The Positive Side of the Ground Zero Mosque
Yesterday, a New York City panel paved the way for the building of the controversial “9/11 mosque” near Ground Zero. While vexing to many, there is one unintended consequence to this entire affair that deserves noting: like the 9/11 strikes a decade earlier, the controversy surrounding the 9/11 mosque has also been creating a stir, been making people think and talk — about Islam.
Consider: Before the Islamist strikes of 9/11, mainstream America was incognizant of the threat posed by radical Islam. Islamic apologetics and anti-U.S. polemics were unquestioned orthodoxy, not only in their natural habitat — academia — but more generally. After 9/11, however, the veil was partially lifted: a flood of books dealing with Islam, political Islam, jihad, sharia, “dhimmitude,” and any number of related topics appeared; politically incorrect books on Islam became bestsellers. The media began at least to acknowledge the existence of radical Islam; biased and politicized academics were exposed and refuted.
In other words, one unintended consequence of 9/11 was to make more Americans take note of Islam — which led to greater scrutiny of its formerly esoteric epistemology. After 9/11, it was no longer a few aging Orientalists who knew, for instance, that military jihad is obligatory in Islam, or that enmity for the infidel is standard, or that women and dhimmis are subjugated. The layman — the heart of democracy — began to be aware.
Thus, the 9/11 strikes were counterproductive to the Islamist cause. All Islamists, of course, desire what jihadist groups like al-Qaeda desire — the reestablishment of a global caliphate and enforcement of sharia law. But unlike al-Qaeda, most mature Islamists know that the time is not ripe for all-out violence, which only exposes their activities to greater scrutiny. In fact, Islamists have long found it more expedient to “destroy Western civilization from within,” necessitating projects such as the Middle East Forum’s Islamist Watch, which monitors and exposes subversive, nonviolent Islamist machinations on U.S. soil.
It is, however, ironic to note that, if an unintended consequence of 9/11 was to expose Islam to scrutiny, one decade later, the unintended consequence of the 9/11 mosque is the same. Since it became known, the mosque project has been reported by all mainstream media, including CBS, CNN, Examiner.com, Fox News, Al Jazeera, the NY Daily News, the New York Times, Reuters, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, and the Washington Times.
Prominent political personalities, such as former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and 2008 Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, have also publicized the matter — the former arguing that the mosque project is part of “an Islamist cultural-political offensive designed to undermine and destroy our civilization,” the latter calling it an “unnecessary provocation; it stabs hearts.” The National Republican Trust produced an ad saying the 9/11 mosque constitutes “an invitation for more” strikes like 9/11. Most recently, the Anti-Defamation League asserted that “the building of an Islamic Center at this location [near Ground Zero] is counterproductive to the healing process.”
The inevitable result of all this media attention is precisely what Islamists seek to avoid — unwanted attention — as Americans, once again, take notice, think, and talk about dormant issues.
And while the main issue at stake (whether or not the 9/11 mosque should be built) has little to do with exposing Muslim doctrines or Islamist ideologies per se, consider: the more the controversy is discussed in the media, the more those unfamiliar with the larger issues begin to wonder what all the ruckus is about. A stray word lingers in the mind — perhaps “jihad” or “sharia” or “political Islam.” People begin to investigate some more, and learn some more; some become better informed of the Islamist threat, which they go on to discuss with friends and family. A cycle begins.
In short, it took jihadist violence on 9/11 to alert Americans to the threat of radical Islam. Many Islamists learned their lesson and joined their less conspicuous brethren working beneath the radar, via subversive means. The lesson of the 9/11 mosque, however, is that, so long as Islamists rock the boat and bring attention to themselves — even through nonviolent means — so long will they risk exposing themselves.
And if the 9/11 mosque is actually built, based on the amount of controversy it has already generated, there is reason to believe that it will be a permanent source of attention, provocation, and scrutiny — that is, a permanent source of exposure for the Islamist movement.
Finally, it should be observed that, while the stir being caused by the 9/11 mosque is nowhere near as far-reaching or consequential as that caused by the 9/11 strikes, it is proportionate: for just as subversive Islamists work bit by bit, so too does every bit of unwanted attention work against them.
The Wall Street Journal scooped everyone with their interview of Daisy Kahn, while her husband and partner Imam Rauf is unreachable in Malaysia. The project seems to still be evolving.
Another immediate outcome: Malaysia’s Dr. Mahathir Mohamed, perdana4peace.org which is primarily devoted to “breaking Israel’s siege of Gaza” – Oops, they totally redesigned their website since July 31, and there is no longer any direct link from the new homepage to Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf’s own page, which there was on July 31: http://www.perdana4peace.org/agenda.aspx?x=3.
Imam Rauf may indeed be as deeply committed to ending war as Congressman Dennis Kucinich. I am not as concerned about Rauf being a secret Wahhabi promoting terrorism as him being a ‘useful idiot’ for the far left’s assault on Israel, and possibly believing in the myth of “Zionist control” propagated by the Protocols. The last thing New York City needs is a high-profile Imam teaching this to Muslims (previously indifferent to the Jews) who then create even more strife due to NYC’s very large Jewish population. Somewhat ironic that NYC’s Catholics (and Hindus) seem to be the most upset over Cordoba House, so far.
Let’s put it this way: you may not be at war with Mohammedanism, but Mohammedanism is sure as hell at war with you. And has been for 1300 uninterrupted years. Unfortunately, at the moment we (Christians) finally had victory in our hands, we lost our faith and our way. Attaturk was our kind of guy. No worries; he’ll keep those rag-heads in line for us. Being right for 90 years is a different thing from being right. Funny, when my people were being bombed into the stone age in WW II, I don’t recall anybody worrying about how we could tell which Germans were Nazis and which weren’t. We bombed the crap out of any civilians we could find, and countless irreplaceable European art works and cultural artifacts to boot. You can make your own calculation of the comparable worth of Central Europeans and their culture compared to the various Mohammedan cultures (I’d trade every Moslem on earth for Mozart to have lived another 30 years). As long as you admit that the choice is being made right now, by you or for you.
Malaysia’s ‘Dr.’ Mahathir Mohamed is the rabidly antisemitic nutjob former prime minister of Malaysia who, in a speech several years ago, railed against the Jewish people for introducing to the world the concept of morality and one God, and making them the core of Judaism.
This mosque is an affront, and the mere fact of its proposed existence is sufficient evidence of its true purpose – dhimmitude for New York and the USA courtesy of the conquering horde.
The building of this mosque should be a source of national shame for your great country. Islamists must be laughing their socks (sandals?) off at all of this. They see the controversy surrounding the mosque – they see the recognition by US citizens that this is not something they particularly want and yet….it gets the “go ahead” to be built anyway!!
Some people might think that this makes the US “the bigger person” in the struggle against radical Islam but they are wrong. It makes the US look weak if the majority are unable to stand up to a few lobbyists and PC twits who are no doubt pocketing a sack of cash in this whole process. This is not a recipe to dissuade your enemy.
If the people who are letting this happen are so keen to see “moderate” Islam being shown to be compatible with Western civilisation then how about we start seeing the blueprints for a nice new Christian chapel in Mecca?
Pathetic.
