The Grand Old Pile-On
It’s not that Boehner doesn’t have allies among the old guard, though, and some are coming to his rescue. John McCain has called for a return to business as usual and for the unruly freshmen to line up behind their speaker. He went so far as to call out the Tea Party by name, calling their demands for a balanced budget amendment “foolish.” He spiced up his statements with a few more choice adjectives, including “bizarre,” pouring additional salt into the wounds.
Not everyone’s “help” may wind up being welcome. When you see the Wall Street Journal telling the “Tea Party Hobbits” to “go back to Middle Earth,” some of the wheels may be coming off the wagon.
Boehner’s opponents from the other side of the aisle — as well as their supporters — have been quick to take notice. Some of the usual suspects are absolutely gloating at what they perceive as a conservative implosion. I noticed one Democratic wag on Twitter this week chortling that the “draconian” cuts to entitlement programs might be “almost worth it just to watch the pubbies eat their own livers.”
So is there a Republican schism in process? The short answer, I’m afraid, would have to be yes, but it’s neither as deep nor as institutional as liberal critics might hope. It’s not as if one entire arm of the GOP has suddenly surrendered to their inner RINOs and become lovers of big spending and high taxes. (Though when you have loyalists breaking out the “R word” on Allen West, even in a joking fashion, you do have to wonder.)
In reality, though, what we’re seeing is a battle over style and approach rather than substance or policy. The old timers in the House have had a long time to learn to deal with the art of the possible, while the hot-blooded freshmen still seem to be embracing a take-no-prisoners mentality. What I see as the biggest difference is that the senior establishment-types have remembered that they still lack control of the upper chamber and the White House. Some of the newer folks are approaching reform as if they’ve already elected sixty Republican senators and a new president.
Hopefully John Boehner will remember the one powerful tool at his disposal which is his own experience in Congress. He’s trying to herd a very large group of belligerent bucks into the corral right now. But just two decades ago he was one of those young bucks himself. The speaker will do well to keep that in mind.
they still lack control of the upper chamber and the White House. Some of the newer folks are approaching reform as if they’ve already elected sixty Republican senators and a new president.
That seems to me to be the answer to the current debt-ceiling debate, too. What can the GOP do until 2013 but pass stop-gap measures and keep dumping the fail in the Democrats’ lap?
That’s the key, arhooley.
To NOT loose the “blame game” – angry voters holding the GOP responsible if the budget battle falls apart and America suffers.
So that it will not jeapordize and destroy the very thing that may turn out to be America’s last hope – November, 2012.
That’s what Obama’s trying to accomplish… and what we must avoid at all costs.
Try to get the best deal – then regime-change in November.
Cheers.
“Asses”, Mister Speaker? Go fnck yourself.
If there is a schism, so what? That’s what real debate is about. Does anybody really think any citizen who actually understands the epic shortcomings of Barack Obama, is going to suddenly change their vote to Barry because of a good Republican in-fight? Hell no.
John McCain is as worthless as hind teat on a boar hog. The only reason McCain is tolerated is because he is not Barack Obama and he’s better than Harry Reid. Sit down and shut up John.
couldn’t agree more. Mccain needs to shut up and learn what fighting for principles is all about. He is the great compromiser and proud of it. He helped get us where we are today. Without Palin he loses to this clown by double digits. Oh….but he’s so conservative. Retire already!
Has any conservative who insists on raising the debt ceiling written any comprehensive analysis to attempt to convince the unconvinced about the ‘disaster’ that will happen by not raising the debt ceiling? I’ll read it if you send the link. I promise. I think that forcing the government to lay off 40% of our government is a feature and definitely not a bug. All the discussion about Republicans only controlling half of one third of our government completely ignores the House’s near-total power of the purse.
Shut ‘er down!
Yes. Shut ‘er down. Teach everyone a lesson that will save our country from tyrants and covert destroyers. IMF gal is crying telling us if we “default” it will be tragic for Europe and us. Well that sounds good. Backlash to you, lady. We saved Europeans butts, France betrayed us by turning Socialist and would be speaking German without us, Europe has done nothing to improve their lot or ours, and show no respect for the blood of our soldiers still drenched in their soil. Poland had a great leader who K.O.’d the commies, and those blockheads went snooty and dishonored him by relegating his heroism to confines of union work. Lech Walesa. Lech went to ChiTown to support a guy running for a political office, he did that because he can smell commies a world away, and because so many cheered him from the USA, he rushed to our aid. The stupes in ChiTown can’t get their noses away from their chained desk jobs long enough to have a moment of courage and not vote for the creeps they now have in power. So… I say shut ‘er down. Hold the line. NO tax increases. CUT spending. Do NOT raise that debt ceiling. Fight the Battle of the Bulging Debt. We can rebuild, Yes WE can. Kick that can in the WH on down the road. Take No Prisoners. Hold the Line. Boehner Better Battle or he’s OUT.
