The Climate Change Debate: Where Are We Now?
The Heartland Institute’s 7th annual International Conference on Climate Change, which ended on Wednesday, could be considered a success on several levels. The more than 300 attendees were brought up to date on the latest research and listened to some top-notch speakers make presentations on various aspects of the debate over anthropogenic global warming. And there were the usual informal exchanges between colleagues that serve to generate ideas and impart knowledge.
But perhaps most importantly, there was a spirit of community among like-minded professionals, some of whom live otherwise lonely lives in their chosen fields of academia and professional associations solely because they do not accept, or because they disagree with, the still-dominant AGW theory. This is real. People pay a professional and financial price for their skeptical beliefs and the ICCC-7 gives many of these brilliant men and women a chance to come together and support each other. One attendee told me it was a “liberating experience” because he had become so used to carefully sounding out colleagues regarding their views on AGW when first meeting them. At the conference, he felt much more at ease and was surprised to actually find himself seeking out strangers to engage in conversation.
This point was brought home by former NASA physicist Hal Doiron, who read an email he received from a colleague whose professional life was, for all intents and purposes, over because of his climate realism. The apostate scientist was unable to gain tenure or even obtain permanent employment in his chosen field despite publishing more than 60 books and articles. There is a war being waged against climate realists — on campus, in the board rooms of foundations and think tanks, and especially in the media, whose practitioners willingly carry water for the scaremongerers, the smear merchants, and those who seek to destroy anyone who challenges AGW orthodoxy.
There was also a sense of optimism among many attendees that the tide may be turning in their favor, or that at least the momentum of AGW proponents is slowing. Veteran Congressman Jim Sensenbrenner, who spoke at Tuesday’s luncheon, highlighted some of the progress made since the last time he spoke to the ICCC in 2009:
When I last spoke, the House of Representatives was poised to pass the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade bill; the United Nations was promising the extension and expansion of the Kyoto Protocol; and President Obama was touting Spain as our model for a massive increase in renewable energy subsidies.
Three years later, cap-and-tax is dead; the Kyoto Protocol is set to expire; and Spain recently announced that it eliminated new renewable energy subsidies.
We won on these issues because we were right. We highlighted the devastating economics of the proposed solutions and cried foul when proponents tried to bridge gaps in scientific understanding with fear instead of knowledge.
Czech President Vaclav Klaus pointed out the fact that climate “fundamentalists” are being forced to keep a lower profile:
The alarmism has subsided, they want to make it “low profile.” Declarations such as the one in Dr. Pachauri´s manifesto from 1989 that “global warming is the greatest crisis ever faced collectively by humankind” are no longer popular. The former radical alarmists, even the scientists connected with the IPCC, changed their tactic. More and more often we hear carefully worded statements that “some environmentalists, supported by the media, exaggerated the conclusions that had been carefully formulated by scientists.” We know that they were not “carefully formulated.” These “conclusions” were very easy to reformulate.
Dodging the Waxman-Markey bullet may have been a high point, but, as many speakers at the conference pointed out, the failure to pass cap and tax gave Americans only temporary respite. The EPA’s war on coal will result in the closure of 319 coal-fueled generating units totaling 42,895 megawatts, about 13 percent of the nation’s coal fleet, according to the Sierra Club. This will result in consumers being hit with a 10-15% increase in their electric bills by 2015. That’s an extra $150-$330 per year.
So while much has been accomplished, much remains to be done. Former Apollo astronaut and senator from New Mexico Harrison Schmitt believes the number one priority for the skeptical community is to “recapture” youngsters in the K-12 grades. It’s too late for this generation, he says, because they have become so thoroughly indoctrinated. But Schmitt believes it is critical for the future that young people be given the opportunity to be taught both sides of the climate change debate rather than brainwashed to accept the AGW religion.
Beyond that, there is a real problem with trying to get the media to report the position of climate realists accurately. This was brought home by protestors at the conference, many of whom carried signs saying “Climate Change is Real.” As president and CEO of the Heartland Institute Joseph Bast made note of on several occasions, the vast majority of skeptical scientists believe that the climate is indeed getting warmer. That is not now (nor has it ever been) the issue. What climate realists are “denying” (if that’s even the right word) is: 1) that man is primarily, or solely, responsible for the increase in temperature and 2) that the effects of climate change will be catastrophic for humanity.
