drumbeat against that message (and her)overnight and effectively helped stunt its fruition – the McCain campaign completed the task with some good old watering down. John McCain did’t require any help to loose, but Barack Obama needed alot of help to win and to currently maintain his popularity. Barack was the recipient of the marching band’s parade down Media Street. The spectators joined in along the way and marched merrily on to the White House.
Americans would not vote for health entitlement advocators if the euphamism wasn’t being used by the press to shout down free market and limited government solutions. Americans can bite the bullet, but are now being encouraged to spit the bullet out and enter the government promised land by the main stream media. it is a little more complex to include that factor into your argument.
If I may be permitted a second comment, let me quote Winston Churchill: “Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are best of all.” Fourteen words, fourteen syllables!
Best example of this is when Bush took a big loss in congress in 2006 and then went a different direction on Iraq. He didn’t go the direction the media and democrats wanted him to, BUT, the loss forced him to reflect on his policies, acknowledge that the american people didn’t like the way Iraq was going, and so he came up with a solution.
Wrong. The Surge wouldn’t have worked without the Anbar Awakening and the build-up of Iraqi forces.
Universal government run single tier health care is coming and The GOP can’t stop it. Obama says it will reduce the costs of health care. It won’t.
The only way to control the cost of “free health care” is through rationing. American’s will get a system that costs more and doesn’t provide the same level of service to 280 million of 320 million as the current system.
The implementation of Obamacare will be a boon to the political fortunes of the GOP as it removes one of the enticing planks in the Democratic Platform while demonstrating, after implementation, just how wrong it was.
The cost of an Obama Presidency is going to be very high indeed but the credibility of those who predicted the coming debacle will be even higher.
To add to Terry Gain:
California decided to reduce the wages of their unionized employees in a plan to deal with their financial mess. boobama joined in by threatening to not give stimulus money unless California restored the wages.
“The argument that an economically unsustainable entitlement program subsidizing the Baby Boom generation — and which will inevitably contribute to the peril of the U.S.’s economic might — could be easily replaced with personal retirement accounts yielding vastly higher returns is more difficult for the proponent to argue and the listener to conceptualize.”
Most people just lost up to 40% of the value of their IRA’s with the market crash. Yours is not a good argument.
TO: Jeremy Marks, et al.
RE: Grow Up
There IS NO “Santa Claus”. Someone HAS to PAY.
Three guesses as to who’s going to pay for this nightmare.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Have you heard about the dyslexic devil-worshipper who sold his soul to Santa?]
P.S. How apropos……I’d say there are a LOT of those around. And over half of the people who voted last November chose ‘santa’…..but they’re finding out the hard way, the error…..
Pick one huge issue – energy – and use it for everything. Energy is life. Cheap energy is prosperity. Don’t pay more for electricity than your mortage. Cheaper food means having cheaper energy. Health care is affordable if there is cheap energy and prosperity.
Is that less than 20 seconds?
News Flash! Both Santa Claus and Scrooge are fictional characters. That means they are not real. That makes using them in a real world analogy lame. VERY lame.
The hard cold fact is that there isn’t any measurable difference between the two parties. Out of the 535 members of Congress, about 525 of them are outright thieves and 500 are ‘tax and spend’ liberals. One party does a better job of lying to the voters, which is why it’s in power.
Eventually the voters will figure out they are being lied to (hint, their lips are moving. this is a sure clue that a politician is lying to you) and vote for the other party, then a different set of crooks will be in power.
Different only in name and the lies they tell.
Venividivici,
Wow, did the socialist student even understand what liberty is? Do any of the liberals who are cheering for socialism?
I don’t understand someone’s desire to give up their freedom.
how does one prove the (seemingly self-evident) truth that universal health care for 300 million individuals is impossible to economically sustain without massive tax increases on the middle class and medical care rationing?
Just tell them universal health care kill polar bears if you want to abandon logic.
Also, that approval rating isn’t very different from any other President’s 100 day mark. All of the ratings are within the margin of error of each other. As a predictor of future performance, it is worthless. Here is a snippet from an article on that topic;
“The bar is 65. That’s the average 100-day approval rating for the ten presidents between 1953 and 2009. Obama will likely be narrowly underachieving when the milestone comes to pass, perhaps earning 63 percent. That would place Obama between Richard Nixon and Jimmy Carter in the public’s view.”
From here;
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/04/23/obama_nears_100_average_approval__ultra-polarizing___96141.html
Notice that the Usurper is a very polarizing figure. Most of that is because he IS NOT a natural born American citizen and as such only meets two of the three criteria need to be a legitimate President. If he had given permission to allow public access to his birth certificate instead of trying to pass off a forgery, then he would have the grudging support of the right. Only the Usurper couldn’t give that permission because THERE IS NO BIRTH CERTIFICATE. As all the witnesses say, he was born in Kenya.
The problem with tea leaves is you see what you want in them. Changing your pipe contents just makes the colors brighter. You want to see America’s first socialist dictator be successful. So you think that the first 100 days poll means something beyond the Usurper being almost middle of the pack. I see that he ranks between Nixon and Carter and we know how they turned out. Or at least I do, I’m not so sure about you.
As long as there is virtually universal condemnation of there being more to
it than men and women, when it comes to the differences that exist between men and women (for example) – rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic is about as efficient as it gets when it comes to changes in the political arena.
“Anyway, one student really got into defending his socialist stance and the professor gave it right back to him from the capitalism side, primarily focus on “liberty” as the trump card in the argument. Finally, the socialist student could take no more and said “F*ck liberty!”.”
Those two words are the summary of everything the Left, Democrats and their related Socialists have been doing over the years. Why work and pay hard cash for the cow when you can get the milk and the meat for “free”? Why pay for your own health care when Santa Government can pay it for you? Etc. “Liberty”? Too hard to work for, too hard to maintain. Screw it!
That’s the argument, in words that even a high school dropout can comprehend.
Here are the words of wisdom from Benjamin Franklin, as timeless and easily understandable as they have ever been:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
And my personal favorite, for all Obamaphiles out there:
He that lives upon hope will die fasting.
Conservatives can’t continue to play Democrat-lite when the Democrats are playing Karl Marx.
And neither party can continue to play Santa Claus when the country’s facing an economic downturn. Sooner or later, the hardworking “elves” (the American taxpayer) just aren’t going to be able to produce anymore.
27. Ms. Attitude:
Venividivici,
Wow, did the socialist student even understand what liberty is? Do any of the liberals who are cheering for socialism?
I don’t understand someone’s desire to give up their freedom.
The student’s argument boiled down to the fact that when people are given liberty, they make choices that are “unfair” in the eyes of the socialist. For example, instead of subsidizing someone’s health insurance, I buy myself a car or a TV or I take a trip around the world. This is the “philosopher-king” argument, where the enlightened despot takes away liberty “for the good of society as a whole”.
Another socialist argument against liberty is that is it illusory and that the choices we think we make of our own volition are actually implanted in us by malefactors who want our money. The socialist wants to force us to confront the illusory nature of liberty and in doing so recognize that the most “authentic” type of organization for society would be something along the lines of a kibbutz, if only those advertisers wouldn’t convince us to compete with each other. This is the “false consciousness” argument.
The third major strand of socialist argument against liberty is that it is meaningless for some because they don’t have any way of providing for themselves the necessities of life like food and shelter. Until everyone’s needs in those areas are met, liberty must be curtailed. This is the “no one is free while others are oppressed” argument.
None of them stand up to serious scrutiny, as became clear over the course of even that one-semester course. But, for the Left that doesn’t matter because they are not serious thinkers, they are political agitators.
I think one of the main reasons people on the Left are willing to give up their liberty is because in a socialistically-inclined US their status and income would be higher than it is now, where their compensation in a free market context is limited by their inability to do anything that actually provides social value. A guy like Barney Frank could never become a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, but in politics he can tell Fortune 500 CEOs what to do. There are literally millions of leftists who are in the same situation. The contradiction between their rhetoric of “for the good of the people” and their self-interested and rent-seeking behavior is either lost on them or buried under self-deception.
As for the left’s “clients” who give up their freedom for some scraps left over after the “philosopher-kings” take their cut, they are just more of the sad and pathetic “masses” who’ve existed namelessly and facelessly since the beginning of time. I don’t blame them for giving up their liberty because they have no understand of its value to begin with and so they sell their birthright for a “mess of pottage”.
Honestly son, you can’t be a “staunch conservative” and write this type of article. Wishy-washy maybe, but not “staunch”. Your problem, and that of many of the “y’ers” is that you are ignorant. You came to political awareness during Clinton, a president who rode the wave of economic growth on Regan’s policies and the beginning of the world’s technological growth. You didn’t experience Kennedy and his tax cuts, LBJ and his saddling of America with his “war on poverty”, and, especially Carter and his disastrous foreign and monetary policies. America is simply at a point where they need to be reminded. And, we will be. In ways you can’t imagine. We have just begun to see the reduction in company output. There is much more to come. States are just realizing how much their revenues are going to drop. I full expect to see the Carter years of high inflation (printing money will be the only way to support Obama’s budget), high interest rates (for my house bought in August of 1980 my rate was 13%) and high gas prices ( we went from $.50 to $1.50 in just a few months). Obama’s ignorance and quasi-Marxist tendencies guarantee a repeat of this folly and then some.
Conservatives have a responsibility to be responsible. To fight this direction tooth and nail. And, to educate people like you that it does no good to slide a little left to make people happy. The overall welfare of the country is too important for compromise on basic conservative principals.
The better straw man would be Robin Hood v.s. the Sheriff. As long as we, as a culture, view Robin Hood as anything but a thief and a bandit, the argument is lost.
The absurdity of this past election is that the Sheriff campaigned for the Hood.
Now here is the Lefty brain at work in service to America: #23 “Most people just lost up to 40% of the value of their IRA’s with the market crash. Yours is not a good argument.”
This is absurd. Alston assumes everybody bought at the last high and sold at the last low. I have been in mutual funds since 1996 and an IRA since the 80s. Even with taking bucks out of my taxable account, to pay cash for a car, for example, my overall gain as of today is about 78%. And, I am no investment genius. I am mostly in indexed stock funds and indexed bond funds. Therefore, by definition, my returns are average.
Alston is not smart and doesn’t understand investing at all OR Alston is a propagandist. I report. You decide.
You under-estimate the average American’s ability to see through the BS and their disdain for political solutions in general. Obama won through his overwhelming charisma and due to a lifeless Republican party that had lost its way while spending all its political capital on the wars.
Communicating that government healthcare is a bad idea is easy by the way. First, stop calling it ‘universal’. That’s liberal marketing – don’t perpetuate it. Second start running commercials showing the local DMV’s of various cities. Real-life footage would be preferable. Then with a little CGI magic transform the shot into sick people waiting for healthcare. Simple. Scary. Accurate.
