The Chimp Cartoon: When Race Becomes Monkey Business
What do you see in the editorial cartoon below?
I see an editorial cartoon combining the too real absurdity of two current events:
- The signing of the “stimulus,” a nearly $800 billion dollar spending bill that Democrats forced through the House and Senate without reading.
- The tabloidesque horror of a Connecticut chimpanzee that severely mauled a woman before being shot down by police officers it attempted to attack.
The editorial cartoonist was clearly intoning that a deranged chimp couldn’t have authored a bill any worse than the boondoggle created by Nancy Pelosi in her little fiefdom we call the House of Representatives.
Like clockwork, however, the angry spoiled children of the media left race-baiting industry cried “Wolf!” “Racist!”
Here we go, yet again:
A cartoon likening the author of the stimulus bill, perhaps President Barack Obama, with a rabid chimpanzee graced the pages of the New York Post on Wednesday.The drawing, from famed cartoonist Sean Delonas, is rife with violent imagery and racial undertones. In it, two befuddled-looking police officers holding guns look over the dead and bleeding chimpanzee that attacked a woman in Stamford, Connecticut.
“They’ll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill,” reads the caption
Should we forgive the author of this rant, Sam Stein of the Huffington Post, for being too ignorant to know that a botoxed, pasty-faced white woman is behind the stimulus bill?
People like Al Sharpton are chomping at the bit to label any criticism of Obama as ‘racist’- and to them, the sight of a chimpanzee (which is not a monkey) has to be a racial insult except when it’s directed at Republicans such as George Bush or Condelezza Rice.
The eleventh commandment, Thou shalt not mock a democrat, if yee do yee shall be condemmed a racest for all time.
When I first saw the cartoon, I thought it was completely hilarious. I mean, equating the stupidity of the stimulus bill with the antics of a rabid chimp? Hilarious. Of course, I forgot this was the new America, and in the new America we must always consider race first.
So Thank God for the Huffington Post. Without it, I may have never snapped out of my insensitive, arrogant right-wing slumber.
I would agree that the “target” of the cartoon is Congressional Democrats, not Obama. I would also agree that the cartoon is incredibly lame.
Wait, what about all of thar ChimpyHalibitrunBushHitler nonsense non-stop for 8 years.
What hypocrites. What spoiled childern. They will destroy us.
WHO WROTE the stupid stimulus bill??? Nancy Pelosi, NOT Pres. Obama . . . . end of discussion.
I looked at some of the comments over at HuffPo – they seemed to spring from an unfortunate intersection of three characteristic “liberal” traits:
A. The ability to miss the point of every topic under discussion, without exception,
B. The ability to see a racial component into everything, whether it’s there or not, and
C. the assumption of absolute intellectual superiority, combined with the actual brainpower of a box of rocks. (or is it a bag of hammers? I always confuse the two.)
Am I the only one who sees this?
Sraight out the saul alinksy book.
finding a trigger to go ballistic to create class warfare is how they operate.
Actually they teach us in evolution man came from apes. This is a mere extension of darwinism.
By the Way, sharpton forgets this Pork was written by congress in the first place. He thinks we think it was written by the Pres. the Pres signed it.
the comments over at the HuffPost are truly frightening. I’d be surprised if anyone here can get through more than a dozen.
Barack Obama is way over his head. His administration is becoming a joke. We are therefore going to see a dramatic increase of the race card in the near future. Why not? It’s worked in the past. That’s the number one reason why the shallow and poorly read Obama captured the presidency.
Bryan, you only need to read one. All the others are simply paraphrasing and repackaging.
I’ll take the side that it was lame and stupidly crossed the line on 3 matters enough that it should be unacceptable to most Americans.
1. It may have been intended for Congress, but the cartoonist made it about Obama by what he drew by only having a single chimp vs. a group of them that could plausibly been labelled “deranged Congresscritters”.
2. It violated the standing taboo, based on deep American trauma, of depicting our elected national leader assassinated.
3. Cartoon convention says you never, ever depict blacks you wish to ridicule as apes. There are certain “racist” or “ethnically offensive” stereotypes one avoids in cartoons. For example, the NY Post has somehow yet to depict Chuck Schumer as a hook-nosed Jew in a beanie-cap slavering all over himself as Wall Street types shove fistfuls of money at him. Apparantly the Post fears the immense power of NYC Jews, and gives NYC blacks little thought on what sort of cartoons pass muster.
It is something that Right Wing Republicans will be tempted to do as “payback” for the years when Lefties depicted the wide-mouthed, slightly jut-eared Bush as “McChimpy”. And Obama has world class jut-ears, close-cropped hair, pronounced jaw and small nose that can easily be made into an apelike caricature. And NOT savaging Obama as a black ape would mean “A double standard exists!!”
But it would be stupid.
Going after Obama with racial overtones would further fix in peoples minds outside the White, Southern Fundie Base that Republicans are a Party of Bigots, unwelcoming of minorities and anyone that fails to pass a series of Right Wing litmus tests.
So after hearing 8 years of ‘chimpy’ jokes, suddenly equating the president with a chimp is off the table? Riiiiight…
I wouldn’t try to defend the Post in this case. Comparisons of blacks to subhuman primates were common enough in the past that the Post cannot claim ignorance. Publishing that cartoon was in shockingly poor taste.
I’ve been saying via various blog comments that comparing Obama to a chimp is 100% morally valid. Quite simply, it is not the right or the Bush supporters that decided President = Chimp was fair game. It is the rabid drooling left that went that route.
Now they are unhappy with it? Too F-%4#*-g bad, we aren’t asking for your approval to do what you have done for eight years.
Here is an interesting and effective tactic. I have said this good-naturedly to a number of Aftican-mericans ( I live in the DC area ).
Just say, “it’s a good thing racism no longer is a problem in America.” Then act like you actually, really mean it.
Do this, and it will force the race baiters to the defensive. THEY will have to explain how the country that voted hugely for Obama is still racist. (I have responded by mentioning, “yes, racism is still a problem, just look at Reverend Lowry’s obscene anti-white racism during the inauguration benediction, etc…)
In other words, everyone, start ASSUMING racism is over. Just ASSUME it, and start from there. The left has triumphed by just assuming America is (uniquely) racist, Capitalism is corrupt, etc etc. They ASSUME it from the start, and thus never get called on their foundations, only on the edges.
So start ASSUMING, I think correctly, that racism is (all but) dead, that what does exist is targeted at whites AS MUCH AS anyone else, and refuse to back down from these true assumptions.
It is amazing how flustered the race-baiters become. They are used to craven groveling in apoogia to such an accusation, and cannot handle a forthright stare in the eyes by someone who simply refuses to accept their wrong-headed and insulting point-of-view.
Racism is over. Stand up and stare them in they eye when you say it. You’ll be amazed by the results.
(In reality, I don’t believe racism IS entirely “over” completely, but I do believe such a statement is not even slightly less truthful than the one that accuses me or my country of being inherently racist. If they are going to live that lie, I am going to live mine without apology and in their face, and maybe that is the real point being made with this tactic.)
“Going after Obama with racial overtones would further fix in peoples minds outside the White”
What in heaven’s name are you talking about? The cartoon is simply making fun of the chimp tragedy. It’s got nothing to do with Barack Obama!
I saw it in today’s Post, and in no way thought of Obama.
This is just far-left demagoguery, designed to silence all criticism of the Messiah.
I am waiting for them to burn the cartoonist at the stake.
As much as I can’t stand Obama and his posse, I won’t defend this cartoon either. However, freedom speech and freedom of the press means they can publish what they want, and that I will defend, whether I agree with what they’re saying or not.
Cedarputz never fails to squeeze a little Jew hatred in, whatever the topic.
So are we now going to ban chimpanzees because they symbolize racism? I can see them all lining up to sue the zoo. Personally I think Al Sharpton is the racist and he offends me so lets ban him. Maybe without him and the rest of the breast thumping idiots like him we would be able to come together as one society but until then I wouldn’t count on it.
That’s right abuse Pelosi like a good little right winger, you people are so loving and kind. I really can’t blame someone for seeing the relation and some racism in that cartoon since bill has been Obama’s baby from day 1. O has been on the road all week hawking it so to see a racial element is hardly delusional or stretching it. It’s not like some obscure bill that Pelosi cooked up say for California avocado growers.
cedarford, refer to comment #7. I’ve read your comments before, and they have never made any sense. Your tradition continues – you fail again.
“1. It may have been intended for Congress, but the cartoonist made it about Obama by what he drew by only having a single chimp vs. a group of them that could plausibly been labelled “deranged Congresscritters”.”
So, a picture of Uncle Sam could only refer to a single white bearded male? Only in your alleged “mind” could one image refer to ONLY one thing rather than a group.
“2. It violated the standing taboo, based on deep American trauma, of depicting our elected national leader assassinated.”
It wasn’t a conservative that made a film portraying GWB’s assasination.
“3. Cartoon convention says you never, ever depict blacks you wish to ridicule as apes. There are certain “racist” or “ethnically offensive” stereotypes one avoids in cartoons.”
No one depicted a black person as an ape. Only by accepting your initial premise could this be true – and I do not accept it. This is obviously (well, not to you) refering to a current event, and not depicting any one person, except within your (alleged) mind, and those who reason as poorly as you do.
Racist!
As the rest of the world sees it, this cartoon is disgusting and racist. Does every Republican wear a white hat and gown and carry a burning cross?
I don’t understand what the cartoonist is trying to convey; however, I can see how this could easily be misunderstood. This was poor taste & not funny. He should have thought about this one a little more. I don’t think he is that ignorant, then again he is certainly trying to make everyone think so.
This was bad timing, combined with bad taste. In the context of Tuesday’s stimulus signing, the history of POTUS assassinations, police violence against minorities, and the likening of Presidents and blacks to chimpanzees throughout history, this is bound to rub a lot of people the wrong way.
Personally, I think it’s just a dumb cartoon. Not funny, and not really politically insightful at all. Just a rushed cartoonist who couldn’t take time to write a decent caption.
Peace.
DS
What hypocrisy. Precedent has been set, see website below and note date of publication (2000) and date last updated (2003). Comparing politicians to simians is nothing new. Some folks need to get a life.
http://www.bushorchimp.com/
A first grader could see the intended target of this humor.
Me thinks we have slipped beyond the ability to comprehend anything.
Maybe only mid western folks have a sense of humor anymore.
I found it to be very humorous and dead on.
I am getting so sick of Al Sharpton thinking he is the banner carrier for racism.
He distorts everything so that he can enjoy his life style
Yes there is racism, some founded and some unfounded.
But don’t criticize only the whites and not the blacks as Al so aptly does.
We’re in this country have the freedom of the press and freedom to speak so if Rupert wants to print a racist picture of the police shooting the monkey for writing the stimulis bill he can just like when he drew the cartoon in his London news that showed the turbin with missles. Ha-ha!
Naturally the politicians, as well as Sharpton and his ilk, are going to use “race” whenever they possibly can. They fear that BO is going to be ridiculed and disrespected the way President Bush was for 8 long years.
It is the surest way they have to “control” the remainder of the media they haven’t bought off.
Its nauseating already. Excuse me while I puke!
Well, well, well . . . I go off the grid for a few days (I think you should all consider that) and I come back and what do I see? A cartoon of a couple of white cops killing an ape over the Stimulus Bill . . . in the New York Post . . . owned by Rupert Murdoch . . . who also owns Fox News . . . all part of News Corp . . . the media conglomerate of the right wing.
What are the chances? And what’s the problem? No one here seems to see a problem. But mwl (#4) got it exactly right. It’s indefensible. Reminds me of Bush’s speech to the Knesset . . . the appeaser speech. News Corp fell all over itself, claiming, “What? Bush didn’t mention Obama by name? Why would Obama think Bush was referrgiing to Obama? Sounds like a guilty conscience to me.” . . . complete BS . . . plausible deniability that would have made Reagan proud.
You see, there are about 35-40 million black people in this country. We don’t see what you see in this cartoon. We don’t see innocence. We know that comparing Bush to a chimp wasn’t because he was white. It was because he was stupid. On the other hand, as mwl points out, there is no way the boneheads at the Post didn’t realize the implications of the cartoon. They did it for the same two reasons Ann Coulter calls 9/11 widows whores. #1 It’s marketable. #2 They’re assholes.
Now for the math: 35-40 million votes lost for another generation. Congratulations. Hope it was worth it.
Al Sharpton is a racist for thinking everything is racist. He takes everything out of context. Its nearly impossible not to offend Al Sharpton
Ignorance is bliss – and Sharpton and his “friends” count on ignorance to propagate their cause – the cartoon specifically says someone else to write the stimulus bill. I am SURE that they are completely aware that President Obama did NOT WRITE the stimulus bill, yet they charge head first into stating that this is an attack on Obama, the non-author of the stimulus bill.
Like I said, ignorance is bliss. And the bigoted “anti-bigot” police are working it hard.
Sleazy Al running to the defense of the president….freakin hilarious!!!
33. Jeremy . . . I know, you’re frustrated. I would be, too, if I had been lobotomized in a three-fer with the likes of Eric R and Andrew X. Consider yourself lucky; you’re inside in your cozy home with your computer. They’re still wandering the parking lot at Sam’s Club trying to remember where they parked the Bronco. But don’t despair, there is hope for you.
Let’s consider this a “teachable moment”. Here’s how to avoid offending Al Sharpton . . . Don’t publish cartoons showing white cops killing a black president!
Any questions?
Question:
Did President Obama write the stimulus bill?
Answer: NO fact: President Obama did not write the bill..
The bill was authored by certain congressional Democrats. end of story.
Obviously leftist will NEVER let the facts get in the way of a twisted opportunity.
Most of the time I take a dim view of racial flaps like the Jena noose crap which was a get out of jail free card for some black punks. I don’t blame people for taking offense to this one nor am I surprised that the some of the petty hypocrites here, who yell anti-Christian or anti-American at anyone who disagrees with them, should be so obtuse and petty that they can’t appreciate that other people would take this as a racial slur. Get a life people, you act like you are so holy and are the only ones who have a right to judge what someone else should get upset about
\
I am sorry, now that a black is President.. no matter how fraudulently acquired it was, does not exempt him from being called a chimp. Blacks need to get over it, past racism is no excuse for their racism today.
Never saw the bushorchimp site. More idiots creating nonsense. Wonder if he’d have to put Obama’s face on that site too if the ‘fairness doctrine’ gets passed??
Funny isn’t it? 8 years of bashing President Bush and 1 cartoon gets put up and right away there is an uproar.
Given the possibility that some people could conclude the cartoon had a racial subtext, {Governor]Mr. Paterson said the newspaper needed to clarify its meaning.
Now cartoons have to come with an explanation.
I wonder if Comedy Central includes explanations of all the jokes in the closed captioning.
Timing, Timing Timing. If this cartoon had appeared just a couple of months before the inauguration. It would have represented and thrilled the left as “Chimpy McBush Hitler”. But alas now the image invokes a different president. We as voters, dutifully deserve our leaders as all Democracies can attest. The ‘fair and unbiased’ media is quite another issue. DaFlikkers
No one gets the joke behind the joke in the cartoon. This is how the stimulus bill was /really/ created:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
It appears that Travis’ fellow troglodytes are all here insisting that it’s an insult to their species to compare them to Pelosi, therefore the comparison must be to 0bama. I understand. I wouldn’t want to be compared to her, either.
