Comments on: The Documents That Bind Americans Together http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/ Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:49:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Nick http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-443960 Nick Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:15:14 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-443960 You are an embarrassment to the historical profession. You are an embarrassment to the historical profession.

]]> By: Dwight http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-436417 Dwight Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:48:51 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-436417 Can you tell that the H key tends not to fire on my computer? Let's try that next to last paragraph again: The Massachusetts version of Romney could do something like that in a national election, but the righties are unlikely to let him get the nomination. He has probably blown his chance, but if he could be reborn one more time and sell it to the center. There might be a third party opportunity there; unlikely? very, but not impossible. Can you tell that the H key tends not to fire on my computer?

Let’s try that next to last paragraph again:

The Massachusetts version of Romney could do something like that in a national election, but the righties are unlikely to let him get the nomination. He has probably blown his chance, but if he could be reborn one more time and sell it to the center. There might be a third party opportunity there; unlikely? very, but not impossible.

]]> By: Dwight http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-436415 Dwight Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:42:57 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-436415 I'm not sure that a third party would help for this (unless one party were to essentiall fall apart like the Federalists and Whigs did and something new forms. Bare knuckle politics and checks and balances have so much been a part of our culture for so long (think Jefferson and Adams), but talk radio, cable tv, and the internet have taken the bare knuckles to a level of mania. You know the people who just cannot shut up? Someone once compared the kind of anxiety produced by bad news on tv (and I would add talk radio) to the warning cries of a gaggle of geese over and over and over and... Talk radio is actually a little more sophisticated than that, believe it or not, but it pushes the Limbaughs etc toward the extreme, rather than the center. The extremes make for better entertainmnent, better ratings. Obama talked as if he could find or create a civilized center, but unless he can work on the line "our friends on Fox news have some legitimate concerns and here is how we will address them..." and say it somewhat convincingly, he won't be able to get to that place. McCain would also have had a shot at it, as I don't think the left would be quite as nuts about his winning as the right is about Obama, but that's irrelevant now. The Massachusetts version of Romney could do something like that in a national election, but the righties are unlikely to let him get the nomination. He has probably blown his chance, although, but if he could be reborn one more time and sell it to the center. Tere migt be a tird party opportunity tere; unlikely, very, but not impossible. Pawlenty maybe? I’m not sure that a third party would help for this (unless one party were to essentiall fall apart like the Federalists and Whigs did and something new forms. Bare knuckle politics and checks and balances have so much been a part of our culture for so long (think Jefferson and Adams), but talk radio, cable tv, and the internet have taken the bare knuckles to a level of mania. You know the people who just cannot shut up? Someone once compared the kind of anxiety produced by bad news on tv (and I would add talk radio) to the warning cries of a gaggle of geese over and over and over and… Talk radio is actually a little more sophisticated than that, believe it or not, but it pushes the Limbaughs etc toward the extreme, rather than the center. The extremes make for better entertainmnent, better ratings.

Obama talked as if he could find or create a civilized center, but unless he can work on the line “our friends on Fox news have some legitimate concerns and here is how we will address them…” and say it somewhat convincingly, he won’t be able to get to that place. McCain would also have had a shot at it, as I don’t think the left would be quite as nuts about his winning as the right is about Obama, but that’s irrelevant now.

The Massachusetts version of Romney could do something like that in a national election, but the righties are unlikely to let him get the nomination. He has probably blown his chance, although, but if he could be reborn one more time and sell it to the center. Tere migt be a tird party opportunity tere; unlikely, very, but not impossible.

Pawlenty maybe?

]]> By: Mr. Independant http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-436258 Mr. Independant Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:33:28 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-436258 Dwight, Excellent post. To bad there isn't a 3rd party that realizes public works are more important than politics. Maybe things will change soon. Any thoughts? Dwight,

Excellent post. To bad there isn’t a 3rd party that realizes public works are more important than politics. Maybe things will change soon. Any thoughts?

