The Party of ‘No’ in 2010
The House Republicans — all of them — voted against the stimulus. Only two Republicans and Arlen Specter voted for it in the Senate. That’s as clear a political divide as you are going to get. Not only do the Democrats now “own” the stimulus and the non-recovery, but Republicans are in a vastly improved position to argue that the economy is too anemic for cap and trade, the deficit too great for ObamaCare, and unemployment too high for card check and other Big Labor giveaways.
Obama, by deferring to Congress and indulging in his own left-wing ideology, has made every Democrat in a less-than-perfectly-safe seat nervous. How are they going to get elected by adhering to an agenda that offers so little for all but the most extreme ideologues? Obama, given his enormous popularity and the low repute in which the public regarded Republicans, had the chance to occupy the vast middle ground in the center of the political spectrum. But instead he ran left — far left. The result may prove to be perilous both for him and his congressional allies.
So there is little wonder that Democrats are nervous and the media pundits are fretting. The New York Times tells us:
Even as Democratic leaders and the White House insisted that the nation was closer than ever to landmark changes in the health care system, they faced basic questions about whether some of their proposals might do more harm than good.
And while senior Democrats vowed to press ahead to meet Mr. Obama’s deadline of having both chambers pass bills before the summer recess, some in their ranks, nervous about the prospect of raising taxes or proceeding without any Republican support, were pleading to slow down.
It seems that even Democratic congressmen like freshman Representative Jared Polis thinks that taxes “could cost jobs in a recession.”
Obama, certain of his ideology and in full spin-mode, appears entirely unwilling to reverse course and chart a pro-growth, job-creating agenda. As Robert J. Samuelson explains:
In February, Obama denounced “politics as usual” in constructing the stimulus. But that’s what we got, and Obama likes the result. Interviewed recently by ABC’s Jake Tapper, he was asked whether he would change anything. Obama seemed to invoke a doctrine of presidential infallibility. “There’s nothing that we would have done differently,” he said.
But the Republicans would have. And they no doubt will remind the voters of that in 2010. Then “The Party of No” may be a badge of honor — and a very effective campaign slogan.
“The results of the Democrats’ stimulus package are plain. We have 9.5 percent unemployment nationally and fifteen states suffer from double-digit unemployment.”
Yeah, right. It’s all the fault of the stimulus. It had nothing to do with the trillion dollar Wall Street theft, the housing bubble, the trillion dollar Iraq debacle, nor the massive debt run up by Bush.
Yeah, right. And Obama couldn’t fix Bush’s disasters in 6 months.
Admit it. You are scared to death that the effectiveness of Obama’s stimulus will sink the republicans for a generation.
And you are right. It will.
Wall street funding and the housing bubble is just as much a Democrat debacle i.e. Dodd and Frank running interference for the insanity. Iraq may belong to Bush but plenty of Democrats voted to let him invade. Both partys are run by Big Government Pinheads which leads to out of control deficits.
You’re right, the stimulus has nothing to do with Wall Street, housing, Iraq, or Bush’s deficit. It won’t fix any of them.
Obama’s “rookie” mistakes and the Dems’ new fears can only make me wonder, are they all that stupid, or were they hoping for a miracle?
(jharp, cf: the CRA for keys to the Wall Street theft and the housing bubble, Obama’s expansion of the war in Afghanistan for who’s spending money on foreign wars, and Bush’s Democrat-like spending along with fierce conservative opposition to it. Sorry I can’t provide a source on conservatives “scared to death” that Obama’s stimulus will work, although plenty have acknowledged that if the economy recovers despite Obama’s attempt to destroy it, he’ll get credit for it.)
Obama’s rookie mistakes and the Dems’ subsequent accessions can only leave me wondering, are they all that dumb or were they hoping for a miracle?
(jharp, cf: the CRA for the Wall Street theft and the housing bubble, Obama’s expansion of the war in Afghanistan and now Pakistan for who’s spending money on foreign wars, and conservative opposition to Bush’s Democrat-like spending. Sorry I don’t have a source on conservatives “scared to death” that Obama’s stimulus will work, although I acknowledge there’s an understanding that if the economy recovers despite his attempts to destroy it, he’ll get the credit. Nothing anyone can do about that.)
jharp seems to forget (or convieniently ignores) The Won claiming unemployment would NEVER pass 8% and the economy would turn around almost instantly, if ONLY we passed his stimulus package, and if we did not, the country would be facing a disaster the likes of which no one has ever seen before!
Face it jharp, this economy belongs to The Won and his Democratic hoards 100%. He wanted it, he got it! And oth he and the Dumbocratic congress can now face the consequences.
The “stimulus” was never a true stimulus since it basically funded every Leftist dream it had withheld for 12 years; the “stimulus” is an appropriations bill of obscene proportions, loaded with mostly pork, a monstrosity that costs more than any other bill EVER! However, President Obama sold the appropriations bill as a “stimulus” bill to the public. He insisted it should be passed of the world would end. The Democrats rammed the bill through Congress, without any true Republican support. Therefore, the Democrats own the economy & the high unemployment rate. The so-called “stimulus”–according to Obama–was meant to keep unemployment at 8%, yet we are at 9.5% & climbing to 10%. President Obama’s “stimulus” package will follow him through his 4 year term & haunt him.
NO is a powerful word. President Obama must be told NO continuously like a spoiled child wanting everything he sees. I expect a militant tantrum from the One Wednesday.
He’s also holding back the annual budget due in July to mid-August…
As the damage of putting extreme leftists in charge of the entire U.S. government becomes more evident and the un-keepable promises and distortions of this administration grow clear, we will move back towards sanity. That was the design of our founding fathers (the ability to self correct) and it still has the ability to work despite the best efforts of the political left to stuff the ballot box and control/crush debate and dissent.
There are always going to be a percentage of Americans that are fool enough to believe that handing over responsibility for their lives to a massive Washington bureaucracy is actually the answer. But the rest of the country is starting to wake up to the fact that we are moving toward a place we don’t want to be – a place that is in direct opposition to American tradition and excellence. Giving a monopoly to Government in health care has lead to corruption, graft, disfunction, and people living in misery on waiting lists with very few exceptions. The quality of life for most Americans would be reduced by doing this.
There are ways to improve access to health care in America without burdening us all with the disaster that is the current Democratic plan. Lets hope we can stop this mistake before it is too late.
“No” seems like a much better plan, now that we know that “yes, we can” actual consists of the audacity of dope.
“Bush’s deficit”
And Democrats no longer get to complain about this =)
conservatives (even those who generally supported Bush) did not support him on that aspect, so they are being consistent.
Democrats criticized him for his deficit, and then within the first month spent more than all previous administrations (including Bush) COMBINED.
And for all that, the unemployment numbers are EXACTLY where Obama warned they would be if we “did nothing” – and that means the stimulus has performed EXACTLY as its detractors said it would.
Democrats have proven themselves hypocrites and their policies as wasteful and wrong better than any Reagan infomercial could have possibly hoped to do.
Will the first 6 months of 2009 become known as the Looting of America?
High unemployment is not the fault of the Obama Stimulus, it is simply the metric that demonstrates the Democrat Stimulus has been ineffective. Tax cuts would have spurred thousands of small decisions by thousands of small business employers who would hire or retain thousands of employees.
Instead, we see, they’ve spent a million dollars on 2 lb of frozen ham. Is that a single purchase or a recurring delivery. But even a weekly delivery, that is some expensive ham. And who is eating this that they can’t eat 2 lb of fresh ham before it spoils? That must be some good frozen ham. Ham that good deserves to have someone blog about the experience.
And now we see, Obama wants to tax small businesses out of existence so he can give healthcare to people illegally in the US while rationing care to citizens who earlier could get the treatments they needed.
And let’s not forget the plan to jack up the heating bills for all these unemployed citizens in an effort to destroy American industry’s competitiveness in the world markets.
How do you take a great country and make it mediocre? You put a Community Organizer in charge. Then with corrupt compatriots, they loot the treasury, leverage all the assets and leave an indebted carcass behind. I remember when the progressives condemned Wall Street for doing this to companies, I guess as long as they are profiting, looting is A-okay with them.
And btw,
I’ve heard a few on the “right” worried that things are going to bottom out, and be well on the mend by 11/10. I think the odds of that are a little north of the odds of the arctic ice cap melting. At this point, enough damage has already been irreversibly done that the Republicans can pretty well bank on things continuing to seriously suck well into the midterms. 0bama wouldn’t be able to change that, if that were his only priority at this point.
But maybe his strategy is the FDR formulation; scare the lumpen into believing that the Great Leader is their only hope. If that’s his strategy, the polls certainly don’t seem to indicate that it’s working.
He doesn’t quite have that FDR touch. The words seem right, but the music is wrong. Or something like that.
“are they all that stupid(?)”
They are arrogant and “benevolent” elites who graduated from the best universities. Their general knowledge and overall wonderfulness should suffice. Specific expertise to solve complex problems is not required when one is so superior compared to the unwashed masses. This is the key doctrine embraced by those adherents of the Progressive vision. Our founding fathers wisely instituted checks and balances to curtail the excess zeal of such power seeking people—and that’s why Obama and his cronies are hostile toward the U.S. Constitution. They desire to push paradigm changing legislation before the rest of get a chance to even catch our breath. Please note the constant urgency to “get it done today because tomorrow will be too late.”
Tell me again about the “shovel ready” create jobs, back to work part of the stimulus package. It is one of my favorite little songs next to “Bush did it”, “We inherited this mess”, and “The Economy is build on a foundation of sand.”
“He doesn’t quite have that FDR touch. The words seem right, but the music is wrong. Or something like that.”
Franklin D. Roosevelt had virtually complete control of the newsprint and radio media. Barack Obama has to contend with radio talk show hosts, Fox News, and blogs like Pajamas Media. That makes all the difference in the world.
Obama LIED and the Economy DIED
Now,this is the Jennifer Rubin who is using her God-given good brain.
But the Fred Barnes’ quote in which he blames congress and gives Obama a free pass on the Obamulus-porkulus-stimulus is as wrong-headed as can be. Who was saying crisis! crisis! crisis!
“The Won claiming… and the economy would turn around almost instantly”
Let me guess. In addition to being a wingnut, you claim to be a Christian too.
And then proceed to openly lie about the President.
You go to hell for lying just as much as stealing.
It’s one of the top ten. Remember?
Hey, just say no! It finally makes some sense.
NO! NO! NO more left wingnut plans!
Obambi smoking? Light ‘em up, Obabmi! YES! YES! YES!
That jharp is one testy Democrat employee: “…the massive debt run up by Bush.” Congress is the only organization in the government that can authorize increased debt. Sooner or later Obama may learn that. Right now he seems to think he can do whatever he wants.
As for Repubs voting nay, sometimes no can be a real cool hand (H/T Luke).
Jharp: I must say, you truly are a sycophantic worm, is it possible that you never saw the master piece of soundtrack excellence known as FLASH GORDON?
Just in case you missed it, here is the relevant quote!
Klytus: And now the tributes, from Ardentia
Ardentian Prince: We, the people of Ardentia, we have suffered since you blasted our kingdom. I can offer you nothing this year except my loyalty
Klytus: Excellent, we prize nothing more highly. And tell us, how great is this loyalty to your emperor?
Ardentian Prince: Without measure.
Ming: We are delighted to hear that. Fall on your sword
To jharp @ #18:
The president said he was taking full responsibility for rescuing the US economy, in its worst downturn in 80 years.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/02/03/push_stimulus_forth_says_president/
*Obama says he’s “absolutely confident” problems can be fixed
*Obama says plan “not perfect,” but will help economy
*Obama says most important part of plan is job creation
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/09/obama.news.conference/?eref=rss_topstories
“We’re not moving quickly because we’re trying to jam something down people’s throats,” he said. “We’re moving quickly because if we don’t, the economy’s going to keep getting worse.”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/06/obama.stimulus/index.html
President Barack Obama pressed Congress Monday night to urgently approve a massive economic recovery bill, using the first prime-time news conference of his presidency to warn that a failure to act “could turn a crisis into a catastrophe.”
http://cbs11tv.com/business/president.barack.obama.2.930299.html
Skeptics warned that the economic “stimulus” package President Barack Obama and his liberal supporters rammed through Congress would do little to create new jobs. We were right.
http://www.theintelligencer.net/page/content.detail/id/525093.html?startIndex=26
Need me to cite any more examples, jharp, or has reality slapped you in the face sufficiently yet?
Or are you simply one of the mindless Obamatrons who sticks his fingers in his ears yelling “La la la la! I can’t hear you! I can’t hear you!”?