You all typing with your fingers or toes?
In 2003, lecturers and students from the University of Plymouth MediaLab Arts course used a £2,000 grant from the Arts Council to study the literary output of real monkeys. They left a computer keyboard in the enclosure of six Celebes Crested Macaques in Paignton Zoo in Devon in England for a month, with a radio link to broadcast the results on a website. One researcher, Mike Phillips, defended the expenditure as being cheaper than reality TV and still “very stimulating and fascinating viewing”.
Not only did the monkeys produce nothing but five pages consisting largely of the letter S, the lead male began by bashing the keyboard with a stone, and the monkeys continued by urinating and defecating on it. The zoo’s scientific officer remarked that the experiment had “little scientific value, except to show that the ‘infinite monkey’ theory is flawed”. Phillips said that the artist-funded project was primarily performance art, and they had learned “an awful lot” from it. He concluded that monkeys “are not random generators. They’re more complex than that. … They were quite interested in the screen, and they saw that when they typed a letter, something happened. There was a level of intention there.
The Chimp Cartoon:
The great discussion of what the cartoonist may have meant proves it is a piece of art indeed.
It is being discussed like a great abstract or surrealistic painting. As usual, the meaning is not in the word (picture) but in people. So keep up your discussions.
If you feel offended because you see racism orwhatever in it then it is your fault. Whatever you see in it tells us what you are.
What’s that you say? You say that racists have long used simian slurs to denigrate black people as unintelligent, violent, and something less than human?
I swear, I never heard of such a thing.
And you say the new President is black? I’ll have to take your word for it, see, cos I’m color-blind. I just don’t see color.
The only ones who saw it as racist are racists themselves.
Thus, we have the left being the ones complaining about it. “Accidental” racism is in their nature. They can’t help but see the chimp and think it must be about Barack. Once again, liberals have been punked. They’ve been exposed by their only subconscious, don’t even know it and i think it’s funny.
This cartoon is a sham…it’s intent is designed to change the subject from the massive handouts to ACORN and the like, and get everyone heated over some tarted up, feigned racial insult.
And how convenient is this for race mongers like Ol’ Al (can’t forget Jesse) to demand moar monnee in compensation for their por, hurted lil’ feelins’…so they won’t march and burn down the city.
Ol’ Al probably drew the cartoon himself…
B-stards.
Sharpton? Any excuse will do. Come on now people! There is a great alliterative nickname for him. Let me help: Sharpton came to fame during the Tawana Brawley scandal. She placed her own feces over herself, blamed white men, but then got trapped in her own lies. Al supported her to the max. So, my nickname for him is Al _____-stain Sharpton.
48 Zeph and 46 Weenie . . . OK, if I see racism in the cartoon I am a racist. Let’s go with that.
So when an artist puts the crucifix in a bottle of urine and I see it as blasphemous, then I would be a blasphemer. You people can’t really be that . . . oh, darn it . . . what’s the word? I had it . . . it was right there on the tip of my tongue . . . can’t be that . . . that . . . I’ll get back to you.
THe cartoon was a cartoon….nothing to do with obama…..here’s the truth….obama mentored under Frank Marshal Davis…read his poems and political leanings. And listen to a video on you tube…obama reading from his book….
I think being a member of the National Association of Black Journalists is racist.
Do we have an association that excludes blacks?
No. Otherwise we’d be sued for being racist.
It’s okay for them to have black this, and black club that, but, God forbid the Cracker does it. Climb out of your “imaginary hole”
that you think you’re still in. It’s just an excuse to blame someone else for your problems.
Check the History books…you’ve been free for a long time. Now it’s the white’s who are shackled. We have to watch everything we do, or the Mighty Al might be on our butts.
“to write the next stimulus bill”…the chimp = stimulus bill.
As an African American woman who was born and raised in the South, I have heard us referred to as monkey, ape, coon, etc since childhood. The idea that this cartoonist drew a picture of a dead Chimpanzee and connected it with President Obama (who is the face of the stimulis bill) is highly offensive. If he meant it to be Pelosi, he would have drawn it as a female. The only thing more offensive is when white people try to defend this nonsense, and blame us for being too sensitive. The idea that because it didn’t offend you it must be acceptible is ridiculous. If you think it was so funny, put it on a t-shirt and stroll through the nearest Black neighborhood.
There will be no mocking of the One, even when it has nothing to do with him
We can’t expect those who love the stimulus bill to see it as the congress going ape with our money. To them, going ape with our money is a good thing.
Of course they don’t get the cartoon.
Here they come – out of the woodwork to lablel any criticism “racist”, even if it’s satire.
When will we have a “White History Month”, “White Achievement Awards”, etc?
Were is Al regarding criticising the Moslem in Buffalo who beheaded his wife, because she’s divorcing him?
Al most of us are tired of you. Shut up and sit down!
All of those opportunistic race baiters, particulary thin-skinned Sharpton, who are calling the cartoon racist need to ask themselves why no one complained all of the times former President George Bush was called a chimpanzee and the many cartoons likening him to a monkey in newspapers the past few years. Never mind, this is redundant, this comparison has already been addressed in this blog.
I ama 78 yr. old white women & Obamba was the first thing I saw. It was very bad taste
I am not a racist! The first thing I thought, it was making fun of Obamba. 79 yrs old white women. Very Bad Taste
Mr. Man, you may be right about subtle (or not so subtle) implications and all, but the point you are missing is that sheer number of people who have NONE, zip, zero, null set of moral foundation to whine about being insulting after their demented behavior of the last eight years. They may THINK they have a right to say “ABC” about President Bush, and that I in turn do NOT have the right to say “ABC” about President Obama. They may think that, and they are welcome to go on thinking it. We are not asking for their approval any more, and that’s the point. As I said, it is not the right that went down the “Chimpy” road, so spare us the whining about it. Maybe certain parties should consider the ramifications of their childish behavior before acting out.
With that in mind, let me offer you another one before it happens. News flash – the day will come when someone will chuck a shoe (or the like) at Messiah Obama. Maybe here, maybe overseas. They might even hit him .(They are throwing them at caricatures of Hillary in Indonesia right now.)
Is this to be condemned? Is it an outrage? Is it an insult to the United States? You bet it is.
But a bazillion lefties here and abroad will not be able to utter one word of complaint about such an event without getting properly smacked uspide the chops. Because they APPROVE of this kind of thing. They think it just jolly, a wonderful example of free speech, and darn funny to boot. Hah hah, rollics all around. Had it comin’, doncha know, ’cause of that “stimulus” and all. “He deserved it.”
Not. But I can say “not”. The people who laughed at Bush in Iraq cannot. And it almost certainly will happen somewhere, sometime.
That is the world such fools and imbeciles have helped to give us.
Would *I* call Obama a chimp? No, I would not. I don’t roll that way. Millions of others DO, and I am less than interested in their opinions on such matters as this cartoon.
Sharpton is an idiot looking for a cause.
@ Zeph:
So, if you perceive racism where there is less than 100% agreement that racism exists, you are racist.
Right.
The corollary: only people who do NOT perceive racism when less than 100% agreement about the existence of racism exists are truly not racist.
Got it.
Why is the picture of a chimp on the cartoon any more outrageous than when the plastered pictures of bush as a chimp all over the papers, the internet, in cartoons and I think one even made the cover of a magazine.
Now it is terrible, terrible I tell you to try to link obama to the chimp picture.
That sentence got garbled…
“Only people who do not perceive racism where there is less than 100% agreement about the existence of racism are truly not racist.”
It’s tricky, writing about such confusing concepts! I’m sure the sophistication of Zeph’s premise was what really tripped me up.
AL SHARPTON NEEDS TO LOOK UP THE WORD RACIST. EVERY TIME THAT SOME ONE THAT IS WHITE SAYS SOMETHING OR DOES SOMETHING THAT HE DOES NOT APPROVE OF HERE COMES AL SHARPTON AND JESSEE JACKSON TO GET THIER FIVE MINUTES OF FAME. WHERE WAS AL SHARPTON WHEN JESSEE JACKSON MADE RACIST COMMENTS ABOUT PRESIDENT OBAMA DURING THE CAMPAIGN WHEN THERE WAS A HOT MIC ON. IT IS PEOPLE LIKE SHARPTON THAT CAUSES SO MANY PROBLEMS. JUST SO YOU KNOW I AM WHITE AND WENT TO ALL BLACK SCHOOL ONLY WHITE KID IN SCHOOL SO I KNOW WHAT A RACIST IS. IT SURE IS NOT ME, MAYBE AL AND JESSEE NEED TO TAKE A LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR. OH BY THE WAY I VOTED FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA.
So, all you deniers up there, when there are this many entries crying foul and calling this cartoon racist . . . on THIS board . . . you gotta to ask yourself, am I on the wrong side this time? It’s never easy to be wrong. Harder still to admit it. Who’s up to it? Who’s gonna stand up and be a man? Who’s gonna say, “You know what, I can understand why people would be offended by that after all.”
Anybody? . . . Hello? . . . test, test, test . . . is this thing on? . . . i know you’re out there, i can hearing you breathing.
I’m guessing the news out of Connecticut sparked the idea the cartoonist intended to convey about the so-called “stimulus” bill, i.e., it shows all the sense one might expect out of a chimp like Travis. So in the cartoonist’s image, the chimp stands for Travis, with perhaps a nod to the “infinite monkeys typing” story (though I find that unlikely).
The cartoonist and editors should have considered the close identification of the bill with the President and the inflammation of feeling from the history of association of African-Americans and chimps. If those associations has occured to them I suspect they would have spiked it, or had to change it drastically.
I hear a Protein Wisdom discussion about intent and communication and who controls discourse. One does suspect that those aggrieved over the offense taken from this cartoon will have more control over future discourse than those aggrieved over “Piss Christ” mentioned by mister man earlier. Interesting, that.
Hey Mr. Man, I’m thinkin about a deal.
If you stand up and say, “Hey, we actually DID win the Iraq war, and the victory would never have come without Mr. Bush’s courage in ordering a charge when everyone around him was running for cover, and Democrats were actively celebrating its being “lost” (quote Harry Reid)….
You gonna stand up and be a man and admit that? Is anyone in the Democratic Party going to? Anyone?…
Hello?
Your’re right about one thing… I don’t think this mike is working.
The cartoonist had to know that his work was in very bad taste. I won’t call it racist, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on that, but he had to realize that he would take heat for this cartoon. Blacks have always been compared to or portrayed as monkeys so when I saw the cartoon I immediately thought that it crossed the line. I understood what the intent was but it was too close for comfort.
Only an idiot could miss the point that our congress members are little better than chips in suits. As for the lefty wacks, throw feces at ‘em and maybe they’ll go away.
Oh, Mister Man, don’t be silly! You know that white people are the ones who know when things are racist! If they say it’s not racist, then it’s not racist, and you’re racist for saying otherwise. Why don’t you get it yet?
Sharpton–give me a break!!!! If the cartoonist had depicted some sort of comic that included a black rock, supposedly he would have purported that Obama was “dumb as a rock!” What a crock of ….!!!
As far as Mr. Sharpton is concerned; if he were a true “Civil Rights Leader,” he would express his concerns over others’ besides African-Americans (my husband, who has dark skin, prefers to be called “American”). It seems that whenever we hear from Mr. Sharpton he is only stirring-up crap!! Sharpton, take a lesson from a TRUE civil rights leader, Mr. Jackson, and pick your fights more appropriately. Pick things that will enhance unity among the races, not continue to build the walls that MLK gave his life to tear down.
I am ashamed of you.
If there was anything newsworthy about the “cartoon,” it was the fact that it was in poor taste for attempting to find cheap humor in a tragic event. Injury and loss of life are nothing to laugh at, regardless if affects humans, or animals, or the forests, or any of God’s precious gifts to us. What ARE we teaching our children?? I hope Mr. Sharpton is not one of the teachers.
You may call me a tree-hugger. There are far worse things that I could be called. Racist?–NOT LIKELY.
Admission of Iraq War victory for admission of racism? How delightfully nonsensical!
Okay, here goes: We won the war on Iraq, which we shouldn’t have started in the first place! Hurray for us! And double-extra hurray for Halliburton, they won $1.4 billion! What did we win, anyway? A luggage set? A free trip to the Shrine of the Holy Prophet’s grandson in Karbala, just in time for the next wave of sectarian suicide bombings? I can’t wait!
Your turn.
Way to go OT, there, Andrew, by the way. Now I’m sorry I did it.
The monkey was rabidly insane…
-and attacking anyone trying to stop it…
-much like the stark raving idiots…
-who wrote the dem-spendgasmic porkulus bill.
The reactions of people who keep saying they instantly thought of Obama when they saw the chimp and how racist it is give me…er…pause.
WHO’d you knee-jerk reaction think of when you saw that chimp again? Hmm.
Riiiiiiiiiiiight. -And if the cops had been portrayed as blacks Al would say they were making fun of black on black crime.
*eyeroll*
I think this cartoon is clearly racist, as Pres. Obama is the head Democrat responsible for the stimulus package. That said, socialist racism (politically correct if you will) directed at white people is a daily occurance and should also be pointed out and condemned.
I’m with #70, no excuse for this. It is possible to be funny without crossing that line.
This is insulting to chimps everywhere to be compared to Mr Tambourine Man.
At first I did see this as racist, and wandered how it could mean anything else…but i have lived around blacks long enough to know that saying things like that makes them scream and shout left and right.
Then I looked at it again an found it HILARIOUS!!!! A chimp authoring the stimulus bill that many saw as a ridiculous waste of money that might help somewhat, and of course it also had to do with a terrible tragedy on the news as well.
I think that if there were no racists in America Al Sharpton would have to find something else to scream and yell about. Yes, there are still racists in the US. On ALL sides of race there are racists, not just blacks and whites.
Al Sharpton should shut the hell up and get a clue before he decides to open his ignorant mouth again!
OH and on second note the cartoonist only has to say that he was driven by the Attorney Generals latest speech on those in the US being a naion of cowards when it comes to race.
Well this is one of those things taht people are scared to do usually cause some blacks are just to darn aggressive and angry about everything! GET OVER IT!!!!
Who cares if a cartoon is done of obama as a chimp?? President Bush was represented by that and much worse! Many, many times!
I didn’t see Sharpton being outraged then…did you?
This cartoon was not representing obama as the chimp.
There’s no shortage of everyday Black people who think that the cartoon is insulting….There’s a long history of depicting Blacks as slightly less than equal. A monkey is the most popular depiction to reflect this tact…It looks like we’ll blame the “left” or “blacks” or “the media” or whomever suits the purpose. The reality is that defending this cartoon is not going to grow the Republican base. It’s not going to make Blacks feel “welcomed” back to the “Party-of-The-Nixon-Southern-Strategy”..The reality is that the GOP is losing a demographic battle that can no longer be brushed off with the standard “why are they so sensitive?” argument..The GOP NEEDS more minority involvement. That means trying to understand the “other guy’s” perspective by understanding them “where they live”…That means trying to understand someone’s views who does not share the ideological excuse making of those inside the pajamasmedia echo chamber…First we get the bizarre “state of race” relations from Eric Holder (now THAT deserves a cartoon) and now we get the state of denial from the Post…We’re having that (painful) “conversation” alright.