There is much more to come. States are just realizing how much their revenues are going to drop. I full expect to see the Carter years of high inflation (printing money will be the only way to support Obama’s budget), high interest rates (for my house bought in August of 1980 my rate was 13%) and high gas prices ( we went from $.50 to $1.50 in just a few months). Obama’s ignorance and quasi-Marxist tendencies guarantee a repeat of this folly and then some.
My variable rate business loan reached 28% in 1983. Obama is a know-nothing punk.
There is nothing false about hope.
The GOP at large has been corrupted by pragmatic quasi-conservatives, aka men with no firm grip on or dedication to principles. Two things need to happen; 1)Denounce the Dem’s and their own RINO policies from a MORAL stand point, and 2) Embrace fully the principles of individual rights, laissez-faire capitalism, and rational self interest. If they do not embrace these values, then they will never succeed, because they will never be able to truly acknowledge the greatness and necessity of liberty that is ESSENTIAL for man’s happiness and survival.
As an independent lib, I can tell you that David Thomson is right. That “Democrats essentially con large number voters into believing that all the “free stuff” can be paid for simply by raising Bill Gate’s taxes a few dollar more”…
there is no way conservatives or common sense libs like the blue dogs et al can challenge the idea of free stuff (or stolen stuff, as the assumption that the rich is going to pay for everyone else) to the American public
Now I’ll admit I’d LUVS me some cheap/free health care: I have TWO chronic ailments that always lead me to fight for health insurance, and I’ve been equally uninsured, undersinsured, and insured. But I know it’s not a free lunch. I’ve read about TennCare, Canada, UK and Sweden. I know from city health what “free” health looks like. America’s in for a heck of an awakening to find what their increased tax dollars will get them.
The problem is neither side really wants a compromise. W’s compromise over Medicare Part D actually came out of fear of losing the senior vote to the Dems when they started braying about free drugs for seniors. What I think we need is more block grants for some state based basic fee-for-service health care facilities (they may be crappy, but if we get more of them, maybe the crap could be less…crappy) and recind some the regulations that cause problems for private healthcare in exchange for some expanded benefits. Either way it won’t be perfect.
and here’s an article that busts the balloon over Sweden’s dreamy health care: http://www.jpands.org/vol13no1/larson.pdf
20 seconds huh? Liberals want to make smoking, drinking, eating red meat, fried foods, and gasoline more expensive. Liberals want to dictate what quality of TP you can use, and every other aspect of your life. Soon, they’ll tell you what job to get, and how big your entertainment center can be. Don’t be a conformist. Vote for Conservatives.
I think that’s less than 20 seconds.
No, but hope is often stupid. Or are you still waiting for the Great Pumpkin?
I regularly discuss political philosophy with my high students and typically ask them the following questions:
1) How would you feel if I gave everyone a 70% for the semester?
2) What percentage of your money are you willing to give to the government?
3) Whom do you trust with your money, a politician or you?
4) How will we pay for all of these entitlement programs and how will this affect you?
5) What’s a better system, democracy/capitalism or socialism? Why?
6) Is America a good country or bad?
7) What would happen if America did not intervene in world affairs?
8) Can we let every person in the world into America and where do we draw the line?
9) When does life start?
Nearly 100% think in conservative terms. Keep it simple and the people understand.
The propagation of conservatism is not a marketing problem. Children can get it, if you practice elementary discipline with them. The love of liberty will come naturally to those who have learned the pleasure of effort. Liberty will be an abstraction if you keep trying to be popular by opening the cookie jar for them. What’s the value of effort if the reward comes first?
That does not mean that the arguments need be humorless. Look at the work of AlphonZo Rachel. He is brilliant. He reminds me of a good math teacher, who was effective because he knew how to convey the fun in math, of which there is plenty, contrary to the myth. He was not the typical “educator” who sounds like “Oh boy, they asked me to teach you math, so here we go!”. The kids immediately get the idea “I know you are not going to like it, because I sure don’t”.
The liberals get their mileage by appealing to the worst instincts. The law of gravity is their method of propulsion. It works only because there is so much momentum on the way down, not because their arguments are valid! They did not invent this method, it has been used before!
They can be defeated only by appealing to the best in us, which is a lot more difficult, but has also been accomplished before. The tea partiers represent those who believe it can be done again, and they know it won’t be done by trying to beat the liberals at their game. I feel that Jeremy Marks, the author of this article, has gotten the main point right, it’s a war, and a war of ideas! I trust there is a microphone for him somewhere at a tea party.
to: 43. Self-hating Boomer,
There is nothing stupid about hope. It does infuriate those who are cynical though, but it shouldn’t…go with God my brother.
56% of Generation X voted for Obonga. 68% of Generation Y voted for Obonga. My generation, the Boomers – the ones who remember the Seventies and Jimmy Carter – went 52% for McCain (unenthusiastically, at that). The difference between the generations can be explained by two things. First, we lived through a time when a somewhat less ambitious project by the Left ended up in disaster, in the economy and in foreign policy. Sure, I was a young Leftist intellectual in those days and it wasn’t until 1987 when I finally became convinced of the error of collectivist thinking. But most of those in my generation’s cohort voted for Reagan in 1980 and 1984. For the record, I did not hate Ronald Reagan and did not conduct myself in a spiteful manner during his years in office. I listened and I learned, parallel to my own theoretical investigations into aspects of utopian/collectivist thought. Today’s young radicals in this country, during the past eight years, have conducted themselves in a vile manner towards President Bush and his Party. True animal and totalitarian spirits have been set loose upon society by academics and the teachers’ unions.
The second point of difference between the generations has to do with how we were educated. By the time I was a high school freshman I knew more about American history and the multitude of its themes and accomplishments than most college grads do today. Their “social studies” – and I’ve seen the textbooks – is a potpourri of victimology and grievance. And let me set these young whippersnappers straight: I did not need to be pounded by endless memes of victimology to understand that slavery and later Jim Crowe were sinful. I did not need a lesson of feminist memes to know and understand that women should be equal before the law with men. And it was never in my bones to persecute and hound gay people. I understand that strange shit happens in creation, and I don’t want to deny them the privacy of their relationships, since I value the privacy of my relationship with my wife. The one thing I will not yield to, however, on their agenda is gay marriage. Civil partnerships/contracts are there for them and I would never begrudge them that. But marriage has traditional aspects to it that have stood the test of time. Only when we contaminate that institution with “innovations” do we cause problems. And children are the victims of this.
Honestly, I think the only thing that can get through to these kids is the same hard experience we had during the Seventies. I’ve watched and listened to the kids. I’m a father of two teenage girls (they are conservative), but I listen to the kids older than them in high school and the college crowd too. They believe right to their bones that they have the right ideas for what American society should be. Most of them smirk at and deride the wisdom of old farts like me. But life is about to b**ch slap them really hard and that’s the only thing that’s going to shake these true believers.
Forget about the Marxists/”progressives” my age and older. Those people are never going to change. Neither intellectual pursuit nor life experience have made or will make a dent in their worldview.
http://x85.xanga.com/55ef357767233238309318/z188424521.jpg
Caption:
“Class of ’08 twenty year reunion:
Liberal Arts Major…unemployed…living in parents’ basement…Yes, We Did…Thank you, Obama!”
#44 should read
8)Can we let every person in the world into America and where do we draw the line?
http://www.shoppingblog.com/pics/interfaithgown.gif
Miss California, 2012.
Hoped4Change?
Say “Thanks Obama!”
http://www.jtruck.net/misc/4x4cars/full/4x4yugo.jpg
The 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Hoped4Change?
“Thanks Obama!”
“Conservatives can’t continue to play Scrooge when the liberals play Santa Claus.”
Yes we can and we must. It would have been helpful if the graft-ridden GOP hadn’t excused so many from paying income taxes as part of their tax cut program: but then the GOP never stopped to deal with the obvious–the more people excused from paying taxes, the more liberal they will be with taxes they don’t pay.
The GOP will have to –for now–remind those that vote and those with children what it means to spend more than you make. And how a lot of it is spent now makes no sense and is wasteful.
True, that means actually holding to a principle instead of jettisoning it when its not immediately convenient. But when the effects of the Obama spending come home, the voters will be looking for the adult that warned them. Hopefully, they’ll find one.
#48 Bilgeman, LMAO!!!
That picture was perfect. Wonder what he’ll look like in 20 more years?
Poopus Poopi Poopium ….. this is all horse manure. I am so sick of neophyte apologists trying to water down the conservative position and response to this temporal setback. We don’t need any more “help” if this is what to amounts to.
I do like your column, sir.
Some of the posters don’t see that you are discussing a very important (or decisive) problem of perception.
I hear people talking and they talk EXACTLY in the terms you try to discuss, they see themselves as the POOR who will be HELPED by Obavez.
It’s perfectly useless to answer that they are brainwashed, that the MSM fills their hears with lies, etc. etc.
We need to CONVINCE them WITH FACTS (i.e., serious political proposals) that our ideas imply better solutions. We KNOW that but many many people don’t.
We need leaders who can SPEAK.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
46, Indeed. Go with me. I am the way and the light. Now can somebody give me a light?
#54:
Oh that’s a big help! Is “neophyte apologists” a term you developed on your own? Did it take you a few days, or did it just coe out with the rest of that tsterile comment? Don’t you mean “perennial apologists?” In other words, people who are not neophytes at apologizing? Is english your second or third language?
While we’re at it, what is the “conservative positon” you think is being watered down? Fiscal conservatism? I thought raising taxes to cover deficits was conservative? Yes? No? Do you have a clue? Do you know what a deficit is?
“Temporal setback?” As opposed to what–a metaphysical one?
Are you home schooled by Chuck Pelto? Does fred tutor you? Get a grip: better yet, get a book.
I think that liberal “issues” are based on fantasy. They dream them up in the bowels of the DNC and then sell them. Global warmiong is a perefect example. They push that in spite of the research results. Beat it by proving that they are wrong, realizing that they win support by repetitive propaganda slogans. They set out early to drive home a mantra of a bad economy. After 2 years of negative messaging a growing economy suddenly took a dive pushed by Shumer’s warning. Now they have the job of fixing what they broke. State run health care systems date back to Bismark and the 1900′s. We have beat back the idea for over a hundred years, and we still can. We have not only theoretical objectionssss but experience. Many Europ;ean systems are being revised to meet reality. We have to take the gloves off, though. You cannot beat propaganda with gentile debate. We will not stop the thugocracy in the WH with timid words.
Jeremy makes a good point about the difficulty with ‘selling’ conservative policies due to them being biased to yield benefits in the long term. Similarly, failed Democrat policies are not usually evident in the short-term (eg. Community Reinvestment Act).
In the short term, Obama’s Universal health care plan will not look like it is failing to the majority of people. In the short term there will still be a large number of qualified doctors and modern equipment, and the health care industry will not adjust overnight. Ten years from now when we begin to see the consequences of Obama’s health care reform there will be plenty of opportunity to blame any involvement from Republicans.
