Sudden Acceleration or Creeping Fear?
Toyota Fatalities
Toyota has more recent model cars on the road than any other manufacturer. It would not be unusual to discover that at least a plurality of accidents are from drivers of Toyotas. This includes accidents in which there are fatalities. (Nothing below is said about non-fatal accidents, which are more numerous.)
The Los Angeles Times has compiled a list of all accidents with fatalities involving a Toyota (including its Lexus model), in which the accident was reported to the NHTSA as a possible case of sudden acceleration.
Megan McArdle of the Atlantic crunched through the Times’s article and compiled and made public a spreadsheet which highlights important details of each case.
I did not use McArdle’s spreadsheet, but referred directly to the Times’s compilation.
Since 1992 — there was one in that year; the remainder are from 2003 or later — there have been 41 fatal accidents reported to the NHTSA blamed on sudden acceleration and Toyota. In some cases, the drivers were killed; in others, the drivers killed either their passengers or people external to their car. Many of the accidents occurred with vehicles which were not on Toyota’s recall list.
To pick a report at random: Ella Mae Braswell, 85, killed herself and her husband while driving a Camry off a highway into a tree. There were no witnesses. The police could not discover why the car left the road. Her son complained, “There was not any indication that she tried slowing down.” This incident was reported to the NHTSA only after Braswell’s son heard of Toyota’s difficulties.
Another: Koua Fong Lee, 32, was exiting a freeway with his Camry and crashed into a car in front of him, killing its three occupants. “A Minnesota jury convicted Lee of vehicular homicide, concluding his foot had been on the gas and not the brake pedal. A judge sentenced him to eight years in prison.” Lee’s lawyer later heard of Toyota’s troubles and is appealing. “It seems to be blatantly obvious that [Lee's crash is] an accelerator issue,” he said.
One weird theme was the number of reported “accidents” which had no driver’s names. For example, one report filed in Buras, Louisiana, in 2007, alleged a Camry suddenly accelerated into another car and that both exploded. Yet “Louisiana public safety officers report no fatalities involving a Camry in their state on that date.”
In five of the 41 crashes reported, no police record could be found verifying that there was an accident. None of these crashes had driver’s names supplied to the NHTSA. That leaves 36 accidents which were verified.
Families from three of the incidents declined to sue, stating variously, “We don’t have the money or resources to try to fight Toyota,” “[We have] no intention of suing,” and “It would’ve been the giant versus the little guy.” These three cases involved driving in the rain on a highway, a car backing out of a parking space, and driving out of a lot into traffic.
The claims of not having enough money to sue are odd, especially in these litigious states, where any number of lawyers would have gladly taken the cases on contingency. The suspicious nature of the crashes might have convinced the family members that blame could not be laid off on Toyota.
That leaves 33 accidents. In seven of these, police reports directly blamed the drivers. Citations, judgments, even criminal trials resulted, as in Lee’s case. Family members, drivers, and lawyers later sought to blame sudden acceleration.
If we accept the police reports, we have 26 suspicious cases left. One happened in 1992 in a 4Runner, long before Toyota was said to have systematic problems. That leaves 25.
Of these, 10 had no witnesses; family members either sued or reported the incident only after hearing of Toyota’s troubles. In one of these, the driver was on the way to the hospital to receive treatment for bipolar disorder. Two ran stop signs and crashed; one was shifting to drive after backing up. Others drove off highways and hit something off the road.
Where it could be determined, the ages of these drivers was 34, 58, mid 60s, 72, 79, and 85 (the bipolar driver’s age is unknown). Older drivers, of course, are more accident prone.
We’re down to 15 suspect cases. In one of these, the driver was later determined to have suffered a stroke while at the wheel. That leaves 14 incidents.
One of these is a complete unknown: it is a bare report to NHTSA with no details whatsoever.
Now 13. Three of these involved accidents while parking or while driving out of a parking spot. The ages of these drivers was 68, late 60s, and 83. These kinds of accidents were the very kind attributed to operator error in previous NHTSA investigations.
Two of the 10 left had definite brake problems. One driver, before he crashed and died, called 911 and said that he had no brakes. Another had been serviced a week before for bad brakes.
