The LAPD Box Score Reads: Two Runs, Two Hits, One Error
Giovanni Ramirez was not some naïf snatched from his home or his job and hurled into the machinery of the criminal justice system based on trumped-up evidence. He was a gang member and convicted felon on active parole for a weapons charge. According to the L.A. Times, he has at least two other previous felony convictions, one for robbery and the other for attempted robbery. The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported the victim of the latter crime was an elderly woman. To Sandy Banks, none of this is anything to be ashamed of.
Furthermore, we have yet to hear an explanation from his defenders as to why Ramirez was staying at the apartment in East Hollywood, far away from his home and gang territory in East Los Angeles. This, too, is a violation of his parole conditions, albeit a technical one. And now we learn that Ramirez’s girlfriend, Denise Piccione, 26, has been arrested in Las Vegas for methamphetamine trafficking and possession of a dangerous weapon. Associating with drug dealers is also a violation of his parole conditions.
It was Ramirez’s own prior conduct, it was the decisions that he alone made as to how he would live his life, that led to his being a suspect in the Bryan Stow beating. And isn’t it ironic that Ramirez chooses to shave his head in the manner typical of Latino gang members. One advantage this offers is to make it difficult for crime victims and witnesses to identify them from one another, but in Ramirez’s case it was turned against him. In choosing to look like so many other thugs in Los Angeles, he was mistaken for one of the most wanted men in town.
So Sandy Banks can shed all the tears she likes for Giovanni Ramirez, but neither she nor he should be waiting by the phone for that apology.
Elsewhere in the LAPD, the department brass has been tripping over their own feet as they try to turn a minor incident into a scandal. On July 7, officers from the LAPD’s 77th Street Division held an off-duty party at a bar in Gardena. Billed, perhaps a bit imprudently, as a “hood day” party, mimicking those held by gang members, the party was attended by officers and supervisors alike. I’m told it was quite a bash.
A sign was posted at the bar’s entrance — again, perhaps a bit imprudently — advising that any cop who had agreed to comply with new financial disclosure rules for gang and narcotics officers would be unwelcome at the party. When those rules went into effect in March, only the lieutenant in the 77th Street gang unit agreed to comply with them and remain in his position. All of the sergeants and officers exercised the option to be assigned to other duties rather than complete the disclosure, a decision they were advised — at every level of the chain of command, right up to Chief Beck himself — would be accepted without consequences.
But there are still hard feelings among the brass that so many cops refused to roll over, so the investigation into the party is seen by many cops at 77th Street as a chance for the department to get even. In a move sadly typical of LAPD management, they overreacted to a minuscule incident in a way that will only make matters worse. The investigation had barely begun when four police officers and a lieutenant, all experienced veterans at 77th Street, were unceremoniously transferred to other stations. Before it’s all over, internal affairs investigators will likely claim a few more scalps for some perceived indiscretions, but none of it will make working the 77th Street gang unit any more attractive than it was before. A police station’s morale can be shot to hell overnight, but it takes a long time to bring it back.
Illustrating the stubborn endurance of bad ideas, the financial disclosure rules at the root of the fuss described above are among the last vestiges of the federal consent decree imposed on the LAPD in the wake of the so-called Rampart scandal of the late 1990s. The consent decree was a colossal waste, enriching those who made a career out of enforcing it and only diverting vast quantities of money and other resources away from the fight against crime in Los Angeles. We now learn that one of the consent decree’s chief architects, Donna Murphy, has been nominated by President Obama for a judgeship for the Superior Court of Washington, D.C.
Murphy currently serves in the Justice Department, where she worked under Janet Reno and Bill Lann Lee in the Civil Rights Division at the time the consent decree was crafted. Back in March, Hans von Spakovsky made the case here on PJ Media as to why Murphy’s nomination should not go through, to which I would only add that I would hate to be a police officer called to testify in her court. Crime in D.C. is bad enough without another liberal activist on the bench looking for ways to excuse criminal behavior.
I gotta tell you Jack, I’m not sure I agree with you 100% about Ramirez. Yeah, the guy’s an ex-con, and maybe he’s still a bad guy. But as far as I’m aware, no one presented any evidence that he’s a bad guy currently. As far as I know, there’s no evidence he even knew the gun in question was there. Yes, that’s still a violation, but it’s a bit of a stretch, in any case. And of course there’s the issue that you bring up, at least in part: if he hadn’t resembled one of the perpetrators, he wouldn’t have been investigated in the first place, or had his parole violated. It looked to me (at the time) as if they violated his parole because they thought he did it, but didn’t have any actual evidence to support that, and wanted to hang onto the guy. And frankly, when a tough guy gives as his alibi that he was playing with his young daughter at the time, I get a bit confused…that doesn’t sound like the stereotypical gangbanger to me. Most of them have babymamas for that sort of thing.