You are so right. anything that gets john q public to read anything about radical islam is a good idea. building that mosque will have the eastern world laughing at us, we will indeed appear weak. the idea that this center devoted to religion, a religion that tells its followers to kill those it cannot convert is absurd, why not just take down all memorials to 9/11 workers and those who were killed, say they died for nothing. Americans, stand up for once, get out from behind your cell phones and your tv’s and hit the streets, ENOUGH ! PC CRAP, lets stand up for our country.
Mayor Bloomberg was whining about “Freedom of Religion” in America as are many other progressives. What they either do not know or refuse to think about is threat Islam is not just a religion but a complete societal regimen that CONTROLS its members from birth to death. It has its own laws that must be followed with the potential sentence of death if not followed. It has social laws for its members that allows vaginal mutilation of its female members and forced marriages of very young girls to very old men. It has rules that can be used to defeat western laws and customs such as lying about your depth of faith and any other issue that will give Islam a step upward in its battle for dominance. It covers family rules and allows honor killing if children do not follow their father’s wishes. Recently one Imam ruled that the burqa does not have to be worn if the government outlaws it. According to Islam’s own laws this is an example of feigning surrender to a gov until they gain enough political power to reverse this decision. Throughout Europe Islam is growing at an alarming rate and within a few years it will be the dominate voting group. Then all of these play nice rules will be rescinded so that the ugly face of Islam can truly be seen. They are not a religion!
So True!
Excellent comment.
That’s all nice and dandy but at the end of the day they won we lost.
What makes you think they can’t keep winning?
My prediction is the cordoba mosque will be bombed when noone is in it by radical patirots.
I know you can’t say that, but I can, because I don’t work for PAJAMAS-MEDIA.
I also don’t work for Pajamas Media and it is my sincere wish that this mosque never stand….and I support whatever means necessary for that outcome.
So then you support terrorism. Nice. Can we at least wait until the leaders or congregation of said mosque do something nasty or illegal before we get all gung ho about blowing up a place of worship? Or do we need to just blow it the hell up now just in case? Tell me, what’s the difference between you and Bin Laden?
I suggest they build it in Harlem!
Beautiful!
I wouldnt be surprised if such an occurence happened. After thousands of Americans killed by Islam on 9/11, I beleive thats called redemption. There are more than emough mosques already in the NY metro area.
First, I do not understand how people can confuse a small radical portion of a religion with the entirety. Your prediction would be the only real victory for radical Islam and a loss for everyone. You would become the thing you profess to dislike, a fundamentalist terrorist. Allowing the center to be built is the only way of upholding true American Values. Why would we want to become the thing we are fighting against. How many of you have actually read the Koran or interacted with Muslims. I have had many interactions with Muslims, and none of them were fundamentalist.
“Why would we want to become the thing we are fighting against?” Well Brian, that’s the whole point. We ARE refusing to become like them. There are those of us who recognize the threat and refuse to submit. Growing numbers recognize what this opponent’s creed has to offer unsuspecting tolerant nimwits. . .submission or dhimmitude or death . . .choosing to fight rather than surrender and contemplate a difficult demeaning life or death.
@ZAC
Patriots, yes. Radical? No.
Saudi Arabian money will be needed to underwrite the cost of arson insurance on this abomination.
I’ve got this hunch the FDNY might be slow in response to reports of “fire” located at 45 Park Place.
Want to know the truth about islam? The only reason the 9-11 mosque is going to be located two blocks from Ground Zero is because they couldn’t but any land closer to GZ.
This mosque will not stand long if it is built. My prediction is vengeance of a sorts will be brought to bear. Much as the islamists used our most advanced commercially available transport system against us, ramming jet liners into buildings, some radical American will use the muslim worlds most advanced commercially available transportation system against them and ram a camel covered in fuel cans into the front door of the mosque.
Just a prediction.
It would be fairly simple to stop its construction: dump a couple of thousand of gallons of pork lard into the existing building.
Brilliant! Really.
Nice idea. However for a more widespread dispersal of contaminants, turn loose a few pigs with cuts to run around and ‘share the wealth’.
Perhaps, in the interim, a pushcart selling B-B-Q out front?
Yes, and dogs – Muslims can’t allow a dog to touch them….
A few thousand bags of Pork Rinds scattered about the area would be a cheap way of putting a stop to it also!
I totally share your view but have to tell you I could not maintain the serious composure required given the metaphor of the camel. Best laugh I’ve had so far today. Thanks.
Debate – Fine!. Mosque – NO!!
I have great respect for the opinions of Raymond Ibrahim. However, I think he is being a little overly optimistic about our ability to fully recognize the threat we face from relentles Islamic stealth jihad and taqiyya. Whever I see some talking head on TV interviewing a Muslim activist or apologist I keep hoping for some sign that the interviewer is up to speed on the issue. But more often than not I find myself disappointed by the hosts inane questions and inability to recognize taqiyya when they hear it.
Thanks, Mr. Ibrahim, for your work. You are right in saying that 9/11 was a game changing event as far as it let to more and more people to learn about Islam and its ultimate goals. The sad is that it also makes evident the big divide that exists between public opinion and the politicians and government officials. Should things get even worse before then get better? How worse?
Now, the World Trade Center Mosque will be catalist provided the news keep pouring. I wonder if MSM will just ignore it from now on.
There are many things that can still be done at this point. Such as peaceful non cooperation.
American workers can refuse to build it,sell the supplies, sell them food, just refuse to
do business in any way that would move the completion of the mosque forward.
Maybe we could get the unions involved in the project. The government can behave
like a bunch of political prostitutes but the citizenry doesn’t have to.
For example, what if they could not get any lumber or steel or concrete delivered?
Would be pretty cool.
Good luck. That would be like asking the citizenry not to hire illegals.
I am appalled that this is even being discussed, much less actually given a go-ahead. Saw a man on tv, a muslim, in a short exchange with someone about it, and he actually smiled and talked about how Americans believed in freedom of religion. They are using our own tools against us, and it must not continue. What do we want America to be like for our grandchildren and great-grandchildren? Do you want the daughters of the family to be garbed up and threatened with stoning if the husband decides to get rid of her? People need to wise up, this is not a game.
What kind of an uproar would there be if the families of Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols and their friends sued to build a memorial to the convicted bombers at the Murrah Building site in Oklahoma City?
Why is this mosque any different?
Islam has frequently taken sites sacred to other civilizations and religions and turned them into Muslim edifices, sometimes even off limits to the previous residents and worshippers.
I’ve read that this is also part of the Cordoba project (9/11 mosque plan).
There will not be one person left on earth who will not witness this drama and be able to hide behind ignorance to explain how the deceiver and murderer was able to lurch it’s way into humankind, deceit, murder, hatred and desolation the mark it leaves behind as it moves from one land to another.
This enmity I feel toward the lovers of Mohammad and his God Allah courses through my veins as if it is in my DNA. New York would be a foreign country to me and would be the same as if the Nazi Party or the KKK set up their headquarters in that city. The earth has become a playground for those lovers of death, life nothing but a brief pause, corruption celebrated, oppression and suppression held in esteem.
