The Crime of Committing ‘Contempt of Cop’
On July 16, 2011, PJ Media published my article titled “Contempt of Cop: What’s The Law Say About Photographing Police.” In that article, I provided this definition:
“Contempt of cop” is a play on words of the common legal term “contempt of court.” The latter refers to a judge holding someone responsible for conduct — usually in the courtroom — that is disrespectful or disruptive, that reflects blatant contempt for the law, the judge and his lawful authority. The former is similar. It refers to a cop’s reaction to the same kind of behavior by a citizen in their presence. In the best sense of the term, an officer’s attention will be attracted by someone who goes out of their way to irrationally and unnecessarily antagonize a police officer in a public setting. In such circumstances, it would be foolish for a police officer to allow that person to go unpunished lest their behavior encourage others to insult, even attack other officers.
Contempt of cop also applies to the worst instincts some police officers develop. In those cases, officers become “badge-heavy,” they begin to take matters personally. They become hypersensitive to any insult, real or imagined. They don’t consider the elements of the law, they take offense, act first and make up the rest later. Such officers are unpredictable and dangerous, not only to the public, but to their fellow officers who know that the bad will of the public is cumulative. Abuse the citizenry enough, and the officers who suffer for it — and some will suffer — will often be professionals, men and women of good will undeserving of their fates.
Since that article, another example of contempt of cop has arisen, and it involves the most common — and often the only — contact police have with the public: traffic stops.
According to Fox News, in December 2009, Erich Campbell noticed a police officer obviously running traffic radar parked near the Tampa International Airport. Campbell committed an egregious act of contempt of cop: he flashed his headlights at oncoming traffic to warn them of the speed trap. He was stopped and given a citation for “improper flashing of high-beams.” The cost? $101.00.
There is a happy ending to this morality tale: the citation was eventually dismissed and Campbell filed a class-action lawsuit against the state of Florida.
“Because the state was rolling the dice (with me),” he said. “They figured most people aren’t going to challenge it, and I think it’s about time someone actually did.”
Campbell estimates 2,600 other “highbeam-helpers” received summonses between 2005 and 2010. He says most simply chose to pay their fines.
“Someone has to stand up,” he says, referring to the tickets as a “huge money-maker” for the state, not to mention a “blatant violation of the right to free speech.”
Campbell characterized his suit as a free speech issue, saying that his flashing headlights were a means of communication with other drivers.
Thomas Ruskin, a former NYPD detective and current “police advocate,” begs to differ:
He has a definite different interpretation of the U.S. Constitution than I do. … And than most members of law enforcement. …
It’s [flashing high beams] illegal because you’re warning someone. It’s the same thing as saying, “run, here comes the cops,” you’re obstructing a cop from doing his lawful duty. …
He is aiding law-breakers. He is warning people who are speeding to slow down. His intent is to impede the police.
Captain Mark Brown of the Florida Highway Patrol sees things differently still:
We have told our people to stop issuing citations on that pending the outcome of the litigation.
This might seem to be a minor, even technical, quibble relating to an obscure law, but it touches on two matters of vital importance to the public: the relationship between the police and the public, and unfettered police discretion, AKA, contempt of cop.
Professional police officers understand that there are so many traffic laws — many broadly written — it is virtually impossible to drive without unintentionally breaking one or more of them. Understanding that the only personal contact the majority of the public will ever have with police officers is through a traffic stop, smart officers avoid hyper-technical enforcement of traffic laws, particularly the more obscure laws. They also avoid stretching laws to fit circumstances for which they were not intended, Erich Campbell’s citation being a case in point.
Officers can, if they wish, cite citizens for traveling two or three miles per hour over the posted speed limit. They can cite people for having a taillight out rather than issuing a warning, even though they realize the driver had no idea they were breaking the law. Smart, professional officers simply don’t do this sort of thing because they know it’s not worth it. There are more than enough drivers blatantly speeding, running stop signs, and committing a wide variety of unmistakable violations. Citing people doing their best to obey the law is foolish and unprofessional. It angers citizens — including everyone the cited driver tells, and they will tell many others — and greatly reduces respect for the police and the law. The negative effect most related to this particular case is that it does not, in any way, enhance traffic safety, which is the ostensible reason for the existence of traffic laws. How can those doing their best to drive safely do better?
The ultimate Contempt of Cop trial will begin November 9 2011 at the Canton Municipal Court at Canton City Hall. The William Bartlett Criminal Trial for failing to Notify an officer, who prevented him from notifying, that he was carrying a concealed weapon.
People who can are encouraged to attend the trial as a show of support for William, and to express as much contempt of cop as possible toward Officer Daniel Harles.
Do you have a link with more information?
http://www.cantonrep.com/carousel/x643159054/Bartletts-family-leads-protest-against-Canton...
That was huge. That “officer” needs to be behind bars and banned from owning any sort of weaponry for life.
I’m sorry, the ticket was dismissed, he didn’t have to pay, and at that point I’m sure the cops know this sort of thing isn’t going to stick…DROP it at that point…
This guy is just trying to make some money off the state dept…his POINT is made already.
Truck drivers have been reporting the location of “bears” on their CBs forever. Especially in states with a 55 mph limit on interstates. It’s part of our culture.
Police around here just leave their cars in likely places. Their windows are tinted, and you can’t tell if occupied until you’re right on them. Now, I’m just waiting for someone to jack the car!!! lol
Something like this?
http://www.wtae.com/news/28721980/detail.html
Remember Al Capone? They put him in prison for tax-code violations when they couldn’t get him for anything else. Now, it’s not apparent to me how a cop could have known that Mr. Campbell, driving by, was a sue-a-holic a**hole, but he must have, somehow. Now, lotsa folks love to point out how this or that outrage would’ve scandalized the Founders. Of course the author of this article would know that under the doctrine of Sovereign Immunity, incorporated into the Constitution with the English Common Law, and governing until after WW II, this guy could not sue the state for this, or much of anything else. Considering the cost in money and officers’ time involved in this circlejerk, we see yet again the Founders’ superior wisdom. As I see the author pointed out in his article, there are so many traffic laws that it’s hardly possible to back out of your driveway without breaking one. I’d expect Mr. Scofflaw Campbell to be finding out all about these obscure provisions almost every day from now on. Anyhow, if you go out of your way to make yourself my enemy, I’m gonna make sure you pay.
Careful how you word your composition in first person while second amendment protection yet exists. When abuse becomes undeniable tyrannical choice of third person description may even be risky for retribution.
Documented history of highways crossing remote county areas used primarily by transient traffic and few local voters have long provided both county income and state and local police Christmas bonuses based on personal performance with victims cursing in another county or state. Since front line officers have little reversal option, ticket fixing becomes an inter county trading practice. Violations miraculously increase during the last days of fiscal accounting quarters with a hockey stick line graph providing evidence of quotas spread over a number of statutes as an attempt to conceal the corruption from a simple search of computer records. Chronology and GPS data are precise indicators of the common practice.
“…there are so many traffic laws that it’s hardly possible to back out of your driveway without breaking one.”
Actually, it’s illegal to back from a driveway into a traveled roadway in my state. And for damn good reasons. Really, not a bright thing to do.
I hate to break this to you, but “Sovereign Immunity” only applies to legal acts performed within the scope of the law and within the course of a state employee’s duties.
This means there is no sovereign immunity when, for example, a city councilman steals from the treasury, a high school coach sexually assaults a student, or a policeman knowingly violates someone’s rights.
