The Crucial Trayvon Martin Evidence the Media Won’t Repeat
The video may not be for the squeamish.
The eyewitness adamantly claims that he saw Trayvon Martin in the top-mount position, with George Zimmerman on the bottom crying for help. In 911 calls placed by apartment residents, Zimmerman can be heard crying for help 14 times over a period of 38 seconds, as counted by Sanford Police investigators. These cries for help immediately preceded the shot that ended the fight and caused Trayvon Martin’s demise.
Much of the media has chosen today to focus on editorializing done by the Sanford Police Department investigator in his capias request (request to arrest), which concluded:
The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself as a concerned citizen and initiated dialogue in an effort to dispell each party’s concerns.
The investigator concluded that there was probable cause to arrest George Zimmerman for manslaughter, a request ultimately rejected by the prosecutor at that time.
It is undoubtedly true, in hindsight, that if George Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle there would not have been as great a chance of a conflict, but Cornell Law School professor William Jacobson says that is “legally irrelevant“:
Getting out of the car, in itself, is not provoking the use of force. The prosecution would have to show Zimmerman started the fight, not merely that he was in a place he has a right to be.
Even so, Zimmerman would have had legal protection even if he initiated contact if the counter-force were deadly or threatened serious bodily harm and there was no way to escape. There would be a fact issue if, as some reports say, Zimmerman were on the ground being beaten.
These nuances will be lost in the media blitz, and you will hear how Zimmerman must be guilty because he got out of the car.
Trayvon Martin mounted George Zimmerman and began raining strikes down on him for more than 38 seconds, despite the fact that Zimmerman was clearly beaten and cried for help 14 times during that time period.
Legally this is where self-defense law, and possibly the “stand your ground” provision that is part of that law, becomes relevant, and it is the first and only time that it is relevant for either man in this conflict.
At this moment, did George Zimmerman have reason to believe that the continuing assault on him could result in his serious injury or death? Put another way, could a “reasonable man” in this exact same position and unable to retreat suspect that he was facing the possibility of death if he did not use lethal force to end the threat?
The information provided by this witness completely changes the dynamics of what we now know about the case.
There is the possibility that something is still sealed or in redacted testimony (or in George Zimmerman’s statements that were not released as part of the evidentiary process) that could provide enough evidence to warrant going forward with the criminal trial. After spending last night reviewing all 183 pages of released information, however, it is difficult to draw any other conclusion except that while Trayvon Martin’s death was both tragic and avoidable, it was ultimately a legally justifiable self-defense homicide.
Memo to Eric Holder; in a similar situation I would do exactly what Zimmerman did; double tap. If you’re not too busy this weekend, Eric, shuffle on up to Baltimore and look into the black bros beating up on whites. I’m sure you’re reluctant, but that’s your job. Or is it a one way street. When it comes to race relations, you have proven to be a craven coward, Eric. So is Barry.
Holder would only go if he could have a seat at the main event. Not “as a witness”.
He’s not a coward. He’s a racist. He has drunk the full measure of the black victim culture Kool Aid. He doesn’t care about facts. He cares about the endless white-on-black racism narrative. And he defin itely doesn’t care about racist attacks against no blacks. In fact, he appears to think they are justified. He’s an ideological fanatic, narrow minded and not especially bright. Like his boss.
Thank you.
Attributing Holder’s actions to cowardice is like attributing Obama’s actions to incompetence.
Either is a dangerous underestimation of a vicious enemy.
Holder, head of the Department of Payback?
Except that Kongo is in the “full guard” position, not “mount”…
Full guard: you are on your back with your opponent between your legs at waist level, sometimes known as the missionary position. The most important part of this position is holding onto the back of the neck, the wrists, or bear hugging your opponent to control his movement. It is essential to keep him from improving his position because otherwise you will leave yourself open to ground and pound attacks and possibly submission attempts. A “closed” guard means your legs are crossed at the ankles over his back, while “open” means your legs are not entangled.
Full mount: the most dangerous position for the bottom fighter to be in. Your opponent is sitting on your chest straddling you with one leg to each of your sides. Low mount is when he is sitting on your abdomen, high mount when his knees are in your armpits. What makes the position dangerous is that it is difficult to buck your opponent off, roll or sweep him. In the meantime he will likely come down with hammerfists and elbows, or work for a kimura, arm triangle, armbar, or choke hold.
Charging Zimmerman is a sick joke. Charging him with murder 2 is insane.
Not. Guilty.
Congrats to George Zimmerman!
It took only one shot to erase a thug from the planet.
If MORE people reacted to violent crime like George did?
The world would be a much nicer place.
I call for the DEATH of attacking violent thug criminals.
If attacked, use lethal force to protect your life.
Not only thug nobodies like Trayvon Martin, but also leftist anti-gun, anti-rights fanatics like Ladd Everitt and David Frum. Tell me you wouldn’t get a grin on your face if you saw a picture of Frum lying on the ground with blood bubbling out of his mouth.
No, I really wouldn’t. Frum is a jerk, but he’s got a family.
Dead Criminals don’t call lawyers and sue you for injuries
The family (as this case proves) still can look to strike it rich off the incident, though.
That video features Cheik Congo striking from INSIDE THE GUARD. He is NOT striking from the mounted position. You need a different video. You are misinforming the public. Please fix this.
I could care less…
broken nose, cuts on the back of head, black eyes on victim…
perp autopsy shows knuckles abraded and chest wound…
seems simple really.
EVEN if zimmerman followed martin, martin had NO right to assault zimmerman.
lesson learned?
Pukes be aware, chubby bald men carry weapons.. we may be old, we may be out of shape, we may not even know kung fu, but we DO know how to plug a trigger.
And if you are DUMB enough to climb on us and beat the crap out of us? Then go and meet your maker.
Zimmerman was the STALKER….and we do not KNOW who threw the first punch.
According to one of the witness statements, Trayvon Martin Tackled George Zimmerman from behind after Zimmerman complied with the Dispatcher telling him not to follow Martin and return to his vehicle. One other tidbit of information that has been recently revealed by Zimmerman’s family, George’s Great Grandfather was a Black Man. Therefore George Zimmerman is not a White/Hispanic, but rather is a Black/Hispanic How about those apples folks.
No, Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch captain going about his lawful business.
Distinction without a difference, Wanna. The video was offered to show “Ground & Pound” (did you miss the audio and graphics at the end?). How the aggressor was in the position to deliver said grounding and pounding does. not. matter.
Whoa! Huge difference the guard is a defensive position, you can protect yourself very well from there. If an opponent has a full mount on you, you’re in deep water. Full mount on concrete or asphalt is about as bad as it gets. If you can’t get control of your opponent’s head and escape, you could get beaten to death in short order.
Whoa! Huge difference the guard is a defensive position, you can protect yourself very well from there. If an opponent has a full mount on you, you’re in deep water. Full mount on concrete or asphalt is about as bad as it gets.
Oh get real. Who cares except you MMA types?
Frank you would care if you were on the bottom and the receiving end of the Mixed Martial Art punches. Without gloves anyone of those blows can inflict serious bodily injury or even death.
Uh, the gloves aren’t to protect the person being punched. They are to protect the hands of the puncher.
When boxing went to gloves (from bare-knuckle), many commentators predicted more serious head injuries. Those predictions were proven correct.
The gold-toothed multi-tattooed hoodrat deserved what he got…
Technical correction: The video does not show the superior fighter in the “mount” position. As the article indicates, the “mount” position is achieved when one fighter straddles the abdomen of the other. What the video shows is Al Turk with Kongo “in his guard,” that is, with Kongo between Al Turk’s legs. It’s a slightly more preferable position than mount for the guy on the bottom, though, in this case, it didn’t make much difference.
It’s even worse. Trayvon was almost certainly casing the property or intending to break-in right then. Who walks a mile for candy at night, in the rain, in dark clothes? What 17 year-old leaves the NBA all-star game to wander around in the rain in the dark, particularly one who had time on his hands because he had just been suspended from school for possessing buglarly tools and having unexplainable jewelry in his backpack.