We have eight remaining, and none fits into an obvious pattern. The attorney of one said his client was unable to shift to neutral. Another victim’s wife, who heard her husband “drifted into oncoming traffic,” decided to sue. A third driver was seen to be driving erratically, drove into the breakdown lane, and eventually crashed.
An 18-year-old crashed after taking a curve too fast. His dad said, “It’s a very dangerous, tight corner” that his son “knew” about. Another driver crashed into a lake: a week before she had removed the vehicle’s floor mats. Police said the car was going 47 MPH when it broke through a guard rail.
That leaves two cases which are the most suspicious. Sixty-six year-old Noriko Uno sped down an avenue and struck a telephone pole: her parking brake was found to have been pulled. Finally, Jean Bookout (age unknown) accelerated her Camry into an embankment after losing control, according to a passenger she had with her.
Who’s to Blame?
Absolutely none of this proves that all or most crashes were caused by driver error, circumstance, bad brakes, or any other reason. It is possible that each of these fatal accidents was attributable to sudden acceleration, itself the result of some mysterious, as yet undiagnosed, flaw in the design of Toyota’s cars.
But given the enormous number of claims made to the NHTSA, the media’s propensity to swarm and exaggerate, and the nature of these 41 accidents — many more plausibly attributable to driver error than to mechanical failure — it is likely that Toyota is receiving a bum deal.
Tens of millions of Americans are on drugs most of the time (prozac etc.) so why should it be surprising they get the gas pedal confused with the brake?
“Koua Fong Lee, 32, was exiting a freeway with his Camry and crashed into a car in front of him, killing its three occupants. “A Minnesota jury convicted Lee of vehicular homicide, concluding his foot had been on the gas and not the brake pedal. A judge sentenced him to eight years in prison.” Lee’s lawyer later heard of Toyota’s troubles and is appealing. “It seems to be blatantly obvious that [Lee's crash is] an accelerator issue,” he said.”
Wouldn’t there have had to have been some evidence of deliberate murder to get that kind of sentence out of what would otherwise be accidental manslaughter?
there is no lottery type pay out for driver error and the media has decided to run with this.
Toyota is getting a bad rap for some of this. There may well be some issues with their cars but probably not more then any other.
People have found out Obama can’t really help them like he promised, so now they have gone another route…hey, let’s see if we can get money from Toyota! One guy got caught, but that won’t slow down others from trying.
My wife has a 2009 Camry. She took it to the dealer to get the fix. Now it’s the same as it was, but she feels much better about it.
And Toyota “has admitted that its floor mats in some models are not ideally placed such that they might become lodged under the accelerators.”
I would like to know how having a floor mat lodged under the gas pedal could contribute to unintended acceleration? Could someone please explain that one to me?
I call BS. As head of Production Test for a major mainframe mfr back in the 70s, I’ve encountered many failures that appeared inexplicable. No Trouble Found is the bane of the profession, now called QA.
I submit that the sudden “unintended acceleration” claimed must be an undiscoverable contagion that afflicts only Toyota owners. For the time being.
Consider how difficult the design challenge posed by intentionally creating a failure modality that randomly kills only a very few of each of your model owners.
This doppleganger maliciously leaps from model-to-model, wherein no models have intechangeable hardware parts or software versions? Sure. The plaintiff lawyer claims it’s a ghost-in-the-machine. Ergo, the only cure is exorcism by extortion.
Toyota workers in the US are members of UAW right? It’s a gov’t approved/supported lynching. Honda is next. That’s how the Left operates.
RE: #4 – I meant to add that every failure I encountered was eventually explained by real universal laws.
That the MSM is complicit in rousing the rabble to lynch Toyota;
That sadly half the population/jury pool believes in ghosts, supernatural influence, etc. and frequent extraterrestrial visits, abductions, impregnations et al.
That I could not design better propaganda campaign to destroy Toyota’s reputation as the “world’s most reliable vehicle producer,” in light of the fact that this is one value-proposition where US Motors always lags.
