Tea Party Leader’s Gun Arrest Highlights Tyranny of Law
Tea Party Patriots co-founder Mark Meckler faces a felony charge after declaring a locked, cased, unloaded gun in his checked luggage.
The role of legislators in a free society is not to make law, but to discover it. The “laws of Nature and Nature’s God” are not crafted by men, and ought to both supersede and underlie our civil decrees. Indeed, that is the root of the Declaration of Independence. Men have rights, and their government ought to proceed from those rights and secure them.
Such lofty notions are frequently lost in our modern political discourse, where the craft of law has become social engineering, saving us from ourselves. In such an environment, it is inevitable that we should arrive at a tyranny of law, where the web of bureaucracy and regulation is so intricate, tangled, and sticky that every man becomes a criminal in one way or another regardless of his character or conduct.
So may be the case with Tea Party Patriots co-founder and national coordinator Mark Meckler, who was arrested last week at LaGuardia Airport by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey on a felony firearms charge. There are conflicting reports regarding precisely what happened. However, no one is accusing Meckler of endangering anyone or harboring criminal intent. It appears he may have unwittingly broken the law.
An official statement since released to the press was initially sent to Tea Party Patriots state coordinators in an email. It stated that Meckler holds a permit to carry from his home state of California:
While in temporary transit through the state of New York in possession of an unloaded, lawful firearm that was locked in a TSA-approved safe, [Meckler] legally declared his possession of the firearm in his checked baggage at the ticket counter as required by law and in a manner approved by TSA and the airline, yet was arrested by port authority for said possession.
The California permit is not recognized in New York, a state which heavily restricts firearm possession. The Nevada County Sheriff’s Office, which issued the permit to Meckler, has suspended it pending the outcome of the criminal charge. That charge could carry a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison. However, CBS News reports that “travelers who are arrested in such cases and appear to be trying to comply with the law typically pay fines.”
Meanwhile, CAIR is screeching and TSA is sucking wind….
I don’t know about you guys, but I’m going to vote for Ron Paul because he’s the only one talking about ending some of this insanity!
If Ron Paul is the winning candidate I’ll vote for him also but if he is a 3rd party candidate like Ross Perot there is not way he would get my vote. Voting for Paul as a third party candidate will be the same as voting for Obama, it’s the way we got Bill Clinton with his 43% of the vote; you must be a Progressive.
Ron Paul is the Third Party candidate(RINO). In any event, Ron Paul will not be the nominee.
I’m getting tired of hearing this kind of stuff. I think this was done deliberately tryingto goad somebody in the TEA Party into doing something crazy. I called and tlaked to the prosecutir’s iffuce and got into an argument with the person I ended up speaking with. I think if any of you guys live in New York you ought to have all legislators who’ve changed these laws liks this voted out of office and arrested for ivoklating the Constitution this is not crimnial on his part, it’s criminal on theirs. This has got to stop things are getting out of control and it’s time New Yorkers take back their state from these whackos.
Law and regulations have always been the tyrant’s first choice when dealing with citizens who will not conform. The next step will be zealous enforcement tactics that could result in Ruby Ridge and Waco abominations. Our liberties have been eroded to the extent that even those who attempt to abide by ever increasing restrictions must be prepared to stand in the dock to answer to the all-powerful “government”.
TSA blows smoke, and sucks.. we won’t say what.
Some of us believe the Second Amendment ensures our right to keep and bear arms and allows for zero governmental infringement on that right.
The right to self defense is given by our Creator; not by Government. No state should be permitted to trespass on a right guaranteed to all citizens by the Constitution. Pre-emption is a valid legal principle when applied to specified powers as per the Tenth Amendment. Historians will record that the American Republic fell due to failure to enforce the Tenth Amendment. Ah, well…
There are several parts of this article that are interesting to me, to wit:
1) He’s a citizen of California, and not a crony of any sitting politician, hasn’t (presumably) made any large political contributions to a sheriff or whoever, and he has a CCW here in California? That’s weird…
2) Ignorance of the law is no excuse, even though the law now is typically 15 telephone books thick and varies wildly from state to state. Does anyone think that makes any sense at all? What if you’re travelling to all 50 states? Are you supposed to hire a local lawyer in each state to advise you on whether you’re breaking the law, bringing a firearm with you (that’s legal in California but apparently not New York) or a switchblade (which is illegal in California but legal in much of the rest of the country) or a gun with a magazine which holds more than 10 rounds (also illegal in California and legal in much of the rest of the country)? This could get really stupid….not that it hasn’t already.
3. Has anyone else noticed that there are so many laws these days that almost anyone can get arrested, on any particular day? It seems that most of the laws aren’t completely enforced, except of course you’re a Tea Party guy who’s rocking the boat…
I’m just sayin’…
I have long maintained that every single person in the USA has committed some crime by 10 AM each day. In a counry where you can be fined or imprisoned for things you didn’t even know existed, noone is safe.
You don’t even have to be gulty of anything. If you are arrested, it all too often comes down to, “We can make your life a living hell and bankrupt you” or plea bargain, where you admit to doing something you didn’t do.
I have a lawyer friend, who is sick of what they do. He deals with a lot of drunk driver cases. Most of the time, it comes down to the cop’s word against yours. Judges always believe the cop, no matter what. Knowing cops like I do, to assume they are not acting out of carelessness, stupidity, meanness, or arrogance is a mighty big assumption, indeed.
Notice how the chattering classes think Newt is crazy for taking some power back from the courts? I think it’s high time. If the Revolution was fought for anything, it was so noone had to seek permission from the Court to do what they wanted. How did we get back here?
Great stuff, Walter.
Accusing someone of committing a sue-able offense, and then failing to bring suit against them is in and of itself a sue-able offense in the state of Texas.
The idea is that if someone is accusing you of doing something they could sue you over, but aren’t going to take you to court over it, you can force them to either sue or stop saying that they can sue you.
That’s called “slander”, and I imagine all “57″ states have that law, not just Texas. Incidentally, I’m also from Texas.
Not so. Blood or urine tests tell the whole story with DUIs.
Your cheap shot at the cops is stupid.