Zimmerman was right about everything. Trayvon was on high and he was going to commit a robbery that night.
Let’s be honest, it doesn’t really matter what happened any more. The Department of Justice will find some way to ensure that Zimmerman is convicted of a hate crime and either a) spends the rest of his life in prison; b) conveniently kills himself in prison; or c) is killed by a cellmate in prison.
The reason this is going to happen is that the black community has already decided that Zimmerman was a white man “hunting” for an angelically innocent black youth, and if they don’t get an outcome of either Zimmerman’s death, or life in prison, they’re going to burn down half the cities in America.
And I lay this directly at the feet of Syracuse University and the Huffington Post for having Dr. Boyce Watkins, Tulane University and MSNBC for having Melissa Harris-Perry, Georgetown University, MSNBC and CNN for Michael Eric-Dyson, PBS for Tavis Smiley, Princeton and now Union Seminary for Cornel West, Union Seminary for James Cone, MSNBC for Al Sharpton, CNN for Roland Martin and the Washington Post for The Root and Henry Gates, Jr. Above them all rise the office of the President of the United States itself and the Dept. of Justice for Barack Obama and Eric Holder.
These are American institutions and they are enabling and cozening hate speech and racism as education and propaganda. There is not a single doubt in my mind these people are responsible, along with many others on the Left, for inculcating urban myths about white people based on the thinnest of cheap psychology that are straight out lies. It has to stop. Obama and Holder must go. MSNBC and CNN should be boycotted, the schools in question need to have long letters sent to their presidents explaining why a white hood and swastika are not needed for a vicious racist.
They’ll have to come to Los Angeles and resurrect the deaf, dumb and blind OJ jurors if they hope to get a conviction in a trial. I predict it’ll go to trial and after a long, lengthy, convoluted and incredibly expensive procedure, Zimmerman will either be acquitted or found guilty of spitting on the sidewalk and sentenced to time served. Zimmerman will also mount a very expensive defense, paid for by on-line donations, and Martin’s family will be further outraged that that money is going towards Zimmerman’s defense and not into their own pockets for restitutional blood money. After the acquittal will be the interesting part — to see if the MSM, White House and race mongers gin up another bloody burning riot among “outraged” brothers demanding “justice” in the form of free flatscreen TVs, Nike shoes and other people’s iPad phones. If there is a riot, I predict the outraged brothers will be met with major pushback in the streets by citizens of all colors, with the police acting as traffic directors and ambulance callers. I just hope this all happens before next November so Obama can take his proper place in the cast of characters.
That didn’t happen with the Rodney King riots. LAPD pulled back and let it happen. What makes you think it will be better this time? When every police chief knows that his job is history if he actually does something useful to stop the violence? And make no mistake – Obama will make sure that message is delivered loud and clear.
What makes you think it will happen 20 politically-correct years later?
Keep in mind that citizens have been buying weapons in record quantities since the last presidential election, and the number of purchases have not begun to plateau.
KenG. I can feel you quaking in your little boots. If the white community had the sense God gave a gopher, it would be declaring loudly & frequently how it is not going to allow black thugs to “burn down half the cities in America.” What the hell is everyone doing stowing away all those guns? Just to polish & take out for target practice? But alas, there are too many metrosexual castrati walking around with attitudes reflected by your post.
I have a feeling a riot isn’t going to fly this time around, unless it’s in a black neighborhood. The Left has really exposed themselves this time around and the benefit of the doubt is gone from those not entirely on board that Left’s absurd racialist platforms. People are watching and waiting this time around and seeing a thing you expected makes one twice as angry as a thing you didn’t expect. It wouldn’t surprise me if you saw short, sharp gun battles in more than one city should Zimmerman get acquitted and black folks riot.
There’s a limit to how much people will take who are eternally blamed for things they don’t do. Obama and his creatures have highlighted the people and the theories that enable this. In this sense, that hug of Obama’s for Derrick Bell the Left laughs off could be seen in an entirely different light by people who no longer have a sense of humor about the New Jim Crow and white privilege. MSNBC could be charged with inciting hate and riots were there such a law on the books. That shows you how radicalized the Left has become and completely unaware of it.
Actually, I am with you more than you might think (albeit the castrati are out there!). I recall some years back when hubby was working part time in big bro’s replacement window business, there was a black salesman who flatly refused to go into some white working-class neighborhoods for fear of his personal safety. To a large degree, these oh-so tough black punks are actually cowards (still dangerous, mind you) who don’t generally venture out too far from the ‘hood to cause trouble.
I think you are correct and I used to carry just my 9mm daily for EDC but now I carry a compact 40 on my person at all times (concealed) and a 45 both with twos extra mags and the 45 with also a third mag with a 14 round capacity, plus I might also have a 12 gauge 18.25″ Mossburg pump with double ought buckshot.
Having been an attempted murder victim when I was only 18 years old I have carried pistols since 1974, if you met me on the street you wold not know it and I like to keep it that way. I have enough firepower to get the hell out of Dodge and get to my personal armory of over ten weapons and hundreds of rounds of ammunition for each of several major calibers 9mm, 357, 40 and 45 plus shotgun ammunition. I invest weekly in metals mostly lead!
That’s where they start. The only question is, how far will they spread?
Yeppers. And who lives in those cities? Ghetto rats and Eloi.
Along with innocent people and those who are unwilling to just hand over the city to barbarians and bleeding hearts. Use some sense before you throw every urban area under the bus.
Akatsukami, every day is a struggle for Humanists as we battle the Eloi and the Morlocks who elect them.
There is an alternative: gun owners can kill those behind this.
I suggest to you that ultimately ZImmerman will be freed. I’ll also suggest to you that when the resulting black riots start, we all need to be prepared to defend our homes and businesses.
Please don’t get hysterical like this by blaming the MMA. People have been fighting like that since people have been fighting.
One problem with this analysis: Zimmerman’s gun was in his waistband. How does he draw his gun if Martin is sitting on his abdomen?
Eyewitness statements are notoriously unreliable. Best to let the court and jury analyze all the evidence and come to a reasoned verdict.
Are you serious? All the credible testimony is consistent with self-defense. In order to convict of any crime, there has to be proof beyond reasonable doubt. That surely isn’t provided by your (reasonable) question.
Here’s a reasonable answer to it: Maybe Martin wasn’t in the “mount” position but the “full guard” position (a distinction I just learned in this thread). After all, the description of him straddling Martin is consistent with either one. Then Zimmerman would have been able to get to his gun.
Indeed,
All the credible testimony is consistent with self-defense since day one, or rather, Night One.
Florida, being a CCW State had some “sympathy” for his fully justified actions, but even then someone “wanted” him initially charged:
The CPD investigator: “The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement”
I’ve taken lots of heat for “aggreeing” with that sentiment at length here, but I never say he should be charged.
What I’ve been saying is, its INEVETABLE, even in “gun friendly” places, that you will be second guessed for “inserting” yourself, with a gun, into any (potentially) confrontational situation. Use your head.
Zimmerman really F’ed up thinking “nothing bad would happen” by getting out on foot….when actually, no possible GOOD could have came from that choice….
even if Martin never attacked him, the COPS might have maced him if they were arguing when they got there, not knowing who was who…
Just raising you hand to point which direction you came from (thinking you were having a “conversation” with them because you’re the one who called?) will get you into a choke hold…
Then they go ape-shit to arrest you for “resisting” and revoke your CCW permit to cover their dumb asses.
No. Possible. Good. Was ever in the cards in exiting the vehicle, none, zero, zilch, nada. As a RESPONSIBLE gun owner, he should have seen that from 20,000 feet.
Call it the Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations, call it the White Mans Burden, call it a Facist Police State at war with Armed Citizens, call it what ever you like.
Its the reality of carrying a firearm.
Be smart, and dont get trapped.
Ask Zimmerman how well “the truth” has protected him so far.
Apologies for the double post, my bad.
