The Cool Water of the Koran:
"From water God made every living thing."
-Surah Number 21 Ayah Number 30, Koran
A Letter on Islam written in response to a non-Muslim writer: "The problem with Islam is not the Koran, but Muslims and their respective understandings of the Koran that result in their differing conduct."
by Salim Mansur
Dear Sir: 
 
You ask me political questions and not questions about faith. You do not ask what Islam means to me as a person and others of my persuasion who embrace its teachings as part of the family of Abraham’s faith traditions, Judaism and Christianity.¬† This is a common conflation. It is from this present perspective, one that makes politics dominate¬† faith that causes Islam to be seen as a “political” religion.¬†¬†
Islam is practiced  as a politicized faith by  a majority of Muslims.  This practice shapes writings about Islam in the media and the resulting disdain or abuse directed towards it.  Since Muslims have made Islam into politics (and hence are responsible for perverting Islam as a faith-tradition), non-Muslims cannot be blamed for understanding and assessing Islam politically. Neither can they be blamed for seeing Islam as being predisposed to violence. Muslims, particularly jihadi Muslims (those who consider making war as one of the core tenets of Islam), have made Islam inseparable from their politics while Muslims who disagree remain mostly silent.
 
The Koran – Muslims believe as a matter of faith that the Koran is God’s Words revealed to Muhammad – is as infinite in its meaning (so does Koran describes itself) as is the infinity of God in all His attributes by which we, fallible humans, in our finitude¬†struggle to comprehend Him.¬†
 
To quench their thirst a bird and an elephant drink water from the same pool. Their thirsts are quantitatively, perhaps even qualitatively, different and they remain different despite the fact they drink from the same pool.
Muslims drink for their needs from the same spiritual pool of life-giving water, the Koran. Still, any two Muslims – jihadi Muslims on the one hand and myself on the other – might not have anything in common in Islam except for¬† the belief that the Koran is God’s Words and Muhammad was a prophet in the long line of prophets from Abraham to Jesus.¬† The problem with Islam is not the Koran, but Muslims and their respective understandings of the Koran that result in their differing conduct.¬†
 
There are verses and chapters in the Koran that speak about violence done or the violence that comes about in resisting and defeating evil.  There are verses in the Koran that speak of justice, mercy, peace, beauty, charity, love, patience, devotion, prayers, and good conduct that redeems an individual on the Day of Reckoning. 
 
The Koran as God’s Words is analogous to nature containing the beauty of the rose and the violence of tsunami. Neither nature nor God is to be blamed for the most sublime sunset followed soon after by a Katrina-type hurricane.¬† Those who do not understand this can no more be faulted than faulting a deaf man for failing to appreciate Beethoven’s ninth symphony.
 
The verses speaking about wars and the necessity to defeat unbelievers – these should only be read as instructions and guidance for Muhammad to defeat those who made war with him so that God’s Words would prevail.¬† They are not instructions for al Qaeda leaders and jihadi Muslims.¬† Irrespective of how they read these verses as guidance and justification for their demented politics, the Koran nullifies this over and over again by its universal instruction to follow the path of mercy, justice, forgiveness, repentance, charity and to trust in the eventual reckoning of¬† the merciful God.¬†
 
Moreover, the Koran’s instruction to resist and defeat infidels begs the question about who are “infidels.”¬† A majority of Muslims, in particular jihadi Muslims, take anyone who opposes them and their view of Islam as infidel.¬† It might be said, on the contrary, infidels are those people who engage in evil that is life-denying, who wage war against freedom and democracy in our time. It might also be said that those who spread terror indiscriminately are infidels and need to be resisted and defeated. In other words infidels are fascists, communists, tyrants of all sorts. Given the politics they espouse and the violence they engage in by despoiling God’s name and those of His prophets this list would include jihadi Muslims .
 
The Koran instructs individuals to choose the right path.¬† Because human beings, in contrast to angels and all other members of God’s creation, are endowed with free will it instructs them to choose among alternatives.¬† It is in our freedom to choose we become fully human, and freedom means responsibility and accountability for choices made and acts committed.¬† The Koran reminds us over and over again that we are responsible for the consequences of our conduct.¬†
 
Most Muslims, perhaps a majority, might now be practically deaf to the Koran’s message and its majesty, and can only pick up the very limited sound of what suits their preferred needs as do the jihadi Muslims.¬† Such Muslims, needless to add, will never find poetry in the morning dew or evening stars, will never comprehend the beauty of creation where sun spots have a place in the face of the sun.
I could cite innumerable verses from the Koran that jihadi Muslims -¬†and non-Muslims who view Islam as it is reflected in the conduct of Osama Bin Laden – do not comprehend or will not acknowledge, and so my effort will be as barren as trying to help a deaf man listen to Beethoven’s ninth symphony.¬†
 
I end this letter citing one verse from the Koran for you.¬† It is taken from Chapter 5 in A.J. Arberry’s translation:
“O believers, be you securers of justice, witnesses for God. Let not detestation for a people move you not to be equitable; be equitable – that is nearer to godfearing.¬† And fear God; surely God is aware of the things you do.”