1.4 billion? Over five years?
Damn that is a lot. Almost three-fourths of what ACORN got the other day.
69. Andrew X . . . If we won, why are we still there?
Andrew X, did you catch all the ACORN folks picketing on the news today for “their stimulus money”. *eyeroll*
It is a mighty stretch to call this racism.
I’ll give you a closer example of racism…
There was a t-shirt selling in my city before the election with a picture of Curious George on it, with wording that said, “Obama in 08″.
After every nasty thing that liberals depicted President Bush as, it would be nothing less than hypocritical of them to say anything about how the Repubs portray obama.
“Who cares if a cartoon is done of obama as a chimp?? President Bush was represented by that and much worse! Many, many times!”
Georgia Peach there is a big difference. Bush actually was a dipshit. He was at best a third string fridge repairman for Sears. President Obama has, what those of us who inhabit the real world like to call, an intellect. Bush was just plain stupid.
84. AX . . . Good god is there nothing you don’t turn to Sean Hannity for? Go read the bill and come back and tell me where Acorn is mentioned. Tell you what, I’ll save you the time it takes to learn to read as well as the time it would take to read the bill . . . Acorn ain’t in it.
“But but but Rush told me so on the radio box yesterday! He said it right there just like I did and so Acorn is in the bill. And if you’re so smart, why don’t you go show me where it isn’t in the bill. I’ll wait.”
Mindless, witless, clueless. Yes, I think you’re an absolute blight in the American experience. Go under the hood and stay under the hood. Any hood will do . . . I’m sure you have several.
@ Andrew
I’ve got sources.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/24/eveningnews/main645545.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSvXG1r23_0
http://www.amazon.com/Halliburtons-Army-Well-Connected-Company-Revolutionized/dp/1568583923
In reality, we’re not sure exactly how much Halliburton bilked the military for. The 1.4 figure is an estimate from a documentary about it. That’s in the youtube link.
Now it’s your turn. What’s this about ACORN? Prove it. Give me some reliable sources. As far as I can tell, the conservatives are making a fuss about it not because ACORN is mentioned in the stimulus bill, but because there’s a $4 billion provision for community development block grants, which non-profit organizations would be allowed to compete for, and apparently ACORN is really good at competing for these grants. I think you got nothin’.
I especially think you got nothin’ cos you keep changing the subject. C’mon. It’s your turn. I did my snarky Iraq War bit. Now you’ve gotta make some sort of insincere admission that you might possibly, occasionally, be a tad bit racist.
Hey, don’t feel bad! Everyone’s a little bit racist! [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbwNSNLPIfw] Check it out, it’s hilarious. Definitely more funny that this dumb cartoon.
You know what’s not going to grow the Republican base? It’s the fact that you are irrelevant.
Al Sharpton, Jessee Jackson, liberals, George Soros, tax and spend, Hollywood, elites…
Oops, forgot ACORN
Cartoon, not funny anyway
@64. Martge:
Bullet holes.
Peace.
DS
CapitalistforChange has you guys’ number…
83.,
Check out this conservative black man’s blog:
http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com/
The artwork he uses is hilarious too.
As far as the subject of this political cartoon goes…I suppose everything is going to be construed as racist no matter what is said or done with regards to this CP so maybe they figured they’d push the envelope?
I would have depicted Zero with blinders on, a pig nose and wearing bright-red lipstick as he signs the porkulus bill while angry Americans directly behind him are protesting with signs against it. -But, hey…that’s just me.
I may be preaching to the choir, but doesn’t this story coincide with the 911 call of an hysterical woman begging for police to come to her aid because her pet chimp flipped out in her car, and began ripping, tearing at the face of her friend. The injured woman had extensive reconstructive surgery, albeit more to come in the future.
Furthermore, the owner of the chimp was screaming into her phone to the 911 Dispatcher to get police to her locale and shoot her animal. Suffice to say, they did. Voila!!!
Drawing similarities of this event and ‘racism’ is asinine. Truly. IMO, Obama (Admit it, Obama has huge ears. The Pres should grow his hair out a bit to give the ears a ‘tucked’ in appearance. The cartoonists, satire cartoonists at that, capitalize on these physicalities. It’s their raison d’etre. Oh, and his man-boobs! hahaha) resembles the irritating character, Steve Erkyl (sp?) from the unfunny show, ‘Family Matters.’
Don’t ask Obama of the show though. He confused the Jefferson’s, ‘Weezie’ with Red Foxx’s, ‘I’m coming to join you ELIZABETH’ bit from Sanford and Son when trying to prove his ‘urban-ness’ – What a dip..
Thanks for being the catalyst in deflating the dollar, dipstick. Lastly, the ‘plastic-faced crypt keeper’ comment regarding shoulder padded, hair helmet Pelosi – THAT’S GOLD Mr. Owens!!!!!
The cartoon is simply making fun of the chimp tragedy.
Yes, that was such a hilarious story, wasn’t it. A woman is mauled and probably disfigured for life by an out-of-control animal. So much material there for punchlines. It’s gold, I tell you. Gold!
So where’s the cartoon about the plane crash in Buffalo?
Chris #81 is 100% right. It is ironic that this conversation, if you will, takes place on the very day that Eric Holder calls us cowards for “not talking about this”. (By the way, Holder, kindly stuff a sock in it.)
Fact: this cartoon shows a chimp, NOT a man looking chimp-like, NOT Obama as a chimp, but a chimpanzee full stop.
Fact: It is published 24 hours after a big national story about cops being forced to kill a rampaging out of control chimpanzee. (i.e. out of control Congress)
For the rest of this, I quote Sean Bannion over at the blog ‘Cold Fury’, who answers very well both attorney general Holder and those caterwauling about this cartoon –
– Let me boil it down for you, Eric. Every time America – and not just white America – has sought to have the conversation and, God forbid, pointed out something is wrong in the black community, it was branded as racist. Ask Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Ask Thomas Sowell. …
…You get enough of that crap back in your face, you quit. Why? Because it’s not worth the drama. What the rest of America sees as not being worth the effort, Holder sees as cowardice.
In my case, this dynamic of hearing “Racist!” screamed every time my interlocutor didn’t agree with my points fully explains how I went from being a Massachusetts-born and bred Ted Kennedy (shudder) Democrat to a Republican. I simply got tired of being told I was supposed to feel guilty for being a white guy. Period. It wasn’t a failure to “confront my own white privilege” it was that I was tired of people who couldn’t and wouldn’t argue in good faith. Logic and argument being a “white construct” and all that jazz. Look, when you have discussions with people about what you see as the problems with race relations in this county and the response you receive in return is to consistently be branded a racist, it’s not cowardice when you stop engaging – it’s sanity preservation. —
So, in a nutshell, either we can be ultra “sensitive” to this cartoon, and thus DEMAND the same sensitivity be pointed my way when, for example, Reverend Lowry goes out of his way to insult me during Obama’s inauguration, which he most cetainly did…
… or we can all grow the hell up and stop whining like fourth-graders at recess whenever we CHOOSE to interpet something as upsetting our delicate sensibilities, and it certainly is a choice.
This is a mediocre cartoon at best, forgotten in a day if people don’t make an issue of it, just like the Mohammed ones. But they are making an issue of it, because they have been trained to make the issue whenever possible, while the events setting them off get smaller and smaller and smaller.
This is about terminal indignance and unquenchable grievance, and it has grown quite tiresome.
Obama *does* look like an ape, even moreso than Bush. It ain’t racism if it’s true.
Someone was running a poll last night on weather or not offense should be taken from the ‘toon.
IMHO the chimp should not be offended by this.
This liberal race bullshit is deliberately destroying the USA and the cohesion as a nation.
Those idiots are victims of their own stupidity, it is like they have changed ‘Uncle Sam to Uncle Tom’.
Mr. Man –
RE: If we won, why are we still there?
Good question. I’ll ask the Germans, Japanese, and South Koreans, and get right back to you.
Valkyrie – Links? Here are two…
http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/Stimulus-bill-funds-ACORN-despite-its-history-of-corruption-39288257.html
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=317952439188615
The latter, Investors Business Daily reads directly….
Yet in this package is a $4 billion pot for community groups like ACORN to draw upon for what are called “neighborhood stabilization activities,” which include “redevelopment of abandoned and foreclosed homes.”
That is a worthy goal in a troubled economy. But money was already appropriated for that purpose in the Housing and Economic Recovery Act signed into law in 2008.
The problem for activists is the money was limited to state and local governments, where presumably there is greater transparency on how it is spent, and some measure of accountability.
Community groups like the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now felt left out.
So their Democratic patrons in Congress have included language to expand the eligible recipients of up to $4 billion in assistance to include “nonprofit entities or consortia of nonprofit entities,” which translates into groups such as ACORN.
ACORN has been accused of perpetrating voter registration fraud numerous times in the last several elections; is reportedly under federal investigation; and played a key role in the irresponsible schemes that caused a financial meltdown that American taxpayers are now paying dearly for.
One of Your Qwn – RE: Any hood will do . . . I’m sure you have several.
Asinine, childish gibberish, of course, but you go a long way toward pointing out EXACTLY what Cold Fury was writing about in my posting #99. BTW, we’ve seen a number of Hitler youth types wearing masks in our streets protesting over this decade. They were ALL from the left / anarchist wing. The Klan is virtually dead, good riddance…. the masked anarchists/socialists are far from it. They’re the ones under the hoods now, for the same shameful reasons.
“Reality-based community”, huh? Right.
Well, the cartoon made me think the Generational Theft Act was so dumb that it could have been written by Travis the Chimp. I think that is what the cartoonist was trying to say. I don’t see any racism in it, just a bit of dark humor.
Poor chimps, apes and other primitive primates are in for four years of insults being compared to President Zero.
I thought it was a Reagan joke. Wait, he never was funny.
It mattereth not a whit(to many on the Left) what the original cartoonist meant. What matters is what the racebaiting opportunists can feed into the grist for public consumption… to keep their miserable careers percolating along. Logic and original intent do not apply… it’s “what hay can we make from this propaganda’tunity…”
Interesting…
J. Parham: @55 You really need to take some sensitivity training. Oh, and BTW get over it. The days of Blacks using reverse racism, and race bashing are coming to an end. In fact it is probably time for Whites to start acting like Blacks do on the race front. Whites have gone too far down the colorblind way and it would seem that all the other races have not journied there with us.
Time for Whites to go back to being as racist as say Blacks are.
You know the racist uproar over this cartoon reminds me of moslems after the Dutch cartoons. The real racists protest to much… methinks.
mister man @ 51:”So when an artist puts the crucifix in a bottle of urine and I see it as blasphemous, then I would be a blasphemer.”
Nice try, but you’re deliberately missing the point of this debate, which isn’t surprising seeing as how you don’t have any real arguments to put forward.
The crucifix is incontrovertibly a symbol of Christian faith, so putting it in a bottle of urine is clearly designed to offend Christians.
A monkey does not, in the minds of normal, thinking people, represent a black person, therefore drawing a picture of a monkey is not intended to offend black people.
It’s really very simple, but I guess that’s what’s killing you.
If, every time you see a monkey, you think of black people then you have a serious problem, and you should seek professional help for it. Do you have children? Would you take them to a zoo or would the sight of monkeys in a cage be too much for you to take?
I pity you, because you have had the facility of autonomous, rational thought taken away from you by leftist leaders and educators. You simply don’t know any better, and you revel in your ignorance.
Democrats, leftists and progressives have been racists throughout American history – Al Sharpton is one of the most vicious racists in the US, and to the best of my knowledge the Democrats are the only party that has a KKK leader as one of their most respected figures.
But just like Palestinians calling Jews ‘Nazis’, with the help of the colleges and the mass media the left has done a good job of twisting the truth to make its opponents the racists.
Fake rows about racism set back the cause of race relations in American, but that doesn’t bother the left, as long as it can leverage the tension to win votes and power.
I take great exception to being compared to Granny McRictusface. You rip off a face and eat a couple of hands, and next thing you know people are treating you like you’ve screwed the entire country over for generations to come. You’d think being shot to death would be sufficient punishment, but no, Sean Delonas has to add this egregious insult to my injury. That chimpophobe is lucky I’m dead.
As for Obama, I’m clearly much cuter than he is. I don’t see how anyone could confuse us.
Here’s a simple litmus test for those who claim they do not see the racism in the latest New York Post cartoon. If you really believe it is not racist and only a few radical individuals would be upset by the depiction, than here is your assignment: Have the cartoon silk screened onto a t-shirt, put it on and walk down 125th Street in Harlem from end to end. I guarantee no one will step up to the challenge, and the reason is simple, you know in your heart that it is racist and offensive. So I put this challenge out to all the cowards in the editorials and in the blogosphere. Any takers? I didn’t think so.
Damn, that “artist” sure sucks. I can only imagine that pushing a broom was too complicated for his skill set.
I agree with Cedarford and mwl on this one. That cartoon was incredibly disrespectful. The past uses of monkeys depicting black people in the paper, and the presence of the photo of Obama signing a paper just before this cartoon indicate the thoughtlessness and possibly racist undertones held by Post cartoonists and editors.
113. Victor . . . There you go. Who’s gonna take Victor up on his assignment? Who among you brave and committee souls is willing to prove the innocence of this harmless little cartoon? Who among you courageous patriots so steeped in your values and principles ha the guts to wear this innocuous T-shirt?
I can tell you . . . not one. Victor, you just won the argument. Everyone can shut up now.
“The cartoon is simply making fun of the chimp tragedy.
Yes, that was such a hilarious story, wasn’t it. A woman is mauled and probably disfigured for life by an out-of-control animal. So much material there for punchlines. It’s gold, I tell you. Gold!
So where’s the cartoon about the plane crash in Buffalo?”
This is why so much of the outrage seems so phony. If you were going to be outraged by the cartoon shouldn’t be as expressed above? But, no. Everybody thinks Obama.
Personally, I wasn’t offended because I think the stimulus bill is horrific too. Each new detail revealed is like another assault at our children’s future.
111. Mike McNally . . . writes . . . “The crucifix is incontrovertibly a symbol of Christian faith, so putting it in a bottle of urine is clearly designed to offend Christians”
Not necessarily. It could be just as much a statement of the artist’s atheism, or a challenge of the faith of others who claim to be devout but aren’t. That’s kind of how art works. The artist has a message, and the viewer has an impression. They’re not always the same. Cool, isn’t it?
You go on . . . “A monkey does not, in the minds of normal, thinking people, represent a black person . . . ”
Now you’ve gone and done it. You see, I’m guessing 99% of black people think this cartoon is racist. Now you may not consider black people to be “normal, thinking people” but I do.
You’re right about this much . . . “It’s really very simple, but I guess that’s what’s killing you.” You might want to reconsider argumentation as a hobby and stick to soldiering up for the War on Christmas. It’s coming up.
Andrew X. Bosnia and Kosovo too.
Victor…Cartoon or not, why would anyone want to got to the local Planet of the Apes?
Fine One, you’re on.
