The Curse of Katyn
“It is a damned place,” commented Aleksander Kwasniewski, the former Polish president and communist-turned-social democrat.
It’s difficult to disagree.
Katyn, the forest near the western border of Russia, which in 1940 became a mass grave for some 4,000 Polish Army officers and community leaders out of 20,000 first interned by the Soviet government following the 1939 Ribbentrop-Molotov carve-up of Poland and then subsequently murdered by the KGB’s predecessor on Stalin’s orders, has tragically claimed more Polish victims almost exactly seventy years later.
In news that sent shockwaves through Poland and the rest of Europe, the plane carrying Polish President Lech Kaczynski and 130 (88 according to Polish media) other senior government and military officials as well as family members of original Katyn victims has crashed on approach to the Smolensk airport, according to the latest reports killing everyone on board.
The Polish delegation was flying in to take part in joint Polish-Russian commemorations of the Katyn Massacre. The visit, following the participation of Russia’s Prime Minister Putin in an earlier commemorative ceremony, was widely seen as an encouraging first sign of a thaw between the two countries. Relations have been strained both by centuries’ worth of bad blood and conflict, as well as a more recent determination of post-communist Polish governments to chart a pre-European and pro-American course, outside of Russia’s sphere of influence.
The death of the president, together with so many key officials and guests, is not simply a tragedy in itself, but it throws the whole region into a sea of uncertainty of the kind not experienced since the fall of Communism.
Maybe Russia had something to do with it. Odd.
gp40:
I have a feeling that you are not the only one who has had that thought today…
Well done, Arthur. The words you used needed to be said.
gp40:
We’ll never get the truth out of Putin and the Russians on this, but I think you do not have to be a conspiracy nut to believe rather strongly that this crashed was engineered by the Russians.
They are back to their ruthless, murderous games. They just changed the initials from KGB to FSB.
Hell, they’re even back to the old Soviet anthem.
Funny how the KGB is always in the neighborhood. The Failed attempt on the Pope. The failed attempt on the president of Ukraine. The failed attempt on the president of
Georgia. You are bound to succeed sometimes.
The Polish people have been victims for such a long time. It has been their faith which sustained them throughout the darkness of fascism/communism. I always wondered where the origin of Polish jokes came from until years ago reading how they originated under Hitler. He had to portray an entire population as stupid and worthy of ridicule in order to destroy it. Much like what happened to the Jews. And to our fellow citizens at Waco. First the government marginalizes a segment of the population and then targets it for antagonism, ridicule, and extermination. Other citizens, human nature being what it is, begin to feel superior and join in, thankful they are not the despised. It is a treachery performed by governments on those whom they wish to destroy. The contemporary version of it is happening right here in America: those who have joined the rebellion known as The Tea Party Movement. I too wonder what role the crypto Soviets played in this latest tragedy.
Lets stop knocking the Russians. In a year our better department stores will be stocking “Obama’s Breath’ perfume. And you will buy it or else!
Is Komorowski related to Bór-Komorowski?
What goes around comes around
My heart goes out to the Polish people. They have suffered throughout their national history as a result of being in the wrong place and this is no exception. My hope is that there is no bad forces at work and they can mourn properly and move on, in peace. With the Euro coming in a couple of years…and continued european investment there economy should continue to improve. Bless the Polish people !!
The Russians are back, and their arch enemy has now laid down. Obama you are now Bulwinkle and you have no squirrel to help you defeat Boris and Natasha.
Thank you to all who wanted to be part of history and to cool to think it through.
I wouldn’t doubt Putin’s moral or technical ability to bump off an inconvenient political figure but as a veteran of Aeroflot I can attest that it is truly amazing that any of these flying buckboards that go by the name of Tupelov can achieve sustained flight. Looks like this, the Air Force One of Poland had a troubled maintenance history even for the brand and unless the Russian Ministry of Weather is far advanced of our own, I don’t think it is within the KGB’s abilities to cause the poor weather suffered at the time. Of course, if you WERE to want to engineer a plane crash these factors make it appealing to do so now.