However, I tend to agree with Myno @ 3 and Stephen @ 18. The answer is not to win cheap victories by emulating liberals or changing policies. You need to at least extend credit to others that they can be convinced just as you are.
#44 – mshatto: That is an excellent post. BTW, is that approved curriculum?
Progressivism failed under Wilson, Roosevelt, Johnson and Carter.
It takes patience for the Conservatives because the ears of the liberals are filled with entitlements.
Progressivism won’t work. You have to give Obama enough rope to hang himself. In the meantime, the Conservatives must continue to expound the only message that has worked since our Founding.
We will again have our day.
Don’t loose heart. We have history on our side.
Prof @45 – re. teaching children – that reminds me of one of those wonderful “teaching moments” I had when my son was just entering grade school. The school had requested the children bring their own coloured pencils; so I went to the art store to buy some low grade kid stuff. But he asked for the much higher quality ones (I’m a part-time artist, and even by then he knew the difference in how things handled). So I said ok, as long as he promised to care for them, and not treat them like toys, to which agreed.
To make a long story short, on the day the kids had to bring their pencils to school, the teacher collected them all, and dumped them into a large box for all the kids to share. He came home in tears. My response was just “Welcome to socialism”. After a little explaining & cheering up, we headed out to buy some more – but needless to say nothing more of value to him was ever brought into the school system. At 19 now and independent, living his life exactly how he said he would since 9th grade, he’s probably one of the most John Galt people I know….
I think one of the core tasks for conservatives now is to start taking on that teaching experience. The task isn’t 20 second sound byte salesmanship (as much as that may help), it’s demonstrating in big and little ways that individual liberty (and not shying from the risks and responsibilities that entails) is fundamental to living a life of value.
I HOPE that my bike is in the basement of the Alamo. But I think we all know how that’s going to turn out.
Hope-a-dope me once, shame on you…
People still think that conservatives practice founding principles.
Nothing could be further from reality.
TO: Sonny, et al.
RE: Rope Tricks
On the other hand, if he gets enough rope, he may do the trick that Lenin did with the kulaks in the mid-late 1920s.
You can read up on just who the ‘kulaks’ were back then HERE. But for all intents and purposes, they were the middle-class of Russia before, during, and for a short while AFTER the Bolshevik Revolution and Russian Civil War.
They were the land and business owners of less than ‘corporate’ standing.
And, because they were so involved in keeping their business going, they didn’t have time to join the White Russian Army. And, as the saying goes….for want of a nail….the White Russian Army was defeated by the Red Army and the Bolsheviks gained control of the Russian government.
So….what became of those people who were too busy running their businesses to ‘get involved’?
The article I linked to above touches on it. But THIS ARTICLE goes into much more interesting detail.
Here, I think is the ‘killer’ communication from Lenin himself on how to use good rope….
Additionally, we have Mr. Ayers, a self-confessed socialist terrorist who is Obama’s political science mentor reported as indicating, with a group of others, that it would likely require the death of 25 million Americans who would not willingly accept the ‘New World Order’ they wanted to impose upon US, if they had the chance.
And….guess what happened last January. Three guesses. First two don’t count…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[What ya gonna do? What ya gonna do? What ya gonna do when.....]
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/images/2005/aborted_rowan_full.jpg
Hoped4Choice?
“Thanks, Obama”
(I just felt like posting something that would metaphorically take a tire-iron to someone’s kneecaps.)
TO: burntjohn
RE: Try…..
…not to show your lack of grasp of English so blatantly.
Conservatives—REAL ones—practice founding principles.
The Republican Party hasn’t for the last 20 years.
There’s something of a difference. Don’t you think….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Anybody for a TEA Party?]
http://www.johnmariani.com/archive/2006/060319/soup%20kitchen.jpg
America’s Future
Hoped4Change?
“Thanks, Obama!”
Mr, Marks;
Hey, fella…you gettin’ these messages?
#53 fred:
“That picture was perfect. Wonder what he’ll look like in 20 more years?”
Easy:
http://www.razoo.com/images/share/homeless.jpg
2008 Democratic Voter enjoying his Pelosi Pension Plan.
SpareSomeChange?
“Thanks, Obama!”
http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF1903/Cuadros/Cuadros05.jpg
American Upper Middle Class ca. 2018
Hoped4Change?
“Thanks, Obama!”
For a 27-year-old staunch conservative, you sure make some pretty blanket statements, Jeremy.
For instance: “Liberalism is an ideology of emotion and false hope: a deadly combination. Conservatism takes some thought and deductive reasoning: a deadly knell.”
Maybe in your 4th year of law school, they’ll teach you not to paint with such an overly broad brush.
Although I agree with this:
“The reason lies not with conservatism’s adherence to age-old principles of personal responsibility, traditional morality, and free-market capitalism. Rather, the conservative plight resides in two areas of the current political environment.”
There’s nothing wrong with “personal responsibility, traditional morality, or free-market capitalism,” and you would be surprised that many liberals believe in these things too.
But there is something wrong with “the current political environment,” you know, the one where graceless “conservatives” write fluff like this.
TO: Bilgeman
RE: Item #65
Howl! Howl! Howl!…..
P.S. Recovering….
….I’m confident that God can deal with the murder of the most innocent of us.
Likewise, I’m confident He can deal with those who perpetrated it.
Conservatives should play Scrooge rather than Santa Claus.
The fools who voted for 0bama should remember that Santa’s toys are made by little people in sweat shops.
(How’s that for a sound bite?)
I think it’s clear by these posts that the conservatives have no problems.
P.P.S. Maybe it would be better if you replaced the words “deal with” in my previous item with….
“….take care of….”
And that’s in BOTH instances of where I suspect He’ll focus His oh-so-careful ‘attention’.
P.P.P.S. And for you who perpetrate such heinous crimes….
Be afraid. Be VERY afraid.
But not of me and my sort…..
This oughta be pretty easy for you folks:
Who is the leader of the Republican party and/or the conservative movement?
Now, this requires a real answer – not John Q. Public! or John Galt! or The American Taxpayer! . . . save the corny diversions for each other. I want real-life, genuine human beings (and not some blow-up doll with a big red mouth and a tattoo of Betty Boop on the small of her back, sorry, Bilgepump).
So . . . put forth your very best.
Proud Liberal (#39), Hope is all fine & dandy, but the Liberals will take away the will power to access hope. Hope is nothing without will power. And the parasitic State just sucks all the will power away once it gets big enough.
Liberalism is the triumph of emotion over reason.
-Me
65 Bilgepump . . . And one for you:
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/PageMill_Images/Iraq_injured_dead/dead_children2_Iraq.jpg
Democracy is on the march! Liberating millions of Iraqis! No wonder they love us so.
Jeremy,you’re a little off course,you should read the Constitution and learn what Conservatism is all about.The Republican party is based on conservatism.We have some RINOS We need to weed out.
I’m not sure what everyone is worried about.When the bills come due for the huge spending and giveaway programs of Obama’s, conservative will be back and liberals will be out.It’s a cycle that keeps reapeating
itself.Economist almost all agree this cannot and will not work…it’s doomed to fail. Problem is how much is going to be left to glean….
“There is nothing false about hope.”
#39, you have a lot to learn. Unfortunately, your education will cost the rest of us MUCH MUCH more then it is worth.
I also disagree with the idea that Conservatives need to do something. The Socialists have more then enough rope, now all they have to do is finish making the noose, put it around their neck and jump. The Usurper and his puppet master friends have bought the recession and now own it. They are following the same steps that FDR took to cure the great depression. Steps that just made things worse.
This generation’s socialists haven’t figured out what to do after the public works projects are done and the inflationary effect of printing 3 or 4 times the value of the economy in paper money hits home.
Maybe they will do what FDR did and start a war.
Ooooops! We already have a war. Maybe they will finish that war. One thing about Socialist/Fascist governments, they do know how to give a war.
Lace up your boots, tighten your chin strap and hope your BCH isn’t one of the ones with defective screws.
TO: Herb
RE: Well….
….maybe YOU should ‘teach’ that idea to Obama, et al.
Case in point….
DHS’s idea that anyone who is a REAL christian or a believer in the Bill of Rights, especially the 10th Amendment, is a threat to national security.
This is most ESPECIALLY the case if they are formally trained by the US Military.
Will you do that for me? As a personal favor? Please?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Pot....meet Kettle.....]
TO: All
RE: And the Moral….
…of this story IS….
….WHAT?
Maybe Jeremy doesn’t recall, but as I seem to recall from watching the various DVD versions of this Dickens tale, Scrooge becomes a {HORROR!} Christian. Or at least filled with the Christian spirit on Christmas Day.
So what sort of ‘angle’ should we suspect Jeremy Marks is taking with this?
Did he fail English Lit in college? Or is there something terribly wrong with his ‘logic’? Or maybe there’s something much, much worse at play here?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....and G Alston isn't going to like it. And maybe not Jeremy Marks either.]
TO: Ron
RE: Yeah….
And the conservatives have to clean up the MESS the Democrats create.
Hooooow niiiiiiicccceeee…..[It's a joke about a polite way to say F--- U.....]
And we have the vaunted American pub[l]ic education system to thank for getting US into this mess THIS time.
I think we need to do something about those cretins.
What do YOU think?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....]
Conservatism is the triumph of fear over justice.
- Somebody else
The problem isn’t just that the government has gone to a liberal/leftist/socialist one party system. The problem is that the politicians stopped working for us a while back. They just work for their parties and we try to elect the ones that we benefit from. It is time to rise up and throw the bums out of office. Physically if need be.
Ron,
Problem is that trying to roll back a lot of this junk is going to be nearly impossible. I am as certain that Obamaism will fail as I am that the sun will rise in the East tomorrow, but given that the US is a wealthy country and the slow, grinding degradation of our economic engine will take time as Obamaism steals investment capital from the future to prop up consumption in the present, one could say that it might be difficult to impossible to dislodge Obamaism, once institutionalized, for a generation. It took the Russians nearly 70 years to run down Russia to nothing and it wasn’t nearly as wealthy as the US. Now, things happen faster now and the US is in much more debt than Russia ever was, so 70 years could be a stretch, but it could be 25 years before it all collapses into chaos.
The Left’s attitude toward Obama’s spending reminds me of one of the intros to “Seinfeld”, where Jerry describes people’s behavior at a restaurant before the bill comes. Everyone’s ordering appetizers, main courses, second and third bottles of wine, desserts and after-dinner drinks, etc., with no thought of the bill to come. Then, when the bill comes, the conviviality dies away and buyer’s remorse comes over everyone, as they try to minimize their share of the final tally. Seems like an apt metaphor for what’s to come.
#80 Elmer Fudd, blog-slave:
“And one for you:”
That’s a good one! Is that from last week’s mishap in Afghanistan?
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/PageMill_Images/Iraq_injured_dead/dead_children2_Iraq.jpg
Hey kids!
Hope4Change?
“Thanks, Obama!”