NASA’s climate hysteric Dr. James Hansen believes that sea levels will rise 75 meters (236 feet) by 2500 if we don’t do something to curtail greenhouse gas emissions. That claim, when repeated during the breakfast session on Tuesday, elicited gales of laughter from the audience. How is it possible to predict anything with any accuracy 500 years into the future? But Hansen is taken seriously by the scientific community and climate realists are smeared as tools of the oil and gas industry.
The problem is that skeptics have allowed the AGW proponents and their allies in the media to define them. Writing in Forbes, Heartland senior fellow James Taylor reported on a recent survey of meteorologists and how their skepticism regarding AGW is used by climate alarmists:
According to American Meteorological Society (AMS) data, 89% of AMS meteorologists believe global warming is happening, but only a minority (30%) is very worried about global warming.
This sharp contrast between the large majority of meteorologists who believe global warming is happening and the modest minority who are nevertheless very worried about it is consistent with other scientist surveys. This contrast exposes global warming alarmists who assert that 97% of the world’s scientists agree humans are causing a global warming crisis simply because these scientists believe global warming is occurring. However, as this and other scientist surveys show, believing that some warming is occurring is not the same as believing humans are causing a worrisome crisis.
[...]
In another line of survey questions, 53% of respondents believe there is conflict among AMS members regarding the topic of global warming. Only 33% believe there is no conflict. Another 15% were not sure. These results provide strong refutation to the assertion that “the debate is over.”
President Klaus laid out the major challenges facing attendees:
Discussing technicalities is not sufficient, because the supporters of the GWD are not interested in them. We are not dealing with people who are authentically interested in science and in incremental changes in temperature and their causes. For them, the temperature data are just an instrument in their plans to change the world, to suppress human freedom, to bring people back to underdevelopment. Their ideas are the ideas of ideologues, not of scientists or climatologists. Data and sophisticated theories will never change their views.
We have to accept that they have succeeded in establishing the religion of environmentalism as the official religion of Western society, as the religion which asks for a radical transformation of the whole Western civilization. We – at least some of us – have to play with them in the arena chosen by them.
The forces arrayed against climate realists are “organized and due to it are able to push this doctrine further ahead because to do so is in their narrowly defined interests,” says Klaus. It’s not about the planet, stupid. It’s about the money. And the power. And the simple, human desire to control. Global warming is the bludgeon that the coalition of governments, corporations, and environmentalists who have been empowered by the United Nations through the funding of non-governmental organizations (NGOs) are using to impose a new social paradigm on the world — one that would destroy capitalism, limit human freedom, and, not coincidentally, make them masters of the earth.
Can it be stopped? Next month in Rio de Janeiro, the Rio+20 conference on “sustainability” will be held. Twenty years ago at the first Rio conference — the first “Earth Summit” — nations adopted “Agenda 21″ — a blueprint for disaster. As the conference website states:
Twenty years after the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio, where countries adopted Agenda 21 – a blueprint to rethink economic growth, advance social equity and ensure environmental protection – the UN is again bringing together governments, international institutions and major groups to agree on a range of smart measures that can reduce poverty while promoting decent jobs, clean energy and a more sustainable and fair use of resources.
Rio+20 is a chance to move away from business-as-usual and to act to end poverty, address environmental destruction and build a bridge to the future.
Reading the reports and research papers on that website is extremely illuminating — and not a little frightening. This is not just a question of redistributing wealth on a worldwide scale. Resource sharing, technology transfers, no intellectual property rights, world taxes, transfer payments — it’s all there in black and white if anyone cares to read about it. You couldn’t help but feel a little dismayed looking around at the 300 climate realists who attended the conference and realize how small and disorganized the opposition to this juggernaut really is.