Frankly I thought Beck looked like an idiot, saying that Ramirez was the perpetrator before they had sufficient evidence to even indict, let alone convict, the guy of anything. I gather his family’s thinking of suing. I hope they don’t (it’s not like we have the money to pay damages) but frankly I think they have a pretty decent case. Hopefully Beck will have learned his lesson, and in the future keep his mouth shut until there’s at least some evidence to back up his statements.
Sorry Dave, but the dirtbag demonstrated he needs to be put back in jail.
When parole is given your sentence is not over; it’s been determined that you can serve it outside of prison instead of in it. There are very onerous restrictions and conditions when a person is put on parole, and before they let you out they go over the terms. If a convict doesn’t like them, he refuse parole and stay in prison but if he agrees to the terms he’s expected to follow them.
Ramirez decided to ignore no less than two of those terms (Access to a gun and not living where he was told to). He has demonstrated that he cannot abide by the terms of parole and should no longer have it. Parole is not a right; it’s a privilege and you can’t live by the terms you agreed to when put on parole you do belong back in prison.
Dirtbag or not, they were wrong.
Need to own up to it.
As my dad used to say:
“treat eveyone like a gentleman…
not because THEY are, but because YOU are”
I expect professionalism from the people I employ
Spoken like a real LAPD copper. My hats off to you, sir. Strength & Honour.
Jack, Jack, Jack. As usual, people off good sense talking to or about those on the left end up bewildered and confused. They make the same sounds we do, so you think they are speaking english, but in fact they are not. Their basic premises and concepts are quite different. This story is a case in point.
Sandy ‘Nit Wit’ Banks and Donna ‘Dumbass’ Murphy assume that we are all just people and deserve the benefit of doubt, forgiveness, blah blah. Everything that looks like a person is not a person. Some are monsters. Monsters may have two arms and legs, a face and hands that make us think they are people, but they are not. Ramirez is a monster (evidenced by his victimizing an elderly person, commiting two felonies….etc.). He is owed no apology by the LAPD or society as a whole. Just the other way about, and his apology should be ongoing until the people he victimized are not longer troubled by what he did to them.
That some are monsters and not people is a concept the left does not have. Their notions about people spring from the tenets of multiculturism.
Another interesting case in point would be with regards the so called ‘Slut walk’. Women who dress provocatively and parade with signs ‘protesting’ rape. It boggles the mind to figure why rape would need protesting against as if there is some segment of society that endorses it. Apparently this march originated when a Canadian policeman, giving a class on rape prevention, said to his class of women ” And dont dress like a slut.” . What he meant was not that rape victims are sometimes to blame for what happened to them but that “there are wolves in the world, do not feed yourself to them.”. Again, these leftists do not have the concept that there are wolves in the world who look like people, so to them the officer must have meant they are to blame for their own rape. If he had said ” And dont go in that neighborhood at night wearing a Rolex.” or ” And dont park your Lexus on such and such a street at night.” I doubt anyone would have assumed he meant robbery victims are to blame for their victimization except the serious leftist.
Leftists make the same sounds, but they speak a different language.
“They make the same sounds we do, so you think they are speaking english, but in fact they are not”
ain’t this the truth!
not much has changed from the days of ole’ nimrod
Great column.
It should be pounded into the head of every wannabe thug (and newspaper columnist) that parolees do not have the same set of rights as citizens.
A parolee can be returned to prison without a trial, for instance.
It should be made clear that parole is the generous benefit of being able to chose what to have for lunch and what time to get up in the morning and being able to shower by yourself that is given to those who have yet to complete their sentence. It should be made especially clear that it can be (or should be able to be) taken away with no reason whatsoever.
Mr. Dunphy, you couldn’t be more correct in your assessment. Kudos!
Ramirez shouldn’t go back to prison because the gun charge was manufactured for the purpose of taking him in while the murder investigation proceeded. Now that he is exonerated, he should remain in parole, but not have to go back in. It’s only fair. Catch him for something else.
Also, since the state parole service (ie Parole officers) will be dismantled within a year, it looks like Sheriffs and LAPD will have the opportunity to become very close with the parolees living in their jurisdictions, so I’m sure Mr. Ramirez and the LAPD will have a long history together.
That said, having read the comment section of Sandy’s LA Times article, I’m concerned about this comment:
…
“LOOK GUYS (AND DOLLS), We as citizens have to place our police and politicians on a higher standard. They not only represent the public, but we also ask them to work closely with that which makes men corrupt–sex, money, power, deceit and violence.
I could care less if Ramirez or Hill were criminals, I know they are (or were). But the issue is NOT them, it is the people we’ve placed in power. And when they screw up, no matter how little, THERE should be, as a necessity and part of the democratic process, there should be a RECKONING. They have to explain why they screwed up.
