The Dirty Little Secret About the ‘Palestinians’
The establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, the Nakba (catastrophe) for Arabs, and the aggression by five well-armed Arab countries, assisting local Arab gangs and militias who had been attacking Jews for years, placed Jews in Israel and the state in mortal danger.
Fighting back, Israel eventually negotiated an armistice in 1949 that allowed it respite from open war, albeit not terrorism, and without peace. The Egyptians occupied the Gaza Strip; the Jordanians occupied Judea, Samaria, and the eastern part of Jerusalem, including the Old City and Temple Mount; Syria continued to occupy the Golan Heights, from which it constantly shelled Israeli settlements; all trained and supplied terrorists who raided Israel. The UN did nothing.
Arabs who left homes and property in Israel, and many from other countries who joined Arab armies and did not want to return, remained in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan, most as “refugees” under the care of UNRWA.
This heterogeneous population was called “Arab refugees,” not “Palestinians,” because at the time there was no such group or people.
One reason they were called “Arab refugees” was that there were a lot of other refugees in Palestine who were Jewish. Hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees from Arab countries streamed into Israel. UNRWA offered no aid, although Jewish refugees had lost everything and the newly established state had few resources.
It took a crafty Egyptian, Yasser Arafat, to create the PLO with his friends to promote the destruction of Israel and the return of Arab refugees. Arab countries saw them as convenient proxies in their war against Israel, to “liberate Palestine.”
Except for Jordan, no Arab host country permitted the newcomers to obtain citizenship; as temporary residents, their civil and humanitarian rights were harshly restricted.
The designation “Palestinian” did not become widely accepted until after the war in 1967, in which Israel, in self-defense, captured areas that had been assigned to a Jewish state by the League of Nations and Mandate, and then occupied by Arab countries: Judea, Samaria, and eastern Jerusalem; the Gaza Strip and Golan Heights, rich in Jewish history and archeology; and the Sinai Peninsula.
As the PLO launched mega-terrorist attacks around the world, “Palestinianism” became accepted, backed by the Arab League, Muslim and “non-aligned” countries, and the United Nations.
History is being re-written before our very eyes, not based on facts & historical documentation & objective analysis, but on mythology & propaganda. No one denies that there were Arab inhabitants of the region – but this was a small population, primarily Christian, nomadic Bedouin, & many Turks. Most of what are today called ”Palestinian” are descended from Arab immigrants from Syria, Egypt, & elsewhere who began migrating to the area after 1880 because of increased economic opportunities created by Jewish immigrants. Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority since the 1860′s.
Strangely, when Egypt illegally seized Gaza, no one called it ”occupation” & when Jordan illegally seized the West Bank, there was no talk about ”occupation” nor the creation of a Palestinian state. For all intents & purposes, Jordan is the Palestinian state, the creation of a bungled British colonial policy.
This is one of the great clever defenses of Israeli policy which has been thrown around the last few years: the idea that various dark forces “created” the Palestinians. They were just Arabs, no different from other Arabs, and somehow that makes it OK to take their homes, throw them out of what was their country, and so forth. The trick, of course, is that the term Israeli is only marginally older: prior to the founding of the State of Israel, they were called Jews.
The difficulty with a problem like the Arab-Israeli dispute is that it’s so screwed up that *everyone* can be to blame, and frankly everyone is. The Israelis aren’t, by any measure, blameless, but the author makes a good point with regards to the refugees. You have to wonder how the Arab world, as wealthy as it is, could have these impoverished refugees, and be as angry about their poverty as it supposedly is, but do nothing themselves in the face of it. The answer, of course, is that they’re being rather cynical, and using the plight of the Palestinians to further their own goals. So the Arab world has its share of villains (and a few extra) and has caused much of the problem. One thing he doesn’t point out: the Arab world is horribly, helplessly corrupt. If, in 1949, the Arab world had been properly run and managed by ethical governments, Israel would have been easily overrun. Instead, the Arab armies were poorly officered, mostly by political appointees chosen for their loyalty to a particular regime or leader, and they were very incompetent at fighting.
So both Israel and Palestine are modern constructions. Does this mean that either of the groups of people involved have less of a right to the land they’re standing on? Of course not. Jews (at least some) have been in Israel for thousands of years; so have Arabs. The problem isn’t that each side thinks it owns the land, exactly; instead, it’s that each side thinks it can’t live with the other in charge. In this sense, anyway, the Israelis would seem to have a stronger case: living in an Arab country as a religious minority is typically pretty onerous. And of course Israel does have one other thing on its side: its army won all the wars it fought, and hasn’t fought in 35 years because everyone knows it won’t be defeated if it does fight again.
I have no real problem with Israel’s right to exist, but that doesn’t mean it should be supported with specious arguments like this one. Whether you call them Arabs or Palestinians or Swedes doesn’t matter. The fact is a lot of these people were living in what’s now Israel before the founding of that State, and many of them can’t go home now, and never could. Saying that they’re not a distinct “people” in an attempt to…I don’t know, make them irrelevant?…isn’t really a legitimate debating tactic.
Moshe some of us have know this for years but the Mohammedans and the corrupt Oil money which has poured from them into the coffers of Left wing PC MC moonbat Islamophile antisemitic Politicians and Universities staffed by these same let wing,Islamophile , antisemitic, Jew Hating Professors who have churned out brainwashed left wing students since the 60′s have managed to fool the uneducated moronic masses of the West into believing the LIE of Palestine.
Another big helping of sophistry. Does this load of B.S. ever get old?
I don’t care what you call the people who lived in palestine before the declaration of israel, or their descendants. Call them arab israelis, palestinians, arabs, egyptians, whatever. It really doesn’t make a big pile of practical difference to their situation. The bottom line is that they were forced from their homes without compensation. Call the land part of jordan or egypt if you want to (heck, they did), but they were still displaced by people holding guns. They’re now living under a vague legal regime that leaves them in limbo.
You should be careful making comparisons with the holocaust – someone might point out the other half of the story. I.e. yes, the jews WERE forced from their homes in europe and slaughtered en masse, but we rounded up and executed the people responsible for that, AND israel extracted reparations for it. So by all means apply that same standard to the problem of palestine if you want to, but I doubt it’ll be popular once people have thought it through.
“UNRWA offered no aid, although Jewish refugees had lost everything and the newly established state had few resources.”
The UNRWA didn’t exist until after the war of independence. Israel has collected vast public and private overseas aid and reparations over the last 60 years. Add to that being given a country, and the people who live in israel did reasonably well from the deal. Yes, they had to live through a holocaust – but last I checked, that wasn’t the fault of the arabs.