 
The Koran is overflowing with such instructions and admonishments.¬† The Koran’s message is not directed for Muslims only -¬†a Muslim in terms of belief and conduct, according to the Koran, is inferior to a Mumin (a believer in God be he a Jew, a Christians, or of any other faith-tradition and this belief is evident in his conduct) – but to anyone and everyone who will read and comprehend its universal message of peace and tranquility that comes with faith in God’s infinite mercy and compassion.¬†¬†
To suggest the Koran preaches violence, as jihadi Muslims do by their conduct, or it’s message is reserved for a particular people, as understood by non-Muslims influenced by jihadi conduct, is a travesty against God of all creation, of Abraham and Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, of prophets known and unknown, and against the Koran.¬†
 
I am reminded of what the wonderful friend and Rabbi Abraham Heschel would say to his students that if “my God is not your God and is uncaring about others then he is merely an idol.” ¬†The God of Islam is not an idol, nor caring only about Muslims. The God of Islam and of Muhammad is the God of Abraham. That many Muslims have forgotten this simple reality the Koran announces is evident in their bigotry and violence directed against others.¬† Their misery is proportionate to their forgetfulness.
 
But then to the blind the Koran is as¬†closed a book as Beethoven’s ninth symphony is inaudible to the deaf.
 
Respectfully,
Salim Mansur
Salim Mansur is a professor of political science at the University of Western Ontario and a syndicated columnist in Canada and the United Kingdom. A Muslim native to Calcutta, India, and a noted Islamic scholar, Prof. Mansur has written extensively on Islamic extremism and the challenges facing contemporary Islam.
The professor’s are music to my ears.
As a God fearing Christian ,As an American , as a fellow human being.
His words pour from his heart .Words are so important they are as light to the day . They describe the human condition. Words are the seeds to the mind and soul that nuture our faith. Oh how important is the word of God and how we chose to allow them to become our reality. And how important would words be if they carried no carry consquences. Let us be reflections of His word. Love . Not emotional love, but love as that from the Creator.Blessings to all who share this life in the word of God where life is precious and light to the soul.
Islam, a so called “religion” made up by a murdering, thieving child molester. No wonder muslims are so screwed up. Resist Islam wherever it may be, these nuts are not “tolerant” of anyone, they even kill their own in the name of islam. The world needs to wake up and stop this insane “religion” NOW!
“every living thing” is wrong.
the correct translation is “everything living”.
Long winded excuse read: It’s not MY fault,….it’s those OTHER Muslims….not me.
Tell me something I don’t know, for a change.
Here’s an old saying for you……talk is cheap!
Here’s another…..What are YOU going to do about it?
Although this letter is beautifully written, the author does not speak of things that are unique to Islam. Buddhism describes the same things clearer and less prone to misinterpretation.
The Author ignores centuries of Koranic exegesis that supports the Jihadi interpretation as well as ignoring nearly 3/4ths of the Sira of the Prophet and the same proportion of the Hadith.
It is clear that the Author himself is committing takfir – by claiming that many (or most) other Muslims do not have the right message, he calls them infidels. The implication is that these kufaar are not true Muslims – and from the same Koran in which he cites verses, the penalty for such unbelief is death.
I would be more enthused about this letter if the author would go back to the source materials and explain how, if the Koran is God’s word, he can contextualize it temporally; considering the doctrine of abrogation and the fact that the Medinian verses came last in the revelation – forever enshrining Allah’s command to kill as ‘higher status’ than his exhortations of peace.
Dr. Mansur (if you read this), I have seldom read these thoughts expressed as succinctly. One part I had difficulty understanding was “a Muslim in terms of belief and conduct, according to the Koran, is inferior to a Mumin (a believer in God be he a Jew, a Christians, or of any other faith-tradition and this belief is evident in his conduct)”.
Islam is not alone as a religion struggling with a troublesome interpretation of its bedrock scripture — for evidence, one need only look at the establishment of the Protestant Church. The question becomes, as Pope Benedict has hinted, how to resolve this internal conflict without a generalized religious war. It is clear from some of the immoderate posts above that there is a widespread perception that peace-loving muslims are either unwilling or unable to control their monsters. Is this not also jihad?
Blah…blah…blah…blah…I personally do not believe anyone truly embracing the murderous religion called Isalm could have written that letter. What a load…
The midrash schools in London use textbooks that call Jews apes and Christians pigs….
More excuses…more of the same old “It’s not me”…..
Most muslims cannot even read the Koran because it’s only supposed to be read in Arabic.
The problem with Islam is exactly that is followers can interpret the writings any way they want. This makes it highly useful for those who choose to use an ideology of violence, as it justifies it.
There is no “pope” of Islam to identify the “true faith” – but rather a document of “infinite” interpretations. In Islam in many cultures, anyone can proclaim himself an interpreter and issue “holy” orders
Historically, followers of Islam have been very war-like, in the name of spreading Islam. Even the Christian crusades started as an attempt to roll back an Islamic conquest (by war). Today’s Jihad is not new – it is a continuation of a war of conquest that paused only while the European powers were too strong to be defeated, and instead conquered (out of colonialism, not religion) Muslim lands.
Of the major religions in modern times, Islam has generated by far the most conflict and oppression. There is a “ring of fire” around the lands of Islam, as Islamists attack the infidels there. From Thailand to Indonesia to Africa to the Middle East, we see this.
Today, the more extreme (Islamist or Salafist) interpretations are spreading rapidly among Muslims, especially young people most prone to violence. Many use this to their advantage – from the nihilist Al Qaeda to the apocalyptic Iranian president and his (perhaps more earthly minded) Ayatollah superiors.
A deafening silence comes from the Muslim world. Where is the condemnation of even the worst atrocities of jihadists by Muslims. How can we believe that moderate Muslims exist or are of any importance under these circumstances? That silence is more eloquent than any intellectual interpretation of the Koran.
