Stunner: Turkey Infiltrating Native American Tribes — and May Get Congressional Help
Recently, Native American Congressman Tom Cole (R-OK, member of the Chickasaw Nation) introduced H.R. 2362, the Indian Trade and Investment Demonstration Project. The bill singles out Turkish-owned companies for exclusive investment preferences and special rights in Native American tribal area projects.
Congressman Cole freely admitted the following on the House floor:
There’s no question that I was approached by the Turkish American Coalition (properly the Turkish Coalition of America), who have a deep interest in Turkey and American Indians.
“Deep interest” indeed. The bill was the culmination of a multi-year effort by Turkey to ingratiate itself with Native American tribes: tribal students now study in Turkey with full scholarships; Turkish officials regularly appear at Native American economic summits; and dozens of tribal leaders have gone to Turkey on lavish all-expense-paid trips.
Why the intense interest in business and cultural ties with Native American tribes now, when Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his Islamist Justice and Development party (AKP) have taken Turkey down a path of aggressive and dangerous Islamism?
Evidence from Uzbekistan points to a possible motive: infiltration and Islamization. The government of Uzbekistan is claiming that private Turkish business interests in the Central Asian country have been acting as a front for banned Islamist extremists. According to Agence France-Presse:
[The Uzbek government has accused] Turkish companies of creating a shadow economy, using double accounting and propagating nationalistic and extremist ideology. … Long wary of the influence of Islamic fundamentalism … secular authorities appear to be linking Turkish private business to the activities of the Nurcus, an Islamic group that is banned in the country.
Nurcus is also banned in Russia.
Is it in America’s national security interests to have Turkish contractors and their families flooding into America’s heartland and settling in semi-autonomous zones out of the reach of American authorities? Especially if their intent is to form intimate business and social ties with a long-aggrieved minority group?
H.R. 2362 was narrowly defeated on July 23, when a “suspension of the rules” vote (usually reserved for non-controversial votes with limited debate) failed to attain the required two-thirds majority. But troublingly, 220 representatives voted in favor — representing both parties and all ideological strains — with 160 opposed and 49 abstaining.
The bill could come up for a vote again at any time.
In the original version of H.R. 2362, the stated purpose was:
[To] encourage increased levels of commerce and economic investment [with Native American tribes] by private entities incorporated in or emanating from the Republic of Turkey.
It allowed for select Native American tribes to lease land held in trust by the United States:
… [for] a project or activity … in furtherance of a commercial partnership involving one or more private entities incorporated in or emanating from the Republic of Turkey.
When the bill came up for a vote, its backers were forced to offer an amended version. The phrase “or other World Trade Organization (WTO) member nations” was placed after “Republic of Turkey” in the passages above. The amended version still maintains:
[Congress] finds that the public and private sectors in the Republic of Turkey have demonstrated a unique interest in bolstering cultural, political, and economic relationships with Indian tribes and tribal members.
Also: removing “barriers” and encouraging a “more robust relationship” between “Turkish and Indian tribal communities” is “in the interest” of “the United States-Turkey relationship.” The “interest” is not defined.
The bill, in both its forms, severely limits federal oversight of the investment projects, and does not even require the Department of the Interior to approve the leases. The term of the leases could stretch 75 years, effectively tying the hands of future administrations: presidents would come and go, but Turkey would have a semi-permanent foothold in America’s heartland.
The amended version of H.R. 2362 continues to single out Turkey for special treatment, and if passed would serve as an official U.S. government endorsement of Ankara.
In the past, special considerations by the U.S. for Turkey were well-deserved. Hill staffers grew accustomed to doing favors for a secular, pro-Western Ankara that was a key strategic ally to Washington and its allies in the region. But all that changed with the ascension of Erdogan’s AKP party in 2002. A small sampling of recent events:
- Turkey refused to allow U.S. troops to reach Iraq via Turkish territory in 2003.
- Turkey refused to back UN sanctions on Iran, meant to halt its nuclear weapons program.
- Prime Minister Erdogan has said “Iran is our friend,” and “I do not think that Hamas is a terrorist organization.”
- Erdogan invited the Iranian-backed Iraqi Shiite warload Muqtada al-Sadr to Turkey for “political discussions.” Sadr, whose militia is believed to be responsible for the deaths of countless American soldiers in Iraq, stopped in Iran on his way to Turkey.
- The Turkish government supported a flotilla of ships that violently attempted to break Israel’s blockade of Gaza, ruled by the terrorist group Hamas. Israel’s blockade was declared legal by the United Nations.