The behavior of the arab states has been obnoxious. The behavior of the arabs living in palestine has (at times) been equally appalling – and stupid. But that doesn’t excuse israel’s blatant policy of pushing out its borders at the expense of the arabs (whatever you call them). If any other western democracy did what israel does, they’d be ostracized for it.
Israel’s behavior has recently been relatively good. I thought they handled the recent gaza incursion a lot better than the previous lebanon war (which was a fiasco). But they’re still sitting on other people’s land and claiming they have a right to keep it for free. They’re still nibbling away at what borders exist, and ignoring previous legal ownership. They’re not currently behaving like a country that follows the law.
Once the last holocaust survivor is gone, israel will stop being a nation with a mandate – it’ll just be a country that’s got ahead by thievery.
Israel is under attack on practically every front possible, and is even under attack by made up enemies, including the Palestinians. The UN, most so called human rights organizations, international conferences, much of the international media, and at least some of the local Israeli media, universities and college professors, churches and religious leaders, including rabbis, a majority of the dictatorships in the world, and of course, at least some prominent Jews all have found cause to bitterly attack Israel with any lie, half truth, or perverted and twisted fact or half fact they can find. As Moshe Dann points out, there never has been nor is there now a Palestinian People, it is simply a make believe group utilized to play it’s part, along with all the others, to destroy Israel. Indeed, the last thing the Palestinian leadership wants is a state of any kind since that would require them to behave responsibly and reasonably, both locally and abroad, something they as Arabs are congenitally unable to do. The only reason that the Palestinian myth exists is to provide another basis for destroying Israel, and even that would make things even worse for them because in short order the Egyptians, the Syrians, and even the Jordanians would quickly overrun a Palestinian state and annex various parts of the state to the other more powerful and ruthless surrounding Arab states.
The trouble with the writer’s idea is that history did not stop for the Palestinians with the creation of Israel. Where there were no “Palestinians”, now there are, shared experience has created a nationality where there was none.
Israel and even it’s most partisan supporters must accommodate themselves to that fact if they are going to deal effectively with the security problems Israel will face into the coming decades and I hope centuries–continue to face in the sense of continuing to exist.
Iran getting the bomb is just the problem of these recent few years.
Factual, to the point and honest, but you will have to absorb the blows coming your way… How dare you challenge the concoted and fabricated lies of the liberal left, next you will be challenging Global Warming, or as it is now called climate change. Shana Tova from the holy land.
A Christian Palestinian, an older man who was in his early teens and lived near Bethleham at the time of the 1948 war, once told me an interesting thing; according to him many, if not most, of the “Arab refugees” in the UNRWA camps after the war were not refugees as such, but were landless beduoin who saw an opportunity to obtain free food and other goodies. These people traditionally had wandered back and forth in the region, living in tents, herding sheep and goats, and selling their labor at harvest time to local farmers, both Jewish and non-Jewish. The people with land or who lived in towns at the time considered them vagrants and a nuisance, and they really weren’t resident in Israel/Palestine or anywhere else. They just wandered back and forth across the Jordan River. He told me the genuine war refugees had mostly cleared out of the UN camps by 1950-51, moving on with their lives, and the ones left were these beduoin.
I don’t understand the point of this article. For example, there was no American prior to 1776 there abouts. There wasn’t any English until the Normans crossed the channel. There is no solution to this problem because “God is on my side” is the root of the conflict. The solution is good ole fashion genocide. Sorry to say but it work once; reference Moses, then again; reference Roman Jewish wars.
I really hate to write this but:
It doesn’t matter if you are Left Right or Center on this problem because God is the root cause and the Gordian Knot was finally solved using a blade.
Mr. Dann….
Thank you, thank you, thank you for the truth!
Maybe there is an explanation why Herodotus refers to the Palaestina in circa 500 BC..?
Or maps dating back hundreds of years have regions labeled as Palestine?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine ;
Since the Byzantine Period, the Byzantine borders of Palaestina (I and II, also known as Palaestina Prima, “First Palestine”, and Palaestina Secunda, “Second Palestine”), have served as a name for the geographic area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. Under Arab rule, Filastin (or Jund Filastin) was used administratively to refer to what was under the Byzantines Palaestina Secunda (comprising Judaea and Samaria), while Palaestina Prima (comprising the Galilee region) was renamed Urdunn (“Jordan” or Jund al-Urdunn).
Palestine has a very long documented history, it cannot be rewritten because we do not agree with the current situation.
“Palestinians” were created by Arafat, period, for the purpose of evening out the sides between the Israeli Jews and the far more numerous neighboring islamist arabs in the region. Instead of the ACTUAL situation where tiny little enlightened Israel is surrounded by hundreds of millions of intolerant barbaric islamist arabs, Arafat wanted to create an equally small opposition group to Israel with an intentionally crafted arab islamist sob story of a homeless and wanderless desperately impoverished people who are simply trying to fight for the land back from the evil conquering European racist Jews (cue violins). It also helps them to brainwash people around the world into excusing and sympathizing with their unbelievable islamist fanatacism, intolerance, racism and terrorist acts. And Western leftists and much of the worlds population falls for it hook line and sinker like sheep. Arafat and his cohorts are very good propagandists. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had training from the Nazis or Soviets.
And an effective ruse it has been all these years. At the core the Arab world wants Israel dead. This is just another tool.
Roman general Titus renamed Judea, to further punish the Jews, as Syria Palestina after their traditional enemies, the Philistines. Herodotus and old maps have errors of translation. The West Bank is not occupied, it’s disputed territory that Israel would be justified in claiming wholly. The next time the Arabs attack Israel, the Israelis must push all the Arabs out and ignore the UN calls for a ceasefire until the Arabs have been thoroughly whipped and understand there is no future in trying to destroy Israel.
Alright “realists”, suppose you’re right and they are Palistinians. In further reality, they’ve lost several wars that they started. Why is Israel, alone in the history, prevented from keeping what they’ve won? The left is not demanding China return Tibet to Tibetans. At least not seriously. They are not demanding sanctions against China for invading a neighbor that never once threatened or harmed them. And how, when Israel has voluntarily returned land that was won fair and square from those who attacked them, are they the “bad guys” in this scenario. It’s more Orwellian crapola from the left. AND … how the hell does the left line up with fundy Islamists anyway? What’s up with that?
The names change but the land remains the same and historically the Jewish People have lived and thrived in the Middle East. After escaping from slavery in Egypt a people called the Hebrews established a homeland, Israel with the center of their life Jerusalem. Throughout their existence they have endured enemies that want to enslave them, convert them, or if all else fails drive them into the sea. Their names change but their intentions remain the same.
Pretending it all belonged to the “Sea People” ex cetera is a convenient lie so that the Romans and Muslim etc. invaders could wipe the memory of Israel from the history books and our minds. Even when they were practically wiped away from their homeland and scattered throughout the world their enemies still hunted them down and sought their annihilation. That is a fact. Pretending they are the terrorists and the rest of the world it’s helpless victims is a deceit that will no longer stand.