But fewer people have accomplished far more in the past. A handful of colonists challenged the mightiest empire of the 18th century and came out winners. Perhaps if we keep that example in mind, it will embolden and inspire the rest of us to keep fighting the good fight.
There simply isn’t an alternative.






Sounds like it was an excellent conference. I am SOOOO impressed w/President Klaus!
Yes, Mr. Moran, this is all good and accurate information. Thank you for posting it. But this essay is far from comprehensive (and light years from being exhaustive) viz “where we are now” in the anthropogenic CO2-induced global warming “debate” (made so only by the derelict MLM).
Nobody Important will not attempt to write the rest of the story here in a Comment, but PJM readers are invited, once again, to visit Another Slow News Day’s various pages devoted to this “debate.” Navigating across the branches of ASND’s Science / Global Warming menu tree produces a plethora of sub-topical menu selections on the subject, but visitors to the site can also begin, if they so desire, on ASND’s main AGW page here.
http://anotherslownewsday.wordpress.com/global-warming/
You’re welcome again.
Sheesh.
This guy used to come here regularly and write endless vacuous posts about how AGW will have us all starving in a few years. He’s a confirmed zealot and was always citing crap resources (with provided links) that sometimes even debunked his claims on the religion of AGW.
Notice he’s at the earliest of posters here where it seems to be his habit to be awake in the very early hours of the day, or up late at night. He has a job as a speculative university prof, doing nothing important, which fits with his moniker here of “nobody important”.
He supports junk science and will breathe his last breath claiming that man is destroying gaia. A holy-roller of AGW like holy-rollers everywhere but his religion, as it does with zealots, has got him by the boo-boo and he can’t seem to fashion logic or sense. By citing “proof” from a liberal blog, he seems to think that that will change the minds of conservatives who inherently know that AGW is garbage.
Fortunately, he doesn’t go on and on like he used to. But he still thinks he’s doing “gaia’s work” by referencing garbage.
There are those who cannot be self-critical and, when convinced they’re right, refuse to acknowledge they aren’t.
Interesting how social equity/redistribution of wealth gets mixed in with fixing the climate. One might almost suspect that the “growing gap between rich and poor” is the REAL cause of global warming. Progressivism – it can even change the weather!
Just why do we need bureaucrats conjuring up and telling us what is sustainable? I think the free market does this nicely without any help. If you can afford something you buy it, if not, you don’t. When something you used to buy gets more expensive, you either scale back, subsititute something else or the marketplace comes up with a new, cheaper solution. So anytime the goverment wants to get involved, the best answer is: Don’t help, we don’t need you.
And when Susie comes home and says the polar bears are drowning, calmly tell Suzie that polar bears can swim many miles to the next piece of ice or to land.
Please watch for the back door approach. Usually when they can’t get what they want by being direct, they will take a stealth approach, an indirect approach or an incremental approach. They seldom just go away.
Also tell Susie that there are more polar bears in existence now than there were thirty-five years ago. Also polar bears survived quite nicely during the last warm spell of the earth, about one thousand years ago.
I never wanted to tout my bona fides on this site, but I have been forced to “come out’, so to speak (but in using that phrase, I’d like to say for the record that I am NOT gay. I have no issue with gay people and otherwise support them in everything they do, particularly in their right to marry and have public intercourse. But lest there is some confusion, I am NOT, I say NOT, gay. I’m not gay).
Any hoo, my point is to state that I am, in fact, an expert in all things “Earthly”. I am an expert in the Climate. I am an expert in the field of Climate Studies and have several organic degrees in various nature-driven sciences. I can say, without question, that the Earth is experiencing DRAMATIC climate change. The consensus is that the Earth’s sweet crust will either heat by 12 to 16 degrees, or will cool down by about 18 degrees by the year 2029. This WILL happen; the science is stated. We have one chance now, and only one chance, to prevent this global catastrophe…we must begin a plan of comprehensive wealth capitization. This, as I see it, is the only sensible course left to us. Deep down, you all agree with me.
“The consensus is that the Earth’s sweet crust will either heat by 12 to 16 degrees, or will cool down by about 18 degrees by the year 2029.”