]]> By: mttopforge http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-436219 mttopforge Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:31:03 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-436219 You Sir get right to the heart of the matter. Right on! As a ground pounding working stiff it is heartning to see journalism that discards the symptoms and perscribes medicine for the ailment. Those founding principles of liberty are the root of us our country and the guiding morals for a good way of life. Self determination is the true bearer of prosperity. Thank you for your thoughful and heart felt words. It is truely appreciated from a patriot who is grateful for being born to and who lives in this wonderful place called The United States of America. God bless you! You Sir get right to the heart of the matter.
Right on!
As a ground pounding working stiff it is heartning to see journalism that discards the symptoms and perscribes medicine for the ailment.
Those founding principles of liberty are the root of us our country and the guiding morals for a good way of life. Self determination is the true bearer of prosperity.

Thank you for your thoughful and heart felt words.
It is truely appreciated from a patriot who is grateful for being born to and who lives in this wonderful place called The United States of America.

God bless you!

]]> By: Dwight http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-436185 Dwight Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:35:03 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-436185 Recently, when either party loses an election, they get so damned dramatic about it that when the winner comes in and does more or less what we would expect a winner from that party to do, the other side goes nuts with "this is fascism; this is communism, the republic will fall, blah, bla, blah. GWB faced 9/11 and Obama faces the Pearl Harbor of economic crises; both reacted a certain way, which we might have expected, given their track records. Immediately, the other side's PR arms go into overdrive, throwing red meat to the yahoo bases on the left or right about how the current President is only one click short of Hitler or Stalin. It is really stupid, but given the overwraught nature of both bases these days, it more or less works, and the result is that any discussion of what we should actually do, is subjugated to getting the current monster out of office. How can either side be so dramatic about either Bush or Obama and their wretchedness? Can reasonable people actually believe this stuff, or do we just go for dramatic titillation, because otherwise politics would bore us? Recently, when either party loses an election, they get so damned dramatic about it that when the winner comes in and does more or less what we would expect a winner from that party to do, the other side goes nuts with “this is fascism; this is communism, the republic will fall, blah, bla, blah. GWB faced 9/11 and Obama faces the Pearl Harbor of economic crises; both reacted a certain way, which we might have expected, given their track records. Immediately, the other side’s PR arms go into overdrive, throwing red meat to the yahoo bases on the left or right about how the current President is only one click short of Hitler or Stalin. It is really stupid, but given the overwraught nature of both bases these days, it more or less works, and the result is that any discussion of what we should actually do, is subjugated to getting the current monster out of office. How can either side be so dramatic about either Bush or Obama and their wretchedness? Can reasonable people actually believe this stuff, or do we just go for dramatic titillation, because otherwise politics would bore us?

]]> By: Mr. Indpendant http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-436099 Mr. Indpendant Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:13:49 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-436099 Marc Malone, OK, I’m confused by your statements. First you acknowledge that being anti-REB is not anti-American but then you state “being anti-American always means you’re anti-Repub”. You’re contradicting yourself. How about we just stick with your first statement, being anti-REB is NOT anti-American. On your second point, yes in the aftermath of the Civil War it was the Republican Party that were the ‘radical progressives’. Those days are long gone. Since that time (with the exception of Teddy Roosevelt) the REBs have consistently been against the civil rights movement. Your third point is false as well. In the aftermath of the passage of the Civil Rights Act it was the ‘Dixiecrats’ that left the DEMs to become REBs. On your final point, I did what you suggested and went to the DNC website: http://www.democrats.org/agenda.html . On their agenda section I didn’t see any evidence of the things you suggested (except on issued of taxation). Tell me, what is this so called ‘truth’ you’re referring to? Marc Malone,

OK, I’m confused by your statements. First you acknowledge that being anti-REB is not anti-American but then you state “being anti-American always means you’re anti-Repub”. You’re contradicting yourself. How about we just stick with your first statement, being anti-REB is NOT anti-American.

On your second point, yes in the aftermath of the Civil War it was the Republican Party that were the ‘radical progressives’. Those days are long gone. Since that time (with the exception of Teddy Roosevelt) the REBs have consistently been against the civil rights movement.