Actually, this isn’t true, either. You can still be convicted of drunk driving, even if your blood alcohol levels are below the legal minimum. If a cop testifies that you were driving erratically and he felt you were a hazard, you’ll be convicted. This is true in just about every state. I know of no exceptions, but won’t make a blanket statement.
So, yes, the testimony of the cop is, at times, paramount to the decision of the judge. And there are plenty of cops who are less than reliable. Not all; not even most. But enough to make the system corruptible.
My father was a cop, my brother was a cop, five cousins and who knows how many family friends were cops. A combined service of well over two centuries on the NYPD between the lot of them.
And I never met one of them who didn’t abuse the badge to some degree.
One of the most interesting comments I’ve ever read.
I served as mp in army for few yrs, got hurt could not re-enlist, was going to go into state police when I got out.
the john wayne I am the law (and above it) attitude made me change my mind. way to many went into that field just for its authority.
ruined my damn knees for nothing really.
Aside from cowardice, what kept you out of the cops? And, how is your same sex marriage coming along?
Blood and urine tests for alcohol are notoriously inaccurate and often result in false convictions. It is a well-publicised scientific fact that these tests do not actually measure alcohol content. They measure keytones, which can be found in high levels in diabetics who have not consumed a single drop of alcohol, and can show a false positive. The tests and equipment have been pushed very hard by groups such as MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving). The political agenda of MADD even resulted in the group’s founder leaving the group, but now it is all about the money and not actual justice and public safety. I am 100% against driving drunk and will not do it myself, but law enforcement needs a more accurate way of measuring true alcohol content and ability to drive safely before ruining a person’s life.
Normally, in DWI cases, there is sooo much evidence against the arrested party. From video of the car swerving, to hearing the slurred speech, to seeing the swaying during interview and sometimes falling down, the evidence is normally overwhelming. What is normally the case is the that the defense attorney has to attempt to trap the officer on the stand and make him appear stupid and/or inept. I know, I was called that by the defense attorney. The guy I arrested was convicted by a jury.
I believe it was Robert A. Heinlein who opined that when your government begins to enact a million and one petty little laws, it’s time to pack your bags…or change governments.
To where?
That’s the problem, we’ve run out of “there’s” to leave to.
It’s time to change governments! These gun laws are blatant violations of ourt Constitution anyway. The ones who should be arrested, and then HUNG, are every judge and lawyer who helped pass these draconian, over-reaching gun laws in the first place. All of the gangs and criminals in that state and in NYC are armed, but law abiding citizens have NO rights anymore. Time to change this-or time to start “taking out” the elitist pigs that have taken our rights away. It’s up to the people of New York to decide that!
The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
What does the Constitution mean by “infringed”
The Dictionaries say that to infringe means to trespass upon, or invade.
In my lay opinion, a RIGHT is infringed anytime a LAW is made which turns that right into something that can be denied to ONE person.
If there si a law taht says “You may possess a firearm, BUT only after waiting for a background check, which if ‘something” is found, you will be denied PERMISSION to exercise your right” then you no longer have a RIGHT but a permission.
Rights are not CONDITIONAL. Either it is a RIGHT or it is a permit. Or license.
ALL weapons laws which make owning or possessing arms a conditional circumstance are UNCONSTITUTIONAL. In order to be lawful any such limits (infringements) must be a part of the Constitution, and example being restricting gun rights to criminals. It makes SENSE to tell criminals they can not carry arms, but it isn’t LEGAL unless that exception is a part of the Constitution.
If we allow restrictions without DUE PROCESS OF LAW then we allow all restrictions without due process.
DUE PROCESS would be to make limits on RIGHTS a part of the Law which enumerates those rights. There is no law below the Constitution which can CHANGE the Constitution.
Part of the problem is that “intent” has disappeared from the law. Now, all that is needed to be arrested, is that you broke a law, even if you didn’t know about that law.
you can even be arrested for planning to break a law, or rather for a police officer/prosecutor claiming you were planning to break a law, and will get sentenced to the penalty you’d have got had you actually broken that law.
precrime, anyone?
The law, and this attorney general in particular, is an ass. A venerable principle of our common law is that criminal liability does not obtain in the absence of “mens rea”, the intent to commit a crime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea#Ignorance_of_the_law_and_mens_rea
“Ignorance of law is no excuse” is ignorance in spades.
Absolutely untrue. Have you never heard of Manslaughter, Second Degree Homicide, etc.? Penalties are less severe for unintentional criminal behavior; but the ignorant are still held responsible. In the NT Heb.10.26 et ff expands on this subject.
loved your comments, and then we have people in Holder’ office parsing lying to congress as what was the intent of the person that wasn’t telling the truth.
The law is a horse’s rear end, and this case shows it.
As with so many other issues, where is the common sense and for what purpose is this being done, except to promote an agenda.
Maybe this man should have been a member of a Mexican drug cartel, then they would have given him the weapon, and patted him on the back
david you are correct there are way too many gun laws, over 23,000 to be correct
” Has anyone else noticed that there are so many laws these days that almost anyone can get arrested, on any particular day? It seems that most of the laws aren’t completely enforced, except of course you’re a Tea Party guy who’s rocking the boat…”
California requires permit holders to so cause for why they should be allowed to carry. Meckler has cause. He receives threats on a regular basis.
California does not issue permits. Individual counties inside California issue permits. In LA county, us normal people do not get permits. In Shasta county, pass a background check, you get a permit.
2) Ignorance of the law is no excuse, even though the law now is typically 15 telephone books thick and varies wildly from state to state. Does anyone think that makes any sense at all? What if you’re travelling to all 50 states? Are you supposed to hire a local lawyer in each state to advise you on whether you’re breaking the law, bringing a firearm with you (that’s legal in California but apparently not New York) or a switchblade (which is illegal in California but legal in much of the rest of the country) or a gun with a magazine which holds more than 10 rounds (also illegal in California and legal in much of the rest of the country)? This could get really stupid….not that it hasn’t already.
There are over a million lawyers in the United States, roughly one out of every 300 Americans. You’re right, ignorance of the law is no excuse. This is known as the “lawyer enrichment principle.” You should always consult a lawyer before doing anything – getting in your car, going to the bathroom, airline travel, whatever. Why should lawyers have to suffer because people aren’t fully informed of the legal ramifications of living?
