The Push to Create Palestine
The other result: the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Its leaders, President Mahmoud Abbas and Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, are more presentable than Hamas and seem more moderate. With the help of huge international aid, the PA’s economy has been growing. Though not long ago it exploded along with Gaza in the savage terrorism of the Second Intifada, the PA has been quieter in recent years.
And yet, an enlightened regime, too, it is not. It continues to cultivate an ethos of hatred and delegitimization of Israel no less extreme than that of Hamas. Torture is already rampant in its jails. Researcher Justus Reid Weiner reports that under the PA (as well as Hamas), “Christian Arabs [...] have been victims of frequent human rights abuses including intimidation, beatings, land theft, firebombing of churches and other Christian institutions, denial of employment, economic boycott, torture, kidnapping, forced marriage, sexual harassment, and extortion.”
And if the PA were to attain sovereignty, even its modest economic progress — along with much else — would likely collapse. Israeli intelligence warns that bereft of Israel’s role, the PA security forces would quickly fall to Hamas. Sovereign Palestine would probably absorb hundreds of thousands of indigent Palestinians from “refugee camps” in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan, a formula for yet more poverty, unemployment, misery, and violent agitation.
Argentina, Brazil, Russia, folks at Foggy Bottom, et al. would not, of course, have to be neighbors of sovereign Gaza and Palestine. What’s another dysfunctional Arab statelet or two when there are already so many, most of them much larger? But Israel would be a neighbor of both of them, sandwiched between them. A rational standpoint — beyond the reflexive backing for the Palestinians that marks almost the entire international arena — would ask if this is a formula for “stabilization” of the Middle East or exactly the opposite.
In December the outgoing Congress — pro-Israel, but less so than the incoming one — voted unanimously against a unilateral declaration of statehood by the Palestinians. The crucial question is whether the Obama administration will support or oppose the Palestinians’ push to gain a state by fiat, and if it opposes it, whether it will do so effectively enough. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton came out against such a declaration in October. So far the PA is not deterred.
Put aside the fact that Palestinian unilateralism is a gross violation of the principle, enshrined in a series of international documents, that territorial issues with Israel are to be resolved through negotiations. We must not shy away from posing an unfashionable question: what moral or pragmatic purpose can be served by adding the current Gaza and West Bank regimes to the calamitous realm of Arab sovereignty?
The only reason that the Arab world, much of Europe, and at least the American President Barack and his State Department and CIA wants a Palestinian state is to endanger Israel and ultimately destroy the Jewish State.
The Arabs themselves have made it clear that they are not concerned at all about the Palestinians. But the Arab and Islamic world exploit the Palestinian cause in order to cause Israel’s demise and as a lighting rod for all the unemployment, poverty, and ignorance that the majority of their benighted citizens suffer.
The simple fact is that a Palestinian state without Israel beside it would be gobbled up by Egypt, Syria, and Jordan within hours of it’s creation, period.
More likely Hamas, backed by Iran, would overthrow any PA government.
Ken, and so it goes.The Secret War Against the Jews continues apace, but this time its locus is the heart of our Jewish State/homeland.
While few Arabists and their western enablers speak about Tel Aviv et al as their focal point, they aim directly for our jugular-Jerusalem and Judea & Samaria.
To wit, they understand the essence of the struggle.Removing us from our heart is a recipe for our eventual/inevitable collapse-one way or another.Thus, as our heart goes, so too does the rest of our Jewish body.
The salient question is -will the caretakers of our patrimony allow the destruction of our homeland for the 3rd time in history?
Time will tell…..
is this legal to fly a plo flag on U…S. SOIL, looks like their moving in
for good.
The Palis ought to be offered Uganda or Niue, since none of the lands of Islam seem to be acceptable.
“Yet in the face of all this, the push to convert Palestine into the 22nd sovereign Arab state is only gathering steam.”
There are two things at play here. Massive anti-Semitism and a desire on the part of most of the world to just have this issue go away. Many countries, with Obama and Clinton included, think that if they just make Palestine a state all of the troubles in the arab world will simply disappear. The Muslims will “adore” us for making this happen and all of the anti-west hatred and terrorism that the radical Islamists are responsible for will simply vanish. What utter nonsense.