Getting out of the car was tactically unwise, but only because it made him vulnerable to criminal misuse of the legal system by political activist DAs and by shyster lawyers bringing civil suits. There was, or should not be, any legal implications to Zimmerman getting out of the vehicle.
Indeed,
All the credible testimony is consistent with self-defense since day one, or rather, Night One.
Florida, being a CCW State had some “sympathy” for his fully justified actions, but even then someone “wanted” him initially charged:
The CPD investigator: “The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement”
I’ve taken lots of heat for “aggreeing” with that sentiment at length here, but I never say he should be charged.
What I’ve been saying is, its INEVETABLE, even in “gun friendly” places, that you will be second guessed for “inserting” yourself, with a gun, into any (potentially) confrontational situation. Use your head.
Zimmerman really F’ed up thinking “nothing bad would happen” by getting out on foot….when actually, no possible GOOD could have came from that choice….
Even if Martin never attacked him, the COPS might have maced him if they were arguing when they got there, not knowing who was who…
Just raising you hand to point which direction you came from (thinking you were having a “conversation” with them because you’re the one who called?) will get you into a choke hold…
Then they go ape-shit to arrest you for “resisting” and revoke your CCW permit to cover their dumb asses.
No. Possible. Good. Was ever in the cards in exiting the vehicle, none, zero, zilch, nada. As a RESPONSIBLE gun owner, he should have seen that from 20,000 feet.
Call it the Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations, call it the White Mans Burden, call it a Facist Police State at war with Armed Citizens, call it what ever you like.
Its the reality of carrying a firearm when The State and The Media both hate the Second Amendment, and coddle criminals.
Be smart, and dont get stuck in their trap.
Ask Zimmerman how well the “clear and uncontested truth” backed up by witnesses and physical evidence, known since Night One, has protected him so far.
????
You find something wrong with this statement?
If you do, something is wrong with you.
Bad typo in my first post: should be “straddling Zimmerman”
Ed, I’ll sell you a clue: having the leverage and room to swing effectively requires far more freedom of movement than sliding a hand to your waist and drawing a gun.
Actually if martin was in the full mount on zimmermans chest, zimmerman could reach around martins legs and still get to a gun on his waist. But we dont know the full details of the position, but only that there are many possible positions where zimmerman would have been unable to escape, and would have been in a position to take severe damage, but still reach his gun.
That video is showing Kongo fighting from within the opponents guard. Had he been fully mounted he would have been in a far more dominant position to strike.
The our real racial problem is the mainstream media who turn a blind eye to black racism. This cannot be ignored any longer.
Holy crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You cannot say that. It’s not PC. Bravo.
Not sure the facts matter here.
This isn’t about justice.
It is about politics and legalities.
Greetings:
How’s about we just look at what’s being done to Mr. Zimmerman as another example of “the process is the punishment” and let it go at that.
The State of Florida will tie him up legally and economically for a couple of years and then Eric (My People) Holder’s Department of Justice appointees, whether or not America repeats the Obama Error, will have their fun for another several just to encourage (or rather discourage) the others who would defend themselves from being murdered by Negroes.
No justice, no peace for Mr. Zimmerman, thank you.
Not only was Zimmerman possibly in fear of his life from the hand to face beating but also probably was in fear of losing control of his weapon that might have been revealed to Martin during the struggle.
The gunshot was at close range as they still were engaged in struggled and its possible that Martin was attempting to take control of the weapon when it went off.
Or perhaps that Zimmerman in pain after having his nose broken and head cut after being pounded into the contrete, may have felt he would have been limp and defenseless after tge beating and his opponent who started the physical action would take and weapon and kill him once it was in his control.
Its hard to say Zimmerman started the fight if Martin had no marks on him except for the bullet entry area and his fists and knuckles. If Martin started the fight then he committed the first crime of the night with the physical assault and the gunshot at close range was in result of that in defense.
I watched one of those “No justice no peace” wannabes at Penn station this last week. He was alone, so he was keeping it toned down. (Other than the ludicrous shirt.) I laughed at him as he walked by. He glanced at me and asked “What’s your problem?”
I pointed at his shirt.
“Thanks for identifying yourself as an easily led automaton.” Then I pointed at the two cops nearby and walked away.
I think everyone is missing the point here. Let’s break it down what really happened:
1. Adult white man with a gun chases scared African-American youth,
2. Adult white male with gun confronts confused African youth,
3. Adult white guy with Glock screams at dazed Ethiopian youth, I assume probably something like, “Hey Cool Breeze, I’m gonna spray you down with lead!”
4. Terrified Somali youth’s natural survival mechanism goes into full auto.
5. Youthful Liberian-American jumps onto aggressive, armed Western-European male (much like his ancestors did in that Michael Cain movie “Zaka Zulu”), thereby defending himself from obvious aggression,
6. Crazy, imperialist white guy gets a bit hurt and overacts with excessive force with a frigin’ handgun. What a wuss!!
This is the REAL scenario, and why the Florida authorities are pursuing a murder rap and a well deserved death penalty! I have traditionally been an opponent of the death penalty, but not with this one! No sir!
I hope you’re kidding…if not I’d prescribe a thorazine big gulp…
pppp,
LovelyEarth is kidding. He/she does it well. To the point that I am becoming a fan.
Oh, LovelyEarth
Hmm, Yes…
Rather like that constant “over reaction” by Israel to perpetual terroist attack..those eeevil racists.
Whats so bad about a bloody nose (or a nicked scalp) every once in a while,
you have to KILL people over it?
You KNOW they cant control themselves, why provoke them?
(snark off)
“white guy with Glock”…
Get your facts straight please….he had a popular and fairly inexpensive KetTec 9. Life time warranty and made in Florida…OhhhhRah.
much like his ancestors did in that Michael Cain movie “Zaka Zulu”
Historical bankruptcy, you has it. First the Michael Caine movie was called Zulu, not Zaka Zulu, which I’m sure you meant Shaka Zulu, a miniseries about a man who was long dead by the events of the film Zulu; which depicted the battle of Rorke’s Drift. Now the funny part about that is, that the British force of 150 men defeated the 4000 strong Zulu force in an Alamo (I’ll assume you have passing familiarity with the Alamo) style battle. You may want to rethink your analogy and try, I duno, doing some research.
lovelyearth forgot all about Islandlwana where Zulu’s massacred thousands of British troops just days before Roarkes Drift.
lovelyearth: Your wrong, how do I know?
1. Zimmerman was not all white and treyvon was not scared l’il child. 6’3″
2. Neighborhood watch asked polite question “What are you doing here”?
3. Zimmerman was not armed with a Glock. The only one screaming was Zimmerman when truyvon attacked him.
4. Hysterically angry American black goes all race hate for whitey disturbing treyvon’s rob and burglary. attacks with “sucker punch” from behind as Zimmerman walks away.
5. drugged black-American jumps onto Hispanic/black/white Neighborhood watch and says, “you gonna die tonight whitey”!
6. Neighborhood watch gets assaulted and pinned taking repeated blows to face and head trevoyn goes for his pistol which Zimmerman is legally allowed to carry CCW permit Zimmerman gets pistol first and shoots treyvon in the middle of his body, since Zimmerman is not a bad man he doesn’t go for the prescribed double tap but attempts CPR until he realizes the perp is dead.
AND
6. Negroes everywhere think this gives them free rein to attack and beat whites all over America with no fear of Obama’s man Holder.
7. Whites wake up see racism is blacks main view and hatred of whites is normal for blacks then attempt to fool the world so negroes can beat any whites they want to repay for white sins from 200 years ago.
8. Whites buy guns for the race war being waged by Obama and Holder.
9. whites take a lot of attacks but will grow weary of the fact.
10. people see Obama for what he is and vote him out of office.
You needn’t get all technical about MMA style ground and pound. There’s an element here that is even more urgent and even more favorable to a claim of self defense — Martin is slammming the back of George’s head onto a hard surface. This is an extremely dangerous situation; George is perhaps one or two slams away from either being rendered unconscious and completetly helpless Or from sustaining serious brain damage
And hey MSM, how you like me saying George and Martin (as opposed to Trayvon and Zimmerman)
the liberal meme is that Zimmerman has a bad temper and a history of “assault” both charges from many years before, and Martin had a clean record.