What is Pajamas Media thinking, posting a story like this? We are not going to compromise! Why would we want to do things “the old way” when that is how we got into this mess. I am proud of those new Senators who are fighting and causing trouble. They have backbone! They are actually working for the people!
Washington better listen up and stop snickering. Their end is near!
LOVE your response DeclarationOfIndependence!
["We are not going to compromise!"]
Then you are advocating an overthrow of the government by a small minority of a minority party….that in NO way represents the majority of the nation, much less the majority of their own party.
Have to love those Tea party folks whose rhetoric is that they are the last of the ardent patriotic supporters and defenders of the constitution…yet, they have total disregard for the constitution and the constitutional processes.
COMPROMISE is the constitutional grant in allowing for ‘equal representation’ (not equal power) of the minority in the government processes. The constitutional process grants to the majority of the people and the representatives they elect, the power of the government.
If you can’t compromise as a minority…get out of the way and out of the constitutional processes of government until you represent the majority of something! All you’re causing in this time of crisis is a further dysfunctional GOP and a dysfunctional congress and government.
Go back to the origins and platform of the Tea party movement and you ‘might regain some momentum of respect in and across party lines!
Advocating that elected officials use the power of their elected office to work to bring about the results desired by the folks who elected is not, not advocating the overthrow of the government. You are quite bad at spin.
They may be a minority in the party, but the represent the majority of Americans, and are doing what they said they would do if elected. When the democrats controlled all of congress and the presidency, what did they do? They went against the will of the American people and enacted the health care law. So you supposition is that if they go against the established Republicans, they are advocating an overthrow of the Constitution. This is false, and very assuming. Many polls out show that 60% http://www.foxnews.com/interactive/politics/2011/07/20/fox-news-poll-majority-against-raising-debt-ceiling/
do not want the debt ceiling raised at all, so you have another falsity in your statement.
Small minority of a minority Party? Really, TT?
Republicans control completely, I believe, 18 States, and have the Governor’s mansion in 26 States. The 2010 election completely reversed the control in the House, almost exactly reversing the number of Dems/Pubs.
This was all made possible by the people who elected those freshman Congressmen, and they know it. They are flexing their muscles, because they have muscle. There are 87 of them, but 178 out of 240 Repubs in Congress rejected Boehner’s first plan.
Republicans are the majority, not minority Party. Those newbies demanding more are merely the bow wave of what comes behind. They are not the minority of the Pubs in Congress, else Boehner could ignore them. They are the new breed, and Boehner better reconcile himself to that harsh fact. You, too, TT.
Their speaking up is a feature, not a bug. It is what they were specifically elected to do. They are the people’s new voice in government. If they do not speak up, then the election mean nothing, and there is no hope for this country. Elections MUST have consequences, or why bother having them? Without that specific ability to change things, we have an oligarchy, not a Republic.
It’s Boehner who has to get his ass in line. Without these new guys, he is not Speaker. They are the hand that feeds him. Also, if they decide they want a new Speaker, they will get a new Speaker, so Boehner should be careful how he talks to them.
Bravo, TL, Bob and Marc Malone. TT obviously has it in for the Tea Party. The Democrats have their unions, environmentalists, ACORNs and moveon.orgs. The Tea Party groups and their members have as much right to exist as any other. Or at least, last I heard. And they get no government funding or benefits.
This is not the first time you have made reference to the Tea Party and the Constitution, suggesting that the Tea Partiers are hypocrites, arguing that Tea Partiers are showing “total disregard for the constitution and the constitutional processes.”
Perhaps you just like to refer to the Constitution as if you have some understanding. Please explain precisely what “disregard” the Tea Partiers show for the constitution. Which article of the Constitution does the Tea Party disregard? Maybe it is that old lefty standby, “The Good and Plenty Clause.”
Well gee, if he hadn’t been at least partially responsible for the disasters of the late Bush administration (Amnesty? What a good idea! Spending bills? Why not!) and then again if he had not (and I’ll be generous here) gotten rolled by Harry Reid, starting with a promise of a 100 billion cut and then ending with a 17 billion budget INCREASE… maybe his caucus and the voter base at large would have more confidence in his leadership.
Boehner never should have been speaker. He does not possess the constitutional fortitude. He drinks, smokes, is emotionally weak. When will the R’s learn? McCain for Pres and Boehner for speaker…god help us.
Boehner?
Oh, excuse me, I thought you were talking about U.S.Grant!
The smoking and drinking doesn’t make him weak. It’s his character that makes him weak, or rather his lack of character. He talked a decent game in the beginning, but he’s backsliding now. If he actually flips on this issue they better oust him, this is his last chance to stand tall and do what he said he would when he got re-elected.