The clash of civilizations is here, folks, and the Muslims in the Middle East not only want to destroy Israel, but they want to export their brand of Shariah Law and Muslim Fundamentalism right here in the west. So far, Europe is feeling the brunt of this attack, but is too weak or too cowardly to do anything about it. So the west, especially the Europeans, believe that if they just humor the Palestinians, if they just give them their own state, all will be right with the world. Let them try it. That will only make things worse in the Middle East and, once Iran gets its nuclear bomb, they will give it to Hezbollah and actually try to destroy Israel. As usual, Obama, Clinton, and the liberal Europeans are being played for chumps, and all of them are going for it. Sad, really, for the Israelis. Being sold out by their former “friends” must be a bitter thing to accept. But it is happening.
Time is ripe for the colonial power and those pesky zionazis to give it up and give in to what they cannot stop, the creation of Palestine, with it’s historic, rightful owners the “arabs” of Palestine.
Excuse me while I run to the bathroom and puke…
Ok, really…
Time is ripe for the west and Israel to give it up. The “palestinians”, a FAKE nationalistic people, created specifically to take the name of the Jews (before 1948 “palestinians” were the JEWS folks) demands a state and refuses to give any compromise about Israel.
Take the arabs at their word. GIVE THEM THEIR STATE.
Of course several new rules will have to be enforced.
If the State of Palestine wishes to be:
Israel will cut off all water, electricity, trade, medical assistance & security.
Israel will respond to any and all attacks as acts of war and will systematically destroy any and all structures (both governmental and private) connected with said attacks.
Any actions declaring Israel as occupying disputed lands will be countered with new Israel land demands, such as Hebron, Bethlehem & and demands for any and all arab seized businesses & properties in 1948 forward. Israel will also start lawfare against the arab world for the Hebron riots and the expulsion from Arabia in 640 with demands for oil profits from Arabia.
While we are at it. Rent shall be charged for the Dome of the Rock (1400 years worth) and demand for the structure to be removed forthwith. All Islamic Arab citizens will be given 30 days to leave Israel and move to the newly created “palestine” until equal minority % are created. (Right now Israel has 22% non-jewish population, Palestinians have ZERO. Equality is the name of the game. As long as Jews cannot OWN land in Palestine? Islamic Arabs cannot own land in Israel.
One other issue. The arab/islamic world. They collectively enforce boycotts of all Israeli goods. This is fine. Israel should make sure all of it’s exports have a Star of David (or Christian Cross for Israeli Christians) This is most important for any and all exports that are in computer world and medical services industries. If the Arabs want to avoid Israeli products, MORE power to them…
It’s time we let the Palestinians and the arab world have freedom, the fun little point? There are no promises of success.
My prediction?
Palestine is a still born issue. But then again? So is the Arab world and it’s Islamic friends. The collective arab world needs a reality check. Mass starvation, rioting, death and destruction is the cards for them, let’s stop holding them back from themselves.
That’s the first truly realistic approach I’ve seen. Islam wants to rule the world the war if necessary. Give them a state, impose the rules that the rest of the states live with, and let them feel the consequences of not acting like a state.
And quit giving them my money. I don’t like giving money to people that want to kill me.
I like it!
In general, let the West Bank PA “secede” and Hamas kill and take them over. Then Israel will have clearly defined enemies. She can set her boundaries wherever she damn well please, and if Hamas attacks, there’s Israel’s excuse to attack back MASSIVELY. If Israel wants, it can simply enforce whatever boundaries it wants since clearly Hamas will not want to negotiate (seems like the best of both worlds for Israel frankly), the PA will be gone, and we will have an op and honest and clear enemy *Hamas*) with whom to fight all round.
Of course, on the West bank they’ll be closed in since Israeli forces will occupy the entire Jordan Valley. Any Palestinians that want to leave let him. ALL tunnels must be destroyed and a second “wall” with all the electronic gizmos will need to be built.
But again, like with Lebanon now, ANY provocation should be met with Vigorous retaliation. That will make things very clear. Sometimes a shake-up leading to clarity like that, even though more brutal, is a blessing. It also effectively kicks the US out of telling Israel what to do with every sq inch of land since they will now have an avowed enemy on all sides and they will clearly be justified to do what they want.
The American people will LOVE it for a variety of American cultural reasons. As it stands now, they cannot understand why Israel, the stronger of the two by miles, won’t simply “dictate terms” — this will let them do exactly that (after Hamas takes over the West Bank).