In this case, the Florida Highway Patrol was given notice in 2005 the statutes upon which they were basing these tickets upon was not applicable to the violation. The statute the FHP was citing was a statute dealing with so called “light bars” on tap of vehicles. Clearly headlights and lightbars are not the same thing.
Here is part of a ruling in one such case:
The Court finds that Fla. Stat. 316.2397(7) does not prohibit a motorist from turning his or her headlights off and on, or turning his or her low beams to high beams, even if it is the motorist’s intent in so doing to “warn” other motorists of the presence of a law enforcement officer who may be using a speed measuring device to “clock” vehicular traffic.
Despite having court rulings go against them, the FHP continued to issue the tickets. Despite knowing as a matter of law, the FHP was not legally able to issue the tickets based on the statute, they continued to do so.
Because most people did not fight the tickets, the state raked in over $1 million on this citation alone.
Frankly sir, your assertion that Sovereign Immunity covers the state in such actions gives the state powers which the founding fathers never intended – that of breaking the law and stealing with impunity and without recourse from the citizen.
“Sovereign Immunity” protects the government from frivolous lawsuits and actions. It does not protect it against actions which are brought forth due to the government’s knowingly illegal actions.
Unfortunately, the man filing the class action suit doesn’t have a dog in that fight. He didn’t pay a fine and he has no business in the case.
This sounds like making a mountain out of a mole hill to me. Even if the suit is successful, the only person who will gain is the lawyer. And the taxpayers for the State of Florida will be paying for both sides.
On the contrary, every citizen in Florida will gain, and potentially every citizen in the nation.
The molehill here is the hundred dollar fine.
The mountain here is a mountain on which every patriot should be willing to die, that is, the police acting illegally, and attempting to CREATE a crime out of an action which is NOT a crime, simply because they are
offended by that action.
Stop and think for a moment about what kind of nation we will have if we do NOT stop this slide into a police state, for that is exactly what is going on.
If the police can make a crime up out of thin air, simply on their own whim, what else do we have but a police state?
BUT Mark, he didn’t pay anything, the ticket was dismissed…he is definitely a mole in a very tall hill.
The most common example that I know of here in California is not just the flashing of lights as a warning to posted-speed violators, but of Spanish-language sign-wavers warning of DUI/licence-check roadblocks, to “illegals.” I’ve never seen a sign in English, and I’ve never seen a sign-waver seen approached by a police officer.
Ultimately, every “law” is enforced by the barrel of a gun. Every infraction of these statutes carries with them the ultimate threat of bodily harm, via the power of higher authority represented by the weapon a police officer carries. But more important it is the system of government and the people who rule within it who are perpetrators of creeping tyranny, where every aspect of life, the entire sphere of our lives is effected by law upon law upon law, until no freedom and liberty exists.
The root of it all involves the quest for power over we the people, and the prosperity that belongs to us.
Look no further than our elected and unelected officials in the federal government. From obama on down. It is greed without end, a culture of corruption insidious and odious. People so obnoxious that laws do not apply to them any longer, but we the people are held in contempt, contempt for existing.
Look at project fast and furious. An egregious act of treason and tyranny, of high crimes, of murder, by the very people who are there to protect us.
Leadership begins at the top.
Yeah, and who has the right to tell you that you have to drive on the right side of the road? Nobody in the UK does, and their traffic moves okay. Say ‘hi’ to Ron Paul and Robert Welch out there on planet “Mungo”.
What “side” of the road you drive on is codefied in the Vehicle Code.
I have no idea why the Brits decided to drive on the left, but they do, as do the Aussies, Indians, Paks, Japanese, and I believe the New Zealanders and South Africans – mostly it’s a British Commonwealth thing leftover from Empire.
Also, the Swedes used to, but converted to the Continental standard of driving on the right back in the 60′s.
A bit of relevant trivia: Driving on the left side of the road hearkens back to the days of armed men on horseback. Riding with your sword arm (the right in most people) facing opposing traffic made it easier to engage in combat. =^[.]^=
Thanks for the trivia/history lesson!
This from the same guy who posted just above threatening and encouraging police harassment of a guy for the outrageous act of daring to challenge tickets. Must be a cop, probably one who has or will retire in his 50s with a pension that the rest of us will be working to 80 to pay for. Keep the gun holstered, Jacobite, you have it pretty good.
By the way, in my small town of a few thousand folks, we have more than 20 full time police officers making an average of about $145,000 with great pensions to boot. They’ve never prevented a real crime but they sure do write some tickets, especially on folks who are just driving through. Don’t worry though because our neighboring towns return the favor so we all pay our fair share to support the ever growing government union police forces, who spend their time mostly writing tickets for speeding on roads with limits set intentionally too low and campaigning for Democrats. God bless America. Land of the free. Yeah, right.
You remind me of a friend I had in high school. Straight-laced conservatives we both were, and we had no use for hippies and the like.
Still, I had read the Founders, and apparently he had not.
One day in class our resident hippy was arguing with the teacher about something, and my friend leaned over and said in a very superior tone, “You know, he’s a rebel.”
I reminded him that our Founding Fathers were rebels. That appeared to confuse him.
“People so obnoxious that laws do not apply to THEM any longer”.
You mean, like the adam henrys flashing their lights?
Maybe cops do not understand they have become the most willingest of useful dupes.
If this tyranny breathing down our throats comes to past, cops best understand they are going to need all the friends they can get.
Maybe we will all just resign and let y’all slaughter each other in that moral chaos you value so highly. When you feel threatened, just call a politician, a lawyer or a reporter.
Go ahead and resign. You’ll be doing us and your department all a big favor. Typical liberal saying your the one who is going to save humanity by tyranny of the state.The people have a strong moral compass. It’s the state and it’s interference in the minutiae of daily living that puts us at risk, both from the authorities and each other. So,resign and go find a job bullying somebody somewhere else, like North Korea, Cuba or Venezuela.There are job openings for qualified applicants in every fascist dictatorship.
What makes you think White Tiger is a bully or a liberal?
Get your wording right when talking to these 2-year-olds. You’re gonna go “John Galt” on everybody.
dogman, I only wish I would recognize the event, when you are in trouble with some burgler ( for example ) and you call your congressman…NOW THAT WOULD BE A LAUGHING MATTER.
the reason cops don’t show up as you put it is the fact that they are too few to handle the job. because of lack of funding or whatever…think about it, yeah there are people out there to fill the positions, but there is no money to pay them.
These guys are just like you and I…they don’t get paid what they are worth!!! (However, if you are making minimum wage Mr. Dogman, you are getting more than your worth…)
You go ahead and resign. If that’s your attitude you shouldn’t be a cop anyway. When rape or murder is only seconds away, cops are only minutes or hours away. I have yet to see one show up in less than 45 minutes any time I’ve needed to call one. And they’ve never found the person who caused me to need to call. So fine. Go ahead and resign. Go get a job where you can do something not in power over innocent people because your attitude sucks.
Chris or you say all police officers take 45 min to respond? Do a ‘ride-a-long’ with your home town department to see what they go through.
The police do nothing about property crimes except to fill out a report. There is no such thing as apprehending thieves, much less recovering stolen property and returning it to the owner.
Ahh, the martyr complex, combined with the “if we don’t play by my rules I’ll take my toys and go home” complex, soon to be followed by the “nobody appreciates me” complex, and finalized by the “I’ll hold my breath till I turn purple then you’ll all be sorry” complex.