Islam leaves a bad taste in my mouth, bitter and unpalatable, a heavy burden, it’s yoke weighing down all the earth.
We see while the powerful are blind.
My sentiments exactly. Show no fear, throw their own intolerance and racism back in their faces, repudiate them at all times and humiliate them when necessary. That is the only language that can be used with these barbarians. They are not of this century, not of this planet.
It has been nine years since radical Islam officially declared war on the United States. And we memorialize that day with a large hole in the ground. A national disgrace. To permit these people to erect a mosque at this site with tainted moneys from our enemies is an obscenity.
I wonder if the ground zero mosque will conduct a marriage ceremony for a muslim woman and a non-muslim man ? I wish someone could pin down Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf about whether the mosque will be bigoted towards non-muslims in this regard. If he answers the question honestly on video, the “community center” won’t be built.
Miller wondered what the Imam would do if asked to marry same-sex couple?
Who gets to write the history book…
…US?
or THEM?
?
!
Reminiscent of how we quietly ignored Japan’s preparations for war in 1941. This is a distraction.
Not that we would do such a thing, but this mosque is equivalent to our constructing an “American Cultural Center” at Ground Zero at Hiroshima. Whenever the Muslims conquer an area, they put a mosque at the holiest site that they can find: the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount, the mosque in Cordoba.
Hardy unique to Muslims. European conquerors planted churches on top of native American temples.
It’s a sad fact of human conquest that the previous culture’s sanctities are stomped on by the new.
I would say that it would be more like the Japanese building a Shinto shrine at Pearl Harbor.
The Construction workers, builders, everone… should REFUSE to work on this building… or the PEOPLE should tear DOWN every night, any thing erected during the day… or submit to ISLAM and convert… otherwise these people will KILL us all because we are infidels.
What are we? Stupid? Just look at Europe! With their open liberal mindedness, accepting everyone into their countries, they are now in a hole they can’t get out of. While the muslims are taking over, Europeans are scrambling for ways to remove minarets, head coverings, etc.. This will inevitably happen to us as well if we, Americans don’t wise up. Enough is enough! If those behind this center/mosque were so interested in peaceful, interfaith understanding, etc., they would take their center somewhere else so as not to offend anyone. But clearly, this will spell out V-I-C-T-O-R-Y to all muslims around the world and will show them how weak we are. Muslims don’t understand or speak the language of freedom and justice like the rest of the world does! This is what America still doesn’t get!
Let’s get our facts straight…..
This is not an ‘Islamic Cultural Center’. This is The Mosque of the 19 Martyrs.
Islam is not a ‘Religion of Peace’. Islam is a religion of totalitarian subjugation and conquest.
This is not a ‘War on Terror’. It is a ‘War of Terror’.
It is not us against them. It is them against us – Dar al-Islam against Dar al-Harb. Islam against the rest of us.
Like Thailand, the Philippines, Nigeria, Israel, Sudan, Somalia, Uganda, Tanzania, Kenya, France, Russia, China, Spain, London, and Bali, New York is just another front in this war.
It is nothing less than THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR.
THE ISLAMIC WORLD WAR – it’s real.
~ The Infidel Alliance
TAX THE MOSQUES!
Think it can’t be done? Read on:
***************
Religious Tax Exemptions vs. Government Policies
Most people are aware that a church or religious organization can lose their tax exempt status for engaging in partisan political activity, like endorsing a political candidate. What many aren’t aware of, though, is that the same can happen for promoting or engaging in things contrary to government policy. Tax exemption is a privilege, not a right.
Tax Exempt Churches: Religious Freedom vs Tax Exemptions & Tax Deductions
***********
Islam totally rejects the separation of church and state. What could be more “contrary” to government policy than that?
As long as the media portray any opposition to islam as racist, seeing it is not the same as defeating it. As long as they keep spewing the falsehood of moderate islam or that only a few are misinterpreting islam, none of this scrutiny will matter. We will be told there are evil people in other religions as well and the deflection will start and all who oppose islam will be branded racist. Sharia is already up and running in some states in the US under the guise of being part of their culture instead of thier religion so thoses who have their head in the sand can continue to justify and redefine their dhimmitude.
This mosque has everyone talking about islam all right, particularly how a people who have received so much American assistance and aid over the years can be so disrepectful as to attack us for no reason. For example, how many times have we been the first to arrive when an earthquake devastates a muslim country? We give no thought to the religious beliefs of those whom we help, we merely see other humans in need.
Contrast this with the muslims who refuse to pray for someone who isn’t muslim. Even a kind thought toward an infidel is prohibited. You won’t find such heartlessness in Christianity, yet we are the bad guys?
I predict that this mosque will never be constructed. America has had enough of bowing down to our enemies and are quite correct to say “No” to this affront to those who died on 9-11. If you don’t like it, so what? You are free to leave our country and go somewhere that is more to your liking.
I say we surround it with srtip clubs, liquor stores and bbq joints.
good thought, but if you read the notes of the last few days of the 9/11 pilots, that is basically where they spent their time.
Dieing in jihad (including suicide) wipes out all those sins and guarantees you direct route to “Heaven” and the virgins promised by the pervert Mohammed.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/
The reality is that we are a nation of laws and the US Consitution. It does not mean it is always convnient or popular to provide forums for persons who actually deride these freedoms, but it is what we do. However, if we are forced to endure a mosque at ground zero then as the author indicates we should use it to our advantage. Since it is supposed to be a public building with public access then we are entitled to know where the funding comes from, what is preached from the pulpit, and who is a member or not a member.We are entitled to challenge their philosophies and thought processes whether they like it or not. For too long we have allowed those with evil intentions to moderate the dialogue about radical islam, it is time to take back that discussion.It is time to stop political correctness from destroying this nation. Time to call an islamo-fascist an islamo-fascist and call them out on their anti-democratic actions, racism, anti-semitism, mysogyny and vast human rights violations.
Yeah, you’d think so. But so far, there’s been no serious look into where the funding is coming from for the latest Terrorist Training Center, and it won’t happen.
What a shining star to the victory of jihadist Islam this abomination will be.
And it will be built. No doubt about that.
What fools we are.
In the east, free love means getting stoned.
In the west, free love means getting stoned.
The mosque is an example of your own petro-dollars buying polititicos and bureaucrats while the Saudis laugh at us. Now if a bushel of wheat traded for a barrel of oil, maybe things would be different.
We saved europe several times from tyrany in the 20th century. Now some say that the liberal, progressive, socialists have already lost it again. Europe is being islamified. I wonder if the New World Order powerbrokers, the club that owns everything, will sit back and have a good laugh about this mosque with King Faisal.
I strongly oppose building a mosque on this site, AND any other type of religious building.
Religion doesn’t do anything but create wars and rifts among the human race.
Need one example? 9/11
People “create wars and rifts among the human race” and they often subvert religion to further their own aims. Don’t for a moment think that the world would have less violence without religion. Human nature is what it is. Religion and education dampen the firey beast that has always struggled to break free in human history.
Except Islam. Read the Koran and the writing of the imams and you will see that it is based on and requires conquest of the world and subjugation of women.
In the name of what religion did the USSR kill millions of its own people?
In the name of what religion did North Korea invade South Korea?