See: Steven Kings’ Christine. At least we’ve been successful in killing off all those stealthy malicious Plymouths.
Glad to see this information. I have suspected for a while that most of these were cases of operator error. Seems in cases of actual accelerator problems it was still operator error because they panicked. I’ve had 2 cars where the accelerator stuck and both times I was able to stop safely. In one case it was the floor mat and I replaced it, problem solved. In the other it was a used care and the accelerator cable was bad. Replaced it myself for less than 20 bucks. Problem solved.
The real problem in this country is not the cars, it’s the drivers. So much easier to claim vehicle error than operator error. Especially when perhaps they want to cover up that they were doing something they should not have been doing. Like talking to texting on their cell phones. Or eating. putting on makeup. Or just not knowing what to do in the event of mechanical failure or other driving crisis. Look at how many people swerve to avoid an accident instead of using their brakes. Not to mention drive too fast, tailgate and just don’t look where they are going.
One day, My car took off by itslf. I was able to stop the car and get it to my shop. I not only found the exact cause, but I re-engineered the car to have an electric gas pedal so that I no longer needed to use my foot to press the gas pedal.
For money, I will detail the problem and the fix. Let some Lawyer hold the money, You give me the car and I will show you why it takes off by itself and then how I re-engineered it. Then I collect.
JMO, but I believe some people involved in this gas pedal scenario may have difficulty with the cruise control option in their vehicles.
Some vehicles cruise control features DO NOT turn off when applying the brakes. Albeit older models though it does occur.
Until American car companies can provide caliber-like dependability vehicles to our Asian counterparts, the U.S. will always be a distance second.
Remember Orson Welles’ radio broadcast of “War of the Worlds”?
Even after the station announced that the program had been a work of fiction, people continued to call in insisting they’d seen martians land in New Jersey.
This time, with the sequel “Invasion of the Killer Toyotas”, the media and politicians are backing up the hoax all the way. And this time, unlike with the martians, there’s the prospect of real money to be made or at least a way off the hook for liability for serious accidents.
I would bet that there is some type of momentary disorientation that can occur with drivers that leads to a confusion as to which pedal to push. I suspect that driving instructors could relate thousands of stories where they had to over-ride the mistake of the learner.
That the choice of wrong pedal occurs when reversing is also suggestive of some type of disorientation or distraction.
One could envisage a lab experiment where individuals were subjected to various kinds of distractions while engaged in particular manoeuvres to determine the frequency of hesitation in the choice of and actual erroneous use of the accelerator pedal.
Age and inexperience may clearly be additional causal factors. As Matt notes, none of this excludes the possibility of systemic mechanical error per se.
The difference between this one and the Audi and Ford lynchings is that the federal government is the one measuring out the rope. Remember, Tranny Sec Ray LaHood has taken over the Toyota matter personally, yanking it from NTSB jurisdiction where it properly belongs and running the ‘investigation’ out of his own office (which has none of NTSB’s experts but lots of political appointees). Government Motors’ owners are doing everything they can to spike their principal (and non-UAW) competitor.
First off I have had stuck accelerator pedals on three different cars and they were made by 3 different makers. The cause was always the same. The floor mat got entangled with the pedal. The design of accelerator pedals changed in the 70′s. It used to be the pedal was hinged on the floorboard this design did not have a tendency to stick but it also led to higher rates of driver fatigue. The newer design which is hinged above the pedal cuts down on driver fatigue and has saved thousands of lives but occasionaly the floor mat or some other obstruction can cause a problem.
Another issue is the steering wheel lock. If there was no steering wheel lock simply turning off the ignition would be the safe way to deal with the problem. However the Steering Wheel lock is on all models and makes. Is this a mandatory feature? If it is this mandate should be removed.
The mechanical issues are straight forward and not unique to Toyota. The newer Hybrids and total electric cars use electronic voltage/current regulators (Motor Controllers) to control the cars speed. Computers control the actual speed and programs running on the computers may be responsible. It can be almost impossible to duplicate the conditions because not all inputs to the computers are recorded.
What I have seen so far is just limited to annectodal evidence and I see no systemic problems other than the accelerator design which saves thousands of lives annually.