Besig is 100% correct, the ‘state of Palestine’ is just a ruse to bring about Israel’s destruction and only the loony moronic Left in Israel don’t know any better. Look what happened after we left Gaza, a disaster for Israel, so those who insist we abandon more territory to Arab Muslim fascists (Fatah, never mind HAMAS!) in exchange for “peace” wilfuly ignore and discount the disastrous Gaza experience. The question is why do they ignore the facts about Gaza over the last five years, facts from the twenty first century for crying out loud? To ask the question is to answer it.
Those who support in the name of peace a Palestinian state are thus frankly no better than Nazis, and I don’t say that lightly, since whatever the intentions, the consequences are no less than the risk of another Holocaust; no not by the Palestinians themselves of course, but in concert with their neighbours in any future conflict. Without the buffer zone of the West Bank in ’73, Israel could easily have lost the Yom Kippur War, it was a close thing as it was.
It’s not that the Nazis weren’t as bad as history makes them out to be, they were, it’s just that most others are no better – support for a Palestinian state is a litmus test. The fact that most Western people are ignorant of the Palestinians true intentions matters not a jot, given we are talking about nothing less than a ruse to destroy the Jewish state. It is a meaningless defense to say that many Western Leftists AND conservatives are just useful idioits/dhimmis who know not what they do. This will be no comfort if and when we face a grim jihad and our very survival is at stake.
Israel has as much to fear from a so-called Palestinian state as it does from an Iranian nuclear bomb programme.
Okay, true, but Beilin, Peres and Rabin made Oslo, albeit under pressure. The Israeli establishment has never given up on the ‘two-state solution’ and marginalizes even people like Benny Elon.
The problem sits with us. We can make the world’s designs or desires or whims recede. But most Israelis prefer the status quo, and the ‘push to create Palestine’ is part of it.
I can’t think of a people who deserve to have their own state less than the Palestinians. They deserve to be driven our of Israel, and Lebanon, back to the squalor from which most of them have come.
I’m sorry but was is the alternative to a new state in the west bank? and if the west bank rightly belongs to israel, what rationale can be given for “the only democracy in the middle east” denying seats in the knesset to west bank arabs? any whack jobs here want to morally justify the idea of forcibly transferring west bank arabs across the east bank to jordan? or allowing arabs to make up 30% or 40% of the knesset, and maybe 50% some day?
because those are the only two alternatives to the much-maligned two-state solution.
What is your solution to Muslims who want to murder every last Jew and murder Americans? No nation, including Israel, should be immorally highly pressured into committing national suicide. It is global jihad against every non-Muslim.
Council on American-Islamic Relations: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.” – Omar Ahmad (CAIR co-founder).
Addressing a youth session at the 1999 Islamic Association for Palestine’s annual convention in Chicago, CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) founder Omar Ahmad praised suicide bombers who “kill themselves for Islam,”
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52184
Financed by the US/EU/UK, global jihadists, Murder Incorporated, Palestinian Authority call for the Murder of All Jews and the Murder of Americans:
Broadcast from Gaza mosque, Oct 13 2000, Dr. Ahmad Abu Halabiya, on Palestinian Authority TV (transcribed by Memri): “Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them. Wherever you are, kill those Jews and those Americans who are like them…”
U.S. leaders must immediately explain to Americans and Jews, why the Palestinian Authority, whose goal is the murder of all Jews and the murder of Americans, are heavily financed, armed, and continually trained by the U.S. (all of the advanced military US training is used against Israel) and inform Americans how many U.S. trained terrorists have been implanted into America. And explain why U.S. leaders demand that Muslim terrorists are given a terror state inside tiny, vulnerable Israel.
“and if the west bank rightly belongs to israel, what rationale can be given for ‘the only democracy in the middle east’ denying seats in the knesset to west bank arabs?”
You seem to think Israel’s desire to portray itself as the only democracy in the Middle East is a suicide pact. In truth, if by the term “democracy” you mean “multiculturalism” (a state of all its citizens), then I agree with you. Therefore, Israel shall become a Jewish Republic–a democracy for its nation, with multiculturalism banned (together with any kind of Marxism and its offshoot) and replaced with the idea of The State As Its Nation’s Castle. Much saner, and the right of every nation.