(And thank YOU, freak-boi, for your excellent contribution to the cause!)
87. sheesh:
Conservatism is the triumph of fear over justice.
- Somebody else
May 9, 2009 – 3:37 pm
Yeah, the fear that some bureaucrat is going to act on his false belief that he can spend my money better than I can.
The reason the GOP is in trouble is not tried and true conservatisim. That’s not why we lost the Congress.
The reason we lost is simply the Republican Big Tent RINO leadership with their sellout compromise with the liberal left.
The good news most of the RINO’s lost re-election.
Here’s one for you, blog-slave:
http://msa4.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/abu_ghraib_53.jpg
I call it: “Mattress Sale!”
You will probably call it “Smorgasbord!”
#86 Chuck Pelto:
“I think we need to do something about those cretins.
What do YOU think?”
You didn’t ask me, but in Mr. Marks’ case, perhaps he needs to point out to other students who are seeking educations in fields likely to result in gainful employment that THEY are going to expected to subsidize the dullards partying it up over in the Liberal Arts programs…
…FOR THE REST OF THEIR MISERABLE LIVES.
(caps for emphasis, not shouting).
How ’bout it young Marks?
Think you can get any “traction with that action”?
We need an Elmer Gantry to replace this Huey Long. We also need an educated (non-government run school)electorate.
you cannot consume what has not been produced. This is the essence of conservatism and EVEYONE knows it to be true. The problem is that you cn conume wht others have produced (theft) and the federal reserve routinely does this by debasing the currency by 2% or more every year. The continuously depreciating currency makes saing impossible and steals from everyone. However that game is ending, Yhe coming masive depreciation of the dollar should teach even the most obtuse that ponzi promises ,fiat money and profligate spending have consequences. Neither a government nor it’s central bank can depreciate to prosperity.
To:Chuck
Re:Comment forum English lessons.
CONservitive GovernMENt.
Grasp that.
TO: burntjohn
RE: Heh
Like I was saying….
…but only more so….
…Ya got a problem, buckie.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. And I ‘grasp’ the depth of it, better than you think….
I guess this is a benefit of being old enough to have witnessed the previous death of conservatism, in 1976, its ascension, highlight, and downfall.
Namely, that I was a campus conservative in the 79′s (a REALLY lonely place, I might add), and made the identical argument to Mr. Marks- back then, the California government really was handing out free cars to welfare recipients.
But the argument falls flat because people in the late 70′s DID see thru the freebie consequence-free liberalism, and elected Reagan on the idea that we should be more sefl-sufficient.
Modern conservatism lost its way because it won its arguments- conservative ideas were largely based on the twin pillars of opposition to socialism, and opposition to moral relativism.
When Communism died, traditional liberalism looked a lot less scary. Modern conservatives pine nostalgically for the good old argument between free markets and socialism, mostly because it was the one argument they could win. So they frantically crank up the emergency warning siren, blaring about Obama being a socialist. Which is nonsense, considering his policies are pretty much in line with FDR, Truman and Eisenhower.
Moral relativism, 1970′s style, also died- the biggest moral issues are not gay people clamoring for the right to hump wildly in public- it is gay people clamoring for the right to marry and become Ozzie and Ozzie, Harriet and Harriet.
So conservatives have become oddly like the Left in the late 70′s- slowly retreating into pure ideology, basing their rants on fictional books (Atlas Shrugged) and abstract arguments divorced from the pragmatic realities that American are facing.
If you cherish free markets, consider that the main threat might not be from socialist politicians, but crony bankers and Wall Street interests that are less interested in free market ideology, than manipulating the levers of the public purse to their own benefit. Could there be a conservative argument for forcing the vested interests to adhere to the free market?
If universal healthcare frightens you, consider that preaching the virtues of the free market, and its lack of waiting periods for private healthcare is nonsense to those who get no healthcare, regardless of how long they wait. Could there be a conservative argument for limited healthcare?
If large government spending disturbs you, consider that fixating on a stronger and stronger military, and more and more interventions abroad, only means that the government, by necessity becomes a gargantuan Leviathan, even if it funded nothing else but the military. Could conservatives advocate for a more isolationist approach?
Finally, telling people that the government is not able to do anything anywhere, in any capacity, is seen as foolish to people who are witnessing the private sector implode from corruption and incompetance. Right now, Wall Street investment banks make the DMV look like the very model of efficientcy. It was Bob Dole and Jack Kemp who last made the argument that there is a legitimate role for government in the economy.
Steyn has a pretty good (pretty good by Steyn’s standards; outstanding by anyone else’s) piece on this very question:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YWU3ZmJjODBjMTllNTg2ZTk5MGZiMWU1NTM5ZTMzMjU=
Chuck Pelto @64
You have described the scenario that is archetypical of how the collectivists want to start history with a clean slate. If they cannot extirpate our ideas and our will for liberty, then they must kill us. It is simple as that. I know this to be true, since I have perused volumes of the thinkers from that tradition over many years. Once I began to see that they wanted to take by force what I was hoping could come through the seduction of certain ideals, I began to search if there could be a moral way to reform and reinvent socialist ideas. But I could not find a way this could be done.
The “New Moral Man” that Marx described is V.I. Lenin. Stalin took it to a Superman’s status. Mao was an even more profligate murderer. Ho less so, but he followed in their steps. Fidel had his killers, among them Ernesto “Che” Guevara, whose t-shirts sell quite well these days.
The day is coming when we may be forced to pick up the rifle again in defense of liberty. Because if we do not, we lose it all. And the darkness will be long.
But let that be the last resort, when all else has failed. Those Americans who collaborate with totalitarianism, who back us into a corner, will deserve the just retribution their tyranny merits.
TO: fred
RE: It’s Interesting….
….that Glenn Reynolds seems to be re-visiting his args of 14 years ago vis-a-vis this situation.
He even is kind enough to bring up an article he had printed in the Chicago Trib back then ‘counseling’ against being so prepared.
After reading his links in that item on Instapundit, I sent him an e-mail asking him….
I look forward to reading his response.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Who—besides me—wants to wager that he NEVER responds?
Why? Because if he answers in the affirmative, with a trigger, he’s a self-declared ‘Enemy of the State’. And if he doesn’t answer, he’s, in my honestly held opinion, a gutless wonder who should not be teaching Constitutional law.
The former has serious consequences for him vis-a-vis the state. The latter only has dishonor to his alleged ‘profession’.
Indeed. I think it would be VERY good that his answer would be a thread at PJM addressing that question. A thread in which ALL can participate. [Note: I say that as I can't seem to comment on some particular columnist's threads here. Don't know just why....but there ya go.....]
TO: All
RE: A Non-Response
Glenn just e-mailed me back asking MY ‘professional’ opinion on when revolt is warranted.
Let’s see what he does next, as I’ve counseled him of my comment that should appear ahead of this one, somwhere after item #101.
My comment, which I see as item #102 (awaiting ‘moderation’) has yet to appear in the public venue.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
#77- The answer is Mike Huckabee. I’d wager that the Governor Emeritus will be elected President in a landslide in 2012.
hey sheesh;while myself and others here appreciate you spending such a large part of your life despertly trying to keep us…..amused?still,i musk ask,could you please switch places with one of your idiologicaly prostituting cohorts? we have been satisfied with your performance over all,but alas,desire new”talent”.
i know,i know; we’re not actualy paying for it,but someone is.and i am positive that one of your pseudo-marxist,talking point pimps would interested in knowing that we have grown weary of you and could use something different,maybe a little more substantial?definitely not so thin skinned.is that really too much to ask?
but please,feel free to visit us in the future!if for no other reason,than to remind ourselves to thank g-d every day that we were not born being you.thanks,and best regards.
90. Bilgeman:
Yeah, but there’s a big difference. I don’t like believe we should be doing it, whether it’s Bush or Obama. You’re all for it. After all, what’s a little collateral damage, right? Your moral objections aren’t believable because they’re not consistent. It’s all politics with you. Bush kills innocent babies – oh well. Obama does it and you’re not even willing to say it’s wrong, just more of the same. Don’t try to appropriate the horror of a policy you support. Don’t take my word for it, just wait till the new Abu G photos emerge. I’ll treat them like the barbaric scenes of systemic criminality that goes straight to the top. You’ll look at them like a trip to the porn store. Either step up and stand your ground or sit down and stare at your shoes.
103 . . . Wow, with all the brain power and pilosophical certainty here in Pajamastan, you think ONE person could answer this question:
Who is the leader of the Republicans and/or the conservative movement?
And yet, nobody has the brass to even try to answer it. That is truly pathetic. Who’s the moral center of the party? Who is the visionary? Who can inspire a nation? Who can bring out of the American population the greatness that resides in out potential?
Who?
Stand up and be counted BP3K, Pelto, weeniewidiewici, a thinkingthing, SS the gay Nazi, whyaminotdespised. he fact is, you’re all too embarrassed to be associated with any of them, never mind commit to them, which is the first piece of good judgment I’ve seen. Tell you what, for now just go with Ted Nugent – he;’s figrued out the marketability of right wing nutfoolery. Make him your new Reagan. Meanwhile, keep complaining about mustard or Michelle’s arms, which are clearly more dangerous than any of he spaghetti limbs possessed by this group of candy-ass halflings.
Who is the leader of the Republicans and/or the conservative movement?
Anyone? Anyone? Yeah, done in by all of your own. Wait, I have an idea that just might turn the corner for you, really rally the base and return all thsoe independent and moderate voters to the fold . . . a co-candidacy . . . Brooks AND Dunne.
I see no advantage in responding to my neighbor, on slitting his own throat with a switchblade, by picking up a Sawzall and copying his moves.
“Who is the leader of the Republicans and/or the conservative movement?”
Don’t have one right now. Newt was and maybe Rush, but they are both busy making money by working for it. Politicians can only make money by stealing it.
Conservatives have no figures such as Soros or Dean.
It doesn’t matter. The Democratic program has failed ever time it has been used. FDR, the Wiemar Republic and France in the 30′s as well as the Brits between the wars. ALL used government control of the means of production and distribution to try and fight off a depression. It didn’t work then, it didn’t work when the Japs tried it in the 70′s ( or was it the 80′s?). It won’t work now. When unemployment hits 15% and inflation hits 10, there will be some serious people really upset. The only way the Usurper stays in power is by declaring an emergency and canceling the mid-term elections. THAT is when 100 million Americans take up arms.
If Socialism works this time around (even a blind hog will find an ACORN ever now and then) that is good but there is still Hezebolla with a nuke. Nobody will know if it’s a Paki nuke, Iranian nuke or a gook nuke. Not that it will matter to the few million that die when it goes off.
You wanted change, you got it. Have a nice day!
TO: typos_R_us, et al.
RE: When
That’s an interesting point. Something I’ve been pondering as a possible scenario, albeit not with respect to economic melt-down. More along the lines that Obama and the Democrats ARE up against a deadline with the 2010 election.