Victor, if you will agree that, if a black person wore a “Black Power” T-shirt and walked from one end of a suburban commmunity in Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi circa 1955, and that if that black person were attacked, that black person would be ENTIRELY at fault for his actions, I will concede your point.
The entire gist of this thread is not that some are offended, it is whether they ought to be. If those 1955 whites are totally justified in reacting violently to such a T-shirt, then your point is valid. If, however they would attack that person because the mere sight of a black person in such a shirt is inherently offensive, and they of course have an ABSOLUTE RIGHT not to be so offended, and they think therefore that their attack upon him is justified, then they would be acting precisely as you are expecting people in Harlem to act, for the same reasons.
Note that I have to go back to 1955 to make the analogy work. The people I am speaking of have grown up a lot in this matter in 50 years. I would like to think the same of the ones you speak of, and I actually might very well hold them up as more mature on this matter than you do.
103 AX . . . responding to “If we won the war in Iraq why are we still there?” says, “Good question. I’ll ask the Germans, Japanese, and South Koreans, and get right back to you”
That’s exactly what you should do. Like I said before, Why are we still there.
By the way, let me know when you’re gonna take Victor up on his assignment (#113). I’ll send a plane for you to take you to Harlem. And I’ll arrange a video crew to document your “experience.” And I’ll post it here for all the other patriots to see.
#87 Spanky, that is *your* opinion. Libs just don’t like their own tactics used against them. Poor widdle babies.
Libbys, get a box of tissue, the slamming of BO has only just begun.
121 AX . . . “The people I am speaking of have grown up a lot in this matter in 50 years.”
Well, that doesn’t include the people at the NY Post, does it.
“The entire gist of this thread is not that some are offended, it is whether they ought to be”
That’s not for you to decide. If it were, I could put depict Reagan as a Nazi prison guard closing the oven door and tell you that you have no right to be offended.
120. William: writes about the response to a white person wearing the cartoon on a T-shirt in Harlem . . . Cartoon or not, why would anyone want to got to the local Planet of the Apes?
OK, is there anybody on this board who believes William is NOT a racist? Anybody?
#122 one of your own
You should read about 125th street in Harlem and what is going on there.
Please stop the tired old argument that all Republicans, Conservatives, oh and yea whites are racist and bigoted. And most commenters on Pajamas are not racist and bigoted. It just makes you look well…racist and bigoted. Though if you want to find some hate filled comments you just meander on over to the the Huffington Post. .
Please look up who wrote the stimulus bill.
See ya.
mister man says:“They did it for the same two reasons Ann Coulter calls 9/11 widows whores. #1 It’s marketable. #2 They’re assholes. Now for the math: 35-40 million votes lost for another generation. Congratulations. Hope it was worth it. ”
Spot on, mister man. Regardless of whether this was meant to be racist, it certainly is not difficult to understand how 40 million Americans of color would be pissed off simply by the implication, especially coming from a right-wing paper like the Post. I think it ridiculous that something like this even made it past an editor’s desk, simply because anyone with half a brain would identify this as a PR nightmare if nothing else. Sure, the Post has the right to free speech. But if the right wing, and, by extension, the Republican Party, would like to continue to alienate black voters, this is exactly the way to do it.
Hey Victor, why wouldn’t anyone walk with that shirt in Harlem? Because you people on the left have been whipping up hate for half a century. Your hate mongering causes real violence. Yes Victor, almost all the hate today comes from the left.
Lynn: You should read about 125th street in Harlem and what is going on there.
You don’t know jack about Harlem. I’d rather be in Harlem at 4 am than anywhere in the South at any time of the day. People in Harlem are just more polite, open-minded, accepting and well-behaved. You dumb racist.
Most Republicans and Conservatives would not wear that t-shirt, not because they believe the artist intended it to be racist, but because they would not want to offend anyone who believes it is racist.
Over all Republicans and conservatives are not in the business of race-baiting, or offending others by being crude and confrontational, unlike the extreme left-wing who thrives on Anarchy.
AX, I think your response is part of the problem. To state whether people “ought to be offended” by the imagery is dismissive on its face. If I wore a t-shirt that said I hope your children die violently, why would you be offended? Why would you assume I was talking about you? Everyone with any sense clearly sees the implications of the cartoon. If you don’t, then your just being obtuse. All you need to do is look at comment 120 to see my point made by one of the cowards. Andrew, I do appreciate your intelligent and non-insulting response. At least there are some grown ups on here…
See #97. Drawing similarities of this event and ‘racism’ is asinine. Truly. IMO, Obama (Admit it, Obama has huge ears. The Pres should grow his hair out a bit to give the ears a ‘tucked’ in appearance
===
Ah…..a POTUS with a ‘fro. New memorabilia coin sets!
Andrew X said:
“Victor, if you will agree that, if a black person wore a “Black Power” T-shirt and walked from one end of a suburban commmunity in Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi circa 1955, and that if that black person were attacked, that black person would be ENTIRELY at fault for his actions, I will concede your point.”
The point is not that the person wearing the offensive t-shirt is ENTIRELY at fault. The point is that the person wearing the t-shirt would be incredibly stupid not to realize that certain segments of the population might react negatively to it. That, or they’re being deliberately provocative. (Hmm, I wonder which description better fits the Post editorial board? Not flattering, either way.)
White people might be threatened and offended by a “Black power” t-shirt. Black people might not.
Black people might be threatened and offended by this cartoon. White people might not.
The main point here is that only a complete idiot, a world-class narcissist, or a racist (which is kind of the same thing as a world-class narcissist) would be able to convince themselves that the hypothetical t-shirt, in EITHER scenario, would be universally unoffensive.
It seems to me that the people on here who in their own minds are equating a drawing of an ape (chimp, monkey, whatever) to Barack Obama, and they all seem to be the liberal/Dem side of the house, are the racists.
Hey, MisterMan @ #36;
Could you please send me the link showing the white cops shooting a black president?
The only cartoon I have seen is cops shooting a rabid chimpanzee.
42. blogengeezer wrote:
Timing, Timing Timing. If this cartoon had appeared just a couple of months before the inauguration.
Peter writes: Too bad the real life incident it is parodying only happened three days ago.
51. mister man wrote:
So when an artist puts the crucifix in a bottle of urine and I see it as blasphemous, then I would be a blasphemer.
Peter writes: This discussion is above the mental level of some people on this thread, who apparently have no abilty to think for themselves.
Art is in the intent. A crucifix in a bottle of urine is blasphemous because the so-called artist INTENDS for it to be blasphemous.
The monkey in the cartoon is INTENDED to be just that, a RABID MONKEY. What you INTERPRET it as just shows you are racist, because evidently YOU normally equate apes with black people.
QED
55. J. Parham wrote:
The idea that this cartoonist drew a picture of a dead Chimpanzee and connected it with President Obama
Peter writes: Open your eyes, woman! Where exactly is there ANY connection between the chimp in that cartoon and Obama? Obama did NOT write the so-called stimulus (actually Porkulus) bill, so get off your high horse.
If YOU are equating monkeys with black people, that just goes to show where YOUR head is located.
RACIST!
60. Pat wrote:
I ama 78 yr. old white women & Obamba was the first thing I saw. It was very bad taste
Peter writes: Lady, if the FIRST thing you thought of when you saw that cartoon was equating monkeys with a black person, then deny it all you want, deep down inside, YOU ARE A RACIST!
Yo, Peter–
How do you KNOW that the artist was not intending to be blasphemous? Did you ask him? How do you know he’s not lying? What if the cartoon artist is lying about his intentions with this cartoon? Is an artist’s intention behind an artwork the sole criterion for judging and interpreting that art?
Folks, regading the ‘Harlem question’, what anyone “ought” to do is entirely a matter of their own judgement. I would not walk through Riyahdd with a Mohammed bomb-head T-shirt, because there might be a violent reaction, and there is no reason for me to do that, and I am not interested in being unessaricly provacative.
That does NOT mean the reaction is justified, and it damn sure will not, except over my dead body, mean that I do not have the right to portray Mohammed in a way that SOME might be offended by in a publication. And a T-shirt in a neighborhood is NOT a newspaper, with centuries old histories of poking fun at politicians, not always politely. That is part of freedom.
But we are in a dangerous place, especially with Muslim greivances today, that we are quite simply responding the most to those who threaten violence the most. This alleged “Harlem reaction” is part of that as well. Again, I’m not sure I buy it.
Being offended occasionally is part of being grown-up, and part of being a free person. So what many are saying here is you CAN be offended if you choose too, whatever… but others of us are NOT going to modify our behavior as free men and women based upon it what you think “ought” to be true. And that postion comes largely from the acts of race-baiters who, having solved a great deal of real problems, fall back on pathetically minor and stupid ones like this cartoon, to continue doing that which they have always done.
Many of us simply are not going to respond to the eternally whining and aggrieved any more. Life is too short, and the schtick got old ages ago.
‘Nuff said for me then. I have a job to do.
X….. out!
I’m going to say this and get blasted for doing so. When I first saw the cartoon, I had not heard any of the rhetoric that followed. I was shocked because to me it looked like a shot at Obama. There is a deep rooted racist tradition of comparing blacks to apes. I have been called a monkey several times by cruel kids trying to get my boat because they knew that making such a comparison would hurt. When I saw the cartoon, I did not see the references right away, I saw an ape shot and a reference to the stimulus bill Obama signed. After thinking about it,I realized the point, but the hurt still remained because I in no way believe that the author of that cartoon was only equating two current event. He knew that people would see what they saw, and in that, he achieved his goal.
I wish that the media had left it alone. This like other offensive material would have went away and been forgotten. Now this guy is going to be more popular because those who get a kick out of controversial material will keep going back and those looking for a cause will also keep looking and the probelm continues.
One last point. If people want to get along with each other, they really should attempt to be courteous. Try not to offend others and think about what you say. If I as a balck man take offense to something, I need to be kind and patient enough to explain why I am hurt. And you should be able to listen and learn. By the way, I have had to modify some of my language because we blacks have plenty of stereo types and joke white would be appalled to here about.
2. It violated the standing taboo, based on deep American trauma, of depicting our elected national leader assassinated.
I’m so relieved that one of our online ‘intellectuals’ has projected his superior intellect into a cartoon and concluded that the US is run by ‘standing taboos’. I suppose that his projection is based on his own private set of taboos (he certainly hasn’t published them anywhere), but now that the “stimulus” bill has passed, unread by anyone in full, he has a superb opportunity. Somewhere in that bill is $2 billion dollars for ‘research into the standing taboos that govern America’. List and publish them, Mr. Cedarford, and you can collect the jackpot. Tell Mz. Pelosi I sent you.
PS – if you think ‘deep American trauma’ is worthy of attention, wrap your mind around the deep American trauma inflicted by the biggest spending bill in the history of the world, rammed through an extremist Congress unread. What a travesty of democratic government.
Peach I would say it was the opinion of the majority of Americans. But you probably don’t understand polling or empirical data.
I do not need tissues as I am not a member of a rapidly dying political party. You sad little people have lost power and in your current form you will never ever regain it.
I suggest you invest in some Scott Paper stock since it appears you will be the one in need of the facial wipes. I don’t want a bunch “poor widdle babies” running around making the rest of us sick.
Victor, Steve P., and one of your own
125th street in Harlem
“Improving the Heart of Harlem since 1993″
“Over 200 shops, restuarants, museums and movies”
“American Planning Association Honors Harlem 125the Street Great Places in America-Streets 2007″
See you at Starbucks.
Don’t worry, I’ll recognize you. Wear that Gifted T-shirt. You’ll be the one pushing on the door that reads PULL.
Apparently, according to some of the posters here, the mere act of acknowledging the existence of racism, and taking the time to consider the implications of that fact, makes you a racist. In this mindset, the only way to avoid being racist (and I’m not convinced that everyone here thinks that is a worthwhile goal) is to completely clear your mind of any thought of or reference to race or racism.
Like Stephen Colbert, who can’t tell whether people are black or white. He’s color-blind, ha. (Pssst! He’s satirizing YOU GUYS! Especially Peter Bubblehead.)
Having had up close and personal experiences with the way white people and black people interact, I can tell you bubble-dwellers that when you’re black, the world doesn’t let you forget that for very long. If it’s not some cop following you at night with his headlights out, it’s a waitress who refuses to look you in the eye or speak to you whenever there’s a white person around. Or it’s some stupid poster on this forum referring to Harlem as “the local Planet of the Apes.” Obviously not every white person is racist, but enough are that you feel like it’s worth keeping your guard up most of the time. Ignoring the existence of race and racism is a privilege that comes with being white. Sort of like not having people assume you are a criminal until you prove otherwise. Sort of like having 99% of your Presidents look like you.
But since here, racism is a mere chimera that doesn’t exist outside the heads of crazed liberals and oversensitive, resentful blacks (stupid blacks! what’s their problem anyway? why can’t they be grateful for all that we whites have done for them??), I shouldn’t expect many people to be able to assimilate the concept of white privilege with much grace.
Oh well. Keep on keepin’ on, racism-deniers! Your kind is fading fast. And you’re taking the Republican party with you. Which is kind of a shame, because respectable ideas like limited government and fiscal responsibility don’t deserve to be saddled to this kind of ignorant bigotry.
77. Friendly Girl wrote:
I think this cartoon is clearly racist, as Pres. Obama is the head Democrat responsible for the stimulus package.
Peter writes: Hey, Friendly Girl, go back to school and learn how our government really works.
Congress WRITES the bill.
President SIGNS the bills into law.
And please, while you’re at it, don’t go out and vote until AFTER you finish your civics class with a passing grade.
85. mister man wrote:
69. Andrew X . . . If we won, why are we still there?
Peter writes: Hey, mister man, if we won WWII, why are we still in Germany and Japan?
Go figure!
Mr Holder,
We’re “cowards” because of events & unfair laws passed by a sold out corrupt gov’t we’ve been SILENCED & CENSORED. Under the threat of going to jail for hate crimes, racism, racial profiling, & not being Politically Correct.
People get attacked & called bigots & racists for saying simple things as: “You people”, “They” or “Them”.
There’s a double standard in our society, the race pimps get propped up, & “crackers” hushed up. Black racists get free reign & anyone with an opposing view gets destroyed. Black comedians, rappers & such can say the most vile & racists things & not be admonished. If anyone said anything they in turn would be called racists not the original racist. If a white person says anything off color even if it’s a joke they’re demonized & DESTROYED.
This is EQUALITY? Is this what MLK dreamed about?
You, Mr Holder are being racist just in what you say because your “courageous” statments aren’t meant to bring healing & the truth out on this issue but to further shame the whites into further cowardice & submission & give props to blacks. While the black culture continues unabashed with their racist rants, words & messages of hate. I’ll take you seriously when you & other blacks rile against racist blacks & when blacks aknowledge that there are many Blacks that have indeed done very well & are super rich while working in white industries.
America just elected a guy that is AT LEAST HALF WHITE & definitly no more more black than white. Some say he’s not even Black but Arab. The Black Racists & their Guilty White supporters persist on calling this half-breed, Black. What’s more racist than ignoring the Contribution that his white half of the family contributed to the new “president”? He’s the product of a white womb & was raised by his white half of the family with little contribution from the black side that actually abondoned him.