They are a thorn in the side of the caliphate of Islam, another enemy of Israel, different name same intention. Their books call for them to fight the Jews until the end of time. Could it be much clearer? No it could not, yet the world continues to deny and defend the religions of death to Israel.
Facts are stubborn things and changing names does not change history.
Good points, Thomas_L;
Also, if they’re really a nation, the “Palestinians” have demonstrated no ability to govern themselves, maintain law and order in their own society or even feed their own people. They remain dependent on handouts from the UN, America, Europe and Israel itself. The Israelis left them greenhouses, to grow food; they trashed them; they have the vote, and they used it to elect Hamas. They can’t even clean up their own sewage. This isnt’ a nation, it’s a thugocracy, supported by the UN and Americans, who think they’re being noble when they send billions in foreign aid to these guys. The “Palestininans” are parasites.
Whole lot of historical mumbo jumbo here by both the author and the posters that don’t amount to a hill of beans. Cut to the chase all you whining, rationalizing intellectuals and pick a side. Either your for those pathetic palastinian muslims who cheered when there arab bretheren flew airplanes into buildings and your also for Hamas who recruits children and teaches them how to strap bombs around his body and yell Allah is great while blowing up himself and anybody around them. Stop mincing words and who gives a sh-t about what happened 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. Pick a side thats what a fighter does.
15. Thomas_L……:
You’re half-way to a conclusion. It would be entirely consistent with 20th century history to let israel “keep what it’s won”. But to do that, they’d need to recognise the palestinians within that territory as israeli citizens (that’s what everyone else does these days). Even china is willing to extend legal rights to tibetans (well, what few rights chinese have). They’re even willing to go FURTHER than israel, and they’ll allow tibetans some local autonomy, while still recognising them as chinese citizens (I’m not really on-board with the mainstream “free tibet” crowd – I’m not sure things were so great for ordinary tibetans before the chinese invasion).
I personally would be happy to see israel keep the territories it’s won, provided they give full israeli citizenship to the arabs they’ve annexed (including all the rights that entails, and freedom to worship according to conscience, and protection of existing religious monuments), and provided they compensate any arabs they’ve displaced in the process.
That’s what any responsible modern democracy would be required to do. So – back to you.
The problem that all of you guys ultimately face is that a whole pile of arabs are getting screwed. You can’t wish them away, and if you want to magic up a political solution it had better be one that stands up to scrutiny. I have no particular regard for the palestinians – they and their mates have covered themselves in stupid over the last 60 years. But israel still gets to be judged on its actions – and israel’s actions have been (at times) pretty nasty, greedy and self-serving.
When you guys have actually come up with a credible solution with what to do with the remaining arabs, then you’ve got something to say. In the meantime you’re just trying to justify the continuation of a cruddy deal for a bunch of people who mostly had it dumped on them through no fault of their own. And that, from a group of people who regard themselves as the shining example of democracy.
It’s nice to see a more intellectually correct reading of the pallies. The media and schooling in America has failed at that venture, intentionally. Much like the way the “Civil War” is taught here. You never hear of the black slave owners or white slaves. You never hear about the integrated CSA army while you hear about the one segregated unit in the “union”. Propaganda and half truths based on creating an emotionally charged reaction against a particular group of people has become “education” and it is doing a disservice to every one. Ignorance is bliss it is also a great way to manipulate the masses.
Matthew:
You’ve got a very skewed view of the history of the conflict. While Irgun and the Stern Gang did kill and roust some Arabs from their homes, the vast majority were forced out by the Syrian army. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (Haj Amin al-Husseini), who cooperated with the Nazis (he actually lived in Berlin during WWII), called for the Arabs to abandon Palestine.
Although the UN resolution establishing Israel also called for an Arab state, it was rejected; instead five countries surrounding Israel attacked the newly formed country. ALL territory gained by Israel has come through victory after being attacked.
There is much, much more you need to learn, starting with Arab terrorism in the decades prior to WWII, and including how the Arab states treated their Jewish populations. You should review how Jordan behaved during the time they occupied Jerusalem, from 1949 until 1967 when they were expelled. Contrast that with the access Muslims have to their holy places in Israel.
I like the line: ‘The UN did nothing.’
Let me give that a try. ‘The sky is blue.’ ‘Bananas are a fruit.’ ‘Peanut butter’s main ingredient is peanuts.’
In regards to the Gaza occupied area, I’m in accord with #17 BettyBlue.
Secondly, Arafat ‘cared’ so much for his cause he gave much of his wealth to his ‘people’ right?
No, Arafat horded his wealth and died a billionaire. As well as receiving the Nobel. Unbelievable..
what to do with the rest of the Arabs?hmmm how about Jordan and Syria give the ones who are born in Jordan and Syria citizenship. that way they won’t be citizens without a country. they are third generation homeless? but they live in a town? we whine about anchor babies but the next generation kids are American. i bet 100 years from now they will still be country less.
Mr. Dan: Thank you so much. So clearly stated. No all westerners believe the garbage put forth in the media and the international community and especially from arab countries. The truth is not always easy to hear for a lot of people who wish to rewrite history as the truth, as in several of those whose comments are posted here. Thank you and please keep writing.
There’s plenty of room in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Jordan, and Syria to house the Philistines, er, “Palestinians.” So, where are their rich, loving Arab brothers? Using them as a tool to harass the Israelis. Letting them live in filth and squalor.
Reminds me of how Obambi treats his brother . . . remember him, the one in Kenya, lives in a cardboard box?
I have been always been a support of the the Israeli people. I remember visiting there many, many years ago and enjoyed the kindness of the israeli people and the palestinian people that I met while there. However, even then people with any reasonable intelligence knew that the place was just the epicenter of the middle east tsunami. The Israeli/s treat the Arabs really bad and the the Arabs blow themselves and innocent people up.The end to the horrible circle will most likely, never end, unless there is an act of (one of their) God. I feel bad for them and all their hatred has infected.
Matthew, take a look at a map of the Middle-East. Then, take a look at Israel. It’s barely visible, among the surrounding Moslem nations. Why can’t the Palestinians go and live in one of those nations, among their own people, who follow Islam and are supposedly their “brothers?” All of them are bigger than Israel, and some are rich, with oil, and could more than afford to house, feed and train the Palestinians to perform actual jobs.
On the other hand, the Palestinians could try to get along with the Israelis, refrain from firing rockets at them, murdering Israeli citizens and sending in Homicide bombers. Maybe if they stopped doing that (I know it’s hard for them to resist, poor dears) the Israelis might be more disposed to get along with them.
both these scenarios seem quite “viable” to me. (Well, maybe not the second one; the Palestinians seem incapable of getting along with anybody, even each other.)