IN the case of the samurai sword suspect who fell to his death as he was TASERed, then the public’s question is tactical. WHY was a person TASERed while sitting down next to a cliff? In this Stowe case, WHY did the Chief and the Mayor feel it necessary to make a big hoopla on this otherwise very weak case?
In the case of the LAPD Union asking for a raise and bonus. Again WHY? With local gov’ts hurting for revenue and other local police laying off their officers, WHY do they think a raise and a bonus is appropriate now. The issue here is simple, and it is TRANSPARENCY. Have them explain themselves always, this is the job of journalists, as well as we the public.”
…
Jack, are LAPD officers really asking for a raise and bonus? Regarding the TASER incident of the Samurai sword suspect was he really seated when the TASER was deployed? Because, in Patrol, I can assure you that’s no bueno, amigo. In Patrol, if an officer deployed the TASER on a seated subject by the edge of a cliff, it’s La Bamba time, meaning “hung out to dry” by the brass, as in “hasta, la bamba. get a rep”. You don’t deploy the TASER to kill.
Beck might have HOT daughters,
but he’s not so HOT himself.
He’s not the sharpest tool in the shed.
jack i would like to get a hold of you so that i can send you a article for you to comment on based on what the department is doing to patrol officers. what is the best way?
Email me at: dunphy.nro@gmail.com
were u able to find the article and have a chance to read it? what did u think about it?
jack i would like to get a hold of you so that i can send you a article for you to comment on based on what the department is doing to patrol officers. what is the best way?
Wow — I got this article as part of my official LAPD e-mail daily notification of what’s going on. I knew LA cops had to be reading it, but for it to be scooped up and reprinted in its entirety has got to be some kind of official salute for its accuracy.
Beck looked like an idiot. I anticipate his tenure won’t be very long since you can’t get in front of TV cameras with our beloved La Razan mayor and assure citizens of something that is overtly falling apart all around you even as you speak. Just look at Obama and his current budget troubles and how much respect *he* has these days.
One of the reasons I’m hoping for the bankruptcy and demise of LA Times is that it will make vacuum-brained left-leaning progressive writers like Banks and Steve Lopez unemployed. Lopez at least can go on to a career as a screen-writer, but then we’ll all know that the stuff he’s churning out is fiction. Banks can collect unemployment and mutter lots and lots of words like “racism” under her breath as she putters through the rest of her unimportant life.
And the Dodgers are filing for bankruptcy, too, I think as a direct result of this incident. That’s what happens when you give your heart and soul and business over to latino’s, aiming for their business and input over any one else’s — normal Americans decline to both come to your stadium and sure as hell aren’t going to pay for the privilege of being crammed cheek by jowl in with a bunch of illegals and gangbangers who don’t know how to behave any more than they know how to speak or write English. Shunning can be a harsh punishment as OJ Simpson discovered, and the Dodgers are finding out just how harsh themselves with their rows and rows and tiers and banks of empty seats.
Isn’t socialism awesome? Isn’t taxpayer-paid law enforcement the best deal we have, where the LAPD MUST answer to the people and not to a CEO or shareholder, and that every step of the way, through stringent socialist regulations are put into protect the public from criminals as well as a dictator? Well yes, But I hope Jack would keep this in mind that P.J. Media does not share this view, even though COO Sandra Graves Rozanski http://pajamasmedia.com/about-us/ is the wife of Robert Rozanski ttp://www.latimes.com/business/la-oew-rozanski6nov06,0,3503403.story and a recipient of taxpayer-paid: pension and health benefit.
Still jack, will you speak up against Bernie Park? You know, the City Council member and former chief of the LAPD who cracked down on the corrupt LAPD officer at the Rampart scandal? While Bernie, whose mantra was “Should Know or should have known” was asst. Chief of Central Bureau, who should know or should have known, caused the city of Los Angeles to face more than 140 civil suits resulting from the Rampart scandal, with total estimated settlement costs around $125 million. And the $125 million was from LAPD officers who were illegally fired or suspended or
How former chief William Bratton who now heads Altegrity, was responsible for in helping craft Kroll and Associates to monitor the LAPD under the federal consent decree, in which Kroll was owned by AIG and now, Bratton bought out BRoll and Assoicates: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/06/07/altegrity-to-buy-kroll-for-1-13-billion/? The conflict of interest is sickening, and the LAPD officer will always be victim.
So before you say anything good or bad of the LAPD, watch who you keep company with. That is unless you’re not an LAPD officer.