If they do have a plan to overthrow the Constitution of the United States, at the rate things are going in the economy, they MUST have it in place BEFORE that election. Because THAT election, if run properly, will see the Democrats out of power in at least one house, if not both houses of Congress and Obama will become nearly toothless.
So what are the indicators to look for.
Glenn Reynolds wrote…..
Well….having graduated from high school BEFORE the vaunted American public education system went into the toilet, I’m familiar with the Declaration of Independence. Probably more so than the likes of sheesh and some others around here.
On the other hand, your comment about canceling the 2010 election seems like a pretty strong indicator, if not an outright ‘trigger’.
The REAL problem is that a good number of those taking up arms will be doing so on behalf of President Obama. And, I suspect that if the recently passed infusion of vast amounts of money into AmeriCorps goes to bringing forth the “Civilian National Security Force” Obama talked about in the run-up to the election, they’ll be “as well funded as the US Military”.
We’ll have to watch for that, as it would be, what I consider to be, a key indicator.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.]
@ post 99
“When Communism died, traditional liberalism looked a lot less scary.”
I agree. Conservatives also shot themselves in the foot by trying to replace the spectre of socialism with western europe. I’m sorry but asking someone if they want to be like Sweden is a world of difference from asking them if they want to be like East Germany. The “europeanization of America” isn’t a scary an image as russian bread lines. Definitely not with the rise of the European Union.
99 ChipD, excellent post, thank you.
I agree with Chuck P, the Dems are up against the deadline of the mid-term elections. bHObama has to get as much of his agenda through before the voters get a chance to respond. It will be interesting to see whether voters go with how they feel about the Prez or what they think of his ideas.
In terms of 2012 and the R-team, Huckabee, Pawlenty, and Jindal already enjoy strong support. Palin may play a role and she proved she can take the heat.
107. sheep
103 . . . Wow, with all the brain power and pilosophical certainty here in Pajamastan, you think ONE person could answer this question:
Who is the leader of the Republicans and/or the conservative movement?
I don’t answer to any man, so the polestar I guide myself by is the Constitution and various philosophical doctrines relating to individual liberty and its role in society. I learned more about life from Nietzsche and Caesar than I have from any American.
#107 asks the musical question: “Who is the leader of the Republicans and/or the conservative movement?”
There is no god-like leader for us. Thinking vs feeling people do not need an all-knowing, charismatic leader. They follow their own drummer and are a collection of true democrats, i.e., believers in democracy and individualism. The fact that all y’all need a cowboy to drive you in a herd to feed says it all. Two-gun Obama. Gun one, hypocrisy. Gun two, an all-pervading belief in his own divinity.
“I’m sorry but asking someone if they want to be like Sweden is a world of difference from asking them if they want to be like East Germany.”
Sweden is a poverty stricken country next to the United States. Our citizens are far more affluent. You need to learn a little bit more about the European Union. Its financial problems are much greater than our own.
#106 sheesh:
“Yeah, but there’s a big difference. I don’t like believe we should be doing it, whether it’s Bush or Obama.”
Did Obama kill those children? Where did your pinko website say that he did?
For that matter, where did they say Bush did?
All you or anyone else KNOWS is that it’s a picture of two children who appear to be dead. Nowhere does it say that those specific children were killed by actions of the US forces under the command of Bush OR Obama. They may very well have been, but then they might have been killed by an A-Q suicide bomber, could they not have?
Or is the death of any child anywhere in the world just automatically blamed on the US military under George Bush?
Those children might not even BE Iraqis.
But now to address your point about morality:
There’s a whole heap of difference between non-combatant children getting killed by accident in a military operation and a child getting hoovered out of its’ “host’s” uterus.
(I cannot call them “mothers’”,especially today, since the avoidance of motherhood is precisely the point of the procedure).
Intent is the difference between manslaughter and murder, and it might behoove you to keep that in mind.
There’s a further difference between us.
I recognize that Iraqi children are human beings, while all too many people deny the humanity of an unborn baby, instead calling it a fetus.
It may comfort you to know that no less than the official Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, recently published an article that uses the “fetus” language vis-a-vis stem-cell research.
The very fact that the Church’s secular organ itself is now using the term is very dismaying to many of us.
“Your moral objections aren’t believable because they’re not consistent.”
And yours are?
“It’s all politics with you.”
Hello, pot.
“Bush kills innocent babies – oh well. Obama does it and you’re not even willing to say it’s wrong, just more of the same.”
Have you ever asked me my position on abortion?
TMK, you haven’t.
Here it is:
I morally object to it, but I recognize that it is sometimes necessary, like causing non-combatant child casualties in warfare.
Since warfare,(arguably), accrues some benefit to the State, it is right and proper for the State to fund it and conduct it. We all benefit from a successful prosecution, and we all suffer from a defeat.
It is done in our name.
And bear in mind too, that collateral damage isn’t personal.
Abortion, otoh, is as personal as it gets. The benefit is accrued, (again, arguably), solely to the woman having one, and the decision is one that she makes alone.
Therefore, she should be the one to fund it.
Like capital punishment, when the further existence of certain people constitutes a threat to us all, the state is justified in deliberately taking their lives, and it does this,again, in our name.
That’s it…keep abortion legal, but do not subsidize it, an unborn baby is no threat to the State, so the State has no business in denying it’s life.
That’s my position.
“Don’t take my word for it, just wait till the new Abu G photos emerge. I’ll treat them like the barbaric scenes of systemic criminality that goes straight to the top.”
Any year, now, right?
We’ve been hearing about these additional Abu Ghraib photos for so long that they’ve attained mythic status.
Maybe they’re so un-outrageous that their release would be anti-climatic, (which would explain why no-one appears to be in any hurry to actually, y’know, release them…if they even exist).
Kind of a bummer for certain “all about the politics” folks if what they’ve built up as “Dachau v. 2.0″ turns out to be just more of none-too-smart bored prison guards having a bit of stupid fun, eh?
My compliments to you for actually coming up with a cogent and serious comment, which is why I have responded in kind.
It seems that my “art” was effective enough to force you out of character.
#102 Chuck Pelto:
“Why? Because if he answers in the affirmative, with a trigger, he’s a self-declared ‘Enemy of the State’.”
I would hope that he’d be smart enough NOT to announce a “trigger”.
Keep the bastards guessing. There’s a trigger out there somewhere, but they’ll only know it after they’ve triggered it.
(One of my specialties was “mechanical ambushes”, and you would NEVER see a trip-wire that I had set.).
“Who is the leader of the Republicans and/or the conservative movement?”
Perhaps no one. Perhaps the conservative movement doesn’t require a dictatorial figure head to tell us all what to think. Perhaps the conservative movement practices a more inclusive brand of ideology.
Kind of hard for you to fathom eh? People thinking for themselves, without Obama doing your thinking for you. A veritable 21st century furherprinzep, eh?
Those hippies don’t know which end of a gun the pot goes in.
TO: Eric Cartman
RE: Yes….
….that’s true. The hippies don’t. But I’m looking forward to seeing what AmeriCorps does with the money Obama just gave them. I’ll be particularly interested in finding out if they’re training a “Civilian National Security Force”. Or if some other organization starts doing that.
They might know a bit more about the use of weapons in the managed application of violence.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Violence never solved anything. -- Genghis Khan]
115. David Thomson:
“I’m sorry but asking someone if they want to be like Sweden is a world of difference from asking them if they want to be like East Germany.”
Sweden is a poverty stricken country next to the United States. Our citizens are far more affluent. You need to learn a little bit more about the European Union. Its financial problems are much greater than our own.
I think the average perception of Sweden, or many of the other countries often cited as models, is based on decades-old information.
Also, the near blackout of information coming out of Sweden on the influx of Muslims and the impact it is having makes it difficult for Americans to understand the combination of fiscal and demographic unsustainability inherent in the European social democratic model. Even if one doesn’t approve of the sensationalistic way in which some nationalist groups in the various European countries report this information, it is difficult to deny that the underlying long-term trends are unfavorable to the ability to sustain a social democratic model beyond the next 40 to 50 years.
If true, that will mean that in the grand scheme of things, social democracy will have proven one of the LEAST durable of governance systems (lasting from the end of WWII to approximately 2050, or just over 100 years), which is precisely the opposite of what its proponents claim. By contrast, even the “anarchy” (social democrats term, not mine) of capitalism has lasted from the 16th century to our own, with gradual accretions of reform to temper the harder edges.
Seriously, any of the leftist tools on this thread want to argue that Sweden, in its present, post-WWII form, will last even as long as the US has to-date? Will the European Union last that long? If not, then why the f*ck even bother holding them up as models?
TO: Bilgeman
RE: Interesting Point…
….That.
The problem is that if the rest of US don’t know what the ‘trigger’ is, how will we know when the line has been crossed?
If you don’t see it coming, you could well be blind-sided. And most of US can only be looking one way at a time.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. -- George Bernard Shaw]
@ 115
Sweden ranks around Japan and Austrailia. Beind the US yes, but that’s besides the point. It’s hard to get anywhere demonizing a 1st world country. Just doesn’t work. Norway ranks one spot below the US. The tradeoff becomes ideological and not pragmatic at that point.
Unlike the USSR where there were clear differences in living standards
Horse Sh*t.
Anyone who can’t figure out this is a country that promises opportunity not entitlements doesn’t even need to be voting. NEVER deviate from your morals to appease anyone. Either they get it or they don’t. When the idiots are having to go out to grow community food, they’ll get a clue. Expect to see a very large, well armed and highjly motivated 50% + Americans not showing up to bail them out.
IMPEACH THE WHOLE DAMN LOT OF THEM
114 BM3K . . . “I morally object to it, but I recognize that it is sometimes necessary, like causing non-combatant child casualties in warfare.”
And that’s why you posted the fetus picture? To say, “I agree with this sometimes.” Nice try.
Now, to address an even greater degree of stopping short:
Who is the leader of the Republicans and/or the conservative movement?”
It’s a simple question at the heart of political discourse today, and only two people have piped up. Maybe they shouldn’t have.
112. Fred Beloit . . . “There is no god-like leader for us. The fact that all y’all need a cowboy to drive you in a herd to feed says it all.”
#1 – No godlike leader? Bush told by God to run. The deification of Ronald Reagan. Republicans falling at the feet of Rush Limbaugh (for god’s sake people) begging for forgiveness.
#2 Cowboy? Herd? I hope you’re trying to be ironic, because if you’re not, you’ve suffered a stroke and should go immediately to the ER. When they ask you for a blood test, just tell em “Don’t mess with Texas.”)
115. Ick:
Perhaps no one. Perhaps the conservative movement doesn’t require a dictatorial figure head to tell us all what to think. Perhaps the conservative movement practices a more inclusive brand of ideology.
Stroke victim #2. George Bush, The Decider, “It sure would be easier if it were a dictatorship . . . just so long as I’m the dictator.”