Matthew, why don’t you use your muslim name?
Moshe, thanks for making the case for calling Palestinians by their proper name, South Syrian Arabs.
So, why not describe who was living in the neighbourhood before the British lowered the Union Jack, ending the UN mandate. There were South Syrian Arabs, Jews, Christians, Druze, Beduin, and anyone else whom I have temporarily forgotten.
For the biggest weapon the deformed souls use is, the State of Israel can only be dated to 1948. As long as Jewish history is denied by those deformed souls, they will continue to put more energy in targeting those who are different, rather than learning from them
why they have made more with their time since, say, the fall of Constantinople in the 1400′s.
If a prosperous and free Arab society had existed in 1948, the palestinian abstraction may have been a mere rethorical projectile of limited shelf life, instead of such a durable concoction. Over time, against seemingly perennial expectations as stale as the “palestine” concept itself, some arab lands may in fact learn to become free and prosperous after all, and some future flesh-and-blood youth of the ficticious palestine may prefer to settle into something more, shall we say, real?
The fatalistic palestinian obsession is yet one more manifestation of the chronic failure of Arab societies to evolve into free nations so far. If the arabs learn to lift themselves into the orbit of responsible governance, probably under the leadership of a transformed Iraq, the “urgency” of Israel’s ultimate and final destruction may come down the priority chain, one notch at a time, and the overgrown red herring may yet turn into a beached whale, and eventually stink too much.
In the meantime, it is still fashionable to deny the real source of the stench, and even the US president embraces the popular affectation of pinching one’s nose over Israel. Some leader!
Moshe; You are just trying to distort history for the uneducated, misinformed masses.
I hope you succeed.
David N and Matthew – thanks for your excellent posts and analysis.
With regard to the notion that ‘unless you were a nation or singular ethnic group in ancient times’, then you have no right to be a nation in modern times – that’s an invalid argument. It would obviously nullify the right to exist of such nations as America, Canada, Brazil, Austrlia and so on.
The fact is, Israel was forged within a territory with an indigeneous people – who were called, long before the formation of Israel – Palestinians. As others have pointed out, the name is irrelevant. What is of concern is that they had been living there for centuries – and Israel did not want them to continue to live there – both because it wanted the land, and because it did not want them as citizens.
This is the situation with the W. Bank, which Israel has occupied for a generation. Why not simply annex it as conquered territory? Israel won’t do this because this would mean that the arab inhabitants would have to be Israeli citizens..and this is not an option for Israel for their population numbers would change the Jewish identity of Israel.
So..instead, Israel continues to occupy the W. Bank, settles it illegally..all the while giving ‘lip service’ to the notion of a Palestinian state. But how can there be such a state if Israel is settling the land? Israel wants the land, the important water resources..without the current inhabitants. So, it makes life very difficult for the Palestinians, who are denied water to irrigate farms (the settlers have full access to irrigation); aren’t allowed on the roads, can’t access markets and so on. And turning a blind eye to the settler violence against the Palestinians in the W. Bank. The hope is obviously to drive them economically away.
Gaza? Israel isn’t interested in it. The greenhouse economy left behind was destroyed by Israel’s shutting off the water and hydro..and closing the border to the produce.
The other Arab nations? They don’t give a hoot for the Palestinians. Westerners frequently err in thinking that ‘an arab is an arab’. That is untrue. There are deep, ancient tribal hierarchies among Arabs, and Palestinians occupy one of the lowest levels. Furthermore, the tribal dictatorships of the Arab states certainly wouldn’t want a democratic state of Palestine in their midst..as an example to their own repressed populations.
What should Israel have done? Instead of attempting to economically and culturally deplete the Palestinians, and hoping they would disappear in the night..to other Arab lands which don’t want them..they ought to have enabled a democratic Palestine, with its own land base and its economy embedded within that of Israel. Such a collaboration, of an Arab and Jewish state, both democracies, economically engaged, would have been a formidable opposition to the tribal dictatorships of the Arab (and Persian) Middle East.
“”"”" I don’t understand the point of this article. For example, there was no American prior to 1776 there abouts. There wasn’t any English until the Normans crossed the channel. There is no solution to this problem because “God is on my side” is the root of the conflict. The solution is good ole fashion genocide. Sorry to say but it work once; reference Moses, then again; reference Roman Jewish wars. “”"”"
Uhhhh . . . .WHAT? There were indeed ‘Americans’ prior to 1776. The colonists, while at one level they considered themselves ‘Englishmen’ for the purpose of defining their rights as such, became ‘American’ as a result of the outcome of the French and Indian war. Besides, large colonies of Germans and Scotch-Irish meant that the appellation ‘Englishman’ was losing its appeal. As for England and the Normans, the Anglo-Saxons were the English by 1066 — for one thing, they spoke ‘Old English,’ which survived the ‘French’ (the Normans were transplanted Danes) invasion by never fully assimilating the Norman ‘Frenchness.’
I fail to understand why certain obvious facts are so difficult for people to understand, unless they are blinded by ideology.
First, In no way will I say that Israel, or any other country that’s ever existed for that matter, is perfect. At times thruout its brief history–such as after the Six-Day War in 1967, some Israelis have treated indigneous Arabs with indefensible and disreputable disrespect. But the difference between a true democratic society and a dictatorship is that democracies inherently contain the seeds of self-correction.
In other words, when they’ve done something wrong to others, people feel ashamed and urge their representatives to find ways to make up for the wrong.
Now in modern-day Israel, Jew-hating/killing Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza come to Israeli hospitals to get free and life saving medical care. And of course as citizens of Israel, all Arab Israelis are entitled to free medical care. Could one even imagine the reverse happening—Israel Jews coming to Arab hospitals in the Palestinian territories or any of the 26 Arab countries. The sad fact is that they’d probably get lynched, their bodies horribly mutiliated, & die a very painful death.
Since the supposed Oslo peacemaking process began in the ’90s, there has come to be an overwhelming consensus in Israel–regardless of one’s political affiliation–that the Paletinians should have their own state in the West Bank and Gaza.
On multiple occasions, Israeli politicians from both the Left and Right have offered previously unthinkable compromises to Palestinians as well as to Syria (regarding abandoning the Golan Heights). The sharing/internationalization of Jerusalem has been offered, as well as 90% to 97% of the West Bank, with additional land transfers from Israel proper to make up for whatever small amount of West Bank land would remain in Israeli control Who would have ever thought that Sharon, of all people, would give up all of the Gaza settlements as well as some on the West Bank?
