The ‘Mosqueteria’ and Canada’s Fuzzy Church-State Line
Over the past few months, a “mosque” in Toronto has inspired quite a hubbub in the blogosphere and Canadian press, even prompting demonstrations, including some in September. As in many mosques, the genders are segregated, with males sitting in the front and females in the back, but it is the location of the “mosque” — a public school — that initiated the controversy. The Valley Park Middle School basically converts its cafeteria to a temporary mosque in which Muslim students hold Friday (jum’ah) prayers.
The arrangement at Valley Park has triggered a heated discussion that offers an opportunity for Canadians to reconsider the appropriate boundary between church — or mosque — and state, and for Americans to be reminded of what works well within their legal system that draws a fairly robust line between the two.
Transforming the lunchroom into what has been called a “mosqueteria” on Fridays reportedly was a response to a sizable portion of the school’s Muslim-majority student body (around 80%) leaving to attend a local mosque, not returning promptly thereafter, and missing a lot of class time. To address the issue, the school’s principal, Nickolas Stefanoff, “revived” a similar program used by the school several years earlier. The meeting minutes of the Toronto District School Board (TDSB) from November 24, 2008, describe the initiative under “other business,” which ironically references another program aimed at raising the confidence and self-esteem of girls at school. (Perhaps what transpires in the cafeteria on Fridays is not helping.)
Though it has been operating for the past three years, the “mosqueteria” came to wider public attention recently when the Blazing Cat Fur blog covered the story, including complaints reportedly from parents who disapprove of the practice. While a religious service taking place in a public school started the controversy, it is the disturbing image of the gender-segregated cafeteria — with boys at the front, girls separated by a barrier and far behind them, and menstruating girls excluded at the back — that fueled the fire and sparked opposition from across the political spectrum.
Prominent among the myriad objections is that, by occurring within a public school, the services create the appearance of state endorsement and possible pressure for other students to conform. Further, while a person’s right to free exercise of religion should be supported even if it includes gender discrimination, which many abhor, it becomes another matter entirely when carried out under the auspices of the state in a public school. At that point free exercise butts heads with equal protection. However, “fixing” the gender segregation problem alone would just spawn another: government entanglement in religion and interference with free exercise. Finally, denying Muslims the right to hold prayer services because some aspect of them is objectionable, but allowing other religions to proceed, introduces the specter of discrimination.
Each of the above concerns has been raised in the debate surrounding the “mosqueteria.” But what is the solution?
Strange, but I have not heard of a lunchroom in Canada ever being converted into a Catholic chapel, especially during Lent? Did I miss something in the story? Are Catholics allowed to gather in the gym in Canada and hold a mass, or are they also allowed to turn their lunchroom into a large confessional when there are enough priests around? If Catholic students have to find an actual church to do all of this in, why can’t the Muslim students go to an actual mosque? I think it’s because the Canadians, far more politically correct than we are here in America and way, way, more into multiculturalism than we are, are more afraid of their ever-growing Muslim population and so will do just about anything to humor them. And that is how they will lose their own identity, by appeasing Muslims whenever they demand something. In short, Canada is becoming Europe.
Right on. There is another issue that people are not aware of. I taught for four years at three schools in a Muslim country. At each school, we foreign teachers were told that the kids were not required by Islam to participate in the three calls to prayer that occurred during the school day. They were not required to attend Friday prayers. They were also exempt from fasting during Ramadan. Islam does not require these observances for students K-12.
This situation in Canada is an example of Muslims trying to cram their religious beliefs down the throats of Westerners. They believe, and rightly so, that nobody will question what they say is a requirement of their religion. The truth is that these kids at Valley Park Middle School have no obligation to attend Friday prayers.
Our ignorance will be our undoing. People better wise up about Islam.
Your comment makes an important contribution to this case and to what should be general awareness. I live in Toronto and wasn’t even aware of this school situation but I will copy your remarks and pass them on to the appropriate people. The Trojan Horse in our communities are working hard for their cause.
Just in passing, might I mention that the US was not based on separation of church and state? If, unlike Leftists and Libertarians, you can read, you will notice that one effect of the First Amendment was to guarantee that any State that had, or decided to, establish an official State religion was free to do so without interference by the Federal Govt. We’ve had various Thanksgiving Days and calls to prayer from Presidents since Washington. What Western (formerly Christian) nations are discovering is that any functioning society will have a religion. It may be the religion of the majority, or it may be a minority faith; but a religion it will have. But look at Russia — secular states have never existed in any place at any time for more than about 70 years. And Russia sucks!