Dick Cheney when told two-thirds of the American people don’t think the Iraq war is worth fighting said, “So.”
Your boys were more fixated on secrecy than ANY previous administration. “E-mails? About the start of the war, Katrina, Valerie Plame? When the White House was llegally using RNC email servers to circumvent the Presidential Records Act? Sorry, we lost them. Yep, all 12 million of em.”
Dictatorial? Yes. Inclusive? No.
How about it, somebody else wanna try? Who’s your leader? Come on, it can’t really be that hard to answer? Let me help . . . was Reagan a leader? I would say yes.
Approach the question like this . . . “What’s your favorite pie?” You can say apple or cherry or rhubarb, makes no difference to me. But it makes a difference to you. If I were asked that question, I would answer “apple.” I would NOT answer, “I don’t worship pie like you and your socialist pie-eating friends do.”
That would make you a sociopath.
OK, who’s next? Leader?
Just saw two more attempted answers . . . that makes four:
109. typos_R_us: . . . “Don’t have one right now. Newt was and maybe Rush. . . ”
And from there he immediately goes into, oh let’s see . . . the Wiemar Republic . . . the Japs in the 70’s . . . The Usurper declaring an emergency and canceling the mid-term elections . . . 100 million Americans take up arms . . . something about a blind hog and ACORN.
113. venividivici: . . . “I don’t answer to any man, so the polestar I guide myself by is the Constitution and various philosophical doctrines relating to individual liberty and its role in society. I learned more about life from Nietzsche and Caesar than I have from any American.”
That’s all well and good, Little Hercules, but the question remains, “Who is the leader of the Republican/conservative movement? Apparently you don’t feel free enough to answer that without being accused of pledging fealty to a flawed individual or philosophical doctrine. You remind of that Coach character on Survivor this season.
OK, four attempts, only one-tenth of an actual answer . .. “Don’t have one right now.”
People, you gotta do better than.
There would not be a Democrat party without the mainstream media and Hollywood propping it up.
At last nights news correspondents dinner, Obama commented, ‘All of you here voted for me’. I’m sure that got a chuckle from all the elitist leftist snobs in the media.
Your “who’s your Leader” schtick is HILARIOUS (as if the Dems had one…)! Keep it up, little man.
Here’s a bit of interest to those NOT in mommy’s basement:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-viguerie10-2009may10,0,6986091.story?track=rss
Google “tipping point”. History shows that we never know that we’ve crossed over it until days to months (sometimes years) after the fact. There doesn’t have to be a preexisting tipping point that everyone’s all watching in real time for there to be a political singularity. Such singularities always emerge from the chaos after they’ve been crossed.
127 steveg
“It’s good to see you all here tonight, the have’s and the have more’s. Or as I like to call you , my base.” – W
TO: All
RE: sheesh vs. Reality
““It’s good to see you all here tonight, the have’s and the have more’s. Or as I like to call you , my base.” – W” — sheesh
Maybe sheesh would be so kind as to provide the URL that would substantiate that quote.
If not, he’s a miserable excuse for a human being, i.e., a liar.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....and I don't think sheesh is going to like it. He'll have to choose a new blogging moniker, as no one with more than two synapses to rub together will ever beleive anything else he has to say from THIS one.....]
TO: Self-hating Boomer
RE: Tipping Points
I HATE lag-periods.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Be Prepared. -- Boy Scout motto]
That’s all well and good, Little Hercules, but the question remains, “Who is the leader of the Republican/conservative movement? Apparently you don’t feel free enough to answer that without being accused of pledging fealty to a flawed individual or philosophical doctrine. You remind of that Coach character on Survivor this season.
Hi again sheepsh*tforbrains,
Trust me, we all know that you just love pledging fealty to flawed individuals and philosophical doctrines and you prove it every day.
The obvious answer to your question is that there is an ongoing process to narrow the choices that will result in nominating someone as the political head of the party for the next Presidential election.
To the extent that all legislation has to pass Constitutional muster, one could argue that John Roberts is the “de facto” leader of the conservative movement, since his judicial philosophy lays out the requirements for something to be able to pass through judicial review.
I wouldn’t know about Survivor, but I do know that at certain times they’ve had to eat insects and worms. You remind me of those.
so sheesh i guess in regards to post #105 your sticking around then?oh well,you seem like one of the brighter bulbs from dkos or firedog lake.so iguess we could do worse.so,can i post a question that your willing to answer finally? if you live in the us,you are enabling this country to engage in actions that you despise,on a level that boggles the mind.it would be like me residing in iran.how do yo live with yourself?
we have a president who; promised immediate actions to stop the war,withdraw the troops and “repair our image around the world”.did you vote for him?does it bother you in the slightet that he is not withdrawng anybody,has doubled down in afganistan aka the “nationkiller”? and of course ,is ordering more predater strikes in a highly unstable,nuclear armed country.wasn’t it bho who said he would “stop the practices that lead soldiers to terrorize civilians by air raiding them in dead of the night”?i guess blowing them to bits by remote control during daylight hours doesn’t count.
o.k. people seem to like us..er,him alot more than bush.i will give you that.unfortunatly, these people’s adorations mean nothing,it is the leaders that matter.and any rational person who is payig even the slightest amount of attention knows how that went.and i was refering to our so called allies in that last statement.
as far as our advisaries go,they probably cannot come to a consensus on who was easier to bend over, bho or carter.the rumor is, they all agreed though; obama was tighter.
#125 sheesh:
“And that’s why you posted the fetus picture?”
Actually, and I know that you will see this as a gross insult, I wasn’t really addressing you.
Young Mr. Marks wrote an article, (you may recall it somewhere), that the Conservative movement has a problem with getting its’ message out, that it’s beyond the “utes’” attention spans.
I was offering him a few examples where Conservatives CAN get their side of the issues out in a short, sharp and concise manner.
From yours, (and Col. Pelto’s), reactions, I’d say that fishing a human fetus/aborted unborn baby out of the trash can and tossing it on your dinner table is about as blunt and to-the-point as possible.
Certainly seems to have made you take a pass on the evening’s tofu, eh?
oh,and i will answer the question you keep repeating ad nauseum.we are curretly seperating the wheat from the chaff,this is necessary and indeed,welcome.it will go on until at least 2010.so…pretty much leaderless.
i know this might be hard for someone like you to understand,but our principles are what guides us,not leaders.it may sound quaint,but we seem to think that whatever mind set took us from a former colony to the worlds leading super power in 200 plus years is worth keeping.
but hey,enjoy it while it lasts.try not to be such a hater(it is really unhealthy,dontchaknow?)think about it,your sides in charge.you get to have your four years of “hope and chains!”.
NAH-NAH…Don’t like the answer….NAH-NAH-NAH….Can’t hear you….Who is your leader…NAH-NAH-NAH….
Jesus, what a freakin’ stupid question to begin with.
The argument is that you must defend your fellow citizens or you will be next. The primary , fundamental, horrible wrongness of socialized medicine is the government takeover of a person’s livelihood. If the government can walk up to the Doctor and say- “now you work for us – whether you like it or not” – it can say it to the realtor, the accountant ,the grocer, the trucker, their children, and their children’s children. And it will have to. Because the industry won’t generate its own money to keep it going. The money will only be flowing one way- out of the treasury. And when they start running out of that money- they will just let you die. No exaggeration. Study the European systems. They already refuse to care for certain classes of people. Don’t take my word for it. Look it up.
And it isn’t “free” you know. Look at the back of any book you buy. Look at the Canadian price and compare it to the USA price. That’s “free health care”. The Canadians are lucky.They have sheets and indoor plumbing that works. The average Cuban citizen has to provide his own sheets, food, and sometimes, medicine, when he is in hospital.The average Cuban doesnt get antibiotics after surgery. There aren’t any.
There are some things that will always be true. And one of them is- “you get what you pay for.” And the other is “Whenever the government offers to help you, run like your hair’s on fire!”
TO: mamma
RE: For Example
The latter is the proper response.
However, the characters that voted for The One to take care of all their problems were likely those who were either dropped on their head as a small child or were educated by the vaunted American public education system after it went into the toilet.
What’s my point? Something to do with lessons learned from history. Lessons no American public school teaches these days. For example….
These same people who voted for The One, will likely not miss their freedom, as they don’t care about it. At least not until the government comes for THEM. Or, rather, with this national health care system, lets them die on the proverbial vine while it gives preferential treatment to the new oligarchy.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Special privilege for special born.]
P.S. The only difference between Communism and a Monarchy is who gets the privileges. Look at Cuba. Compare it to mid-18th Century France.
TO: Jeremy Marks, et al.
RE: HERE Is the REAL Problem….
…for Conservatives.
We’ve got a president who thinks it ‘funny’ to wish disastrous health conditions on his political opponents.
I don’t recall Bush doing such in his 8 years in office. At least not in such a public venue. But maybe sheesh, if he can EVER tell the truth, could help US with that.
If not, then Obama has broken new ground with his disrespect for citizens of the country he has sworn to protect. What will he do next about his political opponents? One has to wonder……
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....and it could be rather 'messy'.....]
mamma; your preaching to the choir here.im not so worried about us turning into europe, i think that is a near impossibility.what concerns much more than that is, what happens when the united states deceides it wants to become a nation that consumes alot less,produces alot less and scales back it’s military.
besides our nuclear deterrent,our perceived technoloical superiority is our next biggest asset.which really hasn’t been proven in a real war in a long time.where in the miliary are the spending cuts targeting?
we are also currently very busy in a low intesity conflict on multipal fronts in two seperate countries.so why then would russia and china feel the need to escalate their conventional weapons programs.
the united states connects the world to each other through finance,a proven winner in maintaining global stability.what would happen if that link were to be broken?we provide a massive amount of that capital through our consumtion.if things go south here finacially,i think our domestic conditions will be the least of our problems.
oh wait… i totally forgot about the un.nevermind.
134. shaui-jan: You get one shot from me, maroon, then you’re off the list.
First: “If you live in the us,you are enabling this country to engage in actions that you despise” that is patently insane, unless you are willing to
Yes, I voted for Obama. And I’m more glad every day that I did. Am I disappointed that all our troops aren’t out of Iraq ini the last 105 days? Not in the least. He’ll get there. Am I unhappy about predator drones killing innocent people? Yes. do I want Obama to resign because of it appoint Rush Limbaugh or Dick Cheney president? No.
Now on to 136 . . . you’re led by principles not leaders? OK, what principle are you voting for in 2010? Seems to me the last person who matched your ideals was Joe The Palin. You want to keep with that, have at it.
Adios, you incomprehensible bozo.
137. Ick: . . . “Jesus, what a freakin’ stupid question to begin with.”
Who’s the leader of the Republican/conservative movement?
Yeah, it was a real toughie, wasn’t it. A real “gotcha” kind of tricky question, loaded with obscurity and pitfalls. Left-wing media bias! I’m outraged! Smacks of socialism!
Reminds me of this double-edged sword . . . “What newspaper do you read?”
