Comments on: The Next Round in Iraq http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-next-round-in-iraq/ Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:29:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: WhyamInotsurprised? http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-next-round-in-iraq/#comment-363307 WhyamInotsurprised? Thu, 30 Jul 2009 06:14:34 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=62763#comment-363307 #1 Professor, I don't think anyone is betting for or against. Dem's wanted Bush to fail period. Barry wants America to fail period. Bush wanted democracy and peace to have a chance (to paraphrase John Lennon) in the middle east and he made a down payment in that direction. I agree with #3 Peter that I am not optimistic especially when our current Fearless Reader wants to disengage when this kind of effort would require continuing support and effort for at least a couple generations to bear fruit. This is a long time. Bush said it would be a long time but unfortunately did not specify. Americans don't have a long attention span, even for marriage. But the geo-political/economic consequences of this gamble will affect future generations. Simply pulling out according to a political timeline is like Clinton withdrawing from Somalia because we didn't like the cost involved. It totally wastes the investments made to that point. And at this point would make the 4,500 American lives and other allied lives an investment that will not see fruit. Unlike, #2 Peggy (and I do thank her and her husband for their service) I don't believe that the smiles will remain in the memories for long after the atrocities to be visited on them by Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The worst part is that they, AQ and Taliban are kin to Our Dear Leader, they are freedom fighters of the world, the oppressed, the poor, fighting against American imperialism and we should apologize more and eventually suffer and pay for our sins. To bad Barry doesn't learn that these people never build anything, just destroy and kill. That is Islam today. #1 Professor, I don’t think anyone is betting for or against. Dem’s wanted Bush to fail period. Barry wants America to fail period. Bush wanted democracy and peace to have a chance (to paraphrase John Lennon) in the middle east and he made a down payment in that direction.

I agree with #3 Peter that I am not optimistic especially when our current Fearless Reader wants to disengage when this kind of effort would require continuing support and effort for at least a couple generations to bear fruit. This is a long time. Bush said it would be a long time but unfortunately did not specify. Americans don’t have a long attention span, even for marriage. But the geo-political/economic consequences of this gamble will affect future generations.

Simply pulling out according to a political timeline is like Clinton withdrawing from Somalia because we didn’t like the cost involved. It totally wastes the investments made to that point. And at this point would make the 4,500 American lives and other allied lives an investment that will not see fruit. Unlike, #2 Peggy (and I do thank her and her husband for their service) I don’t believe that the smiles will remain in the memories for long after the atrocities to be visited on them by Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

The worst part is that they, AQ and Taliban are kin to Our Dear Leader, they are freedom fighters of the world, the oppressed, the poor, fighting against American imperialism and we should apologize more and eventually suffer and pay for our sins. To bad Barry doesn’t learn that these people never build anything, just destroy and kill. That is Islam today.

]]> By: Peggy http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-next-round-in-iraq/#comment-362584 Peggy Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:14:20 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=62763#comment-362584 Typo: It MAY take 20 years... Typo: It MAY take 20 years…

]]> By: Peter Montbriand http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-next-round-in-iraq/#comment-362082 Peter Montbriand Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:47:39 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=62763#comment-362082 I love the optimism that the previous commenters had/have. Alas, the fatalism is part of Middle East culture and is central to islam. I'm not as optimistic. I don't think there has been nearly enough reconciliation between the groups(Sunni, Shiite, Kurds, and the assorted others). I fear it will require significant numbers of American personel for a lonnnngggggg time to make sure our investment of billions and more importantly, the investment of american blood will pay off. Cultural changes require cataclysmic events and/or long time periods to happen. Has the liberation and presence of Americans for approximately 7 years been enough? I have strong doubts, I'm sorry to admit. BTW, I'm a radical free-willer, I have no time for fatalism. Free will is what makes us "made in the image of God". I love the optimism that the previous commenters had/have. Alas, the fatalism is part of Middle East culture and is central to islam. I’m not as optimistic. I don’t think there has been nearly enough reconciliation between the groups(Sunni, Shiite, Kurds, and the assorted others). I fear it will require significant numbers of American personel for a lonnnngggggg time to make sure our investment of billions and more importantly, the investment of american blood will pay off. Cultural changes require cataclysmic events and/or long time periods to happen. Has the liberation and presence of Americans for approximately 7 years been enough? I have strong doubts, I’m sorry to admit. BTW, I’m a radical free-willer, I have no time for fatalism. Free will is what makes us “made in the image of God”.

]]> By: Peggy http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-next-round-in-iraq/#comment-362007 Peggy Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:55:45 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=62763#comment-362007 I agree with the good Professor: the effect of this war and the soldiers that fought it on the children of Iraq is a force to be reckoned with. My husband was in Ramadi at the start of the "awakening" and most of the pictures he sent home had lots of children in them and the soldiers interacting with them in a positive way. My husband is 6'5" and most of his body was covered in digi and weapons--the only part of him that showed was his two adorable dimples and wide smile. That was enough to draw the kids to him. Never again will those children believe that American Soldiers are monsters. It make take 20 years, but change will come. I agree with the good Professor: the effect of this war and the soldiers that fought it on the children of Iraq is a force to be reckoned with. My husband was in Ramadi at the start of the “awakening” and most of the pictures he sent home had lots of children in them and the soldiers interacting with them in a positive way. My husband is 6’5″ and most of his body was covered in digi and weapons–the only part of him that showed was his two adorable dimples and wide smile. That was enough to draw the kids to him. Never again will those children believe that American Soldiers are monsters. It make take 20 years, but change will come.

]]> By: Professor Guvinoff http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-next-round-in-iraq/#comment-361191 Professor Guvinoff Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:31:57 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=62763#comment-361191 Nobody can predict how things will evolve in Iraq, but I think there is one dimension which has been overlooked: The american presence has left a strong mark on the children. 20 years from now, today's iraqi children will be the new wave of national energy. Their fears and aspirations will shape the outcome. If they can shed the fatalistic attitudes of their elders, there will be a durable transformation. In the meantime, the huge potential for unrest in Iran and China may well result in more "news-worthy" developments. GWB's initiative was a bold gamble whose ultimate outcome will be unknown for quite a while, which is why those who bet that is was a "total failure" and those who profess that it was the right thing to do are so ardent in their equally unprovable predictions. In any case, discrediting Al-Qaeda and its cohorts in the eyes of the muslim societies was, and still is, the urgent task, and so far it seems to me their stock has lost it former luster! Nobody can predict how things will evolve in Iraq, but I think there is one dimension which has been overlooked: The american presence has left a strong mark on the children. 20 years from now, today’s iraqi children will be the new wave of national energy. Their fears and aspirations will shape the outcome. If they can shed the fatalistic attitudes of their elders, there will be a durable transformation.

In the meantime, the huge potential for unrest in Iran and China may well result in more “news-worthy” developments. GWB’s initiative was a bold gamble whose ultimate outcome will be unknown for quite a while, which is why those who bet that is was a “total failure” and those who profess that it was the right thing to do are so ardent in their equally unprovable predictions.

In any case, discrediting Al-Qaeda and its cohorts in the eyes of the muslim societies was, and still is, the urgent task, and so far it seems to me their stock has lost it former luster!

]]>