Excellent summary of internal Polish politics, but with the further revelations os circumstance coming out, the Russians are probably off the hook for this one. Reports are surfacing that the plane was waved off from three previous landing attempts due to reduced visibility from fog, and a Russian military plane was diverted for the same reasons. Apparently the pilot decided to press the approach on the fourth attempt. The Russains may take some hits for the instrumentation and NAVAIDS at the field being out of calibration, which is a possibility, as the airfield is described as ‘seldom used’. A review of the previous wrecks involving this specific aircraft type don’t appear to indicate an inherent design or recurrent mechanical flaw, as most of the other tragedies appear to also be pilot error or other external factors.
Still, the Russians would do well to provide as much transparency as possible with the investigation, and two things would go a long way towards side-stepping any adverse political fallout due to mis-perceptions – first, have Vladimir Putin overcome his ‘I’ll take charge and get to the bottom of this’ approach, then literally and figuratively remain on the sidelines as an interested observer only; secondly, it would probably go along way towards heading off any wild conspiracy BS to request, no, insist upon EU participation and assistance with the accident investigation.
Naturally, that all depends upon the Russians seeing the long term political benefits as outweighing any short term huffing and puffing about sovereignty or indignation over irrelevant perceptions of competence.
What does this say about airports in Russia, but outside of Moscow & St. Petersburg? What does this say about the Tupolev and prehistoric capabilities, at best, to fly by instrument, instead of just by sight.
A roommate of mine was getting his pilots license about 25 years ago, on a Cessna, and training to fly by instrument as well as by sight, was mandatory. Which speaks to why would the training be mandatory, if one had to work with substandard equipment to fly by instrument.
The Kremlin doesn’t look good on this, nor does the Polish gov’t for not retiring those old planes sooner. I believe the saying is penny wise, but pound foolish.
Also, the list of the dead will show that their subordinates will have to deal
with a baptism of fire, as they move up to fill the shoes of those now dead.
It’s hard to imagine a circumstance more ripe for the Russians to reach their claws back into Poland, or one in which they had no hand. Withdrawal of protection by the present US administration has left the Poles protected only by their raw courage. The people who have hijacked Russia earned their spurs in the KGB, imprison their critics or worse, confiscate their assets, and appoint themselves for life. Only dreamy peaceniks, apologists and cowards could absolve them on these facts.
They have recovered the black boxes, which should provide evidence of attempts by traffic controllers to divert the flight to Minsk or Moscow.
It’s not Katyn curse. It’s not Russians. It’s not the Tupolev plane. It’s stupidity and lack of training – pure and simple. The pilots don’t have enough training in emergency procedures and difficult weather landings due to lack of money for training. There’s not enough of them, so they fly a lot – but train just a little or not at all. Tired, undertrained, under a lot of pressure from VIPs onboard (who don’t want to be late for the ceremonies), in bad weather – disaster waiting to happen.
If you add to this the fact that there are only a few VIP aircraft available, and only some of them are airworthy at any given moment – and there are a lot of VIPs who want to attend such event, you get the disaster above.
Some legendary words of wisdom that perhaps should be recalled by world leaders visiting Vladimir: “If it ain’t Boeing, I’m not going.”
Seriously, I doubt that it was the airplane’s fault, and plenty of Boeing’s planes have crashed too, but I have only seen the fit-and-finish of one Russian-built aircraft up close, and I would not fly on it.
Perhaps next time they’ll take the train?
This is a tragedy for Central European politics.
This is just so tragic. It must be beyond devestating to the good people of Poland. To have it happen at that particular location is also such a coincidence that like many of you here my mind goes to dark plots almost unbidden. Poland has real internal problems ahead and Russia has a huge PR problem. I would suggest that Russia invite the U.S. NTSB to investigate. They are considered the gold standard world wide and unlike the FAA are not swayed by political concerns.
That will be a real problem that Putin will have to deal with. Consider how many people think that 9/11 is an inside job. Now multiply that by at least 1000 and you have an idea of the scope of the problem.
This tragedy increases Poland’s lonely exposure to Russian malevolence. What comfort in Poland’s sad time is it’s
steadfast US allyer, umtrue grit American protection against Russia, erPolish sovereignty kept secure by US-provided missilesHelp me out here people.Oh horsefeathers, Poland is screwed – Obama is President.
No, Poland is going to start building nukes. Poland is going to make it crystal clear to Russia that they’d prefer to perish in a nuclear war, taking tens of millions of Russians with them, than to ever suffer under the boot of the Russians again.