Mr. Holder show America that you are “Courageous” & fix this injustice by making sure everyone calls “obama” (may not be his LEGAL name) a half-breed or mixed “president” or at least just “president” with a color blinded no mention of race. That would go a long way to help heal race relations & show us that you’re serious & not just another race pimp.
We didn’t elect the first black president we elected a president or the first mixed president. If he & you were respectable “blacks” you would NEVER allow anyone to Disrespect Your Momma even if she’s the “wrong” color. No self-respecting “black” man would sit in a so called church & allow his Momma to be disrespected for over 20 yrs.
Show some action that doesn’t show your racist roots by correcting the record & giving credit to whites for the race of the “president” & his election win w/ overwhelming support from white voters.
Are you too having difficfulty in knowing his racial make-up because you didn’t see his Birth Certificate either?
Mr. Holder, even if you’re called “Uncle Tom” show us your “race” courage.
94. David S wrote:
Bullet holes.
Peter writes: Perhaps you need to keep up on the news, David S, but three days ago a Chimp was shot to death in CT when it attacked a woman and then the police who responded to the 911 call.
The cartoon has NOTHING to do with Obama, and if you instantly equate a monkey with Obama or any generic black person, you, sir, are a racist!
Yo Peter–
So equating black people with monkeys is racist. Okay. We’re getting somewhere.
WHY is that racist?
Can you please answer the question?
113. Victor wrote:
Have the cartoon silk screened onto a t-shirt, put it on and walk down 125th Street in Harlem from end to end.
Peter writes: I would be more than happy to take you up on your challenge, except I fear being killed by all the racists who misinterpret the image of a dead chimpanzee and jump to the conclusion that the cartoon is itself racist.
115. Shadysider wrote:
I agree with Cedarford and mwl on this one. That cartoon was incredibly disrespectful. The past uses of monkeys depicting black people in the paper, and the presence of the photo of Obama signing a paper just before this cartoon indicate the thoughtlessness and possibly racist undertones held by Post cartoonists and editors.
Peter writes: Let me ask you this; If three days ago a LION had gone berzerk and maimed someone and a cartoonist drew a cartoon depicting a lion being shot and comparing it to the writers of the Porkulus package, would there be all this racist outcry? What about if a bear had mauled people and the next day a cartoonist depicted it? Is THAT racist?
It’s called CURRENT EVENTS, something you probably haven’t had in school if you attended in the last decade. Editorial cartoons parody current events ALL THE TIME. Get over it.
Get up to speed on current events before you start making outragious assumptions on what a cartoonist does and doesn’t mean in his/her work.
Victor, maybe because the racist in Harlem would attack, just like the moslems in say tehran would if you put on a shirt depicting moohamhead as a pig. That does not depicting such wrong or racist. It actually proves the reverse .
Or maybe you could put on a Martin Luther King or black power shirt and walk thu a Aryan Nation gathering. Would that make you the racist?
The cartoon is in poor taste and would obviously offend a great number of people, thus some criticism is justified.
However, it also seems obvious to me that those screaming “racism” the loudest likely had absolutely no problem with Dr. Condeleeza Rice being similarly caricatured recently.
140. Valkyrie607 wrote:
Yo, Peter–
How do you KNOW that the artist was not intending to be blasphemous? Did you ask him?
Peter writes: Yes. It was written plain as day in an article about the art display. The artist said, specifically, it was done to BE blasphemous.
Amazing what you find out when you read something now and again, isn’t it?
142. C wrote:
I’m going to say this and get blasted for doing so. When I first saw the cartoon, I had not heard any of the rhetoric that followed. I was shocked because to me it looked like a shot at Obama.
Peter writes: Just going to prove my point that people need to be better informed before they go offering their opinions as fact.
Read the news. Get it from all sides. Don’t go jumping to conclusions.
146. Valkyrie607 wrote:
He’s color-blind, ha. (Pssst! He’s satirizing YOU GUYS! Especially Peter Bubblehead.)
Peter replies: I’m not the one who looked at the cartoon and immediately ASSUMED it was Obama.
Did you? If so, then deep down inside, you equate black people with apes. The definition of RACIST!
151. Valkyrie607 wrote:
So equating black people with monkeys is racist. Okay. We’re getting somewhere.
WHY is that racist?
Can you please answer the question?
Peter replies: You tell me, because I’M not the one doing it. YOU apparently ARE.
Why are YOU equating monkeys with black people?
All I saw in that cartoon was police shooting a parody of Travis the Rabid Chimp and equating those who wrote the Porkulus Bill with rabid, out of control animals.
155. Sven wrote:
The cartoon is in poor taste and would obviously offend a great number of people, thus some criticism is justified.
Peter writes: And please tell me where in the Constitution is the right not to be offended by anything?
GET OVER IT!
“124. one of your own:
“The entire gist of this thread is not that some are offended, it is whether they ought to be”
That’s not for you to decide. If it were, I could put depict Reagan as a Nazi prison guard closing the oven door and tell you that you have no right to be offended.”
Sure you can be offended. But that should not cause censureship based on your mental problems. For 8 years conservatives have been offended by the liberal scum of the earth. Did any of those liberal scum get censured for it.. no. It seems it is only called for when moslems or blacks or leftist are offended. Personally I could care less when these groups get offended. They have used up their share of ” “Boo Hoo” you are a menie I’m offended”.
To say we cannot depict B.O. as a chimp because in the past “some” people called Blacks monkeys is just using victimology and race as a weapon, trying to foster “white guilt”. Which is itself racist. Once again.. get over it. If chimp was good enough for a fine man like President Bush it is almost too good for the scumbag street hustler we have in office now.
Fortunately I do not suffer from “white guilt”. Wonder what is going to happen when someone hangs our Chimp in Chief in effigy like was done to President Bush? That aught to get the al sharpton crowd of racist really “protesting”
In response to Peter, comment 152, thank you for proving my point. First point, you wouldn’t wear said t-shirt because you are afraid, which means you are a coward. Second point, what you fear is that others might interpret the shirt as racist. So you understand how the shirt would be offensive to others. Thank you Peter. As for Fantom’s comment 154, I never said people in Harlem would attack you if you wore an offensive t-shirt. I just stated that you would never wear the t-shirt in Harlem, because in my estimation you are scared, or a coward. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Spanky,
“Peach I would say it was the opinion of the majority of Americans. But you probably don’t understand polling or empirical data.”
“you would say”, have any proof to back it? ASSume all you like. I certainly haven’t seen any data, empirical or otherwise from you.
No need for tissue here. You should make sure a person is truly a party member before you attempt to insult them. LOL
162. Victor wrote:
In response to Peter, comment 152, thank you for proving my point. First point, you wouldn’t wear said t-shirt because you are afraid, which means you are a coward.
Peter writes: I’ll meet you at the southwest corner of 125th and Park Ave on Sunday, February 22, 2009 at 11:30AM. Be sure to wear a shirt just like mine, so I know who you are. I’ll see you there.
Victor @ #162
It’s a really easy place to meet. Train station is right there. I’ll be in front of the parking lot.
Andrew X says:“Hey Mr. Man, I’m thinkin about a deal.
If you stand up and say, “Hey, we actually DID win the Iraq war, and the victory would never have come without Mr. Bush’s courage in ordering a charge when everyone around him was running for cover, and Democrats were actively celebrating its being “lost” (quote Harry Reid)….
Andrew X, I would love to be able to make that statement, however it’s impossible because no one ever defined what “victory” was in this war, which is reason numero uno why it continues to be a huge failure. Did we go in to destroy stockpiles of WMD? Did we go in to take out Sadaam? Did we go in to take out Al Qaeda? Did we go in to bring Democracy to the Iraqis? Who knows, because the reasons for being in Iraq continually shifted as it became apparent that there really was no plan, and no primary objective. All that was really accomplished was that:
1) Sadaam was hanged, which was great for Democracy, but not so great when we realized that he was the only thing keeping Iranian influence out of Iraq. Today, the Iranians pretty much run the country.
2)Iraqis are now “free” to return home to bury their dead relatives and friends, and rebuild their devastated communities. The smart ones will probably not return, which means a permanent brain drain. You can tell how grateful they are by their endearing custom of hucking shoes at those they deeply admire.
3) Billions of American taxpayer dollars disappeared into the desert in pizza boxes.
Peter,
It is funny that you assume I do not pay attention to the news. I read the post before I watched the news that followed. My point was that I reacted without having been influenced by the insuing contravery.
You also assume I am not trying to see all sides. I am an avowed liberal who reads this online paper. I am looking at all sides because I realize that I do not have it all figured out. I find that I often agree with what is said here and I have modified my liberal stance as a result. Perhaps you should follow your own advise. Then again, I might be making an assumption as well. If so, I retract my statement.
Stein…ah, another nice Irish..rather like 95% of those seen on the national and local staffs of the ACLU..
C’mon Peter, work with me here. I wouldn’t wear that t-shirt on 125th if you paid me. It’s racist and offensive, remember? Here’s what we’ll do, I’ll wear the Obama t-shirt you wear the offensive t-shirt. And then we can meet and have a cup of coffee or rumble or whatever. You are really brave…oh unless you no show…then your just a chiken#@!% big mouth who talks a big game…
167. C wrote:
My point was that I reacted without having been influenced by the insuing contravery.
Peter writes: Thus PROVING my point. Only someone with RACIST tendencies, admitted or not, is going to see that cartoon and IMMEDIATELY jump to the conclusion that it MUST be a commentary on either black people in general or Obama specifically.
169. Victor wrote:
C’mon Peter, work with me here. I wouldn’t wear that t-shirt on 125th if you paid me.
Peter writes: Who is the coward?
See you Sunday!
Ok, last point here Peter because you’re giving me a headache. I wouldn’t wear that t-shirt because I personally find it offensive. I grew up in this neighborhood, so it’s not about being afraid. It’s about being a decent and considerate person to your fellow Americans. I don’t want to agitate/upset anyone for any reason, which is why I think this cartoon is indefensible and why I wouldn’t wear the t-shirt. Understand? Geez…is it me or is it him?
To Victor @172
First he accuses everyone on the opposing viewpoint of being cowards if they are not willing to take up his challenge.
Someone is willing to play Victor at his own game and he balks, saying that he is NOT a coward because he finds it offensive.
WHAT exactly do YOU find offensive about the cartoon, Victor? It is a cartoon about police shooting a RABID CHIMP. It is topical because THREE DAYS AGO police in CT SHOT A RABID CHIMP.
Because you have racist tendancies and jump to the conclusion that any cartoon depiction of a chimp MUST be depicting a black person, don’t go placing YOUR anxieties on those of us whose viewpoint doesn’t conform to yours. And don’t be calling others coward when you yourself admit you don’t have the guts to do what you demand others do.
Something I learned in my military service. Don’t demand of others what you yourself will not or cannot do.
I’ll see you Sunday!
172. Victor:
Geez…is it me or is it him?
Peter writes: And yes, it’s you. Definitely you.
Re: 55. J. Parham:
As an African American woman …. If you think it was so funny, put it on a t-shirt and stroll through the nearest Black neighborhood.
Do you see the irony in this post? You are automatically saying blacks resort to violence when they disagree with something thus putting them barely above the actions of an unthinking simian. Well done, a racist moron couldn’t have done more damage to blacks than you have.
Valkyrie607, I’m still waiting to hear why YOU equate moneys in cartoons with black people?
Victor, I would be happy to wear that in harlem, just as I would wear a cross in terhan, course I would need to carry my AK because there are a lot of White haters in that hood and Christian haters in the other.
The problem is you imply, by making the challenge, that there would be violence. Which is no problem, that is what the AK is good at. So you see entering a area filled with people who are racist and do not like a White who has pride in his race…
Now your last statement. “I don’t want to agitate/upset anyone for any reason, which is why I think this cartoon is indefensible and why I wouldn’t wear the t-shirt”. Is a commendable, quite Christian attitude. But not for me after the last eight years of what the left has said and done. Time to give ‘em what they gave.
So given your position on this, I suppose B.O. lawn jockies are out of the question.
Yo Bubblehead (truly aptly named)–
So you don’t know why. You’re just taking it on faith that there’s something especially offensive about portraying blacks, as opposed to other races, as apes and monkeys. Basically, you don’t understand what’s going on, you just have a useful line to throw at anyone who objects to what they perceive as violent racist imagery.
It’s like, for centuries women have been demonized as prostitutes. Then someone makes a hackish political cartoon ambiguously depicting Nancy Pelosi as a prostitute who sold out her constituents. Immediately there’s controversy and outrage. People say, “That cartoon is sexist and offensive to women!” Other people say, “That cartoon was referring to the entire leadership of Congress! It was satirizing Reid and Obama as well, so it’s not sexist!”
But you? You say, “What? You say you saw a picture of a prostitute and thought of a prostitute? YOU are sexist!”
It’s basically a version of “I am rubber and you are glue and whatever you say bounces of me and sticks to you.”
As for Roland…
Strolling through a black neighborhood with this cartoon on a t-shirt might get you some dirty looks and it might get you jumped. But J. Parham didn’t suggest the consequence either way. You’re the one who did that. So apply your pithy point to yourself.
Excuse me, I keep doing this–
“What? You saw a picture of a prostitute and thought of Nancy Pelosi? YOU are sexist!”
Damn, stealing my own thunder.
On last post: moneys = monkeys
Valkyrie607: I would NEVER see a picture of Nancy Peloser and think prostitute. Crack whore maybe.. but not prostitute.
As far as I am concern a chimpanzee is an animal not a human being. When God made man he made man out of dust. Why are blacks comparing themselves to chimps is beyond me. I am a black person and I sure do not see myself as a chimp. I am a creation of God. He made everyone of us in his own image.
My point is, blacks need to move out of the past and step into the future. It is time you lift yourselves and forget the past.
Cartoons are meant to be humourous, not to be taken seriouly. We need to laugh more often and not be so stucked up.
There would be no problem with this cartoon if it were only viewed by educated, politically knowledgeble people who “Get it”
To the other less informed / uneducated crowd the “imagery” created a different, negative perception.
I think the cartoonist realised he was dealing with two different audiences, and chose not to lower his creative standards to avoid offending the less enlightened.
I think he made a mistake, considering the endless possible choices of imagery he could have chosen to use to convey his distain for the stimulus bill, rather than stick with this one.
I don’t think it was racist. I think he simply suffers from the same character flaw as the POTUS: “Poor Judgement”
Let’s be honest here. If blacks and liberals can’t claim racism for the reason for the failures of blacks what would they have? They would not have anything except to take responsibility for their own actions. This is not part of their collective culture. So to blacks there will always be racism.
So ever effort must be made to keep the canard of racism alive.
***** UPDATE ALERT! ********
Well, folks, this thread was starting to peter out, but now there’s a new wrinkle, and since there is passion on both sides, I am interested to see where it goes here.
Al Sharpton is now calling for direct action against the NY Post over this…..
http://wcbstv.com/local/chimp.attack.protest.2.938780.html
— Sharpton said the cartoon is racist. He has an ambitious plan of attack: boycotting newsstands, telling people not to buy The Post and asking advertisers not to advertize.
But is biggest threat is going to the Federal Communication Commission.