Kudos for pointing out in your usual subtle way just how uncertain the projections are over even as short a term as 17 full seasonal cycles.
If there is that much uncertainty in the near term, I’m not placing any bets on what the results will be five centuries from now.
Not that I’ll be around to notice.
cheers
eon
If that crust is a really good Dutch Apple one, I’m in.
Sorry Ward, but the crust does allow us a place to live and grow those apples for that pie. Thankfully, overall the earth is cooling so that we have hope for a nice thick crust in the future. Al Gore is a soothsayer, you know?
LovelyEarth, NG (Not Gay):
What on earth is an “organic degree”? Organic chemistry? Organic farming?Organic psychology? I take you at your word. I beleive you when you say you have an “organic” background. In fact, I wonder if you are not really full of something quite organic.
Oh, Yooper, Yooper, Yooper…
Why haven’t you caught on yet? LE is a parody. She is NOT one of Them.
She’s hilarious!
“the Earth’s sweet crust will either heat by 12 to 16 degrees”
Excellent. That’s when the tomato sauce and cheese gets all bubbly, and the veggies get a little brown…
Well, I can assure you that I am mostly sure that you are not gay. Within a spread of +15 to -18 degrees.
Your climate bona fides however, are at this time un-cited.
You are neither an expert in climate nor a scientist. You may have a degree in some pseudo science, or just delusions of grandeur.
“The consensus is that the Earth’s sweet crust will either heat by 12 to 16 degrees, or will cool down by about 18 degrees by the year 2029. This WILL happen; the science is stated.”
Do you realize contradictory claims are NOT concensus? Your delusions suggest serious mental illness, go see your doctor immediately.
I have no problem with gays, but I have a massive problem with ecofascist fearmongering. The fact of the matter is: Even if this were true, I’d prefer suffering the consequences of “Global Warming” but still being free to living on my knees with the Government telling me how to live my life, how many children I am allowed to have and so on in order to prevent a “Climate Change” like it has been happening over and over ever since the world began.
Lovely Earth, were we high-school classmates? It sounds as if you slept through the same science classes as I did.
I can’t tell if you are being serious or if this whole post is a parody. Either way, I found it hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.
L.E you are quite the satirist, and okay, I guess you are not gay (snicker, snicker).
Wonderfully ironic. Let me offer one certainty, also. I am flipping a coin. It will come to rest heads, or tails. Deep down, you will all agree with me.
I have a PhD and I am very smart. That makes me an expert on climate. Actually, my dissertation is in Old Norse. So I’m waiting for the earth to get as warm as it was during the 450 years of the free Icelandic nation from approximately 800 AD to about 1250 AD. During that time, the ice cap between (today’s Canada) and Greenland was 200 or more miles farther north. They grazed cattle and grew wheat on the southwest coast of Greenland. There were wild grapes and prairie flowers up to what is now the Arctic Circle. When it gets warmer than that, I’ll start to worry.
Can you source your comments on the extent of the Greenland Ice cap in the MWP? I do know that they are now growing a lot of potatoes in places where they could not twenty years ago. http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1001/p01s02-wogn.html
I really can’t find the ‘places’ in the books. If you look at the Vinland sagas and reconstructions of their showplaces, you will get a good idea. But that’s not what you want and it was so long ago that I forgot which of the commentaries and historical analyses I read.
There were actually two western settlements in Greenland. The climate changed and drove the last away in about 1400. Then came the little ice age that lasted until the 19th century.
Right on, Rico. Also at that time what is now the American south-west became uninhabitable due to the heat and aridity. The last poor souls in the area resorted to cannibalism. At the same time people in Scandinavia drank wine and grew grapes.
For the second year in a row I have a 9th grader in honors science class with a final project due next month’proving’ some marker of AGW. How the heck is this considered science? The markers he has to consider are heat waves, hurricanes and other nonsense. He asked the teacher if he could do a project in opposition, and she told him he could try but he wouldn’t find any supporting data. Arrrrghh!
I agree. K-12 is lost. The teachers were the first to go…
Gork,
Have him do ‘global warming in history’. When the Romans were in England, they grew wine grapes and had extensive baths and plantations. When the climate collapsed in about 250 AD or whenever, they withdrew.