Go ahead and resign, ossifer. Maybe the rest of us will get lucky and a legitimate peace officer, not some law enforcer (read: enforcer, hired enforcer, punk), will be hired to replace you.
Your point taken. I’ll just call Smith & Wesson.
Please do. The only time I’ve ever call for police intervention, I was told no officers were available. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. Unless they can make a buck or two in fines.
Please do resign, white tiger. Where I live I have seen first hand and up close the endemic corruption and unwillingness of the authorities to not only do their job correctly but to outright lie, file false reports and let criminals walk away unchallenged.. I have no more faith in the “law” enforcement authorities and the less of you there are the better off we will be. And this attitude comes from a guy who has a cop as a brother. As far as I am concerned you’re simply revenue enhancement and fear installment devices of the tyrannical state. Luckily there are a precious few of you worth your badge. We will remember this when the revolution starts.
that should say not only NOT do their job correctly
When about half of the Camden (NJ) police force was laid off recently, many locals said crime would decrease as a result. Reason: Camden cops are so totally corrupt, they’re the primary criminal element.
“…The first city police services were established in Philadelphia in 1751,[21] Richmond, Virginia in 1807,[22] Boston in 1838,[23] and New York in 1845…” (Wiki)
So, for a very long time, in most of the country, there was no organized “police force” – who says that complete chaos would result from citizens being responsible for policing themselves once again?
For one thing, the only laws that would be enforced are the ones that matter re violent crime, and municipalities would have to do without the revenue stream they have come to rely upon from tickets for the nit-picking/nanny-state intrusions into personal conduct that is mostly of a victim-less nature.
Wow. You really stepped in it. Loads of responses.
You completely missed the point of the article. Public service means Public SERVICE. You are supposed to agree with the article. You are supposed to decry police abuse of powers. You are supposed to acknowledge how their bad behavior tars the reputation of the mostly good police. You are supposed to acknowledge how it turns the citizenry against the police, making your job tougher and more dangerous. You are supposed to admit that there are some bad apples spoiling the whole bunch. You are NOT supposed to close ranks against the people who pay your salaries.
In all my life, I have never found a cop to be friendly or helpful. At best, they are bored bureaucrats. There is never an earnest desire to help. They are outwardly suspicious of everyone. The citizens are ‘the enemy’, not the purpose. It’s like they say in business, “Customers are not a problem; They are the REASON we are here.” It is the difference between private and public sector. The police forget WE are the reason they exist.
As to the article: “Thomas Ruskin, a former NYPD detective and current “police advocate,” begs to differ:” This is typical of the attitude. Hey, dumbass, the guy already won his own defense. The JUDGE agreed with him. You do not get to differ with him. He’s the boss. Also, there is a very good reason they decided not to do any more of these citations until the case is settled. Because their legal guys have told them they will very likely lose. Yet you cling to your stupid opinion. You do not set policy, dumbass. You enforce policy. You do not get an opinion. You are the hired help. Dumbass.
If someone can’t think more clearly than to use false alternates[1], perhaps your authority needs to be cut way back.
And when the cities stop using traffic enforcement as revenue streams, the police can go back to being “Peace Officers” rather than hired thugs for the state/locality.
And then, too, the cities might stop using traffic codes and design to SCREW UP traffic [2] and use them to make travel more efficient. Even more, the localities might think twice about the 8,000 a year they kill [3] in their insane pursuit of revenue.
[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_alternative
[2] http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8831, http://www.cato.org/store/index.asp?fa=ProductDetails&method=cats&scid=43&pid=1441366
[3] http://www.bhspi.org/BPpapers/papers.html (Best Highway Safety Practices Inst).
Documented history of highways crossing remote county areas used primarily by transient traffic and few local voters have long provided both county income and state and local police Christmas bonuses based on personal performance with victims cursing in another county or state. Since front line officers have little reversal option, ticket fixing becomes an inter county trading practice. Violations miraculously increase during the last days of fiscal accounting quarters with a hockey stick line graph providing evidence of quotas spread over a number of statutes as an attempt to conceal the corruption from a simple search of computer records. Chronology and geographical location are precise indicators of the common practice. Where do yoou fit in.
Statistics prove that the presence of the “shall not be infringed” clause in the second amendment deters both crime and moral chaos. Neither crime nor morality can be effectively addressed by any form of the government attached corrupt parasites you mentioned calling in your absence. Since dueling is out maybe you can find some honorable means of sweat equity existence without the diabetic risk of a professionally attached doughnut ritual.
White Tiger- Please resign. Most of us would feel much safer if you no longer had a badge and gun.
Actually, what’ll happen is all the law-abiding citizens will just shoot the criminals on sight.
The bloodshed will be quick.
And I won’t have to put up with cops riding my ass halfway across town waiting for me to screw up and “drift over the fog-line” (yes, I got pulled over for that once).
Yes, resign, then we can start to refill yours and your peers postilions with those who see police work as Peace Officers, not hired thugs for the legislature/bureaucracy.
You forget WHITE TIGER – cops don’t come running when you call them. They’re not here to protect us… merely to keep the general peace, and even that statement is questionable. As they say in DC “Protection for me but not for thee”.
If you doubt me, go do some homework on that Louisianna fool of a mayor Nagin and his “gun appropriations by cop” during hurricane Katrina (he was the one who said he’d like to see a more “chocolate” New Orleans this time around).
I know there are good cops (my uncle was one for 30+ yrs, and my best friend’s hubby was a biker cop) but they are outnumbered IMHO and from what I’ve seen in the last 2-3 yrs, I wouldn’t trust a cop if my life depended on it.
Living in TX, I’ve managed to implement plans to protect and house and feed my family and I have NO PROBLEM using my “protection” equipment to make sure no one takes advantage of my planning. The will be no “moral chaos” here… only Bible-based Christian Morality.
Your attitude is typical of the “Bully with a Badge” syndrone. Resigning would be a public service on your part, which is why you’ll never do it.
I’ve met quite a few cops. Most of them are pretty good guys. However, there are plenty of bad cops out there and other cops let them get away with it. To me, cops are only as good as the bad cops they allow to remain on the force. If you tolerate corruption or excessive force, you’re no better than the cops doing the bad acts.
It used to be very common for ordinary citizens to respect the cops. Now, there is a lot of distrust. Clean up your act and your department and maybe, in time, you’ll regain the trust.
Maddox has an important take on the subject of law enforcement perception management. I’d quote, but it’s better taken as a whole.
http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=message_to_cops
It is amusing when the assertion that Campell was “obstructing a cop from doing his lawful duty (to bring in revenue?),” is applied but nobody considers the opposite and that is Campell doing his civic duty and getting others to comply with the law by not speeding.
Oh, please. I’m as glad as anyone when someone warns me of a speed trap, but the goal of traffic enforcement is not to slow people down at this one place at this one moment but rather to get people to obey the speed limit at all places and at all times. Unless you want to have cops watching you in all places and at all times, they have to keep you from knowing where they are looking for speeders at any given moment.
Nonsense. The goal of speed traps is revenue. Always was, always will be.
Excuse me?
My last ticket was for 32 in a 25 zone.
The police officer situated himself between the crest of a hill and the sign that said 45 mph.
Guess what, the speed limit doesn’t change when you see the new sign, but when you actually pass the new speed limit sign.
Don’t even try to say the officer situated himself where he did for public safety – he was generating revenue because he knew people would start accelerating when they saw the sign giving a higher speed limit.
Mind you, that cop convinced me, I have avoided that town (and every business in it) since. And so have quite a few friends.