A memory jog! The last time Poland was sold down the Russian river it was by a leftist democorrupt president by the name of Franklin Roosevelt, History repeats itself and Obozo is a flat out communist unlike Frannklin who was just another Ivy League fool.
Of all the anti-Russian talking points I’ve heard, this has to be the most divorced from reality. You make it sound like the US was in some sort of position to bring Poland into the Western sphere.
All right. Lets put you in the negotiating chair. What would you have done? What consequences would you be prepared to accept?
Roosevelt may not have been in a good position, but Truman could have said, “Screw Yalta, we have nukes. Here’s the new deal Stalin- you retreat back to the Russian border, or we nuke Moscow.”
Interesting, and how would you propose to get our six (6) nuclear bombs past the world’s largest air force?
Or, since you are talking about a threat and not an action, how would you propose to convince Stalin that we have such a capability, and therefore that the threat is even credible?
I always wondered where the origin of Polish jokes came from until years ago reading how they originated under Hitler.
Uh…nobody in Europe knows anything about Polish jokes. They originated in America. Jews of Polish heritage with a low opinion of Polish Catholics (they saw them like New Yorkers today see rednecks) began Polish jokes. Hitler can be blamed for a lot but trying to pass off Polish jokes on him is pretty ridiculous especially when their origins are quite clear.
It wasn’t so much a “low opinion”, as it was seen as a type of revenge or justice for what was seen as insane and never-ending Polish anti-Semitims.
Which is weird considering how Poland never conducted any active persecution of Jews, unlike their neighbors.
myth buster
You are totally wrong on this one. Post WWII was seething with hatred for Jews. Jews returning from Russia were attacked and murdered. My wife’s family had a handgrenade tossed through their window. In the 1950s, the Polish government was bragging about the Jews they forced out of Poland, their term was Judenrein (familiar?). Today the Poles still blame all their troubles on the Jews which is ironic since there are so few Jews there. The Poles today put on fake klezmer type of acts hoping to attract Jews to come visit their former homeland. The Poles don’t need anybody making any Polack jokes about them, they do fine on their own.
Unfotunately, Eric R., Euroman happens to be correct. Itonic, that people who bravely fought the Nazis are so characterized. For more on origins of the anti-Polish sentiment of those who in so many cases did not fight, wikipedia (below) contains some interesting information that can be a starting point for anyone interested in this subject and in resolution of this destructive bigotry in the USA–
While most Poles of all ethnicities had anti-Soviet and anti-communist sentiments, a portion of the Jewish population, along with ethnic Belorussians, Ukrainians and few communist Poles had initially welcomed invading Soviet forces.[79][80][81] The general feeling amongst Polish Jews was a sense of relief in having escaped the dangers of falling under Nazi rule, as well as from the overt policies of discrimination against Jews which had existed in the Polish state, including discrimination in education, employment and commerce, as well as antisemitic violence that in some cases reached pogrom levels.[82][83] The Polish poet and former communist Aleksander Wat has stated that Jews were more inclined to cooperate with the Soviets [84][25] Norman Davies claimed that among the informers and collaborators, the percentage of Jews was striking, and they prepared lists of Polish “class enemies” [84], while other historians have indicated that the level of Jewish collaboration could well have been less than that of ethnic Poles.[85] Holocaust scholar Martin Dean has written that “few local Jews obtained positions of power under Soviet rule.”[86]
The issue of Jewish collaboration with the Soviet occupation remains controversial. Some scholars note that while not pro-communist, many Jews saw the Soviets as the lesser threat compared to the German Nazis. They stress that stories of Jews welcoming the Soviets on the streets, vividly remembered by many Poles from eastern part of the country are impressionistic and not reliable indicators of the level of Jewish support for the Soviets. Additionally, it has been noted that some ethnic Poles were as prominent as Jews in filling civil and police positions in the occupation administration, and that Jews, both civilians and in the Polish military, suffered equally at the hands of the Soviet occupiers.[87] Whatever initial enthusiasm for the Soviet occupation Jews might have felt was soon dissipated upon feeling the impact of the suppression of Jewish societal modes of life by the occupiers.[88] The tensions between ethnic Poles and Jews as a result of this period has, according to some historians, taken a toll on relations between Poles and Jews throughout the war, creating until this day, an impasse to Polish-Jewish rapprochement.[81]
What you fail to mention is the Polish collaboration in murdering the Jews. The reason the concentration camps and death camps were located in Poland was that if anyone did escape them they were likely to be murdered by the Poles. Polish resistance fighters, the AhKah, were notorious for murdering Jews. Post war, Jews returning to Poland found their homes and possessions in Polish hands. When Poles heard of the return of these Jews, they quickly murdered them. Polish hatred of Jews goes back centuries. When the Poles controlled Eastern Russian, they used Jews as tax collectors over the local peasants. The main reason was that Jews could read and write which the Poles and the locals couldn’t do. The Poles sacrificed the Jews to the Cossacks in the Chemelski Revolt to try to win peace. After that failed, Eastern Russian was lost to the Cossacks. The Jew hatred created by the Poles was in part the basis of the massacres of Jews by the Ukranians during WWII. The other major part of the hatred was based on the fact that many Bolcheviks were Jews. Polish Jewish Communists welcomed the Red Army in 1939. They were quickly disillusioned by the reality of the Russian workers paradise. My mother’s cousins two of which were Communists had that rude awakening. One was shot by the Red army, another committed suicide. Polish Communists did not fare well under Russian control.