Yet wasn’t there an incident when Martin attacked or assaulted a bus driver? Has anyone checked out this incident, or if Martin had assaulted other people? Or if they confiscated the jewelry in his backpack when he was searched in school? The cops said it wasn’t reported as missing, but that is not the same thing as finding who owned it (lots of petty crime is not reported: I myself have “lost” several rings, but since I didn’t know which of my sons’ friends stole them, I never reported it)…
“Getting out of the car, in itself, is not provoking the use of force. The prosecution would have to show Zimmerman started the fight, not merely that he was in a place he has a right to be. ”
Precisely. In the parlance of the left that is known as “blaming the victim”. The victim being Zimmerman before he defended himself and dealt the fatal blow to Martin. In fact think back years ago with the Central Park Jogger. To argue that Zimmerman getting out of the car was inexcusable would be to lay the blame on the doorstep of the female jogger for running in an area which attracted predators. Sorry it doesn’t wash. Getting out of your car doesn’t break a law. Martin was not compelled to react the way he did. And Zimmerman didn’t force him to.
A document dump from the prosecution? Do they want us to stop them?
Good article. I heard that ABC actually did report this part of the story, and even gave a headline saying it supported zimmermans defense, so at least part of the MSM is starting to become honest about this case. MSNBC as usual was totally biased, and only highlighted the legally irelevant “he could have stayed in his car” part.
There are several legal questions to be answered here.
1. Did zimmerman do anything illegal in following martin, even after the 911 guys advised him not to (note I said illegal, not wise or sensible). Answer, clearly no.
2. If zimmerman confronted martin and asked him what he was doing (not proven, but possible), did he do anything illegal (note again I am not asking whether it was sensible, just whether it was illegal). Answer again, no.
3. If zimmerman did confront martin, provided he did not try to attack or physically restrain him (also never proven), even when martin had done nothing wrong previously, would that give Martin the legal right to physically attack zimmerman. Answer no. So in this case, martin would be the only one to have committed a criminal act so far, felonious assualt.
4. If zimmerman was physically confined, unable to retreat, and being severely beaten (something apparently proven by the independent witness and zimmermans injuries), does that justify using leathal force in self defense. Answer yes. Note also that in this case, the stand your ground law has nothing to do with it. Since zimmerman was confined and could not retreat, he could legally defend himself even under the old law.
If these 4 points are true, zimmerman has an unshakeable self defense case, and if these facts were known by the prosecution, it was a gross miscariage of justice to even arrest him, and the original prosecutor (loudly criticised by the media as biased) was correct not to arrest zimmerman.
The only thing that might alter this is if the prosecution can prove that zimmerman physically started the fight (following somebody, or even confronting them do not count, since martin could have just walked away, or just quietly waited for the cops to arrive). Zimmerman would have had to use physical means to stop him from leaving, or at least used some sort of fighting words, such as a racial epethet, or uttered a serious threat in the confrontation, to prevoke the actual fight. And I have heard zero proof for that as of now. Even then, the facts would not support 2nd degree murder (which would require proven intent to seriously injure, not just insult or restrain), at best it would support manslaughter.
This case is appearing more and more to be a biased racially driven leftist/MSM lynching, against an innocent defendent, just like the duke rape case.
The Duke Lacrosse case all over again. Obama is losing about 20% of the black vote nationally, time to call the troops home. Disgusting!
BINGO!
You are of course correct, and there should have never been charges against Zimmerman for anything at all, the evidence as well as eye witness accounts and also Zimmerman’s own testimony that this case should never make it to trial, the Judge should throw the case out and have the prosecutor investigated for judicial misconduct and possible disbarment and even further a prison time offense for even taking what is known and bringing it before the court!
Regardless of the out come I am always fully armed and prepared to defend myself and family in the case of riots, and I lived through them in the 1960′s and will do so again in the 20 teens!
Another drug crazed porch monkey attacks and is snubbed out. Is this loss to society? No, a gain. Zimmerman singlehandedly prevents several decades on robberies, attacks on other humans, and generational payments to the future ghetto baby mommas.
Let’s give him prize!
your languages is ugly and offensive.
of couse the case against zimmerman is nonsense – that was obvious from day one. that does not obviate the tragedy of the loss of a human life. unrepentant thugs like martin at 17 can and often do reform themselves to become good and decent men. the pain of his family is also real and tragic.
there are no winners in this case. my best to mr. ziommerman that he will have an opportunity to live his life as a fine man and fine citizen.
“and is snubbed out. Is this loss to society? No, a gain. Zimmerman singlehandedly prevents several decades on robberies, attacks on other humans, and generational payments to the future ghetto baby mommas.
Let’s give him prize!”
1) It’s snuffed, not snubbed.
2) “is this loss….let’s give him prize!” German, are you? They have a habit, since German grammar doesn’t use “ein” before the German equivalent of these lines, to leave “a” out when speaking/writing in English.
3) “ghetto baby mommas”? Not a phrase used in the US.
Nice try, Euro, at impersonating someone you think sounds like a “right-wing racist.”
Nice.
How convenient. A white witness that backs up Zimmerman perfectly. There’s no way of course, they got their stories straight before the cops came though, right?
You are quite disgusting. Do you have any proof whatsoever that this independent witness would have any reason at all to committ perjury to protect zimmerman, other than being white. And both of their stories are backed up by the forensic evidence of zimmermans injuries, and martins lack of injuries, other than his fists getting worn out from punching zimmerman. There are only 3 possibilities here:
1. You are joking, indulging in a parody, or being a troll to revoke a reaction.
2. You are a black racist, who beleives every white person would be willing to committ perjury to protect any guilty fellow white.
3. You are a leftist who has drunk too much kool aid, and has listened to MSNBC too long.
The physical evidence (Zimmerman’s head injuries, Martin’s knuckle injuries and lack of other fight injuries, and their known clothing that unquestionably identifies who was on top and beating who) fully supports both Zimmerman and the witness. Your comment just exposes your own irrational hatred of whites, and such black racism is the only reason this case is going to trial, instead of being dismissed on the basis of the clear evidence, as it should be.
Yes, that sounds sensible… Zimmerman must have phoned the witness ahead of time and said, “Hey, the police are going to overhear the fight over the cellphone, so I’m going to scream alot and punch myself in the face repeatedly while my intended target stands there and looks on… then I’m going to shoot him! Remember to back me up on it!”
moron
Bob Owens, do me a favor and post Vinnyboombots’s IP address so I can identify and locate it.
He’s on the 911 call while it happened saying pretty much the same thing. Must have planned it with Zimmerman in advance, right?
The direction events are going in is toward an American version of Kristallnacht.
At least that is clearly the goal aimed for by such as Al Sharpton and Eric Holder, an America where the law no longer defends white and asian ancestry citizens, and the clients of those such as Holder may stride forth and inflict any depradation they desire.
But we are dealing with the Americans of the 21st Century, not the Jews and Nazis of the 1930s.
Eric Holder has deemed non-black Americans to be, fair game.
I just hope that Black Americans are sophisticated enough to know that the victim pool is not going to just meekly submit.
I wonder how many of Martin’s supporters know what the term “Kristallnacht” means. Have the education and the history to know.
Fair enough NanGee!
But then my target audience was to those who do know the meaning of Kristallnacht.
Of course they know the meaning. Just show them any tapes of the riots in Newark, LA, Chicago, Baltimore, Atlanta…and say see…that’s …Kristallnacht.
They don’t need or want a general uprising, or the left’s long desired “helter-skelter;” despite all their efforts to make themselves more relevant, blacks are still only 12 or 13% of the population and are largely concentrated in segregated communities. A general uprising would result in either the destruction of their own neighborhoods or if they went on a rampage in white neighborhoods, a lot of dead blacks, though some urban white castrati might be collateral damage.