HEY JHARPO YOU CHARMINGLY NAIVE FOOL,
Since you claim to be “oh so concerned” about “trillion dollar theft” (ostensibly by Wall Street…),
…perhaps you can show us all here some of your sanctimonious indignation about the trillions of dollars banks were forced to throw away on those (minorities) who demonstrably could not afford the loans (much less pay back interest on the principal) by Democrat President Bill Clinton with his jerryrigging of the Community Reinvestment Act.
You fraud. Go off to HuffPo, punk.
“Then “The Party of No” may be a badge of honor…”
That slogan would be abused — maybe “Party for discipline” would be a better one. Discipline is much more important characteristic than “no”, because it is a quality of good leadership.
When Obama instigates crises to mandate “change”, this is an important example of lack of discipline and leadership. The Democratic majority lacks discipline because they mistakenly believe that they are the ones who are disciplined. But there is no discipline and leadership in mandates — we can outlaw all “wrong” behavior, or legally define the “health care system”, and there may still be no-one to show us the “right” way. It takes discipline to know that sometimes, even when you think or “know” that you are right, you may be wrong…
I have known enough Ivy League graduates and people with advanced degrees to know that a diploma does not confer on the recipient high intellect, insight, or even common sense. The press keeps telling us that Mr. Obama is one of the smartest men ever to sit in the Oval Office. Really? May I have some empirical evidence, please? How about the results of an IQ test? Or maybe I could read some of Mr. Obama’s college papers? I understand he was at one time the editor of the Harvard Law Review. So what did he publish during that time?
I’ve come to the conclusion that Mr. Obama is both intellectually lazy and rather poorly educated. When he makes a statement like “we need more Arabic speakers in Afghanistan,” I have to conclude that he lacks a basic foundation in common knowledge. When he speaks off the cuff and I here unintelligible blather, I have to believe that his IQ is slightly above average at best. Brothers and sisters, there’s no there THERE!
The country is in the hands of a not overly bright, poorly educated, neophyte politician and ideologue. Yikes! This can’t turn out well.
What color is the sky in your world? Obama and the Democrats got a MANDATE to do the stuff that the “Party of No” is doing their best to keep from happening. And you expect to be REWARDED for standing in the way of the will of the people?
This must be why you can’t win an election. You’re deluded.
Peter the Bubblehead:
“Need me to cite any more examples, jharp”
Examples of what? Of Obama making it clear the state of the economy after Bush nearly destroyed it?
No thanks. You’ve cited enough examples already.
And before judging the effectiveness of the stimulus spending anyone with any sense would like, you know, wait until the stimulus spending began.
Ed Wallis:
“by Democrat President Bill Clinton with his jerryrigging of the Community Reinvestment Act.”
The Community Reinvestment Act was passed in 1977, birdbrain.
Remind me again what the Republican controlled Congress from 1994 to 2006 did about it.
Win some elections, then we’ll talk about “winning messages.
The GOP is going to lose NY-23 just like they lose every competitive race out there. And I’m still going to have to sit through Rubin’s self delusions.
24,23,22 etcetcc…you guys are feeding that darned troll again.
that’s all he’s here for. I don’t care what you say, the troll will come up with nasty crap…look past this person, don’t answer , you’re feeding him. He cannot offer any constructive views, just venom. Doesn’t matter what he says, ignore him…soros vomit.
wow …still so many comments blaming Bush.
don’t these marxist clowns and “usefull idiots” realise that the democtrates controled congress for the last 2 years of the Bush administration and before that there was enough liberal republicans in the house to allow the democrates to control the budgets ??
truth is honest people always get trampled by the decietful lying scum that claim to work for the people.
it is painfully obvious to anyone who cares to find out.
is there any obuma appointee/friend/acquientance that didn’t have dirty hands? if not criminal past (just because they didn’t go to jail doesn’t mean they are not criminal)
and people think this crowd of jokers are going to fix anything.
it will get worse. …look at the crap of these first months ..imagine what the landscape will look like after 4 years.
@jharp # 29
“The Community Reinvestment Act was passed in 1977, birdbrain.
Remind me again what the Republican controlled Congress from 1994 to 2006 did about it.”
The particularly damaging aspects of the CRA which the Democrats insisted on and still defend happened during Clinton’s term.
Not 1977.
Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
I don’t want to see Democrats nervous, I want them booted out of Congress for the lies, the failure to lead with fiscal responsibility, and the RUSH to pass everything that does nothing to strenghten our Nation. Obama will go down with his Party as the worse Congress in history.
Tom Perkins:
“The particularly damaging aspects of the CRA which the Democrats insisted on and still defend happened during Clinton’s term.”
“insisted on”? Are you smoking dope?
The republicans controlled Congress from 94-06 and didn’t lift a finger except to repeal the Glass/Steagle Act. A feat that many believe was the main culprit in the economic meltdown. I agree.
Let me get this straight. 76% of Americans favor drastic health care reform. And a deficit neutral solution that expands coverage to 97% of us while at the same time providing COMPETITION that will drive costs down.
And you honestly believe “the party of no” is a winning strategy? That must be some strong stuff you’ve been puffing.
For Immediate Release:
July 17, 2009
CBO Scores Confirms Deficit Neutrality of Health Reform Bill
Washington, D.C. — The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released estimates this evening confirming for the first time that H.R. 3200, America’s Affordable Health Choices Act, is deficit neutral over the 10-year budget window – and even produces a $6 billion surplus. CBO estimated more than $550 billion in gross Medicare and Medicaid savings. More importantly, the bill includes a comprehensive array of delivery reforms to set the stage for lowering the future growth in health care costs.
Net Medicare and Medicaid savings of $465 billion, coupled with the $583 billion revenue package reported today by the House Committee on Ways and Means, fully finance the previously estimated $1.042 trillion cost of reform, which will provide affordable health care coverage for 97% of Americans.
Brain Dead Diarist: There is no “mandate”. You are just kidding yourself on this. He campaigned as a moderate and got 52% of the vote, and of course that is with the usual Democrat election corruption. If the GOP had put up a real conservative they would have won.
People are wise to him now. No decent Americans voted for this sort of Socialist/Fascist agenda; not one of them voted for this crony-capitaism or this completel disregard for the Constitution. No decent American wants a Marxist in charge nor to they want a liar or a thug in the WH. The truth will win out eventually.
If the election were held today he would not win. He scares the electorate SH@$less. Only the corrupt Democrat machine and its clients would vote for him now. Look at the latest RAS poll–he is tied with Romney and only 6 points ahead of Palin. That is outrageous for someone just a half a year into their first term. It is particularly telling given how deep the MSM is in the tank for him and all the negative stuff they have been throwing at him. Obama is in constant campaign mode, and Romney and Palin are just going about their business. He cannot even control a Democrat Congress. The heat they are getting from their constituencies must be just searing. It is over for him; only the faithful cannot see this. He is well on his was to becoming completely marginalized and he has not even been in office a year. I wonder if he will even serve out his term. There is certainly enough to impeach him on already. Just wait until the public finally understands how they were played by the likes of Goldman Sachs and their ilk. The outcry will be deafening. He has too weak of a character to take what is coming. He is an incompetent and dishonorable wuss.
He is running ads against Democrats via the DNC. He does not really have the sort of power to pull that off. The Democrats will eat him alive themselves. I imagine that right this minute some over at Langley, some of the deep Democrat power establishment are already hatching some way to hound him from office before it is too late for them. Expect scandal within a year. The last thing they want is a solid, non-establishment, grassroots conservative collision in power on the Hill and in the WH. Then the truth will come out and a lot of Democrat biggies will end up in a jail cell (and quite a few RINO’s too).
I doubt that you are very old at all–you sound like this is your first election–you are about to get an education io American politics. I doubt though that it will stick much with you. You are to arrogant to learn.
throwing at him-throwing at Palin
The bussness comunity can’t let this stupidty continue. We have a red ideologe as President, who never ran anything. None of these dems ever ran a dam thing and are incapable off making judgements on value and cost affectiveness. Every thing they do is political pork or idological bs.
“What color is the sky in your world? Obama and the Democrats got a MANDATE to do the stuff that the “Party of No” is doing their best to keep from happening. And you expect to be REWARDED for standing in the way of the will of the people?”
Not true. Just because I voted for Obama (yeah, I’m admitting it) doesn’t mean I’m for whatever he does. In fact, he’s turned out to be a real disappointment. And, yeah, I want to see health care reform, but this bill sucks.
Truth be told, I hope the Republicans are able to make some gains in 2010. One-party rule just doesn’t seem to work too well.
24. Ed Wallis: “HEY JHARPO YOU CHARMINGLY NAIVE FOOL,
Since you claim to be “oh so concerned” about “trillion dollar theft” (ostensibly by Wall Street…),
…perhaps you can show us all here some of your sanctimonious indignation about the trillions of dollars banks were forced to throw away on those (minorities) who demonstrably could not afford the loans (much less pay back interest on the principal) by Democrat President Bill Clinton with his jerryrigging of the Community Reinvestment Act.
You fraud. Go off to HuffPo, punk.”
“We can put light where there’s darkness, and hope where there’s despondency in this country. And part of it is working together as a nation to encourage folks to own their own home.”
- President George W. Bush, Oct. 15, 2002
I’m sorry, who is the naive fool?
40. Carolb:
“And, yeah, I want to see health care reform, but this bill sucks.”
What sucks about this?
And it fails to mention the best part. The new competition that will certainly drive down costs.
CBO Scores Confirms Deficit Neutrality of Health Reform Bill
Washington, D.C. — The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released estimates this evening confirming for the first time that H.R. 3200, America’s Affordable Health Choices Act, is deficit neutral over the 10-year budget window – and even produces a $6 billion surplus. CBO estimated more than $550 billion in gross Medicare and Medicaid savings. More importantly, the bill includes a comprehensive array of delivery reforms to set the stage for lowering the future growth in health care costs.
Net Medicare and Medicaid savings of $465 billion, coupled with the $583 billion revenue package reported today by the House Committee on Ways and Means, fully finance the previously estimated $1.042 trillion cost of reform, which will provide affordable health care coverage for 97% of Americans.
Jharp: Its called youtube… It required 4 clicks of the mouse and the search string “barney frank fannie mae” to prove your slobbering idiocy wrong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
You are either A.)Retarded or B.)Have a deep seated need to inhale on Obama’s cigar or C.)Are actually an employee of the Obamanistas.
The big picture has been painted via http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124631486277570583.html
Now, it needs to be sold to John and Jane Lunch bucket. There is still time to reverse the excesses of Obama and crew.
jharp @ #28
Are you not reading? Are you only seeing what you want to see? Oh, no, I get it. You DO have your fingers in your ears yelling “LA LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!!”
Because I posted just the first few news articles I found showing that Obama claimed ownership of HIS economy, an economy he has only further flushed down the toilet.
I posted links showing Obama claimed catastrophe would occur if we did not pass his stimulus quicker than yesterday (and of course, don’t bother reading any of it, what is written inside is not important of course!) and that he and only he could save this country from disaster, and then he promptly got millions of more Americans thrown out of work.
You Obomites are BLIND to what is going on around you in the real world most of the rest of us live in. I wish I could be there when reality slams you in the face. I wish I could watch you cry when you realize you aren’t any more special than everyone else struggling to make ends meet and that you need to support yourself and not depend on others to do it for you.
Like all Obomites (and a great many loony liberals) whose favorite catch-phrase is “It’s Bush’s Fault!” need to wake up to the fact that Obama, in only 6 months in office, has indebted this country to a greater degree than all 43 of his predecessors combined! When are you going to face reality and start crying out “It’s Obama’s Fault!”?
Jharp: Its called youtube… It required 4 clicks of the mouse and the search string “barney frank fannie mae” to prove your slobbering idiocy wrong.
And it’s all BS. And Congressman Frank responded. “You’ve misrepresented this consistently. I became chairman of the committee on January 31st, 2007. Less than two months later, I did what the Republicans hadn’t been able to do in 12 years — get through the committee a very tough regulatory bill…The Senate was dragging its feet, as often happens. And in January of 2008, I asked Secretary Paulson to put in the stimulus bill. So the earliest chance I got to put tough regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, we did it.”
30. Dero wrote:
The GOP is going to lose NY-23 just like they lose every competitive race out there. And I’m still going to have to sit through Rubin’s self delusions.
Peter writes: Then please explain how it is that Republicans have won every special election that has been held across the country since Obama’s so-called stimulus plan was passed, sight-unseen?
http://www.rslc.com/SpecialElections
Go ahead, explain? I’m listening.