/sarcasm
In some California counties, yes, you can get a CCW without being a political crony. (Generally this is true in the counties where there is little need to carry a gun. Once the crime rate makes carrying sensible, permits become impossible without bribes.) When I lived in California, I had a CCW.
The claim “ignorance of the law is no excuse” packs the concealed assumption that the law is knowable. Discoverable only by exhaustive research typically requiring the assistance of expensive specialist professionals is not “knowable”.
Obviously the State of New York is unconstitutional and should be struck down by the courts.
Or, does that exceed what Speaker Gingrich considers the powers of a proper court?
Yes, but the problem is, if you bring these points up – as you have here – you’re a fascist. Or a racist. Or whatever. And in twenty or thirty years, there won’t be a soul among 1,000 who’ll realize that you’re absolutely correct.
There is nothing better to get the unwashed Americans clinging to their weapons, and Bible P.O.ed than to see a true American get hassled for following the Bill of Rights.
Money will come in, and more people will add themselves to the Tea party.
This is good for the nation.
Good to know that every morning there is a subject or debate, or person, that is worth my attention. Yes, there will be a solicitation for aid to Mr. Meckler and I will be on board with it. Absolutely.
Was he merely changing planes in New York City or had he been there for a meeting or some other business reason? If he was changing planes while in transit then the Federal rules should prevail. However, if he carried his weapon to NYC while on a visit, that was stupid. He should have left it at home.
My thoughts too. I’ve driven through NY with locked weapons – going from permitted state to permitted state. But bringing a weapon into NY or MA on a visit is just dumb.
The CBS story states that he was checking in at La Guardia. Changing planes doesn’t require checking in, so he must have been visiting. Also, it was a Glock pistol, not a rifle or shotgun. A few minutes of googling is all it takes to find out NYC’s gun laws. Either he’s an idiot, or this was a publicity stunt.
Does changing airlines require checking in?
Does reporting news require reporters to be accurate?
The fact that he was checking-in at LGA did not necessarily mean that his trip originated in NYC. He might have originated outside of NYC, where possession of the pistol might have been legal, and was transiting back to CA.
I’m an NJ resident, with an NJ Firearms ID, and have often transported an unloaded, cased firearm from Newark NJ to domestic locations. Other than making the declaration, and having the firearm inspected for being unloaded [which used to be done by the gate agent, more recently by TSA], I’ve never had any questions or trouble.
On the other hand, there was a recent case of a guy from PA who missed his connection at Newark, stayed in an airport hotel overnight, and when he went to check-in the next morning, declaring an unloaded, cased firearm, the gate agent summoned Port Authority cops, he was arrested, and it took a long time to clear the matter. Don’t know if he ultimately got his firearm back.
Although Port Authority controls all three NYC area airports [JFK, LGA and EWR], I wouldn’t be surprised if the “enforcement, i.e., persecution, at JFK and LGA was very different than EWR.
If he left california to go to the East coast – was he supposed to go unarmed (if he was receiving threats) both to and from LAX?
Additionally, just because he flew into LaGuardia…what if he spent his time in NJ? Just flying in and out of airport now if you aren’t living there you can’t fly with a locked weapon? So if someone was going hunting in Montana, brought their rifle to airport, that is impossible in any airport like JFK since it is in NYC with harsher gun laws?
The very fact he was checking into a flight seems he was in transit.
I’ve always had to check in when changing planes, just not at the ticket counter, but at the boarding area. Who knows, it could have been the boarding area he declared it, just to be sure he was safe. There are still plenty of cops around past the security check-in.
Not so. Check AA.com, there are a number of itineraries that include changing not only planes but airports in New York. some connections for Miami-La Guardia-JFK-Barcelona is one comes to mind. So it is entirely possible that this could be inadvertent.
New York just sucks and the local “authorities” have been ignoring federal gun transport rules for ages. The last place I would change planes and check a gun in my luggage would be New York — the most self-absorbed, self-centered armpit in the world.
A source told me he stayed in NYC for a week. He flies frequently, so I imagine he had done this with no problem many times before in other cities.
This is a pretty simple case – if he was staying in NYC and not just travelling through then the Firearms Owners Protection Act (FOPA) doesn’t protect him and he’s screwed. If he was just transiting through NY, then he’s got a great lawsuit on his hands, and I hope he sues the port authority for a few million dollars, because those guys definitely need to be knocked down a few notches. NYC’s second standing army, more or less.
Anyone who thinks this is the kind of abuse of law that needs to be stopped (and punished) should make sure you call your senator and express your support of the senate equivalent of house bill 822 (whatever it is, I couldn’t find the reference). It passed the house back in November, but I don’t think it’s been brought to the floor in the senate yet. It’s a national reciprocity act that says that any state that offers a concealed carry permit has to honor the permits from any other state. You still have to comply with the laws of the state you’re visiting, but at least crap like this couldn’t happen anymore, because while it costs ridiculous amounts of money in NYC to get a permit in NYC and you have to know someone to get one, they *have* them. Man, if that bill passes it’s going to burn the asses of NYC residents when visitors come to NYC after paying $25 for a five year permit and in NYC it’s something like $300/year.
A New York State concealed carry license is not valid in New York City, although a New York City license is valid every where else in New York. That is one example of why they call it the Empire State. Peasants from the provinces have fewer rights than Citizens in The City.
The rule is, if THEY transship your luggage between carriers at the airport, you are within the protections of FOPA… but if they give your luggage BACK TO YOU to carry to the next point of embarkation, it’s “in your possession” and you are screwed.
Furthermore, check out the “special advisory” here:
http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=59
Mark’s biggets crime was that he wasn’t an illegal alien. If he was he would have been set free with no charges. Cops in NC and FL have told me that they have been instructed by state authorities that illegal aliens are to be set free without charges unless they are caught committing a serious felony. Where I live we have illegals constantly getting stopped driving with no license or insurance and they never get arrested, but if a legal citizen gets stopped doing the same thing they go straight to jail.
Are we seeing the beginning of a Supreme Court challenge to these insipid gun ban laws? Or, is a direct challenge to the constitutionality of the TSA and by extension DHS? I hope it is both.
It is a long, decades pre-Heller established precedent in law that in the manner he was carrying it that it is legal to go from where it is legal, to where it iit is legal. If his counsel is competent, I expect he’ll be fine.