What the Obamunists want is riot and rumor of riot that is credible enough to suppress the vote in white suburbs in swing states and states with proportional elector selection. If the mushy suburban moderates stay home, vote easily stolen absentee ballots, or vote Obama for fear of the reaction to a loss, then the Obamunists have improved their election chances significantly. Nobody on the right is really persuadable; the only variable is how many Paulbots vote third party and how many “true conservatives” stay home so as not to sully their ideological purity. Nobody on the left is persuadable though they don’t have anything like the cult fanaticism they had last time so the yutes may just get stoned and forget to vote. That leaves the 15-20% in the mushy middle to decide the election. Whenever a communist, excuse me, Democrat, is accusing the other side of something, it means the Democrat is doing or planning to do it; hence the constant yammering about voter suppression. So, because of the evil Republican attempts at voter suppression, the New Black Panthers, the NAACP, the unions, and other communist, excuse me, Democrat fronts decide they need to have election “observers,” and just happen to put a lot of them in white suburbs; that’s about all it will take to neutralize the mushy middle.
Hey Art!
Good stuff and really not far off from the scenario I postulated relative to a parallel to Kristallnacht.
The key being that some portion of the populace was denied the protection of the state, while another portion was encouraged by the same state to run amok.
Kristallnacht was not so much about killing, like later events were. It was about dehumanization.
By exempting even a modest portion of a populace from the sanctions of criminal law, while at the sametime ignoring the victim status of another portion, one has a situation ripe for what I described. Or at least an attempt.
As you say, the violence won’t likely get much out of their own neighborhoods.
And if there is an attempt at breaking out, the casualities will likely approach 100 percent.
Still does not mean that something like this scenario is what the likes of Holder and Sharpton have in mind for their intended victims. They just harbor illusions about how well it might work.
Hey Art you know you are right, a smaller population is not crazy enough and even if so might find our soon that with gun sales at an all time high there are plenty of citizens in shall issue states getting permits to carry firearms and are now ready to fight with deadly force, and the law will protect them in many of these states…threats of a riot only happen in cities, not on the way to work unless you are driving through a city and you should be able to see the problem before you even get there , but if not I am always well armed and should have no problem busting through a little trouble, plus by vehicle might get damaged from those I run over in the process but hey they ashed for it and it saves me ammunition!
We may never know who threw the first punch, but having a direct statement from a witness that Martin was raining blows down on Zimmerman while mounted on his torso violates Martin’s duty to retreat, an aspect of this incident I have never seen even mentioned once in any media.
Anyone notice that Trayvon and his mom don’t have the same last name?
Yes,I noted it but am too inured to it to be moved by it. Why expect more of such people?
I’m rather certain the reason Attorney General Holder dismissed the convictions against the New Black Panthers in Philly was because he too realized that elderly whites and Jews wouldn’t have had any harassment and intimidation if they hadn’t “left the car.”
“Jews and whites can just stay home on election day. Come out, get assaulted and we’ll arrest your ass for instigating hate crimes by being present.” Welcome to Obama’s AmeriKKKa.
One advantage that Zimmerman has is that dead men tell no tales because the Left would love to have a counter narrative even if it was contradicted by the evidence. Zimmerman’s statement in the hours following the shooting will be a key part of the puzzle. I believe his statements can be submitted in court without taking the stand. How exactly did the fight start? Did Zimmerman state to the police that he was returning to his car when he was attacked? That would explain why the supposed 160 pound Martin ended up in a position of advantage or the heavier Zimmerman.
How Zimmerman was able to grab his gun also needs to be answered. The autopsy said Martin was killed at close range. Was Zimmerman still on the ground in contact or was he standing up? I have not read anything that mentions blood on Zimmerman’s clothes. Is that significant or would blood splatter mainly be found if there was an exit wound? Clearly if they were still engaged on the ground it would bolster a case of self defense.
If it was a gunshot through his clothing and a hoodie would there necessarily BE splatter? At close range the bullet doesn’t necessarily fragment much and would be at really high velocity, would not necessarily be hitting bone, and the initial splatter might well just be caught by the cloth. If the first reaction after shooting was to, as most people might do, roll the body off of you, might not get any blood on him at all, quite naturally.
This was ALL about sending a message to “WHITEY” even if they had to use a part Hispanic, part black man to zoom it home.
Get it?
What is most distressing about this is that black “leaders” and Leftists in general represent thugs like Martin and high school drop out slum dwelling criminals as the model for black males. One moronic black Congresswoman said: “Trayvon was killed for acting black”. and THAT is the problem!
Put another way, could a “reasonable man” in this exact same position and unable to retreat suspect that he was facing the possibility of death –
Or grevious bodily harm. The law allows for the use of lethal force in self-defense if you have a reasonable fear of death or grevious bodily harm.
Google “head concrete TMI traumatic brain injury”
“The 30-year-old Harris is now bedridden, unable to talk, and requires around the clock care. His wife is his primary caregiver.”
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/01/25/king-county-settles-with-family-of-brain-trauma-victim-for-10-million
What baffles me most, is that friends I have on the left, will not even fathom the possibility that the left could even be mistaken about anything. I am a right-wing conservative, but even I fact-check what comes from my preferred media. Is it so hard, and such a big deal to personally make sure what you are being told is correct? I don’t even know “how” to blindly “believe” someone, even someone I trust. It is like a natural instinct to make sure something is true. How does the left do it? I can’t understand the blind obedience, it just be low IQ, what are they being brainwashed with?
I commend your critical evaluation of whatever one reads or hears from the media. I am baffled how people who should be intelligent enough and think carefully about the whole matter can allow their ideological position to totally distort their thinking and reasoning.
We all know that the court is the place where justice should be administered – prosecution and defense taking place with a thorough examination of evidence. Yet this had been a trial by media. Even someone like Piers Morgan on CNN has been quite scandalous in the way he grilled a lawyer without having either any of the trial documentation nor any legal expertise. A trial by media and politicians is a travesty of justice! Only in a court of law where evidence is presented and witnesses are cross examined can there be any hope of justice. It is necessary to expose the lynch mob and their undermining of justice and shame media who support the lynch mob.
The meme has been, “conservatives think libs are stupid; libs think conservatives are evil.”
For me, that has changed.
I think libs are both stupid AND evil and I don’t have any use for them at all. I refuse to have any dealings with people who vote ‘rat. If they admit to it, I treat such an admission exactly the same as them openly stating that they are a thief and an anti-white racist. They don’t get my business, my money, or work for me.
The libs done a damned good job of bringing the country down and they’re on track to destroy it totally. The biggest consolation I have, knowing what they’ve done to America, is to know that some conservatives will survive the coming upheaval. The libs, when it’s over, will be extinct.
Poor little Trayvon. Little punk thinking ‘he gon’ get heim some street cred’ by attacking the shorter, fatter Zimmerman. Momma & daddy (momma especially) ‘thinkin’ dey done won da lottery’.
Put a nice shirt on, daddy. But you can’t hide those gang tattoos on your neck. Your boy was just following in your footsteps.
I will state that Sanford is not what I consider a nice town, for the most part. The majority is very dreary. But Zimmerman’s neighborhood is not what I consider Sanford. Nice gated communities in that area far from downtown.
If I ever must be chosen for jury duty, God let it be this one. But I guess I’ve already disqualified myself with this post.
As Sharpton or that idiot Frederica Wilson with her plastic hat ‘act’ whom blacks seem to love to elect, “Traybon din’t do nuffin, dawg!”
One more piece of info would be handy. Whose fingerprints are on the weapon.
Mrs. Romneys.
All of ours… and those who believe in 2A and self defense. And refuse to submit to threats, intimidation or gangsta hooligans / trash.
Questions for the group. I heard that Trayvon had talked to his girlfriend on his cell phone shortly before the shooting. That being the case, why, if Trayvon felt under threat, didn’t he dial 911? Had he done so, none of this would have happened. The 911 operator would have told him the cops were on their way.
Much is being made of the fact that Zimmerman did not remain in his car, and thus he was at fault for the shooting. How so? Didn’t Trayvon have the power to call a cop? Didn’t he have the power to end this before it started? I rather think so.