In Scandinavia at this same time, the seas rose and, some say, created the Baltic Sea, which up to then was sometimes more like a lake. The rising waters inundated the costal regions of Sweden and drove out the Goths, who migrated all the way down to the Crimea.
During the next warming period starting in about 700 AD, agriculture was so productive, so many people survived in Norway that they had to emigrate to Iceland. It was basically filled by about 900 AD. The physical stature of the costal Norwegians was about the same as it is today because they had so much food. 500 years later, during the little ice age, they were measurably smaller by about a foot or more.
She could point out all the benefits of global warming: more arable land for crops, more marginal grazing space, more navigable waters, lower world mortality since more people freeze to death than die of heat. There is more CO2, which is an important building block of plant life. The sky will be cloudier due to more moisture in the atmosphere, thus more rainfall when there is diurnal cooling. Moreover, with the increased cloud condition, the pump is primed for the next wave of global cooling since less sun hits the earth. All good.
In my experience, teachers, generally, are a group of people now who find it more important to “belong” than to be independent thinkers. In my day, teachers were known for their individuality. But, over the years, that bit where being a popular teacher (ie: well-liked by the students) was more important than actually requiring kids to learn.
Probably went off the rails starting in the 1960′s when hippies were in-school and when they got their teaching degrees some years later, patterned themselves after the teachers that were the most popular. But what they forgot about was if they actually learned anything in their classes vs. just liking to go to that class because the teacher was nice.
Add to that the fact that today’s teachers are less adroit and far too “socially aware” compared to teachers of yesteryear. By that I mean, my teachers couldn’t give a tinker’s cuss about the social goings-on in the student body but when I was substituting, the teachers in the lounge regularly discussed what the student body social scene was. I rolled my eyes and just ate my sandwich. This was in several high-schools, not just one.
The whole teaching “scene” nowadays is one of the reasons I elected not to pursue such a career. The social studies teachers in three of the high-schools were there to be the football coach and all the jocks were in their classes and they were largely all pretty stupid, but got good grades because their “teachers” made it so. But the regular teacher maintained their childhood fantasy by being the coach, thus being the big fish in the little pond.
Somewhere, the priorities of the adults got hit by an asteroid and sent way off-kilter. High schools became little social centers instead of places to prepare kids for college and/or the job-market.
It’s very sad and also pathetic to see teachers who themselves act like high-school kids and instead of having an air of authority and respect, are still struggling with the adolescent need to fit in.
Did you ever think that once you could finally sit in a teachers’ room and listen to the conversations that you have had to have been able to sit in the teachers’ room back when you were a student to actually know what your teachers gave a tinker’s dam about?
Hey, teachers are what they are, and you chose not to be one, your influence on what they are, went “poof.”
A lot of what you describe happened in the high school I taught in, but that did not keep me from teaching more or less my way, and also gave me a chance to influence the school.
In general students, teachers, and society all have gotten a lot more into social stuff, networking and other wise. Culture evolves for better and for worse. Libs despair or snarl that it is not going their way enough. Righties despair or snarl that it has gone the way of the libs. If you want to be a player, you have to play. Otherwise, you are left calling in to sports talk radio saying, “I can’t believe that we are paying this bum $10 million a year…and he posts on Twitter.”
Not only is your post very poorly written, which, for a “teacher” indicates a lack of diligence, it is also very presumptive of my skill set and ability to extrapolate permutations and possibilities regarding people.
Additionally, the assumption that people have become more social as an “evolutionary” process is pathetic and relies heavily on the desire for everyone’s need to be “connected”. I still submit that that supposed need emanates from the child epicenter and fills a void they (the teachers) didn’t get in their formative years.
I don’t do facebook or any other such garbage and submit that once the newness wears off, the whole epilogue of social interaction sites will be relegated to the trash-pile of history, like the AMC car company. Interesting, to a point but serves very little practical purpose.