John McCain once again demonstrating why lost the election. Why would anyone want 90% of a elitist democratic when they could have the whole package in Barack Obama. I’m not sure what kind of skullduggery propelled McCain to the front of the Republican ticket in 2008, but I’m sure there was some. Maybe Bush helped him out in order the smooth over the animosity that McCain had for him for ‘stealing’ his seat in 2000. I remember wishing it was McCain that had gotten the nomination back then, boy what I’ve learned in eleven years about the most despicable, politically calculating, elitist knucklehead in the Senate. I’m wagging my finger firmly in your direction, Arizona, for falling for his little conservative trickery in 2010.
Well, you know how McCain destroyed Arizona, and is floating on his crap. Remember the Keating Five! Remember McCain’s pal California’s Alan Cranston… borderless pushing commie, met his maker thank heaven. Hope McCain spends his eternity with buddy Al. Astro Glenn was part of that palship so not surprised he did nothing to stop the destroyer from killing our biggest NASA program and enlisting our Astronauts on board with Russia. Dang, how stupid do we look. Guess that’s what the McCains and their progressive family females think about us. Stupid. So… Americans, DO CALL HIS BLUFF. Best time for us to “fail” is NOW. We will run with that, we will elect people who will IMPROVE our country, stay in the new Balanced Budget Amendment which we WILL have, and give us industries and opportunities for new JOBS. I see it that if we Fail, we Win. Hold that line and make Boehner not wimp out.
Senator McCain, what happened to that fighter pilot you used to be? I don’t expect you to still be able to fly a plane, but what happened to your spirit? You resisted torture for years, and preserved your honor as an American sailor by refusing special favors from the enemy when it would have been so easy for you to accept an early release, but now you seem to have lost your fighting spirit.
No American military man would experience torture when captured and come back and do what this character has done to this country. He was rewarded by good Americans with lifetime powerjob. He mooned the USA as a backstabbing one-world govt border destroying sneak. His use of power in govt shows he sure didn’t get too angry with his captors. Maybe he thinks the MIAs have been treated as well as he was and that’s why he laid off of rescuing them. Maybe his high ranking military papa who talked with the captors did things to ease his boy’s environment, like sacrificing a few Americans, like sacrificing a few secrets. Just thinkin’ how it might have worked. Maybe the likes of Swiftboat men need to review Mr. McCain’s history. Come on, military, clean up the mess. We WANT the truth and we CAN handle the truth.
I hate to say it, but the Boehner plan is probably the best we can hope for. Remember, we do NOT hold the Senate or the White House, so if this plan is somehow accepted by both of them, take the deal. It will also force Obama to deal with this issue around April of next year, right during the election season. I’m sure Obama would choke on that, but he would have to deal with it if he accepts the Boehner plan. Also, if Obama and the Democrats kill this plan, then they really own the debt crisis and the meltdown that follows.
If our primary goal is to get a Republican Senate and a Republican in the White House in 2012, then we need to somehow get this plan to the President. Let Obama veto it, if he dares. Because if he does, then he’ll have to explain to the American people why he caused the financial meltdown. The prize is 2012, not 2011. Let’s see if we can get there in one piece.
The problem with Boehner is the sold out during the budget talks earlier this year, and now nobody trusts him.
Nixon could go to China because people knew where he stood on the Communist.
Boehner isn’t going to have any backing, because the Tea Party knows he will sell them out. And if they are looking at the politics of it, they would worry about getting reelected if they come back with nothing to show.
Mr. Shaw’s message seems to be that as soon as the underlings get smart, sit down, shut up and let the experts run the show things will be fine just like they always have been.
The underlings are the new guys on campus; which are nothing more than the American people, everyday voters, clods really and the experts, of course are the seasoned old timers, John McCain; the establishment power brotherhood of deal breakers and king makers.
The fundamental flaw to this kind of political thinking is that it used to work, but it will not now.
A lot has changed from then, 20 years or so ago when John Boehner was a young buck versus now. Among them are:
Three thousand innocent people murdered of September 11th, 2001, tens of thousands of lives ripped into shreds thereafter.
A black man elected president of the United States who could have taken the hopes and dreams of an entire race of people to heretofore unimaginable levels of achievement, dignity and worldwide respect; instead who chose to trash the opportunity for his own convoluted delight and satisfaction.
The proudest, most productive, most respected, most envied, most relied on and most sought after nation on Earth in every respect in less than two (2) years reduced to nothing more than common, hopeless street beggar status worldwide.
But, for even more poignant understandings of why the old corps way no longer applies take a look at what isn’t in the shopping carts of the typical red blooded American mothers with two or three kids in the super markets while they must get out of the way of the endless streams of illegal Hispanics and middle easterners whose carts are loaded with the best fruits, produce and meats go through the checkouts and pay with cash.