- Erdogan halted trade with Israel and threatened to invade Cyprus after an American-based company partnered with Israel to begin gas exploration in Cypriot territorial waters, which is adjacent to Israeli gas fields. Turkey then initiated military exercises aimed at threatening both Israel and Cyprus.
- Erdogan defended Sudanese President Bashir, who faced worldwide condemnation for the genocide in Darfur. Erdogan’s rationale: “A Muslim can never commit genocide. It’s not possible.”
- According to Middle East expert Barry Rubin, the “AKP has repressed opposition in Turkey, arrested hundreds of critics, bought up 40 percent of the media, and installed its people in the bureaucracy.” Very recently, 326 military officers were convicted of conspiracy to overthrow Erdogan’s Islamist government.
Perhaps most troubling — even if other WTO member nations have the same rights in the amended version of H.R. 2362 — Turkey is poised to infiltrate Native American tribal areas immediately upon passage due to the Islamist country’s intense cultivation of ties with Native American tribes through the Turkish Coalition of America. John Berrey, chairman of the Quapaw Tribe (Oklahoma), claims:
The Turkish and Native American peoples are beginning to come together under their own momentum to develop broader and deeper economic and cultural ties.
But the “momentum” is coming from only one direction: Turkey, through the TCA. Indeed, according to the Indian Country Today Media Network:
- In November 2010, the TCA organized and led the first Native American Business Cooperation Trip to Turkey, attracting 20 leaders from 17 Native American tribes. The tribal leaders met with Turkish high officials, including Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu. “The meeting in Turkey marked the tribal leaders’ first significant overseas trade meeting,” reported the Associated Press.
- In March 2011, the TCA engineered the appearance of the Turkish deputy minister for foreign trade at the Reservation Economic Summit (RES) and American Indian Business Trade Fair in Las Vegas. The Turkish minister was the “first foreign government official to ever deliver remarks” in the event’s history.
- In February 2012, the Turkish deputy economy minister and the Turkish ambassador to Washington joined the TCA at the RES.
- Since 2008, the TCA has offered scholarships to Native American students interested in studying abroad in Turkey. The TCA also co-sponsored two Native American conferences at a Turkish university.
The TCA, whose vice president allegedly lives in Istanbul, stated in a press release that H.R. 2362 is “the first time the Turkish American community took the initiative to create positive change through substantive legislation in Congress.”
But the TCA has already invested millions in cultivating ties with Native American tribes. According to its 2010 IRS Form 990, the TCA incurred $1,037,496 of “expenses” for “sponsorship of educational travel for congressional members and staff as well as Native American leaders.” And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
As Congressman Howard Berman (D-CA) said on the House floor, H.R. 2362, even as amended, is “an unusual, unprecedented, and unnecessary endorsement of a state that, though an ally, continues to pursue problematic policies.”
The next time this bill comes up for a vote — or any other bill that gives Turkey special investment considerations — Congress should be aware that Ankara is no longer the pro-Western state of yesterday. And Congress should be alert to possible nefarious motives of the Islamists cementing their power in Turkey.





Been happening in Canada’s First Nation territories for years.
Native towns with Muslim councilmen.
Let us not forget the Black Muslim/Power movement-
another seperatist grievance faction funded by Islamic and Soviet organizers.
I expose Islamic Infiltration/Penetration six ways to Sunday at my blog. It is becoming akin to beating a dead horse. Nevertheless,I have no intention of ceasing and desisting. It is THAT important!
This is just a foretaste – http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/07/25/the-muslim-mafia-aka-the-brotherhood-their-overarching-plan-what-it-means-for-americas-future-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki/
Pass it forward!
There is a clash of civilizations, and the Muslim Mafia is beating us. Yes, they are.
Help spread this story, it is a problem for Obama and his pals.
As Obama’s cover story comes down, the curtain goes up on the USAO’s cover-up of J.J., Jr.’s role in the Blago story
http://illinoispaytoplay.com/2012/10/05/as-obamas-cover-story-comes-down-the-curtain-goes-up-on-the-usaos-cover-up-of-j-j-jr-s-role-in-the-blago-story/
A Wolf war band sachem explained this movement and casinos to me.
The suicide rate of young males in some tribes had reached up to 24%.
A Grand pow-wow was called.
The elders discussed the problem.
Their solution: Natives will take their Land back.
This time the war will be fought with lawyers and money.
They began by snookering the Mafia out of seed money.
Casino boards, once staffed by Sicilians, are now all Red faces.
The War is well underway- and the suicide rate is now less than 1%.
My gut feeling about this is that it may violate treaty. Now, I realize that might be a payback for all the broken treaties of history, but those treaties were internal between the tribes and the U.S. That was long ago, and the tribes, while sovereign, are still subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.