Where to begin…. ah yes with the first exagerated, overzealous comments. “A child, evidently the next generation of hoodlum, was also in the car,” It’s quite obvious you work comfortably behind a desk, tucked away in your home, or some well air-condtioned office. Unlike, the children and youth of Los Angeles. The children who are beaten, molested, verbally threatened. It’s low, and unclassy to comment on the childs lack of forth-comming with information. When I can assure you the child was threatened if he said anything…
Secondly, Cheif apologizing in the LA Times. Ahh yes, completely agree with you 100%. But for me, what bothers me as an officer, is the fact that the chief would apologize to a thug, an active gang-member, an active criminal with a gun due to “the mistake.” Yet, how many officers on the department get apologies from the Chief. He’s simple a political figure, trying to keep the city happy. All his “unbias policing” crap, is disheartning towards officers. He wants his officers to be productive in writting tickets, however the second someone complains about “you only stopped me because, Im…” Now were under investigation, and some IA DESK cop is asking us for “a little more,” then just stopping a car for it’s expired registration.
Thirdly…
The 77th incident, how about some of these “old school gang cops,” grow out of their high school mentaility. Creating a safety issue for the new gang officers, should not be tolerated. I know many “new” gang cops, who have put out back-ups, and the only back-up they get is their co-gang officers. That’s a tactical and safety error, that regular patrol officers need to fix.
Ramses violated his parole ..yeah he ain’t the one that turned a man into a veggie …but he still failed to follow the contract he agreed to when he was placed on parole…so …as a consequence he’s going back to la carcel ..end of story…dumb%&$%&##idiots!
1. Was the gun planted? What’s the serial and owner info?
2. Did Ramirez know of the gun? Where was it found?
3. Where is the gun now?
Let me see. Parole agent thinks it’s his guy. Contacts Central Detectives. He’s bald, he’s got neck tattoos, must be him.
They figure, since he’s already on parole, why don’t we violate his ass. To make sure he violates parole, they place a gun nearby.
Viola! Parole violation. Beck wants to be on TV-again! “WE got the murderer!”. Only poor dumb Beck was wrong.
But where’s the gun and all its info? Show the gun and who it belongs to. Because if that gun was owned by the City or the state, then I’m gonna laugh my ass off!!!
Hot daughters or not, this Chief is a clown.
Where to start… I guess the beginning. To everyone who says parole is a gift that’s not to be taken advantage of, well I agree 110%. I don’t know to the status of Ramirez’es search conditions, but the truth remains that there was enough PROBABLE CAUSE for a court appointed JUDGE (hello legal system, not LAPD) to sign off on a search warrant for the location where Ramirez was lying his head at night. Now as any copper knows, whether veteran or rookie the findings of illegal circumstances while carrying out a search warrant is “good to go” as long as we stay within the guidelines and perameters of the 4th ammendment, California law and department policy. Nothing anywhere says that any of these were violated during the course of the active investigation and therefore any open charges or parole violations pending from that investigation stick. I.E. the gun that was found in addition to Ramirez not residing at his parole listed residence.
As far as the apology, ok, I can see this from both sides of the road. If Ramirez had been found to be completely innocent, which means, no gun found and he was actually residing where he was supposed to be, when this happened…(long pause for effect)…well I could see the chief dusting him off and giving him an honest apology. Chief Beck is not an unreasonable Chief and he appears to genuinely care about the people of Los Angeles. However, we all know the real turn out and therefore I am completely at ease with the decisions and actions that were made. Its not personal, its business.
As to his actions on speaking of the arrest of Ramirez in relation to the senseless beating of a man who roots for a team other then the Dodgers. Well, I say sometimes people do what they have to do to calm a restless city. A lot of actions were taken in regards to this case because of the uprising that ensued thanks to the media and also our beloved concerned citizens. The Chief appeared to be,(for a lack of a better term) “soothing the ever angering beast”. If there is any apology to be made I could see the Chief apologizing to the city of LA for his assistance in putting down the guard of the city and giving them the impression that half of the tandum team was behind bars. Other then that, I don’t know what to tell you.
Now we come to the infamous 77th fiasco of July 7th. I wasn’t there so I don’t know specifics, but let’s refrain from anything that resembles a “hood day” party. Let’s also not glorify something that criminals do by mimicking their actions. As far as that signage that was posted at the off duty party I reply with a big fat, “GROW UP!” As if it is not already hard enough being a cop, its even harder being a cop in one of the most violent and crime infested cities in America. Coupled by being in the Southend where the worst of the worst reside, now you want to go and make it a hostile work environment for a copper who isn’t just answering “see the man, see the woman” calls. He/She is now actively seeking out violent gang members who often carry guns and other weapons. A “Back up is a Back up” and if you’re not responding Code-3 to one because of some piece of paper that has less information on it then a Google Search by name, then perhaps its time you retire or resign and take up employment elsewhere. Because you sure as hell aren’t doing your FELLOW coppers any good by outcasting them due to their personal choice to pick up the slack and do the hard work that many cops will never do (even without the disclosure in effect).
I don’t want to go off topic, so I am going to stay away from making any remarks about the other columnist who complains about a raise for LAPD coppers. just know that I have a few choice words in regards to that as well.