If you are ever in a car that does accelerate do not panic. Brake, Shift to Nuetral, turn off the engine and quickly return the key to a position where the steering wheel is free to turn or try some other method to regain control. 99% of the time it will be the floor mat.
To say it is driver error; is the view of people with an IQ below 102. My car did it to me…see my post above…
#5 Thermo:
If the bottom edge of the gas pedal is too close to the floor board when depressed, an out-of-position floor mat with a high leading edge or that has become wrinkled can actually form a wall that prevents the pedal from returning to a neutral position. Since the floor mats are designed to grip the carpet and not slide, the end result is that the pedal becomes trapped in the depressed position. Simply sliding the floor mat back with your foot or lifting the pedal will allow it to get past the obstruction and return to the neutral (non-depressed) position.
I have four vehicles in my garage. One built by Ford, one by Toyota, a GMC, and a Honda. All engines shut down when I turn the key off to the intermediate position. The steering wheel does not lock until I turn the key all the way back to the removal position.
Rich313 — You should check out how the steering wheel lock actually works; on cars I have driven, and I suspect all cars, the steering wheel lock is not engaged by turning the key to the off position. The key needs to be taken out of the ignition for the lock to engage. Steering wheel locks are not mandatory, though they are a common way for a manufacturer to enable theft prevention. One manufacturer — Saab — for years had a gear shift lock that made it impossible to shift out of Park when the key was removed. There was no steering wheel lock.
And, as far as claims of brakes not working: it is a common claim, but is usually provably wrong. Because someone calls to say that the brakes aren’t working does not mean it is so (for example, Mr Sikes). It would be nice to know exactly what “bad brakes” being worked on actually means. Was a master cylinder bad? Or were the brake pads replaced, something that could be described as “bad brakes.”One is a real brake failure the other just periodic maintenance.
Tom Perkins,
I don’t know about Minisota’s vehicular homicide law, but I imagine it is similar to Wisconsin’s (my home state). I am not a lawyer, but here is my under standing of the Wisconsin Law. The vehicular homicide law in Wisconsin was written primarily, but not exclusively, to deal with drunk drivers who kill. Because of this, intent is not an element of the crime of vehicular homicide. Any neglegent use of a motor vehicle that results in a fatality constitues vehicular homicide.
Back a few years ago, the NHTSB investigated over 4,000 such accidents and found EVERY ONE OF THEM was driver error.
Jay I will give you a dollar, but that is more than your BS is worth
In the WSJ article this morning a woman who swore that she had deployed the brakes on her Prius with full force but still hit a brick wall, it was found that the brakes had never been deployed but the throttle was wide open at time of impact (black box data capture). At the very least the woman could have looked at the floor after the impact to see that her floor was on the wrong pedal. Or was that too difficult as well? As some posters here have already said, and I agree, that a huge percentage, if not all, of these are driver error or something simple like floor mat intrusion. If you’ll remember, as soon as Audi came out with the gear-selector interlock, it’s incidences of “unintended acceleration” ceased.
The bigger problem is that the vast majority of the American motoring public drives incompetently and is not prepared to deal with an “out of control” car – for whatever reason. And they certainly aren’t prepared to blame themselves. If you car mysteriously accelerates on the freeway what prevents you from turning off the ignition (To correct a couple of posters here, the steering lock does not engage until the key is removed from the ignition)? Or shifting into neutral?
I believe that the privilege of driving a car should be harder to obtain. In the UK new driving licenses are routinely denied for incompetence and that should be the rule here. Extreme situation car control should be taught to every aspiring driver as well. Somebody has to use all this new public transportation might as well be people that can’t drive.
Briggs — not being part of the black helicopter crowd I tend to agree with (Bohemond #13)’s assertion regarding government motors and the administration. There seems to be a bit too much hysteria this time around. I don’t know that it’s deliberate — never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
#15 Jay Getty
OK, we get it, you’re a genius. Good for you. Now, STFU and let the adults speak.
99.9% probability the “firedstopper:smokeythebearsweed” voted for: Obama. My post is factual American history.