The thing that Mr. Shaw doesn’t see, or John Boehner doesn’t see or anyone in Congress except those unruly, wild young bucks is that not only have Americans been pushed to the end of their essential patience, they are now having to cope and deal with the reality of being forced to watch their own children and family members starve as a result of the games being played in Washington, DC.
This article is a clear demonstration of a lack of understanding of exactly how deep the schism is and how high the stakes really are. We should (the author implies) all just grow up from our childish fantasies and get with the program of how Washington operates. Written by a (self-described) ‘former rino’ – I’d say, still a rino, based on his blindness to the seriousness of what is really going on.
Boehner has sold out. Our only hope are the newcomers holding the line.
I have seen arguments in favor of the Boehner plan that call it ‘inevitable’. This is said by people who cannot see Congress not coming together to raise the debt limit since that ‘would be unthinkable’. But more ‘unthinkable’ for Democrates in the Senate is cutting the budget without punishing ‘the rich’. The House passes the Boehner plan and then Harry Reid kills it, what then? Do we go to the McConnell plan? Because we cannot expect to accomplish anything until the Republicans have the Senate and the White House? Do the people’s representatives have no power unless its blessed by the King and his nobles? Isn’t devided government supposed to stop or, at least, slow things down?
I do wonder how it is that dems can stop any GOP agenda even when in the minority, but the GOP must “compromise” even in the majority. Stick to your guns boys. BamBam and scary can’t get their greasy little fingers on a dime you guys don’t let them have. Let them little piggies sequel all the way home. I want to see some stuff RAMMED down their throat as was done to us with obeyme-care! I will not be holding my breath however. The GOP are experts at letting crisis’ go to waste and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
The debt argument in layman’s terms. (Cut and paste to your search engine)
http://jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/?p=951
What the debt looks likes when it’s in piles of hundred dollar bills:
http://www.wtfnoway.com/
The Dem’s plan is laughable, but not even Ryan’s plan adressed the underlying problem. Boehner’s plan cuts nothing from present spending levels. Nothing is being cut to levels seen in 2005, let alone in 2001. iow, even the Republican plan is an ADDITION to the current levels of spendng!!!
For more of the math, google: ‘The Market Ticker.’ Read. Research. Think for yourself, instead of spouting ideological talking points from either party in D.C.
And while the Old Timers deal in the art of the possible, the debt ceiling is raised, no serious cuts are imposed, nothing is reformed, and business as usual carries the day as we continue to spend ourselves into oblivion.
It is not about tactics. It is about substance. The Boehner plan has no substance. It has no real cuts. It does not deal with the issue. It will not stop the credit rating from being downgraded. It deals with nothing of substance.
What Boehner has set in motion is the demise of the Republican party. He has forgotten his promises. He promised to repeal or defund Obamacare. He failed. He promised to control spending. He is in the process of failing. All the man knows how to do is fail. He needs to resign.
Here is the scenario that will play out in the next couple of weeks.
1. The Boehner plan will pass with enough arm twisting.
2. Democrats will reluctantly allow enough votes to pass the measure in the Senate.
3. Since the Boehner plan does not deal with the real issue of spending, the U.S. credit rating will be downgraded.
4. Democrats will point at the Boehner plan as the reason for the downgrade. The MSM will run with the story and the Republicans will be saddled with having permited increased spending and injury to American credit.
5. Voters will have one less reason to vote for the Republicans in 2012.
Old Time GOP leaders like Boehner and McCain only know how to lose. McCain should not be giving anyone advice. He is the only GOP presidential candidate that made Dole look like a winner.
How about this scenario:
1. Nobody’s plan passes next week.
2. Government defaults.
3. Equity markets go into a tailspin.
4. Worldwide depression, the dollar is dumped as a medium of int’l exchange.
5. Suddenly, the US can’t pay for oil imports by printing dollars.
6. American public blames the Republicans.
7. Obama reelected in ’12, along with a Dem majority in both houses.
There are already rumors that a lot of Wall Street types are buying gold and converting stock holdings to cash.
By my count the Republicans have already passed two plans – CCB and the Ryan Budget. Neither the Senate nor Mr. Obama have a plan. All Boehner has to do is point that out.
Oh, sure…The President who lets the US default on his watch will be re-elected. You need to step back and take a “wider lens” look at how this will be viewed.
Obama is President, not Boehner. Obama has no plan, other than to lecture those who know far more than he does.
The pimpstream media has been spinning this in favor of Obama and the Dems, but if the US defaults, whoever is in the White House is going to take the fall.
However, Boehner and the Republicans have proven every day that they are among the country’s most incompetent negotiators. This has been an almost daily lesson in how not to negotiate. What a disaster. Now they will send yet another plan to Reid, who will rewrite it, pass it, and send it back to the House at the last minute– filled with landmines for Republicans. The Republicans will have to cave, because there absolutely will not be a default. It will not happen. That is the surest bet of the century.