Just say “no” to trolls.
Jharp, It was the Clinton administration that pushed Glass/Steagle–they were the major players here, not the GOP, and it was the Democrat controlled institutions that in the main benefited. In particular it was Rubin, then Sec. of Treasury, that pushed for this. At the behest of Sanford Weill, then the CEO of Citi group and a big Democrat contributor, Rubin pushed it through the Hill. Rubin was rewarded with a Board Seat at Citigroup and also had this weird “Strategic Manager” position there the duties of which no one in the industry has been able to figure out to this day. He quit this last summer just before the SHTF and left Citi in ruins. The value of Citi shares decreased 70% during his time there. It was so bad that the shared holders brought a suite against him and Weill. Rubin did not care, he made his bucks. Typical Democrat political insider and grifter.
Prior to being in the Clinton administration, he ran Goldman Sachs.
Both Citi and GS were big players in the MBS markets. The government now owns 36% of Citi, Goldman is making money had over fist and is essentially controlling the US treasury. Citi would have been restructured without these bailouts. Lehman Bros., a direct competitor of GS, is now gone. So is Bear Stearns, another competitor. GS management had a major hand in the decisions that lead to the demise of both firms. The management of GS and Citi should be in jail cells. Hopefully this may yet happen.
Really, “Too big to fail” only applies to institutions controlled by Democrat political insiders. Just look at what is now happening to CIT, which is much more serious to the economy than what was happening to the big Wall St. firms last fall. But CIT loans to small firms in the middle of the country, that is to say people that vote GOP. So screw them, screw the middle class and screw middle America. Trillions for crooked, millionaire Democrat Wall street political insiders and zip for hard working, decent middle class Americans out there on Main Street. Most of the Wall street institutions involved are strongly Democrat institutions. There are really few GOP institutions left on The Street. The so called “money centered banks” and their peripheral institutions put up over 150 million dollars for Obama’s campaign. Republicans dominate the Main Street sector not the Wall Street sector, and had little to do with this “crisis”. This kind of corruption should be illegal–oh wait, it isillegal.
Some pals you have there, jharp. Some real vipers there that you root for. Just your sort.
As to glass/steagle being responsible for this, you would have to prove that. It is hard to see how much difference this would make at all as the asset reserve requirements still required separation between entities. Certainly people in the industry do not thinks so. This “crisis” has to do with derivatives floated to spread the risk for the CRA mandated loans, and the “insurance policies” (i.e., CDS’s,) that were use to “cover” these (and these are very much like derivatives too, BTW).
I really doubt that you quite understand what this law was about if you think that it had an effect on the derivative markets. It certainly would not have affected the amount of capital floating about.
So you are quite wrong to assert this about Glass/steagle. In fact you know nothing at all about it, you are just repeating a talking point that you have heard somewhere. This talking point is made purely to deflect blame, but the facts are out there.
I challenge you to show that your “assertion” is true. I doubt, however, that you have the slightest idea of how financial markets work, so the fact that you “agree” with this talking point is rather meaningless.
Some other errors: The Senate was controlled by the Democrats during the first two years of Bush’s first term, so your dates are wrong. It is also dishonest: the GOP’s margins were often tiny-they were rarely in a position to ram things through congress, and rarely had the votes to overcome a presidential veto. Famously, the Clinton impeachment required Democrat votes. So really this is just another half truth spun as a talking point in order to deflect blame. So this GOP congress meme is squarely at odds with the political fact on the ground. But you knew that, didn’t you? Jharp, you are a typical Liberal: You cannot accept responsibility for you party’s actions and try to blame it on someone else.
What is really dishonest is to put the blame for the CRA on the GOP. They repeatedly tried to do something about this and were repeatedly rebuffed. To “do something about it” would have require some of the Democrats to come on board. But that would not happen for the Democrats were busy using it to loot the country and buying votes (and getting some good real estate deal too).
All of this is a matter of record and if you were intellectually honest you would look it all up before you spread Democrat lies. The fact that you do not do this and repeat those lies does not speak well of you.
May I sincerely suggest that we NOT respond to the likes of jharp and the other Kool-Aid drinkers who post here. They are programmed with their answers and like zit-infested Obama-bots, they walk in lockstep, mumbling the talking poits that Uncle George Sorors has passed out to them. Also, helping those lost in a fog of terminal stupidity is not worth a minute of your time and effort.
What is the saying? “Don’t try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.”
So, jharp, buzz off back to the cellar; your mom will call you when your dinner is ready.
jharp: Frank was lying. Why on earth would you believe the very cuplirts responsible for this. What a clown you are. Democrats lie when they open their mouths. They cannot tell the truth about a single thing. Guess what? They did not change these laws one bit after this disaster.
CRA, Freddie and Fanny are still there. Now there is no derivative market, it will have to come directly out of the taxpayer’s wallet.
Re #18 jharp: So in addition to being a racist (your “whitey” comment comes to mind), you also are now policing Christians (“Let me guess. In addition to being a wingnut, you claim to be a Christian too.”)?
You, my friend, have an anger problem. I’d suggest you iron that out before tackling such important issues like the huge deficit that Obama is currently racking up with abandon. Liberal democrats have now proven themselves to be incapable of turning the economy around and saving ANY jobs (besides those that involve ACORN).
Thank God the GOP still have the guts to say NO to this Obamination of an administration.
Bubblehead,
“Because I posted just the first few news articles I found showing that Obama claimed ownership of HIS economy”
Good one for realizing that Obama is indeed leading our economic recovery and owns it. I think even my dog realizes that.
“I posted links showing Obama claimed catastrophe would occur if we did not pass his stimulus quicker than yesterday”
And Obama was and is right.
“and that he and only he could save this country from disaster”
And the stimulus is the only way to do it. Right again, President Obama.
My apologies to Carol. I fed the troll jharp once again. Of course, I prefer to think that instead of feeding it, I lifted my leg and showed my superiority. I will refrain from doing so again no matter how easy it is to point out the lunacy of his/her/it’s liberal moonbat argument.
With Obama stinking it up so badly, arguing with trolls is like shooting fish in a barrel!
Please jharp, say something intelligent for once so I won’t have to spend time pointing out the obvious (that liberals are going to be laughed out of town during the next election)? In my corner of the country, people have already started laughing….
49. AThinkingPerson: “Please jharp, say something intelligent for once so I won’t have to spend time pointing out the obvious (that liberals are going to be laughed out of town during the next election)? In my corner of the country, people have already started laughing….”
20%. That’s the percent of adults in the NBC
News/Wall Street Journal survey who identified themselves as Republicans, down from 25 percent in a late March poll and at the lowest ebb in this poll since the fall of 1983(!).
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/shrinkinggop.jpg
Jharp:Really? Really?Seriously? Are you BLIND? Obama is a f******g idiot. He is dumber than BUSH. Bush was a TERRIBLE president but OBAMA is WORSE THAN BUSH. I want you to understand this you twit. It will be written on every available surface in two years time: OBAMA IS WORSE THAN BUSH!
The bailout is now projected to cost Americans $23 TRILLION.
George W. Obama has now assured his place on the hall of Presidential shame.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25164.html
jharp: the stimulus is not working. It cannot work. It is just payloa to the special interests that voted him in. They are not productive sectors of the economy, that is why they need the money. They are like you: They do not earn their way. This is not like daddy buying lemonade from your wittle stand, you know. It is theft from productive people to give the stolen money to parasites. It is bound to fail. IT has failed.
Mongoose:
“Jharp, It was the Clinton administration that pushed Glass/Steagle–they were the major players here, not the GOP”
More wingnut nonsense. Do you intentionally lie or are you simply too lazy to do your homework?
“The bill that repealed the Act was introduced in the Senate by Phil Gramm (Republican of Texas) and in the House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa) in 1999. The bills were passed by Republican majorities on party lines by a 54-44 vote in the Senate[12] and by a 343-86 vote in the House of Representatives.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass-Steagall_Act
oh yeah well you’re all wrong – parallel president and senator john fitzgerald kerry ran a donut shop into the ground. that’s the kind of experience mixed with battlefield bravery that makes this congress the right one for the job. to all those who say no one in congress has no practical business experience or the executive bunch is run by a bunch of academics, you are wrong – donut shops have been the cornerstone of the american dream for centuries.
Mike W: I hate to (well, actually I’m honored to) be the one to pee on your parade there bub but allow me to grace you with some very enlightening poll numbers….
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections2/election_2012/2012_match_ups_obama_romney_tied_at_45_obama_48_palin_42
Quite enjoyable wouldn’t you agree? I’d say that ramrodding through his liberal agenda, paying off union thugs and trying to redistribute wealth has kind of backfired on our Pied Piper wouldn’t you? Hehehehe….
Can the election get here soon enough?
billslayer: I beg to differ with you!
Obama is not only worse than Bush, he’s worse than Carter (whoever would have thought that possible)! Chalk Obama’s election up to uninformed, ignorant, unread liberals (again).
Mike W: It seems as if over-excited kool-aid swiggin’ liberals are even losing interest in bending over for Obama.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
Drip, drip, drip….
Oh great, jharp is now quoting Wikipedia as the gospel truth. Anyone else see the humor in this? LOL! Please, jharp, more wiki links! They are the liberal go to for “facts” after all.
A thinking person:And everyone except Jharp (you have no brain) I apologize for my tone today, I am having difficulties fixing other people’s computers remotely and I get frustrated by imbecilic marionettes pretending to actually be…human.
1. jharp: Are you insane or currently confined to a mental institution.
The current problem was caused by banks and mortgage companies giving loans to people whether legal citizens or not and might I add even if they had no means to repay such loans and these loans were guaranteed by Freddie Mae and Fanny Mae and they told banks and mortgage companies that they would not guarantee such loans unless they awarded loans to those that had no income nor no verifiable employment. These came to be known as NINJA loans (no income no job applications) and were sold to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac and became known as TOXIC ASSETS and then converted as derivatives mixed in with real good loans but as speculators and those with no means to actually make the payments got caught when the housing bubble burst then this caused the horrid crisis. Go do some learning and study economics online or try to go to school.
All this in a misguided effort to let anyone who wanted a home to buy one regardless of the means to repay the loan (with interest), this is the SUBPRIME mess that wrecked our country and the rest of the world.
If you go to a store would you give a “loan” of your own money to a bum who asked you for it of lets say $5,000? Well this is what actually happened and we are now paying for the result of democratic insanity.
One has to wonder how many of the loyal Obamabots were even alive when Carter was in the White House?
I can still remember those dark days, when it seemed like the country was going to collapse in on itself under inflation, OPEC, and the stripping of our national security.
The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officaldom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be controlled lest Rome become bankrupt, People must again learn to work, instead of living on the public assistance. ~~ Cicero (55 BC)
The current state of the deficit, size of government, use and abuse of power has its roots in the last 40 years or so with only brief respites of redemption. Obama is the prime example of the “arrogance of officialdom” and the Congress truly needs to be disbanded and new elections called. We won’t do any of these things and mores the pity. The Founders very aware of what finally became of Cicero and thus we have the Second Amendment.
#41 Mike W….but it was Obama, community activist, who took the banks to court and forced them to take on high risk loans. Standards were lowered and voila, Fannie and Freddie took the hit with the help of Franklin Raines who made 90 million. Google Waters and Fannie Mae. You won’t care much for what you hear at those hearings. Regulators were raked over the coals and as Rep Waters said, “if it ain’t broke why fix it?” But it was broken. Barney Frank is lying about his involvement with Fannie. He was personally involved for a few years with one of the big shots. He had leverage in their favor.
I think we can judge the state of the Obama minions by the shrill tone their comments are taking on. The hate and venom oozing out of their tirades tell of a very disenchanted populous. I think the bloom is off of the rose and now they are lashing out at those who are pointing out the obvious (that Obama is indeed proving himself to be even more inept than Carter).
66. Steve:
“The current problem was caused by banks and mortgage companies giving loans to people whether legal citizens or not and might I add even if they had no means to repay such loans and these loans were guaranteed by Freddie Mae and Fanny Mae and they told banks and mortgage companies that they would not guarantee such loans unless they awarded loans to those that had no income nor no verifiable employment.”
No I am not insane or institutionalized. But I did take high school and college English and learned how to write a sentence.
You obviously didn’t.
#67 Peter the Bubblehead
Don’t forget the gas rationing lines, odd and even days. My dad was furious about it. Obama may mean well philosophically, but he has zero common sense. We had no problem paying for all the necessary insurances before the “stimulus” er… ah…. “stabilization” act.