I seem to remember “Audi” had the same sudden acceleration ‘problem’ back in the eighties. That problem was disproved. In any case someones foot on the brake pedal will overcome full engine force for forward momentum. Sudden acceleration for any reason should never be a problem.
G.L Alstoned another arrogant…with an adult IQ of <102.
5. Thermo:
What usually happens is at least once corner of the mat comes loose and is inadvertently drug forward [pivoted] out of position, coming to rest against the face of the pedal. Being heavy, and possibly even pushed or scrunched up by the other foot, it partially or fully depresses [WOT] the accelerator pedal and you have another cause for a law suit.
Matt, your analysis is spot on. Automotive engineers have fought the problem of sudden WOT [Wide Open Throttle] for at least six decades. All brands. All models. Imo there are two reasons Toyota is currently being targeted; one the political competitive issue you’ve mentioned re: Government Motors, and the other a reaction to their over-reaching corporate secretive nature. To explain: most qualified repair shops these days have hand-held computers to “read the codes” of a vehicle’s service faults, except for – you guessed it. So there exists today an underground resentment in the the aftermarket service industry against the company’s corporate anti-competition stance. A weakness was alleged, and lo and behold! A weakness now exists.
Further, imo, a strong class action case might be made against the entire corporate body that they failed to provide to their customers sufficient support services, ie: open repair/maintenance data to the independent service industry, such action being totally unnecessary and the proximate cause of a foreseeable drop in property value, reliability and marketability. Toyota is walking a tight-rope right now, praying it doesn’t get sued during the current news climate. Big bucks on the table.
The 4×4 I dearly loved, carefully customized to suit my needs, and kept running well for over 20 years, was destroyed by my wife when she whipped into the drive and rather than hitting the brake, hit the clutch. As a result, she continued on, straight into a 10 foot diameter oak. She hadn’t driven a straight drive for many a year, and she swore that she hit the brakes but that the pedal went all the way to the floor without slowing the vehicle a bit. When I demonstrated to her that the brakes worked even after hitting the tree, she got in the seat, pushed the pedals a few times and then admitted that she sure could have pushed the clutch rather than the brake. If, after bending the frame and knocking the engine off the mounts the brakes still worked, it’s pretty clear that not only “could” she have pushed the wrong pedal, she did push the wrong pedal.
She’s says it was a good learning experience, and now understands why I’ve been telling her for 25+ years to slow down before turning into the driveway rather than hitting the brakes hard after she turns. As she tells it, though, her most important lesson was that I didn’t divorce her for murdering my 4×4. While she says she believed I’d so something like that, I think it’s baloney. I’ve never been one to value mere property over people (I do admit that it was difficult to talk to her for several days after the funeral, though).
If my wife who actually drives very well can make a mistake like that, I’m positive that those more accustomed to chatting on the phone, digging around in their console, or otherwise occupying themselves as their vehicle drives itself down the highway can make the same sort of mistake even without a third pedal. Other than drivers who don’t bother pay attention half of the time, I doubt Toyota has any problem other than the Federal government wanting to destroy their reputation in hopes of helping GM sales. Now that “we” own GM, isn’t that the right thing for the government to do, look out for “our” auto company?
Regards
10. paul_unalaska,
Check this vehicle out:
Highwire Concept Car
So cool!
Jay Getty,
If you are going to call people names, at least be clever about it. Using the same insult twice in one thread does nothing to convince us that you of your intellectual pedigree.
One other thing, don’t mess with GL Alston. You’re way out of your league.
I have mixed up the brake & gas several times in my 41 years of driving. I am aware enough that I caught it right away each time, but it is easy to do.
The best way to stop this is to teach people with automatics to drive two footed, left foot brake, right foot gas. This simplifies things, makes it harder to screw it up, and you can get on the brakes quicker in an emergency.
One thing people miss in this is, the brakes will stop a car even if it is stuck at full throttle. The brakes are much stronger. A Prius needs 10 seconds to accelerate to 60 MPH, it only needs about 3 to stop from 60. In other words, the brakes are more that 3 times more powerful than the motor. If you were really pushing the brake pedal as hard as you could, the car would stop.