Good for you! This crap happens all the time in small, cash strapped towns. Some years ago a good friend of mine took a road trip down to Louisiana, He and his wife were sight seeing so they were already driving slow. A cop stopped them and ticketed them for ostensibly driving 26 mph in a 25 mph zone. My buddy (an engineer and committed motor head) asked to see the radar. The cop refused but said he could take it up with the Justice of the Peace. So he followed the cop the JOP’s office. Guess what? The cop WAS the JOP! My friend’s great sin was having NM plates on his car in a small town in rural Louisiana.
When police are being used as revenue producing agents rather than serving and protecting citizens, I have nothing but contempt for them.
Well, well, well. The cops gave it away. Speed limits are not about safety after all.
Would be an interesting statistical study…my bet is by flashing lights they are only “impeding” the collection of fines because in fact the average speed of cars passing that location is lower if everyone did than if no one did and they just wrote the tickets. Thus …by fining people who do this the police are impeding public safety.
When I flash my lights, I’m warning other drivers about potential hazards such as deer on the side of the road or someone changing a tire on the shoulder. A temporary weigh station or speed trap could be a road hazard and I let my fellow drivers know about it.
The police do not fine people. Honest.And, did what? When we see someone being cited, we slow down; not speed up.If we help others break the law, we are breaking the law. Its called “aiding and abetting”. Got it?
So by your logic, someone flashing their lights is encouraging someone to speed? Not likely. What they are doing is encouraging them to obey the speed limit, which even if it’s to avoid a ticket producing speed trap is still obeying the law, is it not?
You, as a policeman do not get to decide what is lawful and what is unlawful, that is up for a court to decide. Laws are created by a lawfully elected body of representatives to a legislative body.
You are a functionary. You’re personal interpretation of what is lawful is irrelevant and dangerous when you’re allowed to apply such ideas without strict oversight.
If you are indeed a police officer, do yourself and the public a favor and resign before you harm someone and or harm comes to yourself by way of your attitude.
so flashing the lights to warn others to slow down because of an impending speed trap breaks the law how? Actually white tiger you should not resign your position as a police officer. Your ability to cogitate in a logical manner seems to be within the average level of the officers I have run across and I am fairly certain gainful employment outside of law enforcement or playing a role along the lines of corky in life goes on is probably beyond your abilities.
white tiger, Got it! What an attitude! You have clearly divided the world into us (cops) and them (the rest of the citizenry). You don’t get IT at all. That attitude of entitlement is what makes ordinary law abiding citizens mistrustful of all cops, because we never know when we are going to run into one like you. Unfortunately I think you are in the majority. You are not the hero you believe your self to be.
I have dealt with a lot of cops and I have come to the conclusion that a high percentage of them likely have personalty types identical to the criminals they are supposed to catch. There are two main differences between cops and criminals: 1. cops have figured out that as a cop they can be a bully and push people around and not only get away with it but get PAID for it rather than endlessly looking over their shoulder, and 2. criminals know that they, themselves, are not very nice people; cops, on the other hand,think they are superior to “the other” meaning the rest of us.
I say this as one who for most of my life sided with the cops even when video showed them beating some one mercilessly for no apparent reason or they accidentally shot the wrong person and then the investigation showed they acted appropriately.
But when I ended a bad relationship I was falsely accused six times of domestic violence related felonies and misdemeanors. Cops were happy to write false reports and lie on the witness stand, while prosecutors with the district attorney’s office had no problem putting cops on the witness stand knowing that they were going to lie from the minute they swore to tell the truth until they stepped down from the stand. They had no problem doing this even though there wasn’t a shred of evidence that any crime had been committed. I expended all of my resources defending myself against these false charges. I defended myself pro se on some and was defended by a public defender on others. On every charge I was either acquitted or the charges were dismissed allowing them to be sealed. Had there been any integrity in “the system” this would not have happened. The jury by one’s peers truly is the last remnant of the government by, of and for the people.
Why some cops think that lying in wait in the weeds like a dog to ambush your prey is preferable to simply making a law enforcement presence known as a warning to would be speeders escapes me.
If you truly just want the roads to be safer did you consider that the light flashers might be on your side by getting people to slow down?
So what’s it called when cops drive 15 over the posted speed limit, and change lanes without signaling, and ride one foot off of everyone’s bumper on their way to lunch?
Donut Patrol?
Around here, that’s called, “standard procedure”.
Actually, when I see someone being cited I sped up because I know your revenue collecting ass is occupied. When I see lights flashed at me on the other hand… then I slow down.
You punk revenue collector for State… Good Citizen flashing lights …. slows people down far better than you.
Understand White Kitten?
Most laws, if not idiotic in conception, are asinine in implementation.
I would be more concerned about the laws preventing videotaping. Cops have their names on their uniforms; they are not masked secret police whose identities need to be shrouded. If cops’ behavior was always recorded, we could throw the book at the slime who make false reports of police brutality (while removing from authority those few bad cops who do give the Law a bad name).
Intelligent people wait until they are out of eye shot…
Just being seen keeps speeding and the like down, though it does not generate any revenue.
A population of cars on the road will produce an ever-changing distribution of speeds. It’s human nature and physics and math. A speed limit simply can’t work.
If the goal of speed traps is to improve public safety, then the law should encourage flashing of headlights. If the goal is more revenue, well, you know how it goes.
People (except the major-league morons) slow down for obvious safety warnings like big signs saying road work ahead. Perhaps the police should advertise where their speed traps are. Maybe doing so will slow down traffic and more likely catch the drivers most eager to disobey the law.
Hogwash. They work quite well in many countries. When the punishment is harsh and swift (as it is in some places), people obey speed limits.
Does that mean that all cars travel at the exact same speed? Of course not. Who ever said that it does?
“He is aiding law-breakers. He is warning people who are speeding to slow down. His intent is to impede the police.”
Aiding law-breakers by encouraging them to obey the law? How Orwellian.
Bingo. Nicely put.
From Thomas Ruskin, the esteemed NYPD cop’s own statement, “He is warning people who are speeding to slow down.”
And, what, then is the ultimate objective of catching people on radar and writing citations?
A) To make sure the driver gets a lecture and a ticket from a cop?
B) To accumulate more income and cash to the county/state coffers?
C) To allow cops to stop the pretty girls and ask them out on a date?
D) To ultimately get people to slow down and be safety-conscious?
If you picked D, then you are a good, conscientious citizen. For one thing, people generally do try to help the police and they do so in remarkable ways, like trying to give detailed descriptions of lawbreakers. Ever see “America’s Most Wanted”? How many very bad people have been caught because of tips from viewers?
No, officer Ruskin, your ego has gotten way too big. People flashing their lights to oncoming traffic is neither unsafe nor illegal. At the very bottom of it, it’s simple “gamesmanship” and if the officer is too stupid to realize that he’s not nabbing anyone on radar because they are flashing their lights, then he’s also too stupid to realize that the GOAL of his standing there with a radar gun is actually being met. ie: Traffic is slowing down.
And by the way, I don’t even want to express my disgust at how many times while driving the speed limit on the freeway that a cop has blown my doors off and left me in the dust without so much as his emergency flashers on.
And the excuse I hear when I ask them about such things, “I can do that because I’ve attended special driver training”. Really? Can I show you my certificates from all the racing driving schools and other special driving schools I’ve been to so that I can do 85 in a 55 zone too? Would you feel just as confident in your diving at 225mph as I do? I doubt it. So that argument is moot. Obey the damned law, like everyone else, then employ your “special driver training” when you’re on a call with your blue lights going.