Your third point is false as well. In the aftermath of the passage of the Civil Rights Act it was the ‘Dixiecrats’ that left the DEMs to become REBs.

On your final point, I did what you suggested and went to the DNC website: http://www.democrats.org/agenda.html . On their agenda section I didn’t see any evidence of the things you suggested (except on issued of taxation). Tell me, what is this so called ‘truth’ you’re referring to?

]]> By: Elliot http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-436089 Elliot Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:56:44 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-436089 Dwight, I wouldn't presume to assign ulterior motivations into Hawkins' piece at all because I am left with another sense altogether-one of being reminded of what could be lost in this present political fight. That loss of a state of mind that brought an overall view or understanding of well-being to a vast and diverse set of people. That understanding was the freedom of individuality-the liberty to make choices on our own, even to risk failure. Our relatively short, shared experiences as American citizens have put us through trials and times of angst as serious and significant as those we face currently. Yet the American people never felt the need to tear our moorings down to bare bones and restart a nation on ideals founded in other/unlike experiences. This nation, and its people, recovered each time and grew stronger. Whether folks will admit it or not, this freedom has been the envy of the world all over. Yes, this faction or that will moan and b*itch from time to time but not many really try to escape oppression here. The idea of being forced by legislation to exchange those freedoms, that feeling of well-being, for one of being imposed on by governing stranger-officials to give yourself to the service of "good works" is, frankly, uninspiring. Clerics have filled that role in the past, they had a "calling" to do so. Not everyone can fulfill that role or has been called. Therefore, a vast majority will be enslaved by someone else's ideal. The thought of working long hours and devoting periods of time in innovative thinking will be the end to motivation for many among us-the real true dullness of hope and change. Hawkins wants to preserve/conserve what greatness we enjoyed in our liberties(imho). Me too. Dwight, I wouldn’t presume to assign ulterior motivations into Hawkins’ piece at all because I am left with another sense altogether-one of being reminded of what could be lost in this present political fight. That loss of a state of mind that brought an overall view or understanding of well-being to a vast and diverse set of people. That understanding was the freedom of individuality-the liberty to make choices on our own, even to risk failure.

Our relatively short, shared experiences as American citizens have put us through trials and times of angst as serious and significant as those we face currently. Yet the American people never felt the need to tear our moorings down to bare bones and restart a nation on ideals founded in other/unlike experiences. This nation, and its people, recovered each time and grew stronger. Whether folks will admit it or not, this freedom has been the envy of the world all over. Yes, this faction or that will moan and b*itch from time to time but not many really try to escape oppression here.

The idea of being forced by legislation to exchange those freedoms, that feeling of well-being, for one of being imposed on by governing stranger-officials to give yourself to the service of “good works” is, frankly, uninspiring. Clerics have filled that role in the past, they had a “calling” to do so. Not everyone can fulfill that role or has been called. Therefore, a vast majority will be enslaved by someone else’s ideal. The thought of working long hours and devoting periods of time in innovative thinking will be the end to motivation for many among us-the real true dullness of hope and change.

Hawkins wants to preserve/conserve what greatness we enjoyed in our liberties(imho). Me too.

]]> By: Carmen http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-436086 Carmen Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:47:03 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-436086 Interesting posts on this, but I disagree with some that say Hawkins' purpose here is to gore one side or another. Throughout the article it seemed to me that he was saying we have common ground, but we've lost and need to recover. That ground is a love for freedom. Interesting posts on this, but I disagree with some that say Hawkins’ purpose here is to gore one side or another. Throughout the article it seemed to me that he was saying we have common ground, but we’ve lost and need to recover. That ground is a love for freedom.

]]> By: Elliot http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-documents-that-bind-americans-together/#comment-436014 Elliot Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:55:40 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=70423#comment-436014 Westerncanadian, thank you for doing my homework for me. I have found Thomas Paine to be a real pain in that he confuses me with what appear to be contradictions. Westerncanadian, thank you for doing my homework for me. I have found Thomas Paine to be a real pain in that he confuses me with what appear to be contradictions.

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