Like to see a 1983 action against the idiot LEOs.
He’ll be fine except for the not miniscule legal fees he’ll have to pay to his lawyer.
True that.
Air travel has always had it’s peculiarities.
My first experiences with air travel resulted in my alcoholic drinks being cut off because we were flying over a dry state or county. One sip at that time, and you’re a criminal.
And driving through these same areas with an open beer could result in the same.
Since there are numerous and conflicting laws regarding weapons conveyance, TSA could have one consistent law that applied to all travelers while actively engaged in airline travel. But that would make too much sense, be too easy to comply with, and not allow the TSA to grandstand to justify its existence. The inability to harass a political opponent would be heartbreaking also.
Having an FFL license is the only avenue of transporting weapons legally within the varying laws of all these states and counties. But, even that has it’s restrictions.
Needless to say, the conflicts in these laws and regulations make it convenient for these states and municipalities to harass and arrest whomever they deem “criminal”.
Legislation could have been enacted and applied long ago that was consistent over most of the country, but, inconvenient to these lazy and deceitful politicians and their servile attendants.
I seem to recall a story about a midwestern (Kansas?) District Attorney who was trying to make a name for himself by sending sherrif’s deputies to Chicago to board a plane flying to California and then arrest the stewardesses when they served drinks at 30000 feet over his dry bailiwick. Anyway, when they landed in LAX, the deputies were arrested by the Feds and charged with air piracy and threatened with the death penalty.
In the end, all the charges against everybody were dropped and the DA agreed not to do that again.
Just making a wild assumption, but with the Progressives and Democrats trying to paint the Tea Party as extreme radicals, could this be a setup? Sounds like a perfect story for MSNBC to jump on.
Anything that is not specifically permitted,
…is expressly forbidden….
Just as the Constitution says…for the federal government…wouldn’t it be wonderful if the feds followed the Constitution for a change?
Yet ANOTHER good reason to NEVER visit NYC ever again.
Nor to fly anywhere unless you absolutely have to.
This has happened before. According to Federal statutory law, someone going from one place where it is legal to carry to another place where it is legal to carry, and is just passing through a state where it is illegal, cannot be arrested. It is illegal for New York State to arrest anyone abiding by the law. The last time this happened, though, the court refused to enforce the law.
I would maintain that it is Constitutionally illegal for New York State to stop someone who is has not committed a felony and is carrying a firearm. According to the 14th Amendment, each of the States must honor the rights and immunities of US citizens, and one of those rights and immunities is the Second Amendment (pesky little amendment). The Second Amendment guarantees all US citizens the right to keep and bear (i.e., carry) arms. Justice Thomas made this point in the Heller case (although the majority ignored the rights and immunities cluase of the 14the Amendment). It is time to starting to pushing back on the Court and on States to take notice of the first part of the 14th Amendment.
Just remember, modern firearms laws were developed by people who think that a barrel shroud is something you wear over your shoulders.
New York State does not recognize any other states’ carry permit. New York City doesn’t even recognize a NY state carry permit, the city having their own permitting system.You cannot even own a handgun in NY state until you are approved for a pistol permit, and are a legal resident of the state.
Even though there are federal laws allowing persons to transport a firearm through another state, if it is locked in a case and unloaded, some states do not recognize federal law and will arrest you. New Jersey is a case in point. Even if you are legally, under federal law, transporting a firearm through that state, the police will arrest you if they discover that firearm. I got stopped by a New Jersey state trooper one night, on my way to NYC from North Carolina. The first words out of his mouth were “Do you have any firearms in the car”.
I am a native New Yorker, but would never live there again, primarily because of their firearms laws. God bless Texas.
Even if you’re legal under New Jersey law…
http://www.nationalgunrights.org/it-can-happen-to-you/
Death of a Thousand Cuts to a class of political opponent. Mr. Aitken in NJ, Mr. Meckler in NY, and how many others? For each of them, how many other law-abiding armed citizens quietly decide it’s no longer worth the risk?
This talk of reciprocity brings up an interesting point. Wyoming recently chased it’s CCW law to read that anyone that otherwise meets the requirements for obtaining a CCW permit (under the old law) can conceal carry without a permit. So essentially, any adult that doesn’t have a criminal record or hasn’t been declared mentally incompetent can conceal carry. Is this going to be recognized by the the other states? Or am I going to have to obtain a CC permit in order to get reciprocity with other states?
But back on topic, this is an act of stupidity on the part of the transit cops and an embarrassment to the state of New York.
Walt, Arizona is the same way. As long as you are legally able to own a firearm you may carry concealed but if you want to travel to another state with it you need to go ahead and get the concealed carry permit for the reciprocity to be recognized.
Same in Alaska; carry unless prohibited. I’ve never asked a lawyer but my assumption and the lay advice has been that as an Alaskan without an actual permit, I would only be allowed to carry in other carry unless prohibited states, so I got the permit and am very careful about checking the contours and limits of reciprocity.
In the instant matter, we can hope the guy minded his Ps and Qs and was setting up a court case. If not, he’s an idiot.
This guy is a real moron. Why on earth would you bring a gun to NYC, for any reason? If you’re there to commit a crime then fine go buy a gun off the nearest street corner dealer and bypass all the checks. But to transport a gun through a NYC airport for the sake of carrying a gun in these jurisdictions is just plain STUPID. Now he gets to enjoy the ride of his life.
If you want to go to NYC, DON’T BRING A GUN.
And if you go to LA, god help you if you express an opinion.
At this point it is beginning to sound like New York has decided to disarm its populace through police intimidation, and it sounds like it has worked.
Sorry, but New York’s gun laws are in violation of the Constitution of the United Stateas, and all of the gangs and criminals are heavily armed. Any law-abiding citizen should have an automatic right to be allowed to carry concealed , for self-defense, and any and all laws that take away these rights are unconstitutional. It is only because the stupid sheeple of New York have allowed the fascist bastards in their local and state governments to take their rights away. Time to change that!
That Rosa Parks was such a moron. Didn’t she know coloreds have to ride in the back of the bus?
Stupid people not following the law.
