Comments on: The Key to an Honorable Exit from Iraq http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-key-to-an-honorable-exit-from-iraq/ Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:45:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Noocyte http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-key-to-an-honorable-exit-from-iraq/#comment-262092 Noocyte Tue, 19 May 2009 04:21:10 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=56437#comment-262092 While Scott's point may come across --with respect-- a smidge histrionic, his underlying thesis does have merit. However richly they may deserve it (and they surely do), care must be exercised in the nurturing of Kurdish empowerment. As indicated above, several states (notably Turkey) are a mite twitchy about the notion of Kurds having their way. Still, supporting an emphasis on existing Constitutional provisions for a strongly federalist policy toward the KRG is just good sense. The kind of robust Kurdistan which is straining to burst forth would be a gusher of prosperity (literally) for the Iraqi state. As long as due tithes flow Baghdad way, and nationalistic sentiments are kept carefully in check, it is a win-win, North to South. I think the position of the article is a tad over the line (I fear it underestimates the centrifugal forces that position's implementation would amplify). However, somewhere short of Scott's Scary Place there is a sensible spot where an existing reality can be yoked to the possibilities of an even better one to come. While Scott’s point may come across –with respect– a smidge histrionic, his underlying thesis does have merit.

However richly they may deserve it (and they surely do), care must be exercised in the nurturing of Kurdish empowerment. As indicated above, several states (notably Turkey) are a mite twitchy about the notion of Kurds having their way.

Still, supporting an emphasis on existing Constitutional provisions for a strongly federalist policy toward the KRG is just good sense. The kind of robust Kurdistan which is straining to burst forth would be a gusher of prosperity (literally) for the Iraqi state. As long as due tithes flow Baghdad way, and nationalistic sentiments are kept carefully in check, it is a win-win, North to South.

I think the position of the article is a tad over the line (I fear it underestimates the centrifugal forces that position’s implementation would amplify). However, somewhere short of Scott’s Scary Place there is a sensible spot where an existing reality can be yoked to the possibilities of an even better one to come.

]]> By: typos_R_us http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-key-to-an-honorable-exit-from-iraq/#comment-261740 typos_R_us Mon, 18 May 2009 16:16:33 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=56437#comment-261740 scott, you just get a shipment in? I don't see anyone except you advocating a greater Kurdistan with nuclear weapons. Have you ever heard the term " strawman argument "? Maybe you should google that. I would post a link, but you are the only one here that needs it and a little research would be good for you. scott, you just get a shipment in? I don’t see anyone except you advocating a greater Kurdistan with nuclear weapons.
Have you ever heard the term ” strawman argument “? Maybe you should google that. I would post a link, but you are the only one here that needs it and a little research would be good for you.

]]> By: scott http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-key-to-an-honorable-exit-from-iraq/#comment-261561 scott Mon, 18 May 2009 06:15:17 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=56437#comment-261561 Oh yeah. Those wonderful Kurds. Lets pump them up so they can take over eastern Turkey, Northern Iraq and north western Iran. Then everything will be just peachy. And while we're at it maybe we should (sort of on the sly ) help them to acquire nuclear arms. Yeah, that's the ticket. That will stabilize the WHOLLLLLLLLLE world. Oh yeah. Those wonderful Kurds. Lets pump them up so they can take over eastern Turkey, Northern Iraq and north western Iran. Then everything will be just peachy. And while we’re at it maybe we should (sort of on the sly ) help them to acquire nuclear arms. Yeah, that’s the ticket. That will stabilize the WHOLLLLLLLLLE world.

]]> By: Paul http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-key-to-an-honorable-exit-from-iraq/#comment-261464 Paul Mon, 18 May 2009 01:03:42 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=56437#comment-261464 I hope we do the Kurds right, after HW Bush told them to rise up against Saddam's poison gas, and then threw them into hell. Of course FDR did that to the Poles and eastern Europe, and Truman to N. Korea, and Kennedy to the Cubans, and the Ford era Democrat Congress to the Vietnamese, the Mung, the Cambodians. Life is tough when you trust the US. What did Obambi say to the Israelis? ....What ever. Jews aren't that stupid. I hope we do the Kurds right, after HW Bush told them to rise up against Saddam’s poison gas, and then threw them into hell.

Of course FDR did that to the Poles and eastern Europe, and Truman to N. Korea, and Kennedy to the Cubans, and the Ford era Democrat Congress to the Vietnamese, the Mung, the Cambodians.

Life is tough when you trust the US.

What did Obambi say to the Israelis? ….What ever. Jews aren’t that stupid.