“Let us remember that Mr. [Rupert] Murdoch got a waiver from the FCC so he could own two radio, two television stations and a newspaper in this town. We will ask the FCC to review that waiver,” Sharpton said. —
So gang, none of us has been sparing with our opinions. This may or my not “offend” you personally, but is direct action against a paper for printing a cartoon, or this cartoon, called for in Obama’s America of 2009?
If you’ve been participating here, ya darn sure know where I stand. How ’bout you?
HEADLINE: cops seen spanking monkey. witnesses say monkey started spanking back, and the shit hit the fan. it was a racist banana that started the fracas.
Forgive the guy. Racism is kept alive because these people call everything racist. It’s unfortunate that someone can’t make a joke these days without being crucified for it. The joke was obviously on the stimulus bill, and anyone who thinks otherwise is being entirely too sensitive. come on people.
Actually, if you read political cartoons of the 1800s, Irish immigrants were depicted as monkeys. No Al O’Sharpton in those times.
BTW just on the news tonight, there is a monkey loose at the Seattle zoo. Local media has been put on Al alert
178. Valkyrie607 wrote:
You’re just taking it on faith that there’s something especially offensive about portraying blacks, as opposed to other races, as apes and monkeys.
Peter replies: I’m NOT the one equating monkeys with black people. YOU are. YOU are the one who said that the cartoon was racists because blacks are portrayed as monkeys in cartoons. I said I looked at the cartoon and saw it as a parody of the shooting of Travis the Chimp.
It’s people like you, who see racism everywhere, especially where it DOES NOT EXIST, that are causing the problem here!
182. Suzie Q wrote:
As far as I am concern a chimpanzee is an animal not a human being. When God made man he made man out of dust. Why are blacks comparing themselves to chimps is beyond me. I am a black person and I sure do not see myself as a chimp. I am a creation of God. He made everyone of us in his own image.
My point is, blacks need to move out of the past and step into the future. It is time you lift yourselves and forget the past.
Peter writes: Thank you, Suzie Q! Someone who has her head on straight.
This is the point I’m trying to get across. Too many people are seeing only what they WANT to see in that cartoon to fit their own agenda.
The cartoon was not about Obama. Get it through your heads! And stop whining about every percived slight against you.
Typo: percived = perceived
185. Andrew X wrote:
If you’ve been participating here, ya darn sure know where I stand. How ’bout you?
Peter writes: I haven’t bought a copy of the NY Post since 1986.
I think tomorrow morning I’m going out and getting a copy.
Hey, Victor!
See you Sunday!
Victor writes: “First point, you wouldn’t wear said t-shirt because you are afraid, which means you are a coward.”
Victor, are you suggesting that the good people of Harlem would do violence against someone for wearing a T-Shirt? Why would you think such a thing?
Frankly, it sounds racist.
It hurts me to say this but what I have seen in the last 20 years in ragards to raceism in the U.S. is in the African American court rather than the whites, with one exception. People like myself who are the real African’s because we were born there and are educated enough not to listen to the liberal garbage on the major networks ! You liberals wanted change…God help us all.
Oh, and Vic, don’t forget your cartoon T-shirt.
I already printed out my iron on.
195. Nedarc,
I agree, Nedarc and I still get creepy chills down my spine when I remember the black people being televised cheering over the acquittal of O.J. Simpson for double murder by an all black jury which O.J. was BLATANTLY guilt of and all because one stupid cop had uttered the ‘n’ word.
-And yet, B.O. can marry in and attend a racist church and become president and Michelle O. can say ‘whitey’ and become first lady.
When does the race-baiting stop? I’m beginning to think that day is never going to come.
Mister Man: Please go off the grid for a long time.
Representing someone from “around the world”, and since I didn’t know about the chimpanzee incident, the first thing I thought of when I saw the cartoon was the old quote about monkeys and writing Shakesphere.
When I saw that people were linking it to Obama I shook my head and mumbled something about crazy left-wing Americans. Now that I know about the chimpanzee story for someone to link it to Obama they must have created that association themselves for some kind of moral outrage reason.
It’s just sad.
For some reason, I’m reminded of a joke about a guy visiting his psychiatrist and looking a bunch of ink blot images.
The guy keeps saying they remind him of sexual acts. Nothing but sex, sex, sex in each of the ink blots.
The shrink says the guy is obsessed with sex.
The guy retorts with: “You’re the one with all the dirty pictures!”
Peter the Bubblehead . . . Well, it’s clear now. One too many run silent run deeps for you. Here’s how it goes with you chronically adolescent old fogeys . . . The Post prints a blatantly racist editorial cartoon and Democrats are racists for calling it out . . . 12 years of Republican Congress and eight years of Republican president out of the last 16 and the result is the Democrats’ fault . . . I can hear you telling the judge as he’s about to sentence you for rape, “But your honor, did you see what she was wearing?” Bubblehead, you’re a sad, misguided old wretch who never quite made it all the way back to the surface. Do us all a favor and dive. You’re more at home down below amid the crunchy sheets and stench of ass crack than you are up top with people who actually have to be a part of civil society. Here, I’ll make you feel at home . . . ping . . . ping . . . ping . . . dung.
Victor, considering your ‘Bet’.. what will be the better outcome?
1. I, a white professional male, getting beaten to a pulp wearinf the aforementioned or:
2. The community of Harlem rising above my ignorant attire and going about their day?
By your tone in comment #113, I’m sure you’re alluding to my #1
So sad you discount not only a person, but an entire people’s to thuggery. You sir, are a sad little man. Leave it to a left leaning thinker to propose and have an insulting result in the same breath.
Victor, your ilk is ‘Fish in a barrel’ dude..
201. mister man wrote:
The Post prints a blatantly racist editorial cartoon and Democrats are racists for calling it out
Peter writes (once again, with feeling…): The Post printed a cartoon mocking the writing of the Porkulus Bill by CONGRESS, comparing THEM with a bunch of rabid chimpanzees.
If YOU look at a cartoon chimp and immediately equate that with black people, it is YOU who has the problem, NOT me.
Admit it to yourself… You compare blacks to monkeys. You have admitted as much on this thread. If that is the FIRST thing that popped into your head, you, sir (and I use the term loosely) are in serious need of psychiatric help.
The cartoon can’t be about Obumble since it has small ears.
Let’s eradicate all monkeys, chimpanzees, and gorillas so no one can use this avenue of denigration. And while we’re at it, let’s remove the word “black” from the english language. We could also delete the word “race” too. Then get to work on eliminating the words “equal, unequal, different, big, small, etc.” These can be used to DENIGRATE! How utterly horrible for us homo-sapiens to be so low in intellect. Our “institutions of higher learning” should be responsible for the initiative.
mister man,
You condemn 40 million Americans to another generation of Democratic “let them eat cake” plantation life over a cartoon? Are you implying that every single Black in America is that stupid to so misinterpret a cartoon that is empirically and contextually referring to two current headline events – the writing of the largest spending bill in US history & the horrific mauling of a woman by a male chimpanzee who is then subsequently shot by the police. I have read your mostly clever musings on PJM, and I am taken back by your inability to connect the quarter-size dots: Congress (as in Pelosi) writes laws (thus the “finding someone to write stimulus bill”); monkey in national news lunged at police (thus cartoon police shooting monkey; the metaphor here is the bill is so wild and reckless, it could have been written by a drug-crazed rampaging monkey. When otherwise intelligent people like yourself play the race-card so flippantly, it demeans the meaning of true racism. Now, let’s back up a bit and build a scenario in which your whining and name-calling in this section is justified: a black Speaker of the House writes a bill that is controversial; during the week(s) this bill is in the headlines there are no vicious headline monkey attacks; a cartoon is published identical to the one above. Then you would have a halfway decent point to make. But not this time. You have come so far to be considered a non-shrill liberal debater on this forum that many of us have a modicum of respect for your views (flawed as they may be). You are throwing all of this away and are back in the knee-jerk idiocy of marble-mouthed liberalism. What a shame.
Since so many blacks and Afro-Americans have turned to Islam, it seems they are stealing the idea of indignation from Islam, which has practiced and promoted this “outrage philosophy” much longer.
Google Bush and monkeys or chimp.
How do we explain all those characterizations?
Does that cause a quandary?
I rather like the response penned by Frank Fleming that perfectly captures the absurdity of racists who continue to try to make this cartoon into something it is clearly not:
“The NY Post put up this cartoon, and the obvious implication is that the stimulus bill is so horrible it could have been written by a crazed, face-eating monkey. Now, that’s not entirely accurate, as a crazed, face-eating monkey does not have enough wits about it to use a national economic crisis to get pork projects for its district, but still I see the comparison.
“Liberals, though, see something different though. Apparently, when they see a crazed, face-eating monkey — no matter the context — the first thing they think of is the current president. Why? Because he’s black, and apparently liberals think black people are just a step away from being crazed, face-eating monkeys. It doesn’t matter that Barack Obama is Harvard educated and has been elected president of the most powerful nation on earth, liberals still associate him with a monkey and it is insulting and disgusting. One really gets the feeling that as soon as liberals do a load of whites, they’ll be marching down the streets wearing sheets and burning crosses (which makes more sense for them since they have a disdain of Christianity — perhaps because Christianity is so favored by black people).”
http://www.imao.us/index.php/2009/02/crazed-black-hating-liberals/
The article below pretty much captures the problem, and why the cognitive associations of black people to apes is rather disturbing and troubling:
http://www.miller-mccune.com/article/little-things-are-still-a-big-deal-998
I thought the cartoon was disturbing. And to all of those of you who say “well, Bush was depicted like a chimp all the time,” I say: How many times was a depiction of Bush as ape shown with bullet holes? Right. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
210. Pat J wrote:
I say: How many times was a depiction of Bush as ape shown with bullet holes? Right. Zero. Zilch. Nada.
Peter writes: And how many times has Obama been portrayed as an ape with bullet holes?
STILL Zero, Zilch, Nada.
Get it through your SKULLS! The chimp in the cartoon was NOT Obama! Was not IMPLIED to be OMABA. Was not HINTED in the least to be in any way CONNECTED with OBAMA.
Why do you see racism where none exists?
Why do you insist others MUST see it when they recognize it is not there?
206 don’t tread . . . complete and utter nonsense . . . desperate scrambling for plausible deniability . . . You deny the racism in this carton because you don’t care about the racism in this cartoon.
Here’s another cartoon I saw recently, seriously, it’s great. There’s these two South Vietnamese prison guards, and they’re torturing this Navy pilot, some kid with white hair they fished out of the lake after being shot down . . . anyway . . . you’re gonna live this . . . the guards are attaching electrodes to flyboy’s nads and one of them says, “Not too much juice, we may need him to make a beer run later.” . . . a-ha-h-a-ha-ha . . . Is that great or what? . . .ha-ha-ha . . . beer run! . . . ahahaha, What? You don’t think that’s funny? John McCain? Where’d you get that. He was captured by the NORTH Vietnamese, not the South. McCain has nothing to do with this cartoon.
Give that a modicum of thought.
miser man @ #212 has completely gone off the deep end.
Trying to imagine a cartoon that doesn’t exist to prove your charges of racism that don’t exist is just completely nuts.
GET OVER IT. The Travis cartoon had NOTHING to do with Obama. And the more you push your agenda that it does and that its racist, the sadder and more insane you sound.
Pat J. – You are correct. I don’t think I can find a picture of Bush as a chimpanzee AND with bullet holes. (Of course, for the trillionth time, this cartoon is NOT of Obama.)
I cannot find such a picture.
I can only find an ENTIRE “DOCUMENTARY” about the “assassinaton of President Bush”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14608725/
I can only find articles during the Bush Administration that read “Lee Harvey Oswald and John Hinckley, where are you now?”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3612430/What's-so-funny-about-decapitation.html
I can only fine entire books titled – ‘The Assassinaton of George W. Bush: A love Story’
http://www.lulu.com/content/826391
And so on, and so on…..
So with all due respect, boo frikkin hoo. I said about a YEAR ago that at some point Obama would be compared to a chimp (This cartoon is NOT such a case!) and the left would have ZERO to whine and moan about it. I said some contemptible yahoos would talk about the unthinkable, which I will not even mention about Obama, you can figure it from the above, and the leftist artsy world would have ZERO to whine about, given their behavior of the past eight years.
The fact is, I, and many others concluded, that I cannot even THINK of what is off the table in attacking a President you don’t like:
Call for his death or killing? Check, see above.
Call him a murderer? Check.
Go overseas to oppose his policies in league with our worst enemies? Check.
Actually undermine his ALLIES overseas and try to get them defeated? Check.
Make accusations about US troops committing crimes, accusations that then fall apart? Check.
Threaten to jail him for acts approved by Congress, acts then continued by his successor from the opposite party? Check.
Again, so on and so on…
So, frankly, spare us the boo hoo hoo over this lame cartoon showing a dead chimp. If Obamba’s opponents simply choose to match what has been done to Mr. Bush since 2000, they are just getting warmed up. And millions of Obama’s supporters have absolutely jack-squat zip ZERO to complain about it.
Reaping…. sowing.
West Guard,
The artist chose the imagery for precisely the reason that it would cause controversy. People will be checking his comic out often from now on to see what other clever associations he will make. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that he was somehow rising above the fray. he was taking advantage of it, just as al Sharpton is using it to further his own agenda.
215. C wrote:
The artist chose the imagery for precisely the reason that it would cause controversy.
Peter writes: And just what controversy did this cartoon artist tell you personally he was trying to cause? Because unless you spoke to him personally, he told you in his own words “I’m drawing this chimp being shot just to cause controversy,” then you are making ‘fact’ out of fiction just to push your own agendas, just like Rev Al (where does he get the money to support himself and his hair? The man doesn’t hold any REAL jobs!) and his chorus of supporters are doing.
Living in NYC, I’ve had to deal with Revvy Al and his ‘mob.’ The man has not had ounce one of credibility since Tawana Brawley.
@150. Peter the Bubblehead:
Everybody here is aware of the chimp shot to death by police. This cartoon has plenty to do with Obama, because the caption talks about the stimulus bill which was his major policy victory for the week.
I don’t instantly equate an ape (chimps are not monkey’s) with Obama, or any generic black person. The caption made it clear who the cartoonist was targeting. Unlike all the chimp images of Bush, this one alludes to assassination – an extremely poorly thought-out cartoon, in my opinion.
Your understanding of racism is obviously very limited.
Peace.
DS
217. David S wrote:
This cartoon has plenty to do with Obama, because the caption talks about the stimulus bill which was his major policy victory for the week.
Peter responds: News for you Dave. The Rorkulus bill was written by Pelosi and her gang o’ thieves. it has NOTHING to do with Obama, except what you yourself are reading into it.
No REASONABLE (note the emphasis) person would equate dead Travis the Chimp in that cartoon with Obama.
Get Over It!
217. David S wrote:
Your understanding of racism is obviously very limited.
Peter writes: And YOUR understanding of racism is completely overblown.
Here’s an excerpt of the article I spoke of earlier. This in response to Bobblehead’s statement “Why do you see racism where none exists?”