Boehner’s plan is not the best we can get. It is not any better than nothing, because it is nothing. It is so much of a joke that if it weren’t a sad sick joke, all 300 million of us could die laughing over it, especially Obam-ma.
There is a House Speaker named Boehner
Who is not a crier but a rainer.
He will rant and he’d rave,
But answer: will he cave?
Are you kidding, that’s a no brainer!
Why does there always have to be a grand plan with somebody’s name on it? If someone in the House of Reps. has an idea for saving several billion dollars — and I’m not talking about planning to spend less on something 10 years from now — attach it to a bill to increase the debt ceiling by that same several billion dollars, pass it out of the House and send it on to the Senate, and see whether they like it. Any Representative and his staff can play. Because the Republicans control the House, they can make sure that no tax increases disguised as spending cuts get treated like this, and also keep an eye on whether proposed cuts in the military are wise. Pass everybody’s ideas and see which ones fly. I think this sort of Chinese menu approach has a much better chance of succeeding. As Reagan is said to have pointed out, it’s amazing what you can get done if you don’t try to take credit for it.
Like with Obamacare, the bribes are not big enough to push anything through. Nelson,Snow, etc. etc..
Monday, maybe late Tuesday, something will be passed and we will find out who got what. The Chicago way, now the Washington way.
No pride, No morals, Congressman and Senators and the Prez.
I pray that I am wrong.
Speaker Boo-Hoo’s plan is worse than nothing.
It gives the over-spender in chief a new credit card now and sets up a committee (consisting of 6 demos & 6 rinos) that will ‘recommend’ cuts that will occur 10 years down the road — BUT only if future congresses agree to do some that this one will not do (= cut spending)
CUT SPENDING NOW
If the Donks have already said no on the reasonable deal, then you reply with the UNREASONABLE deal, which makes the first deal look a whole lot better. The one thing you DON’T do is start moving in the Dimocraps direction, cause that tells them to keep being A-holes and eventually the GOP will cave. And the GOP needs to stop worrying about the Media. The media is an arm of the DNC, and is against them no matter what. Since the Lame Stream Media is going to do their level best to make the GOP look bad anyway, the GOP might as well “go for the gold” on deficit, budget, and debt negotiations.
Margaret Atwood’s Handmaid’s Tale proposes that conservatism, by it’s nature, becomes more radicalized with each generation. What you are seeing is the end result of years of coddling epistemic closure, of allowing yourselves to put belief ahead of evidence. And now you get to keep it.
I’ve been predicting that Obama would drive the GOP to this for years. Happy to see you keep the blinkers on just a little longer. Just long enough to for the mendacious, vile partisan wing of the GOP to shatter your credibility in front of the US electorate.
Thanks guys. We libs really appreciate it.
As European social and economic liberalism crumbles and those societies slide into oblivion, the American left embraces the same path. Liberalism by nature is stupid. Liberals have no evidence, except for what they manufacture out of whole cloth. What really turns my stomach is that you liberals worship a foolish Messiah who has destroyed our economy and hurt the very people you claim to support. Obama is Epic Fail – just like liberalism.
As to Conservatism becoming more radical, you analysis and that of Doltwood is wrong. Conservatism, anchored in truth and tradition, does not gravitate to the extremes. Liberalism, anchored in moral relativism, gravitates toward radicalism. Conservatism has not changed. It may only appear more radical to you because of how far you have drifted and your lack of intellectual perspective.
We won.
Got to love ya Marc! Won what? Seats? The jury is still waiting for anything…anything to tally in the win-loss column. Legislatively, theres nothing yet to count and consequences certainly are not in play yet to tally real wins from real losses.
If the Republicans do nothing else but stop the Obama Destroy America agenda, I will count it a victory. The people have shown that they will not quietly go into that good night that Mr. Obama has prepared for us.
“The people have shown….” What are your credentials again to speak on behalf od the people of the nation…much less a majority of the people?
Thats the kind of arrogant ignorance that will leave the Tea party eventually standing as lonely little mobs in rent past due cubicles and behind the doors of foreclosure tagged homes.
Rant all your fed talking points but November 5th, 2012 (you know, the election the Tea party doesn’t have the brass hanging to run through an official party of their own) will settle the debate for that moment.
Boner had better listen to the Tea Party members or risk loosing his job! As for the Arizona Senator, he needs to resign. The entire world can see his mind slipping. Why is it not manditory that everyone that goes to Congress get a refresher course in the US Constitution.
By the way how about a pay for performance scheme for Congress. Increase the debt…loose money, increase inflation….loose money, loose jobs…..loose money.
John McCain You have broken my heart AGAIN.
God Bless the TEA party!