Teachers today compared to teachers of far past decades really didn’t care much about what kids did in their social lives. They tended to act like adults and were adults. You not only missed my point entirely but you defended the desire of today’s teachers to be socially involved with their students which is not only inappropriate but hazardous as well.
Why do you assume that I want to be a “player”. Your use of street-slang indicates a propensity to identify with adolescent lingo and be hip. I’m not hip. Don’t care to be hip. I think being hip is total bullsh*t. I think what you said is also total bullsh*t and you need to go put on your big-boy pants and go do some work for a change.
Correction, third paragraph should start: Teachers of past decades compared to teachers of today. Sorry for the confusion.
Again, there is nothing wrong with studying the Earth’s Climate and perhaps even making forecasts.
The problem is when politicians look at these studies and then use it as a wedge to “reallocate resources” to “save the earth.” At that point you’d better hang on to your wallet.
The claims of Rio to stop growth and eliminate poverty are contradictory. Rio is the unholy alliance of Marxism and radical environmentalism. The proper response to Rio+20 is for developed nations to tell the UN to cancel it or all UN funding will cease.
When one claims be an “expert”, they are also usually a legend in their own mind as well,
.
Noted conservative writer, Michael Fumento, had some interesting things to say this week in a column at Salon dot com about the Heartland Institute and some of its “fellow travelers.”
Salon is bad for your health, SteveB. Did it make you feel better to call this writer a conservative writer? I have never seen a conservative writer on the Salon website.
Whenever I see predictions of rising sea levels due to the polar ice caps melting, I can’t help but wonder if people have forgotten a simple scientific fact. That would be the fact that if temperatures are warm enough to melt ice, they can also make water eventually evaporate. That’s how it rises into the sky to become rain.
What an intelligent design.
You seem to be completely uneducated in Chemistry and Physics. This is why we let experts decide things, and not you. But congratulations on understanding that water evaporates.
“This will result in consumers being hit with a 10-15% increase in their electric bills by 2015. That’s an extra $150-$330 per year.”
- This is pure hogwash. The amount of natural gas we are harvesting will more than make up for the shut down in coal plants. Anyway, old coal plants spit out more harmful substances than green house gases.
- The Heartland Alliance is doing so well that it cannot afford to hold any more conferences. That I believe is the free market saying that the Heartland Alliance is full of it.
Unscrubbed coal emissions contain a lot more sulpur dioxide,which turns out to be an atmospheric a cooling agent. Ironically, reducing sulpur emissions may have contributed to warming. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t scrub, because sulphur emission do other nasty things, but the science is more complicated on both sides than the true believers have time or inclination to acknowledge.
I doubt that you could measure it though.
I apologize, the Heartland Institute. I would also like to point out that not one of their speakers was a climatologist.
Rubbish; many of the speakers are scientists of various sorts who study climate, which makes them climatologists.
Except that by accelerating the schedule, they’re forcing the capital expenditures to be a lot more concentrated.
You did realize that these power plants cost money to build, didn’t you?
One can only imagine how bad things would be if AGW WERE messing up the climate, because as it is, this Memorial Day weekend, we have a hurricane off the west coast, two tropical storms off the east coast, a record-breaking heat wave in the center of the country and drought induced fires burning all over the southwest. We have had an epic and early tornado season, and a winter without snow in the northeast.
If someone were paranoid, they might imagine that something WAS screwing up the weather. Just saying.
Be careful Dwight. You’re not being politically correct for the climate change denialist crowd.
Careful, Steve B,
There are those who believe that climate change occurs. But you assume that because we don’t believe that it’s caused by humans, or that humans can do anything about it, that we’re worthy of dismissal.
Please explain how much CO2 has been “released” or “caused” by humans in the past 100 years as opposed to ONE single volcanic eruption in the same period of time, then compare the quantitative values while extrapolating how much climate change occurred due to the volcano.
Thank you, I eagerly await your response.
I understand your point and generally agree, but volcanic eruptions include a lot of aerosols, which induce COOLING as in the year without a summer after Tambora. Man’s CO2 emissions, especially now that we have cut down on the sulphur aerosols, COULD be seen as much higher net warmers, than the CO2 in volcanic eruptions. Still, I really don’t think that there is much that we can do about it, one way or another, even if we felt that we had to.