And I can only laugh at the news reports, about two or three a year, about a cop who wrecked his cruiser and the circumstances of the crash are fishy. That is, it’s very questionable that they were “in pursuit” of anyone because there’s no radio transmission from that officer to say they were in chase.
We have a growing number of cops who ignore the laws they are sworn to uphold. Not all, but many and I think the number is getting larger. A friend of mine, he’s a cop…we went to lunch…he drove. We were doing 60mph in a 45. When I commented on it, he said, “You wanna see 90?”. That, understandably, torqued my nut. If a cop isn’t going to obey speed laws, why should I, right?
Because I’ll get the ticket. So, who’s going to set the example?
Lately I’ve been wondering if there’s any good reason there shouldn’t be tracking and monitoring devices installed on every marked law enforcement vehicle, with the records made public after some period, say a couple weeks to a couple months.
We taxpayers pay a hell of a lot of money for those fancy police-special hot rods, especially with all the high-tech equipment added in. Tracking is relatively very inexpensive, and allow the public to review a basic record of the responsible use of the resources we’re compelled to provide.
We should be able to know, after the fact, when and where police were speeding, and why. We should also know when, where, and why they were parked.
SG-1, I’ll put my bets on you being the safer driver any day, at higher speeds than the policeman. I work for an auto racing publication and going to events, etc. have been driven by race drivers on regular roads … many years ago, going to a wedding, legendary driver Dick Brooks drove us to the reception through the streets of Philly … never in my life have I gone so quickly while passing in and out of so many cars and so effortlessly – it was amazing watching him drive. It wasn’t that we were breaking the speed limit more than most people do every day (5-10 mph), it was the obvious skills of a professional high speed driver. That’s not to say every race driver is as skilled, but the big boys probably are, if Dick Brooks was any indication! If you can drive 200 mph without crashing into others, I guess you can handle the regular roads at higher speeds too! lol!
Oh, so certain people should be licensed to break speed limits? Of course, they’d have to display some kind of sticker so police officers would know not to pull them over. And the sticker would have to be issued by the DMV after the person displayed his superior driving skills to some bureaucrat. And there we are again with a state official. Don’t break this to your friends, but life gets a lot more complicated when they take you out of your crib.
So nice to hear a “progressive” unapologetically cheer for the police state.
Please, Jocobite, tell us, what should be done with a genetically inferior person? If they know that they are impeding the flow of society simply by existing, do they not have an obligation to commit suicide? Just because someone is on the wrong side of perfection does not mean they require prosecution.
There are a plethora of reasons why lawbreaking happens. When you create a glut of laws that stifle society’s vitality, lawbreakers come in lots of shapes and sizes. No one here is advocating special treatment for anyone. Adults realize that the police state we are slowly but surely building is unsustainable. The Constitution, as any adult would read it, forbids it.
Jacobite, I don’t think catt was advocating anything of the sort. He was talking about skill sets.
Why do comedians often use driving as a source for their material? Because it involves people of all kinds behind the wheel, being pretty much themselves.
When I lived in Germany, I definitely noted the difference in their attitude compared to Americans. Without getting into the more “nanny-state” mentality they have about many other things, they do happen to treat driving as an occupation, rather than “This thing you do to get from A to B” as most Americans do.
I also won’t debate the speed limit subject. There are valid points on both sides of the argument and, contrary to popular opinion, the Germans DO have speed limits, even on the Autobahn. Generally in many places it’s quite high, but in congested areas, it is set lower.
However with all that said, skill sets are important. If you’re an “average” driver who is doing something in addition to driving the vehicle, you are at a disadvantage. Texting, reading, eating, even talking is a distraction. People forget they are in a projectile and that there are laws of physics that cannot be ignored.
If you’re an excellent driver, but still doing anything distracting, it is also a compromise in safety. And, excellent drivers aren’t excellent all the time. The skills tend to degrade with age, or if you’re sick, tired, or just sick AND tired. (that’s a small joke, there)
But I’ve said it a thousand times in walmart. People walk the way they drive and drive the way they walk. In other words, I’m coming down the aisle and someone pops out of an adjacent aisle right into me. Happens all the time. They giggle and say “‘scuse me” and I try to not look annoyed….Because I saw them just do the exact same thing in parking lot while driving their car.
Pulling out in front of someone at the last second, not looking before you change the direction of the car, not using turn signals, driving around not realizing your high beams are on, driving around with your turn signal on in perpetuation, tailgating, on and on and on. Sure, most of us get there in one piece. And the odds of an accident happening are low..usually, but they go up in exponential fashion when it gets crowded.
I have been on the highway, next to a cop while he’s on his cellphone and his speed varied between 10 under the limit to 15 over. He was completely unaware of it because his mind was in another world…in conversation with whomever.
Some people lack the skill set to be an adequate driver..or..once they have a license, they figure they need everything there is to know about driving.
In flying, it’s quite different. When you get a pilot’s license, the common statement is that “it’s a license to learn”. Experience is the best instructor in aviation, as it should be in driving. But people, the weakest link in the whole thing, have to be diligent and treat it as the responsibility it is.
Catt simply pointed out that the experienced race car driver could weave through traffic because, to him, it was basically child’s play. I’m not advocating or condemning what he did, the point being that he could do that, safely whereas the average teen who thinks they’re “all that” think they can do it to and fails to anticipate and/or correct and slams into someone or something.
I once took a Porsche on an on-ramp in California at close to 100 mph and found myself immediately redressed by a CHiP. His lecture wasn’t typical. I got a ticket but his lecture was very interesting. He said that he didn’t worry about ME doing that so much as other people in less-capable cars thinking they could do it too, and wind up kissing the concrete wall. I broke the law, to be sure and deserved the ticket. I’ve no complaints about it. I paid it and am probably lucky I didn’t get thrown in the slammer.
But I thought about the patrolman’s statement for some time. Responsibility. Just because I have special training, doesn’t mean I should be allowed to drive like I want. However, because of that acquired skill, I hope I can avoid an accident should the situation arise. Most people mash on the brakes when trouble starts but sometimes, steering is more important. Going AROUND the problem is often a better choice. The reason speed becomes a factor is because, like it or not, the skill set that most American drivers have does not allow for expecting the other drivers to do the stupidest possible thing at the stupidest possible time. Therefore, speed laws in many states are “dumbed down” to account for this slow reaction time.
Sure, people have a natural reaction time…but often their reaction, once the brain has processed it, is the wrong one. Mashing on the brakes is often their first instinct because the brain wants to go to a “static” that is, motionless environment. Too bad. Can’t be done much of the time. But many drivers have not sufficient skill to quickly do something else.
Take the death of Dan Wheldon last Sunday. Many other drivers go through it due to a high level of skill and alertness. Yes, the variables were all over the place but the drivers new that getting off the accelerator and steering the car were far better choices than slamming on the brakes, as most commuter traffic does.
I have always been an advocate of a road-test every year, in spite of my dislike for the DMV. These days, I drive the speed limit, relax, don’t talk on the phone or do other distracting things and make sure I’m not tailgating, impeding anyone who wants to get around me…I’ve been known to pull off to the side when a tailgater just won’t quit it. I’ve nothing to prove…I don’t drive with my ego, I know how to merge and that…is one skill set that 90% of Americans are lacking in. But, I’ve seen it creeping in in many places in Germany as well. They’re still better at it but…
No, I’m not from Europe. I’m just remarking on the differences I’ve seen.