The other way to stop a runaway is to turn the key to off.
If you know much about cars, you know both of the above are true.
This is caused by a combination of idiot drivers, sensationalist press, greedy lawyers, and idiot jurists. All of which are in long supply in this country.
Anyone who is afraid to use their new Toyota can trade it for my old Buick. I’ll gladly take the “risk” to get a younger car.
And a political point for readers to ponder…
In my area, most Prius’ come with an Obama sticker on the rear, if not two. I wonder if this just Lefties assuming that their crash must be someone else’s fault. Given that it is a scientific fact that they have higher IQs than the rest of us, it couldn’t possibly be that they made a mistake.
Bernie@12,
none of this excludes the possibility of systemic mechanical error per se.
Systemic mechanical errors DO NOT occur across models whose parts are NOT interchangeable; ie, the hardware linkages are nothing alike and the s/w-firmware versions are model dependent.
Glitches do not just appear in s/w and it doesn’t wear out.
Systemic failures DO NOT occur randomly, nor to only a very few of each model.
rashputin:
Good one. You could devote an entire blog to such stories. I have a goodie, but I fear a divorce if I repeat it.
Just another one of the long, dreary list of fear-mongering about technology, science, the enviroment, you name it, that has dominated the last four decades. A genuine issue that is a modest, manageable problem is blown out of proportion for someone’s dishonest gain, whether it’s the media, politicians, unions, or activists.
The most egregious example of this phenomenon is the Global Warming hysteria.
31. Silvertree,
“Leftists as crash-test Dummies!” Why didn’t I think of that?
#34 Don Rodrigo — Just another one of the long, dreary list of fear-mongering about technology, science, the enviroment, you name it, that has dominated the last four decades.
But look at the positives! Without all of the whistle blowing, your post here complaining about their complaints wouldn’t be 99.999% recycled electrons.
(What do you want to bet that the imbeciles who believe that cell phones or power lines cause cancer couldn’t explain the inverse square law? Ay Carumba. The mind boggles.)
Paul_unalaska. I didn’t know you were able to use cruise control where you live. Because the only time I am able to use cruise control is when I rent a car in the lower 48. and it does take me a little time to figure it out.
It is a fact that cars can accelerate by themselves, not just because a car did it to me; (details see my earlier post #9)
While it is clear that people have mistakenly hit the gas instead of the brake it is also clear that people are in fact in cars that accelerate with no foot on the gas and in spite of a heavy foot on the brake.
From the bazaar hostility to my post noted above, it is clear that one or more auto manufacturer’s representatives are posting rubbish to the effect that: “only human error is at play”.
These cars can take off by themselves, and if I figured out at least one cause (to my own car) it is hard to believe the manufacturers can not figure it out.
I will put my $10,000 cash up against their million that I can reproduce the sudden unintended acceleration and re-engineer the car for electric gas pedal under normal driving conditions. Any time any place.
Jay Getty — A number of times you have referenced your comment #9 as if it is in some way detailed as to what happened to you and what you found and did to correct the problem. Maybe it is time for you to give some details: What make and model and year car, what problem you had, what you found when you went to your shop and what exactly you did to fix the problem.
Comment #9 has no details in it.
#38 Jay Getty — From the bazaar hostility to my post noted above, it is clear that one or more auto manufacturer’s representatives are posting rubbish to the effect that: “only human error is at play”.
Good catch! Big Oil only pays so much for climate change denial, so you have to pick up extra cash somewhere. So, you’re not paranoid. Nope.
Jay Getty said
100:1 in your favor…
It seems your estimation of your skills are not too different from everyone else’s.
If the accelerator “gets stuck” – take foot awat from accelerator; put gears into neutral; brake to a halt/near halt; switch off engine.
The fact that most people do not do this in these alleged runaway acceleration incidents, cast some light on how they occur in the first place… driver incompetence.
Yes, Toyota is receiving a bum deal. Of course, the US government is doing all it can to protect Government Motors and the Commissar Corporation from the horrors of actually having to compete with Toyota. What’s one more sleazy act to this Congress and the Obambi Administration?