Here’s proof of Obama’s genius. Economic “recovery” in the form of 1.1 MILLION dollars for canned ham. It would be funny if it weren’t true.
http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/contracts-recipient-summary&id=12-AG3J14120297196&mode=details&primeid=27
I’m going to go tinker in my yard but I really did enjoy watching this wingnutosphere meltdown.
Fun, fun, fun.
I can’t imagine how you are going to handle the passage of Obamacare. Nor do I care.
The GOP ran things long enough and people have finally caught on to their lies and false promises.
Good Lord, just look at the mess they’ve put us in.
No jharp. Wikipedia is not a valid source for political discussion. It is heavily left leaning. It is notorious for the left wing/democrat slant on anything touching upon politics, particularly. Everyone knows that, for crying out loud. You do realize that one may not use Wikipedia as a valid research reference in high school or college work, don’t you?
just google “rubin glass steegal weill”
here is the top results:
http://www.allbusiness.com/government/business-regulations/500983-1.html
Here is quate from a testimony Rubin gave to congress in 1995:
“The banking industry is fundamentally different from what it was two decades ago, let alone in 1933.” He said the industry has been transformed into a global business of facilitating capital formation through diverse new products, services and markets. “U.S. banks generally engage in a broader range of securities activities abroad than is permitted domestically,” said the Treasury secretary. “Even domestically, the separation of investment banking and commercial banking envisioned by Glass-Steagall has eroded significantly.”
Weill pushed it through via Rubin, gave Rubin a job and Rubin got millions out of it.
Those are the fact! Not “nonsense”, but facts!
You see, you are quite wrong. You are lying. Just like i said, all you have to do is google for it before you spread lies. You have just illustrated my point! You try to call me the liar but just the opposite is true.
You really need to grow up a bit, jharp. I have just caught you both in both a lie and incompetence.
As usual you try insulting your way out of it, but you have your fact wrong. You just cannot admit it even when shown the facts.
Mayo Clinic came out against Obamacare. It seems they think it will lower quality of health care. Now, THAT makes me feel vindicated.
jharp:
No I am not insane or institutionalized. But I did take high school and college English and learned how to write a sentence.
You obviously didn’t
what nonsense. This is blog, not an English class. You are just avoiding discussing his points. Addressw his points.
And i would not be bragging about your prose, BTW, were I you. Its rather sophomoric.
Again, you cannot argue in a rational and honorable manner. You spit out lies, or misinformation, you rarely understand what you talking about and when called on it by others armed with facys and reason, you just attempt to insult your way out of it. But this is not how the adult world works. This is what democrats do.
You are making a fool out of yourself, but you are too immature and narcissistic to realize it.
The GOP is totally guilty: GW Bush didn’t veto any significant spending bill; he was a total enabler of the debt bubble. Congress was GOP controlled from 94-96. Oama did not make this mess.
But Obama’s making it much worse: you Obama apologists are smoking awfully good stuff if you think his massive-”massive” isn’t quite the word for it–”ruinous”? -deficits are going to make things better.
We are spending more money we don’t have, ….to put people to work in areas that generate no profit or value ….and they’ll all have to be laid off again, since the productive sector is running for cover.
Why would anyone hire new employees? The profit from more work will be taxed at higher rates. Employees will be entitled to family leave, sick leave, and soon to company paid healthcare–so fewer is better. A raft of new Obama judges will make it easier to employers for every perceived slight as “discrimination.”? Solution? Move that plant to China, Mexico, India…anywhere its wanted.
What amazes me is the passive acceptance of all this by people in the sectors that are going to be hardest hit: more jobs are leaving and they are not coming back. Even worse is the media: where do they hire these people? From “Newly minted BA’s R US” Sandinista University? The news media is still fawning over Obama (and he’s an impressive man but does anyone in the media own a calculator? Or know what inflation is? Interest on debt?).
The US still has a smaller percentage of its economy devoted to MAKING things people want to buy than in the 90′s. It’s manufacturing costs are still too HIGH compared to other places. The new taxes etc are not going to amke that better, they’ll make it WORSE. The economy still depends –almost 70%-on SPENDING by consumers who don’t have as much money as two years ago. And they are about to have even LESS as more jobs leave and the dollar cheapens. The “stimulus” has done nothing to change this.
yes stop responding to the likes of jharp
the difference between conservatives and liberals is simple.
conservatives don’t care how the liberals want to live, or spend their time and money.
….BUT the liberals want to tell the rest of the world how to live and spend their money and time.
WHY the stupid sh!ts don’t just join some commune or go to one of the many liberal utopias out there (cuba, venezuela, russia or north korea) is beyond rational thought. …but then again it is not their money they intend to spend it is that of the REAL working people.
homero at 79: they specialize in draining economies that are in relative good health. Their work is already done in the places you mention.
Here’s your party of no. Are you all proud?
Nah, we don’t need any health care reform. I’m sure this guys just a slacker. 25 years of work and he has nothing to show for it.
All because he lost his health insurance.
“After 25 years with the same company, Andy Stark lost his job and his health insurance.
Advertisement
While he found other work, it paid 30 percent less and had no benefits.
Then his wife got cancer.
Now the Simpsonville couple is struggling to pay medical bills they expect will total about $140,000.
“This is not the way things should be in America,” Andy Stark said.
In South Carolina, 670 people a week lose their health coverage.”
http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20090720/NEWS01/907200314/1013/NEWS
I cannot imagine what this poor couple is going through. The cancer is bad enough but Mrs. Stark also enjoys the privilege of worrying about payment and bankruptcy instead of focusing on getting well.
You people sicken me. You are repulsive and despicable human beings to favor a policy that allows this to happen.
I don’t understand.
If jharp (in particular) keeps coming up with obviously bitter, scathing, vitiolic , twisted crappy criticism of ANYONE that disagrees with him even slightly …
WHY???.. DO YOU ALL RESPOND?????
His arguments.. MIGHT.. prove intersting at times if not stated in such a
“two year old having a tantrum” way.
He must be paid to be here.
Carter doesn’t even come close to Obama. Ms. Lillian might rise up and slap your face!
Jennifer is right. There is lots of life after hopanchange – and the best place to learn about this is by examining the dems’ rhetoric which betrays growing anxiety and distrust for Obama’s knuckleheaded reforms.
No, No, and no. The Republicans must understand that when the Dems come with an olive branch, that attitude comes from their despair, and from their desire to have the Reps as associates in the incoming debacles.
No, guys, you won, you are marching behind the ONE, you are the majority, you know better, you have the media that is heartily approving you, so go ahead.
But alone – drown by yourselves.
So, let them sink.
The Politico is run by Former Washington Post Liberal Journalist so this is rather surprising coming from them since they are all Obama’s lovers .
Bailouts could cost U.S. $23 trillion! See it on Drudge .
Here is the reality and scaring us to death in those Mind blowing Numbers If your not a radical Socialist and this President .
If The USA can borrow money at a low 4 % Interest rate from China who has grown quite leery of lending us more money since that is $1.7 Trillion Dollars in Interest rates . After 3 Trillion was also lent to Foreign Banks to cover the loan scandal and total fraud hoax here they were deeply invested in as well .
We are printing money faster that lighting and we don’t have the shrinking The dollar or in our Federal bank .
The STIMULUS package to date is 1.2 soon to be 2 Trillion and growing like wild fire .
China well knows …. In 2008 America took in only $771 Billion dollars in total Taxes .
It will be far less this year or next year OBM tells us who is totally bipartisan and actually run by Democrats currently .
There has never been a Nation on Earth including FDR that bought their way out of a recession .
What always happens is Interest and Inflation rates goes through the Roof killing the economy , Jobs and Home sales …..
Obama is going down.
National strike on November 4.
“Obama’s “rookie” mistakes and the Dems’ new fears can only make me wonder, are they all that stupid, or were they hoping for a miracle?”
There is a clear answer to that question. Obama is behaving like a child. Every time someone opposes him, he invokes a straw man, and raises his voice (I wonder if it appears in all-caps on the telprompter): “INACTION IS NOT AN OPTION.” Obama’s debates are debates of convenience and ignorance, and would not be tolerated by the public if the media honestly questioned the obviously pathetic argumentative forms.
My sympathies to my fellow Americans for the pejorative: Obama is a moron. He entranced the media with his made-for-TV teleprompter speeches, and despite all his efforts and intentions he is being revealed for the simple-minded and common politican that he is. Morons lack maturity, and the immaturity is showing with every tantrum that he throws on the eve of a “crisis”.
The miracle that many anticipated with Obama’s arrival is yet to come, it will happen when we dig ourselves out of the mess that Obama is creating.
jharp,
You need to be more careful to change the Name field from Mike W. to Jharp. You’re leaving the Mike W, in the field after responding elsewhere and your browser doesn’t clear it.
Perhaps a 3rd personality to coordinate the other two is in order.
Strike?
Never happen.
Oh, we would like to do it. But, there are too many people that would be too afraid of losing their jobs. Then you have the Obama supporters who are always on strike while sitting at home all day.
There would have to be something “cataclismic” happen. I hope it does. Keep us informed.
85 Meryl . . . Is that strike before or after the Tea Party? And what good what it do? We all know that conservatives don’t have jobs anyway.
Yes, Republican party loyalty must always go before loyalty to the country.
Let’s vote NO on everything!
Gud Jerb, y’all!
interesting to see someone post a horror story about health insurance and an unfortunate couple struggling with cancer.
to imply that conservatives are the reason for that is just plain dishonest. you will find a lot more empathy from conservatives then you will liberals. one doesn’t need to be a wise latina to know that is a horrible place to be.
still making it a national health care plan will make that story just one of thousands.it is the government involvement that made it the mess it is now.
it is the government involvement that is causing people to lose jobs. it was the democrates with the lack of a rebuttal from the republicans in the congress that allowed fanny mae and freddy mac to destroy the world markets. ….some congressional members tried to fix that problem …the Bush administration tried to address that problem. they were stopped by the democrates (with support of some republicans)and now they blame the Bush administration.
Jennifer’s right about half the time. This is that half. The Republican “brand” has been hosed by a lot of political operatives who aren’t really wonks to the core, but at this point in history, it doesn’t matter. 0bama (and let’s not forget to give Pelosi credit also) has furnished the GOP with all the brand they need.
It’s enough now to be the undonkey. Independents (and in the end, they’re the only ones who matter) are shocked and awed by the audacity of dope. All the Reps have to do now is not crap in their own punchbowl.
Here’s to housebreaking the elephant.
82. sallie wrote:
WHY???.. DO YOU ALL RESPOND?????
Peter writes: You’re right. I guess some small part of me believed there might actually have been a functioning brain in there somewhere, but after repeated tries I yield to the uselessness of trying and will simply skip jharp’s posts from now on, like I do with other loony libtards like vivo and his crowd.
84. ReConUSMC wrote:
There has never been a Nation on Earth including FDR that bought their way out of a recession .
Peter writes: My favorite Biden gaffe this past week was ‘We Have to Go Spend Money to Keep From Going Bankrupt’
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=51162
Boy, the laughs keep coming with Biden, don’t they?
The Obama Administration is about to become a zombie. It effectively ended when the GOP made certain the public knew the failed stimulus was a Democratic disaster–and it proved to be more rapidly than even the hottest partisan thought.
Party of No? More like the Party of Reason, and the Democrats may be swept out to sea permanently if Republicans continue to challenge this failed president and Democratic-led Congress.
Jharp at 81
Sir:
That nice man doubtless would have kept his first job if the workforce hadn’t unionized ruining productivity and sending the factory abroad. And if people in congress stopped making it more and more difficult to be an employer by tacking on more and more benefits each year.
Your example also shows that the man received his medical care. Now someone has to pay for it. You don’t mention if he smoked–did he? If so, why is he looking for everyone else to pay for his bad habits? That’s not the US either.
When he went to his new job he didn’t buy insurance–did he?
Last, and seriously, it might be beneficial for the Obama administration to focus on this “catastrophic” health care problem, instead of trying to oust private care altogether and add in a goddy bag of preferences and other payoffs. Trying to provide for catastropihic illness has been an issue for almsost 50 years. The government ought to act in that area but has not. Obama seems to be driven by an ideological plan to nationalize health care instead of solving a real problem.
J Harp sounds like one of those privileged minorities who can’t figure out why his daughter’s having her third illegitimate child at the age of 14. Or whether it’s his or not.