In closing:
Do cops make mistakes? The answer is yes, everyday. But we are just people too and therefore are subject to the same mistakes and scrutiny as anyone else. Are we held to a higher standard because of our profession? Of course we are and for the most part we are ok, accepting, and understanding of that. But, are we lambs for the lions? Of course not and when liberal, left minded people stop thinking of us as sacraficial lambs and more like people I am sure that the “HATE” and “DISTAIN” that stings society with our profession can begin to finally lift.
Always remember:
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -George Orwell
For those who fought for it, FREEDOM has a flavor the protected will never know. -Anonymous
and like clockwork, that old “Sheepdog vs. Lambs” analogy once more.
I’m so sick and tired of that mindless saying. Remember, during the riots, citizens of LA, armed themselves because LAPD was holed up in their stations too scared to come out. I don’t think you guys are as important as you think you are–certainly not deserving of more raise or bonus now. Who’s cleaning up London now? the public.
Before there were cops, people took care of things on their own. We don’t need to pay high school grads $80,000 to 90,000/year. 70% of firefighters in this country are volunteer/neighborhood firefighters, maybe we can expand LAPD’s volunteer force and lay off some expensively salaried “Sheepdogs” with only high school education.
I hope with all my heart and soul, along with my G.E.D., that a civil servant doesn’t save your sorry butt from an armed robber, a burglar, or a fire!
Geez, then you would have to write about something other than what small town USA settles for in fire and police protection.
You get what you pay for, even if YOU don’t deserve it! Sorry, your social programs were abolished or hacked in order to pay for essential services. More hacking is coming!
Who’s gun was it that they found, and who was it registered to? Where was it found? Did Ramirez know of the gun?
As for his domicile, was he actually living there or just visiting? Because usually when a parolee visits somewhere, Parole agents are pretty lenient and just give them a warning, not really grounds to send them back in prison.
“I’m a sheepdog and all you losers are sheep. You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall, to protect you because you sheep are so weak. Because you are so weak, I’m going to bamboozle you sheeps to paying me more than I am actually worth. So, if you pay teachers, who do more work than me, 40,000 dollars, I will ask for $90,000, because you’re scared of Lil’ Payaso down the street and that black guy on the street corner.” ~Ofcr Sheepdog (aka Rough Man)
The sheep pay the sheepdogs lots of money, and the sheepdogs bark at the sheep all day long to remind them that they should be scared–of who, I’m not sure anymore.
Californians are now waking up from this racket. Parole agents will be phased out. Corrections will be downsized. And the rest of the Law Enforcement/Corrections racket will slowly wind down. And LAPD is still asking for a raise and bonus? Hell to the NO!!!
yeah, that’s called extortion.
Really? I’m not sure where you got your figures, but they’re a little off. The base salary for an LAPD officer WITH 4 years of college is only around $60,000… and lets not forget that they are also NOT paid for overtime. That’s right. The new contract stipulates that they will not get cash compensation for overtime hours worked for the next 3 years. I bet you get payed for your overtime right? Everyone else does, but LAPD officers have sacrificed that to help augment the city’s budget crisis.
As far as your absurd comments alluding to this city not needing these officers to protect them… please. Do you live in the same city the rest of us do? This place is a sh**hole. Do you really expect single mothers and the elderly to ‘handle their own problems’ when some thug puts a gun in their face and demands their hard earned money? Please! My family and I sleep soundly every night because we know that the police are out there standing between us and the people that wish us harm. If you actually did your research instead of just shooting off at the mouth, you would also find that the LAPD is one of the most UNDERpaid departments in the state.
And stop with your nonsense about the sheepdogs barking for you to be afraid. If you are an upstanding member of the community with nothing to hide, why would you be afraid of the police? The only people that fear the police are the guilty. How about you grow up and show a little respect to the men and women that put their LIFE on the line every day to protect your freedom to be an ignorant loudmouth.
“The only people that fear the police are the guilty.”
The guilty and the people they frame all the time like Mr. Ramirez and countless other victims (remember Rampart, the homeless in Skid Row, all those mentally ill killed for no reason, etc. etc.)
Don’t forget all the regular residents who were ticketed for manufactured infractions because of your LAPD quota, didn’t some of your officers sue the department for this quota system and actually won. So don’t lie to me and tell me LAPD officers are honest. They lie for a living because of your quota to fill, infractions, misd. and felonies.
How often does LAPD actually “save” people during an act of violence? Most of the time, if in fact they get there, LAPD gets there after the fact and all they do is write reports. Useful? More like useless to me, unless you think paper work is police work.
Please.
A teacher in surrounding LA school districts with a Master’s degree, with 10 yrs experience, averages 50K per annum. No they don’t get overtime and they end up paying for their own school supplies to their students.