I was thinking the same thing; this school now needs to allow Catholic priests to come in and offer Mass, especially if there’s school on Holy Days of Obligation. Will there a space for it on November 1, the Feast of All Saints? December 8, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception? Archbishop Collins should get on board here!
Well….the Canadian Gov’t is starting to change things concerning the Islamic stealth Jihad. Prime Minister Harper now has a majority Government!
Public schools in Canada do not allow Religion in the school. Private schools for Catholic Children do. This is why the uproar about this school when others across Canada finally heard about it!
The Province of Ontario and Quebec have the largest concentrations of Islamics. This is why they are starting to pull their BS!
I have heard that PM Harper will be implementing that Islam will not be considered a Religion but a seditious political party. He has already stipulated that Islamism is our number one enemy! He is going to make it harder for Islamics to immigrate to Canada.
The Canadian people are starting to wake up to the fact that we can no longer celebrate multi-culturalism like we have been for so many years! Not everyone is willing to assimilate into our culture and follow our laws!
Ohhhhh…..Canada ? (sigh)
Menstruating girls at the back?
How shameful and primitive.
It’s hard enough for a girl to deal with the onset of puberty without being sealed off as toxic. And who checks to see who is menstruating, or, at that age, if she has begun at all? Might as well wear a sign on her back.
Why is it anyone else’s business?
Because of the rampant sexual perversion inherent in Islam.
The prophet himself was a pedophile.
I heard about this a few months back and long story short had a dialogue with our local Newspapers Multi-culti editor about this and an article she wrote about her daughters thoughts that America is Islamaphobic. She couldn’t/wouldn’t defend the Canadians. Anyhow as a thougtful consolation, I offered her and her daughter an all expenses paid vacation to Mecca on the condition that they wore western clothes and at least made an effort to enter the grand Mosque. This included air fare and 5 star hotel. She never got back to me.
But I am sure her daughter would consider me an Islamaphob for my hateful offer to send them to the land of tolerance. I am sure she would think “WELL, you just don’t understand”. Yeah right.
It’s not a phobia when they are, indeed, trying to kill you! Read a koran… if the “infidel” can not be converted to islam or enslaved, they are to be put to death. It’s written pretty clearly in black and white…
It’s going to be an interesting history lesson 100 years from now: how Western Civilization hung a “Kick Me!” sign on its own back.
The sign should read “Stab Me” for they are out to kill the Canadian cultural heritage and when the kufars (non believers) do not accept and take up the Islamic faith – kill the kufars as they are commanded to do in the Koran.
So now you are IN FAVOR of separation of church and state? I am gobsmacked. LOL!
This entire discussion is based upon a premise that islam is in fact a religion. I contend that islam is not a viable religion, and that it should be made illegal to practice in all the countries of the free world.
NO religion makes it a death sentence to leave said religion.
Their holy or holy books the koran tells them in simple black and white that whomever decides to leave islam is to be put to death. This tells me that this is indeed a cult.
It may be the largest cult in the world, but a cult none the less.
You may call your dog a duck, but it will never grow feathers and lay eggs.
Lets call islam what it actually is please. A cult based on a hate book, that teaches hate and terrorism.
Please.. go read a koran soon, then read up on the “Hadiths” and “Sharia” law that is, even now being force fed to some here in the USA.
Lets have the governments of the free world declare the practice of islam illegal so that the rampant murder and terrorism that moslems are causing around the world to be stopped!
Islam is a way of war and of taking over other people’s and countries.
Islam is not a ‘peaceful’ religion (cult) and provides little if anything for the benefit of the rest of the world.
Can you say, There goes the NEIGHBORHOOD!
“…and for Americans to be reminded of what works well within their legal system that draws a fairly robust line between the two.”
It is very dangerous when Americans get smug about how Muslims are aomehow different in America – or how our system somehow magically protects us from the Sharia-creep in the USA. Sharia and Jihad are inevitable WHEREVER Muslims congregate in large enough numbers – ANYWHWERE in the world.
Muslims are encouraged in their Saudi funded mosques by their Saudi funded imams to agitate for all kinds of concessions – footpaths and special exclusions for prayer time – this is happening in public buildings, commercial buildings, and within commerce. Muslims are agitating for halal meats in public schools and the jail system. Many times, it’s impossible for municipalities to spend dollars on separate food systems and delivery – so they surrender to the Muslims. And Muslkms happily exploit the implied threat of violence and “radicalization” to leverage their demands – even if they aren’t directly threatening violence. But our politicians and public functionaries know this, and wishing to avoid Islam-induced friction, they cave.