Little Things Are Still a Big Deal
By: Phillip Atiba Goff
[..]Though much of the reaction to the cartoon has been outrage at the implication that our 44th president is remotely simian, there have been other messages in the blogosphere as well. A few pleaded with us to see reason in this post-Obama era. They begged us to understand that the cartoonist clearly meant to impugn congress, Wall Street executives and academic economists and that there was no racial subtext to the piece. Others saw the cartoon as racist but declined to become outraged. Saw the injustice in the image, but saw it as a minor injustice, not one worth worrying too much about. After all, having a black president means that America is post-racial and does not need to worry about petty things like harmless pictures in a paper.
The messages in my inbox mirrored the commentaries I saw online. A few (though not many) defending the cartoon. Many more exasperated with indifference. All of them insisted this was a little thing.
The best science available suggests otherwise.
For the better part of the past seven years, my colleagues and I have conducted research on the psychological phenomenon of dehumanization. Specifically, we have examined cognitive associations between African Americans and non-human apes. And the association leads to bad things. When we began the research, we were skeptical of whether or not participants even knew that people of African descent were caricatured as ape-like — as less than human — throughout the better part of the past 400 years. And, in fact, many were not. However, even those who were unaware of this historical association demonstrated a cognitive association between blacks and apes. That is, when they thought of apes, they thought of blacks and vice versa — when they thought of blacks, they thought of apes.
But the fact of this cognitive association was not the most disturbing part of the research. Rather, it was the fact that the association between blacks and apes could lead to violence.
In one study, participants who were made to think about apes were more likely to support police violence against black (but not white) criminal suspects. The association actually caused them to endorse anti-black violence. Most disturbing of all, however, was a study of media coverage and the death penalty. Looking at a sample of death-eligible cases in Philadelphia from 1979 to 1999, the more that media coverage used ape-like metaphors to describe a murder trial (i.e. “urban jungle,” “aping the suspects behavior,” etc.) the more likely black suspects, but not white suspects were to be put to death.
Not surprisingly, black suspects were much more likely to be described in ape-like terms. And they were more frequently executed by the state.
220. Pat J wrote:
Here’s an excerpt of the article I spoke of earlier. This in response to Bobblehead’s statement “Why do you see racism where none exists?”
Little Things Are Still a Big Deal
Peter writes: So, in other words, you are admitting racism exists because black people can’t get it out of their heads to equate drawing of monkeys, no matter what the context, as parodies of blacks.
In simpler terms, it is the blacks who are the racists here.
My point exactly!
Seeing racism where none exists is, in itself, a form of reverse-racism.
So let me get this straight, PatJ. All those years ago when I was a little kid watching Magilla Gorilla, it wasn’t about a cartoon gorilla trying to escape a pet shop to live with a little girl who liked him, it was a subtle, disguised attempt to portray that blacks should still be enslaved, and that they all want to be pedophiles with little white girls, right?
It’s all a racist conspiracy, I tell you! Revvy Al need to protest at the headquarters of the Cartoon Network, that vile home of racism and inequality! Everyone, quick, to the Al-mobile!
And in case the sarcasm is sailing over your heads, yes, I’m trying to sound like you people who insist the NY Post cartoon is a racist rant against Obama.
Pat –
Good info, but if you refer back to my post #214, I point out that the left has been de-humanizing Bush for eight years, considering him deserving of murder, and, yes, perhaps the whole ‘Chimpy Bush’ was part of that as well, as you yourself point out.
“Two wrongs do not make a right” are valid and good words, but until I see some of the perpatrators come out and say that they are realizing how contemptable and disgusting their bahavior was toward Mr. Bush these last eight years, I and many others may be inclined to see your point, but we just don’t care all that much.
As supporters of the admin this decade, we have been sh(excreted)t on for eight years by such people (now shocked to see “their” president doing many of the exact sam things for the same reasons), and we are not in much of a mood to hear whining from those who have been doing exrcreting
I’m doing you the honor of speaking frankly.
“So, in other words, you are admitting racism exists because black people can’t get it out of their heads to equate drawing of monkeys, no matter what the context, as parodies of blacks.”
———————————–
No. I’m admitting racism exists because people like you don’t understand the power of images to dehumanize. And that’s exactly what that cartoon does.
227. Pat J wrote:
I’m admitting racism exists because people like you don’t understand the power of images to dehumanize. And that’s exactly what that cartoon does.
Peter writes: That cartoon, in YOUR opinion, dehumanizes because that is what YOU CHOOSE to believe it does.
It was not the artist’s intentions, he has said so himself.
It was not the newspaper’s intentions, they have even apologized unnecessarily just because people are TOO sensitive and others are standing around just waiting for the opportunity to explout that sensitivity.
Drawings only have power if you CHOOSE to give them that power. By seeing racism where NONE EXISTS, you are perpetuating racism for another generation that might not otherwise have to suffer it. Either you are doing it for your own purposes or to hold power over someone else who otherwise you would not have that power over.
Typo: explout = exploit
Peter,
In answer to your last post, I made an inference about this comic based on the other comics this guy has written that are equally as provocative. Based on my observations, this artist intentionally stirs up the pot. I see your point but you have not seen mine because you are too busy looking for an agenda on my part and a way to dismantle my argument. I see that this is a commentary on the current stimulus plan and a shot at the Dems who wrote it. Your interpretation is more literal than mine. As a literature major, I tend to look for symbolism, metaphor, simile and other deeper literary meaning.
Second, by your definition, I am a racist because I to see a possible racist intent in the comic in question. When you have been victimized in the past on several occasions, human nature is to be on guard. I know you are going to say “Get over it,” but work with me here as see if you can see where I and many of my peers are coming from. Allow me to make an analogy. When I was bullied by that big 6th grader in second grade, every time a big 6th grader came my way, I flinched. Well forgive me for flinching when presented with imagery that so closely resembles the taunts I have experienced so often in the past. Our racist past is not so far removed. Asking me to forget that past is like asking a Jew to forget the holocaust (yes I made the reference as many of the stories my older family has told me are horrific). I am 37 and I have experienced my share of racism the so recent and my eight and nine year old daughters have also been victims as well. I agree that a mountain is being made of a mole hill and I and millions of black Americans have moved on. We work with you, befriend you, and we are disgusted by all the people, black and white, who will not pull themselves up by their boot straps and make something of themselves. Many of us roll our eyes when likes of Al Sharpton presumes to speak for the rest of us. Most of us are not whining and trying to foster white guilt. And we are not racist for seeing racism where it may or may not exist; some of us just have a perspective you may not have.
Third, some people would say that depicting Bush in an ape like way is just as insulting as depicting a black person as an ape, and on a personal level, I agree. However, when a black person is depicted as such, there is more history behind the imagery, so I say it is not the same on a collective level. When a person compares Bush to a monkey, he is commenting on Bushes intelligence. Historically, when the comparison has been made to black people, they have been commenting on the humanity of the entire race of people. Whether or not this comic is equating Obama to a chimp is irrelevant here. Saying that the depiction of one white leader as an ape holds the same ramifications as the racist tradition of equating an entire people to apes is an over simplification of the issue. One day this will not be as charged as it is today. Most of my friends judge me by the content of my character and I agree that things are definitely changed with the election of black man as president.
I will leave this with one last comment. Perhaps I am giving this artist too much credit for being smart enough to create a comic with multiple levels of meaning. I hope I am wrong and that no malicious intent was there, but I do believe he was intentional in his actions and I have about as much proof that he did intentionally create controversy as you have that he did not. You after all probably have not talked with the artist either.
Thank you for the interesting debate. I have quoted your arguments to counteract the liberal stance of some of my students when we discussed this in issue in class. I will share our interactions with my students and let them evaluate the exchange. If I get board again, perhaps I come back here and share the results with you.
Peace to you.
Yaknow what the crazy part of all of this ‘controversy’ is [to me]?
If this hadn’t been the NY Post I’d have thought for sure this was a diversionary tactic to distract from the whole Porkulus bill itself. Seriously! Is anyone mentioning the sickening Pork bill shoved down our throats? No. They are disgussing a rabid Chimp in an idiotic cartoon that wasn’t even really funny.
GAH!
I had written an extensive rebut to some of what ypu had to say Peter, but for some reason, it was deleted. I see know that this is a game for you. Pat provides a pretty good explanation in his aritcle for why associations between blacks and apes is detrimental and all you do is twist the words, pull snippets out, and address them in isolation. Your goal is to win an argument, not to engage in an argumentative debate, thus further discourse with you is point-less. Pat you will am get Peter Bubblehead to see any other point of view than your own.
Andrew X, it was an insult to compare Bush to an ape. It was even wrong. However, that comparison does not carry the same historical and social significance as the same comparisons being made to a black person. When artists made Bush look chimp like, they were commenting on his intelligence. He did make some pretty stupid statements during his tenure as our president. Historically, when comparisons were made to black people, the commentary was about the humanity of black people, or the lack thereof. In one case, a shot was being made at an individual. In the case of blacks, a shot (rather hundreds of shots) was being made at an entire group of people with the intent to dehumanize the whole and “keep them in their place.”
Was this comic a deliberate attempt at racism. I don’t know, that is stil debatable. I’m tired of that debate because it is fruitless. I can make my own inferences but in the end I do believe too much of a big deal has been made of it. I hope that you have ability to see the larger picture here. On a personal level, Bush should be offended. You personally and other people who like Bush have the right to be offended because someone you admire is being disrespected. However, the racist intent is not there.
I will give you this. I thought is was pretty messed up the way the man was depicted as an idiotic Texas hic. Now if your argument that he was a victim of prejudice as a result of those depictions I would be with you.
Internet intellectuals always seem to morph into internet tough guys…too funny! Look, if you want to take something/anything out of context and turn it into your own personal “I am offended” rant, go ahead, you have that right, at least for now! I think that most of the outrage about this topic on this thread is ostentatious and phony, but by all means, knock yourselves out. The pettiness that people display is hilarious. My take on the cartoon? I am no more offended by that depiction of “fill in the blank” than I am of the depiction of any government official or celebrity that ends up in a satirical display. That’s the price you pay for putting yourself in that position. Of course, those that make the comparison to the endless degrading cartoons of George Bush are right. Where was the outrage from the left? Double standards, and hypocrisy seem to be the order of the day… eat up!
230. C,
Hey, C! Ask what your students thought of 0bama’s racist church while you’re at it. -Oh, and ask them what they thought of the black people who cheered a double murderer being freed JUST BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN [you can juxtapose that with what if white people had cheered rather than jeered the Rodney King beating]. -And, ask them what they thought of their first lady calling white people ‘whitey’ and don’t forget to ask them what they thought of the racist crap spewed on O’s inauguration.
Fair is fair.
Thanks and have a nice day.
(this is a great thread! )
C – Your thoughts are well presented. The idea that Bush = Chimp is a little different than a genuinely racist comparison to a whole group of people is a valid one.
But I would ask that you consider the following:
I would say that the “cultural war” has settled into a genuinely tribal conflict. As we know, there are plenty of tribes of the same skin color in bitter conflict over values, rituals, mores, traditions, etc. And that is where we are today in America.
So when it is said “Oh, Bush is an idiot, that was all about him and him alone….
a) I don’t buy the premise, I think Bush has a far better grasp of America’s history and role in the world, but that is another day’s argument
b) A lot of us are quite understandably convinced that such attacks were NOT all about Bush, they were in fact tribal attacks against the conservative and traditionalist “tribe” in America.
One of a voluminous number of reasons we feel that way? Sarah Palin.
Was she truly qualified to be President? I have qualms. Was she even slightly LESS qualified than Obama? No way. And we are seeing the cost of Obama’s lack of executive experience every day now. But that too is another day’s argument.
But today’s point is the absolutely and astonishly unparralled, I will say it, gang-rape of Sarah Palin by the nations elites and media, an attack that boggled the mind. It is utterly utterly without question that, had such a vicious and relentless attack had been unleashed against Obama, it would have been seen as a “racist attack”, and probably rightly so. Attacking him/ her entirely on who (s)he was and tribal values. Backwoods, cracker, hick, small-town, under-educated (i.e. not Ivy League)… just not “our people”. Bush was attacked for the very same thing. But Palin’s attacks began literally within 72 hours of people discovering she existed at all. 72 hours after that, how many hated her guts. Based on….. what? Her “tribe”.
That…… is racism. Pure and simple. And it is practiced by journalists, actors, politicians, academics, people of color…. All without apology. But it is racism, simple as that.
So, no the Bush and Palin attacks were NOT about just one person, they were about a tribe, and racism targeted against traditionalists (yes, many of them are white) is just as real, just as tribal, just as atavistic, and just as wrong. And we too are seeing it every day.
Just some food for thought.
232. c wrote:
…and all you do is twist the words, pull snippets out, and address them in isolation.
Peter writes: Just following the Dem/Lib model so eagerly employed for the past 8 years.
What’s the matter, because it’s being used AGAINST the Dems/Libs/Racists, it’s no longer fair?
Hey Delia,
What about my posting brought on this reaction? Never mind that, don’t bother replying. You and some other folks on this page have some deep seated rage. I come to Pajama Media to hear the otherside and offer a differing opinion. I hating Huffington because too many idiot run off at the mouth and I hope to find more sane people here. You know what, I will stick to reading the article because they have some pretty good things to say sometimes that make me think. Reading the comments gives me a headache. America is divided, not because of race but because too many people on both sides are so busy shouting at each other to hear each other.
You have a nice day also.
Andrew,
Thank you for acknowledging the merits of my arguement. Allow me to do the same for yours.
I agree that Palin, as well as Clinton I might add, were unfairly attacked, but I would not call it racism, but rather sexism and in Palin’s case, also classism and cultural-centrism (my culture is better than youors). The tribes of this country are complex ones and as I said, I agree with your premise that attacks on Bush and Palin did go after a segment of the population, and so I retract the statement that the insult is on Bush alone. You have convinved me.
I watched Bill Maher call Palin a “Bimbo” and I was personally offended. I also was uncomfortable with how she and small town America were characterized. I have two girls and I am concerned about how they will be treated in this obviously sexist society. If Obama had been attacked in such a manner, you are right, there would have been an up roar. The next big frontier is to conquere sexism, and it is people on both the right and the left who are guilty. I have read comments right here on Pajama Media referring to Michelle Obama as the “first skank.” I also might add that the right was all too willing to attack Clinton along sexist lines and even Palin said Clinton should stop complaining about sexism and just run and do her job. It is ironic that she was brought down via sexism.
Can I ask you a couple of questions? I am in no way trying to be a smart alec here. What would Republicans have done if Obama had a teenage daughter who was pregnant and about the marry a an unsavory young man, as Palins daughter was? Would Republican strategist been as forgiving of one of the Obama girls? Second question. Do you think a black candidate could win a republican presidential nomination? I don’t have many friends from our Republican tribe and i am genuinely interested.
It is bad to practice bigotry of any kind, but for liberals to practice sexism or any other kind of out prejudice is plain hypocritical, and for that I am ashamed. All I can do is keep being me and hope we can work it out.
I had decided that I was done reading the comments and then I happen to see your reply as I finished my “farewell” entry. You have shown me that there are thinking people out there with who I may disagree, but with whom I can get along and engage in a real discourse. I’ll come back here to see if you answer my questions. Thank you.
