Rape is wrong. So are tax fraud, rape, murder, and child sex slavery. So are lots of other things.

But actual smart, thinking humans don’t need to believe in an imaginary being to tell them that, either. And it doesn’t matter whether they call that being “Allah”, “God”, or “Buddha” – its still imaginary.

Its also wrong to think its a good idea to take money away from people who worked for it to provide cushy benefits to those that don’t. (If you raise taxes enough to give free money to the poor, eventually people will wise up and quit working, assuming there was anyone left to be employing them anyway. Then we can all ‘live off the government’ – except there will be no one left working to tax)

Nonsense. Dollar for dollar one of the most effective charities around is the Salvation Army. I remember reading a WSJ article about how much more effective the Salvation Army and Catholic Charities were in the Gulf region after Katrina than even the Red Cross. They were far more effective than the government at any level.

Church charities have far lower overhead costs than government programs and get much more bang for their buck. I have done volunteer work in missions – I know how far they can make a dollar stretch. They’re good at it because they’ve been doing it for 2000 years.

Now – point me to the atheist soup kitchens and shelters. I haven’t noticed many of them – have you? The Red Cross is now secular but it started out as a Christian organization.

P.S. I attend a pretty 120 year old church. I have no problem with part of my donations paying for restoration work and paint and light bulbs. Do you think churches magically stay in pristine condition? Churches have bills and salaries to pay like anybody else and they have to pay for it somehow. If someone embezzles funds, well, they should be punished just as they’d be punished for embezzling from anyone else.

MD: Mr. Fleming was being satirical. Yes, I realize that leftists actually say things like that nowadays.

That’s not my point at all, my point is rather than posture on things they are powerless to affect you should save your moral outrage for local events you can.

The reason why Christians like to do that is because it lets them off the hook for real issues they can change. It’s easier to talk about Polanksi than it is to actually do stuff, sometimes stuff the church even offers.

This wasn’t something any amount of speaking up would influence. It was a crime that happened over thirty years ago, which was an issue because the person evaded justice by fleeing the USA.

Contrast this with acting to help people struck with unemployment, or helping senior citizens, or one of the many local moral acts which people can do and can influence.

You know where all that charity money goes? Right back into the church and parachurch organizations that use it to build multi-million dollar buildings and pad the salaries of preachers and a whole clerical staff. Half the time it isn’t even invested in their own community, but sent to some big ministry that uses it to buy airtime or stage huge revival events.

It’s not about setting the terms of discussion. I’ll split the post, because the reply answers #52 donna as well. Pajamas needs to really have forums instead of comment boxes.

When Christians shut up or worse, join the amoral, we are up the creek.

Quite true. The *cough* reasoning displayed by dblade is “Christians aren’t perfect, they sometimes do wrong, so they can never say a deed done by someone else is bad.” In other words, if you’re divorced, you can’t condemn a rapist.

It’s a silly, silly argument that, if taken to extremes, would mean criminals could run amok because, well, we all sin. I took quarters out of my mom’s purse when I was 8, so how dare I say a man who commits an armed robbery should go to jail?

dblade, in case you’re unaware of it, both the NY Times and the WaPo editorialized against Polanski and left-wing feminists like Katha Pollit have condemned him, so this isn’t just a matter of right-wing “prudes” (it’s prudish to be revolted by rape, I guess) throwing stones at a great artiste. Not all leftists make excuses for the kiddy-raper, but I’ve noticed that all of his excusers happen to be leftists.

If we speak not about moral issues, who then shall be the good angels on the shoulders of our leaders? Should we not balance out in some small way the overwhelming assault on our culture by the forces of decay?

You truly believe we do no good works? Christians give more to charity than anyone! Republicans, on average, give four times as much to charity than do Democrats. The Christians account for most of that giving. Do missionaries do no good works whilst they proselytize around the world? Do they not sacrifice greatly to do so? Who do you think sets up and mans these domeatic and international charities to care for the poor of the world?

Finally, should we only discuss the issues the Dems want to discuss, because they deem the other things of no importance? Shall we allow only them to set the terms of discussions? What, prithee, is wrong with discussing things like this, and bringing them into the American consciousness, these discussions of Right and Wrong? Does this not benefit the country to discuss Right and Wrong? Why do you protest such; dismiss them airily, or rather, sneeringly? What, I ask, is wrong with you, that such discussions seem to you contemptible?