You change the world with little steps. This is just one more step for radical Islam. If built they will have one another important battle against the west.
I bet the mosque will be built before the 9/11 memorial – that seems to say it all -
The inevitable result of all this media attention is precisely what Islamists seek to avoid — unwanted attention — as Americans, once again, take notice, think, and talk about dormant issues.
Since 911, Islam has never become “dormant” in my mind.
I refuse to see any upside whatsoever to the existence of a mosque/Islamic center in lower Manhattan. Swimming pool, outreach programs, community center, whatever the place touts itself as being.
Isn’t the northeast already crawling with mosques anyway, official and unofficial ?
Despite all the words thrown at it, all the alleged “debate”, such a structure at such a place would be a coup for the perpetrators of 911.
An abomination.
Mayor Bloomberg is an idiot.
@ 27
“Mayor Bloomberg is an idiot.”
In a sense, yes, but he’s more, and worse. He is a twisted soul who relishes the harm he’s doing.
Islam is a wicked ideology. Muhammad commands those who follow to commit evil acts against their fellow man in the name of Islam. All one has to do to understand this is to read the Koran, while understanding the concept of abrogation, the Hadiths and Sirah. All the hate is there for everybody to see.
Unfortunately, 90% of Americans are totally ignorant of what Islam teaches and still are mired in fictitious nonsense like “radical Islam”, “Islamofacism”, “Islamists” and on and on. ISLAM is at war with us, along with and meaning all those who follow the evil Muhammad.
Islam is mainly a political philosophy with some religious aspects mixed in which is why Hitler and other Nazis admired it and found it so attractive. They didn’t have some despicable deity like Allah to motivate their masses.
Anybody who is caught trying to implement Islam’s main tenants, jihad and the imposition of Sharia law, should be deported. They shouldn’t even be here in the first place which is why we should end all Muslim immigration. They, Muslims, do not belong here because they are our enemies. If someone addresses the threat of Islam without mentioning their LEGAL invasion of our country though our insane immigration policies should NOT be taken seriously.
Islam will not be at war with us for decades and its foolish to think so like some of our PC general generals and politicians like to say. Islam will be at war with us and all of mankind for all eternity as John Quincy Adams so eloquently stated.
This evil ideology has to be destroyed as it is bent upon destroying us and the rest of the humanity. Our MSM and politicians are total idiots, they have no idea what they are promoting in this country would eventually lead to destruction of our civilization. What more evidence of Islam/Muslim’s evil nature does one need. The history of last 1400 year’s is ample evidence of Islam follower’s evil, atrocious, murderous, bloodletting behavior and yet we are ignoring all this and hoping for some fictitious non-existing moderate Islam to emerge.
Islam/Muslim’s murderous ways will continue until we face the truth and deal with them by fighting back!!!
Ibrahim: “one unintended consequence of 9/11 was to make more Americans take note of Islam”
The attacks of 9/11 opened the eyes of even a few of us who were “in the business to know”. In the 1970s I was studying international and middle east politics. Yet Islam was rarely considered a factor. I even helped teach a course on the Arab-Israeli conflict and, I’m ashamed to admit, the only time Islam came up was when we mentioned those countries like Turkey and Iran who were “Muslim, but not Arab”.
A lot, of course, has changed since then: the oil crises which provided the funding to spread Islamic fundamentalism far beyond the region; the Islamic revolution in Iran; the Islamic response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan; the massive migration of Muslims into the west; the emergence of the Islamic bloc in the UN; and so on. But at least a few of us are starting to see what we missed for so long.
But I’m not as optimistic about this new realization that there’s “something not right here”. On the one hand, the appeasement continues; indeed, it’s getting stronger, as when an organization like NASA is tasked with outreach toward the Muslim world. And there’s an increasing sense that things are only getting worse, and that our leaders will do nothing to arrest the process. Note, for example, that Muslim immigration into the US *increased* after 9/11, and that Muslims comprise an increasing portion of those granted asylum here.
America’s quasi-elected (yeah, you read me right)leaders are throwing open the gates of the city to the barbarians in hopes they will be spared from the carnage for doing so. Any Nimrod who has a scintilla of historical knowledge will understand what a bad idea this is. In my opinion Bloomberg is excited about this because he’s probably getting a large personal payout, and the cash strapped city (a result of liberalism) is desperately desiring not only the tax revenue, but the commercial revenue that will likely come from pilgrimages by Muslims living in America; I don’t call them American Muslims because Islam is incomparable with America’s Republic roots. So the unquenchable greed of New York’s elite is likely the driving factor.
It is a win-win for the Islamic fascist. Either they have a US based Mecca that not only represents their mushroom stamping of the New York skyline, but is a de facto madrasah for training more dissidents to go forth into our nation to carry out a twenty-first century version of Manifest Destiny. Or, if some angry Americans finally break and damage it in any way, they have their own 9-11 battle cry to incite the self made sleeper cells that have no ties other than a fanatical belief in an Islamic Caliphate. This is so apropos that its happening in New York. After all, for decades now, liberal madrasahs like NYU have been sending brain-washed lawyers around the nation to subvert our way of life through groups like the ACLU and the People for the American Way. So why not now have the radical Islamics doing likewise.
I fear I won’t live to see the resurgence of Western society, wherever it may happen on the globe.
When the wise man points to the moon, the imbecile looks at the finger.
I’m sorry, but I take no comfort in your essay. The mosque will be built, and I am not optimistic enough to believe that there will be any scrutiny whatsoever regarding what will be taught within its walls or who will fund its programs. Color me disgusted, ashamed, and too poor to travel to NYC to protest.
The greater scrutiny will pass, the mosque will be permanent. A big win for our enemy, Islam.
I think the you’re right Raymond. In fact, I think this should and will make many of us question the oft repeated notion that we are not at war with Islam. Well, as you note in your article, Islam is, inherently, doctrinally, at war with all infidels and seeks nothing short of world dominance. This was a common feature of many religions long ago. That faded from most religions, and America stood as a symbol for freedom of religion and the notion that freedom necessitates a secular goverment. There has been much debate about the meaning of the words “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” I believe that it means that there are areas where government cannot go. At a miimum, government ought never tell us what to believe about religion (or about anything else, but let’s focus on religion for right now). Conversely, it means that there are areas where religion cannot go. At a minimum, religion should not be an excuse to commit crimes. Religion should never be a reason to exempt or excuse anyone from any misconduct. The momment we start thinking there is a case for an exemption or excuse from some law based on religion, we should immediately realize that governement has exceeded its proper sphere and seek to pear it back for the benefit of all, not just carve out an exemption for those who oppose it on religious grounds. So, here is the question, when a religion has as a core belief that believers should seek to overthrow freedom in America (to whatever extent we still have some of it), and everywhere else for that matter, why is that not recognized as a conspiracy to commit treason and sedition? Why do we automatically assume that such things are protected by our Constitution just because it is supposedly in the name of some deity? If another group professed the same goals but did not purport to be sent from heaven, would we hesitate for a second to arrest and prosecute them? What would be their defense? Why should it be different because they say god wants them to do it? Don’t we have any number of psychopaths in prison who claimed god told them to do it? We do need to rethink a lot of our assumtpions and Raymond is 100% right that the 9/11 mosque is awakening our minds to these questions, which, hopefully, will be counterproductive to their schemes for world domination.