Jazz is as squishy here as he is on HA. Jazz is not a former RINO. His stance is full force RINO. The Boss disagrees and she’s not a radical. We’re just Conservatives. That is something RINOs do not comprehend because they’re mere Corporatists with no principles and therefore have no internal dial indicating when you aren’t maintaining your personal integrity. RINOs simply don’t function that way.
Who are we compromising with really? Ourselves! Reid and Obama haven’t been forced to do a thing. All they have done is say what they won’t accept. Let them put in writing a budget and defend it. But they won’t because RINOs won’t look them in the eyes and tell them The Truth. The best we could do is on your desk. You won’t budge Reid. Well my folks won’t budge either no matter how many times you call cut cap & balance radical.
Really? CCB Radical? Spending over 10% of GDP in 3 years which is three times as much as Reagan ever did in his entire time in office and more akin to spending under FDR during The Depression isn’t radical? But cut cap & balance is? Hmmm. Only a RINO would agree with that stance, because it’s false on a false premise. Cut cap & balance is the best you’re getting Reid. Take it off the table and vote on it. Let us SEE who won’t vote for it. Then you give us your version. Let the American public weigh in on the facts. Not a memo listing hyperbole of a wish list and no itemized policy of how you’re are really gonna get from A to Z. A real budget. Because until then all we’re doing is debating rhetoric and empty words and our own people.
Why not fight with the ones who really deserve the Fight versus the ones who understand the #s I just touted, what these #s mean to the American Economy, and wanting to only do what’s best in this situation. Seriously? Why do you choose to fight against The Boss’ side then Democrats? Is your half of the GOP really that weak? I suspect so based on what I read. None of you push back against the Democrats stance and make demands of them. You turn on your own like ugly rabid dogs.
The House of Representatives has total veto power over funding legislation. There is no funding scheme that can be forced onto the House. The issue is not what the Senate and President would agree to–the Senate and the President need extra trillions, and the House does not need to give it to them.
This “political realism” means accepting some very toxic presumptions: the Democrats are an unbreakable bloc; the Republican Party will not be able to defend its agenda to the general public; honoring the election mandate is not as important as winning the next election.
If I accept those presumptions, what is the purpose of the Republican Party?
I’m sure the Green Party is full of wonderful parents and good neighbors and loyal Americans.
I just don’t want its policy solutions.
Guess that’s good enough reason to ditch the GOP.
Boehner and the House were doing quite well…until they started negotiating against themselves.
The CCB plan was all they needed to talk about, pass and send to the Senate. Let the Dems send back their version, and take it from there. But while they were negotiating, up pops the McConnell plan, a complete disaster and abdication of all responsibility– a “solution” so idiotic that it took attention away from CCB, and just made it real easy for Reid to dismiss CCB. Now we have yet another Boehner plan, while no Democrat has put anything in writing.
Maybe the Republicans will try to write another 6 or 7 bills before the deadline, so that they can really look like they are in complete disarray.
Maybe Boehner will traipse over to the White House for one more meeting, or maybe he will go golfing with Obama again. (And what a stupid thing to do– after Obama went golfing on Memorial Day– to go golfing with Obama and insulate him from the golfing issue.)
The Republicans couldn’t negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag. They have absolutely blown this debt ceiling issue–which they were winning– to smithereens. Dems do nothing and Republicans blow themselves up. Brilliant.
I agree that the McConnel plan was stupid, the negociations with Obama probably futile, and Cut Cap and Balance a good plan. But while CCB is a good proposal to put on the table, it was never something that actually had a serious chance to pass, since it would have needed a 2/3 vote in a dem controlled senate.
But the Boehner plan does have a good chance to pass, since it only requires a senate majority, and it does not give up on any core Tea Party values, but also does not betray any core dem values. It has real spending cuts to match the debt hike, no tax hikes, and will force a future senate vote on a balanced budget amendment, and allows another push for entitlement cuts, and tax reform, in a few months, with time for a fully thought out proposal, without the present crisis atmosphere. The Tea Party should support it.
Shut it down! There is already a plan, it’s called Cut, Cap, and Balance, and it’s barely a week old. So why the need for another one? Just because the Senate can’t pass anything, is no reason for the House to be kissing Reid’s A__. It’s all on the Senate and that should be made clear, not this freakout of the Speaker’s.
Thus is the ways of power, always corrupting. I’m glad that Rand stood up to McCain and the rest of the republicans crashing on the debt ceiling.
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/library/articles-commentary-blog/national-debt-faq
Marc….
["Republicans are the majority, not minority Party."]
Come now Marc! The Tea Part GOP is NOT the majority party of the goverment! They are only a mjority in the House of Representatives.
I posted data on another topic you should read. Without refreshing my memory allow me to summarize.
Democrats – 47% of registerd voters.
Republican – 42% of registered voters.