Its naive to continue to consider Massachusetts,Rhode Island ,Connecticut and New York as part of the United States! We have our own laws,Big Brother tactics,and occupied territories in stark contrast to the old America and their first trimester values.We have long since abandoned safe neighborhoods,working for a living,buying our own food,and prefer the new matrix of the greater good. Now that i just retired i am looking forward to living off the system,stoping my fight for what is right, to relax and go with the flow.Forgive me you who still care but i*m switching sides and descending to where life is a lot easier.Would you mind carrying me to the package store?
You forgot to include New Jersey and California in the “Not Free” club.
You can add Illinois to that list as well.
“It is inevitable that we should arrive at a tyranny of law, where the web of bureaucracy and regulation is so intricate, tangled, and sticky that every man becomes a criminal in one way or another regardless of his character or conduct… Whether he violated New York statutes is a separate question from whether those laws are just.”
“Law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.” Thomas Jefferson
http://faculty.cua.edu/pennington/law508/JeffersonRights.htm
All individuals possess a God-given right to life and self-defense, so any law violating a mans natural right to self-defense is tyrannical law.
The subversives protect the criminals, it’s part of the general plan to destroy the society from within.
Anything that can increase chaos and disorder, that’s what the subversives support.
I read the guns laws for NY because I intended to visit som relatives.
It is LEGAL to transport a gun in NY IF you are just traveling through. If busted for carrying you need to show proof that you are traveling through to say Maine by having a hotel reservation.
Of course if you are going to visit a relative, you’re probably screwed.
NY sucks that’s why I left as fast as possible when I became 18.
That is why we must have a national guns rights policy. It is nonsense that law abiding citizens are ensnared in the tyranny of what is akin to a Second Amendment Speed Trap.
Odd that none of the other rights we have, under the Bill of Rights, are null and void when we cross a state line, except this one. Even retired SCOTUS justice Stevens, recently opined, that the court decision that the Second Amendment is an individual right, is very wrong.
In the face of all the writings of the Founders, this genius still comes to the conclusion that we have no right to keep and bear arms outside of a militia. This is a prime example of justices making political decisions and not legal ones. Justice Stevens, doesn’t like Americans keeping and bearing arms, and thusly tailors his legal opinions to reflect that prejudice.
According to the United States Code most Americans are in the militia.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/311.html
Just as Christmas is designated a federal holiday in the United States Code, we still have a “war on Christmas”.
(from nrail website) United States Department of Justice has issued a written opinion that federal law protects airline travelers with firearms, assuming: (1) the person is traveling from somewhere he or she may lawfully possess and carry a firearm; (2) en route to the airport the firearm is unloaded and inaccessible from the passenger compartment of the person`s vehicle; (3) the person transports the firearm directly from his vehicle to the airline check-in desk without any interruption in the transportation, and (4) the firearm is carried to the check-in desk unloaded and in a locked container.
Special Advisory for New York and New Jersey Airports: Despite federal law that protects travelers, authorities at JFK, La Guardia, Newark and Albany airports have been known to enforce state and local firearms laws against airline travelers who are merely passing through the jurisdiction. In some cases, even persons traveling in full compliance with federal law have been arrested or threatened with arrest.
Travelers should be aware that some state and local governments treat this federal provision as an “affirmative defense” that may only be raised after an arrest.
if he was visiting NYC or NJ for a week, that would rule out condition (1. Therefore these comments/conditions do not apply to the facts of the case
Interesting how the airline isn’t considered complicit, since they safely stowed it away and carried it into the state for him.
This administration is getting more Stalinist every day … and it’s showing.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/bruce-w-krafft/lying-liars-and-the-lies-they-tell/
Key portion: “Back in 1986 Congress passed and Reagan signed the Firearm Owners’ Protection Act, which, among other things, contains what is called the Safe Passage Provision. Basically what the Safe Passage Provision says is that if you are traveling from someplace where you may lawfully possess a firearm to someplace else where you may lawfully possess a firearm, as long as the firearm is unloaded and in a locked container, you are not subject to the firearms laws of the locales you pass through.”
HOWEVER: “…Going back almost a decade, the District Attorneys in several New York jurisdictions have flat out stated that they are not going to obey federal law….”
I did extensive research on the transfer of firearms across state lines for that very reason. No where and I do mean no where does it state that at firearm in a locked case is illegal including in the kangaroo court called New Jersey. If it did just going home from a gun store or a shooting range you would be arrested, end of story. Or we are all felons or both. Inside a federally funded airport? Are they insane? My wife and I were commenting on the last trip to California how the TSA is killing air transportation. The Port Authority Faux Police are going to make Delta, United, American, Southwest and others pay dearly because someone followed the TSA website and did nothing more than anyone else transporting a gun—to do that evil hunting thing and reduce the number of dear crashing in to cars. Sad for the USA.
So …
Federal law trumps state law inside airports so that Federally employed child abusers and takers of nude photographs are protected
But state law can trump the Second Amendment for innocent citizens inside those same ‘Federally controlled’ airports?
So the TSA is also being charged right?
He is supposedly a lawyer, he should know the law or at least know how to research it. Unwitting indeed.
Yet another good reason to avoid New York like the Plague
The idiot really stepped in it. Even the Reciprocity and Recognition bill won’t allow you to do what he did. The biggest thing about a concealed carry permit isn’t learning how to shoot but learning the laws. Maybe he napped through class. Or maybe the permit he has didn’t require a class. In my opinion every state should require the class. If for no other reason, to keep them from going to new york, new jersey, massachusetts, etc.thinking you’re legal. This guy might even believe that a carry permit allows you to actually use the gun. It allows you to carry it concealed in the state of issue and in states that recognise your permit. Once you break leather you better be in the right.
Your comments do not apply to the facts in this case.
He announced he had a handgun in a city that doesn’t allow you to have one without a permit.
Is that not a fact?
“The more oppressive the society, the more intricate the laws.
In Hell there will be nothing but law, and it will be meticulously enforced!”
….Unknown.
From my personal Website http://www.jaydee007.net
There’s a way to deal with this police state nonsense…
Just stay out of fascist hellholes like New York, California or any airport anywhere…and you’ll be just fine.
Then again, if you had a flight get cancelled, and you get your fight rescheduled and you haven’t had a CHANCE to review the gun laws of the State you are now routed through, what’s the deal then? the NRA’s Reciprocity law wouldn’t have any effect in Illinois where there IS no permit to carry, therefore, no reciprocity.