When my daughter was in high school some of her teachers would get on the subject of President Bush and rant and rave for the entire 50 minutes with the students sitting there as a captive audience. Even if the students didn’t agree with the teacher, they kept silent because they either felt it was useless, or were concerned that their opinion would affect their grades. Now that she is in college she is careful with who she talks with about her opinions and observations because she has experienced liberals who get very nasty and confrontational when someone disagrees with them especially about President Bush. Good job liberals.
Just a thought c:, in case you are really a teacher, and you have a captive audience, and some students are concerned a opposing opinion would affect their grades. I am not accusing you of that, of course, because without knowing, I wouldn’t dream of accusing you of something that was not true.
C., I meant no offense. What I was trying to get at [in perhaps too round-a-bout of a way] is that it seems you are asking about a political cartoon like this in your class with the clear intent of discussing racism or the perception of racism against blacks and so I countered with some things on the other end of it [i.e. black against white racism]. -But, maybe I jumped the mark and you have already discussed Barack’s racist church and pastor with your students etc.
My bad!
C –
I appreciate your sentiments, and agree that these forums can take a turn for the obnoxious and ignorant.
I pretty much used “racism” and “tribalism” interchangeably, possibly being confusing. I think “tribalism” is a word that encompasses all of the other “-isms” mentioned, and maybe even a better term to work with, as it points out the absurdity with being proudly “anti-racist”, and then turning around and succumbing to the same atavistec impulses in a different direction, something I see far too much of.
What would Repubs have done regarding Palin’s family et al? The tougher of the two questions. I’d mention that, in the same way many pounce on Christian Republicans who judge others sexually and then stray themselves, it was passing strange to see a collection of people who celebrate all sorts of “alternatives” in families, sexual experimention, and virtual absolute non-judgementalism in these matters suddenly “find Jesus” in this matter and get into a lather over Sarah Palin’s teenage daughters. But I think the point worth making is that that was far from the only issue she was attacked on. (consider Wasilla getting the fine-tooth comb treatment and Obama’s Chicago being ignored to this day) It really was the tone and nature of the attacks. In the same way a dog knows the difference between being kicked and being tripped over, it was obvious the difference with geniune (understandible) concern about Palin and rabid, drooling, foam-at-the-mouth loathing, contempt, and hatred based, as I said, on nothing whatsoever about her as a politician. It was truly Klan-like behavior, it really was, and it is remembered as such, believe me.
As to the GOP nominating a black man…. Easy, and already answered, I think. I think they would have nominated Colin Powell (who NEVER wanted it, believe me, the only reason he wasn’t in the running), and I think with a short bench right now, Michael Steele is as odds on a favorite as any. I always thought a black man would have to be GOP to win the office, so, shows ya what I know. But yes, I most certainly do, and Steele right now is in a position to be big in the primaries come 2010. Then I honestly believe how he does will have nothing whatsoever to do with his race, but how well he runs.
I appreciate us both raising the level of discourse here. As I said, it’s actually a good thread, all things considered.
C. Good questions, though I would take issue at discribing him as “an unsavory young man.” We know little about him, he seems to be ok, of course as a father of two girls in their 20′s, I probably would consider any young man of their age “unsavory”. But we can look at the coverage of Chelsea Clinton, Amy Carter, Al Gore’s son and his problems as opposed to Bristol Palin, the Bush daughters as some kind of guideline. I’m sure no one here would wish Al Gore III anything but Godspeed in dealing with his problems. As for a black winning GOP primary, definately yes. Colin Powell only had to say the word. Micheal Steele would be a very good bet, especially if he had won enate seat in Maryland. Had J.C. Watts stayed in politicics, also excellent choice. But his time may still come. Blackwell and Swann are two names that come to mind.
Keep it simple and silly: A cartoon depicting the mother of all pork “Hogzilla Piglosi” with a vacuum cleaner snout voraciously sucking up loose change on the street amid a horrified fleeing crowd.
And if it won’t risk creating protests and boycotts from pork lovers, then by all means add in ‘a wild eyed Rush Limbaugh, chasing the big porker, on a John Deere tractor sized porkchop slicer’
239. LynnS,
LynnS, that’s one of the BIG reasons I home-schooled my daughter. The Liberal infestation into the school-system has made ‘free-thinking’ a joke. God forbid a teacher use his/her intellect without prejudices of her own to infect and be FORCED on a child’s still growing mind.
The Libs are brainwashing our kids. It’s sickening. They can’t handle truth or using counterpoints with their narrow-minded ideals and only use ‘examples’ to discuss because of their own agenda.
Guess what? Thinking of Black People associated with primates is never gonna die because Lib teachers will basically ‘bring this to light’ into the young, growing brains of our children so that from that moment on they will ALWAYS associate blacks with monkeys/apes/gorillas/chimps.
See? This is the problem with giving a Lib teacher too much rope…they HANGE themselves.
Wouldn’t it be NICE to have a generation of children who NEVER thought for even an inkling of an instance that a simian is associated with a black person? -But, nooooooo. Teachers such as C. want to clarify, hone it home…make a whole ‘subject’ out of it and be sure that a whole new generation of ‘victims’ are raised up with associations they would have NEVER made OTHERWISE.
Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Libtards amaze me at their blatant ignorance and pathetic REACH for sympathy to the point of painting themselves into a corner.
Big, Fat, DUH.
Andrew and big red, thanks for you feedback. I’m not sure I agree with you because I have heard of too many less than open-minded Republicans express some “tribalistic sentiments” that place them at odds with blacks in general, but I will admit that a large part of my belief is influenced by the media and we all know that media will put its own twist on any issue. By the way, if Colin Powel had gotten the nomination, he is a man I would have crossed party lines to vote for over Obama because his stance on people issues is pretty progressive but he would take a hardline on defense and the economy. Being a Maryland resident, Steele was not my choice.
In answer to Lynn, I see your point and I see teachers who do use their power to influence youth politically. I happen to be in a very liberal county and much of the student’s liberalism did not originate at school but at home with their parents. I find more often in my classes that it is the other kids who make the ocnservatives feel uncomfortable. My constant concern is that kids regergitate what they hear at home in school and I will always challenge a student who is not thinking; in my case, most of them are liberal.
I have read papers that express complete opposite opinions than the ones I hold and I have analyzed those paper with the same scrutiny that I have any other paper. If I disagree, I will point out a counter arguement and paint the paper red, then turn around and say, “Here is your A. Now her is how you shut me down and anticipate my arguements to make your point stronger.” By the same token, I have had to take a conservative line in my classes more often than I have had the chance to express my liberal beliefs because I can do more to create independent thinkers by playing devil’s advocate.
There are teachers who love to hear themselves talk and I do as well, but there are several of us who are not trying to endoctrinate your kids or push a liberal agenda. Some of us are genuinely trying to prepare students for the world they will live in. If I preach about anything, I preach about how important it is know what you believe and why you believe it. I think I am fairly successful at doing this because my four most outspoke McCain supporters from last year always stop by my office to discuss the issues with me. One in particular loves to see if he can stump me and to tell the truth, I taught that little rugrat too well, because more often that not, he manages to get around my rhetoric.
Delia, one last thing, please do not over generalize and make assumptions about anyone. You say, “Teachers such as C. want to clarify, hone it home…make a whole ’subject’ out of it and be sure that a whole new generation of ‘victims’ are raised up with associations they would have NEVER made OTHERWISE.” We are studying Othello, a play about a black man living in a white society. This is salient to our class lessons so I shared the comic with them and controversy around it in connection to the text we are reeading. Simply allowing kids to form their own opinions based on the what they see is not honing anything. Othello raises these issues, so should we ban all literature that might depicts blacks or other ethinic groups negatively to keep the next generation from developing those opinions. Should we shut down the Holocaust museum and pretend it never happened? Should we forget about Japanese internment, American Indian domination …. I think we should talk about the issues, show how things have changed and encourage students to look to the character of a person, accepet difference (including difference of opinion), and above all else know thyself, and they will figure it out.
By the way, my white students were the ones most offended by the comic and my black students were more willing to defend the comic and state that the comic was more a commentary on a stimulus bill and the association was most likely unintentional. I was fasinated by the level of discussion and in the end they saw two points of view and I let them draw their own conclusions. In my experience, it is not the literature, media, and rhetoric people are exposed to that continue prejudice, it is the lack of communication, making of unfair and unfounded assumptions about people’s character, and an unwillingness to try to see the world through another point of view.
Sorry for the long winded response but I do you brought it up so don’t blame me.
I recall another incident, this with my son in high school. The school they attended was racially mixed (good school). We live near a military base so there is a community of Caucasians, Asians, Latinos, African Americans, etc. Part of the cafeteria is outside and there was a table of students who would sit and watch the clouds calling out the shapes or images they saw. One one particular day, on of the girls, an African American, shouted loudly, “I see a rabbit!!!!!!” A group of boys which included my son looked over at the table and stared for a moment at the table. The African American girl jumped up, went in to the office, and a short time later a teacher came out and began lecturing the boy about tolerance and how this was not the type of school that treats people this way and so on………
I asked my son why no one at the table protested and explained why they had looked up and stared at the young girl and he shrugged and said, “It wouldn’t make a difference.” “She didn’t ask for our side of the story.” I am pointing this out, not because of what the young girl did (silly girl), but because the teacher automatically assumed that the boys were guilty.
I think, that is what makes me so mad about racial issues, the rush to judgment. It is getting to the point where someone can be accused and found guilty without proof or questioning, and any plausible exclamation is dismissed. Even someone who makes a stupid thoughtless remark, and after their life is examined, they prove to be a decent person, and they express sorrow and attempt to make amends, there are those who demand they be hung out to dry.
Often lately, I’ve been thinking that being liberal makes some people actually more rigid, unforgiving, and intolerant.
Methinks the Chimps have a corresponding complaint, yet no one is taking their side.
It is not a life or death matter. loosen up and look at the cartoon on the SondraK page!
http://sondrak.com/index.php/
245. c,
“one last thing, please do not over generalize and make assumptions about anyone.”
~
Oh really? See, “an unsavory young man” from your own assumptive post. -Considering the black community is rampant with young people having sex I’d think you’d use a little more equanimity.
~
-Do you even read yourself? You’re comparing teaching about the Holocaust to a political cartoon to give veracity to your argument? Oh c’mon now, teach! Cut me some slack!
“By the way, my white students were the ones most offended by the comic”
Well, DUH! Of COURSE they were because the onus is on ‘whitey’ after all. Get IT? YT guilt and you rammed it home. Whites bad…blacks ‘victims’. Of course the black children didn’t want to take it so seriously because maybe they DON’T want TO BE victims! HELLO? Give kids credit where it’s due. You just divided your class into race by using a political cartoon that has no place in a classroom unless you teach politics. Don’t you see how WRONG that is?
~
“Sorry for the long winded response but I do you brought it up so don’t blame me.”
Don’t be sorry at ALL. Please! It’s healthy to debate and even argue a bit over issues that some people are afraid to touch because we have to be all “PC”. That’s politics! -Having a dialogue about this subject between ADULTS is not a bad thing. If I come off sand-papery it’s because I’m fed up with some of the Leftist mentality.
-
246. LynnS,
Exactly! Especially this part, “Often lately, I’ve been thinking that being liberal makes some people actually more rigid, unforgiving, and intolerant.”
Another monkey in the news!
Huffpo and the Blue Scrotum Monkey Story
Those not familiar with the Huffington Post, a blog unaffectionately nicknamed Huffpo, founded and owned by Ariana Huffington and Kenneth Lerer in 2005, aren’t missing much.
The muckraking Ariana’s website, known mostly for leftist hate speech and distortions, outdid itself the other day with a tape involving radio commentator John Gibson and the latest monkey news.
Monkeys certainly seem very much in the news lately what with that Connecticut chimp which ate a woman’s face and was killed and the monkey cartoon in the New York Post which Al Sharpton interpreted as racist. This story involved a third monkey, on the loose in a Seattle zoo, identifiable in the wild by its bright blue scrotum.
Since that was part of its description, the woman reporters…
(Read the rest of this article at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=855 )
Darn. Minorities are making me feel bad. I`m gonna donate $2 to the N double-C PT
This rather mirrors our own thoughts: http://smokebreak.blogshevik.com/?p=196
Have some people nothing better to do?
You just had that epiphany now? I don’t know any liberals who aren’t flaming bigots, and haven’t for decades.
Well, after driving a good portion of Saturday to NYC and getting to the corner of 125th and Park Ave (admittedly a little late because of the trains) just before noon on Sunday, I have to ask…
Where were you Victor???
I thought we were going to take a walk together?
On the brighter side of race relations, I was not accosted by any bigoted people of any race, and felt quite comfortable walking west along 125th, until the cold started getting to me and I decided I would rather spend my free day visiting some actual friends instead.
Sorry you missed out, Victor. Maybe next time, huh?
People also need to realize that racism is psychological, and when people blow things like this up, they are bringing more mental anguish to people who it hurts. The media knows this, and they like to see black people reacting and feeling bad, because it sells news. All of the folks who are always the big controversy spinners don’t realize that be they black or white, they are adding to psychological racism by making such a big publicized deal of things. When people just start to call ignorant things, like a possibly racist cartoon, as just ignorant, and take the necessary legal steps, than black people will truly be on the path to being mentally free of oppression. Unfortunately, the media would never allow this to happen because, as I said, they want to sell news. They want to show you the pain and aggravation, and they do not care if it causes more people pain and sorrow. They do not care if they are proliferating a modern form of psychological racism through victimization. Until people start to turn their backs on racists, and simply alienate them, black people will always be susceptible to manipulative psychological oppression. Sharpton and all of those folks need to pay that some mind, and work on empowerment in new generations as opposed to further victimization. And maybe, in fact, that is what they are trying to do, but when the media gets there, they want everything to be dramatic and painful, so it comes off that way. I just don’t know about that for sure. What I do know is that it isn’t making anyone feel any better.
Maybe it is racist, so what? Barack was in a racist cult for twenty years and no one seems to think that was a big deal.
I laughed my head off and I’m not a racist. Dems got what they had coming. What an idiot government to pass a bill that will derail the economy without reading what they’re spending the money on! Next comic should show many of the liberal democrat monkeys black, white, yellow and whatever jumping up and down like the monkeys they are!!! Many of the Republicans should get into the comic as well because they are monkeys too!!! All serious racists, black, white, yellow and whatever, you are all jumping up and down now because you think you’re so right. whaah-waah-waaaaaaaah!!!
I laughed my head off and I’m not a racist. Dems got what they had coming. What an idiot government to pass a bill that will derail the economy without reading what they’re spending the money on! Next comic should show many of the liberal democrat monkeys black, white, yellow and whatever jumping up and down like the monkeys they are!!! Many of the Republicans should get into the comic as well because they are monkeys too!!! All serious racists, black, white, yellow and whatever, you are all jumping up and down now because you think you’re so right. whaah-waah-waaaaaaaah!!!
MWL:
So, whenever the national geographic channel airs Chimp on Chimp violence, are they racistly portraying inner city crime?
I didn’t think about any racial connotations in the cartoon at all. I just took it to mean that any monkey could write a stimulus bill. The way this stimulus bill was, any monkey could write a better one than the dopes that wrote this one (which was NOT Obama, by the way).
Freedom of the press is still alive. Even hateful, misinformed, paranoid, bigots are able to express their opinions.