Israel has offered to bring back tens of thousands of Palestinian refugees (who, as even King Hussein of Jordan has said, left Israel mainly because Arab countries sent the word out in 1948 that they’d only have to leave their homes for a short time–once Israel was destroyed, they could quickly return and undoubtedly enjoy all the spoils) into Israel itself, while offering to compensate other refugees for any loss of property.
The clear and undeniable fact is that time and again, Palestinian leaders have completely and utterly rejected all Israeli offers–typically without even offering a counterproposal. That’s because Islamic ideology–as definitively spelled out in the charters of the PLO and Hamas–will NEVER EVER allow for the formation of an Israel state in the Middle East, period.
The only difference between Hamas and the Palestinian authority on the West Bank is that so-called moderate Palestinian leaders such as their current President and Prime Minister will gladly accept Israel’s implicit surrender and ultimate destruction thru a peace treaty that forces Israel to take back ALL of the refugees and ALL of their descendants, so that Israel can no longer be a Jewish nation and those Israelis that’d dare to stay would then be under the tender mercies of their Palestinian Antagonists who’ve been waiting generations to inflict a final Jewish bloodbath in the Holy Land.
Hamas leaders and followers don’t need or even want a faux or pretend peace treaty that isn’t worth the price of paper it’s written on–as Arafat repeatedly showed by breaking agreement after agreement with Israel (i.e., surrender of land for more terror) during the illusionary Oslo peace process. They’re ready to do whatever it takes to complete what the Nazis started and finish the slaughter of Jews–beginning but not ending with Israel Jews–ASAP–with the assistance of their Arab brothers and sisters thruout the Middle East and Europe, and thereby help usher in worldwide Islamic Sharia, in accordance with the commands of the Koran, which are said to have come from Allah himself via His messenger on Earth, the Prophet Mohammed.
Nothing about this is a secret. It’s all there in ancient Arabic texts as well as their articles, speeches, books, etc. It’s why Arab children at mosques and Arab schools all over the world are taught that Jews and Christians are dirty, filthy creatures who must be exterminated at all costs–in return of course, for the murderers having 72 Virgins in Heaven to oneself for all of eternity.
These are the facts and I dare anyone to dispute them.
Matthew: You completely misunderstood a key point in this article – the hundreds of thousands of refugees he’s referring to are those from ARAB COUNTRIES – in addition to those from Europe. The ones who were not victimized by the Nazis, but simply forced to leave their homes by newly hostile Arab governments – 750,000 of them (my dad is one from Morocco and my in-laws are ones from Yemen). That’s approximately the same number of “Palestinians” that were made refugees by the 1948 war. What he’s saying is that the UNRWA helped Arab refugees leaving Israel and did zero for the equal number of Jewish ones arriving in Israel from Syria, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Egypt.
This is what kills me about the debate – people who are completely ignorant of major historical facts seem to think it appropriate for them to form such strong opinions about “the Middle East conflict”!!!!!
Also, Moshe; Jimmy Carter gave the Palestinians credibility by inviting Arafat to the White House.
I wrote about this recently…
http://ronmossad.blogspot.com/2009/04/nakba.html
Even if you grant the Palestinians the legitimacy of existence, it only goes back to the late 1800′s and the perpetrators of their “Nakba” are still…CLEARLY the Arab countries and themselves. All the fighting with Jews is just a side-show and will always be one until these facts are recognized.
I have pondered this points at length and the fact that jumps out at me is that, in her pre-Independence writings, Golda Meir referred casually and without intended irony to her Zionist compatriots as “Palestinians.”
Go read her collected letters. It’s an eye-opener. The conclusion is unavoidable: In British mandate Palestine, the term “Palestinian” carried no specific ethnic, religious or cultural load. It was a neutral geographic descriptor. Meir could not have spoken or written about Jewish immigrants in this way if an Arab people/nation identifying itself as “Palestinians” had already existed. It emphatically did not. After Independence, the Zionist Palestinians changed their identity to “Israelis” — leaving the discarded Palestinian label open to anyone who claimed it. In time, Arafat’s revolutionary army filled the void — and the Palestinian Liberaton Organization was born.
No one ‘threw out the Arabs’ from Isreal. Many are still there and many left after the Saudis told them to leave before the 6 Day War. Then as with all muslim revisionist history, they twisted it to say that the Jews kicked them out and made the Muslims how we see them today.
The muslims did this to themselves and have been working on destroying Israel just because they are told to hate via their koran/mohammed.
By creating the term ‘Palestinian’, it divorced them from the rest of the Arabs and the rest of the Arabs use them as their battering ram against the Jews. They pay them money if their kids die while killing Jews, and they celebrate as if there is a wedding when they die. They are the masters of claiming victimization when they start a war (lobbing bombs into Israel on a daily basis) and our media is stupid enough to believe them because they wail and whine the loudest.
The hate, the revisionist history, is coming from islam, the koran. And what we think of as ‘moderates’ support their jihadists because if they do not they are considered ‘hypocrites’ according to mohammed/koran and they are told they are the same as the kufir (non-muslims). It is why we heard these ‘silent ones’ only after their Jihadists finally were getting their just deserts earlier this year. We never hear them when their jihadists kill non-muslims unless they are cornered. And then they just practice their taqiyya (deception in our lands what they term as dar al harb – the land of war).
By the way – no one forced the Muslims from their homes as some seem to think. That is revisionist history. They were actually told not to leave by the Israelis before the 6 Day War.
And we dump money into the Pals’ pockets so as to help them. yeah, right – help them wage their war against the Jews. maybe people should wake up and realize that this motto ‘First comes Saturday and then comes Sunday’ means that once they wipe out the Jews they are going to come after the Christians. And even while they ‘work on’ the Jews they ‘work on’ the Christians (and Hindus, Buddhists, etc) in so many lands – Africa, Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, India, etc.
Giving our hard earned tax dollars to any muslim nation (Pakistan, the Pals, etc) is a jizya payment of dhimmi (subjugated people) – basically accepting subjugation to them while they try to wipe us out. And why hasn’t Obama or Congress moved us off of Middle Eastern oil? Not a peep about it from the media, or elsewhere – but this oil money is funding them to spread their Jihadists worldwise and even in our lands in the form of a stealth jihad.
They are successfully getting banks to do sharia banking (see http://www.stopsharianow.org) which some of those funds supports terrorism, our kid’s history books have been revised in some, or all, states to tell myths of islam and to make it sound like islam is ‘cool’ while bashing Christianity and Judaism, our colleges have the MSA (muslim student assoc) that are directly tied to the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) – a terrorist organization.