On the other side, I’ve seen some very awful pile-ups on the Autobahn where cars are moving at 120kph (about 70 mph, which is what most people in Germany do) into a fog bank and there’s a wreck in the fog up ahead. Visibility went from 5 miles to zero just that quickly. No time to react and blammo.
My own personal pet-peeve though is when I’m in a curve and oncoming traffic suddenly appears and the other guy is halfway in my lane as he comes around the curve. Seems to be more common these days where those yellow lines don’t seem to mean anything. I once followed a guy for a few miles and asked him why he was driving in the middle of the road. Answer? “In case you haven’t noticed the ride side of the lane is all potholes”. OK, then. Which is another thing about driving. “All about ME”. I didn’t express my opinion to him but maybe I should have. So…because the road is a mess, that gave him the right to drive in the middle of it and to hell with everyone else.
Yup…that pretty much sums up the “typical” American driver. Now…someday we’ll talk about Italy. Mama Mia!
Thank you for putting it so well, SG-1. You are correct in your answer to Jacobite’s comment on my comment. I don’t advocate different rules for different people – but as SG-1 said, city driving that would be a bit scary for an “average” driver was “child’s play” to this professional driver and it was fascinating to watch him. Would I ever drive that way? No way!! LOL. Would I advocate that even race car drivers not obey the regular traffic rules because they drive so much faster on the track? No, not at all. Sheesh. The other difference is that on the race track, everyone there presumably is a professional and on a similar level – on the roads … you never know. And even professional drivers with all their experience and safety equipment can die on the track … the tragedy of Dan Wheldon at Las Vegas a week ago shows that. BTW, I pretty much stick to the speed limits at all times, don’t talk on the phone while driving, play with my radio or text while I drive. I will however admit that I have put on makeup at a red light … yes, I am a girl
Municipalities should be required to publish data correlating traffic tickets with traffic safety.
Let’s just see if writing a bunch of tickets increases public safety.
I’m betting that the correlation is strong up to a certain level, and then quickly flattens so that additional tickets have zero correlation with public safety. It may even go negative since people are so concerned about getting caught for twiddling their thumbs that they cause accidents.
I’ve received at least two ticket in my life for rolling stops at intersections when there were absolutely no cars in sight in either direction (the cops had hidden themselves). One was at midnight at a sparsely populated intersection with few buildings in sight either, and I was cold sober. I would have had to deliberately crash into a building to hurt anybody, including myself.
Most every law enforcement agency does keep records of not only traffic tickets but statistics in all areas of more serious crimes as well. It is done for a very simple reason in most cases. To put law enforcement assets where they will do the most good. These reports are available to the public.
The sad fact is that some do use traffic or parking violations for a revenue generating source. Just watch the TV program “Parking Wars”
Parking Wars is definitely a program that shows both sides of the law enforcement coin. There are the ticket-wrters who really do just want to enforce the laws to make it easier on the rest of us law-abiding citizens, and then there are those who wait until the exact tick of the minute hand to pounce on someone in a time-restricted parking zone. Those latter ones are scary- it’s law for law’s sake, not to proved safety and order. I shudder to think what they’d do if they were in a position of more power, like prison guard or highway patrolman.
Maybe security cameras at intersections should be taken down. After all, their visibility is a warning that our bad driving behavior is being watched and if we act accordingly by obeying the traffic lights, the camera just like the headlight flashing will interfere with the police giving you a ticket.
Exactly. Perfect analogy.
Power corrupts, especially when it lacks status.
It can never be wrong to tell people to slow down and obey the speed limit. We don’t want to catch people speeding, we want to teach them to drive safe. It is an ongoing process, one that we do not give up on.
This story is sadly hilarious in two ways: one, photographing or talking back to a cop in America is roughly analogous to Egypt, a military dictatorship where they just sentenced a man to 3 years prison for insulting Islam on Facebook.
Secondly, drivers on the main highway north of Luxor, Egypt do the exact same thing with the high-beams, warning each other. Reason? Corrupt cops.
America is going downhill at a rapid pace. Cops are never wrong. Sure. We have the same freedom in America a rat in a wall has when it comes to anyone in a uniform. I could tell you horror stories about security in Las Vegas while taking the most innocent photos that would curl your hair.
When it’s said that Power corrupts, police being human are also prone to being corrupted by the power they possess and just like big government needs to be kept in line by a vigilant public so do other officials. Since the police are not mind readers there is no way they can know for certain the intent of someone flashing their lights when passing a speeding monitor. Of course common sense dictates it’s intended to warn others and if the person doing so was honest this was the intention but strictly speaking he could say his intentions were anything that he wants and no one could refute it unless of course they were mind readers. Unless there is a specific law saying this is unlawful because police can read your mind I’d say the police need to lighten up and let it go and as was said in another comment if the real intention of a speed monitor or warning others about it is to slow people down not collect money for the state that’s exactly what they’d do.
It’s like this.
Local governments have turned to traffic violations as a new form of taxation.
These traffic cams at the lights are all justified as for safety, but the first thing noted was that when a cam is installed at a light they decreased the duration of the yellow.
Then front to rear accidents increased by a country mile once folks know the lights are cammed.
Finally, the Lion’s share of tickets issued are for not fully stopping with all four tires motionless on right turns (a non issue where safety is concerned).
When I reported a Safety Hazard at a corner near to me, even though there were three speed traps less than two miles either way, it took 48 hours and one collision before a police officer decided that the offending item should be removed to allow better visibility.
Safety; Yeah, Right. (No Revenue in removing that obstruction to visibility)
If a citizen stumbles on a police stake-out and then warns the object of their observation that he is being monitored a potential criminal goes uncaught. The suspect is hardly likely to commit a crime while the police are watching but he is likely to commit the crime at a later opportunity.
How does this differ from flashing headlights to warn speeders?
Dear Deegee:
In the first case you proposed, more than one officer is obviously involved in a more obvious and complex police action, no doubt because the police have cause to believe that the people they are watching are already engaged in illegal activity. In the latter, which is the subject of this article, an officer is engaged in hoping to find traffic violators. He has no prior knowledge that a specific person has committed a crime, and he is not watching to catch them in the act.
The first is clearly interfering with a police officer, and depending on the crimes involved, even potentially being an accessory before or after the fact of a crime. With the traffic situation, while any driver can potentially be a speeder, there is no evidence that any driver approaching the area where the officer is running radar is breaking the law or intending to break the law. Someone flashing their headlights may have simply hit the wrong button, might be trying to warn of an obstacle or other danger, or may simply be doing the equivalent of a wave or saying hello. To criminalize flashing headlights can potentially make criminals out of every one of us. We have more than sufficient traffic laws on the books without making new ones or stretching existing laws to cover situations for which they weren’t written.
Seems to me like a better analogous situation would be “Crime Watch area” warning signs, or “Speed Monitored by Aircraft”.
This past summer, the local PD had a “50 Means 50″ ad campaign, warning us that they’d be aggressively ticketing speeders along a local parkway; there had been quite a few crashes and they wanted fewer of them. We slowed down, crashes decreased, dunno about revenue. There are ways to do it if you want safety.
Driving fast is a crime in and of itself, like armed robbery?
The goal is safe roads for everyone all the time, not catching law-breakers and not raising revenue.
Or is it?
When people flash their headlights they are helping the police that want safe driving. At the same time they are pissing off the police that want to catch somebody breaking the law and the police collecting revenue.