The processor is to be commended for speaking out against the jihadists.
It could just as easily be said that the problem with Marxism isn’t with communisim itself, but with the imperfect implementation of communism.
Tell that to the hundreds of millions slaughtered in communism’s name. What do such distinctions matter? In the end, if a belief system manifests itself in totalitarian nightmares, where millions upon millions suffer due to the manner in which the ideology is interpreted — does it matter if there’s some theoretically perfect version in someone’s imagination?
I say NO!
Further, this “professor” writes a mild sounding argument which completely sidesteps the FACT that Muslims consider the life of Muhammad to be an exemplar for male behavior, conduct, and existence. His his congenital predisposition towards thievery, violence, rage, rape, genocide, greed, lust, and duplicity form the core of the Hadiths and Suras, which also form the reality of Islam for all Muslims. The Koran is only one part of the puzzle. On some level, the failure of Dr. Mansur to mention this fact appears duplicitous.
And that isn’t to let the Koran off the hook either, as he attempts to do. The Koran itsself is replete with exhortations to violence, expressions of hatred, and a severe division of the world into “believers” (Muslims) and “unbelievers” (so-called “infidels”) among which there can never be equanimity from the Muslim’s perspective.
Just because this man may have a personal interpretation of Islam which may or may not comport with the modern world, the laws of Man as the West and modern world define them, and a capacity to tolerate that which isn’t sanctioned in his narrow book of worship (despite what he says about it being “infininte in meaning…”) means absolutely nothing to the billion plus Muslims living out Muhammad’s creed of hatred for non-Muslims, and a dedication to the spread of Islam above all other things.
Jihad doesn’t just mean strapping on bombs and “casting fear into the hearts of the unbelivers” as the Koran demands… It also includes the little Muslim girl selling baked goods at the local “community center” to insure that Islam spreads and spreads and spreads until it covers the globe. (Also something the Koran demands of Muslims.)
Thank you for your essay.
There are bigots among all groups, but most Muslims love God and care for family and neighbors.
I suspect the bigoted comments above are by those who don’t know any Muslims personally.
I read a book called “Why I left Jihad” The auther once a muslim argues the complete opposite to this Professor. One arguement he presents is that in christianity the reformation brought people back to the bible and moved christians away from the Crusades. He says you cannot have that in Islam because the Koran actually directs the moderate to be more violent… not less violent. To convince muslims to be more moderate means to move them away from the teachings of the Koran. How do you plan on guiding radical islamists to be more moderate without being able to appeal to their set of holy writtings? The radicals are in fact telling the moderates to come back to the central teachings of the Koran. The author points out that while you do find some moderate teachings, the radical portions heavily out number them.
This is a good letter. There can be nothing wrong with rendering the scriptures into a great faith to the exclusion of all evil. That message is an admonition to jihadis, but a more perfect reminder to non-Muslims of respect for personal, unobtrusive piety no matter what faith. I disapprove of those few comments above that reject the clarification out of hand. If a majority of Muslims and especially key figures in Islam shared this thinking and were as vocal the jihad would be diminished.
I cannot speak intelligently about the Koran, as I’ve not read most of it and I am not sure that my reading of it would provide me any wisdom. Yet, I am saddened to read the many above comments that are some readers’ chosen reaction to this letter. They sound as though the commentators had just watched a Jihadi speak his anti-American mind on Youtube.
All our religions have portions in our core texts that are interpreted as extortions to violence. The same man who said, “Judge not least ye be judged yourself” also said in Mathew 10:34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law”. There are, of course, various rationalizations for the sort of sentiments this quote demonstrates and one must try to cultivate the most gentle understanding of such incendiary text if one wants to be a peace loving Christian.
I do not agree that one who murders cannot see the beauty in Creation as the professor suggests. I certainly think the significance of human life has different meaning to a Jihadi as it does to myself or for Salim Mansur. If you learn of Islam’s history you will see that when the Arabs conquered Persia they tried to convert those they found in their new territories but did not coerce them with violence until later dynasties. In fact, the Jews of Persia found their prestige and self-government to be expanded by the victorious Muslims. If we analyze the Byzantine Christians who ruled in times contemporary with the Arab conquests of Persia, these later day Romans treated the Jews living in that part of the world with contempt for their property, their way of life and their lives. One cannot claim these Christians were simply reacting to Muslim conquest of their lands as the Arabs had yet to ride against the Christians and had, in fact, defeated the principle foes of the Byzantine Empire. An intellectually honest person would have to regard the saintliness of those very pious Christians to be worthy of a less then exemplary glory.
I wonder also, how successful any of us have been in getting the American government to adopt the various attitudes and policies that we each know to be the direction our nation should be headed. There are eight commentators above who should have made that difference it would takes to alter the course of the various political movements they disagree with. Perhaps Mr. Mansur does not have competence in the sort of political activities it would take to get the Jihadis to become moderate. I certainly don’t have the rhetorical skill to convince various Americans that voting Democrat is usually worse for our country then voting Republican. How then could I assume that the Professor who wrote this paper has the ability to convince his fellow moderate Muslims to band together and take their stance in a more assertive and effectual manner? I could not.