I hate to admit this, but I’m becoming a truther. This video hit home with me for some reason and watching those people stand for the Pledge brought tears to my eyes. Not only is Obama a blight on this country, after seeing this video and reading about the soldier going against orders because he’s questioning Obama’s citizenship, I have to come out….I am officially a truther, a birther, an American who now is joining those asking….WHERE IS THE LONG FORM OF OBAMAS BIRTH CERTIFICATE WITH THE DOCTORS SIGNATURE AND THE WITNESSES??? I have one. My kids all have one. My spouse has one. My grandparents long dead have them. Where is Obama’s????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc&e
AThinkingPerson = a proud wingnut Truther
Commuter:
jharp,
“You need to be more careful to change the Name field from Mike W. to Jharp. You’re leaving the Mike W, in the field after responding elsewhere and your browser doesn’t clear it.”
Let me guess. You claim to be a Christian.
Is that accurate?
And then you lie and simply make stuff up. You have learned well from OReilly, Limbaugh, and Haanity among others. I’d feel sorry for you if you and your ilk weren’t destroying our country.
And I’ll say it again. You go to hell for lying just the same as you go to hell for stealing.
#90. Dave K.:
How does bankrupting the country equal showing loyalty to country?
Blackwell:
Jharp at 81
“That nice man doubtless would have kept his first job if the workforce hadn’t unionized ruining productivity and sending the factory abroad.”
Got it. It’s the poor peoples fault. Again.
“And if people in congress stopped making it more and more difficult to be an employer by tacking on more and more benefits each year.”
Hmmm. And that would be the republican controlled congresss from 94 to 06? Right?
“You don’t mention if he smoked–did he? If so, why is he looking for everyone else to pay for his bad habits?”
So just let them die? Right?
“When he went to his new job he didn’t buy insurance–did he?”
And tell me the last time you shopped for health insurance at age 50. Pre existing conditions anyone?
“Last, and seriously, it might be beneficial for the Obama administration to focus on this “catastrophic” health care problem, instead of trying to oust private care altogether”
You are a fool. Obama is going to preserve the private insurers in addressing the catastrophic health care problem.
“Trying to provide for catastropihic illness has been an issue for almsost 50 years. The government ought to act in that area but has not.”
Yes it has. I agree. And who has blocked legislation for 50 years? And what party did nothing while in power for the past 14 out of 16 years?
Hint. Republicans.
Man, I’m thoroughly enjoying this. The more this administration overreaches, the more people are starting to say “Hey, wait a minute!”. And the more people say “Hey, wait a minute!”, the more they overreach. I’m glad I’ve got plenty of popcorn stocked in my pantry; I’m digging in for a real summer blockbuster!
Oh, and jharp: I love you, man. We all do, actually. I’ve been a huge fan of yours for several years, ever since I noticed your witty comments and incisive analysis over at Dan Riehl’s place.
Haven’t seen you post over there in a while – am I missing something?
Eric A.
99. jharp:
Hey jharp (or is it MikeW?), did you even read what commuter wrote? After all you bragged on your education in English. I guess it was debate you failed.
Here’s one for you:
Obama, Pelosi, Reid – miserable failures!
jharp.
deficit neutral?
the hallucinations from drinking the Soros perfume must be pretty intense.
“like, wow, man, it’s like, deficit neutral.”
I think your backyard is calling, it needs more tinkering.
92. Strawman writes:
“It’s enough now to be the undonkey. Independents (and in the end, they’re the only ones who matter) are shocked and awed by the audacity of dope. All the Reps have to do now is not crap in their own punchbowl. Here’s to housebreaking the elephant.”
I thnk you’re right. However, the way things are going, by 2010 people will be so thirsty that they’ll go for the punch in the bowl with less turds in it.
Now just simmer down everyone.
You too, ThinkingPerson. And consider this.
Seems to lil’ole’ blond haired blued eyed 21 year old Rachel that Jharp makes some good points.
Jharp:
“And I’ll say it again. You go to hell for lying just the same as you go to hell for stealing.”
Rachel:
Correctly, as I see it, Jharp believes in God. And I don’t believe that the almighty discriminates when it comes to political party.
So, according to Jharp, since Bill Clinton lied under oath, he’s going to hell.
Since Obama said “no earmarks and signed a bill overflowing with earmarks, Obama’s going there too.
Since George Bush told us the surge was working, George is going to heaven.
And,last but not least, since Jharp says all of us NoBamas are destroying the country when we have no power,(the dems have the magic 60 votes) Jharp is playing fast and loosey goosey with the truthy.
Fact is, we’re not destroying the country by any stretch of the imagination.
Which means that Jharp is hell eligible, too, just like his buddies, Bill and Obama.
From Obama to Jharp, Rachel can’t resist saying, boys, boys, boys, one fine mess after another you’ve gotten us into. Trying to pass government out-of-control healthcare would probably be the coup de grace.
Plus, here’s a lucky strike extra: Jharp, if you support unborn slaughter (abortion), your sentence may be something like double hell.
So, thinking person and commuter and the rest of you, seems like if you really listen to Jharp, and add a dash of deductive reasoning, Jharp really has some interesting stuff to say.
Incidentally, Jharp, pray tell, are you starting to get hot flashes? If so I wouldn’t call the doctor. Undoubtedly, it’s likely just a spiritual foreshadowing.
Gosh, Jhot, I hate to be all negative about your future. Maybe it won’t be so bad if you specify in your will you want to be buried in the best asbestos suit that money can buy.
(Rachel always tries to look for the silver lining.)
I agree that it is a winning message, and shows signs of life in some unusual places: independents are a weird bunch, but it’s pretty clear what they don’t like doing.
Still, I don’t feel like the media or the Democrats are on the retreat, not at all. I think they’ve figured out the trick is to maintain fever pitch: make sure conservatives are still painted as bigots and hypocrites, make sure the world still knows how failed Bush was (even as this is an increasingly dubious proposition), and whatever one does, don’t aim low. Look like you’re having a vision and people who want to like you will get on board, no matter how corrupt and stupid the party you belong to is.
I’m actually less inclined to blame President Obama and the Democrats for this state of affairs: I’m really disgusted with the news media and the fact that the citizenry of the United States refuses to read, despite the wonderful diversity of partisan media in print. My own thought is that the GOP has to make some nod to creating a more informed party, and informed on a deeper level as to why people might want to consider the Republican platform. Republicans should outclass Democrats: just be that much more informed and articulate, and hope that people will want to be Republican. I discuss this in part in “An Open Letter to Sarah Palin” – why is it that media reform may have to involve partisanship?
Way too much space wasted on replying to mindless trolls, I wonder how many readers will plod through the muck (without leaving) and find a brilliant post like this one.
Myth-busting for Demmies: The party of no is actually working for you.
Democrats are for the little guy, the ordinary worker, the poor, etc. Republicans are for big business, CEOs, the rich, etc. Most liberal blogs, rants, and forums nowadays seem to be based on this sophmoric and divisive credo. I submit that it’s a gross mischaracterization of fact, and would like to set the record straight.
By the actions of the current Democrat Congress and Executive, we see that the opposite of the aforementioned credo is true. It is factual that much of the legislation that Democrats are promoting and passing will cause financial harm to the little guy, the ordinary worker, the poor. Republicans are voting no to protect the little guy, the ordinary worker, the poor, big business, CEOs, the rich…all of us, by opposing centralized government intrusion, bailouts, stimulus spending, new taxes, hidden taxes, costs passed along to consumers due to new taxes, and other irresponsible, harmful Democrat policy. Why can’t sensible Democrats run the party again? (Sensible Democrat wasn’t always an oxymoron, I used to be one.)
Soon, we will see the little guy, the ordinary worker, and the poor begin to experience the effects of left-wing policy directly in their wallets, in their failing communities. As jobs and opportunity leave the US, history shows us that a surge of conservatism will result. No amount of trolling can change this fact, so why bother? Educated Democrats will force moderation and sensibility on their party, vote out left-wingers, or defect.
I can hardly wait. It’s already starting, so let’s encourage the process. We need to help re-elect conservatives in Washington, and volunteer to campaign at the local level. Convert libs where you work by presenting conservative ideas and solutions that debunk current policy. Have some fun: Become a lib for a day, hit up some ‘batty blogs, and decry Pelosi and Reid, Waxman and Markey, as though you were a disgruntled Democrat. Distribute US Constitutions and other subversive literature like Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin. These libs must be convinced that there are much better ways of governing than what we are now experiencing. Proven ways. Lawful ways. Beneficial ways. Libertine ways. Thrifty ways. Progressive ways. Ways that benefit all citizens, even neuron-impaired trolls.
“I’m all for progress. I’m against those who would shamelessly progress outside of Constitutional boundaries.”
Rachel, read the real translation from the Hebrew; it says don’t bear false witness; i.e. don’t make false accusations. It doesn’t say “don’t lie”. It doesn’t say “don’t kill” either, btw.
Rachel: Thanks for the levity! It was timely (and warranted).
On topic, you can’t beat something with nothing. It isn’t enough to merely say no. The Republicans have a credible alternative for healthcare which ought to be debated on its merits.
Lest you get too carried away, remember that neither party has yor best interests at heart. Politics attracts authoritarians. None of these people have the humility to consider that they might be wrong, or that their objective might not be worth the cost. The only certainty is that you will pay for everything that they do.
I think Republicans will gain seats in 2010 but not enough to gain control of the House or Senate. We’d have to pick up 40 seats in the House without losing any incumbents to gain control. The Senate is even more unlikely, only 6 Democrat seats are really available, the rest are in extremely blue states. Best guess, we’ll break the supermajority in the Senate in 2010 but it’ll be 2012 or 2014 before we get control of congress again.
Obama will rally Democrats and enough Republicans to pass the bill, despite Republican obstruction.
Republicans had 8 years to do something on health care, and instead they punted, like they always do, because they really don’t give a flying **** about working families going bankrupt over health care costs. But it’s understandable; Republican lawmakers are just frankly too busy nailing each others wives and fleeing to South America to see their mistresses.
Additionally, GOP lawmakers are so deeply in the pocket of the insurance industry that by supporting any plan other than the current one, they are shooting themselves in the foot financially. In essence, they are raising tons of money for their campaign every time they go on Fox News and fearmonger about a public option that 70% of Americans are in favor of. So, of course, Republicans find themselves once again on the side of the debate that is against American families, and of course, the reason they are on that side is because of money.
But the bill will pass, working American families will finally have access to affordable health insurance, President Obama will enjoy a huge wave of popularity, and Democrats will use the momentum to continue passing legislation over the corpses of the GOP lawmakers. And fifty years from now, President Obama will be remembered as the second coming of FDR, while W. will still be remembered as the wost president in the history of the United States.
113 Mike W . . . Correct and courageous. I like the cut of your jib.
Re this ditty from Mike W: “But the bill will pass, working American families will finally have access to affordable health insurance, President Obama will enjoy a huge wave of popularity,…”
Yes, families will get free health care on the backs of the job creators who will then cut jobs to pay for the added expense thus adding to the “needs free health care due to job loss” doles. President Obama will then be faced with EVEN HIGHER unemployment than that we are currently faced with (which Obama claimed would NEVER happen if the stimulus passed).
Obama will be shown (again) to be wrong on the outcome of his “change” and yet more people will come to realize that he was inept from the start (already shown to be happening in polling). Next election will humble the arrogant Mr. Obama and the liberals thankfully and restore the Constitution to it’s rightful place in the US.
Welcome to a bit of reality Mike W. It’s nice to finally see you here.
Mike W: Yet more reality to pop your wee little bubble that the entire world but a handful of Republicans support the great Doh’Bama BS from your comment….
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25189.html
It’s a slippery slope of Obama’s own creation. This is what he gets for shoving his liberal agenda down our throats and declaring “The time for talking is over…”.
Apparently he conveniently forgot who he was working for. Hint to Mike W…it’s NOT JUST YOU.
113. Mike W. wrote:
Obama will rally Democrats and enough Republicans to pass the bill, despite Republican obstruction.
Peter writes: Mikie hasn’t been keeping up on the news, has he? The Republicans are the least of The Won’s problems when his own party is starting to rebel against him.
“Key House Panel Cancels Health Care Session, as Moderate Democrats Voice Concerns”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/21/key-house-panel-cancels-health-care-session-blue-dogs-voice-concerns/
And in case FoxNews isn’t an objective enough source for you;
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE56K3BS20090721
So when does The Won start wearing the black body armor and just dissolve the senate so he can deal with the rebels himself? (sarc)
AThinkingPerson:
“Yes, families will get free health care on the backs of the job creators”
What does it take for you to understand the concept that there is no such thing as free health care. Are you a child?