What if you don’t flash your lights and a speeder crashes instead of slowing down and passing safely by? What a good citizen you are!
Deegee you scare me with the phrase “a potential criminal.” I will give you that the cops on a stakeout are there for a reason but most folks wouldn’t try to warn someone they didn’t know that the cops are watching them. And how would that person know if the folks watching someone are cops or not unless they are marked? You comment now makes even less sense to me but thank you for appearing to be an apologist for a tyrannical police state…..
I have to agree that in most cases speeding citations are a means of revenue enhancement rather than a public safety initiative. When I moved to NM 17 years ago the interstate speed limit was 65 mph. The legislature proposed raising it to 75 mph. There was a great outcry from that State Police about lost revenue…not safety. In reality these roads were designed to accommodate 90 mph traffic. Trouble is that only SOME drivers are capable of safely driving at those speeds. We got 75 mph and no huge increase in highway fatalities.
For most of my adult life I have driven fast cars…and I have driven them fast. Then I got a job where I had to travel about 1,000 a week. I very quickly learned the foolishness of excessive speed. Speeding gives the driver the false sense of saving time – arriving at their destination sooner. In reality this is rarely the case. I had to regularly travel to 9 different clinics that were anywhere from 120 to 190 miles away (one way). Over time I had the travel time worked out to a minute or two. Guess what? On AVERAGE you don’t save any significant amount of time! You will almost always hit traffic, road construction, bad weather, accidents or simply traffic signals that utterly negate what you gained by speeding. You do, however, incur the risk of getting caught and you endanger other, slower drivers. This was a bitter pill for me to swallow, but facts is facts. You can leave Santa Fe and drive as fast as you can towards Grants, NM and I can guarantee you that at best you’ll beat me there by only 5 or 10 minutes with me diving just slightly over the posted speed limit.
I live near a main street that I use very often. On it are three schools that my kids, over the years, attended. The cops monitor it carefully although there are not many good hiding places.
I know all those good hiding places as would anyone who drove the road with any frequency. I NEVER flash my lights!! If the guy coming at me is speeding, I want him to get caught. I want that road to be as safe as possible and if it means bucks for my township, so much the better.
Okay, first, it has been said Police have no direct responsibility to respond to a call or even to a crime in progress. That said, even when they do respond there is no time limit on how long it takes them to get there.
Next, about the cops not being masked Gestapo, if you ever watch the show COPS you will see episodes where they accompany Drug agents wearing masks. Also, members of SWAT teams often wear masks. I don’t agree with it but they say it is to protect them from retaliation.
As to their driving, they are supposed to obey the laws just as much as a citizen is supposed to. Nowadays, they aren’t even allowed to chase. They are supposed to speed up only long enough to get the license plate number. If the car speeds off the officer is required to break off pursuit. Even on an emergency call they are only allowed to go a certain number of miles an hour over the speed limit. Back to their driving, I love being behind a cop when I’m driving, seems they are always at least 5 to 10 miles over the limit and never try to stop someone behind them.
The practice of taking one’s drivers license as bond instead of releasing him on his own recognizance is another abuse of police power in this age of requiring a government issued photo ID for all sorts of daily transactions. The police better watch out on that common practice too! Someone might decide to cut their pension benefits.
Officers can, if they wish, cite citizens for traveling two or three miles per hour over the posted speed limit.
Not here in Florida, where the legislature enacted a law several years ago which prohibits ticketing drivers within 5 mph of the limit. As soon as that law took effect, the ritzy Orlando suburb of Windermere lowered all it speed limits by — you guessed it — 5 mph. [sarcasm] Just for safety’s sake, of course. [/sarcasm]
All this would stop in a microsecond of local governments could not keep the money from fines. There is precedent for such a policy. In all pro sports, all fines levied against players & coaches go to various charities. This removes any appearance of conflict of interest — the leagues cannot be accused of filling their coffers by ordering referees to eject people. While this likely wouldn’t work in a government setting (who decides which charities get the money?), IMHO a workable alternative is available. All traffic fines should be placed in the state’s highway trust fund. That way, 1) cities and counties would have no incentive to operate traffic traps, and 2) there would be less pressure to increase fuel taxes.
I hope Mr. McDaniel does a future article on the practice of “highway robbery by cop.” That’s when cops invent “profiles” to stop certain drivers who have committed no traffic violation, then seizing their cash on the allegation that it’s “drug money.” In the late 1990s the sheriff of a nearby county targeted minorities traveling on I-95 with out-of-state plates for this shakedown — in effect, turning the highway into his personal slush fund.
Strider,
I had the same idea yesterday. The revenue from traffic violations should never go back to the precincts/counties that issue them. The fines collected should not benefit the law enforcement agencies as it creates a conflict of interest.
Sadly it doesn’t work. Funding for the police agencies trickles down through several layers of government, and can easily (and often is in places where the suggested system is in place) be made dependent on generated income.
So while they don’t see the money directly in their bank accounts, indirectly it still influences their budget, what new equipment they get, staffing numbers, etc.
The only way to avoid this is to by law earmark ALL income from any fines to things completely unrelated to the police.
So traffic fines should automatically go to road maintenance and contruction, fines for other things to whatever topic is related to the area the fine was issued for (so a fine for littering could be used to fund street cleaners or public garbage cans in parks for example).
That way the incentive is gone, and the fines can be shown to be used productively.
Of course this still leaves the issue that the fines increase the government budget, and governments will be more than willing to demand income numbers from police agencies as a requirement for their funding levels.
We have the good, and we have the bad. My local County Sheriffs department I have no problems with. They are too busy patrolling for real crime to sit around speed trapping and will help in any situation promptly. Our state highway patrol is another thing entirely. Every time I have had contact with one (3 times in 30 years) the only threat to public safety was them. Last time I was the only car within site, had my entire family and two nieces in the van and had a HiPo came like a bat-out-of-hell up to within a few feet of my rear bumper, rode there for a few miles at highway speeds, and then turned on the lights to pull me over for going…6mph over posted on an empty 4 lane. If anyone else had done that they would have been jailed for reckless endangerment. When I pointed this fact out to him (very politely, I had three kids in the van after all) he returned with another citation for improperly securing my son in the car seat. (He never even looked in or checked) And his supervisor was riding with him! I had to miss a day of work but beat both charges. Needless to say, I flash my lights every time I see a trap.
Interesting highway patrol story. Something similar happened to me nearly 20 years ago outside Biloxi, MS, though I didn’t get a ticket.
Recently the Florida Highway Patrol was forced to admit that while it doesn’t subject its people to actual ticket quotas, it does have a daily “public contact” quota. And of course there’s no better way to make contact than issuing tickets.
A few years ago either Minneapolis or St. Paul outsourced its parking ticket work to civilian “meter maids.” This was done to circumvent the state law prohibiting ticket quotas, which applies only to sworn police officers.
This site is an excellent information source for traffic traps nationwide. You can even see how many people agree or disagree with any “trap” designation.
It is probably worthwhile for a law abiding citizen who also wishes to aid the police in their protection of the public, to make an obvious point in this case.
If we assume police radar traps are for the purpose of making people obey the speed limit, then signaling the offending drivers to slow down to the speed limit is helping the police, and the signalers should be commended.