Whoa! Time out! No fair! That’s an attack! Nobody told us there’d be these questions!
Honestly, I’ve never seen such whining in my life. Here’s a tip, Ick, one that you obviously missed along the way or just didn’t believe in . . . It’s OK to say “I don’t know” when you don’t know.
141 to shao-lin , , , dropped part of the sentence: Should read:
First: “If you live in the us,you are enabling this country to engage in actions that you despise”. . . That is patently insane, unless YOU are willing to assume responsibility for all the things you don’t like that are happening in the U.S – I don’t know what they are but I’ll hazard a few guesses: abortion, gay marriage, assisted suicide, medical marijuana. How can you support those things? You should be ashamed of yourself.
Me, I happen to support all those things, so I’m good.
OK, I’m calling the game based on the 10-run rule . . .
Who is the leader of the Republican/conservative movement?
4 responses one-half of an answer . . .
I’d say that’s “the real problem for conservatives.” Glad I could answer that for all you headless horsemen.
131. Chuck Pelto: You can’t be serious. It’s all over the internets. Jut Google “Bush My Elite Base” and wander around in the proof.
And yes, Wanda and Barack absolutely KILLED last night. Fantastic! Hilarious. And you’re gonna whimper about the kidney joke, eh? Would you like some Grey Poupon with that whine? Man up, Nancy.
TO: All the REAL Christians Here
RE: Heh
Maybe, just to provide an example for Obama, we should pray to God that He would visit upon Wanda Sykes the ‘blessing’ she wishes upon Rush. Sort of a modern-day visitation of the sort He did to Pharoh….something about the ‘first-born’.
Not my place to condemn her. But I’m not adverse to asking Him if He thinks it’s a useful object lesson. It’s His call. I just think it would be beneficial for others if something ‘interesting’ along the lines she calls for happened to her.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. In the long run, I hope people learn not to curse each other.
TO: All
RE: ANOTHER….
….Indicator.
Any other intell-types picking up on the ‘pattern of behavior’?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....]
TO: All
RE: An Additional Thought….
….of compare and contrast.
Can ANYONE here point to a ‘reliable source’ URL where ‘conservatives’ of a REAL christian persuasion were praising the fact that Senator Ted Kennedy has brain cancer? Or just ‘laughing’ at the diagnosis?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
145. sheesh:
OK, I’m calling the game based on the 10-run rule . . .
Who is the leader of the Republican/conservative movement?
4 responses one-half of an answer . . .
I’d say that’s “the real problem for conservatives.” Glad I could answer that for all you headless horsemen.
You could have also called it based on the little-known “under 10 IQ rule” which states “when a person with a single-digit IQ asks you a meaningless question, it is OK not to answer”.
Thanks for playing, Miss Single-digit IQ!! We all appreciate your perspective and are just so darned glad to see the cognitively-challenged try to play a positive role in society!!
Buh-bye.
sheesh;when people try to insult me over the internet, i just assume their p—–s,because they,uh..you are.i will make my points clearer so you can understand my insane, semi-coherant ramblings.
all the things you listed that your for,the presidents pretty much against.the guy you voted for is going to do virtually everything that you complained bush did and then some.
your mans going to wage war,approve asassinations,enact economic sanctions that are going to starve and kill thousands(mostly the elderly and children).redact people to be tortured.sell big guns to bad people,give politcal cover to tyrants…and of course bombing,plenty of bombings.
so it is truly too late in the game for you to squeal”but im against that,im against that!”and think that means anything to a grown up.so suck it up and quite sniveling.
do you know what you get when you are given a choice between disaster and catatrophy and pick neither?catastrophy.that’s one of the reasons why people like you usually end up causing the most amount of suffering when given the opportunity.no backbone.
personly,i have no problem with any of those things you listed ,besides abortion. but i do not want the federal goverment to make it illegal,or make me pay for it.i am fairly certain most of the people you are attacking here feel the same way.i am against assisted suicide though,too many depressed weak-willed people would take the easy way out.(i’m looking at you,sheesh)
clock off,go to youtube and check out some pat condell…you need to lighten up and smile a little.because with the statists in charge,i am probably going to end up footing the bill for your sad,sorry ass one way or the other.so enjoy.
oops! almost forgot; FISA and executive privilage…..
TO: sheesh
RE: The Elite/My Base
Touché.
However, where and when did he say that?
Was that a White House Correspondence Dinner? Or some other event? There’s no indication of the context. And, as we’ve noted here, you tend to leave out vital information.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[What they are telling you can be important. What they are NOT telling you can be vital. -- CBPelto]
“Yeah, it was a real toughie, wasn’t it. A real “gotcha” kind of tricky question, loaded with obscurity and pitfalls. Left-wing media bias! I’m outraged! Smacks of socialism!”
No. Just stupid. Repeating the question over and over and over and over like an autistic child doesn’t make it any more clever.
One has to admire SXXX’s logic:
“Am I unhappy about predator drones killing innocent people? Yes. do I want Obama to resign because of it appoint Rush Limbaugh or Dick Cheney president? No.? No.”
Lets make a syllogism of this, shall we?
–Shxxx doesn’t like it that Obama continues drone attacks in the Afghan.
–Shxxx doesn’t want Obama to resign
–ERGO: If Obama resigns because “…of it appoint Rush Limbaugh or Dick Cheney president? No.? No.”
QED
Lordy day in the evening, what a dope.
i kinda wonder what it would be like to have a debate with someone like sheesh,in person?he wouldn’t be able to pick and choose the remarks he decided to comment on.and,would have to respond in a timely manner to questions posed(no googling or editing)oh,and of course,would not be able to bray childish insults.that would be a very short conversation indeed,i believe.
oh,and that ‘who’s my base comment’ was taken out of context by mike moore in one of his mockumenteries about six years ago.been debunked for a while now….might want to update your snark,lil’fella.
TO: sheesh
RE: Sooooo….
….where DID that quote come from?
As I stated earlier, you’re notorious for taking things out of context.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
It is very interesting to read the slew of articles appearing on this site on why the GOP lost and how to get power back again. I remember the same sentiments, the gloom and doom scenarios, from the democrats during the Bush era.
This is just democracy in action. You see this in any country with a decent democratic system. No, political party is going to continue to win elections for ever. This is actually good for the country. While both conservatives and liberals may not agree with me, neither philosophy is good for the country if unchallenged. So now it is the democrats turn. After a few years the conservatives will get their chance and the cycle will continue …
157 . . . Chuck Pelto
I’m gonna give you a chance first to extricate yourself . . . Are you claiming the Bush “my base” comment didn’t happen? Are you standing with shaui-jan and his meritless claim that it is somehow , what, doctored? Or that it was said at a secret Bush strategy session with George Soros? What exactly are you claiming? Be careful.
Here’s some context for ya:
http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/smerconish-bust-fox-news-producer-hacks
Thank god Fox News aren’t Republicans or conservatives or they would be giving you folks a bad name.
It is doctored somewhat. The original quote was:
‘This is an impressive crowd – the haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elites; I call you my base.’
On the other hand, sheesh, you asshat…
George Bush said this at the Al Smith Dinner, which is a traditional dinner held in New York usually a month or so before a presidential election. The quote is from October 20th, 2000. The presidential nominees from both parties usually attend this dinner, and traditionally poke fun at the images of themselves that had become meme’s during that election cycle. George Bush wasn’t joking about the image of his being the candidateof the rich.
At the same dinner, Al Gore poked fun at himself by referencing his campaign initiative to address job losses (yup, a lot of jobless techies after the internet bubble burst) when he said:
“There’s woman who’s here tonight, whose husband is about to lose his job. She’s struggling to get out of public housing and get a job of her own. Hillary Clinton, I want to fight for you!”
Do you have a point, sheesh? What exactly are YOU claiming?
I’m going to give YOU a chance to extricate yourself. And be careful.
Research the 2008 Al Smith Dinner. Give us an account of Barack Obama’s and John McCain’s quips at each other, and at THEMSELVES.
I’ll make a prediction. There won’t be any Michael Moore types on the right taking Barack’s quips at the 2008 dinner out of context and lying about them.
Moore conveniently neglected to mention that Bush’s quote was said at the Al Smith Dinner, an apolitical fundraiser for Catholic Charities. The marching morons on the left grabbed Moore’s tale of it being said at a fundraiser at face value and ran with it, as the left so often does with lies or omissions that fit their narrative.
Asshat.
Pardon the typo all (except the asshat).
‘George Bush was joking….’
thanks,sheepsh.that about six minutes of life.i will never get back.been on crooks and liars before know the theme.that segment was particuarly unenlightening.makes you wonder what the four minutes they edited out was?no more links,if you please.
what,they have finally figured out that one of fnc’s main buisness models is to incourage rigoris,often confrontational debate?how…shocking.surely,no problem has ever been solved through lively,impassioned discourse.
kind of the slow coach on this issue then.the dems seemed to have known about fox’s evil intentions back during the last election in 2008.that’s why they bravely declined to debate in that forum.i heard some wanted to man up but were threatened from their party not to attend.just typical wingnut propaganda im sure.
161 Dan the Fan . . . No caution required where you’re concerned. I trundle you with abandon.
Yeah, I know the source of the quote. I offered the quote, remember? If Michael Moore referred to it somewhere, that’s news to me. But it doesn’t surprise me to hear you glom onto whatever Michael Moore said to try and minimize the idiocy of W’s humor. Why deal with the man when you can attack his critics?
“Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be here somewhere . . . Nope, no weapons over there . . . Maybe under here.” That’s a joke, too. Of course people were dying in droves because of his WMD scavenger hunt, but who cares about that? Anyone? I know you don’t, Pissant, because, let me see, let me see . . . because it was said at the Correspondents Dinner! Yeah. That’s why. It was just a joke! Anybody who gets upset about anything said in that context is a candy-ass politically correct moron.
You remind me of Condi Rice (in more ways the one) when she said, “Look, it was just 16 words out of the entire speech.” Of course, those 16 words were “The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” And they came in the middle of his SOTU speech. But hey, they were just 16 words. Hey, you dot think he was joking, do you? sometimes it’s hard to tell.
“I’ll make a prediction. There won’t be any Michael Moore types on the right taking Barack’s quips at the 2008 dinner out of context and lying about them.”
You’re already wrong, numbnads. Instantaneously wrong. Does the name Wanda Sykes ring a bell? Obama didn’t even have to be the one making the joke. All he had to do was smile and your “Michael Moore types on the right” are excoriating him and Wanda Sykes.
You see what happens when you’re not careful? Go back and “research” some more. Better yet, maybe you should inject some Human Growth Hormone. It’s sure to shrink that numbness in your nads.
Hey, Dan the Fan, maybe you can do what no one else has been able to do – answer this question:
Who is the leader of the Republican party and/or the conservative movement?
(Here’s a hint: It’s not Al Smith.)
sheesh, asshat, I’m disappointed. It’s been well established here that you are challenged when it comes to reading other people’s comments. But not being able to track on your own comments?