We all know that the Jihadi form of Islam is a disease. Perhaps Islam is a religious body more susceptible to this sort of cancer then other faiths. The Christian body has had plenty of need for chemotherapy in its murderous history so lets not be casting stones. I suggest we band together in union with a man like Mr. Mansur. I suggest we see the brotherhood we share as freedom loving, G-d fearing, and limited beings. I suggest we support people like Mr. Mansur and give his friends, those with lesser gifts in writing, the courage to speak their mind. Perhaps we will have the courage to understand them better so our unity in G-d and nation will reflect the highest ideals each of our faiths drive us towards.
Islam will survive our war with Jihadis. One hopes these battles that are fought today are the last wars between people who share faith in the One True God. Let us pray that G-d blesses us with peace in this world and a share of His glory in the world to come. We will sooner find peace by allying with those holding sentiments as discussed in the letter above then with those bigoted comments that followed.
With all due respect, P. Ami and others — your out of pocket rejection of the various skeptical posts above is frustrating. You admit little knowledge of the Koran, and then proceed to defend Islam, and reveal that you are “saddened” by posts above which point out some subtle but significant flaws in Dr. Mansur’s letter above.
Please — familiarize yourself with Islam before you defend it, or become saddened when you read more knowledgeable critics of it.
This trait among Westerners — our willingness to believe in the basic goodness of others, to believe in the basic redeemability of the human soul is usually an admirable trait. But what if Islam is different? What if Muslims are exploiting that trait in us?
What you and other posters above reveal is that you know very little about Islam, but are more disposed to excuse what Jihadi Muslims do as aberrant. What the truth reveals is that the violent and intolerant practice of the Jihadis is right in line with the basic tenets of Islam, and that the Jihadis have far more support for their position vis-a-vis Islam than Muslims such as Dr. Mansur do. If this is so, then Dr. Mansur’s assertions hold little water with his fellow Muslims, and only serve to lull Westerners to sleep who are so desperate to find a moderate way among Muslims. His positions doesn’t stand up to basic scrutiny.
So what are the basic tenets of Islam?
As I point out in my post above — I have learned that the basic tenets of Islam don’t just emerge from the Koran, as Dr. Mansur tries to maintain, but also rely on a body of work labeled the Hadiths and the Suras.
This is a body of writings which happened shortly after the death of Muhammad. His followers immediately began writing down every last detail they could remember of how he lived. They reasoned that Allah’s chosen prophet’s life must have been the most exemplary life for a human being to follow — and therefore began recording in shocking detail every aspect of Muhammad’s life that could be remembered.
This body of work forms a basis for the understanding of Islam, and actually serves to inform Muslims in interpreting the Koran as well.
Everything I’m about to assert comes from these “holy” Muslim texts. I am making none of this up in order to defame Islam. Muhammad’s record does that sufficiently:
Muhammad was a thief, as interested in gathering loot and booty from raids on caravans as spreading his “religion”. This is the truth according to the most sacred texts of the Muslims.
Muhammad personally slaughtered dozens upon dozens of people. He personally beheaded many people with his sword. He ordered torture, including burning to death, and the gouging out of eyes, the cutting off of hands, and the lopping off of legs right in his presence. This is the truth according to the most sacred texts of the Muslims.
Muhammad used terror to threaten and persuade people to follow him and adopt Islam (conversion by the sword — just picture the Saudi flag with the sword on it and the Shidada written in Arabic) This is the truth according to the most sacred texts of the Muslims.
Muhammad made and then broke treaties. This is the truth according to the most sacred texts of the Muslims.
Muhammad raped and kept slaves. This is the truth according to the most sacred texts of the Muslims.
Muhammad “married” a six year old girl, and then consummated his “marriage” with her when she was nine years old, and he was in his mid 50s. This is the truth according to the most sacred texts of the Muslims.
So when the Jihadis rape, behead, use terror to spread Islam, betray contracts (such as joining the U.S. Army, and then blowing up your officers with grenades as that Muslim soldier did at the onset of the Iraq war in order to “protect” other Muslims), when Muslims refuse to shake the hands of “infidels” because they consider us to be “unclean”, when they insist that toilets not face Mecca — all of these things are found in the basic tenets of Islam.
There will never be a reformation of Islam. Islam cannot endure a reformation. It is, at its very core, a violent, xenophobic, hatred based ideology. It is a merciless form of government. It is a creed which eternally divides the world into “believers” and “non-believers”. The “non-believers” are relegated to a perpetually inferior status. Women will never have any equality in any Islamic state. Islam cannot tolerate other religions. Muslims will never truly integrate with others as long as they adhere to Islam.
All of these things are FACTS. Please familiarize yourself with the subject. The lack of knowledge on the part of most Westerners regarding what we’re confronting with Muslims in our midst is perhaps a fatal ignorance. Muslims are here to spread Islam in our domain. A true Muslim must place fealty to Islam and its laws of sharia above fealty to any law of man. As such, Muslims are dedicated to a system which is the antithesis of everything the West represents, and pose a grave threat to our ongoing existence.
There is nothing out of hand or complete in my rejection of the above posts. The point I make is that there are violent examples of behavior described in the Koran as well as in the Bible. The following argument is not a form of moral relativism rather a discussion of what matters when we use only the literary religious primers as examples for how to live our lives.