What part of “Shall not be infringed” do these communist dweebs not understand?
from what i’ve read, it has long been standard practice for experienced international big game hunters traveling through ‘hostile territory’ to make other/different arrangements for transporting their firearms. some countries have been known to confiscate them as they pass through. others have reported to have had their firearms tampered with, go missing or completely destroyed by people in those countries with access. some hunting lodges offer to furnish weapons to clients to avoid the hassle.
sometimes it seems like we in the u.s. really do live in two distinct and very different countries; or, maybe we have just attracted a lot of parasites.
Unless Meckler is trying to build a case to make weapons laws simpler, he should have checked the applicable firearms laws in the jurisdiction he was traveling.
Of course, some politicians make laws so large and arcane for the precise reason that they’re trying to pull a fast one on others, as evidenced by Ex Speaker Pelosi exclaiming about Obamacare: “We’ll have to pass it so you can see what’s in it.”
And it’s not just firearms laws; it’s the whole shootin’ match. We as a nation are being strangled by city, county, state, federal and other laws/regulations. I’d bet a sharp lawyer could convict you or me of something just by walking out the door of our house and strolling down the sidewalk.
Similarly, Clayton Cramer makes the case that the recession continues because the laws are so voluminous and incoherent.
http://claytonecramer.blogspot.com/2010/10/if-you-want-to-understand-what-makes.html
Professor/lawyer James Duane at Regent University makes a similar point; that is, because of the volume and incoherence of the laws on the books, an ordinary citizen could be prosecuted and convicted of things they have no clue about.
http://spoken-gems.com/2008/06/18/james-duane-in-praise-of-the-5th-amendment-right-to-not-be-a-witness-against-yourself/
Last July I flew from Baltimore to Austin on Southwest. I gave the agent at the ticket counter a locked gun case with a 20 gauge shotgun and a Glock 40 mm pistol in the case with instructions to check it to Austin. I had no problem with this at all. Must be the restrictive laws in NY. Lesson learned – never check a gun case with an unloaded gun in NY.
Wow Walter. Really, Wow.
That is a fantastic article. I will be saving this one to the hard drive.
Remember what Shakespeare said?
“If you want to solve the worlds problems, you must first start by killing all the lawyers…“
And along those lines be sure to remember that most politicians are lawyers too as are judges.
Remember that when you have eliminated all who KNOW the law, then it no longer exists. If memory serves the referred to Shakespearean character was in favor of eliminating the law, exactly like Obama, Holder, et al. Very, very dangerous for the elderly, children and those who abide the rule of law.
Corruptisima republica plurimae leges.” Most commonly translated as: “The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.” –Tacitus
Joe, thanks to His Majesty Bloomberg, the nation’s #1 anti-gun zealot, NYC is a good place to stay away from if you’re a legal gun owner, especially a White one. If you belong to the Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, or MS-13, hey, no problem. You are welcome.
So is he a political prisoner? Can he be imprisoned as a terrorist without due process, indefinately? (according to the latest defense spending bill) See what happens to the peeps when we try to take back the government , peacefully.
When the GOVERNMENT has planes, tanks, and armies the citizen has to either trust in that government or submit to it. There is no peaceful resistance because the imbalance in weaponry is so great.
But note that in this country the folks operating that artillery, and operating the bombers and tanks, are sworn to uphold the Constitution, not the administration. That could become very important at some point, and is probably the reason Obama called for a federral police force equal in numbers and equipment to the Armed Forces.
‘Course another way to approach that is to reduce said forces to the point they can’t do their job.
This seems to me to be a clear case where the principle of Jury Nullification is called for.
http://www.crfc.org/americanjury/lessons/nullification/definitions.html
Perhaps All U.S. gun owners should schedule a visit to New York soon. Together. And bring the objects in question to convince the politicians there that they are doing the wrong thing here.
Besides the privilege and immunities defense, wouldn’t it be interesting to toy with the notion that TSA occupied airports are federal jurisdictions?
Also, watch NYC try to get this guy to cop a plea. There’s no wat they would want to run the gauntlet that Chicago has. Its not the money to defend the statute, I understand. Its the principle, home rule to violate rights. Until successfully challenged that regimen stays intact.
Government bureaucrats don’t care. It’s not their money.. IT’S YOURS! If they had to dip into their own department’s bloated budgets to pull off this harassment scheme, this B.S. wouldn’t fly. Remember that famous saying that from time to time, the tree of liberty must to be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. This will continue as long as we permit it. When they came for his gun, you did nothing. Who will come to your aid when they come for yours?
Ask ANY cop how he feels about CCW!! If you can carry in one state, how come you can’t in another??!! It’s STUPID!! The word “intent” is GREAT as there was NO INTENT to do ANY WRONG!! Why did the right to carry law (just passed) all the sudden NOT APPLY here??!! I went to N.Y. about a year ago and I will NEVER go back!! This IS ILLEGAL HARASSMENT in my opinion!!
WHY do people carry?? Ask the lady (if you could) that was doused with whatever and set on fire last week if she would have LOVED this MAN for KILLING her KILLER!! and where did this happen??? NEW YORK!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Tragically, the United States federal and state governments have practically stripped their citizens of their inherent God-given responsibility for self-protection and intervention, with the exception of those who petition and jump through the government’s hoops to secure a concealed weapons permit. Keep in mind that one of the definitions for a permit or license is the permission to do what the government otherwise considers illegal, which makes a criminal of anyone who desires to fulfill his biblical responsibilities without the government’s permission….
“Nearly all gun enthusiasts point to the Second Amendment as their authority for possessing firearms. In other words, their authority to keep and bear arms can be traced back to 1789. Where did the men living in America prior to 1789 get their authority to be armed in defense of themselves, their families, their communities, and their nation? I suspect they got it from Exodus 22:2-3; Deuteronomy 22:23-24; Psalm 149:6-9; Luke 11:21, 12:39, 22:36; and 1 Timothy 5:8 – just as those living before 1870, when the first marriage license was issued, got their authority to be married from Genesis 2:21-24, etc. Why did what was already lawful by Yahweh’s standards suddenly, in 1789, need the authorization of the Second Amendment?”