Your hurricane did not materialize because the water isn’t warm enough off of the East coast this early in the season, but keep tuned in for real hurricanes from late July through September when the water will be warm enough. On the rest of it, typical weather for this time of year, Dwight. Pay attention again next Spring. Here is a heads up for you: Global warming cannot be determined by watching the US Weather reports during the last six months. Armageddon, I’m sure. That goes for you too, SteveB/AGWalarmist/Colorado
Again, I follow the your logic, as climate does not exist, supposedly, except in 30-year periods. I am not trying to prove that AGW exists, but when we have one of the warmest winters with the least snow that I have ever experienced, I am going to mention it, just as I would if we had one of the coldest ever. We have not had any of those cold winters recently.
Here’s a question for you. Is it more unfair to ask a warmist about why we had a really cold winter or a denier about why we had a really warm winter, or is it exactly the same?
“we have a hurricane off the west coast, two tropical storms off the east coast,”
–and this is abnormal, how? And I’m SURE you have solid data that can irrefutably tie these ‘abnormal’ events to AGW…yeah?
“a record-breaking heat wave in the center of the country”
–Let me try something out on you that I hear from YOUR types all the time: “Weather is not climate!11!!1!1!” Seriously…where were you idiots when we had record breaking lows all over the pace the last few years?
“and drought induced fires burning all over the southwest.”
–Okay…and….??? You are aware that these are normal phnomenon, don’t you?
“We have had an epic and early tornado season,”
–”Epic” early? Oh, do tell: Could you explain the scientific parameters that consitute ‘Epic?’
“and a winter without snow in the northeast.”
–Allow me to retort: http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/23/us/northeast-weather/index.html
Again, where were morons like you for the past few years? Dumbass.
Touchy, touchy! I believe I put my observations in the proper context. Basically, I said what your own source says, “The blustery blast (in April) follows a mild winter that saw little snow and the warmest March on record.
“The last time we had a big snowstorm across the East Coast was back in October,” when fall foliage was still on the trees, said CNN Meteorologist Rob Marciano.
“This has been a crazy, crazy winter” in the region, he said.
You’re makin’ mah point!
Here’s something for you to cogitate on, Mr. Touchy:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/05/28/global-warming-skeptics-know-more-about-science-new-study-claims/
Suck it.
Sheesh, Dwight. You haven’t been making any point. The weather is just fine here in the Rocky Mountains today. How about for you?
Touchy? I believe you’re the one that came onto this thread as a smartass knowitall AGW supporter.
I merely debunked your crap of a spam post (notice you posted the EXACT same thing on the weather preparedness thread above).
You made no ‘point’ except that you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about…spam-boy.
By the way, spam-boy…it’s spelled “my”, not ‘mah’. Unless you’re 13 years old, which considering the noraml quality of your posts, is probably very likely.
Really? Did you evah heah the song “Mah, mah, mah, don’t tell lahs, keep fidelty in your haid”? If not, Mr Lucky will fill you in.
No, sorry; I don’t do drugs. Maybe that would help with reading some of your posts.
Let’s go on and on debating if climate change is real, meanwhile the droughts continue in the midwest and our grandchildren will starve if the bread basket dries up. It’s not just about you. Listen, the first 30 years of my life, Western PA, snow in late November, the last 20 years, no snow in Western PA in late November. I don’t want my grandchildren to be the frogs in the pot of warm water that’s on a burner. Have a good day
By the by, there are many adverse affects that could be mentioned beyond Scandinavia and growing grapes, as in more bugs and mosquitos to pass disease.
Again, I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t want my grandchildren to suffer. If we can do something about it , shouldn’t we. Think of them. That’s partly where we’ve went wrong, not thinking about 6 generations out. !!! Have a good day.
Oh and one other thing… what kind of civilization puts space shuttles into space, but leaves it progeny frightened for their grandchildren to eat? I for one am not going to be a happy camper when my grandchildren aren’t eating because it’s too expensive. What have we done?