]]> By: typos_R_us http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-key-to-an-honorable-exit-from-iraq/#comment-261408 typos_R_us Sun, 17 May 2009 22:06:23 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=56437#comment-261408 Iraq is lost and history will credit the Usurper with losing it. With a date certain, all the terrs have to do is wait until the US is gone, then dig up their guns or get new ones from Syris, Iran, KSA, etc. and the party is back on. The left rejected this argument against a date certain and now they will find out how valid it is. They won't have to pay for it however. The long suffering Iraq commoners will shed the blood for the left's mistake. Because it takes more then voting to make a democracy, Bush's noble idea that Iraq could act as a seed bed for Democracy in the ME never really had a chance. What there was in Iraq was the opportunity to put in place some of the prerequisites for democracy. Democracy requires a population literate enough to staff a bureaucracy that is reasonably free of corruption to the point where they can turn laws into rules that provide for all citizens a more or less level playing field. Democracy also requires citizens that are literate enough to read those rules and wealthy enough to have the leisure time to contemplate them. Somebody that just worked a 16 hour day and still has to feed the kids, take out the trash, do laundry, etc. before dropping exhausted into bed to do it all over again in a few hours hasn't the time or energy to think about politics. Given those 3 things and a little security, ANY society can develop it's own brand of Democracy. Without them it is extremely difficult. The Usurper has kicked out the security leg that supports all the rest. The left is going to claim that the Iraqi's are capable of providing their own security. No evidence of that. When the Iraqi security forces get involved with the upcoming civil war in Iraq, they will become the biggest part of the problem, not part of the solution. It takes generations for a national military to become truly national and not an instrument of the latest Tyrant de' Jour. There have been US troops in Germany for 3 generations now (63 years). If the US withdrew those troops, within a decade the French and Germans would be back to killing each other. With Russia wanting in on the action too. No nations drops thousands of years of history in a generation or two. Or even three. Maybe in another 100 years Germany and France can be left alone in the same room without being restrained and searched for sharp objects. Iraq is lost and history will credit the Usurper with losing it. With a date certain, all the terrs have to do is wait until the US is gone, then dig up their guns or get new ones from Syris, Iran, KSA, etc. and the party is back on.
The left rejected this argument against a date certain and now they will find out how valid it is. They won’t have to pay for it however. The long suffering Iraq commoners will shed the blood for the left’s mistake.
Because it takes more then voting to make a democracy, Bush’s noble idea that Iraq could act as a seed bed for Democracy in the ME never really had a chance. What there was in Iraq was the opportunity to put in place some of the prerequisites for democracy.
Democracy requires a population literate enough to staff a bureaucracy that is reasonably free of corruption to the point where they can turn laws into rules that provide for all citizens a more or less level playing field. Democracy also requires citizens that are literate enough to read those rules and wealthy enough to have the leisure time to contemplate them. Somebody that just worked a 16 hour day and still has to feed the kids, take out the trash, do laundry, etc. before dropping exhausted into bed to do it all over again in a few hours hasn’t the time or energy to think about politics.
Given those 3 things and a little security, ANY society can develop it’s own brand of Democracy. Without them it is extremely difficult. The Usurper has kicked out the security leg that supports all the rest.
The left is going to claim that the Iraqi’s are capable of providing their own security. No evidence of that. When the Iraqi security forces get involved with the upcoming civil war in Iraq, they will become the biggest part of the problem, not part of the solution. It takes generations for a national military to become truly national and not an instrument of the latest Tyrant de’ Jour.
There have been US troops in Germany for 3 generations now (63 years). If the US withdrew those troops, within a decade the French and Germans would be back to killing each other. With Russia wanting in on the action too. No nations drops thousands of years of history in a generation or two. Or even three. Maybe in another 100 years Germany and France can be left alone in the same room without being restrained and searched for sharp objects.

]]> By: shaui-jan http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-key-to-an-honorable-exit-from-iraq/#comment-261278 shaui-jan Sun, 17 May 2009 15:34:47 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=56437#comment-261278 good article,thanks for the links...they were very informative. joe biden was right abut something?broken clocks....know what i mean. good article,thanks for the links…they were very informative.
joe biden was right abut something?broken clocks….know what i mean.

]]> By: Chap http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-key-to-an-honorable-exit-from-iraq/#comment-261222 Chap Sun, 17 May 2009 13:17:05 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=56437#comment-261222 "Honorable Exit?" What a poor choice of phrase. “Honorable Exit?”

What a poor choice of phrase.

]]> By: john from cinncinatti http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-key-to-an-honorable-exit-from-iraq/#comment-261195 john from cinncinatti Sun, 17 May 2009 12:05:06 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=56437#comment-261195 will there be a no fly zone for the Turks or will there be more room under the bus for the Kurds. the notion of a strong Kurdistan freaks the Turks out. the Arabs want more control, poor Kurdistan so close to the United States, so far from God. what would Obama do? will there be a no fly zone for the Turks or will there be more room under the bus for the Kurds. the notion of a strong Kurdistan freaks the Turks out. the Arabs want more control, poor Kurdistan so close to the United States, so far from God. what would Obama do?

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