Next, has anyone seen one shred of evidence that contradicts Zimmermans rendition of the events? I have not. Not one single bit of evidence, even in the pile of material relieced today, shows a single contradiction. That being the case, and it seems to be the case, how can he be found guilty of a crime? I haven’t a clue. Perhaps someone else does.
And third, When OJ was aquitted of murder of his white ex wife, no riots in the streets, no upriseing of rednecks, no cars burning on the side walks.
If Zimmerman is found not guilty it will be very interesting to see what the reaction of black America will be. Will it be a calm acceptance of the verdict, or riot? What does either response tell us about race in America today?
My guess is (assuming all the evidence is out now) the judge will dismiss the case, jury will never get it, riot will never happen. Sharpton and friends have figured out this case is a loser and have moved on. In fact, I suspect that was the intent in charging 2nd degree…the special prosecutor wanted the evidence fully aired and an acquittal to result. A refusal to charge (while more appropriate) would have fed the conspiracy theories. This way, things have been fully transparent. Sucks for Zimmerman, but maybe he can write a book and make a buck off the whole thing….
Potentially hundreds of millions from settlements with NBC, ABC, CBS, NPR, MSNBC, and any other outlet that repeatedly played the bogus audio and video intended to portray Zimmerman as an uninjured racist murderer.
OK he was calling his girl friend to let her know he was gonna whoop a cracker who was looking at him the wrong way at three o’clock in the morning while he was just going to the sto to get some skittles and tea…what a crock of $HIT~
Fingerprints on the weapon may be a moot point. Doesn’t Zimmerman state that Martin knocked him down and attempted to take his gun? If true, Zimmerman wouldn’t have had to reach far to get it back. And, if what he’s said to date is proven true, then we can only imagine that he (Zimmerman) believed if he didn’t get that gun back, he (Zimmerman) wouldn’t see his next sunrise. At least, that’s how it seems to me.
And since the “white Hispanic” Zimmerman shot Martin, how many black men have killed other black men in the US, with nary a peep from the media?
This is exactly correct. Martin probably had not the slightest inclination to stop beating on Zimmerman. In many cases, these things end up with the person being beaten ending up in the hospital or worse, the morgue.
Most likely, Martin was your “typical black tween” pent up with rage for screwing off in high school, spending his time wasting time, looking for ways to scam people, hanging with his “peeps” and all the things that young punks choose to do out of their desire to avoid responsibility.
This is nothing new. Hundreds of years of history shows that given the right circumstances, certain people choose to reject society and simply go to ground. By that, I mean the lazy, blame others way. Lack of parenting is probably in play here and Trayvon, like so many young adults learn quickly to give their mother the snow-job and treat momma like a saint because she cooks and cleans. And disapproval from momma must be avoided. Not for the reasons of shame, but so she’s kept in the dark about his desire to become a thug punk.
It’s a story that’s been repeated millions of times, not just in the black community but in every society in the world since records have been kept.
The time that passes between childhood and adulthood has to be tempered carefully. Some teens are raging pools of hormones and not given guidance or instruction on how to tame them. So instead, their emotions control them. It’s a very critical time in any person’s life. The 60′s kind of unraveled this philosophy by letting kids have their own way. In my house, however, that never happened. I did what my parents told me to do or there’d be hell to pay. Mom was more tolerant but dad never put up with any crap from his kids. He might tolerate it from other kids because he wasn’t responsible for them but he was known to tell a friend or two of mine to go home because he wasn’t going to have their disrespect toward him. One of the things he had said was, “When you have lived the life I have and make the money I do, then maybe you can be critical of how I do things. Otherwise, shut the f*** up.”
My friend’s eyes were big as saucers and even though I had warned him about giving my dad any lip, he thought he was quite the clever lad.
But in Trayvon’s case, as in the case of ANY young man, no father, no surrogate dad, no positive influence on his life and that’s the recipe for disaster as they will find a path that fills the need for self-respect and makes him feel big. Every teenage boy in the world wants to be respected and admired. It’s odd but it’s true. If they’re not athletically talented, or smart, they end up seeking other lines of gratification.
The same can be said though for the dysfunctional family with hyper-critical parents who see no promise in their kids, who belittle them and, of course, who beat them. It’s not a perfect world but a kid without a good guide is truly lost.
In no way am I excusing Martin’s actions. For he made his choice and he must now be held responsible. All this jibber-jabber from the racist media is njust noise and matters not. When the riots occur, wherever they do, I hope no one gets hurt. But they will be rife with them tearing up their own surroundings, property, stealing from local businesses, acting like fools and the miscreants they are. As they say, “you can’t fix stupid”…and really, you can’t.
But their anger is all contrived. None of them have anything to be angry about, except perhaps themselves. But they cannot see that because of the thick fog of the race-baiters. They allow and encourage the charade to continue, usually just for the sake of perpetuating the anger. The money made off it is a side-benefit or perhaps the very single reason they do it.
It’s pathetic and sad. Shameful, disgraceful, very antisocial.
So I look forward to a Zimmerman acquittal and then cue the a**holes as they riot. Hopefully, the police will be out in force making sure such things don’t happen. I’m sure the Communist News Network will have full coverage of when the verdict is about to be pronounced and then the cameras will switch to the lines of police in every major city, as well as some not-so-major ones. CNN would loves them some riot ac-tiv-i-tay. But if the police forces are on the ball, they will keep close watch on trouble spots.
Any riot over any verdict will be short lived, but who is to say there will even be one, this case(what case) will be dismissed by the judge and George Zimmerman can go on with his life and get millions from the MSM in a lawsuit which I am sure there are lawyers preparing as I write this response!
Zimmerman seems thoroughly innocent of a charge of second-degree murder. Given that this case is very political, and was designed (or seized upon) as a way of furthering the Left’s agenda – in turn by exploiting the victim narrative of Afro-Americans in 2012 – it will be interesting to see how Obama’s current down-turned fortunes affect it.
If Obama and Holder start to internalize the likelihood that they will be leaving Washington, will it make them lose interest in the case (I am guessing that Holder communicated with the DA there in some way)? Or, will they conclude that only racism and a Mossad conspiracy are responsible for American voters turning away from this Administration? This seems more likely.
They lose little by pursuing the case – publicity presumably stirs the base up until Election day. If Zimmerman is convicted, it will feel good even if they are out of office and making millions with speeches and books. If he is acquitted, the resultant riots will be some satisfaction.
Obama seems to me to have gone whole-hog with his endorsement of same-sex marriage. I was surprised by this move, regardless of the millions it brought in. I think that decision to ‘go gay’ will cost him many votes. Combined with the ‘war on women’ campaign, the two issues are probably responsible for his decline in popularity in recent weeks. Along with the economy.
I wish Obama-Holder a long vacation. I would actually rather see Zimmerman acquitted and riots than to see him railroaded, given the evidence. Martin tried to kill him, from all appearances.
People have now seen through the lies from the MSM and Obama and will reject any further BS from them and this will also cause the landslide defeat of Obama (the 17 million that did not vote in 2008 WILL VOTE as will myself.
It is almost Obama and the MSM know what a failure he and his administration are that they are going full out to twist the truth and omit or commit lies daily, what else do they have?
They have nothing to redeem them selves, when most of those that did not vote in the last election show up this year a landslide is coming, whatever happens after that is up to those armed citizens and law enforcement as well as the military, don’t worry be happy, this is from a Viet Nam Vet to all you guys!
Ekemine, my Nigerian friend, asked me “Why do they call themselves ‘African-Americans’ when they haven’t even been to Africa, much less come from there?”
I had no answer for him.
The answer of course is that they are blacks or colored. There is no such race as African American they are either African who are clack in skin color or American living in the slums with black skin and tend to be criminals, there it has been said, and I do not trust one of them I do not know, this is why I carry a concealed weapon at all times!
The sad thing is I bet Hispanics still overwhelmingly vote for 0bama this November.