americans,will only learn from history,when they actually learn history,and suffered enough,from the lies told, by those who have always been sympathetic,or activist for,or on behalf of evil.from the revisionist historical lies told,from the early crusades;the true rightful heirs,of israel,jeruselem,and the golden dome of the rock;”the jewish people’s promise land;islam never even existed,until over 600 years,after the crucifixion of jesus christ;how then can islam take claim,to what god authorized through moses even centuries before the birth of jesus christ who reaffirmed gods promise to abraham,jacob,issac, and moses; the revolutionary war,the indian removal act; the civil war, ww1,ww2 korean war, the voters rights,for women civil/equal rights,for all; illegal/lawless immigration,iraq,afghanistan,cold war,dictatorships,involuntary servitude,government enforced,indoctrination, education,marxist communist,abortion and pedophile educators.all these lucifer inspired,century’s old,appeasers,and activist,who are worshippers of death,destruction,slavery,and inequality,and enemies of human life,human liberty,equality,truth,,and justice for all;lucifers law;to be exalted above god,humanity,and law,who will ally themselves to any and all evil,believing it will exalt themselves superior over others,in american history,their has always been,but one political force,that has consistantly sided with evil;the democrat party base;progressive liberalism; and one political force that has always stood on the side of good,over evil;right over wrong;life,and liberty,over death,and destruction,and that is the true god fearing,bible believing,gun totin’american lovin’conservative wing of the republican party;it won’t matter what political party is in power though,as long as both parties are tained with progressive liberalism;or”lucifer’s law”america; you better start learning the truth about history,because we are under assualt,by the masters of deception,who are gathering all the forces of evil in the world,now;against us,condemning us;to repeat history;because we allowed evil to flourish,in this generation,against the constant warnings sent by those who sacrificed for us;the good news is;in the end they lose;but they do finally have one of their lies come true that is;”global warming”the eternal lake of fire;”
What good does scrutiny do for a ruling class temperamentally and philosophically unable to resist our enemies?
1. When the bids go out for construction of this “Victory Mosque” it will be very interesting to see if the construction Unions will bid on this work. These same workers are not to shy to wave the American flag at times like this but when it comes to work, will they cave in and build this Victory Mosque?
2. If, and I mean if this mosque gets built, the New York City planning commission should give the “go ahead” and push to build the New World Trade Center buildings #1 & #2 at least 1 foot higher than they were before they were attacked.
This piece is far too optimistic. The mosque is a travesty. Its purpose is declaration of victory and outpost for Islamic expansion. O’Reilly had Awad from CAIR on his program, the ‘conservative’ news network bowing down to Saudi shareholders. Bill promised to ‘take care of’ Pam Geller.
The economic interests of most Americans and Westerners, including those of people posting here, are tied to ‘good relations’ with the Saudis and others. As long as the political system fails to address the energy crisis and implements actual constraints on enriching those who support terror, much of what is written in places goes nowhere. People may be aggravated about terror, but they are paying for it. And the ‘elites’ remain ‘in bed’ with some of the world’s most powerful supporters of Jihad.
Your analysis is correct.
The elites have already sold Europe, where the fight for the survival of a Western civilization will become tragic in the next fifty years, and are in the process of selling America.
The stupidity of the circles of power is extraordinary: they think they will survive to the worldwide push of islam. Instead probably only Russia, China, and India have the ferocious determination, and the population numbers, needed to keep the islamic conquerors at bay.
The anti-christian elites are now allied with the marxist subversives in the West…only commoners could save the Republic.
But we hope in the Help of God Who Is Infinite Love.
My browser tells me to capitalize “islam”. And “marxist”. And “islamic”.
But not “christian”.
Foolish American scum, repeat after me: Allah Akbar, say it again, Allah Akbar, keep saying it as your country and it’s values go quickly off into the past, Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar, Allah Akbar.
Jeremiah 31: 35-36
Thus says the Lord, He who gives the sun to light the day, moon and stars to light the night; Who stirs up the sea till its waves roar, whose name is Lord of hosts: If ever these natural laws give way in spite of me, says the Lord, Then shall the race of Israel cease as a nation before me forever.
Isaiah 5: 21
Woe to those who are wise in their own sight, and prudent in their own esteem!
Isaiah 48: 12-13
Listen to me, Jacob, Israel, whom I named! I, it is I who am the first, and also the last am I. Yes, my hand laid the foundations of the earth; my right hand spread out the heavens.
Sirach 33: 14-15
As evil contrasts with good, and death with life, so are sinners in contrast with the just; see now all the works of the Most High: they come in pairs, the one the opposite of the other.
Sirach 34: 24
If one man prays and another curses, whose voice will the Lord hear?
Proverbs 8: 35-36
“For he who finds me (Wisdom) finds life, and wins favor from the Lord; But he who misses me harms himself; all who hate me love death.”
Genesis 1: 1-2
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters.
Genesis 1: 27
God created man in his image, in the divine image he created him; male and female, he created them.
Bin Laden: 9-11 Allah Akbar
Bill Perron,
So; you equate your Bin Laden to The Almighty God; and, you equate 9/11 to His magnificent creation. Really?!!!
You have made yourself blind and deaf to The Truth. Seek and you shall find your true Creator. Listen, and you will hear Him calling you. He is calling you, Bill; even now. All you need to do is answer Him. He is perfect patience and forgiving of the sincerely penitent.
You must begin with sincere humility and a healthy fear of the Lord. When you are converted you will then have something worth celebrating; not this hollow ‘victory’ of 9/11 that you and your fellow lost souls still celebrate.
Those who live pursuing God’s Wisdom articulate thoughtfully and respectfully. We do not chant mindlessly, as you demonstrated. Challenge yourself, Bill; you could surprise yourself.
Oliver, you crack me up. Obviously you have been so busy thumping your bible for way to long that you have actually lost all sense of perspective, get out of your bible and get into a dictionary and look up the meaning of sarcasm.
As much as I would prefer this mosque not be built, I believe Joe Scarborough is correct when he says it would be unconstitutional for a governmental entity to ban the building of a religious institution on private property.
That said, we could still resort to the following:
1) If – as has been stated – the purpose of building the mosque on the proposed site is “reconciliation,” then a fervent public request (in the NY Times???) should be presented to the mosque’s backers asking them to relocate it. The response to that request would be revealing.
2) Follow the money. I *think* if this a tax-exempt project, the government has a right to determine exactly where the funding comes from. Publish it, no matter what is found.
3) I love DicktheTruth’s idea in #18: Tax the mosques! It seems to me a group could file suit in federal court that Islam by its nature alone deprives it of tax-exempt privilege. And it should be possible to find all sorts of specific cases where Imams and other leaders have abused the privilege.
4) New Yorkers should swamp the “community center”. . . not to interrupt or cause damage. In fact, non-Muslims who dislike the idea of a mosque near ground zero should swamp mosques across America for the next few months to let Muslims know what it’s like to have people whose views are antithetical to your own “too close.”