A police officer with 2 yrs on, earning 60K to 70K a year is a bit of a stretch, considering what they actually do, which is drive around and respond to crimes after the fact.
Why not expand the LAPD volunteer force? Force retire all the desk jockeys with 30 yrs on, just milking the system. Resign all the newbies earning 60K to 70K. Cut the force in half, increase the volunteers (I’m sure there will be a line out the door, people who just want to volunteer protect their city). And I’m sure the city will get by.
the Sheriffs have volunteer deputies doing the menial tasks like report writing, frond desk, phones, etc. etc. You could also employ less paid interns from college or high school explorers to do the desk jobs in the stations or at headquarters. We’re spending way too much on these high school graduate “Sheepdogs”.
The people they frame? This argument is ludicrous at best. It should be noted that you’re citing incidents that are not the norm. Keeping in mind that the individuals working for the LAPD are human beings that are fallible. When you have a group of 10,000 people, it should go without saying that in that group there will be some horrible people. The ignorance comes into play when you lump all of the officers out there breaking their backs for the ungrateful people of this city in with the few bad apples that are out for themselves.
And manufactured traffic tickets? Really? Are you telling me your plates weren’t ecpired? You’re tail light wasn’t out? Your winshield wasn’t cracked? That’s not manufactured, it’s the California Vehicle Code. And if you still believe that quotas exist, you’re very naive. With all the scrutiny in place because of the consent decree and a public that would rather complain and blame someone than take responsibility for their own actions, quotas are very much a thing of the past. That argument might have carried weight in the 60′s, but it’s a little haggard at this point.
And on to salary… let’s talk about what officers actually do. Paperwork and reports are indeed a tedious part of the job. No one like doing paperwork. The LAPD has been forced into creating absurdly detailed reports and filling out a mass of extra paperwork because of nonsense like the consent decree and too many idiots that think bringing a lawsuit against the LAPD is a great way to make some cash. Have an LAPD officer explain all the paperwork he’s required to do for a simple misdemeanor arrest to an officer from another department and watch that officer’s jaw hit the floor. And that my friend, is the city’s fault for allowing such nonsense to take place. So yes, there is a lot of paperwork for patrol cops on the street. But think of what else they do: who’s there to find your child when they are missing? Who goes and knocks down the door of the pervert that just violently raped your sister and takes him in to custody? Who gets attacked and ambushed by gang members? Who gets into a brawl with a 6’5″ 250lb parolee that just stole a car and is looking at his third strike? Not teachers. And I’m not saying that as knock on teachers. I think they’re overworked and underpaid as well.
Don’t knock police officers because you had a bad experience and got caught rolling through a stop sign. That’s just ignorant. Tell me, you ever get shot at while doing your job? Ever feel like your life is in danger every time you go to work? You have to strap on kevlar in your office? It’s real simple man. Some jobs deserve a lot of respect and should be compensated accordingly. I know I wouldn’t risk my life for $70,000 a year. I’m glad there are people out there that will, even when the very city the put their life on the line for has nothing better to do with their time than berate them.
Oh, and you really can’t say Ramirez was framed since he was VIOLATING HIS PAROLE! Why is that such a hard concept to understand? Just becasue he wasn’t guilty of one crime, doesn’t mean he’s not guilty of something else. He was not staying where he was supposed to be, he had access to a weapon, and he was consorting with a drug dealer… all violations of his parole. Parole isn’t normal life, and you don’t have the same rights as everyone else while you’re on Parole. If you can’t have it or do it in a jail cell, you can’t have it or do it on Parole. You’re still serving your time. Ramirez was not framed. He was simply another idiot that couldn’t abide by the conditions of his Parole. He needed to be violated. Simple as that.
You say a few bad apples, I say it’s the whole barrel–it’s the system. How often does a Narcotics officer say he saw a perp throwing drugs, when he actually didn’t and evidence in court showed the perp didn’t–Hence the word “framed”, this happens more than you think. Ask how many officers in the LAPD have had a motion to have every word they utter in court as suspect, because of a pattern of lies, again more than you think.
As for traffic tickets, how many officers, relatives of officers, friends of officers, get away with a warning because of their connections–it’s called “professional courtesy”. Why can’t they extend this same “courtesy” to us regular citizens? Riddle me that, Robin. They’ve let go DUI drivers since they are relatives of LAPD officers.
Ask how often officers actually get to tango with big black guys off parole, ambushed, beat up, in a shoot out, yadda yadda yadda. It’s not as often than you think. And statistics say certain officers tend to get into these altercations more than others. Hot heads vs. cool heads, the hot heads will get into fights more. But that’s no reason to pay them more–how much do we pay our soldiers who are risking more? See the difference?
If you look up which jobs are the most dangerous, police work is probably a lot safer in comparison. But because they are civil service status, plus unionized, they’ve fleeced the American public, and we’re saying, Thank you, may I have some more? Because we believe their BS about sheep and sheepdogs? That’s BS.