Our politicians are being cajoled by terrorists (CAIR, ISNA, ICNA, MSA, etc) all tools of the MB. And the MB started infiltrating our schools, political organizations, government, etc in the 1960s! We are told that holidays such as EID are ok – while it is nothing but a celebration of their slaughter (beheading all the men, enslaving all the women and children, and taking all their possessions) in one of mohammed’s endless wars that were not waged in self-defense, but ways to get slaves and loot. That was the celebration of all their stuff they got!
The Pals in the Gaza are persecuting the few Christians who do live among them – of course no media picks up on that! They only glom onto the wailing and whining of the muslims. And they are the ones who use children as suicide bombers, train them from pre-kindergarten age to hate, and then celebrate if one succeeds as if there is a wedding. If we knew Islam a bit better we would know that this is their ‘fast path’ to heaven and the parents are so very happy because they think they are going to be named as one of the saved.
I believe that it was the Roman Emperor Hadrian who changed the name of Judea to Palestina in 135 A.D. after defeating the last Jewish uprising under Bar Kochba. He tried to destroy Judaism, making it a capital crime to practice it. He changed the name of Judea and made practicing Judaism illegal in order to forever eradicate any memory of Judea and Judaism. After that, “Palestine” became synonymous with “land of the Jews” or “the Holy Land” (Jesus having been a Jew), and “Palestinian” being synonymous with “Jew.” That is why the Sionists wanted the “Palestine Mandate.”
In Cairo in 1964, the Soviet Union and Nasser founded the “Palestine Liberation Organization.” It is Soviet propaganda that has led to calling Arabs “Palestinians,” with all the phony history that goes with it. Herodotus did write about the Greeks who lived on the west coast of what is now Israel and Lebanon, I believe, and called them “Philistines.” These have nothing to do with what the Roman Emperor Hadrian renamed “Palestina,” though he may have borrowed the name from them. (There were no “Philistines” during the period of Hellenic or Roman rule.)
See Mark Twain on what the Holy Land was like when he traveled there, at the end of the nineteenth century, desolate, sparsely populated. Also Joan Peters’ later work, FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL.
The attacks on the Jews in the land of Israel have been religious, led by the Haj Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem, ally of Adolph Hitler, and continue so. The Soviet involvement, namely, the Communist involvement, comes from the anti-semitism of Russia and then the Soviet Union, as well as politicking for influence among Arab states.
The land of Israel has been called “Eretz Yisrael” since ancient times. The twelve tribes of Israel were the descendants of Jacob who won the name “Israel” – “wrestles with God” after wrestling all night with God.
When later the tribes formed two kingdoms, the northern one with ten tribes was called Israel and the southern one, with the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, was called Judea. After the Assyrians conquered the northern kingdom and forced the ten tribes out, only the southern kingdom was left. The Jews are of the house of Israel, and entitled to call their homeland “Israel.”
wondering:
“Matthew, why don’t you use your muslim name?”
Is that really the best you can come up with?
ETAB:
I don’t see why it’s so important to palestinians that they have an independent state. If anybody listened to me, I’d just have egypt and jordan take over the adjoining territories and be done with it. What should matter is that the people living there have a legitimate form of citizenship, proper laws and a stable government. I can’t see how a palestinian state can ever be more than a basket-case, surviving on outside support. As long as it remains a weak state, lunatics will be able to use it as a launching site for attacks on israel – it’s more or less powerless to prevent that from happening with the resources it currently has to work with. So why not just make it jordan and egypt’s problem? They have proper professional armies and stable goverments, and an annexation would present opportunities for palestinians that they’ll never have otherwise. That would be a much better outcome for israel, too (in my worthless opinion). Nobody wants to live next door to a permanently failed state.
The problem with that solution is that it still means that israel can’t have the land. And I think that’s what this is really all about.
Guys, none of you has addressed the basic problem here. There are people currently living on that land, and you would seem to want them to somehow go away. You don’t want to just come out and say that, so you spend you time explaining why israel is in the right, talk about how these people are really citizens of some other country, point out the history of blame on the part of the arabs (which I agree with) and dodge the issue. All of that is very clever, but it doesn’t explain what you think should be done with a few million arabs who currently live and work on land that somebody else wants to take from them. Israel would dearly love to just claim that land for its own – but it can’t. If it did that, the world would expect it to afford the arabs legal citizenship and protection. And that would be a serious threat to israel’s status as a jewish democracy. You guys seem to think it should be allowed to have what it wants and that’s fine – but some of you need to explain what you think should be done with the arabs. Do you propose that they just be pushed over the border into jordan or egypt? Should there be big gas chambers in the desert? What do you propose? Because until you resolve that problem, then israel has to keep the current legal fiasco, give up on its expansion dream or start engaging in ethnic cleansing on a very large scale.
When you’ve been honest enough to address that problem, then maybe we can talk about why you think the individual arabs who’ve already had their stuff taken from them shouldn’t be compensated for it.
@Matthew
In 1948 over 7 million people were displaced after the creation of Pakistan. At the same time as around 700,000 Arabs were told by the Arab nations to leave Israel as they were “going to drive the Jews into the sea” the Arabs also kicked out around 400,00 Jews from their lands. This in addition to the Christians of these areas who you may have noticed are a little bit thin on the ground there – just like their churches, if you know what I mean. Then there is the issue of 3000 Buddhists slaughtered in Thailand by the “Religion of Peace” to consider, among many others.
So why is it you ONLY want the “Palestinians” to be compensated and if compensation is owed, maybe the families of the 25,000 Arab refugess murdered by the Jordanians(whose Queen claims to be “Palestinian”) during Black September of 1970 could head the queue leading to the oil rich murderous Islamic states where human rights are rarer than hen’s teeth. Israel, the sole Jewish state, and the sole democracy in the ME, belongs to the Jews and is their rightful homeland and they have a bond with this land going back more than 3000 years. That it affords its Arab citizens far more rights than they’d ever receive in the surrounding Islamic hellholes is another fact apologists for the evil of Islam conveniently never mention. Islam is THE problem and that is an honesty few have the guts to address including you.
“So why is it you ONLY want the “Palestinians” to be compensated”
That’s not what I think at all. But this thread is discussing the palestinians – not thailand, or burma, or any of the african FUBARs. It would be a bit weird for me to start shouting here about justice for uighurs or west papuans, don’t you think?
And you’ve almost answered your own question in your second paragraph. As you’ve pointed out, israel IS different to its neighbors. It’s a democracy, and supposed to be founded on the rule of law. If it wants to keep calling itself that, then it has to walk like it talks. If it wants to also behave like its neighbors when it’s convenient, then it becomes just another powerful thug. Democracies are supposed to be the good guys. If we start excusing creepy behavior from our friends, then we stop being the good guys.