Tea Party – 250,000 (me rounding from memory) by their own published data accounting of the entities for which I generously give them somewhere equal to the Constitution Party of 500+ thousand. I posted a link to their data chart somewhere very recently on another topic post.
So, when you combine the main body of the GOP with the Dems, the Independents, the Libertarians, the Greenies and the whacko’s….the Tea party is a very minute representation of the whole….much less the GOP itself.
Had the Tea Party remained true to their origns they ‘may’ well have become a respected and growing body…but they chose to be led away. Now, they’ve evolved in to their own brand of Alinskyites.
Regardless, and in spite of any polling, the Tea party does NOT represent the nations majority on major core social and political issues.
As to your citation of states. Enjoy the short party! As I said, the Tea Party doesn’t represent the nations majority on ‘core’ social and political issues. They’ve ram rodded their social issues to deep and to fast in many of those states and they’ll pay later if not sooner for that. The majority don’t take kindly to a political party of any stripes messing with their jobs, their incomes, their benefits and legally established individual rights.
Dream on. You sound like every other leftist, fantasizing about the demise of the Tea Party. And where you got those silly numbers about how many Tea Partiers there are– that must be from Daily Kos.
The Tea Party is the conscience of this country. It is a 100% grass roots uprising that has stopped the left from destroying the country.
You can rant and dream and fantasize all you want, but all of the respected polls have shown an appreciable % of Americans are at least generally supportive of the Tea Party. It is not a majority, but it is significant, and nobody cares much if you want to admit it or not.
You have not made one coherent argument against the Tea Party. You offer nothing substantive– just empty attacks.
Your rant is more of the same politcal fed rhetoric. Call me a liberal, a socialist, a progressive or a moron…I could care less!
The Tea Party data came from the Tea Party Nation who surveyed the major organizations incapsulating the Tea party movement around the nation. I posted the data and the link to the chart on another very recent posting elsewhere on PJM. I virtually doubled their data giving benefit of the doubt to the Tea party. I have served this country in uniform for 32 years from 1946 and the Republican Party since 1951. Your arrogant and dissprespectful personality and perspective is irrelevant to me! The local community Tea Party has closed shop and three more in other communites not far away are in the process of shutting down here in the deep South…..and its a good few months to election!
Good luck with your winning the hearts and souls of a majority of anybody or any Party. If you’re Tea Party is so big and got the absoulute answers a majority of the nation is clammering for go form a ‘LEGAL’ Tea Party and run your own candidates against the democrats and the GOP. I’m bettin none of you have the hanging brass to do that! What say you, beside all the talking point fed you?
Thomas.
I think you are commenting on some left wing charactization of the Tea Party, rather than what they actually represent. The tipoff is when you talk about extreme social issues. Every actual Tea party platform I have seen has had a libertarian bent, and has been mostly neutral on social issues, like gays and abortion. Some Tea Party endorsed candidates have been both social and fiscal conservatives, but the Tea Party endorsed them because of their fiscal views, not their social conservatism. In fact there have been sme pretty heated arguments between social conservatives, and Tea Partiers, that the Tea Party is not conservative enough on social issues, and too libertarian. The main Tea Party concerns have been cutting spending, balancing the budget, cutting gov regulation, repeal of Obamacare, stopping tax hikes, and bringing gov power back to constitutional limits, all issues where conservtives, libertarians, and most independents, agree. I think a majority of Americans agree with those positions. They definitely did in the 2010 landslide.
I think the Tea Party has been a very positive force in advancing spending restraint as far as they have, although in my other post I do say that they may need to compromise at least some, like on the Boehner plan, to solidify their gains.
One other thing. Neither repubs nor dems are a majority. But I beleive once you combine libertarians with repubs, as the Tea Party does, you do have a majority, as was demonstrated in 2010. That is the very reason why dems are so scared of the Tea Party, they know they represent a majority, and can win. The only way the Tea Party will lose their majority is if they overeach and can’t competently govern, as the dems did in 2009, or they split up and lose the libertarian part of the cooalition, with bad fiscal policy, as the Bush repubs did. But as long as they remain both unified and sensible, big spending dems are headed for trouble.
Richard…thanks for a mature response!
["Every actual Tea party platform I have seen has had a libertarian bent, and has been mostly neutral on social issues, like gays and abortion."
You make a signficant point! Neither the GOP or especially, the Tea party have even a remote philosophical kinship with who the libertarian/Anarchists folks really are. For example to find out who the "liberals"; soccialist progressive are you have to study the platforms and historical history of the Socialist Internation Party....the worldwide organization of social democratic, socialist and labour parties. Likewise, to find out who the Libertarians realy are you have to follow the history of the anrchists. They both are constantly evolving with rebrand after rebrand, though the platforms of the socialist-progressives stay rather constistant.