“any whack jobs here want to morally justify the idea of forcibly transferring west bank arabs across the east bank to jordan?”
I am, and that doesn’t make me a whack job, nor is there any moral problem with it. The fact is ethnic cleansing has worked without a hitch for the Czech Republic and former Czechoslovakia ever since 1945, when the Sudeten Germans, Hitler’s excuse for later conquering the entirety of Czechoslovakia, were forcibly expelled; and it will work well with the Sudeten Arabs, falsely called “Palestinians” (the Jews are the only true Palestinians), the excuse of Islamic imperialism for wiping out the one and only Jewish State (God forbid).
“because those are the only two alternatives to the much-maligned two-state solution.”
The Phakestinans don’t want a state of their own; the Arabs, possessors of more than twenty states occupying a huge mass of land, want to take away the single, tiny state of the Jews. If you believe the fraudulent Phakestinian Narrative, you’re either a dupe or agree with their imperialistic agenda.
I completely agree with you and you just got ahead of me!
Additionally, these whackjobs who seek to intimidate by playing the ‘morality” card – a card with they decide what is moral and what isn’t – are ridiculaously transparent.
They never criticise the Palis for being immoral killers who are gaslighting Israel and perpetrating untold horrors on the world, but decide it’s OK to tell Israel what to do according to their self-defined “morality”.
It is immoral to threaten your own citizens with a murderous population. Those Palestinians who live peacefully in Israel are to be respected like every other citizen, but those spouting and facilitating jihad have no automatic right to be there.
Whatever we think of the Palestinian’s declaration, if enough states and the UN go along, Israel will have to respond–it’s not enough to refer to “sacred” international documents and treaties. No one cares about that stuff, and neither should we. Israel might consider a lot of things–like unilaterally declaring its own borders, so as to include most of the settlements; demanding that the new Palestinian state protect any Israeli citizens within its borders, and reserving the right to intervene on their behalf; declaring that any hostile actions over the borders will now be treated as acts of war, with the new government held fully responsible, etc. It would be better to think over and discuss such possible responses than to complain about the unfairness of it all–indeed, the best way to convince everyone to back down is to make it clear that the consequences will not be what they hope for.
If you look at a color coded map of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and think of them instead as military units it is easy to see what Israel’s concerns are here. Strategically they are the same as those that caused Israel to seize the West Bank in the first place, namely the ability for any military force coming out of the West Bank to cut Israel in two. The Jewish settlement locations outside of Jerusalem are likely where any Palestinian state would concentrate its military bases.
Into the mix is the case of Lebanon and the inability of that country to exert its sovereignty south of the Litani river, the area that was so heavily bombed by the Israeli air force in 2006. Should Hizbollah somehow end up in charge of Lebanon, unlikely, Israel could use it as a pretext to occupy Southern Lebanon.
A Palestinian State is coming like it or not and the correct way for them to do it to achieve success is to simply declare a state without Israel’s permission and with the support of the international community. Neither war, terrorism or negotiations have worked so why not try it?
There is little doubt that any Palestinian State established will immediately start clamoring for more concessions such as right of return but the international community will turn a deaf ear to this and the Palestinian Arabs will have to start dealing with the reality of a Jewish state rather than their hatred of one, a far different proposition. The risk for Israel is an eventual Palestinian union with and overthrow of the current Jordanian regime.
Israel will figure out some way of exploiting a division between the Sunni Palestinian Arabs and Shi’ite Hizbollah with Southern Lebanese PA refugee camps in the mix. Lines on maps are far from as settled in this region as people imagine and the extent to which this is true is the extent to which the international community is willing to become physically involved in any all out war between Israel and Hizbollah which is also coming, like it or not.
What Hizbollah doesn’t understand is how isolated their position really is; it is one thing for countries to give them money and another to physically support them which no one will do. Syria will not interfere in the coming confrontation between Hizbollah and Israel. Not one group in the region supports Hizbollah because of who they are outside of Iran. They are only supported to the extent they can be used by other players to advance their own cause. When push comes to shove, the next push may be one to destroy Hizbollah once and for all by denying it Southern Lebanon and pushing it up against the Lebanese Christians Israel cares nothing about.
In other words nothing has changed in a region that is increasingly overpopulated and there is no peace to be seen in the near future.