Look at the politics instigated by both Islam and Christianity and you will find thugs prone to violence using both texts as their primers for how to behave. Jesus led a reckless and arrogant life in which he presumed to argue how to break his eternal covenant with G-d. This sin is no less serious then the sin of eating of the fruit of knowledge. Still, Jesus did not live a violent life even if some of his words are easily construed, as they have been many times in the past, to forgive violence. Jesus himself is only responsible for the sins he himself committed. His way of life has historically been an example to societies that have enacted crimes against people that leaves no ground on which to suggest any moral superiority to Islam. That said, we must cultivate among Muslims who know the evil that is inherent in Jihadi Islam the strength to stand against all barbarity. These good people can provide an example and the ideas behind how a Muslim can behave as a civilized human being and still remain Muslim. The fact is that in the last thousand years there are examples of great piety among the Muslims. One wishes for more such examples.
This following quote by Morton Doodslag is wrong, “There will never be a reformation of Islam. Islam cannot endure a reformation. It is, at its very core, a violent, xenophobic, hatred based ideology. It is a merciless form of government. It is a creed which eternally divides the world into “believers” and “non-believers”. The “non-believers” are relegated to a perpetually inferior status. Women will never have any equality in any Islamic state. Islam cannot tolerate other religions. Muslims will never truly integrate with others as long as they adhere to Islam.”
Mr. Doodslag, you have some study of history to make yourself. When the Muslims, under Uthman, conquered Persia and then the later conquest of the Byzantines, they arrived with a far more tolerant brand of ideology then those dynasties they replaced. There are examples of very fine, articulate and tolerant forms of Islam. Don’t mistake knowledge of this for an error in recognizing the threat of today’s, politically dominant expression of that religion. I do not submit to Islam nor do I recognize Mohamed as G-d’s prophet. My observation is that those whose faith follows Jesus’ teaching are in a battle for souls with Islam and wish that the sins of their religion be forgotten along with the goodness that has historically been expressed in Islam, however meager that may be. If history provided no examples of good Muslims then I might view Mr. Mansur with a different attitude. But, I have seen good Christians in spite of its history and I have seen good Muslims in spite of its current condition.
All three religions have texts that teach their followers how to behave. If simply read by we who hardly merit literacy then we often interpret these words as we please. If you were to look at the number of Jews today who merit stoning according to G-d’s laws for us, you would have to also argue that Judaism is an intolerant and evil religion. Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son because a voice in his head told him so. If you take the Christian Bible at its word then Jesus walked around with a form of dementia in which he believed he was a new Hercules, the literal scion of a deity. One must account for interpretation of these texts and how effective the oral traditions have been in recognizing the need for tolerant and humane interpretations in justice. Hillel said, back in the days before Jesus, that a Jewish court that convicted and executed a man within the last 70 years was considered a brutal court. Keep in mind that many Jews in Hillel’s day were Hellenized and lived a life-style quite difficult to distinguish from the Greeks and Romans living in Judea of that day. Yet, this great man; who had spent his life living and teaching according to a book that insists you not to suffer a witch to live, to cut the foreskin of your infants, to sacrifice animals, to destroy the nation of Amalek and many other practices that many today consider intolerant, was asked by a Roman what the main lesson of Judaism is. Hillel responded, a full generation before Jesus was born, “Do onto others as you would have them do onto you”. I still believe that one can read evil and good in the Bible and in the Koran. I still stand on the idea that we cannot eradicate Islam without becoming ourselves hateful and intolerant. We must direct our attacks against the specific actions and intentions of our enemies and try to nurture understanding with those Muslims who have the will for such dialog. But, you are correct. I aught to complete my reading of the Koran and them move on to the commentaries so I can better understand of what I write. Still, one can hardly comprehend a religion if lacking intimacy with its oral traditions.
There will never be a reformation of Islam.
Perhaps this statement requires a small clarification:
Any reformation of Islam will end up looking exactly like Al Qaida.
In the Christian doctrine, the reformation meant in its best sense getting back to the basics of the Gospels and the larger New Testament — it meant throwing away all the addons which the Roman Church had accreted to Christian doctrine after more than a millenium. Whether or not this was successful is really immaterial, except to point out that the Reformation also yielded the Rennaisance, the Enlightenment, and the Modern World. Nothing like these movements has ever been forthcoming from Islam. Conflating the two religions is, on some level, an exercise in futility.
In Islam, getting back to the basics means emulating Muhammad since according to Muslims he manifested the most perfect Muslim person as god’s final prophet.
His life is a model to all Muslims for all times. His actions are a template on which to measure and base Muslim actions, laws, morality, and faith for all time.
We must become familiar with this man and the actions the Muslims themselves admit he engaged in.
These include, as I state above, slavery, rape, thievery, lying, genocide, torture, terrorism, and extortion.
There’s no way around his vile record.
Islam is, at its root, an ideology based on the barbaric actions of a 7th Century brigand. If one knows this, the actions of the violent Jihadis becomes far less of a mystery, and more of an obvious consequence of paying scrupulous heed to the barbarous and bloody acts of Islam’s “holy” prophet over a millenium ago.
So based on Muhammad’s actions alone, and leaving aside Islam’s 1300 year record of mass murder and cultural annihilation and genocide, Islam is an execrable “religion”. It also should come as no surprise that, despite very brief periods of marginal enlightenment and putative tolerance for openness, that Islam’s main trajectory is always towards backwardness, hatred, and violence. The two nations who have the most resources to show the world what Islam truly can be, Iran and Saudi Arabia, have amply illustrated to the world what unlimited wealth and a dedication to the two main branches of Islam yields: Totalitarian hell holes of human degradation of the lowest order. Both are nearly identical in the horrors they unleash on their people and on the world. Islam is a nightmare of human bondage, hatred and horror in those exemplary Islamic Nations.