The bill will pass and American’s will be free to pursue the work of their choice instead of being captive to employer based health insurance.
And that, is what will boost our economy beyond anyone’s wildest imaginations. Small business is the backbone of our economy and more importantly the biggest driver of job creation. And Obamacare is about to free small business from a crippling burden.
116. AThinkingPerson: “Mike W: Yet more reality to pop your wee little bubble that the entire world but a handful of Republicans support the great Doh’Bama BS from your comment….”
Well, apparently you didn’t even read the entire article you posted a link to. From that article:
“But whatever the problems faced by Obama and his party, they still earn higher approval ratings than other Washington leaders or the Republican Party, according to the Public Trust Monitor poll. And the loss in trust in Democrats did not correspond with a gain for the GOP: Trust in Republicans fell from 40 percent in March to 36 percent in the recent survey.”
So the public is a little bit down on the President right now, that makes sense given the state of the economy, but as soon as he passes his health care bill, he’ll be back on top.
But the GOP is dead as a doornail either way. If the health care bill passes, as it most likely will, Republicans will be exposed as wothless and obstructionist and will lose the last scraps of power they desparately cling to. If the health case bill does not pass, Republicans are still less trusted than Democrats because of the last 8 years of total Republican failure.
Liberals have nothing to worry about as long as the GOP continues to be strategically retarded at every opportunity.
118. jharp: “And Obamacare is about to free small business from a crippling burden.”
And this is exactly what the GOP is terrified of. And they should be.
Jharp: with the utmost respect, the government should not be finding new and more oppressive ways to distribute the fruits of my labor to people that maxed out their credit cards, smoked after 1964, maintained 20 plus extra pounds, or thought snorting coke was better than working.
You and people like you, out of misplaced idealism, want to eliminate the penalty side of irresonsible behavior. You want to shift it to all of us and treat the drug users, smokers, endless eaters and non-worker “corner people” as if they have done nothing wrong at all.
This type of thinking has done more damage to the US middle and lower economic and social classes than anything in the past 50 years: the idea that you are entitled not just to fail, but to be irresponsible without consequence. Kids used to be taught that you had to work to eat: now, you work only if you want to. People used to know that you stayed healthy if you could: now you tel us that alifetime of smoking and drugs is no one’s fault and everyone’s responsibility.
We have parents that don’t teach kids how to read; kids that think minimum wage jobs are insulting and prefer welfare. People who spend their money on wide screen tv’s and casinos instead of health isurance. People that insist on smoking (“its my right”) but when it comes time to pay for their enormously expensive treatment, they think its unfair to have to sell their house or pay off the debt–they think its only fair that someone else ought to pay for it.
You want to stop people from using gasoline engines to save “the environment” but inconsistently, won’t adopt stern measures to encourage people not to smoke, eat less and buy insurance. Why? You care more about the “environment” than people?
You are misguided if you think you are an idealist or more kind-hearted than me. You’re not. Your train of thought, commendable in an emergency, is not that way long term: it has made Africa–once a food exporter–into a perrenial international mendicant with starving kids and a disastrous economy. You’ve made the US lower economic 10% convinced that they really don’t have to work or read. And then we have people like your man, doubtless smoking since a teenager, stunned that he has to pay for his own medical care (instead of taking money from my kids mouth’s for his problem).
Obama’s national health acre isn’t going to “free” anyone from a burden. Its going to do what all other subsidized services do: increase availability, increase cost. and be worse in the long run. Ask anyone that uses the postal service, Amtrack, VA care, or needs to get a pothole fixed with less than 4 workers.
120. Mike W. wrote:
118. jharp: “And Obamacare is about to free small business from a crippling burden.”
And this is exactly what the GOP is terrified of. And they should be.
Peter writes: Yeah, you’re right. He’s going to free small business from a crippling burden by eliminating small businesses entirely with his Cap & Tax and Health Care proposal.
No small businesses/no crippling burden = problem solved in the Dumbocrat’s eyes.
And for those of you out there who are convinced Mike W and jharp are the same, do you chuckle over Mikie citing jharp’s comment too?
Blackwell:
So if a fellow American gets sick your solution is to just let them die.
Good one.
Never mind the mother of 4 with advanced breast cancer who has taken excellent care of herself. No insurance? Sorry. No treatment. Better luck next time.
That’ll teach them all a lesson.
You are a sick and twisted man. And an imbecile.
Bubblehead,
Have you ever like “been in business”. Or had to buy health insurance on the open market?
Or had to buy health insurance with a pre existing condition?
Try it one time before posting such idiocy.
Great article, I especially liked the ‘Rokie’ mistake…so true, however with Obamas ego what else could he do but go with his gut feelings ultra left, anti america, socialist, and more people are seeing the ‘Emperor without his clothes’. I look forward to 2010 and I sincerely hope the chiken sh__ Republicans don’t blow it like they did before!
Jharp at 124:
If you read my first post–or have it read to you–you’ll see my endorsement of catastrophic health care. Everyone must get such care–but not free of financial responsibility depending on the causes and other factors.
As I said, you’re not an idealist. You have a soft head, not a big heart.
121. Blackwell: “Obama’s national health acre isn’t going to “free” anyone from a burden. Its going to do what all other subsidized services do: increase availability, increase cost. and be worse in the long run. Ask anyone that uses the postal service, Amtrack, VA care, or needs to get a pothole fixed with less than 4 workers.”
WTF is wrong with the postal service? I use it all the time and I’ve never had a letter or package lost. Frankly, I’d much rather have the postal service running health care.
I’m also sick of whiny conservative morons moaning about how terrible the federal government is. You wouldn’t even be typing your meaningless bull**** on this Web site right now had the federal government not invested billions of dollars in the computer industry and in the birth and formation of the Internet. left to private industry, much of the computer technology would never have come to market and, in the case of the Internet, the result would have been less innovative and less of an economic engine for growth. In fact, it’s unclear that the integrated communication and information exchange that is the hallmark of the federally created Internet would have even occurred out of the private visions and competition of industry.
This is the problem with ignorant conservatives. They whine and bitch about limiting spending, and shrinking the federal government, but in their ignorance they simply don’t understand how much the Federal government has had a role in ushering in every new technology we use, from aviation to television to medecine and satellite technology.
Without a large federal government that is capable of shelling out billions of dollars to develop and support new technology, you right-wingers would be practically living in the stone age right now.
What a bunch of lousy hypocrites.
Blackwell:”Last, and seriously, it might be beneficial for the Obama administration to focus on this “catastrophic” health care problem, instead of trying to oust private care altogether and add in a goddy bag of preferences and other payoffs. Trying to provide for catastropihic illness has been an issue for almsost 50 years. The government ought to act in that area but has not. Obama seems to be driven by an ideological plan to nationalize health care instead of solving a real problem.”
I missed it. Sorry it’s hard to keep track.
Yet even this post is utter nonsense.
Obama is not trying to oust private care. Hell he isn’t even trying to oust private insurance.
And you are right that this has been an issue for 50 years. And the democrats have been trying to do something about it for 50 years. And it has been blocked by the GOP at every turn.
That, is about to end.
“Without a large federal government that is capable of shelling out billions of dollars to develop and support new technology, you right-wingers would be practically living in the stone age right now.”
Mentally they are living in the stone age. Witness the wingnuts who believe the earth is 6,000 years old.
Oh, lordy. How did we get along without Big Fed before? Or is history bunk?
Blah blah blah WINGNUT blah blah blah WINGNUT blah blah blah WINGNUT blah blah blah WINGNUT blah blah blah WINGNUT.
Quitter!!!11
6000 years,
CKIAH
jharp: Re “What does it take for you to understand the concept that there is no such thing as free health care. Are you a child?”
Um, no, not a “child”, just a tax-paying citizen who hasn’t bought into Doh-Bama’s lies like apparently you have. The concept of “free health care” is not mine friend. It’s what Doh’Bama is using to sell this atrocity to the unthinking, non-taxpaying, uneducated electorate. Where you fit in that equation is debatable.
Why you think taxing small business owners more during a recession is a wonderful idea is why you voted for Obama. I’m guessing you’re not a total idiot, just very undereducated to be making such important decisions. Why you think having the government come between you and your health care provider also says a lot about your income and education level jharp. Get a job, pay taxes, save for retirement and then tell me having the government be in charge of anything is a good idea.
Read slowly jharp: More taxes on small businesses (those “rich” people who will be burdened with paying for Obama’s socialist plan) = LESS JOBS = MORE RECESSION = MORE PEOPLE NEEDING FREE HEALTH CARE.
Glad support for this insanity is even finally crumbling inside the democratic party.
Why the liberals want MORE people to be poor and dependent on the government is beyond me. Why don’t you explain that for us all jharp?
I finally get how jharp and Mike W are buying the “health care Obama-style” crap sandwich. They are believing his BS! They actually believe it will “free small businesses of the burden” of providing health care. Hello? Can they spell SOCIALIZED MEDICINE?
I guess in their little world, waiting months for an MRI like they do in Canada is a good thing? Typical liberal mindset.
Wasn’t Obama also the one who said that if his genius stimulus plan went through, unemployment wouldn’t rise past 8%? I’m guessing they bought that crap sandwich too.
Here is a simple explanation even a simpleton like Harpo can understand…if Harpo would only read it.
http://townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2009/07/21/medical_care_confusion?page=1
AThinkingPerson:”The concept of “free health care” is not mine friend.”
It most certainly is. You were the one who used the term. And Obama has not used the term even once. Turn off Limbaugh and Hannity. They are the liars who coin the term and bozos like you echo it.
“Get a job, pay taxes, save for retirement and then tell me having the government be in charge of anything is a good idea.”
And I have an accounting degree from a Big Ten University. And started my own business 25 years ago. And I have fought the insurance companies for decades. Obviously you have no experience with this as the worst case scenario is exactly where we are now. An insurance bureaucrat in between me and my health care provider, a bureaucrat who profits by denying coverage and denying claims. And there isn’t a damn thing one can do about it.
And that same bureaucrat has delivered to the American people the most expensive health care system in the world. By double.
For the same level of care.
Yeah, I’ll tell having the a government single payer system is far superior to our system, or at the least a public plan to compete with the private insurers. I’ve seen it. Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Australia,… all deliver the same level of care as the U.S. For half the cost
Fred Beloit:
Hi Fred. Long time no see. I hope you are well.
Thomas Sowell is either a moron or nothing but a right wing hack.
His opening sentence is a lie. “Is there a coherent argument for government-controlled medical care or are slogans and hysteria considered sufficient?”
The government isn’t going to control health care. Period. The are going to offer a public insurance plan to compete with private insurers.
And he follows it with this lie “they can always go to a hospital emergency room and receive treatment there, whether or not they have insurance.”
Out and out false. Try sending the Mrs. to the hospital with breast cancer for treament. No insurance and no money = no treatment.
And Sowell closes with this whopper. “The point is that health care is largely in your hands.”
Complete and utter BS. Your health care decisions are in the hands of an insurance compnay who profits immensely by denying claims.
Sowell is writing to appeal to the lowest intelligence level. And it works. The problem for the GOP is the lowest intelligence level is now only 20% of Americans. The GOP base.
#jharp
Are you a trial lawyer? How about tort reform? That would save the medical profession about 3 billion a year.
Oh yeah, ‘bama wants the elderly to take pain pills, call hospice and get the hell out of the way.
So much for the “caring” party.
Tomp:
#jharp
“Are you a trial lawyer? How about tort reform? That would save the medical profession about 3 billion a year.”
Not a lawyer and it’s only 1% of our health care costs.
J Harp sounds like one of those privileged minorities who can’t figure out why his daughter’s having her third illegitimate child at the age of 14. Or whether it’s his or not.
Nope. He’s a rich white guy who wants the government to redistribute wealth upward so that he doesn’t have to pay the full costs of individual health insurance–and enjoys the advantages of being self-employed, and doesn’t want the consequences of therefore not having group health insurance.
In my experience, the richer someone is, the more they like “progressive” ideas, which are closer to fascism than socialism.
And he follows it with this lie “they can always go to a hospital emergency room and receive treatment there, whether or not they have insurance.”
Out and out false. Try sending the Mrs. to the hospital with breast cancer for treament. No insurance and no money = no treatment.
Try again. Hospital E/Rs may not turn away patients. (It may take a while.) Hill-Burton Act of 1946 mandates this.