156. shaui-jan:
oh,and that ‘who’s my base comment’ was taken out of context by mike moore in one of his mockumenteries about six years ago.been debunked for a while now….might want to update your snark,lil’fella.
May 11, 2009 – 9:33 am
159. sheesh:
…Are you standing with shaui-jan and his meritless claim that it is somehow , what, doctored?
shaui-jan did not say doctored. Doctor is what an asshat sees at 2;30 every Thursday. shaui-jan said taken out of context. Taking out of context is…well…asshat…you should be able to look that term up. If not, check back, someone will help you out.
Well, you aren’t much on reading comprehension, but the funny thing is, asshat, it is somewhat doctored as I mentioned. The quote was tortured (waterboarded to an asshat) just enough…by Michael Moore to start…that when you search the asshat version of the quote, you find it all over marching moron sites. So asshats like yourself keep pushing out the ‘doctored’ quote without a one of you ever finding out the truth.
Now, asshat, after I actually did understand your comment #159, no great feat to anybody here but an asshat, I responded b giving a little background showing that shaui-jan was right…his comment as written and understood by non-asshats did indeed have merit…and you were wrong both in putting up the doctoring strawman when you…being an asshat and all…didn’t understand the common words in his comment, and choosing a strawman so easy to knock down.
Right from Michel Moore’s mouth to your ears…well, let’s not continue building on that image, seeing as where an asshat keeps his head, and ears.
Then again, maybe you aren’t aware that it was Moore who first waterboarded the quote. Every indication is that you swallow, hook, line, and sinker the last generation every marching moron talking point. Moore being an iconic figure to the marching morons though…you really should have attributed your waterboarded version of the quote to him.
At the end there, shit for brains, you even trumped yourself…no great accomplishment generally but for you, impressive. Waterboarding peoples disgust at Obama’s offensive enjoyment of Sykes’ bile into something equivalent to Moore’s taking another president’s quote…president to be at the time…out of context, misrepresenting it, and thereby launching a thousand leaky lefty ships won’t make it.
research? asshat, you’re the poster child for lack thereof.
I take it you didn’t finish your assignment. You’re adjunct community college professor must get tired of that. Try again, asshat. Come up with a list of the quips from the last Al Smith dinner. Post them…or reach over and write them on your basement wall, that’ll do. Then sometime we’ll discuss why there just doesn’t seem to be any Michael Moore Fahrenheit 911 type movies out there from the right…and no legions of marching morons fastening on waterboarded Obama quotes from this notional movie.
Don’t be concerned about identifying yourself if we again get to discussing waterboarding quotes and the dearth of Michael Moore types on the right at some future point, asshat. I’m sure you’ll be many generations into new identities and sock puppets…by the way, not much heard from poor ‘Shadow’ lately. Consigned to the rag bag since, who was it, Delia?, exposed you?…but I’ll recognize you, asshat.
Because asshats have a certain distinctive…aura…about them.
165. asshat:
I’ll go with the general opinion of the ‘seriousness’ and fundamental lack of political sense in your question. ick’s pithy characterization of your question from #154 does seem apt though. Just because it important enough to both innocent autistic children, and not so innocent asshats, that they repeat it endlessly, doesn’t give it enough merit to warrant an answer.
Just as an observation though, asshat. Obama may be the default leader of the democrats…sort of like the head lemming…but he doesn’t seem to be too concerned about leading the marching moron crowd and their handlers to their shining city now that they’re more liability than useful.
Does serve up endlessly entertaining gnashing of teeth and rending of garments scenes on the left though. And undoubtedly even more when they get down to really munching on their own. Or what they though was their own.
asshat
TO: Dan
RE: Thanks!
I figured sheesh would be hiding essential information to put this matter into the proper context. It’s his/her usual MO.
And, if sheesh wishes to know the significance of the information from THIS vs. the comment by Obama, it has to do with the ‘focus group’. In the latter case it is the so-called major media of the nation who provide information to the rest of US. In the former, it’s campaign contributors.
If you can’t recognize the difference, you must have graduated from high school in the last 10-20 years.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]
P.S. ERRATA
So, Al Gore was there too? Sorry I missed that point.
But it DOES make for a more interesting compare and contrast vis-a-vis what Obama said at the White House Correspondence Dinner.
Don’t you think?
Dan the Fan . . . I don’t think I’ve ever seen more words used in greater desperation – proving only that those words have nothing to do with anything. Bush said what he said. That’s what I pointed out. You spend the next two days trying to say it didn’t matter what he said. News flash: I already know it doesn’t matter to you what W said. Ever. And Chuck being equally desperate attaches his tongue to your ass in hopes he won’t have to swallow the truth, just more of your crap – a bargain in his mind.
Let me give you the perfct example. You spend oodles of words talking about a doctored quote. In my first post on the matter, I offered from memory:
“It’s good to see you all here tonight, the have’s and the have more’s. Or as I like to call you , my base.”
The actual quote, which I provided a link to when challenged, was this:
“This is an impressive crowd – the haves and the have-mores. Some people call you the elites; I call you my base.”
I see no substantive difference, nor would nay other rational, clear-thinking human. It certainly doesn’t prove any nefarious manipulation on my part. BUT YOU’RE OUTRAGED! I still have no idea what Michael Moore has to do with any of this. Did he use the quote in a movie? If he did, so what? If anything, my abridged quote was milder, having left out calling the crowd elites. And over this you soil yourself?
I know, it was being instantaneously wrong about the right wing media types attacking Obama and Sykes that pinned you in the corner. (There’s even some blog site somewhere on the Internets talking about it . . . . what’s the site . . . wait, I remember the headline of the post – The Obama-Wanda Sykes Chilling Laugh Fest – maybe you could research what site that’s on, not that it matters.) That’s what you’re most upset about. I would be, too, if I’d made such an ignorant prediction only to have it proven so boneheaded so quickly.
Here’s something that might put your stunning scholarship to better use – find me a quote where Obama apologized for America. That oughta keep you busy – forever. (And hopefully it will pull you back from your our ensuing fugue state so clearly evident in post #167 – literally incomprehensible. I’m guessing it has to do with “Who’s the leader of the Republican/conservative movement?” Is that right? If so, what is your answer? The only person you mentioned was Obama. Is that your answer? Or is there NOT a leader for the Republican/conservative movement? Maybe there’s a leader and you just don’t know who it is. Are you ashamed to admit who the leader is? I’m giving you a lot of options (and outs) here FanDan. I’m convinced now that the “multiple choice” format is your best chance. Don’t thank me. I support giving people like you a fighting chance through remedial curricula.
And this time, when you gather up all those things we call words, remember, it’s not just about how many you use. It’s also really important to think about the order in which they appear. Chuck, keep standing by for further instructions.
Chuck,
Not even campaign contributers, though asshat and the rest of the marching morons bought into the ‘said at a fundraiser’ meme, with the …nudge, nudge, wink, wink, it was a republican fundraiser…lie attached.
The Al Smith dinner is an apolitical fundraiser for Catholic Charities.
sheepsh;’show me where obama apologized for america.’your right,he cannot show you,it never happened.
just like that bogus photo of him bowing to a king.
he was just so much taller than him and had to bend at the waist and knee to reach his hand.
what did you idiots want our towering dear leader to do….pat him on the head?
the speech in question never showed at any time,obama displaying any humility at all.if you did see anything that appeared to look like him stating that america is capable of acknowledging past misakes or divisive attitudes,you know,like an apology,your wrong.
or,it had to have been cleverly doctered in some way…..like the photo.
because it never happened.
171 and 172 – The vanquishing of my lessers is complete. And I thank you. Careful, Chuck.
Now to put this last matter to rest . . . .Who is the leader of the Republican and/or conservative movement?
Me! It is I, the great sheesh, who leads and confounds and inspires you so. Stand by for further instructions.
asshat:
Have to excuse me. Only had a minute earlier, and chose to read and respond to Chuck. Prioritizing an inquiring mind over an asshat is a no brainer.
‘…- find me a quote where Obama apologized for America.’
Nope. I don’t take any direction from you whatsoever, asshat. Why would I set up a debate with you? That requires that you have a few basic tools in your box…common sense, cause and effect, logic…I’d go on, but in brief, competently thinking for yourself aptly describes the toolset. There’s only one thing in your toolbox, asshat. That’s belief without question.
You’re so wholeheartedly a believer in the dogmatic tripe the high priests of the left offer to the marching morons, you shoved your own head so far up your own ass that dispensing entirely with any idea of thinking for yourself now comes naturally.
I don’t pipe in when I see you modeling the latest asshattery for the well-dressed liberal because I intend to debate you. I do it because I’m laughing at you and see no reason not to let you know it.
#173 sheesh:
“The vanquishing of my lessers is complete. And I thank you. ”
Ahhhh, little blog-slave, the only “lessers” around here that YOU could vanquish would be if PJM had bed-bugs.
(And I’m not ceratin that all the wagers would favor you).
sheephs;you have been out done by muppet,it defended pelosi.you stayed in safer waters and were bested.
hang your head in shame.
your still a strong second.luckily for you,herb sucks at trolling.
174 Dan . . . Remember back in the day when I said you had more oomph than most? I was overly generous.
“a no brainer . . . the toolset . . . dogmatic tripe the high priests of the left offer . . . head so far up your own ass”
Come on, that’s not even trying. You’re rapidly devolving into oblivion. Be careful or I won’t invite you in.
175. Bilgeman . . . I see you’ve taken Chuck P’s suggestion to heart . . . “ixnay on the loryhole-gay” Chuck, that was good advice.
177: asshat
‘…Remember back in the day when I said you had more oomph than most?’
Nope. I suppose you might have…there comes a point where I don’t revisit threads you’re likely still raving in. But then it’s been well established on PJM that it’s never safe to bet on what you say, what you say you said, what you think you said, or what you think someone else said.
‘Be careful or I won’t invite you in.’
Only room up there for your own head, asshat.
178. Dan: . . . Here’s the beauty of it . . . you don’t have to revisit anything. I supply the relevant context, and then I destroy you. It’s a simple formula. Very effective. You have a different approach that relies on talking about my butt. You’re not the first man to be mesmerized by its gravity-defying tautness, but I’m afraid I have to disappoint you . . . I’m not that way. Sorry. Perhaps shan-jaya can accommodate your fascinations.
sheepsh;this is very interesting.i spent hours a week doing p.t. in the sweltering heat. i also follow a strict diet.i am very fit and still could not describe my posterior in that way.you sit behind a computer all day and munch on comfort food and slam shots on your breaks.
i assume you do this because you take a mighty beatdown on a daily basis and still are able to come back.are you a masochist?also,what is your secret for your amazing backside?and how are men able to gaze on it and be “mesmerized”?do you wear a thong,or just real tight pants?
btw,still trailing second.remember,if your not first….you might as well be last.