Much as I twinge in sympathy for those who call for destroying or dismantling the mosque, I can’t condone it. We’re Americans. And I suspect that most of us who read Pajamas Media are Conservatives. We can’t promote the rule of law only for those things with which we agree. Muslims here should get the same rights as any American – but I still like the idea of bringing suit against them denying tax-exempt status.
New Yorkers are simply unfazed by Islamophobia (regurgitated mostly by those who don’t live there).
New York City will not be stopped. Not by terrorists and most certainly not by teabaggers.
While the Landmarks Commission may have been dealing with the narrow concerns of real estate history and architectural aesthetics, the cheers that erupted after the verdict sends a clear message to intolerant non-New Yorkers like Palin: If you don’t like it and you don’t like our religious tolerance, if you don’t like our racial diversity, if you don’t like what we build in our city, then don’t come here. In other words, get the $#%! out. Don’t come here. We don’t like your kind and don’t want you. But don’t think for one second that you can tell New Yorkers what they can and cannot build.
Don’t worry. I’m getting as far away from your sewer-hole, death wish city as I can. I don’t want to be killed when the nuke goes off in the Cordoba house. I won’t feel a bit of sympathy for anyone that stayed. I can only hope that in the centuries to come that New York is remember alongside Sodom and Gomorrah when we attempt to teach people what happens when debauchery knows no limits.
Your rant is truly pathetic. You people love the Constitution when it corresponds to your own desires and agenda. You hate it when it doesn’t. That’s when you bring out the bombs and the bullet threats. You reveal yourself and your ilk for the man-children that you are. If you don’t get your own way you yell, kick, scream, and bully and throw your toys (i.e. the Constitution) across the room. The Constitution has faced tougher enemies in the past. You are nothing. Long after you are dead and buried the Constitution will still be standing without a nick from your infantile scratching, kicking, and temper tantrums.
what would you know about the constitution? You hate it except when it dserves your communist desires to destroy America., punk.
Obviously you didn’t understand my meaning. So let me break it down for you in a way that even you can understand. I plan to never cross the George Washington bridge ever again because one day the Trojan Horse you are letting into your city will be ground zero for a nuclear detonation perpetrated by the very people you are courting. I don’t want to be anywhere near your rotting city when that happens. It isn’t that I’m threating anything. You are all free to run New York however you see fit, and you can suffer the consequences thusly. Just a couple months ago Time Square was nearly wiped out. Potentially thousands of people were killed. For whatever reason your debaucherous, amoral city is the number one target of the Islamic radicals at the moment, and you invite them to set headquarters there. What they, and you, don’t understand, is that you are irrelevant to the Republic. Destroying one city in America will not ruin us. Too many New Yorkers, like yourself if you are actually one of them, and not some empty headed troll (which is what I predict anyway) think the world can’t get along with New York. Wrong! Don’t come crying to the rest of us when you city is in shambles. We warned you.
Did everyone catch that? PRAETORIAN is AN INTOLERANT NEW YORKER!
Go back and read HIS words: “WE DON’T LIKE YOUR KIND, etc”.
I would laugh if this wasn’t such a serious matter. What a bigot.
Praetorian, one day your ignorance or stupidy (I can’t tell which it is with you) will have you whining to the guards “BUT I SUPPORTED YOU GUYS! I TOLD EVERYONE WE WERE THE SPECIAL PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE RULING THE LITTLE PEOPLE!”
Your grasp of the facts behind this story amazes me. What a shallow, simple person you are. (You are also a very mean-spirited person.)
You wouldn’t like New Yorkers coming to say, South Caroilina, and telling them where they can fly the confederate flag. So, what’s wrong with New Yorkers saying they don’t like teabaggers who don’t live in New York using their city as a soap box for their hate agenda? They just want you to go away. Constitutional protections are not for those individuals you like, they don’t need protecting. they are there for those you hate. The commission stood with the Constitution. Teabagging conservatives are a threat to that Constitution.
Praetorian -
Once again your words allow me to “rest my case”.
Well, fortunately for the rest of us, the theocratic nut jobs seem to direct most of their attacks against you. Enjoy your new mosque.
Well then maybe jerkoff, you will enjoy the likers of Imam rahf, Khalid Sheik Mohammead, Osama Bin Laden and most of Dearborn, Michigan moving to NYC and doing the same wonderful things theyve done for Detroit. You can even have such wonderful politicians such as Kwami Kilpatrick(oops-hes in JAIL) or even Mrs John Conyers(otherwise known as Monica) except that oops-shes in jail also. In the meantime, Bloomberger is doing his best to turn NYC into Saudi arabia, being a moslem dimmy(wimp) which is what moslems refer to the weak as. By the way-notice how close Dimmy is to dummy.
WOW !!!! Talk about intolerance, such blatant hypocrisy, surely you are a worthy child of Allah.
Pray Torn a New One is the Principal Liar sleazits Persons Galore.
Denial? No way. The Liar cannot refute its funhouse mirror.
Just another Cesspool Personality that has been around for awhile that gets used when the dominant personality can no longer post on PJM.
“Patrick” on another thread is one and the same. And notice how sleazits is history? Whimper, whimper, clang! Gone!
Note the use of the gay slur, the multiple posts, the cadence, the delivery, the lack of any political position, the disagreement with the most non-important of points, then pushing the disagreement to the level of raw sewage galore, the gratuitous mention of Palin, and now the Neo Constitutionalist position, claiming that others don’t abide while it cannot bring itself to simply stop lying about who it is.
You have no standing?
Praetorian
“It’s gonna be a rough eight-years for you people.”
May 19, 2010 – 4:57 pm
13. sleazits
“You people…”
June 5, 2010
This is what the Modern Liberal is. Mr. President is now so tanked that the outflow of rage has turned into Multiple Identities all desperately attempting to go an a boat trip with each other and “friends” –
108. sleazits
I have a date with a boat. Big one. Blue and white. Four or five friends finally free from their work-a-day week. (Poor bastards.) Tequila. Poker. Couple of hookers.
July 9, 2010 – 1:16 pm
Come on Pray Torn a New One, rap out a denial. Use a Michael Jackson backing track. Archives? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They Love You yeah, yeah, yeah.
Van Jones buy you a new Kick Me sign? Fits well, riveted to your ass. Clang.
Whatever.
#40 When last I checked, New York was still part of the United States of America. We all have an interest in this issue. And a say. Don’t believe it? Just watch!
Is your moronic NY-centric (or is it just Manhattan-centric?) drivel a smoke-screen for hirabah? Or merely the parrotting of a useful idiot?
I love New York and I am NO liberal. I love it for it’s unabashed capitalism, for it’s amazing energy, for it’s unique American history and symbolism, for all those who came seeking a better life and found it there. Those greedy and perfidious members of the Landmark Foundation, (whom I’m sure were paid generously for their vote) along with the idiot Mayor Bloomberg are to blame for this mosque, not the majority of New Yorkers who rallied and voted against it, and will hopefully continue to do so.
Cordoba House of whatever it’s new name is Might, just might be palatable if the building also contained an Catholic Church, Jewish Synagogue, a Mormon Temple and whatever the Wiccans call a place of worship. This won’t happen so I plan as an expression of free speech to drop bacon around this site. Bacon for Allah!
