Obviously I’m not advocating stopping anyone from getting out or signing on with Blackwater. Everyone should be able to work for whomever they please. But if State had to get it’s security in Iraq from DoD by budget transfer instead of hiring their own contractors then the market would dry up. That way we, the taxpayers wouldn’t be paying to encourage guys to get out.

Also it’s not just secial operations types who are getting hired by contractors these days. The market grew too quickly to keep it filled up with former SEALs and SF so there are a lot of Marine and Army infantry types out there too.

It seems like everyone involved agrees that there were excessive civilian casualties. Reports differ but none of the official findings show that they were under heavy attack. I’ve read Blackwaters report of the incident and it reads like a Medal of Honor citation, it’s amazing any of those guys got out alive if that story is true. To me it looks like some of these guys overreacted to a minor incident by treating it like it was Omaha beach. My feeling is that it’ll turn out to have been one or perhaps two guys who did most of the indiscriminate shooting.

Long term though I think we need to accept that guarding and escorting US personnel in war zones is a military function. The DOD should have that capability organically without having to let the other government agencies hire corporations that are basically just hiring good soldiers away from the military. Maybe adding a company of infantry or MPs to each brigade combat team and establishing a training program for training them in personal security would work. It would be more expensive in the beginning but these kind of wars aren’t going away any time soon and the State Dept. spent $1 billion on Blackwater last year, that kind of money buys you a lot of joes.

Paul…don’t you think these highly trained spec ops guys deserve the opportunity to market their skills in the “marketplace” after fullfilling their military obligation?? Or, maybe they should remain “slaved” to DOD until they reach age 65 or more?? Or maybe, even better, the “house of fools” otherwise known as the US Congress should enact legislation barring any spec ops guy leaving active military service from hiring on as a security contractor ANYWHERE??

11b1p I did ECP, patrols, IED clearing along with some other stuff which was classed as the most dangerous mission in iraq.

I have worked in Baghdad, mosul, kirkuk, irbil, as sulaymaniyah, dihok just to name a few of the major cities I’ve been in and worked in.

“Based on what I’ve seen it certainly looks like a crime was committed. ”

Based on what? A handful of statements from questionable sources. Once again their is no evidence other then “witness” statements which are a joke to prove anything. Once again their is as much proof that meteors fell from the sky and killed these ppl as their is blackwater did it. I would suggest you read up on the case.

Paul, thank you for your service…glad you came home safe.

Anon, I really don’t care if you believe me or not…I am proud of my family’s service.

You need to do more research before you defend BW. For instance, you said “Yes the DOD ppl who were part of the convoy all reported that they WERE ATTACKED.” This was not a DoD convoy, it was a DoS convoy. Different contracts, different personnel.

And finally, once again, you seem to think that employees of Blackwater are soldiers. They are civilian contractors who MAY be prior service…a number of BW personnel come from police and security backgrounds.

Bye now, I’m through with this.

As far as the video goes I’m not going to try and spot whatever you’re talking about. I’m watching it at work with the sound off but it looks like someone lit up that car at the 1:15 mark causing it to veer off into the orange and white taxi in the next lane. Given the speed that guy was approaching at I’d probably have done the same thing.

Cut the BS. Save your crap for someone that will really believe.

To 61. Paul in MI

If we go by your facts then they didn’t do anything wrong since were using official reports.

1. nice to see you get to pick and choose what facts you want.

2. The FBI didn’t file those charges and they were filed long before the FBI even started testing.

3. Yes the DOD ppl who were part of the convoy all reported that they WERE ATTACKED. So unless your saying the DOD is lying about the attacks as well.

4. BS they had to drop alot of the charges because they didn’t go anywhere.

5. Umm they did follow the ROE. Being the fact you probably don’t even know what ROE is you probably shouldn’t even talk about it.

6. Once again you have zero understanding of ROE or EoF.

7. Lol see 5 and 6.

8. I really suggest you learn something about how blackwater works…

9. once again you know nothing about iraq.

Since you noobs think you know something about anything lets see if you can even get this right. Below is a convoy video from blackwater. Point out every major crimes(simply state the time stamp). I’m only looking for major crimes but if you find a minor crime(such as 2 iraqi’s double parking) I’ll count that as a major crime. If you can even get it 50% right I’ll at least consider you not complete trolls who’s only goal is to throw US soldiers in jail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZHqugy_QBw

2)”the FBI came out and said “we got nothing””
The FBI said ballistics were inconclusive. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-04-01-blackwater-report_N.htm?csp=15
That’s not the same thing. They have enough for a 35 count indictment that a federal judge has allowed to go forward.

3)”the statements of both blackwater AND a 3rd party who have no reason to lie”
If they did it (and it is an “if”, I reserve no judgement until after the trial) then they have nothing but reasons to lie. The only way you could conclude this is if you thought it was a foregone conclusion that they didn’t do it.

4)”The AG filed charges against everyone in blackwater even the drives ”
I’m assuming that that’s supposed to be drivers and if so then it’s false. There are 5 people named in the indictment, plus one more who already pleaded guilty. 6 men doesn’t make a convoy.

5)”their rules are in fact STRICTER in almost every respect then the US military rules”
Since you didn’t give any details I can’t find anything to support or contradict this idea. The facts contradict it though. It doesn’t really matter how strict their ROE is if they don’t follow it.

6)”US soldiers and blackwater have stricter rules on who they’re allowed to shoot at then police in the US do”
Incorrect. Soldiers in combat are allowed to defend themselves without trying to arrest anyone first. They can also use suppressive fire, explosives, and shoot first under certain conditions. This is as it should be.

7)”A police officer could shoot to kill many many more ppl then the US army or blackwater ever could”
Incorrect. Show me a police officer who’s been indicted on 35 counts of manslaughter and still has a job.

8)”You understand blackwater falls under the UCMJ as well”
Only employees of the DOD fall under the UCMJ. Blackwater contracts primarily with the State Dept.

9) “Shooting iraq guards/police/military/anything iraqi if you knew anything about iraq is 1. not uncommon. 2. Not illegal”
You’re insane. It is illegal, it should be more uncommon. You can tell it’s illegal because there are a bunch of Blackwater guys on trial for doing it right now. Accidents happen but the whole country isn’t a free-fire zone.

Literally every “fact” you’ve claimed over the last 4 days is actually false. Are you trolling or just incredibly ignorant?

So it’s perfectly OK for a drunk to shoot the Iraqi VP’s guard? But wait, by contract BW personnel aren’t supposed to drink…and the drunk wasn’t supposed to be carrying…and he tried to make everyone think he had been defending himself, even though no other weapons were fired.

Blackwater personnel ARE NOT SOLDIERS. They are hired civilian guards. Granted, many are FORMER soldiers, but when they go to work for BW, they are civilians. I do not believe US soldiers are guilty.

I have never, and will never say ANYTHING negative about US soldiers. I was a soldier. Both my brothers are combat veterans. My son is a combat veteran. My daughter is in the process of joining.

Have you ever done anything besides sit in your mother’s basement and dream of having a life?

Questionable and illegal are 2 very different things. Shooting iraq guards/police/military/anything iraqi if you knew anything about iraq is 1. not uncommon. 2. Not illegal

Your argument is very clear you hate blackwater because they are US soldiers and you believe that US soldiers are all guilty of “they kill just for the sake of killing, it makes them, and by association, us no better than Muslim extremests.”

Stop trying to go after blackwater for crimes that you think every US soldier commits everyday in iraqi man up and at least admit you just hate US soldiers.