Not the ones I work with and you might be surprised on election day of the landslide after the 17 million that did not vote in the 2008 election do vote, no more white guilt but outrage over this incompetence, plus the lying and blaming everything on something else…Obama is gone and will soon be a bad memory!
Zimmerman had every right to leave his truck, he lived in the gated community and had every right to use its common areas, and was on the Neighborhood Watch. There is no law against anything he did before the confrontation. The dispatcher NEVER told him “not to leave his truck” at all – the truck isn’t ever mentioned until AFTER GZ lost Martin and was going back to it and giving the dispatcher instructions for the police as to his location so he could meet them.
That post-contact conversation went on for roughly two minutes before being interrupted by the confrontation, which seems to have been initiated by Martin. There is no evidence at all that Zimmerman started it. And in that time Martin had plenty of time just to go home, his Dad’s girlfriend’s condo was only 70 yards away. Even at a brisk but unhurried walk, that’s 45 seconds to safety.
Martin HAD to have doubled back to confront Zimmerman. There is no other explanation based on the evidence.
How stupid are the media and the politicians and the public NOT to understand that whenever Al Sharpton shows up on a scene, it’s a phony incident designed to shake some cash loose from somebody? 100% of the time – even without other virtue, Al is nothing if not consistent.
Estragon @43 wrote:
‘Martin HAD to have doubled back to confront Zimmerman. There is no other explanation based on the evidence.’
Thank you for having the courage to state that clearly. I wish others would as well. It’s worthy of being repeated:
Martin HAD to have doubled back to confront Zimmerman. There is no other explanation based on the evidence.
Best regards, Peter Warner.
Allow me one point to refute with Bob Owen’s post: Why should Trayvon’s death death be considered a tragedy? If an innocent life was lost, we would rightly consider it a tragedy, but here all indications are that a violent predator attacked a responsible man with intent to injure and possibly murder. That attack was resisted and defeated. Isn’t that a good thing?
I was going to make the same point. It’s not a tragedy when a would-be killer is killed in self-defense!
It’s tragic in that some kid who could have made something of himself ended up choosing a stupid option and getting killing. It’s tragic, because I seriously doubt Trayvon was some irredeemable sociopath, and if he hadn’t made the stupid choices he did, he might have turned out to be decent person once he matured. I knew people who wrecked their cars through stupidity and died around that age – it almost happened to me.
It’s also tragic that George is going have to deal with the fact that he killed someone. Even if he had never been prosecuted, it would still be there. I know someone who was involved in a car accident with a motorcyclist. My friend was not at fault, and he tried however he could to save the guy, but he is still haunted by the victim dying over 3 decades ago.
This case is tragic, but it is not murder, not a hate crime, and probably not even a crime.
Anyone want to bet Holder will not charge Zimmerman? I’d guess sometime in October.
This MMA position is a metaphor for what Obama, his Congress, & czars are doing to America.
The American Electorate endure the same prosecution as Zimmermen when they remove a corrupt Democrat lackey.
That is exactly what I thought too…Barry Soetero slamming the heads of already fallen bitter clinger taxpayers into the cement, and no signs of stopping.
The other thing is, what does The Won plan for us when we’re laying in our own blood; unconscious and exposed under a dark rain? I’ll bet Hate crime accusations are up next, for anyone who won’t vote for another 4 years of the marvelously creased pants Man Who Never Was.
I think you’re on to something with the “hate crime” charge for anyone that doesn’t vote for him. They’re already trying to make suckers cower with the “racist” meme.
I can hear Holder’s echoing pronouncement in Congress right now.
There’s literally no dirty tactic or costly endeavor beyond their boorish imagination.
“Stand Your Ground” is not the same as “Lay on the Ground”
Stand Your Ground law does not apply.
The smallest minority is the individual. Let’s focus on protecting the rights of that minority.
Anyone out there who is *not* an individual, please raise your hand.
*”A ‘right’ is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a man’s freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a man’s right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action—which means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)
“The concept of a “right” pertains only to action—specifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men” (“Man’s Rights,”The Virtue of Selfishness, 93; Ayn Rand).
In the Trayvon Martin case, President Barack Hussein Obama, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Eric Holder, stirred up rabid hate against whites. These elites considered it UNACCEPTABLE that George Zimmerman, a white man, should defend himself from violent attack by a black.
George Zimmerman and his entire family will always have to be in hiding for fear of their lives because Mr. Zimmerman, a white, defended himself, from a violent black attacker.
Has justice gone from our nation?
Many people are expressing in comments on the internet, their fear that the government is deliberately stirring up racist hate in order to provoke a race war, where the administration will declare martial law, forever DESTROYING our FREEDOM and human rights.
May we NEVER lose our freedom!
All the known facts support Mr. Zimmerman’s claim. To convict, the Prosecution must prove depraved aggressive conduct. The witness account, the wounds on both men, if not rebutted, clearly show to any reasonable objective person that Zimmerman was within seconds of death in combat. (This is the reason that MMA fights have quick, knowledgeable referees. Martial arts is the skill of killing. Death is always near.)
The 911 operator’s words, the investigating police officer’s judgment, have no legal weight in this criminal charge, lacking more facts. They do point to a lack of judgment on Zimmerman’s part, and should lead to some soul searching on the rules, qualifications, and equipment of neighborhood watchmen.
The legislative author of the Florida Stand Your Ground law has stated that, from the revealed facts, that this law has no bearing on this case. Self defense is the applicable law: the use of reasonable, minimal force in defense of life, in a fight to the death.
I do not agree with Mr. Owens in that a sea change has occurred in the MSM reporting. They are now providing facts, frantically back pedaling from their slanted reporting two months ago. The people who appear to have walked out on thin ice are the prosecutor and the US DoJ. Politics, or racial hatred, seem to be their only motivation. Or they know more than me. Everything will come out; I can wait. The wheels of justice grinds slowly, but they grind fine.
HATE without a cause. This is how bad black hate for whites has become. A hate that is being DELIBERATELY stirred up by the elites.
wnd.com: GROWING RACIAL DIVIDE
Call for crackdown on black-on-white terror
Baltimore neighborhood now ‘dangerous place for residents and visitors’
A state lawmaker in Maryland, concerned about “black youths” who are “terrorizing” Baltimore’s upscale Inner Harbor, wants the governor to send in state troopers to make the area safe.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/05/call-for-crackdown-on-black-on-white-terror/?cat_orig=politics
Everyone seems to be ignoring one critical fact. George was right where he was supposed to be and doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing. He was the Neighborhood Watch captain. His duty was to patrol the area and confront strangers with seemingly no good business being in the area. He was supposed to get out of his truck and confront this stranger. There had been a rash of burglaries in the area recently. He had every duty to investigate. When the police told him to get back in his car, everyone assumes he didn’t but continued to pursue Martin. But what if he was in fact headed back to his car and was jumped from behind by the resentful Martin? Am I missing something?
And George’s actions seem entirely justified in hindsight. Martin was no saint. He had an alleged assault in his background, and it turns out he was suspected of committing local burglaries, was suspended from school for having marijuana and burglary tools and unidentified jewelry items in his backpack.
What with the blather from the race hustlers and grievance mongers, and of course the compliant media you don’t have a chance to learn sufficient facts to be able to determine that Martin was apparently a young local thug walking through a wealthy neighborhood at night wearing a dark hoodie, and with burglary on his mind. That he was confronted in that effort by George Zimmerman doesn’t make George a criminal, but rather a solid citizen. Seems likely as not George was returning to his car as instructed and was jumped from behind by Martin, taken to the ground and pummeled by the youth. Witness accounts and descriptions of their respective injuries clearly demonstrate George was being badly beaten. That Martin caught a bullet in the chest for his efforts as George fought for his life seems entirely rational, and perhaps poetic justice.
Maybe statements George gave to the police that night or other evidence contradict the above, but based upon what facts are publicly available to date, George should not be facing criminal charges. He should be lauded for his actions in protecting the public from this young thug.