The argument put forth by Mr. Ibrahim is weak, and ultimately does nothing to stop the spread of Islam. Should it be built, it will forever be seen by Muslims, radical or otherwise, as indicative of the ‘strong horse’ in our faltering society. Meanwhile, progressives such as Mayor Bloomberg will use any specious rationalization to shove their totalitarian secular religion down everyone’s throats. They refuse to answer arguments directly, but instead attempt to obfuscate the issue with some overarching principle vaguely portrayed as ‘freedom of religion’. However, in logical discourse, you cannot appeal to an indirect, overarching principle if the direct issues inherent to the argument cannot first be refuted.
So here are the issues that truly apply…
- Progressives care nothing for freedom of religion; this is yet another thinly-disguised lie perpetrated by the left, whose real agenda is and always has been to attack and destroy traditionalist Christianity. Since Islam is also an enemy to both Christianity and Judaism, the left eagerly jumps into bed with Islam whenever it suits their purpose.
- The very essence of this nation is the Judeo-Christian ethos. Regardless of how progressives attempt to foist off their revisionist history, the uniqueness of America rests in the Declaration of Independence that provides in no uncertain terms the hierarchy of power and the origination of liberty, both of which are from God to the individual, and the individual to the state in expressly limited circumstances. The inevitable conclusion is that there never was any separation of state and faith, but instead there is separation only of the federal government and any specific religious denomination. Yes there should be prayer in public schools; yes the manger scene should be displayed in front of government buildings at Christmas time. Conservatives who shy away from these conclusions are not being true to their beliefs. Because of that inseparable component of Judeo-Christian faith and its government, the American people have every right to diminish other faiths, including where a mosque may be built. The allowance of mosques anywhere is an act of charity and noblesse-oblige by Christians, but they should never undermine their principles with essentially demopathic overtures such as allowing the Manhattan mosque to be built.
- While there may be such a thing as moderate Muslims, there is no moderate Islam. Since its inception, it has deliberately waged war against anything deemed not itself, especially Christianity. Until Islam changes the Koran, Sharia, and the Hadiths, it will continue to menace the rest of the world, and this society has every right to oppose it at every turn.
- The mosque itself is being built under false pretenses. The main Islamic cleric instigator behind the project is Feisal Abdul Rauf. He is nothing less than an apologist for terrorist Hamas, which he refuses to identify as terrorist. Of terrorism itself, he doesn’t even begin to reject it, saying instead “The issue of terrorism is a very complex question.” Of course he still manages to obliquely condemn the US for 911, saying “I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”
- Islam is putting up this mosque as a triumphalist affront to America. Any real American knows it… any anti-American also knows it and doesn’t care; any post-American is an unwitting stooge and useful idiot.
Progressives long ago proclaimed a culture war. Now their true opposition (certainly not the feckless, emasculated GOP) has finally awakened.
Progressives are reptiles, and Obama is the Lizard King.
Iman Rauf wrote some book in English about ‘peaceful” islam. Funny , when the book was firstt printed in Pakistan, it had a message of Islam conquering the world, which I label Islamic Supremacy. No different than Hitlers third reich.
Bingo! Your post should be in every newspaper in the country.
Id like to build a Hooters resturant next to this proposed mosque. On the other side an open pit Pork BBq. By the way, all the pork grease would drain into the “religion” of pieces water lines. By the way-when are you unions going to refuse to build the piping and carpentry? By the way Imam Rahf-my hooters girls would definitely NOT be wearing Burkhas, therefore showing moslem women there is hope outside of your phony Koran.
There could be something “positive” as a result of this McMosque being shoved down our throats. We could…follow Saul Alinsky and make them play by their own rules! It could be great to have the mosque become a Center for all sorts of Community Affairs, for instance. Youth meetings, drug counselings, AA meetings, ecumenical community affairs, you name it, it should evolve into another community outreach center where there are so many non Muslims frequently its portals that it’s original essence will diminish with time. Kill them with requests for TOLERANCE and COMMUNITY.
One last thing-PROLETARIAT-why do you use the COMMUNIST name if you are anything other than a commie pig?
The attempt by Muslims to build their Triumphalist “Cordoba” Mosque just a few blocks from the site of the Twin Towers is just the latest in a long line of basically un-resisted and, more ominously, unperceived Muslim advances and seizures of U.S. territory—both physical and psychological–just one theater in Muslim’s 1,400 year old “Grand Jihad” aiming to conquer and subjugate all unbelievers. Muslim Jihad attacks that started for the United States in the very first years of our founding, when the Muslim Barbary Pirates captured or destroyed our merchantmen, stole their cargoes, and sold their crews and passengers into slavery, and almost choked off the sea trade that was crucial for our young nation’s survival, and we paid them somewhere between 10% to 20% of our entire annual Federal budget each year for 20 years as protection money, “Jizya,” until our newly formed Navy and Marines were able to go to North Africa and spend 10 years destroying them and their bases. Back then in 1785 the pirate’s representative was forthright in stating their Qur’an based justification for their piracy, when he told John Adams and Thomas Jefferson that, despite our being a new nation that had not done anything to harm the Pirates:
“it was written in the Koran, that all Nations who should not have acknowledged their [Islam’s] authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon whoever they could find and to make Slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman [Muslim] who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
Today, alongside of the more violent Jihadis, a multitude of individual Muslims and Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan) front groups (CAIR among them, according to the indictment) in the U.S. are still very actively pursuing a campaign of disinformation and deliberate confusion, intent on our subversion, conquest and subjugation, working to bring about the triumph of Islam in the much more clandestine and subversive ways of “stealth” Jihad, but they did reveal their objective in a 1991 document captured by the FBI and entered into evidence—undisputed as to its authenticity or contents—in the recent Holy Land Foundation terrorism funding trial, in which the Ikhwan states:
“The Ikhwan must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all religions.”
Muslims have been very fortunate that their aims have coincided with and benefited from the wholesale onslaught by the Far Left and its Postmodern thought on all the institutions and perceptions of the U.S., and on our world view, a highly successful and widespread onslaught which, almost as a side effect, destroyed our traditional experts on Islam, the “Orientalists,” and our former, much more informed and skeptical view of the Qur’an, the history of Islam, and Islam and Muslim’s strategy, tactics and ultimate goal, a cadre of experts, and a worldview, and conclusions about Islam that was almost single-handedly destroyed in the 1970s by Barack Hussein Obama and Bill Ayers great personal friend, “Palestinian” and Columbia professor, Edward Said, who along with his acolytes and followers and successors, and a whole boat load of Saudi money, succeeded over several decades in replacing our former knowledge, skepticism and wariness with the Saudi influenced and benign view of Islam current today, that is so much more palatable than the former view that—as has been the case for the last 1,400 years—we unbelievers are under almost constant attack by Islam and Muslims and that, whether we know it or not or want to admit it or not—we are in a fight for our very survival as free men and as a civilization; for Islam dictates that all the earth and every man, woman and child in it should be subservient to and ruled in all ways by Islam and its Shari’a law.