‘..unemployment is rampant, desperate poverty is growing, and regimes are Mafia syndicates stealing from the populace’.
Gaza and West Bank are both under Hamas’s thumb.
Yet with all that squalor and dire present and future, Arabs (in both the M E and Europe), Haitians, Africans, Thais etc., continue to populate like bunnies.
Honestly, WHERE is the voice of lucid medical professionals, doctor’s voicing to these folks, ‘Okay people. Whether you know it or unwilling to accept it, you’re stupid. You’re continued procreation with NO afterthought of its consequences only places further burdens on intelligent, hard-working, self-reflective Western world people who have ~1-3 children. So, you HAVE to consider tying your tubes or voluntary sterilization. Sure your name will die with you.. but your and many of your generations before you are no more than leeches on any civil society so your name, presently, is a bitter reminder of why no one needs you. Have a nice day’!
The world is no longer serving democracy, but empathy, social/racial/sexual equality and other frightening social engineering constructs. Where the end result is self-destruction and a global 3rd World status.
-$10 billion unaccounted for in Haiti following the quake.. that puts Aristide and ‘Baby’ despots crimes look like a street mugging..
-The tens of billions lost in ‘aid’ to Gaza and the West Bank through the decades produced.. what?
Morality, virtue, self perseverance and honesty is but a distraction, an irritant to our ‘leaders’. Seriously, how can WE hold these same elected officials to ANY accountability with the TENS of TRILLIONS in debt globally? These same people have no scruples, regard or interest to better improve any society, it’s economic outlook or character. It’s all about their warped sense of ‘entitlement’ ‘justice’ and ‘right’.
Pass the popcorn..
The countries that recognize an illegitimate Muslim terrorist state in vulnerable, little Israel, DECEIVE for totalitarian, expansionist Islam.
There Never was an Arab country of Palestine. Jerusalem was Never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Jewish Bible, not once in the Koran.
The inalienable rights of Jews to the Biblical heartland must not be violated! No one is demanding Muslims surrender THEIR top religious areas of Mecca and Medina!
In 1948, Egypt invaded Gaza, ethnically cleansing all Jews and in 1948, Jordan invaded Judea, Samaria and east Jerusalem, ethnically cleansing all Jews.
In violent opposition to G-D, Muslim Jordan destroyed 58 synagogues in Jerusalem. The jihad is against the Holy One.
When Israel won the Arab war of aggression in 1967, Jews returned to the areas of their ancestral homeland they had been ethnically cleansed from for 19 years. Anti-Israel propaganda deceitfully calls Jews’ legitimate return “occupation”.
Jews have had a continuous presence in physical and spiritual homeland Israel for 4,000 years.
All Land and Property Stolen from Jews in the 1948 Islamic Invasion Must be Returned!
Linda I think you will find that Left Wing Newspeak defines Mohammedan INVASION and OCCUPATION as totally legitimate while JEWS are just illegal occupiers.e,g, Egypt OCCUPIES the Sianai ever seen any Mohammedan Gaza and West Bank protests. Nope thought not. You see in la la Islamophile moonbat land ONLY Mohammedans have a ‘Right of Conquest’ Jews of course do not even when responding to deceitful backstabbing genocide bent Arab invasions.
Arabs first started calling themselves “Palestinians” in 1967. Global terrorist, Egyptian Arafat was the first leader of this new people. Partner with Arafat for over 40 years; immorally respected by the US/EU-Holocaust denier, Abbas, financed the massacre of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympic Games.
Before 1948, Jews were known as the Palestinians.
The Jewish newspaper, the Jerusalem Post was called the Palestine Post. The Jewish-founded electric company was Palestine Electric. The Palestinian Symphony Orchestra was all Jewish. During World War II, the British army had a Palestinian Brigade made up entirely of Jewish volunteers.
After Jews migrated to Palestine in significant numbers in the late 1800s and miraculously transformed desert and swamps into rich, agricultural land, Arabs came in large numbers from Arab countries for jobs from Jews.
The fact that the overwhelming majority of Arabs resided only briefly in Palestine is attested to by a one-time special UN decree: that any Arab who had resided in Palestine for only two years before 1948, and then left, would be considered a refugee and so would his descendants!
Throughout history, people were never regarded as refugees if they had resided in a country for only two years because they were clearly citizens of other countries!