Let’s stop pretending it has much positive potential in the modern world – The Muslims can pretend this, but we don’t have to… Such daydreams are a fatal delusion and will only guarantee that the insurrection which Muslims are currently conducting in the West will continue unabated. This horrid tide of Islamic spreading and Islamic fascism must be halted and reversed if human kind has any hope of emerging from the nightmares Islam has unleashed in the world.
I also see little point in constantly conflating ancient transgressions which may or may not have happened with and among Christians with the ever spiraling reality of mayhem caused by Muslims for the sake of Islam today.
I don’t see any fanatical Christian Arabs strapping on the bombs to conduct genocidal murders of Jews in Israel. I don’t see Buddhists strapping on bombs or beheading Muslims in Thailand. I don’t see Christian Philippinos kidnapping and beheading Muslim or animist fellow Philippinos for the sake of Christ, or Hindus blowing up McDonalds across the planet because they’re outraged by the massive slaughtering of their Godhead. Those religions and cultures have proven their capacity to live, maybe not always perfectly, but to live among many others. It’s the Muslims who don’t fit in anywhere, and who require the submission, even of superior cultures and religions to their cave man creed.
We see Muslims across the globe rampaging and murdering for the sake of Islam and for Muhammad. We see Jihadis every day using extremely well founded Islamic arguments for their heinous acts of barbarity across the globe. The so-called moderates never challenge the justifications the Jihadis use – they spend most of their time trying to convince we infidels that the Jihadis have it all wrong. Wouldn’t their time be better spent convincing the Jihadis to STOP their atrocities? Why is their energy focused on convincing us about Islam? On some level this implies that our interpretation of Islam somehow is implicated in the terrorist acts of their brethren. What could be more upside-down in terms of reasoning?
I see plenty of so-called “moderate” Muslims obfuscating and attempting to mislead infidels by saying sweet nothings about the nature of Islam. What is their true intention? I am deeply suspect of all of these apologists. Let’s see them CONFRONT their Jihadi brethren, rather than papering over the truth about Islam. Let’s see them developing arguments which take the Jihadi mindset on directly. What we see above is a deft deflection – if Dr. Mansur is to be believed, the stand alone Koran is the sole source of Islam and its misinterpretation is at the root of all the bad actions of his fellow Muslims. If this is so, then where do the vile actions of Islam’s prophet fit into the scheme. Was Muhammad the best Muslim? Is he a man to be emulated, including his bloody lust for beheadings, torture, thievery, and mayhem? Or was he a bad Muslim for doing all those ugly things and more. Did their prophet misunderstand Islam as the Jihadis supposedly do? His life sure looked like a Jihadi life. His actions sure looked like Jihadi actions. His beheadings sure looked like Jihadi beheadings. His rapes, thievery, and mayhem sure looks like Jihadi rape, thievery, and mayhem.
So what would Dr. Mansur, or other apologists such as P. Ami have to say about the life of the “Prophet” Muhammad? Does his life have no bearing on Islam?
If you assert Islam has been hijacked by the Jihadis and their mullahs, there is much work to be done by Muslims to take Islam back.
The Jihadis definition of “infidel” includes the likes of the majority of western culture, including Americans. And they interpret the Koran as instruction to subjugate or destroy other cultures.
Our only response can be to defend our culture — and if that means taking the fight to them cause it is in our means, so be it.
The non-violent majority of which Dr. Mansur speaks has a long road to hoe. I cannot hold this majority in high regard unless they take control of Islam.
The centuries long conflict will just keep unfolding new chapters, unless Muslims such as Dr. Mansur can lead an Islamic Renaissance from within that ostracizes the Jihadis’ violent interpretation of the Koran. Even then, violent Islamic sects will remain, though more isolated.
On the other hand, if the violent interpretation of the Koran and Sunnah are closer to Islamic truth, there truly is no end in sight to this struggle.
I couldn’t sleep tonight thinking of Mr. Doodslag’s inability to understand my position. My son hasn’t slept well as he has flu the last two days and my sore throat is accompanied by sneezing so I might have caught his bug. I’m concerned that I’ll be as listless as my son for the next few days and will be unable to convey the contempt due to Mr. Doodslag.
During war one must pick a side. Being ambivalent is deadly. This danger is felt most strongly when war is of the civil variety. Brothers or neighbors each think themselves to understand the truth and in truth most of us are quite too dumb to not be led by rumors. War tends to stifle logic. We are convinced by urban myths that even those sharing our paradigm will view as absurdity in better times. There was a time when the Enlightened Left of France praised Thomas Paine and yet he later spent a number of months imprisoned by this Enlightened Left and was nearly executed merely for hinting they had taken their revolution past the boundaries of reason. Tell a beast not to eat that rotten meat and he might dine on you before returning to the putrid corpse. Mr. Doodslag is such an animal.
At no time have I apologized for Islam. To call me an apologist requires either a lack of caring for the meaning of the word or the inability to use words precisely. A lawyer for a defendant is not an apologist; he is simply stating a case using evidence. If he so happens to make his case against a prosecutor whose use of words is a monkeying of the sounds commonly associated with rhetoric, a jury who cannot differentiate between babble and meaning will bring judgment down as if it were a coin toss. There are enough readers on this site who understand English and give me hope for mutual understanding. I make no excuses for Jihadis at any time. I simply disagree that Islam cannot produce civilized people. There are a number of very devout Muslims, who studied Islam to a degree reserved for true scholars and somehow managed to be god fearing and decent human beings. That is not an apology. This is what one commonly refers to as a good point.