In the end, Martin got exactly what he solicited: A violent ending to his life. Funny how people bend and skew that into some ethereal eulogy about how his future (of dope-selling/using, stealing, assaulting and other crimes) was cut short by some “evil” (conscientious, protective, aware) “white” person.
The inability of people to see reality has become very glaring these past three and a half years and it makes me wonder if there’s something in the water. There seems to be no shortage of both ignorance and stupidity and of course, when combined, the double-whammy is crippling.
The media is now a full-blown arm of the socialist movement to stir public discord and to foment anger. Given that they pander to the largely ignorant and stupid, they sell their poison to get them riled up and then out in the streets, all based on a long-dead hypothesis that the 1960′s is still alive and causing racial discrimination.
But I’ll start with this: When I was active-duty military, I had a confrontation with a black fellow enlistee who walked up to me and said, “You don’t like me cuz I’m black” to which I responded, “No, I don’t like you because you’re an a**hole. I don’t care WHAT color you are. If you acted like a decent human-being instead of a scumbag everyday, you might be surprised at the result”. His eyes were big and he had no response. Maybe I used too many syllables. Maybe he couldn’t process what I had said that fit the racist world in his head. But this was 1981 when the black guys in our shop would intentionally separate themselves over to a corner of the breakroom and play cards until the work-orders came out.
They don’t want to be equal, they want superiority. They separate themselves voluntarily and look upon their fellow white humans with disgust and make it up in their heads that they are being kept down. Yet, they have never pondered how to advance in anything except through government action when tried-and-true paths to success have always been there.
There are more people in the nation who accept decent, polite, intelligent people than otherwise and color seldom, if ever, enters into the picture. My UPS driver is a black conservative. He is one of my favorite people. He always has a little time to chat and though our lives are very different, I get no sense of anger or bitterness from him. He’s funny, smart and decent. I like him. Isn’t that enough?
A true racist is not the one to fear it’s the one that’s in the closet that’s the most dangerous. I’ve dealt with racism before I joined the military, during and after. People are stupid everywhere. There is only one race the Human Race. There are just different skin color and ethnic backgrounds.
Post the Jimmy Hetes vs Nam Phan fight if you want to see ground and pound from the full mount. Kongo finshed al Turk from his guard, not the mount.
“the eyewitness the media would rather you never hear from”? You mean the eyewitness mentioned in, among others, the LA Times, Christian Science Monitor, CBS News, USA Today, and even NPR? And they did it the day before your post. Do some research before you whine about the “media”.
Blog essays don’t ordinarily bother with footnoting every exception to whatever issue is being aired. The thrust of the story, produced in the short form and updated as needed, is pumping the only air the King’s vacuum chamber ever gets –so the service is real.
George Z seems like a pretty good citizen. I think he would tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. I dunno –he just has that look. If nothing changes the facts that we know, if he were to be railroaded to prison on the basis of what we know, that would be a foul deed indeed. I think we ought not stand for it, and let the chips fall where they may.
For one thing, chips will fall where they may anyway, with the only difference being whether or not you make a fool of yourself running around trying to anticipate and catch ‘em so they don’t fall where they may.
And what then, you have an armload of chips, you don’t know what to do with them, you don’t even know why they shouldn’t be where without your intervention they would’ve fallen anyway, and now you look up and here comes a bunch more falling chips, and with your bad plan, you’re going to have to drop your load to catch the new chips –so they’re gonna end up on the ground anyway, if a little later, and with you a lot more exhausted.
here’s the dealio.. i’m white.. zimmerman is black/hispanic. i got no dog in this fight..
Good.
I don’t want to be on the same side as anyone who uses a word like “dealio”.
The fact of the matter here is a young wanna be gangsta got snuffed out before he caused more mayhem, why the MSM or LSM would try to indicate anything to the contrary is beyond belief! Get over it and forget lawsuits, it was a justifiable homicide in the act of self defense that just so happened to be because of use of deadly force instead of a stern talking to or a “Time out”, no this stupid kid got what he deserved and will not be able to pass the lesson learned on to any progeny he might have.
Hey gangstas guess what many of us are armed and you might just die as a consequence of your stupidity DO NOT ACT STUPIDLY as your hero soon to be non president!
Karma is coming down sooner than you think, the silent majority have had quite enough of this stuff!
George Zimmerman was an ordinary guy that lived in a community that has had a small crime spree and since there were not enough police to oversee what was going on added a “Neighborhood Watch” program so those interested in reducing or even trying to stop crime could call police and report suspicious activity.
Usually during the duties of such watchmen or women they might be required to notice the location and activity of those they do not know such as in this case. This is gonna be such a case and anything else is not justice but a lynching
Wow: Buddy Larsen! Where you been; been missing you. Keep coming back. JS
Why, thanks! I will –that was nice of you to say –naw the drought and wolfarz got me last summer and I fell out of the comments-writing habit. Hard to get it rolling again. Consarned ”work”! ‘Wolfarz’ is whut the untwang-cursed call ‘wildfires’. What finally blew ‘em out was the 49-state gale of laughter when Brother Perry went to campaignin’ for president –
Now if this witness instead of relying on police had gone to the scene and pulled a weapon and said stop or I shoot, the death may not have happened.
But we don’t want people with weapons, and we want to have the police called, who come after the fact and these are the results that happen. Strange isn’t it, that the police didn’t arrive that quickly when it was a suspicious person in the neighborhood, but were there so soon after a weapon fired. Confirming that police aren’t the ones that will be defending you in a crime situation but you better hope you are armed, or your neighbor is armed and willing to patrol your home area.
One question about this analysis… you’re describing a fight between equally matched fighters. What about when the one attempting to assume the dominant position weighs significantly less than the one being mounted? Additionally, if Martin was slamming his head into the sidewalk, what was he holding onto to do that? His ears? Wouldn’t there be some Zimmerman DNA in his fingernails in that case?
Lurker 60. Ever hear of Judo? Jiujitsu? where a lighter opponent can upset and ground a heavier man. Besides the negro uses sucker punch (ie: per Will Smith who threatens to sucker punch the reporter who kissed him) from behind which will knock a man down if delivered in a racial hate fury.
There would have been bruises to Zimmerman’s ears. Didn’t see any in the pictures.
There are (at least) three major differences in MMA:
The Referee is required to stop the fight if you are unable to defend yourself (either unconscious or merely unable.)
You can tap out if you wish (yelling “Help” 14 times would count.)
MMA events are held on a mat or canvas rather than on CONCRETE.
If you have a gun on you how do you get beat down. why would you even get close enough for someone to get the drop on you. But if you ran up on me in the middle of the night without identifying who you are I will do my best to rip your head off.
Every comment here is congratulating Zimmerman for killing a thug, dope dealer/user and everything else. I want to know what was Trayvon Martin doing that was illegal for Zimmerman to run up on and get beatdown before killing this so-called criminal. What crime was Trayvon committing? Because that evidence has yet to be produced.
“John’s” story has changed. He now says that they were wrestling and that TM was basically pinning GZ down. GZ’s face doesn’t show a MMA pummeling. He should look a lot worse. Gz’s injuries seem to be from one punch. It’s like TM wasn’t trying real hard after they hit the ground. GZ says at one point TM had his knees on GZ’s shoulders pinning him to the ground. I’m picturing Wayne on the Wonder Years tormenting Kevin. TM of course was not an ultimate fighter but just more punch from the mount position should have rearranged GZ’s face.
Unless of course GZ has the reflexes of a Jedi and picked off all of Tm’s punches. Z got a bit of a manhandling but nothing like he described.
Now if this witness instead of relying on police had gone to the scene and pulled a weapon and said stop or I shoot, the death may not have happened.
But we don’t want people with weapons, and we want to have the police called, who come after the fact and these are the results that happen. Strange isn’t it, that the police didn’t arrive that quickly when it was a suspicious person in the neighborhood, but were there so soon after a weapon fired. Confirming that police aren’t the ones that will be defending you in a crime situation but you better hope you are armed, or your neighbor is armed and willing to patrol your home area.
Barry,
GZ called the NON emergency line. The call was ginen a priority of 3.