I have an obscure text called: “PALESTINE OR THE HOLY LAND.
From the Earliest Period to the Present Time.
BY THE REV. MICHAEL RUSSELL, LL.D.”
The preface is dated 1831 and it says of Ramallah:
“At present it does not contain more than a hundred
miserable families. The houses are only so many huts, sometimes detached,
and sometimes ranged in the form of cells round a court, enclosed by a mud
wall. In winter, the inhabitants and their cattle may be said to live
together; the part of the building allotted to themselves being raised
only two feet above that in which they lodge their beasts.”
In case any sane people drop by, here’s the real news from the Middle East: Wikileaks has published documents showing that the Palestinian Authority offered huge concessions, including almost all of East Jerusalem, to the Israelis. And, of course, they got a kick in the face for their trouble. Here’s the link, if you want something besides PJM’s usual “Israel is always right” spin:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12272523
Shef, have you also read that that Abbas and Erekat are denying the accuracy of the Al Jazzera story? Or that Palestinians are claiming that Al Jazzera is controlled by the Zionists and trying to divide the Palestinians? Have you noticed the uncanny resemblance between the reported offer that the PA made and the documented offer that Israel’s Olmert made and the the PA rejected? Did it strike you as odd that in the ‘leaked’ report the PA refers to Jerusalem by its Hebrew name Yerushalayim and not by its Arabic name of Al Quds?
In short, this report shows every sign of being a forgery, even if Abbas and Erekat say that it is a forgery. You complain about ‘PJM’s usual “Israel is always right” spin’ but you once again uncritically accept and repeat every anti-Israel lie, no matter how transparent.
Sorry, that should have beenIsrael’s Barak, not Olmert.
Shef, please, show me more ‘facts’ from the ever-so-reputable wikileaks.. hahahahaha!
Seriously.. wikileaks!
Say, didn’t you post in the past of other factoids and use wikipedia as a source?
Great act, Shef. Love your stuff. Come by again real soon, mm-kay?
The Mohammedan ARAB invaders and OCCUPIERS already have over 80% of what was the original Mandate of Palestine AND two Mohammedan ARAB Invaders STATES Jordan and Syria and ARAB Egypt OCCUPIES the Sinai. So why do they want another Mohammedan ARAB Invader state carved out of Israels paltry 20% to house the Yasser Arafat’s INVENTED palestinians. Answer they dont what they really want is the total DESTRUCTION of Israel and the JEWS and if they have to do it piece by piece then thats OK. BTW Mohammedans dont make TRUCES as you and I know it they have HUDNAS’s which have a shelf life and which Mohammedans can break at will. Of course they will never admit that.
The “Palestinian state enthusiasts” have reasons for supporting the Palis that have NOTHING to do with the reality of who they are and everything to do with the supporters’ view of themselves as righteous anti-colonialists standing up for the poor oppressed Palestinians and their hatred of capitalist Israel and America.
They actually think the Palis will set up a secular state!
“Will they bestow full sovereignty on it as it’s raining rockets and mortars on Israeli towns?”
Of course they will! They don’t care about Israeli civilians or little kids running to bomb shelters in 15 seconds flat; and in their pea-brains they think it’s legitimate resistance, NOTHING to do with Islam which is a poor beleaguered fairydust religion of poor beleaguered fairydust Arab victims of nasty capitalistcolonialistZionazi Israel and America.
Jeez, don’t you read these idiots’ blogs?
Amazing to see the comments section of pajamas media becoming a bastion of racist kahaneism.
Forcibly removing civilians from any piece of land is considered a war crime under geneva convention and other international agreements that israel has signed. and since you doubtlessly could not care less about this, let me also note that many jews, mindful of their history of being forcibly expelled from countries where they lived, find the idea of “transfer” to be utterly reprehensible.
Thus, supporters of Israel who reject transfer are left with only two other options: vindicate Jimmy Carter by encouraging Israel to become an apartheid state, with a Jewish minority ruling over an Arab majority without political rights; or else divide up the land into two more-or-less ethnically pure states. I support the latter.
By the way, Elsass-Lothingren, Sudetenland, Danzig, the Polish Corridor and Memel ought to have been made a part of Germany at Versailles in 1919. Would have done much to forstall the rise of that Austrian corporal.