The only thing that serves as an alliance of [convenience] between the libertarians and the GOP is their (Libertarians) rebranding as anti ‘big’ government, taxes, and excessive government regulations. In fact, their true ideological platform is NO government, NO taxes of any kinds and NO government regulations. Other than that, they mostly align with the socialist progressives on the military and military incursions around the world. Actually if one has studdy them long they know that their true division is the definitions of Utopia. The founding of America and its guiding political and eocnomic principles are a hybrid of the two…government latitudes and individual freedoms. But for America the world would be faced with three opposing social and politcal ideologies….some form of Marxism/Communism, Anarchy and Theocracies.
I’m firmly of the opinion that each of the social and political ideologies in America should run for political office through their own official parties. Otherwise the two traditional parties and their ideologies of modern times become corrupted and diluted. This is the reason the GOP of more recent times has become a party of no consensus and wandering platform…the former religious right/Christian Coalition, the Libertarians and now the reconstituted and revolutionized Chrisitian Coalition calling themselves the Tea party.
In the states where they have allignment government in power, their majority agendas are social issues….80 + social issues bills thus far in those states.
The economy is in the tank, jobs are in the tank, budgets and debt are recklessly out of control and a corrupted and divided GOP with three distinctly different ideological agendas being fought over for dominant control. The democrat House sits now, post 2010, a completly unified socialt-progressive body, with not a single moderate democrat left to help assist the TeaParty-GOP advance bipartisan legislation. The Tea party, 2010 election cycles, took out every last democrat moderate, leaving seated every single socialist-progressive. The Senate is in the very same jeopardy with very fewer less moderates than the House ratio, should the Tea party prevail in a simple majority win of the Senate in 2012 anf the House stays essentially the same. Talk about a dysfuntional government! The Senate democrat will simply do what the minority GOP did to them. Most everything will require 60 votes. Then what?
Come now Marc! The Tea Part GOP is NOT the majority party of the goverment! They are only a mjority in the House of Representatives.
Yeah, and how did that senate vote go last election?
The only thing that saved the asses of democratic senators is the fact that so few of them were up for re-election.
I posted data on another topic you should read. Without refreshing my memory allow me to summarize.
Democrats – 47% of registerd voters.
Republican – 42% of registered voters.
Twice as many Americans self-identify as “conservative” as do “liberal/progressive”. That’s not good news for democrats. Especially now that they can’t afford to throw money at people who are addicted to entitlement programs, anymore.
I hope you use a guide dog to get around with….maybe not as it appears you’ve bumped your lobnes a few to many times.
Of your unpublished data, how many of those are social conservative vs. fiscal conservative? Guessing you haven’t a clue how many registered democrats those numbers also represent….and they most certain would NOT entertain joining up with any Tea Party folks as they’ve evolved to reveal themselves currently.
To many of you Tea party folks suffer from the same mentality and personality defects of the radical anti establishment of the 60′s or the turf gangs of today….except sorely short on having their hanging brass. To many have become the perfect disiciples of Alinsky strategies. To many of you are led minons, void of the capcities to think and reason logicall or factual for yourselves. You don’t have a shred of comprehensive platforms or plans for problem solving but looooonnnnng on fed political rhetoric. I would go on but you’ve proved you haven’t the capacity to independently reason any of those things.
I think Boehner is the only grownup in this whole process, and a brilliant but honest negociator. He is the only one who has ever made any scorable detailed proposals that actually have a chance to pass both houses, and the only one that is still somewhat respected and trusted by both the senate dems and the house Tea partiers. I applaud the Tea Party for pushing things as far as they have. They are right on substance, and have gotten most dems to give up on tax hikes, accept equal spending cuts for every debt hike, and give up on a deal having to go through 2013. But there finally comes a time to take what it is actually possible to get. The Boehner bill gets us by the aug 2 deadline, avoids a crisis, and without actually compromising any Tea Party values. It does not get them everything they want yet, but it preserves all their options to still get it later. And if the Boehner Bill passes, it puts the onus clearly on the dems for any failure, since the house would have done their job, and done it fairly, in a manner that the dems have no right to reject, unless it is they who actually want a default.
I expect that with the deadline ooming, the Boehner will pass the senate mostly, if not completely, intact, and Obama will have no choice but to sign it. The house will wind up looking like leaders, the senate reasonable followers, and Obama like the out of touch posturing boob that he is. Unfortunately, if the Tea Partiers are too intransigent, and blow it, then after a default, and bond downgrade, Obama will be able to blame any coming economic bad news on them, and the country will beleive him, however unfair that is.
I get the feeling that Boehner can’t wait to make a deal that the Dems will like. Most of what nhe has proposed is business as usual, smoke and mirrors type things. His trillion dollar spending cut over 10 years only has 7-22 billion in cuts the first year. Maybe he is late for his tanning appointment.