As for the “3000 years bond with the land” malarkey – what a crock. Pretty much nobody lives where their alleged ancestors lived, and I don’t believe fairy tales should count as evidence when drawing up borders. I recognize israel because it’s a fact on the ground, and millions of people have made their lives there. If you’re going to start arguing about who was where first, then white americans can pack up their kit and move out right now – give it all back to the indians. Australians can get out too – this country had people in it well before the english arrived. See now why that argument is bogus?
And islam doesn’t have to be a problem. Like it or not, there are muslim democracies. Australia’s got 250 million muslims living paddling distance from our north coast, and I reckon that in the last 15 years (i.e. since they ousted their US-backed dictator), they’ve been doing a pretty good job of reforming themselves as a modern democracy in the face of some impressive challenges.
And as for israel “belonging to the jews” – you’re on thin ice with that statement. What if the arabs have babies at a faster rate than jews? What if jews become a minority? Does israel stop being jewish, does it stop being a democracy, does the state acquire the right to begin ethnic cleansing or should the state adopt a policy of apartheid? Which one do you prefer? It’s unfortunate for your position, but in a proper democracy an arab has the same rights as an ashkenazi jew. To start altering that rule to preserve a national ethnic profile would be regarded in any other country as blatantly racist, and definitely not democratic.
“Malarkey — what a crock,” he sez.
When will we ever hear some outrage over the murderous bloodlust and openly avowed racist, genocidal intent toward Jews in the PLO and Hamas charters, in their prayers, their textbooks for children, and their street mobs’ incessant howls of “Death to the Jews!”? Talk about ethnic cleansing and apartheid! Judenrein, a world “ethnically cleansed of Jews,” is the “Palestinian” vision for a world at peace, and also its rule to preserve a “Palestinian” national ethnic profile. That sort of national ethnic profile would be regarded as blatantly racist and undemocratic in any other country, but in the case of “Palestininan,” good gracious, perish the thought!
You want “malarkey”? The so-called “Palestinian” national identity, that’s malarkey! Read
http://www.think-israel.org/ronen/hadriancurse.html
“But this thread is discussing the palestinians…” and I said the problem was Islam and the others I stated were all about…and I did mention that Jews and Christians have been kicked out of ME countries and you ignore that conveniently. But we’ll keep it to your borders. These “Palestinians” you believe are poor little innocent victims, why don’t you study what they’ve done to Lebanon and the maronite christians, around 100,000 of whom were slaughtered for welcoming these “victims” into their land? What do you think should be done for “compensation” here – if any.
“See now why that argument is bogus?”
That’s kinda the point but you cannot see it. You only attack Israel yet Israel has done no worse than most other nations, in fact I’d argue that they have done much better. You apply one set of rules to Israel and only Israel. You also dismiss the jews’ belief in their homeland as “fairytale” whilst believing in the biggest fairytale of all, that of the “Palestinians”. Your point about demographics is potent, pity you cannot expand on it as regards the spread of Islam and the use of demographics as a weapon of conquest. But you naively believe this conflict is about territory and Israel. It isn’t. It is about Islam, the spread of Islam and sharia law again, an aspect never mentioned.
It is amazing that apologists will be full of vehemence and high morals they demand be applied to Israel but never ever apply the same standards to Islam. It’s funny how you resent my assertion “Israel belongs to the Jews” but having seen jews and christians massacred and expelled from Islamic countries, you don’t seem to have a problem with Islamic countries making the assertion about their lands – “Dar al Islam” belonging to Muslims, which is blatant hypocrisy. And you mention apartheid when under sharia law, non-believers are regarded as inferior to muslims and are oppressed dreadfully, and when it comes to women, their lives are regarded as half that of their menfolk and they too are oppressed, a clear gender apartheid. Yet you whine about racism and ethnic cleansing? It isn’t the Israelis who are guilty of that and it isn’t Israel who is trying to destroy other people. The muslims on the other hand seem to have a habit of slaughtering people who do not share their belief wherever they go. Ignored by Israel haters of course.
So what’s the principle here. Will German Silesians get the right of return to lands they were ethnically cleansed from after the Second World War, mere years prior to the Palestine-Israel situation? Or do white Europeans get a separate set of principles than others?
DavidN writes: “So both Israel and Palestine are modern constructions. Does this mean that either of the groups of people involved have less of a right to the land they’re standing on? Of course not.”
Seems sensible David. You are correct that both groups of people had an equal right to the land they are standing on – in 1947. That is, before the people standing on the land that was to be given Arab sovereignty – attacked those standing on the land that was to become Israel – with the intent to destroy them.
Even so, had the Arabs accepted their defeat in 1949 and endeavored to live peacefully then they could have asked the right to live there as part of a peace treaty and agreement between thee parties. But they did not. Instead they claimed that their abortive war was not over and that they’d continue their efforts until all Jews were either gone from the ME or were living as dhimmi under Arab rule. And since then, they have several times now attacked Israel with that intention, each time from the territory that was to be theirs legally but is now, on the WB in any case, under defensive Israeli occupation, circumscribed by a fence and wall, necessary to keep them from killing Israelis with bombs in their cafes.
In any sane world the people who call themselves Palestinians would have been relocated to Jordan and Egypt (or someplace else even further from Israel) long ago and the WB and Gaza would have been added as necessary defensive additions to the state of Israel – as they should have been in 1948.
But this world is not a sane one and so the killing and bloodshed will continue, encouraged along by clueless individuals like yourself who choose to believe, against all evidence and historic fact, that the people who call themselves Palestinians will happily live in peace with the Jews of Israel as neighbors – if only the right concessions are made to them.
DavidN writes: “So both Israel and Palestine are modern constructions. Does this mean that either of the groups of people involved have less of a right to the land they’re standing on? Of course not.”
Seems sensible David. You are correct that both groups of people had an equal right to the land they are standing on – in 1947. That is, before the people standing on the land that was to be given Arab sovereignty – attacked those standing on the land that was to become Israel – with the intent to destroy them.
Even so, had the Arabs accepted their defeat in 1949 and endeavored to live peacefully then they could have asked the right to live there as part of a peace treaty and agreement between thee parties. But they did not. Instead they claimed that their abortive war was not over and that they’d continue their efforts until all Jews were either gone from the ME or were living as dhimmi under Arab rule. And since then, they have several times now attacked Israel with that intention, each time from the territory that was to be theirs legally but is now, on the WB in any case, under defensive Israeli occupation, circumscribed by a fence and wall, necessary to keep them from killing Israelis with bombs in their cafes.
In any sane world the people who call themselves Palestinians would have been relocated to Jordan and Egypt (or someplace else even further from Israel) long ago and the WB and Gaza would have been added as necessary defensive additions to the state of Israel – as they should have been in 1948.
But this world is not a sane one and so the killing and bloodshed will continue, encouraged along by clueless individuals like yourself who choose to believe, against all evidence and historic fact, that the people who call themselves Palestinians will happily live in peace with the Jews of Israel as neighbors – if only the right concessions are made to them.