Tribal interaction with countries and coalitions whose friendliness to the U.S. is questionable at best could be construed as an attempt to subvert the U.S. government from within.
I generally support anything the tribes do, but this goes too far. I can’t see how this could fly short of a treaty negotiated between the tribes, the US, and Turkey, and ratified by two-thirds of the Senate.
I’m not supportive of it, it was our first pc gerrymandering multiculturalism drive.
its time they are either americans or not.
enough.
Get real! Your not even a real American!
Iran has started to play footsie with the Indians in Manitoba.
“Today’s National Post front page carries a story about the “exploratory mission” to Iran being organized by Terrance Nelson, former chief of Manitoba’s Roseau River First Nation, and a small delegation of like-minded Canadian aboriginal activists. Nelson believes that Iran’s dictatorship can be a helpful partner in addressing Canadian “human rights abuses” — because the Ayatollahs “have always promoted the human rights issues of indigenous peoples in this country.
… It’s a sick joke. And it’s not even the first time it’s been told: The spectacle of militant Canadian natives traipsing off for photo-ops with one of the most reviled, human-rights-abusing regimes on earth played out in exactly the same way 25 years ago.
In August, 1987, in advance of a visit by then- External Affairs Minister Joe Clark, South Africa’s white supremacist government flew in four Canadian Indian leaders for a Pretoria news conference and a lavish, all-expenses paid “fact-finding tour” aimed at discrediting Canada’s sanctions regime. Among the stooges who’d been brought to South Africa for the propaganda event was Gerald Wuttunee — described by the South Africans, somewhat hilariously, as a “Red Indian Chief” from “Sescatchewan.” (The Canadian delegation, Toronto Star correspondent Peter Goodspeed reported at the time, also included several non-Indian members — including one Eileen Presseler, who was then president of something called the British Columbia Free Speech League. In Pretoria, she declared that Canada “was into a period of censorship, book banning, political show trials, that kind of thing, thought crimes.”)
See this link if it gets by the PJMEDIA spam filter. for the full article.
In Canada’s case we just closed our embassy in Tehran and expelled all the Iranian diplomats in Canada. I guess the cultivating of stooges is Iran’s retalitation.
I read some time ago about a mooslime miltia camp somewhere around Talihina, but for this crap to be happening in the most conservative state in the nation, sponsored by a republican is wrong on too many levels to contemplate.
When will we declare that islime is a political enemy and cult, rather than a religion?
“Recently, Native American Congressman Tom Colez”
Native American? I just looked a a picture of him and he looks less “native American” than I do. What is he about 1/16 “Native American”? BTW, I lived on an Indian (Yes, Indian!) Reservation as a kid and I never heard one American Indian refer to himself as a “Native American”. It was either Indian or by tribe.
Same here.
Same here.
” have taken Turkey down a path of aggressive and dangerous Islamism?”
“Islamism”? What the hell is that!!!??? It’s Islam. I S L A M.
Islamism means the politics and advocacy of Islam on the global scale, pushing and pimping Islam into non-Muslim countries with too many stupid, clueless future dhimmis.
“These descriptions (like the stupid word “Islamism”) are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam ["Islamism" or radical or non-radical Islam]. Islam is Islam and that’s it.” (Turkey PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan)
And if we’re smart, we’ll take him at his word.
I’m sorry but as far as I am concerned anyone who seriously uses the word “Islamism” or “Islamist” is a screwball.
If the Indians are getting in bed with the mooslims, I reckon its time to play cowboys and indians again
Nahhh… That would be raaaaaaacist. I have no problem with “Cowboys and Muslims.”
Your welcome to try pilgrim..
The author of this piece seriously needs to educate themselves on Turkey. This is nothing but out and out ‘Islarmism’. Whatever Erdogan is up to with these American tribes, has nothing to do with Jihad and everything to do with ‘bling’.
Balls.
Jihad has always been about the bling.
Don’t forget — the one doesn’t exclude the other. In fact, they’ve been very closely related, as it were kissin’ cousins, for 14 centuries. It’s always been “Bling” for sand and “Sand” for bling, and heads rolled if the right sand, or the right bling, weren’t “joining up” fast enough. Ask the real Indians (from India) 8 centuries ago. Ask Spaniards 13 centuries ago. Ask the Viennese of 3 and 1/2 centuries ago! Bling! Bling! Bling!
Ask Germany’s Chancellorette, Angela Merkel, when Tayyap Erdogin upstaged her on a state visit by renting the Cologne Arena (20,000 seats, all filled) to preach to a full house of frenetically applauding Turkish immigrants that assimilation was a crime, that Turks might live in Germany, but should never assimilate. IOW, basically they were expected to remain Turks. (Also, to vote for him!) Ask a Millennium’s worth of African slaves. Ask anybody, including Armenians, also Christian priests more recently murdered in Turkey.