Oh Oscar–Why was Poland the only country occupied by the Nazis that didn’t have a quisling government–I know facts are dangerous things, but the fact is although there were very few collaborators, the overwhelming majority of Poles supported underground warfare against the Germans and many (such as the soldiers freed by Stalin after Hitler is partner in dividing Poland turned on the Soviet Union) fought bravely at Monte Cassino and the Battle of Britain. About a fifth of the Polish population of 35 million was killed during the war, half were Jewish, the other half were Roman Catholic. Show me the scholarly and respected history book that indicates many Poles were collaborators. Such people were despised by most Poles and were targeted by Polish patriots when discovered. The fact is there are more Poles who are honored as righteous Gentiles in Israel than any other nationality, and Polish underground documents indicate that Jewish reaction to the Soviet attack in the East was making it difficult to find sympathy for their plight in the Warsaw Ghetto. Nonetheless there were many Poles who helped despite the fact that any help of a Jew was punishable by death (usually public hanging)–That was not the case in any other country occupied by the Nazis. But perhaps you learned what you know from the movies like Shoah or others, where Poland outside the Warsaw Ghetto is depicted as a virtually free and placid state. My comment was addressing the origin of the dumb Pollack joke, and pointing out that it is ironic that it was started by people who emigrated to America and whose fight against antisemitism in the US and against the Nazis in Europe was minimal in comparison to the struggles of Poles in Poland, both Catholic and Jewish.
A conspiracy theory isn’t necessary here: from reports of the controllers recommending the plane divert to (IIRC) Moscow because of the fog and the pilot deciding to ignore that advice and attempt the landing anyway (on Kwasnieski’s orders?), this looks like human error that ended in tragedy.
Poor Poland. Every so often, the universe seems to have a need to make a punching bag out of her.
Putin has taken personal charge of the investigation. What a wonderful position from which to conduct a cover-up, no? I mean, hypothetically speaking, of course.
As a pilot, I can say that #16 Tomasz Pieciukiewicz is right on the money. He describes a textbook classic killer specific to aviation, and it is strictly psychological. “Get-There-itis” is behind many crashes, especially those with celebrities from Buddy Holly to Carol Lombard to JFK Jr. Unlike any other mode of travel, aviation is not a place for bravado or optimism that “I can make it or else I will look like a wuss”. From day one you are taught that safety is the ability to identify a dangerous situation and withdraw to a plan B.
However, some confuse a “no-go” decision to mean that the pilot feels he/she is afraid or incompetent to continue. Of course, the opposite is true; the pilot has shown superior skills and training by knowing when to fold and choose an alternate airport. However, “Get-there-itis” is common in events like this where the pilot could have been under pressure to complete the approach with dignitaries aboard.
A frequent factor in approach accidents is pilot unfamiliarity with the airport and the approach procedures. You have less information to decide when it doesn’t feel right. And in zero visibility, the further you get along the approach path, the more you want to get down.
Finally, most of these problems have been solved by GPS. Within the last decade a revolution in GPS navigation equipment allows a small Cessna to have better instrumentation than a 747 did just several years ago. GPS approaches are the closest thing to a foolproof system, and if the Tupolev had even the $15,000 Garmin systems commonplace in the US, there would have been no accident.