I don’t recommend you attack us at all.
If you do
we’ll unleash our secret weapon!
DoubleTapper
DoubleTapper@gmail.com
DoubleTapper, blogging on Guns Politics Defense from Israel
For decades I have been asking who the first Palestinian King was, what city his palace was in and how long did he reign. The Arabs cannot provide an answer. Never have, never will because there never has been a nation called Palestine, isn’t one now and never will be. If Israel vanished tomorrow, the Levant would be fought over between Syria, Jordana and Egypt.
My money is on Egypt. They have a bigger army. Jordan has a better army, but not enough to make up for the numerical difference.
There are two rational measures that Israel must take regarding the Arabs of Judea and Samaria, both of which require that Israel asserts total control over the disputed territories. First, a kind of “denazification” of local Arab society must take place. The Arab media and school curricula will have to be made subject to Israeli oversight. All propaganda and counter-factual teaching must be banished. This is the only way to stop anti-Israel incitement, which is requisite for any conceivable future coexistence. Second, those local Arabs who present intractable cases must be permanently expelled, to Jordan or elsewhere. In particular, any Arab who identifies with Hamas, as well as most PA officials, will be disposed of. If Israel pursued these policies, it would take on the order of a decade to undo the damage done by the Oslo process.
Aside from this, Israel should unilaterally annex at least those parts of Judea and Samaria that are deemed vital to Israeli security, whatever those may be. The Israeli public needs to realize that hostile Arabs in annexed territories need not be granted automatic citizenship; rather, this should be conditioned on the demonstrable desire to live in peace in a sovereign Jewish state. The Arabs of Gaza, Samaria, and Judea have among the highest fertility rates in the world. This is self-conscious and deliberate overbreeding as a weapon of demographic Jihad, and it shouldn’t be rewarded.
In the near term, the most important thing to do is to bomb, bomb Iran (as John McCain put it). And if at first you don’t succeed, try, try again.
to Matthew
many of the “facts” in your no4 comment’ are just falsed:
1. the fact that arab residence of the land were “forced” to leave by gun armed people is contraversible. many of them stayed in israel. this is a fact, otherwise how come there are any arab residence in israel today? many of them choosed to stay and only run later on if the war is getting any worst. but as they understood that no harm is going to be done to them by the Jews- they stayed. the others, that did run away, did it, mostly, as per the call to do so by arab leders, whom were so convinced the war is going to be end with wiping young israel of the map. this is not some kind of israli agenda, in contrary with the palestinian one. you can find many references and documentation to that on “from time immemorial”, by american journalist Joan Peters (if you read the prolog , then you learn that this lady used to be a real supporter of the palestinians, and the original aim of that book was a pro-palestinian one, but sitting for long time in librarys and reading lots of old papers led to an absolutley opposite conclusions- that are described in details in that must read book)
2. the fact that there was armed people, who appeared in a”peacefull” arab villages- means nothing. many civilians were killed by armed USA soldiers during WW2, for instance, so maybe it is a reason good enough to let Hittler take Europe? and how about the thousands killed by NATO forces in former Joguslavia? in time of war civilians may get killed, and with all the sorrow in the world- that means nothing when asking the questions abiut how just a war was. the 48 war was declaired by arabs, after denying UN resolution 181 (that israel gladly addopted!). israel had all the justifications in the world (including juristic ones!) to defence itself. civilians may get killed in wars (jewish civilians were killed too. did you know that tel aviv was air striked by egiptian jets during that war? did you know that jewish old city of jerusalem was blasted by jordanian artilerry during that war? did you know that jews, who used to live in old city of jerusalem for decades had to leave all behind and escape to other parts of israel as the jordanioans occupied jerusalem?)
3. about UNRWA- the point is all about justice. we, the jews, have had to learn how to stay alive in hard situations during our pleasant time in europe pogroms and arab slauters for decades. so gladly we didnt need UNRWA jews from all over the world helped us on the monitary level. but the point is that UNRWA was established by UN in order to help and to take care of refugees in the middle east after the 48 war- so why isn’t it okay to help those (so many of them!) jewes who run away and fled from their former “homes” in arab hostile countries (read the above book. it gives a comprehensive view on how hostile was arab countries to theire jewish residents, especialy after the 48 war). the point here is all about justice. if UN calls for such an agency- than it should help ALL refugees, or if not- then explain why! none of these was done.
4. the point that israel had had its payment agreement with germany has nothing to do with the above UNRWA point. my father, for instance, would have gladly give this money back if his mother and younger sister were living. it is an hypocrite act to ask israel to pay for the so called damage it made to palestinians, and use the german paymantrs as something that shall prevent jewish refugees from getting any help from UNRWA. UNRWA did not help the jews because israel is no threat to the world, and the arabs are (either by terrorism or oil)
5. about the fact that no other western country had fled residence of any occupied teritory- you must be kidding, probably: only in the last 2 decades- former Joguslavia had massive population exchange (under NATO observation). iraq, under USA mandat had removed all Sune iraqis from the south to the north, as shiite iraqis did the opposite direction. your facts are just not correct. the 20th century as a whole was one with largestpeoplation exchange with hugh numbers of refugees (few millions)moving fronm one country to another, regardless of how long they had been living in the former.all long wars in the 20th century was those which western democracies were involved in.
6. about the “thieving lands”- i believe that according to your moral code USA should give back its land to the Indians, ruissia should give Moldova back to romania, Ukraine shall give back all its teritory back to sweden, pakistan shall be integrated back into india,-or this is only truth for israel?
by the way- all “occupied” territories was never an soverene teritories. it always was a deserted land, under some mandat or other occupation- and never declaired as a palestinian state, so israel didnt stole anything from nobody- the jews declaired this teritory as a state, after was left by british mandate- which was hold after WW1 as othoman empire lost the land to UK. furthermore, israel did accepted the option of cutting the land into 2 states, an offer denyed by arabs, so there is no stealling of any land from anybody who ever declaired its ownership upon it. never was!
beside- how come that after all isreali attempts to give back all “occupied teritories” in Camp David- arafat stil refused? maybe it’s time to start, for the least, suspecting the palestinians real intentions? after all, any arab state who really want peace with isreal- have it, and even got its land back… seems odd- isnt it??
“Dirty little secret”?!
I’d say it’s a Big Lie. Of the kind that would have made Goebbels proud.
Must read for all: “History Upsdie Down, the Roots of Palestinian Fascism and the Myth of Israeli Aggression” by David Meir-Levi. Must web site for all who want to know what Palestinians say to one another (schools, mosques, media and political venues) vs what they say to US/West – in their own words: Palestinian Media Watch.