Hello there, Harp. The opening sentence you call a lie is a question. How can a question be a lie? And you are casually and incorrectly saying what the Congress might pass, and which they haven’t read, doesn’t involve the government controlling sick care costs? This is untrue; of course it will enable the government to control sick care and the costs thereof. If this isn’t true, why are they making claims that costs will be reduced and money saved by the program?
“Out and out false. Try sending the Mrs. to the hospital with breast cancer for treament. No insurance and no money = no treatment.”
Clayton E. Cramer: Try again. Hospital E/Rs may not turn away patients.
No Clayton, you try again. Who said anything about getting treated at the emergency room?
In case you didn’t know breast cancer treatments are not done in the emergency room.
“Nope. He’s a rich white guy who wants the government to redistribute wealth upward so that he doesn’t have to pay the full costs of individual health insurance–and enjoys the advantages of being self-employed, and doesn’t want the consequences of therefore not having group health insurance.”
Wrong again Clayton. I’m middle class.
And I would be happy to pay the full costs of health insurance. My complaint is paying twice what everyone else has access to simply because I started my own business.
Where you work should have nothing to do with your access to health care. Period.
And Obama is fixing to do something about it.
And it’s gonna happen.
Fred Beloit:
“Hello there, Harp. The opening sentence you call a lie is a question. How can a question be a lie?”
Sowell “Is there a coherent argument for government-controlled medical care or are slogans and hysteria considered sufficient?”
The lie is the intimation that “government controlled medical care” is in the debate.
Not only is medical care not to be government controlled. Neither is health insurance.
Clear?
‘And he follows it with this lie “they can always go to a hospital emergency room and receive treatment there, whether or not they have insurance.”’
You’ve proved before that you do not understand the difference between acute and chronic care. Sowell isn’t lying.
‘Out and out false. Try sending the Mrs. to the hospital with breast cancer for treament. No insurance and no money = no treatment. ‘
Where would YOU send her for treatment? Where else would she get treatment for breast cancer? The grocery store? It’s becoming clearer why you think health care is broken. You can’t find what you need in the produce section.
140, the most amazing thing that I’ve noticed about that is how people will judge their own wealth by the goodies that their neighbors have rather than going to the computer and looking up the statistics, and figuring out your percentile. It’s not rocket science. And yet, people making upward of $200k think of themselves as “middle class”, and are now shocked that their messiah wants to tax them.
To anyone who understands what the income distribution numbers look like, the idea that he was going to only tax those making over $250k was preposterous on its face. I’m flabbergasted that so many people didn’t see through that like a glass bottomed boat.
But then again, there is that group of wealthy people who never earned their wealth. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that they’re so clueless. After all, what’s the point of having a clue when you have all the cash you want?
‘And he follows it with this lie “they can always go to a hospital emergency room and receive treatment there, whether or not they have insurance.”’
You’ve proved before that you do not understand the difference between acute and chronic care. Sowell isn’t lying.
‘Out and out false. Try sending the Mrs. to the hospital with breast cancer for treament. No insurance and no money = no treatment. ‘
Where would YOU send her for treatment? Where else would she get treatment for breast cancer?
I have no idea what in the hell you are getting at but my point is emergency rooms are not required to treat everything.
I suppose you believe if I show up needing a heart transplant that they can’t turn me away.
You are a dope. Have you figured out what a tax credit is yet? Or what % benefited from Obama’s tax cuts. Hint. About 95%.
147. Strawman wrote:
To anyone who understands what the income distribution numbers look like, the idea that he was going to only tax those making over $250k was preposterous on its face. I’m flabbergasted that so many people didn’t see through that like a glass bottomed boat.
Peter writes: A lot of us did see it during the campaign. Unfortunately we were shouted down by the Obama worshippers who insisted “No! He’s only going to tax the RICH!” And meanwhile the ‘definition’ of rich kept getting lower and lower and lower.
How about this one gang?
The RNC National Chairman relying on the taxpayers to fall back on in case of a health catastrophe.
Shocking. Utterly shocking. Yet very very good for democrats. The GOP is toast.
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/republican-national-committee/flashback-steele-lacked-health-insurance-for-years-told-kids-not-to-break-anything/
Hoo boy, this one’s rich. Turns out that RNC chair Michael Steele, who agreed approvingly that health care failure could be Obama’s “Waterloo,” himself lacked health insurance for years and even advised his own children not to get hurt because he couldn’t afford to pay their medical bills.
A Democrat points out that these revelations can be found two pieces about Steele that ran during his failed 2006 Maryland Senate campaign. In November of that year, The Washington Post reported on Steele’s opposition to universal health care this way:
Steele’s position reflects his experience as a self-employed consultant who went for three years without health insurance.
Steele even confessed on the stump that this led him to tell his kids to take extra care with their health, according to an October 2006 WaPo article:
He told an audience in a recent speech that his family went without health insurance for three years.
“Don’t break anything, because Daddy can’t afford to fix it,” he recalled telling his sons then.
147. Strawman wrote:
To anyone who understands what the income distribution numbers look like, the idea that he was going to only tax those making over $250k was preposterous on its face. I’m flabbergasted that so many people didn’t see through that like a glass bottomed boat.
Peter writes: A lot of us did see it during the campaign. Unfortunately we were shouted down by the Obama worshippers who insisted “No! He’s only going to tax the RICH!” And meanwhile the ‘definition’ of rich kept getting lower and lower and lower.
Peter and Strawman,
I’m an educated man who has traveled and traded all over the world for 25 years.
And I have no idea what you are getting at.
Surely you aren’t referring to the Obama tax cuts that lowered taxes for 95% of us. And I’m not aware of him raising any income taxes.
Please clear this up for me.
And by the way, you RNC chairman could use a little help getting health insurance for his family.
‘Surely you aren’t referring to the Obama tax cuts that lowered taxes for 95% of us. ‘
Harpo, you have a very short memory span.
The party of “No” in 2010? I don’t think so. Some of us are keeping tabs on all the “nos” and look forward to using those no votes against the GOP. That might also include a few Democrats as well.
As bad as the GOP are the teabaggers are worse.
‘I have no idea what in the hell you are getting at etc’
Do tell, harpo. I’ve noticed that you claim you’re unable to comprehend a great deal. The question is whether you claim a statement is incomprehensible because you can’t respond coherently, or you can’t respond coherently because you’re ignorant and it actually is incomprehensible to you.
Let me help. If you could not understand that Sowell was talking about acute care, you should shut your yap on the subject of health care.
‘You are a dope. Have you figured out what a tax credit is yet? Or what % benefited from Obama’s tax cuts. Hint. About 95%.’
Harpo, harpo. You haven’t a clue about how a tax credit works any more than you do health care. You backpedal, disclaim your original wording, morph your statements until they are in line with what the commenters were saying who pointed out how ignorant you were, and then pretend you had that position all along. You get pounded for your confused thoughts and ludicrous statements constantly. Think you’d learn.
It’s like talking to a 13 year old. No one who has run a business for 25 years is as generally ignorant, as sloppy a thinker, as poor a writer,and as literally challenged as you are. I no longer believe any of your BS, including your tales of personal woe over health care. I think you’re just the usual run of the mill progressive tool trying to manufacture a fantasy life online.
And I’m Kermit the Frog.
jharp.
“I’m an educated man who has traveled and traded all over the world for 25 years.”
Obviously.
Hmmm…Obama lowered taxes for 95% of us, did he? And just how did he lower them for the 35-40% of workers who pay no federal income tax? Do some math and stop repeating this ridiculous falsehood. The Democrats are constantly lying, and I’m here to “clear up” the record for you. Be careful when you blindly repeat what you hear from Democrat leaders…it usually isn’t true.
157#
He repeats the ignorant tax cut for 95% of Americans claim (or ‘ for 95% of us’ in this case) at some point in every thread he posts in.
Piece of work, harpo is.
By the way, according to the final figures just published for all 2008 income tax returns by the IRS, 46.7% of filers ended up paying no income tax for 2008. With the job losses, expect that figure to rise for 2009. That number gets income redistribution from taxes other people pay, not a tax cut. Not necessarily a bad thing in these times. A lot of people are struggling. But it’s no tax cut.
Commuter:
“If you could not understand that Sowell was talking about acute care, you should shut your yap on the subject of health care.”
Too funny. Since Sowell didn’t mention acute care even one time how was I to assume anything.
And what about chronic care? How do the uninsured go about getting those treatments.
Sowell is a liar. And you and your ilk are his enablers.
HawkWatcher:
“Hmmm…Obama lowered taxes for 95% of us, did he?”
Yes, he did.
“And just how did he lower them for the 35-40% of workers who pay no federal income tax?”
Like this.
http://rushhannitywatch.200gigs.com/rush/obama-tax-cut-95-working-americans-lie/
Tax credits may be characterized as either refundable or non-refundable, or equivalently non-wastable or wastable. Refundable or non-wastable tax credits can reduce the tax owed below zero, and result in a net payment to the taxpayer beyond their own payments into the tax system, appearing to be a moderate form of negative income tax. Examples of refundable tax credits include the earned income tax credit and the additional child tax credit in the U.S., and working tax credits or child tax credits in the UK.
Thus the ARRA (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, the proper name for the stimulus bill) tax credit is refundable, meaning you can receive the full amount of the credit you qualify for, even if you owe less income tax than that total.
This has been criticized in the right-wing media as “cutting checks for people who don’t pay taxes,” or in other words, straight-up welfare. There are two fallacies prevalent in that argument.
First, if we’re going to call refundable tax credits welfare for people who don’t pay taxes, we must include the EITC (Earned Income Tax Credit) and the CTC (Child Tax Credit), both of which are also refundable tax credits. Additionally, they may have to un-canonize Saint Reagan, who greatly expanded the EITC in 1986. This has the added bonus of implicating Saint Reagan in the expansion of “welfare” (if the right insists on calling refundable tax credits that), contradicting Reagan’s spoken opposition to welfare.
Second, the refundable tax credits do cut checks for people whose income tax liability may be lower than the credit. Conveniently forgotten by the pundits are the myriad other taxes the poor pay — like 15.3% payroll tax for Social Security and Medicare, which comes right off the top from the very first dollar earned (if not self-employed, only half of that is seen directly in their paycheck; the other 7.65% is reflected in wages being lower than they would be without the employer-mandated contribution). There is also the federal gasoline tax, along with state sales taxes, state income taxes, and so on.
‘Too funny. Since Sowell didn’t mention acute care even one time how was I to assume anything.’
Perhaps because of the the quote you pasted into your comment, ‘“they can always go to a hospital emergency room and receive treatment there, whether or not they have insurance.’ One of the quotes you used to claim Sowell was a liar.
Hospital emergency rooms are for acute care. Not chronic care. As you do not understand that simplest facet of health care, why would anyone credit you with understanding any other facet?
Again, since you can’t grasp the simplest aspects of the debate, you should shut your yap and let the adults discuss the issue without interruption.
“Hospital emergency rooms are for acute care. Not chronic care. As you do not understand that simplest facet of health care, why would anyone credit you with understanding any other facet?”
Oh I understand Mr. Master of the Obvious. My best friend in Cleveland and my neighbor are both ER docs.
And Sowell the liar made no distinction for the under educated who read his column.
Sowell’s sole purpose was to mislead the uninformed(conservatives) into believing that the uninsured can simply go to the emergency room for treatment. Seriously, Commmuter, we’re talking a group(conservatives) that don’t even understand the difference between single payer, socialized medicine, and a public insurance option.
And what about those who need chronic care and lack insurance? Just let them die?
Sowell is a liar. Thank God only 20% of American’s are buying his BS.
‘Second, the refundable tax credits etc.’
I see. The Federal income tax credit is not income redistribution to people not paying Federal income tax because you assign it as offsetting taxes they pay other than Federal income tax.
Have I got that right? Do you have any inkling at all about what you’re talking about?
Shame if the recipient smokes a pack of cigarettes a day though. By your logic, the increased taxes on tobacco wipe out the tax credit largess and the poor recipient of the tax credit is paying more taxes.
Let’s avoid that pitfall and not take the liberty of assigning the tax credit as offsetting one particular tax. Let’s instead assign it to the recipients Pampers bill for the year and call it a Pampers’ Credit? That way you can claim that Obama cut the Pampers bill for 95% of Americans, (or whatever your latest phraseology for the tax credit effects is).
I think you’ll end up running head first into yourself before long and claim that you meant that Obama’s tax credit raised taxes on 95% of Americans all along and we were too ignorant to get it.
‘My best friend in Cleveland and my neighbor are both ER docs.’
And this means?
That aside, it doesn’t take much education to understand that emergency rooms are for acute care. That you don’t understand does not mean that anyone else who has been in an emergency room even once is that dense.