If, however, the Tupolev was equipped with old-style ILS dating back 30 years, it presented a classic combination of events – unfamiliarity, pressure, poor data and situational awareness – that led to this outcome.
You mention the airplane. What about the Air traffic control tower? Is the question equating the Smolensk Air Base traffic control tower with the Dubrovnik
control tower of the Ron Brown crash, going to be asked?
Check this out by Jonathan Kay: http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=503859ef-2fd5-4226-998e-ef3730d9f5dd
The King sits in Dunfirmline town, drinking of the blood-red wine
“Where can I get a steely skipper to sail this might boat of mine?”
Then up there spoke a bonny boy, sitting at the King’s right knee
“Sir Patrick Spens is the very best seaman that ever sailed upon the sea”
The King has written a broad letter and sealed it up with his own right hand
Sending word unto Sir Patrick to come to him at his command
“An enemy then this must be who told the lie concerning me
For I was never a very good seaman, nor ever do intend to be”
“Last night I saw the new moon clear with the new moon in her hair
And that is a sign since we were born that means there’ll be a deadly storm”
They had not sailed upon the deep a day, a day but barely free
When loud and boisterous blew the winds and loud and noisy blew the sea
Then up there came a mermaiden, a comb and glass all in her hand
“Here’s to you my merry young men for you’ll not see dry land again”
“Long may my lady stand with a lantern in her hand
Before she sees my bonny ship come sailing homeward to dry land”
Forty miles off Aberdeen, the waters fifty fathoms deep
There lies good Sir Patrick Spens with the Scots lords at his feet
Obviously, Putin will be under suspicion unless he calls NTSB. Of course, he won’t call NTSB. So, he will be forever under suspicion.
That said, there were close to 100 VIP deaths in the air. Usually, on the helicopters during pouch hunting. And these VIP could afford best pilots and best aircraft. So, the accident is as likely.
In the end, it doesn’t matter. Cursed Katyn, cursed Tupolev, cursed Vladimir. Terribly tragedy for the Poles, something that will probably affect their history for several decades.
“this time by accident and not by design of the hosts”
Things that make you say hmmm
I am sure Obama will have plenty to say about this at his next press conference, but first he has to give a few shout-outs and fist bumps before getting down to business
The revisions to History and lack of basic research on this thread are shocking. How people immediately jump to conclusions about the KGB, Putin, Russia in General, Poland, General history of Europe, lays bare the lack of education in America.
I always wondered how people like McCain, Palin, Obama get to be in Politics. It really must be true ; appealing to the ignorant masses.
Don’t put your eggs all in one basket. It’s not only the Polish govt. that failed to heed that age old adage, sports teams routinely travel on just a single plane. Powerful successful people get to the top by taking risks, but risk has to be tempered by common sense.
They should never have had practically the entire Polish government on one plane in the first place, much less flying over Russian territory. If the Russians were involved in downing the plane that is pretty awful, but so many high ranking Polish government officials should never have been there together.
I understand the aircraft crashed in bad weather and came down short of the runway,Pilot error accounts for about 50% of accidents usually at landing or take off.Implying it was sabotage is nonsense the simplest explanation is the most likely actual cause.
Questions one: What was the standard of the landing aids on the Aircraft..Car 1….2 or 3.
Question two: What was the standard of the electronic Landing aids at the Airport ?
The above will establish what aids the pilot had available to him as he attempted a landing in difficult or marginal conditions.
It is likely that if this aircraft was fitted with latest standard of cat 3 landing aids the accident would not have happened.
“In the meantime, Putin and President Medvedev find themselves with an extremely delicate accident investigation”
Rather like the extremely “sensitive murder” investigations of Anna Politkovskaya and lots of other journalists. Rather like the “extremely sensitive” investigation into the FSB oafs who were caught red-handed leaving a bag of explosives wired to a detonator under a flatblock, at the time of the apartment bombings which were Putin’s pretext for re-invading Chechnaya.
Don’t make me laugh. Putin couldn’t care less.