Remember during the London and Madrid bombings how often we were lectured in America by our political and social betters that “homegrown terrorism” was something that couldn’t happen in America? After Awlaki came to light, not to mention a long LONG string of homegrown Jihad attacks and conspiracies – Jihad is HERE -Sharia encroachment is HERE – Islam is HERE – we are not immune to that heinous picture of Muslim students segregated by the barbaric customs of the Arab fascist system of Islam…
Plus honor killings are here and from what I understand not one perp has been charged with his daughters murder. All killed because they were becoming too western.
Also, we have lost an entire city to islam. It is 100% islam and operates totally outside Constitutional boundaries. All locals have been violently forced out of the area. We all know its name – Dearborn.
It’s fairly obvious at this point that even Progressives don’t think of Islam as a religion. The majority of Young Progressives are hardcore Atheists, and think of Islam as the sword that will finally chop the head off of Christianity for good.
They just don’t seem to understand what will happen to them afterwards.
Your comment brings to mind a Japanese saying that also involves your handle.
“Kitsune to tanuki no bakashi ai.” The image is of a fox and a tanuki trying to connive each other.
Don’t think of the progressives as the brainwashed tools, but rather it true embodiment as exemplified by the Third Reich.
Nice comment. Christians are hated by large percentages of many groups; atheists and Muslims are in the forefront. Many atheists are liberals that hate Christians, and are happy to see someone else who also hates Christians. Christians are terrorized throughout the world. Many are killed or beaten daily. Our media rarely reports on any of this. See persecution.com
In the future, and down to this present day, countries run and controlled by religion, Islam in particular, have perpetrated massive human rights violations. It is against our strong beliefs in freedom and human rights to elevate and highly favor Islam – a religious/POLITICAL system where under Islamic sharia law, females are treated as inferior and non-Muslims have no human rights.
NON-MUSLIMS MUST HAVE HUMAN RIGHTS
Canada is betraying all non-Muslims everywhere.
No…Canada is not betraying non-muslims everywhere! We actually have a Government now that understands what Islam is all about! Remember the Prime Minister has had a fatwa on his head before and the Toronto 18 were going to capture him and behead him! PM Harper has a very long memory and doesn’t take kindly to such threats!
It has been stated on the Immigration pamphlets that all immigrants get when they enter Canada, that the Barbaric acts of Female Genital mutilation,Honor killings,child marriages,Stoning etc. will not be tolerated in Canada and that it is against Canadian Laws.
It would be arrogant of me to state that because there is a Muslim for President in the American WH. that America is somehow to blame for all the atrocities that are happening to non-muslims everywhere in the world!
Canada is a special country of the North. Its flag carries no weapons or eagles but a mere, peaceful maple leaf. It would be appropriate in Canada to provide any special groups who need a place to pray with Canadian venues that will help the devout get closer to God. Therefore it is suggested that outside the schools or wherever Muslims feel they need to pray that the snow be tamped down in fields or parking lots providing these locales don’t impede car or pedestrian traffic. We can’t have them messing up neighborhood sidewalks as they do in France. We can assure them that Allah will hear their prayers better when done in white fields of tamped down snow and since native Canadians and early European settlers who were devout in whatever their religion doubtlessly used the wide outdoors to communicate with their Gods this should give the devout Muslims an opportunity to relate more to the history of their newly adopted land. If this doesn’t suit them we could bus them to the vast number of Canada’s lovely lakes where they could pray while treading water and if that doesn’t work for them we could take up collections to give them the fares to return to their lovely homelands which they doubtlessly miss. Ultimately she make every effort and take every measure to make them miss their homelands.
They the moslem expect all other religions besides theres to submit to allah,end of story and women have no rights
Hmmmm. When I was young, I attended several religious schools. The Buddhist went to church after school. The Catholics before. Problem solved.
I assume they conduct their prayers not only in Arabic but in English and French as well to satisfy the Canadian/Canadien Government/Gouvernement.
Hmmm…I guess this will not be the first to happen, if allowed to repeat, with Islamic prayer demands. Well, fellow Canadians (especially those in places of power)…either suck it up and become dhimmi’s or smarten up and stop this idiocy before all of Canada descends into an Islamic hellhole. Stupid does as stupid is, is all I can say.
Toronto is a massive city, geographically and population wise. Everywhere, I mean everywhere you look their are hijabs, and niquabs EVERYWHERE. Most women are pushing a stroller with a little one walking and a bun in the oven. Wow. Write to the PM MP and MPP and demand they change the immigration laws to stop immigration from Islamic countries. I did. Islam is only peaceful when it is in the minority. As their numbers grow they demand more and more. The goal? Sharia Law over the planet.