Mr. Doodslag has very many errors of logic in his arguments against my points. He first directs us to understand that since Mohamed was a vile human being, and he is the template by which Muslims measure themselves, ergo Islam is vile. That is fine as an idea and we have much understanding to gain from this insight into the enemy yet, there have been various instances, some very dramatic ones, when those who used Mohamed as their template were more tolerant then those who used Jesus. I discussed just a few in previous comments in this thread. I wish there were more examples of human decency in all cultures and some have fewer examples then others. I accept that we today find it difficult to call to duty enough decent Muslims who have the talent to combat their Jihadi brothers in Allah.
Mr. Doodslag continues his argument by extolling the fine culture that, in using Jesus as a template, produced our modern world. This comment is long enough so I won’t delve too deeply into the thinkers who disseminated the ideas of the Reformation. It is suffice to say that belief in G-d being One, coupled with an ability to have personal communion with G-d has produced a intellectual environment in which enough of the right people value individual rights and personal initiative. The following line is where Mr. Doodslag slips the tracks of reason. On one hand Mohamed is vile, so his religion is unredeemable in spite of the many examples where this conclusion is proven false. On the other hand, the template of Jesus is acceptable even though we find plenty of folk who used that model to do great evil. His proof, the current material supremacy of the West. I suppose Uncle Mao must be a fantastic example of man, as the Chinese seem to be gaining on us.
It is possible that someone reading this will wonder why I hate Western Culture. The most likely such person will continue to think that way as they have made up their mind on this subject and refuse to understand the actual words before them. They cannot understand the English language, as tradition has passed it to us, and refuse to confront their intellectual dishonesty. I want to dispel the idea that I abhor the West or wish it harmed. I consider Western Culture to have been the height of much of what humans have achieved. There is no science and little art that can compare to what the West achieved. That is not to say that science and art are the end all, be all of culture but they are what we often judge societies by. Yes, the West has done plenty of killing and conquering but who hasn’t? The issue we began discussing was whether Muslims could be decent human beings. It is absurd that we have to have this conversation. It is not unlike continuing the discussion of whether Rome was the capital of an Empire. It has been proven, time and again, that Muslims can be good and sometimes better then Christians. The writer of the above letter makes it clear that he abhors the ideology and actions of the Jihadis. He stands on the side of civilized people. So long as his behavior and words remains thus then this should be enough for us. I think it reasonable that we be skeptical of Muslims as current events and the history of their mortal primer, Mohamed, does indicate a wellspring of deception. Yet, Mr. Doorslag is more like the Jihadis then Mr. Mansur, as he binds Muslims to his limited reading of their culture just as they put all non-Jihadis in the boat with us. He goes so far as to call me an apologist and I dare him to use reason, not predisposed conjecture, to throw me into the pit he would throw Muslims into. Mr. Doorslag is a weak thinker and his ideas are the bastard children of greater brains then his stifling cranium could hold. Literacy is wasted on such fools. This reproach comes from a mind less great then what his stupid arrogance assumes his own mind to measure. One hopes his failings are obvious to all but himself and that my response has been superfluous. If the evil day came when men such as he held the sort of sway that he could do away with me, I may joyfully pray a last time and die with the knowledge that G-d is One. This would not be the first or last crime a tyrant committed against beings better then they.
P. Ami, I’ll let your rambling and incoherent ad hominem attack on me speak for itself.
I reiterate one of my previous points to you — familiarize yourself with a subject before your wax on so. That would be a good start.
One of my thrusts above has to do with Dr. Mansur’s complete omission of the fact that Islam is not solely defined by the Koran, but is based on a large body of writings which constitute Islamic laws, social customs, and history based on the life of Muhammad. The fact that he omits this critical data calls his honesty into question. He deftly attempts to depict the actions of violent Jihadis as a fundamental misinterpretation of the Koran – yet the facts don’t bear this argument out. The Koran is NOT the sole basis for Islam, nor are the actions of the Jihadis in any way a misinterpretation. Jihadis scrupulously base their actions as much on passages from the Koran as they do on the the behavior and actions of their so-called “prophet” Muhammad. That is the other body of work I refer to above as the Haditha and Suras.
So why does Dr. Mansur distort this fact? Either he doesn’t know anything about Islam, or he is deliberately fashioning his commentaries for an unknowing audience, one consisting of credulous non-Muslims eager (as P. Ami clearly is) to neither look to hard or think too much. What use is hearing comforting but meaninless little arguments about the niceness of Muslims. P. Ami — you haven’t a clue.
“To suggest the Koran preaches violence, as jihadi Muslims do by their conduct, or it’s message is reserved for a particular people, as understood by non-Muslims influenced by jihadi conduct, is a travesty against God of all creation, of Abraham and Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, of prophets known and unknown, and against the Koran.”
It is not a travesty – Islam was born in war and violence, and it grew solely because its followers were more effective at war than their enemies. To suggest an equivalence between Jesus and Muhammed is to pretend that a man who elevated the practise of war and violence to a mystical act is essentially the same as a men who healed the poor and sick, and who willingly suffered violence as an act of redemtption is to pretend that the essential stories of a religion have no bearing on their truth or value.