Due to the overwhelming and widespread success of Said and many other Muslims and their agents and acolytes in their campaign of disinformation there is, today, no general, deep, and true knowledge among the vast majority of our citizenry about the content of the three fundamental documents of Islam–Qur’an, the Hadiths and the Sira, and about the central and key Muslim Quranic interpretive technique of “Naskh” or abrogation–that there is general ignorance about the life and deeds of Muhammad, the history of Islam these last 1,400 years, and about the breadth, terror and ferocity, and past occupations and victories of Islam’s constant Jihad against all unbelievers, ignorance of Muslims use of the religiously sanctioned deceptive tactics of Takiyya (dissimulation i.e. lying) and Kitman (partial truth) when dealing with all unbelievers (if it will benefit an individual Muslim or the cause of Islam), a perilous situation which needs to be changed, and fast.
For if instead of fantasy, denial and disinformation this knowledge were there, we would resist, we would dig our heels in, and the storm of protest over this Mosque and all the other examples of both violent and stealth Jihad taking place all over the U.S. would be so loud as to shake the Earth, and even the suggestion of building things like the Cordoba Mosque would never even be tolerated, much less acquiesced to, or justified and seen as a “good thing,” as a shining example of our “tolerance,” and of how “big” a people we are. For we would understand very clearly and deeply and irrefutably that building such a Mosque is another brick laid in a path that is intended to and leads to our ultimate conquest and subjugation by Islam, and we would shout, “This shall not stand.”
They will probably just blow themselves up while making bombs in the basement.
WOW!! arent you just hilarious, how about we get a church and put some priests in it and get them to rape little boys, would you like that too!! oh, it sounds wonderful!!! maybe we should get the churchs bell ringing every time they put their dicks in little boys asses. you people are nuts and you have no idea what you are talking about. read the kuran in english, it will open your eyes to see what this relision is about. its about respecting your family, being peaceful and happy, NOT KILLING, NOT DRINKING! AND CERTAINLY NOT BOMBING PLACES!!!
There are at least 83 mosques in the 5 boroughs of NYC. There are NO churches OF ANY KIND in Riyahd, Saudi Arabia. Not a church, not a synagogue, not a Hindu temple, not a Buddhist shrine.
It is ISLAM that needs to learn tolerance. Well, that, and not cutting people’s heads off, or slicing young girls’ clitorises off, or blowing up buses or airplanes or buildings or marketsplaces or pizza parlors or…
etc etc etc
Mr. Ibrahim is of course correct, very perceptively so. The problem is that few issues are so emotionally charged as this ground zero mosque that some people are unable to appreciate his Mr Spock-like logic. Like he says, the more people huff and puff, the more the many who are on the fence begin to wonder what the problem is, the more likely they are to begin investigating Islam – which is a positive step.
You know, if Abraham had listened to God (and not his wife) and not impregnated Hagar, who gave birth to Ishmael, father of the Islamic jihad movement, we wouldn’t be in the situation we’re in.
But, that water is WAY under the bridge.
Libido and love of coin have ruined the human experiment every time. Jerry Maguire, had he been real, might have saved the world.
In a sense Mr Ibrahim is right – but you are still left with the main problem – what action to take. Scrutiny of Islam is not enough. Islam is like an amorphous cloud which disappears when anybody tries to pin it down, then reappears in various “reasonable” forms somewhere else. We in the West (in the main) lean towards logical reasonable thought and approach. Most of us are conditioned against irrational prejudice, and even more so now with the liberalist/ multiculturalist /celebrate diversity culture gaining more and more ground. Islam is steadfast in its aim of elitism and superiority over everybody else, by sanctioned violence if necessary, so to Islam it’s always been a given that Western culture will never be compatible with it. What has to happen before WE all realise it, too? Islam has the upper hand at present, because it knows we have this willingness to accommodate it.
What’s needed is a gigantic paradigm shift. What’s needed is for us all to say “No” and mean it. If they kick off then we have to nip it in the bud. It always amazes me how hard we work to make sure their sensibilities aren’t offended – what about OUR sensibilities? Why is it impossible for us to believe that the people we want to engage with and “embrace” actually lie to us as a part of their faith? Where does this naivete come from? Islamists and their supporters are relentless – we need to adopt their attitude to the Western way of life and turn it back on Islam. Show no mercy, as they do. Take no prisoners, as they do.
Why do we insist on carrying on being the authors of our eventual cultural and moral demise? Isn’t it ludicrous that just a few officials (like your Mayor Bloomberg, for example) are allowed to say they know more than us what’s good for us?
I don’t live in the US (as you may have guessed) but I admire the tenacity of Americans who defend their First Amendment rights. Here in Britain we have no such luxury as a First Amendment. We were forced to give away our rights to free speech when the previous government signed up to open border policies and Human Rights laws which Muslims are now using against us. Our thousands of years old culture is being smothered. We have become scared to say what we think or believe in our own country in case Muslims get offended and we could be prosecuted. Our government has become racist – against its own non-Muslim people. Don’t let it happen to you. Don’t stop fighting for your rights as free people. We in Britain look to you as an example to aspire to.
Even worse, you don’t have a 2nd Amendment to protect your free speech rights (and all your other rights), or to deal with 3rd World invaders in the only manner they understand. And thanks to Obama, the common folk are now armed as never before. That, IMHO, is our ace in the hole — if all else fails, we can simply shoot the bastards (tip of the hat to Claire Wolfe).
If Europe is to be saved, it will have to be with smuggled weapons and people willing to use them. Fortunately Switzerland is even more heavily armed per capita than the US, so arms should be relatively easy to get there. The US and Russia can supply the rest. The AK-47 has been around a long time, but it’s reliable, tough and easy to use. In my favorite alternate-history novel, the Confederates used them to win the Civil War!
I wonder how the Arab Street spins “Mosque to be built in the shadow of WTC site”. Is it seen as a poke in the eye to America? Are the powers to be in NYC bending over backwards to be politically correct and show how evolved and enlighgtened – how “We are the World” we all are? Were we not to close Gitmo because it enraged the Arab Street and enflammed jihadist passions? Why do we demonstrate such empahty for Muslim sensibilities when the sentiment is not mutual? This appeasement sickens me. The world is truly upside down.
The religion of islam forbids anyone of killing. the people who attacked the twin towers were either not islam or they were extremist who thought that they were doing the right thing. also in this religion, girls have to be covered so that perverted men dont look at them and make them feel uncomfortable. it hides their beauty which keeps them safe. if the government doesnt allow this mosque to be built than it will be totally going against the constitution. there are always news about people killing other people. and THEY are christian, maybe the government shouldnt allow any churches to be built. it hurts when dumb people say things like “muslims kill everyone thats not muslim” because its NOT TRUE. did you ever read the kuran or talk to a muslim. muslim people can’t even drink alcohol because it makes you do stupid things like killing. stop talking about the religion if you dont know what its about and the rules in it. plans for this mosque has begun before 9/11 happened. it is very rude that people are going against this mosque. if your so against it then ignore it, thats it! IGNORE IT! i guarantee you that the mosque WILL NOT have a sign saying “haha, this mosque is located where a bunch of people died.” you people are absolutely rediculous. look up the 5 pillars of islam or read the kuran. muslims were affected by the 9/11 attack too!