Actually in light of the fact that Czarist Russia held Poland in it’s grasp for at least a century, until the First World War, the model that the “czar in all but crown” Putin seems to favor. that Stalin partitioned it back in ’39, that it is a threat with it’s sizable stores of natural gas, the coincidences between yesterday and 1943, it is you
who seems ill informed
OMINOUS DEATH OF LECH KACZYNSKI
First there was the brutal Russian invasion of Georgia where America stood by and did nothing. Then came Obama’s unwarranted, senseless canceling of the missile defense shield for Poland and Eastern Europe to appease Vladimir Putin and reward him for Georgia. Now two days after the signing of a badly flawed US/Russian arms control deal Poland’s freedom loving, anti-Moscow President dies in an ominous plane crash taking with him 96 Polish dignitaries. Obama’s policies of weakness and appeasement are leading America on a deadly collision course with neo-imperial Russia indicated by several portentous events and the death of Lech Kaczynski.
Google my name ApolloSpeaks (one word on Townhall) and read my two recent articles: “The Ominous Death of Lech Kaczynski” and “The Charade in Prague.
This article places some doubts on the Tu-154 aircraft, but in fact, that particular aircraft was delivered in 1990, around the same time that the VC-25s (747s) that fly as Air Force One were delivered. Even a much older aircraft does not necessarily pose a safety risk. The much bigger issue is maintenance. One would hope that an executive military aircraft is maintained without cutting any corners. The Tu-154 is actually one of the most popular aircraft in the world, and has a decent safety record. (Certainly comparable to most western aircraft from the same era). I’d look to pilot error or error in decision-making as a major factor in this incident. (Apparently the approach was attempted a number of times in heavy fog before the crash)
“But I’m a superstitious man. And if some unlucky accident should befall him – If he should get shot in the head by a police officer, or if he should hang himself in his jail cell – or if he’s struck by a bolt of lightning, them I’m going to blame some of the people in this room, and that I do not forgive. But, that aside, let me say that I swear, on the souls of my grandchildren, that I will not be the one to break the peace we’ve made here today.”
Don Corleone to the other Dons in the movie “The Godfather”
I’ve written an article on this – check out my blog.
Darius to Oscar:
There was 10% Jews in total population in 1939 Poland.
They controlled 52% of commerce 42% of manufacture
33.5% of doctors 52% of lawyers there was 160 newspapers
and magazines in publication.I wish that kind of prosecution
on any minority anywhere.
Than again there was still same way to go to get to magic 100
I’ve been working in Poland since 1995, and as for the Poles and anti-Semitism, a couple of observations.
A sizable number of Polish Jews were Bolsheviks pro communist; ranging from passive support to active leadership positions. Many of these Jewish communist supporters and leaders were only too glad to help the Soviets keep Poland under the Soviet Unions boot. So it’s not surprising to see Jews viewed with some suspicion by some Poles. Now that Poland has been building its market economy, it seems that many of those Polish Jews that left for Israel are now trying to get in on the economic goodies that are part of the Polish economy.
11. Gordo12
In case you haven’t figured it out…Barack and Michelle ARE BORIS AND NATASHA!!!
Anyone who thinks this was an accident is on crack. Bets we will see a Moscow-allied government in Poland within a hear.
Puty-put-put was NOT amused over the whole missile defense thing and Poland is a part of the Russian “buffer zone” with the West.
Poland will overcome Katyn’s tragedies with or without world’s help. We don’t need world’s pity and russian empathy. What Poland needs are the missile shield and F16’s. The only language Russians understand.
We, Poles care more about our dead one then we care about those who are alive and I doubt that there will be any real peace between Russia and Poland until all polish officers killed in 1940 in Katyn by Russians the russian way through handcuffing and shooting them in the back of their heads with german pistols to disguise the crime, have been accounted for, their remains returned to their families and relatives and their bones honored in funerals.
America can count on Poland’s support and draw on polish blood any time they choose to do so, as America has always been for Poles a symbol of freedom. Only those who lost it and Poland lost it few times, can understand how precious it is to have it.
We fought off successfully Islam invasions long time before United States existed, survived communism, fascism and Yalta’s sell out. And seventy years from now in the year 2080, when most of us will be dead, people will lay fresh flowers for those killed in Katyn in 1940 and 2010. And they will pray. This is the way we, Poles are made of. We do remember our dead. So, let’s roll on. Tomorrow the sun will rise again and the world will go on taking away with it today’s emotions.
Andrew Stempel
Chapel Hill, NC
Gee…I wish Arthur would blog again. I miss him.
media is a curse seriously