Doodslag, there is a vast difference between incoherence and good sense that requires effort to understand. Perhaps you are not used to having to think as you read. If you are incapable of understanding what I have written, you have proven two of my points, that you lack intellect and your arrogance has led you to opinions in spite of your deficiencies. An ad hominem attack on you is perfectly in order as you not only mischaracterized me as an apologist for Islam (a personal insult if I ever heard one) but also have failed, again and again, to address my points. You have asked for this ridicule as you have placed yourself in a forum where you do not belong, a forum of intellect and debate. Your writing contains neither.
The following is addressed to anyone who reads this, has made similar errors of logic as Mr. Doodslag, and has been swayed by his poor reasoning and lazy logic.
Mr. Mansur makes the following remarks, “Muslims believe as a matter of faith that the Koran is God’s Words revealed to Muhammad – is as infinite in its meaning (so does Koran describes itself) as is the infinity of God in all His attributes by which we, fallible humans, in our finitude struggle to comprehend Him.
“To quench their thirst a bird and an elephant drink water from the same pool. Their thirsts are quantitatively, perhaps even qualitatively, different and they remain different despite the fact they drink from the same pool.”
He then follows with this idea, “The problem with Islam is not the Koran, but Muslims and their respective understandings of the Koran that result in their differing conduct.”
I have not read the Koran more then once and I cannot assume to understand it better then Mr. Mansur. I did analyze Mr. Mansur’s letter and am qualified to make the following assessment of it. At no time does Mr. Mansur suggest that Jihadis misinterpret the Koran. He describes its infinitude that, as it happens, encompasses crazed and unholy murder as practiced by Jihadis. Jihadis comprehend the Koran well enough, according to their kind. Mr. Mansur’s character interprets the Koran in ways that appear to positively configure his way of life to our own. He may pray a few more times a day then I do and he circumcises his son at a different age then I do my own, but he does not view our society or culture as requiring him to be at war with us.
I would like to analyze a few more points in this letter that I find unbalanced.
“It might be said, on the contrary, infidels are those people who engage in evil that is life-denying, who wage war against freedom and democracy in our time. It might also be said that those who spread terror indiscriminately are infidels and need to be resisted and defeated.”
These sentences would have greater strength if he had chosen a different phrase then, “It might be said”. These opening words are not definitive enough and could suggest many deficiencies in his thought. Perhaps he has caught the Western infection of intellect where we suffer from a depreciated confidence in ideas and a hypersensitivity to authoritative statement. It could be that his English, while strong, is not quite confident enough to express his confidence in the idea he presents. His vague comment could also be a way to create wiggle room in his statement in which he directs our thought toward our own personal assumptions, while he hopes we miss his unsaid meaning. In other words, we might hope we mistake his allusions as directions. I cannot decipher which, if any, of these circumstances are true.
“The Koran as God’s Words is analogous to nature containing the beauty of the rose and the violence of tsunami. Neither nature nor God is to be blamed for the most sublime sunset followed soon after by a Katrina-type hurricane. Those who do not understand this can no more be faulted than faulting a deaf man for failing to appreciate Beethoven’s ninth symphony”.
Here, he again confirms that the Koran does contain violence. It seems Mr. Mansur was also assuring us that we, who do not hear G-d in the Koran, are only deaf not evil. As long as he finds us inculpable for our deafness then we have no problems between us. I’ll remain deaf to the Koran and he can keep listening to the voices in his head. Quite ironic that he chose the musical example of a piece written by a deaf man who must have appreciated his own 9th symphony in his own way. I wonder if this irony was intentional.
We must read what people write and guard against seeing in their words only what we expect. It appears that while not all of Dr. Mansur’s ideas are precise he has certainly provided a field of ideas on which we can see the sort of vegetables he would grow. I am nearly sure his version of Islam would not leech my own fields of their essential nutrients.
-Yawn- Sorry, not even a good try. Weak and boring in fact. Know why? Easy! Where are the tolerant muslims? Where? Didn’t see CAIR condemn Palestinians for dancing in the streets and passing out laffy taffy on 911. Nor did we we see any reaction to the millions of intolerants who freaked out over the nerve of infidels to draw a comic of M’hammed. Or Theo Van Gogh’s murder. Nothing. No where. You get the idea.
Americans, especially, are flat out BORED with the idea that Islam is somehow magically entitled to illusions of supremecy over all others – a double standard that is explained away by subtle nuances like your essay.
So if you really wish to lull Americans back to sleep, perhaps the first thing would be to dismantle the concept of Sha Ria Law. Palestine would be a great place to start – all that played jazz about shame and honor, gender apartheid and honor killings and maybe, just maybe put a halt on the intolerant, murderous, corrupt, illegetimate, death loving losers in all those militias. Just an idea.
P. Ami’s rebuttal focus on the concept that “Muslims believe as a matter of faith that the Koran is God’s Words revealed to Muhammad – is as infinite in its meaning…” seems a diversion from the point Morton Doodslag is making.
The logical conclusion of Jihadi imperialism is either constant conflict with western culture, or a reinterpretation of Islam by a seemingly absent Muslim mainstream to ostracize Jihadi culture.
Left alone, Jihadis will overrun Islam completely, as indicated by recent polls in the UK. From memory, I recall 40% of the Muslims in the UK would prefer to live under Sharia Law.
If trivialized by the Islamic mainstream, the Jihadis will likely break off into more “Islamic” sects.
But where’s the incentive for “pacifist” Muslims to raise the ire of the Jihadis when there are plenty of “infidels” willing to take on the battle?