If we assume police radar traps are for increasing State revenue, then the signalers could be made liable for all lost revenue. When that case is clear, the citizens can eliminate all the politicians who allowed that to be the case, and change the rules. However the police don’t make the law they enforce them and are not at fault unless signaling is not a crime or the law is ambiguous in which case it should be made obvious thatRightGunner the law needs to be changed.
There’s a case to be made, but that ain’t the way to make it. Flashing your lights does not mean “Hey, don’t speed.” It means “Hey, don’t speed here. You’ll get caught.”
No, the police do not enforce the law. If that were the case we would not have 20 million illegal invaders from mexico in this country.
Opps.. no money to make for the State on that one. Better if we just take away cops guns, then they can issue all the traffic cites they want.
It is probably worthwhile for a law abiding citizen who also wishes to aid the police in their protection of the public, to make an obvious point in this case.
If we assume police radar traps are for the purpose of making people obey the speed limit, then signaling the offending drivers to slow down to the speed limit is helping the police, and the signalers should be commended.
If we assume police radar traps are for increasing State revenue, then the signalers could be made liable for all lost revenue. When that case is clear, the citizens can eliminate all the politicians who allowed that to be the case, and change the rules. However the police don’t make the law they enforce them and are not at fault unless signaling is not a crime or the law is ambiguous in which case it should be made obvious that the law needs to be changed.
I grew up in the ’50s – ’60s in rural Georgia. The North-South Interstates weren’t finished and Yankee tourists going to Florida and trucks hauling produce north were subjected to the old two lane federal highways that wended through the small Georgia towns. In those days county sheriffs and their deputies practically worked on commission. ‘Course the “big men” of The South weren’t much on that paying for labor stuff anyway. Some towns went so far as to have the red lights in the middle of town controlled by a switch so the cop in the little glass booth could just switch it red whenever an out of state plate went through. The little town of Ludowici, GA on US 301 was such an effective “speed trap” that it garnered articles in all sorts of national magazines warning Yankee tourists to take an alternate route. In those days Southern cops fully deserved their stereotyped bad reputation; they were ignorant, venal, thoroughly corrupt people who lived off their ability to abuse people.
Professional, reasonably paid law enforcement has gone a long ways towards eliminating that, but there are still lots of cops with serious authority issues and no amount of training can overcome a personal desire to have power over people. They know that the pretty woman might want to “negotiate” her way out of a ticket. They know that the black guy in the 300 with 22s might just pay the “ticket” on the spot rather than have a Terry search. And they know that anybody out after 9 or so probably had a drink with dinner, so they can make the government a little money.
We have too little self-reliance and too many cops. Becaause they’re practically federalized because of all the money the US pours into local law enforcement they look and act like they’re on patrol in Kandahar even though they’re in some little town that hasn’t had a violent crime in living memory. We made them, we tolerate it, I guess with live with our creation.
. . . they look and act like they’re on patrol in Kandahar even though they’re in some little town that hasn’t had a violent crime in living memory.
A lot of them have likely been to Kandahar, or someplace as bad. Many local LEOs are also military reservists or National Guardsmen, and have been called up and deployed to the wars. Then they return home and bring their battlefield “shoot first and don’t even bother to ask questions” mindset with them, not to mention a rollicking case of PTSD. Small wonder they consider everyone not in a police uniform “the enemy.”
It pains me to say it, but I’m forced to contend that recent combat veterans (in the last 5 years) should be disqualified from law enforcement. Too many of them are walking hand grenades with the pin at the edge of falling off. At any rate, the military mindset is totally incompatible with police work. Cops need to memorize and internalize the immortal words of Mace Windu: “We’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers.” And that applies whether they’re carrying a gun, a taser or a lightsaber.
I don’t find the pro-Campbell argument very compelling, and my reasons have nothing to do with the law itself. If you believe a law is unjust, then sure, go ahead and break it — and be ready to take your punishment like a man. That’s the difference between a civil resister and a criminal who just wants to get away with something.
If he were just using his case as a platform to argue for changing speed-trap practices, I’d have no problem with Campbell. But this class action suit is a whole other deal.
REVENUE. This is all about REVENUE, from tickets. If the objective was public safety, the the “headlight flasher” has accomplished that, his “warning” causes other drivers to slow down. But it’s not about public safety, it’s about MONEY pure and simple.
“How then, could Erich Campbell have been obstructing the police officer running radar that day?”
He wasn’t, but the officer’s duty wasn’t running the radar, it was generating income through fines, and as people stopped speeding that duty was obstructed.
Of course putting it like that to a court would be sure to get the case thrown out, so it wasn’t.
” They choose enforcement areas carefully to have the maximum impact on traffic safety. Some cities use traffic violations as revenue streams, but that’s another article”
It’s the exact same issue. The areas are (by most agencies) NOT selected for road safety, but purely for income potential.
Thus a country road that sees relatively little traffic but where speeds are high and self-inflicted accidents frequent (cars running out of corners and ending up in a lake, killing the driver, is one very frequent where I live) will hardly ever get patrolled except for appearances’ sake for a week or so after yet another death, while a busy motorway where few accidents happen but most people drive a bit over the limit with no danger to anyone sees almost daily radar and laser guns because the hundreds of small fines generate serious money for the police agency, and whichever government they’re funding.
It’s even got to the point where income from traffic violations is now a fixed budget point on many government levels, and police forces are required to generate certain amounts per year (with performance reviews of individual officers sometimes depending on the amount of income generated).
“In all my life, I have never found a cop to be friendly or helpful. ”
I have, most of them in fact are friendly and helpful and HATE the image that’s generated by the minority (and they hate having to do all those radar traps and other entrapment operations to generate income for the department rather than go out and go after real criminals, and help citizens in trouble.
As always, a small minority (and in this case insane rules and regulations they have to comply with that makes it impossible to do their actual job (*)) ruins things for everyone.
(*) which caused my sister to have to wait over half an hour for the police to arrive once after she had a car crash in front of a police station, with over a dozen officers hanging out the window smoking to work around the indoor smoking ban.
“My last ticket was for 32 in a 25 zone.
The police officer situated himself between the crest of a hill and the sign that said 45 mph.”
Sounds all too familiar. Similar thing happens here where I work. Cops position themselves to get cars cresting the hill where they 1) can’t see the cop and 2) will speed up from the downgrade unintentionally.
My “worst” ticket like that was for doing 36 in a 35 zone, while accellerating away from a traffic light (and a second or so before slowing down to stop at the next one).
In my area of the country, an oncoming motorist will flash his headlights at oncoming cars to warn of some obstruction in the roadway, an accident blocking a lane, a dead deer on the highway, an idiot walking on the highway with dark clothing, stopped traffic, and yes, even the police with radar. Since the main purpose of the radar traps is to ticket you to convince you to slow down, the flashing oncoming headlights are a signal to be aware of something unexpected, which usually results in a sense of heightened situational awareness. Additionally, most people reduce their speed to avoid an accident, damage to their car or a ticket. The headlight flash serves the same purpose as the police using radar. the only difference is that states and municipalities lose money due to fewer fines. The headlight flash has saved me and many others from what may have been an accident on several occasions, and a few tickets too!
flashing the lights is NOT obstructing or aiding malfeasance.
no more then the sign indicating the speed limit.
some police officers should remember why they are there. it is to protect and aid the population to to subjugate them (it isn’t soviet russia …yet).
So let me get this straight… Officer Ruskin believes it is against the law to tell someone not to drive over the speed limit? The headlight flash has the same deterrent effect as the fine on the back of the ticket. It deprives the police of their preious revenue stream… that’s obviously what this is all about.