For more, see “Amendment 2: Self-Defense: Constitutional or Biblical?” at http://www.missiontoisrael.org/biblelaw-constitut….
Listen to a radio interview Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, conducted Friday(December 16, 2011) with me regarding this very issue. It will aired on Saturday, December 31 at noon, EST, although some stations will delay the broadcast. Perhaps the easiest way to listen is online. You can find Gun Owners of America’s station list at http://gunowners.org/radio.htm. I hope you will tune in.
The fact that you make this case indicates you don’t understand what the Bill of Rights is. The Bill of Rights does not create rights in any way, shape or form. Rather, the Bill of Rights was ratified to declare the pre-existing rights of free people off limits from government interference. Now, am I claiming that it is okay to curse God or worship false gods? By no means! Rather, I am claiming that Dominionism is a heresy, as it seeks to usurp God’s role as Judge. God will avenge His Own Name, on His Own timetable; He has no need for us to do it for Him.
Furthermore, unless you wish to be under the jurisdiction of the ecclesiastical courts of the Roman Catholic Church, you should not be criticizing freedom of speech and religion, because if we are to declare blasphemy and idolatry to be capital offenses, we must have a clear definition of what constitutes such an offense AND a legitimate authority to examine whether or not such an offense has occurred. Who then, shall be appointed a judge? If you believe it should be ecclesiastical, the office of judge should rightly follow according to apostolic succession to bishops or their designated proxies.
By what authority can a man declare himself a representative of God and His Church? If he comes in his own name, he is a fraud. Rather, a judge of the ecclesiastical court MUST be a bishop or appointed by a bishop, otherwise he comes in his own name, acting on false authority. Don’t like it? Tough. The office of bishop is clearly established in the New Testament, as is the authority for bishops to appoint new bishops, as well as presbyters and deacons. A man cannot declare himself a presbyter, no matter how well he might preach or how long he has been a Christian. Neither can a king claim for himself the power to judge the Church. If you think the bishops are corrupt, by what authority shall the judges derive their powers, and why should we trust that they will be any less corrupt than you may accuse the bishops?
Besides, laws do not make men righteous. Only Christ can make a man righteous. In the hands of the wicked, the Torah is a weapon to persecute the faithful instead of upholding righteousness. If the people reject God, no amount of legislation can cure that. If the people do not fear God, why should they fear murdering the righteous by falsely accusing them of blasphemy when there is no one to contradict them but the accused? If two wicked men are alone with a righteous man, and the two accuse the one of blasphemy, giving consistent testimony, will not the righteous man be convicted and executed? Who will intervene on behalf of the righteous man and deliver him from the snares of the wicked? If you trust that God will save the righteous from such a fate, why do you not also trust that He will destroy the wicked for desecrating His Name? Sin is a reproach to any people, and giving them the Torah for their legal code only increases the curses brought on such a stiff-necked people; it will not convert them to righteousness if they persist in rejecting God as their King.
Good thing he didn’t shoot himself in the leg, then they really would have to make an example of him.
You have to break the law to find out what’s in it!
“Ignorance of the Law” is no Excuse… Say-ith New York.
“Ignorance in following a State Law that’s in direct Violation of our U.S. Constitution” is no Excuse… Ever!
Say-ith the ForeFathers, People, and Constitution of the United States!
Every American Citizen is guaranteed the Right to Bare Arms (Which he was – in a Secured Container no less)… “the Peoples Right to Bare Arms, Shall NOT Be Infringed” (this defining part of the second amendment is evident, regardless of the reasons why… given or not).
New York State has to abide by the U.S. Constitution first and foremost to join the Union of these “United States” in drafting Any Laws… Therefore this law is Horse Puckey… This Case needs to go to the Supreme Court!
The State of New York is Unjust in doing this… Absolutely Period!
Uhhh . . . .
That’s “Right to BEAR Arms.”
Only Billy Ray Cyrus has a right to bare arms.
“However, ignorance of the law has never been a valid defense. Queens District Attorney Richard Brown stressed that point to the press:”
Ignorance does apply if you are in the White House, DOJ, or other agencies though. This only applies to citizens.
I wonder what crimes I’ve committed today? I guess I need to be elected to office, that way, I can’t kill, steal, participate in insider trading, etc. I’ll be exempt from all laws, right. I’ll just claim “Ignorance.”
‘While in temporary transit through the state’ It is not clear to me if he was just changing planes or actually intending to carry the firearm in the state. I could see a charge if he was actually Concealed Carrying.
The big issue should be: The Federal Government was established to Protect the Union from foreign forces AND protect citizen’s rights. Unfortunately the Fed Gov is doing neither and actually destroying most of our rights.
My solution is to never to near States that are anti-gun. Period.
I am a strong advocate of gun rights, I have a lifetime carry permit in Indiana and carry 24/7, but I know better than to take a gun into New York, and especially NYC. All one has to do is go to http://www.handgunlaw.us and look up the laws of any state you wish to visit.
Corruptisima republica plurimae leges.” Most commonly translated as: “The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.” –Tacitus
This concept of leaving the gun at home when traveling to NYC misses an important point;That would deprive him of self defense everywhere from the gates at LAX to NYC,while in NYC and onward until he gets back to LAX. (Possibly beyond that,if it is stolen while “Secured” and stored.) Also,the point made earlier that Citizens in NY can’t have guns but gangs and other criminals don’t have problems with enforcement is an even greater reason the Citizenry MUST own and carry. Gun laws or not,a person would be insane to NOT carry concealed in NYC,knowing the criminal elements all assume none of the law abiding public can defend themselves with more than “taking a knife to a gunfight” force. I think the possibility of a “Carrying Concealed” arrest,and the ensuing legal battle/media circus is infinitely preferable to being injured or killed in the street by a gang member from being denied your right to self defense. (Wouldn’t the crooks and killers be surprised?)
I was at La Guardia this past week, and I saw TSA pat down a wheelchair-bound old man. They made the 90-something frail little man stand for the procedure. They had him prop himself up on a steel table.
Also found a notice in my checked luggage when I got home to the effect that TSA had searched my bag for no apparent reason.
What I experienced and observed are minor compared to Meckler, but was really much more than should be allowed.
ignorance of the law has never been a valid defense.