A crime was indeed committed against Gaza’s Jews. 10,000 Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza from land that NEVER belonged to Arabs, for the sole reason Jews did not follow the religious/political system of Islam. Forced into poverty, many Jews had to live in tents for a long time.
Muslims celebrated by desecrating and destroying Gaza synagogues. UN leaders and other Jew-haters rejoiced. The Jew cleansed land was transformed into rocket firing sites into Israeli towns and cities. Delighted with the terrorist success of Gaza, the US/EU/UK/UN want to duplicate that same success with Biblical Judea, Samaria and half of Jerusalem. Hundreds of thousands of PEACEFUL Jews FORCIBLY ethnically cleansed for the sole reason they are not Muslim.
A massive crime against humanity. How utterly evil and a most frightening precedent for the rest of the world’s non-Muslims. There are MANY areas in the world that Muslims claim belong to them.
There has never been a Palestinian State, there has always been Israel.
The people who trifle with this are offending the Person who gave it to the Jews.
carter,
that “person” who gave that fairly mediocre piece of land — severely lacking in water and natural resources — to the Jews is as fictitious as the wizard of Oz, and as the god that Muslims pray to in Mecca. And even if I’m wrong about this, why should any secular government be bound by what it says in some holy book, or what some group of believers with guns happen to believe? you sound like quite a philo-Semite, go back and read one of the Jews that I admire, Spinoza. “Theologico-political treatise” is his work on the necessity of separating God’s law from man’s law. Render unto ceasar what is ceasar’s, and unto God what is God’s. Don’t mix the two. And especially don’t ask non-believers to live under the thumb of your jealous, malevolent, tinpot dictator of a god.
I am not afraid to indite many parts of the Qur’an. This book, along with other Islamic texts, is at the root of the Muslim Arabs hate for Jews and Israel. If more Muslims followed the peaceful and tolerant teachings, the situation would be much improved. The turmoil and rebellion we see today in Islamic states reflects a battle between Muslims who want to join the free world, and those who want 7th century Sharia government and Jew-hate to continue.
I like most of the modern Muslims I know and meet. In Michigan, that can be quite a few, depending on where you live or visit. Most are regular freedom-loving Americans. Tolerant. Respectful. Neighborly. If half a billion more Muslims worldwide conducted themselves this way, transforming their governments in like fashion, what a different world this would be. Is this just a dream?
Rise up, Muslims! On with the rebellions! The fundamentalists are in disarray on many fronts! We will embrace you in your efforts, openly or covertly!
A made up country called Jordan is ruled by a made up dynasty from Saudi Arabia and a country that isn’t even in the made up stage has as their greatest hero, Yassir Arafat, some guy from Cairo. No problem when it comes to the “right of return” indigenes-non-indigenes there.
This isn’t about an ethnic claim to land but just a claim to land which the muslims lost. Muslims have an ethnic interchangeability just as long as they’re muslim which is the real issue, not ethnicity or thousand year old claims to land. What giant claim to Jordan’s throne does a Hashemite have?
Ironically, the biggest stumbling block to a Palestinin State other than the Palestinian Arabs decision to go to war was Jordan and not Israel. Israel didn’t become involved in that until 20 years later when they seized the West Bank because of who? What a surprise – Jordan the fake country with a fake king.
The Palestinian Arab history of this entire conflict and their “rights” is one big delusion. The Hashemite rulers of Jordan have no legitimacy what so ever and the only “native” claim they have to rule over that land is the same gun that put them there and which created Israel. No guns, no rights. No surrender to guns, no life. Israel was created the same way the rest of the middle east was. Israel’s big crime is that they’re not muslim. I would argue that by the principles of “Zionism”, Saudi Arabia encapsulates that ideal more so than Israel.
Delusion, perception and hypocrisy. It’s all just a mental case of a game which translates to, “I’m keeping what I got.” In the case of the Palestinian Arabs it amounts to, “I want what I couldn’t keep.” Hey, country is as country does. There is no nation called “Shoulda”.
Your question,”what moral or pragmatic purpose can be served by adding the current Gaza and West Bank regimes to the calamitous realm of Arab sovereignty?” can be answered by stating that a Palestinian State would allow a loyal 0bama to repay Rashid Khalidi (Palestinian State agent, 0bama Harvard patron [along with the PLO], friend and mentor).