As for Ramirez, he was violating his parole only because he was the suspect of the Stow beating. Ask any parole agent, no one’s going to violate for sleeping in another house or staying with no knowledge of a gun in the premise (there’s a good possibility, the gun was planted, who’s was it?). Most parole agents only violate when there’s a felony involved, even misdemeanor arrests they’ll let go, because the prisons are filled to capacity. Ask any copper who have tried to violate a parolee for a crack pipe, no go. Ramirez’s violation in essence was manufactured because he was the Stow suspect, now that he’s not, it’s only fair to do the right thing.
But the right thing in the LAPD is usually the opposite of what most good God fearing folks think. They’ve been so corrupt for so long, it’s hard for them to do the right thing.
I think you’ve been watching too many movies. Since I have quite a few close relatives on the job, I have a little more insight than most. But you know what, if it makes you feel better about yourself to demonize the LAPD and call everyone corrupt, then go for it. Nothing I can say will change your mind. You’re just another one of the cop hating masses that make these civil servant’s jobs harder than they should be. I’d hate to live in your world where everyone is out to get you and trying to scare you into paying them more money. And back to the parole thing, you’re just plain wrong. Officers can get a violation of parole for something as simple as a parolee not complying with commands. Parole is just like prison without the cell. Ramirez is just as guilty no matter what other case he happened to be a suspect in. I don’t know what kind of bad experience you had, or what disgruntled ex-con you talked to that filled your head with these hollywood fantasies of corrupt and scheming LAPD, but it’s just not the case.
Tell you what, go talk to a parole agent and ask him or her. Furthermore, go talk to cops who have tried to request parole violations (holds) for misdemeanors, like crack pipe or other smaller offense, and not get it. Granted there may be some new parole agent who wants to make a name for himself by bending over backwards for local police or sheriffs, but most 1) don’t like the extra paperwork, plus driving down to parole hearings, and 2) they actually have an unwritten rule to keep parolees out because the prisons are packed. Measly violations, ie living in another address, but same town, does not warrant a violation–if it did don’t you think that parole agent would’ve violated Ramirez already? Also, I know they found a gun, with a search warrant, but it’s really seldom for parole agents to do surprise (real surprise) inspection. Like I said, most parole agents enjoy their overtime, free ride, but they don’t like having to drive to county for parole hearings–why make your job any harder? Parole agents, most of whom are corrections officers, are just like cops, they are just doing time to get the sweet pension. Do the time, don’t let the time do you, is the underlying philosophy.
Inflation is the reason why persons in all sorts of jobs, cops included, need raises.We live in Laredo, TX and now spend about 40% more on groceries than we did i1/2 years ago. We are blessed with some discretionary income, or would be in financial trouble. LA is an expensive city in which to live. Lets look at the facts before we criticize others. Does LAPD pay at least a median family income to officers?
Don’t forget Bill Lann Lee is a plaintiff’s lawyer who made good money suing LAPD (change in K9 pilicy, for example) before he went to the civil rights division. The Senate refused to confirm him as director of that division so he served as the “Acting” director. He wanted to guarantee the plantiff’s bar lawyers had everything they needed t omake their jobs easier.
“It takes an even greater to man apologize for his mistakes–no matter how small” ~ Confucius
Chief Beck doesn’t have to apologize to Mr. Ramirez personally, but he does have to apologize for his decisions and actions which resulted in parading an innocent (for the beating of Stowe) man around the media circus and causing additional distress to Mr. Ramirez’s family. He also needs to apologize to the entire City of L.A. and the Stowe family for his department’s shoddy investigation (ie, Robber-Homicide should have handled this high profile case from the git-go) which unnecessarily prolonged the investigation (all they really had to do was listen to witness tips, instead they went with some parole agent’s hunch.)
Chief Beck needs to apologize to the initial victim’s family, the secondary victim’s family (Ramirez), the City, and to his own department for looking like a bunch of amateurs. Also remember, the night of the Stowe beatings there were plenty of LAPD officers present (look it up, this is public record, also ask where they were), but since they were just there for the overtime, they were on their smart phones in the background, low vigilance.
How do we verify the number of LAPD officers present at Dodger Stadium that day and where their posts were, and why certain parts like the parking lot and exits were un-manned by LAPD officers?
How about Chief Beck apologize personally to Ramirez’s 9 yr old daughter? Is that not decent enough?
When you think you’re above the law, you think you can just trample on other people’s lives.
Maybe this has become the norm in L.A., but for me righteous people still say sorry when they do wrong.
I have apologize so many times in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I have seen my buddies and little children dead or dying.
But you say you’re sorry because that’s what your parents taught you when you were a kid.
Police work is really simple: before, during, after–prevention/interdiction/investigation.