An unconstitutional act of any state legislature is no law at all. The statute under which Mr. Meckler is charged violates our civil rights, and any government official who acts under color of authority to enforce it is a usurper and a criminal himself.
-jcr
So true… and that could be expanded to any governmental body that makes laws, rules, regulations that violate our Natural Rights. These actions don’t rise to the a level that would be considered Laws but are simply UnConstitutional Goverment Actions!
I was under the impression that Federal statutory law or regulations required that you actually demonstrate to the baggage agent that your weapon is unloaded. IOW, you must unlock the case, show it to them and then lock the case with a lock that only you have the key to. They are not allowed to identify the case as containing a firearm but such baggage is handled in a different manner, i.e., it must travel on the same plane that you do.
So, my speculation is that he was merely trying to comply with the Federal requirements and volunteered too much information. But, we simply do not have sufficient facts to intelligently discuss what caused him to be charged.
Alas, once charged and identified, then I’m afraid the politics have come into the mix.
We already have a Supreme Court precedent stating the right to carry firearms is a Constitutionally guaranteed right.
I would hope this case goes through the appeals process, is found to comply with the Constitution exactly, and cause the State of New York to scratch the law.
IMO, the law is illegal on the face,but New Yorkers voted Hillary Clinton in as Senator with her artificial residence.
I’m not surprised New York has such laws totally ignorant of the Constitution of the United States. Do you think it’s because so many liberals live there that the island of Manhattan is tilting to the left and making every appearance of sinking?
So when a state wants to have its own laws about border security and personal identification, this is “dogwhistle racism” and totally illegal.
But when a state wants to have its own insanely restrictive gun laws, well, it’s up to us to just deal…
Every time I hear another of these stories, one more little chip flies off my patriotism. I’ve been disgusted with the national and state governments for a long time, particularly those in the idiotic blue states. However, it was only under Obama that I first realized that I truly despise the national government. If they were trying to destroy the country deliberately, just what, exactly, would they have done differently than they have since 20 Jan, 2009?
I used to work for the Federal Government. I’d be ashamed to work for them now.
Has to be a totally bogus story. I used to travel with guns all the time and if what is stated is true he was following the rules/law. One declares unloaded firearms in a locked box at ticketing counter. The airline validates that it is unloaded. Works. Done it on international travel plenty of times.
If you have been transiting with hand guns through New York airports, you have been living on borrowed time and eventually your luck will run out.
Something similar happened a few years ago to singer Harry Connick Jr.
If you have a firearm in your luggage, your best bet is to schedule a flight that does not involve landing in New York. The extra cost and inconvenience you might experience is nothing compared to the cost and inconvenience of trying to stay out of Attica on a felony firearms posession conviction.
In RE:
” Has anyone else noticed that there are so many laws these days that almost anyone can get arrested, on any particular day? It seems that most of the laws aren’t completely enforced, except of course you’re a Tea Party guy who’s rocking the boat…”
It has long been stated that the best way to demoralize a society is to enact so many laws that to comply with one would violate another.
As to:
“I believe it was Robert A. Heinlein who opined that when your government begins to enact a million and one petty little laws, it’s time to pack your bags…or change governments.”
The Declaration of Independence says that, “… We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness”
How about the military transiting through NY. Do they get an exemption and why?
Let me tell you a story from back in the days when Nike Herc bases surrounded our major cities and some of those missiles had nuclear warheads. One of the nukes was being trnsported by helicopter when it experienced engine trouble. It landed and the chase helicopters carrying a couple of squads of guards landed within NYC. A police car drove up to see what was going on and a NYC police officer attempted to arrest the officers and NCOs who were carrying .45s without NYC pistol permits.
The miliary, at least in thse days, had absolutely no sense of humor when it came to nukes.
Fortunately the cops backed off before they were ventilated with multiple M-14 holes.
Anyway, that is some illustration of the attitude of NYC officials towards anybody except NYPD carrying hand guns.
So this incident took place in the late ’50s/early ’60s? Wow. That 1908 Sullivan law really started to mess things up over there.
As a long-time resident of NJ, I can tell you that NY and NJ are totally irrational in the manner in which they restrict the possession and use of firearms and the strange and unfair laws which punish the innocent for infractions. Oh, yes…don’t get caught with a pocket knife in NJ.
My wife and I would have departed NJ several years ago but for the unfortunate turn of economic events making it almost impossible to sell our home.
These liberal, blue states deserve the loss of their productive citizens LEAVING for states that uphold our Constitution.
What if his plane had been diverted to New York from a state where the gun-in-transit would have been legal? He would have no way to comply, and no way to expect he would have to comply. A law that makes interstate travel legal or illegal more or less by systemic whim is probably not constitutional, especially when it involves exercising an enumerated Right.
He most likely would not have had to handle his bags, unless it caused an overnight delay. Before receiving his bags would be time to declare the pistol.
Given only the above information, I gotta say it seems he is not guilty of the charge if he did not have the weapon with him and it was instead in possession of the airline upon arrival in NYC. He was only called on the charge after making the required declaration. Apparently NYC is saying to the citizens it is illegal to own a firearm whether you possess it or not. We here in this forum do not know all the circumstances of the situation since we were not there. So, all anyone here can otherwise do is speculate what happened.
Not true, Just another citizen;
The second amendment in our constitution, gives us the right to own, and poses firearms. Nowhere in the constitution, does it say except,”NYC”! The state of NY, and NYC. are in direct violation of our second amendment!! Every state that has such permit requirements are also in violation! They can all go straight to hell!
I will own as many guns, riffles, shotguns, and automatic weapons as I feel fit!
It is high time that the states, recognize their inability to not only issue permits, for guns in a reasonable manner, but to constitutionally enforce such permits. We have the second amendment for gun permits. We need nothing else, to give us the right to own, and posses, as many guns, riffles, and ammunition that we want.
There is no policeman, or officer of the law, that can protect you, and/or your family from imminent danger. We have always had to bear that responsibility ourselves. The law enforcement can only react, “after”, any injustices have been committed against us, or our family.
Everything I have posted here, is pure simple fact!
So tell me when was the first gun permit issued, and what was the reason for such a permit to be required? I think you will find out that it was simply a new source of revenue, that the government felt they had the “right”, to impose!