Oh, and by the way, it appears that the latest Rasmussen poll of likely voters indicates that over 50% oppose congressional health care reform. I’m not sure what your 20% means, but percentages aren’t your strong suit.
“it doesn’t take much education to understand that emergency rooms are for acute care.”
Agreed
“That you don’t understand does not mean that anyone else who has been in an emergency room even once is that dense.”
I do understand. I made that clear.
What about those without insurance who need chronic care? Let them die? The liar Sowell failed to address this.
“I’m not sure what your 20% means”
The percentage of American’s who are republicans.
Commuter:
“I see. The Federal income tax credit is not income redistribution to people not paying Federal income tax because you assign it as offsetting taxes they pay other than Federal income tax.”
“Have I got that right?”
Bingo! Congratulations.
I knew if one would take the time to read even the dimmest bulbs could understand it.
‘I do understand. I made that clear.’
No, you didn’t. What was clear was that you called him a liar because you didn’t understand.
Sowell failing to address chronic care does not make him a liar because you bounced a chronic care example against an article about hospital emergency care. Your calling him a liar would make you one if you understood the difference between chronic and acute care. As I have no indication you do, I think you called him one because your grasp of health care issues is superficial at best. Which is, as I said, why you should shut your yap on the subject.
‘Bingo! Congratulations.’
You’re serious? My characterization of the twisted self serving logic on rushannitywatch makes sense to you? That’s what you consider not being a dim bulb?
harpo, do not open your yap again about how taxes work either. Too much danger of your brain rolling out between your teeth.
“I see. The Federal income tax credit is not income redistribution to people not paying Federal income tax because you assign it as offsetting taxes they pay other than Federal income tax.”
“Have I got that right?”
Bingo! Congratulations.
You’re serious?
Of course I’m serious.
Let’s go thru Commuter’s logic.
John Doe earns 5,263 in fiscal year 2009.
John owes no federal income tax.
John owes $400 in payroll taxes.
Obama’s $400 tax credit reduces John’s total tax liability to $0.
Using wingnut logic, Obama did not cut John Doe’s taxes.
And what about those who need chronic care who lack insurance? this will be the third time you’ve ignored my question. Let them die?
Let’s go thru harpo’s logic.
John Doe earns 5,263 in fiscal year 2009.
John owes no federal income tax.
John owes $400 in payroll taxes.
Obama’s $400 income tax credit reduces John’s total tax liability to $0 using harpo’s rules, which are that income tax credits can be claimed as tax cuts even if the recipient pays no income taxes as long as the recipient pays any taxes at all.
Unfortunately, between tobacco and fuel tax increases, Obama’s other tax hikes cost John Doe $1000 in increased taxes. Using harpo’s rules, as these fall under ‘pays any taxes at all’ we put that in the any tax paid column.
Using harpo logic, Obama cut John Doe’s taxes by raising John Doe’s taxes by $600.
However, Obama did redistribute income from someone else’s income to keep John Doe’s taxes from increasing by $1000.
“Unfortunately, between tobacco and fuel tax increases, Obama’s other tax hikes cost John Doe $1000 in increased taxes.”
Fuel taxes increases? I am not aware of any. Please provide a link.
And you are right Obama increased the taxes on cigarettes. A tax I highly support. It should be $3 a pack.
And too damn funny. For someones tax bill to go up $1,000 they’d have to smoke 31 packs a week.
And it’s a completely voluntary tax. Don’t smoke if you don’t want to pay it.
However it has nothing to do with the fact that Obama cut taxes for 95% of us.
And I’ll ask for the 4th time since you’ve ignored the previous 3 times I’ve asked.
What about those who need chronic care who lack insurance? Let them die?
‘And too damn funny. For someones tax bill to go up $1,000 they’d have to smoke 31 packs a week.’
There’s the numerically challenged harpo at it again.
harpo, if someone smokes a pack a day, which is 7 packs a week, with a $.60 tax increase on each pack, that’s $219 a year. I just asked my 8 year old. If two people in the household smoke, that’s $418 a year. And so on. So if just two people in a single income household that doesn’t pay any income tax smoke a pack a day, Obama’s income tax credit just went negative.
Or do you believe that the tobacco tax increase is just on income tax filers?
‘Fuel taxes increases? I am not aware of any. Please provide a link.’
Please read the news before opening your piehole. It’s called Cap and Trade. Hasn’t passed yet, and probably won’t, but it is a legislative imperative for your boy, Obama, so you’ll find some way to justify it. Puts it on your plate.
We don’t need it for the discussion though. The Tobacco tax does the trick.
‘And it’s a completely voluntary tax. Don’t smoke if you don’t want to pay it.’
It’s a tax hike by Obama. Being voluntary is irrelevent. So is making over $250K a year.
‘Obama cut taxes for 95% of us.’
There you go again harpo.
“Please read the news before opening your piehole. It’s called Cap and Trade. Hasn’t passed yet, and probably won’t”
Yet you include it in your claim that Obama raised taxes. Are you a schizophrenic? Not that there is anything wrong with that but you need to get yourself some help.
And the percentage of Americans who smoke cigarettes has fallen below 20% for the first time since at least the mid-1960s.
So 20% of American’s who might smoke a pack a day(unlikely), just got socked with a $219 annual tax.
Offset of course, by a $400 tax credit.
http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20081113/smoking-rate-is-declining-in-us
You, my friend. Blinded by Limbaugh, Hannity, and Fox, are an utter fool.
Go to school son. Ignorant and believing wingnut gasbags doesn’t do any of us any good.
Again, ‘Obama cut taxes for 95% of us.’
Commuter:
‘And too damn funny. For someones tax bill to go up $1,000 they’d have to smoke 31 packs a week.’
There’s the numerically challenged harpo at it again.
“harpo, if someone smokes a pack a day, which is 7 packs a week, with a $.60 tax increase on each pack, that’s $219 a year.”
I missed this. Sorry. My bad.
Using YOUR number “Obama’s other tax hikes cost John Doe $1000 in increased taxes”
And 219 times 5 = 1095(your number)
And 7 packs a week times 5 = 35 packs(my number)
My math was correct.
And seriously, what is wrong with you? In the face of irrefutable evidence, as plain as can be be, you continue to deny the obvious.
That Obama cut taxes for 95% of us.
I can’t wait until Obamacare passes(he was brilliant tonight). I figure fools like you will be too embarrassed to even post anonymously on message boards.
And that would be a good thing. We suffer from enough ignorance in this country.
That bibble-babble lib website was hilarious! No wonder their brains are convoluted in such an incomprehensible fashion as they are.
Remember what you learned in elementary school? You can’t subtract from the number zero. The 95% hogwash is exactly that.
Obama has not changed any payroll tax outside of federal income tax. He has no authority to do otherwise. The 46% who already were paying no federal income tax did not get a tax cut.
As an aside, many of these non-contributing earners received money from other taxpayers, who had absolutely no say in where their money went. That’s just wrong.
HawkWatcher: Remember what you learned in elementary school? You can’t subtract from the number zero.
You must have dropped out after the 2nd grade.
0 – 2 = -2
“The 46% who already were paying no federal income tax did not get a tax cut.”
Flat out false. Those 46% did get a tax cut. $400 for individuals, $800 for couples.
All in all the tax cut benefited 95% of us.
harpo, I used your new rules and the fuel as a hypothetical tax when you decided to change the rules and claim that the income redistribution federal tax credit could be applied to any tax you wanted in order to claim your debunked 95% tax cut figure. That was illustrating a point. That point was that if you want to use those rules, then include all federal taxes, not just the ones in a paycheck. I followed it up in another post with more specifics showing that in the case of smokers, and they concentrate in households, they could already be behind the game by your rules. I also pointed out in another comment that I could play harder by your rules and assign the income tax credit to anything I wanted and call it a Pampers credit.
The core concept is that the feel good campaign promise and the subsequent legislation was presented, touted, and bragged about as an income tax credit that would exclude an arbitrary group defined as the rich not paying their fair share and reduce the income taxes paid by an fantasy number that can’t be supported using readily available figures.
My beef with you started on another thread when you were vulgarly attacking the Tea Party people, who’ve long ago realized that taxes across the board, using the 95% sham. Pointed out to you then that they were magnitudes smarter than you or the other tools on the sites you link to because they do realize that and are doing something proactive about it.
Which I believe both scares the clown class you belong to and makes you extremely uncomfortable holding onto a position that people you call redneck teabaggers easily see as a fools stock in trade.
Your 95% claim, in any of it’s iterations, has gotten old, harpo. There is a dolt here. It’s you. That’s a common attribute for tools like yourself who are so eager to be used by the manipulators that you toss aside any pretense of intellectual honesty. Just to be a member of the cools kids.
All your gyrations, all the morphing of your positions, and all the ignorance and dishonesty they indicate, has been a futile exercise in trying to support a position that no one but the tools have accepted as anything but an increasingly desperate POTUS’ shell game for months now.
Increasingly desperate enough to reveal his very disquieting confusion on how to salvage his game on prime time television. A performance you call brilliant. Which reveals all we need to know about about your sycophancy and explains the derisive lack of independent and serious thought we get from you.
Manipulators don’t use sharp tools, harpo. They use dull ones.
‘fantasy number that can’t be supported using readily available figures.’
should be: ‘fantasy number, can’t be supported using readily available figures.’
‘who’ve long ago realized that taxes across the board’
should be: ‘who’ve long ago realized that taxes across the board are rising’
Commuter:
“harpo, I used your new rules and the fuel as a hypothetical tax when you decided to change the rules and claim that the income redistribution federal tax credit could be applied to any tax you wanted in order to claim your debunked 95% tax cut figure.”
There aren’t any “new rules”. Those are the rules and have always been the rules. And the rules don’t apply to any federal tax. (gasoline and cigarette taxes being a good example) The wingnut gas bags claim that 46% of those receiving Obama’s tax credit don’t pay any taxes is flat out false. It sole intention is to mislead and that is dishonest. It’s just that simple.
And I don’t belong to any “group”. I graduated college and started my own business at age 23 and have been at it for 25 years. And I have traveled all over the world (4 continents)as well as throughout the United States. And based on my life’s experiences and my education I have learned to deal in facts and to think for myself. You ought to try it.
And it disgusts me me hear gasbags like Limbaugh lie and obfuscate about 46% of the tax cut recipients don’t pay any taxes. And then his dittohead minions pick it up and run with it.
It is a lie and you know it. And as a patriotic American I refuse to sit back and watch this lie spread.
The fact is 95% of us benefited from Obama’s tax cuts.
harpo, you are one of the most consistent liars I’ve run across on blogs, and that’s saying a lot. I’ve seen you on other blogs displaying your appalling ignorance, then disappear as the moderator has enough and bans you. In the last few weeks you’ve set up shop under the jharp line on this site to advocate for the same progressive claptrap here.
I can only think that the moderators here allow you to stick around as an example of the worst of the lies that the progressives offer and one of the duller examples of the tools they use to spread them. And to your credit, you rise to the challenge.
Here’s another fact to deal with. I do not believe for one moment that you are anything other than a young, immature, and extremely poorly educated example of the typical cannon fodder the progressive left uses and discards.
Commuter:
“harpo, you are one of the most consistent liars I’ve run across”
Care to prove your point and cite one lie I’ve posted? I didn’t think so.
“Here’s another fact to deal with. I do not believe for one moment that you are”
I am what I say I am. I’m not always right but I always tell the truth.
And for the fifth time.
What about those who need chronic care who lack insurance? Let them die?
The party of “no.” More like the party of “doh.” With all apologies to Homer Simpson.
“What about those who need chronic care who lack insurance? Let them die?”
NEVER. Maybe one of those people with chronic conditions will someday find a cure for what ails them. Providing the poor wretch lives long enough without insurance. Obama’s health care proposal will save lives and help reduce the deficit.
Pat J:
“What about those who need chronic care who lack insurance? Let them die?”
“NEVER. Maybe one of those people with chronic conditions will someday find a cure for what ails them. Providing the poor wretch lives long enough without insurance. Obama’s health care proposal will save lives and help reduce the deficit.”
————————————————
You will find yourself in the minority here.
The belief here is to first have the unhealthy lose everything they have worked their entire lives to accumulate.
And in the meantime let them worry about the expenses instead of focusing on getting well.
And one minor point. Whether or not the find a cure is not the issue. It has a lot to do with quality of life during the experience.
And these people call themselves Christians.
Go figure.
I’m definitely in the minority jharp. Unlike a lot of these posters you actually make sense.