Prevention–Police can’t really take full responsibility of this, since there are quite a lot of facets to explain why crimes happen and why they don’t, ie there’s gentrification, migration, the economy, and other explanations.
Interdiction–This is probably where the police can shine, but most of the time they end up shooting an autistic man, or screwing up a call because they used lethal force, when they could’ve used less force.
Investigation–Most of the time, this is what our police do, they write reports and investigate. In the Ramirez screw up, they ruled out other possibilities quickly and focused on one less likely suspect. Bad investigation is the worst, because it makes the public doubt.
Really simple? Well, what a relief that we have you to advise us! Thank you for your hard earned and respected insight. You better start sending this all over the nation and you alone may solve this very simple problem.
The LAPD does have an all volunteer force – it’s called a Reserve Police Officer.
If you think you have what it takes to donate your time and effort, sign up! Oh, you have to pass the Police Academy. Shouldn’t be a problem for all the smart people on this blog.
Oh, and just remember there are standards and they likely won’t just give anyone a gun to anyone and tell them, “GO GET ‘EM! Make sure you help people!”
Then I say expand the Reserve Police officer corps and start firing the desk jockeys and the ones just driving around on the City’s dime. Do away with civil service protection, defunct their police union, save lots of money. The City’s going toward bankruptcy, why are we still viewing the LAPD as some sort of sacred cow. Cut, cut, cut!!!
With what happened in the Norway shooting, London riots and Glen Beck’s reportage, we can assume that conservative, white, christian males have finally gotten fed up w/ these welfare recipients who have moved to America, Canada, England, Scandanavia and Australia just to leach off the liberal gov’ts of these nations. I believe the tide’s turning.
We’re talking about Ramirez and gangbangers, but we should be scared of conservative, white, christian males returning from Iraq and Afghanistan pissed off, jobless and wondering why others have benefitted while they have nothing.
We have been told, on leaving our native soil, that we are going to defend the sacred rights conferred on us by so many of our citizens settled overseas, so many years of our presence, so many benefits brought by us to populations in need of our assistance and our civilization.
We were able to verify that all this was true, and, because it was true, we did not hesitate to shed our quota of blood, to sacrifice our youth and our hopes. We regretted nothing, but whereas we over here are inspired by this frame of mind, I am told that in Rome, factions and conspiracies are rife, that treachery flourishes, and that many people in their uncertainty and confusion lend a ready ear to the dire temptations of relinquishment and vilify our action.
I cannot believe that all this is true and yet recent wars have shown how pernicious such a state of mind could be and where it could lead.
Make haste to reassure me, I beg you, and tell me that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware of the anger of the legions.
SEAL Team VI posts candidate photos in their corridor, check mark if the guy is good to go, X if the guy is unsat. Now that they are filling slots again, about 25 to be exact, here’s a little trivia question: Where did they get this tradition from?
Answer: From Metro & SWAT. If they didn’t like you, they turned your photo in the hallway upside down, meaning dark skinned candidates usually had upside down photos. SEALs thought this was cool and adopted it. 1984 Olympics.
The UK cannot arrest its way out of violence and should tackle the underlying causes of unrest such as racial tensions, the prime minister’s new crime adviser, US “supercop” Bill Bratton, has warned.
The former New York and Los Angeles police chief, who will meet David Cameron next month to share his expertise in tackling gang violence and street crime, said crime-fighting solutions that have worked in the US, such as making police forces more ethnically diverse, could get results in the UK.
Bratton said British police needed to focus on calming racial tensions by working more with community leaders and civil rights groups, noting that communities could not “arrest their way out” of gang crime.
Employing more police officers from ethnic minority communities was another potential long-term solution to stopping future disorder, he said.
“Part of the issue going forward is how to make policing more attractive to a changing population,” said Bratton.
Los Angeles and New York had benefited from police forces that “reflect the ethnic make-up of the cities”.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-sheriff-investigation-20110820,0,860130.story
Shanna Blackburn, who lived in Section 8 housing in Palmdale, said she was “glad that something is being done…. It’s just been totally discrimination, totally harassment.”
The 37-year-old said armed sheriff’s deputies showed up at her door four years ago. It was early morning and she was out taking her younger children to school. Her 17-year-old son was at home. Deputies accused him of being a gang member and raided Blackburn’s home in search of evidence to confirm that, she said.
They confiscated Blackburn’s computer and took her son, leaving a search warrant on her kitchen counter.
Blackburn insisted that her son was a good student and had never been in trouble. Deputies found nothing in the raid and her son was never charged, Blackburn said. But three months later, Blackburn got notice that her Section 8 benefits were being cut off.
“I’ve been trying to get help, trying to get my benefits back, but we’ve never gotten any help,” she said. The mother of three said she hoped the federal probe might get her “some justice.”