Yes, if you want my definitive findings on “runaway cars” you will pay for it; I will put up $10,000 cash, against a million, says I can show you a defect in the car (model) I was driving and re-engineer the car to electric gas pedal in normal driving…
Climate has been changing constantly for millions of years, your bad breath(CO2) is a relative non-issue. Cap and trade scam is a variation of the indulgences scam last seen in the Crusades.
I stand by my comments that only if your IQ is below 102, could you conclude cars can not (have not) accelerate on there own.
By 1984 I built a still and converted my car to 160 proof ethanol (no gasoline except just before turning off the ignition and starting the ignition) Plastic fuel tank off 1979 Dodge van, steel braded fuel line, electric fuel pump, stock methanol carburetor with changeable jets… Made in the USA Cellulose ethanol can create full employment in the USA, balance the trade deficit, stop funding for the war against ourselves every day at the gas pump, lower pollution; but no…you prefer the “nice long lasting war and sell lots of weapons” c 1991 Getty (informed every member of Congress and have copyright on “Long lasting War” 1991 C Getty)
We could easily convert every car in the USA to ethanol in 24 +/_ months. (Brazil does!/ Did!)
If Jay Getty wasn’t just scamming he would be in front of Toyota execs and Congress making millions instead of just [posting on PJM.
geoffgo #6:
There is a simple, non-supernatural explanation:
Gremlins!
“Yum Yum!”
Gremlins!
I had a girlfriend with a Gremlin. Really under-appreciated little car.
It’s clearly a genuine war from Obama/UAW/the new communist party.
Toyota has the temerity to make better cars than GM, sell more, and not pay UAW extortionate labor rates. Toyota succeeds where Government Motors failed abysmally.
Now the New Communist Party “workers of the world, unite” is simply out to destroy their competitors, Toyota being the biggest but only the first victim.
Phranc ly… I have been to Congress with the technology, they are only interested in Americans financing the terrorist every day at the gas pumps… and a nice “long lasting war and sell lots of weapons” C 1991 Getty
About twenty years ago some or another department of the State of California sent out letters to every parent of any child attending a particular pre-school to ask them if their children showed any signs of molestation. That was the end of life as they knew it for the McMartin family.
It is impossible for Toyota to say that drivers, particularly drivers of Toyota, are suggestible, gullible, or stupid, so they must suffer quietly until this plays out.
I don’t think this is going to happen to Obama Motors.
Actually a friend of mine’s car, a 1974 Mustang II, did run away on him and we were able to duplicate what occurred and determine why. The throttle pushrod at the carb had the ability to go over center and lock. He turned off the ignition and the engine stopped but that also locked up the steering. He was afraid to turn the ignition back on for fear that the starter would engage and to make things worse, this occurred along a section of I-40 that is below ground level and so there was a wall approaching. He got stopped just in time.
Also back around 1977 I recall an amateur radio operator describe how he was driving with the cruise control on, keyed up the mike on his 2 Meter VHF radio and had the car rapidly accelerate as a result.
I would also guess that many of the cases involve driver error, but I also will admit that I fear acceleration which can be controlled by a computer in the car somewhere, as opposed to a simple mechanical approach. Yeah, I know, I should probably go back to a horse and buggy, but maybe someone here can describe how computerized or electronically controlled elements were introduced over time into our acceleration/fuel flow.
Edmunds.com has publicized that they’re going to offer $1 million to anyone who can solve “unintended acceleration”. For those who think they know, here’s your chance.
Where these cases haven’t occurred uniformly over age groups, or driver height, or car activity (parking, un-parking, exiting a freeway), or driver experience, it seems more and more that it’s a human factor. There may be a technological issue, but it’s a difficult situation to ask a manufacturer to fix a problem that no one can find, or prove exists.
What I have seen so far is just limited to annectodal evidence and I see no systemic problems other than the accelerator design which saves thousands of lives annually.
It should read Sudden Acceleration or Scapegoat. Just another reason for the victims to score an easy pay day. We, the white middle class male with three jobs supporting the country, are getting tired…very tired.