It’s utterly nuts to let their little bit of front-money “bling”, and believe me, to them even millions are chump change, and their NATO status, blind you to their true nature. The establishment of a world-caliphate, and the power struggle about who gets to head it up – IOW global Pan-Islamism and who gets first honors and first dibs – is not just a matter for the µSlim Botherhood, or Achmydinnerjihad, or Kamenei, or Mousi, or AssSad, or that funny flying Afghan and his new Taliban “friends”, or, or… Get it straight: they are here to take over, they mean business, and business to them means “bling” or the blade, whichever comes first or proves most efficient.
“Islamism”, the movement to proselytize iSlam and advance its dominance, is real. And, it’s NOT a new Apple product. “Wild Kitty’s” opinion not withstanding. And, if Erdrogin feels insulted, TS for him. I feel insulted if he insists that all this is for the benefit of global friendhip and free trade among peoples and nations, all to advance the cause of a blissfully happy human future, and that he seeks to gain nothing from it. BS! Stop insulting my intelligence! So we trade insults. So be it. But, keep him out. That is key!
Don’t the Native Americans realize what the Turks have done to all the indigenous peoples of Asia Minor? They have been wiped out, forced to leave their lands, forced to live on the poorest lands or live in ghettos.
Where are the Greeks? The Armenians? The Assyrians? The Kurds?
If Indians are truly allowing the infiltration of their tribes by Muslims to occur, this would be a far more egregious assault on their people than what white people did. I’m quite shocked at this. The gains will be few and the losses will be immeasurable.
Indeed, this is colossally stupid. At least we admit treaty-breaking is wrong, but the Muslims don’t believe treaties with infidels are binding on them. It’s understandable that some of the natives hold a grudge against the United States, and they think that siding with our enemies is appropriate, but this is monumentally foolish and can only end in calamity for them. The Muslims will worm their way in and then give the tribes the ultimatum, “Convert or die.” Besides this, nobody wants a repeat of the Indian Wars, but that is exactly what will happen if they start harboring Muslim subversives. Alternatively, the tribes may turn to the US government to rescue them from Islamic subjugation when they find themselves in over their heads. Maybe that will allow us to finally reconcile.
Talk about a myth..
All the people who recommend dealing with Muslims, suggesting Muslims are moderate, etc. are lulling us over a cliff. Sure there are Muslims who don’t take their Islam as seriously as al Qaida, but that doesn’t matter. The intention of Muslims is to live separately from us, their religion tells them to hold non-Muslims in contempt. What better thing to do, from the Islamic perspective, than to establish toeholds in autonomous regions where they can proselytize and wage Jihad unhindered?
Maybe what we should do is this:
[To] encourage increased levels of commerce and economic investment [with Turkish Kurds] by private entities incorporated in or emanating from the United States
of America.
Wouldn’t the Turks love that. My guess is if we tried that, the Turks would
cry foul. Not to worry, we’re too chicken to do it.
There is also this to consider.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3383/fethullah-gulen
“The Gulen school system in America – 120 establishments in 2012, according to The New York Times – has been questioned for its odd characteristics. These include recruiting American students of non-Turkish descent to learn Turkish – hardly a likely first choice for American learners of a second language – and participating in competitions for the mastery of Turkish culture.”
It’s our own fault. We’ve let our own culture “go to seed”, by heaping a century’s worth of “progressive” manure on it. We got our signals crossed. We’ve been “nice” where we should have been “tough”, and tough where we could have been nice. Worst, we were never consistently “straight”, and intransigent about it. We never understood our own real worth, taking it for granted. But, it’s not too late. “El Zopilote”, #15 above, has a good idea. Let’s give special consideration to dealing with Iraqui and Turkish Kurds. The Kurds will be good friends and allies. And, the Turks deserve a good “kick” after their most recent double-crosses. Will Romney have the “cajones” for this? Anyone’s guess. First, he has to win. Let’s make that happen first!
funny how newly discovered archaelogical finds in florida and washington are just ignored by those groups cashing in (on the dole) on being special. as it turns out the so called ‘native’ Americans aren’t actually the real natives they claim. dna from bodies recovered in titusville, fla. and kennewich, washington (coast to coast) show that europeans were here thousands of years before these ‘native’ Americans. treaties made long ago have apparently been allowing these ‘native’ Americans to bury european bodies, out of sight before anyone could see what was going on. the tribes fought scientists in fed court (and lost, kennewick man) to grab caucasian mummies/bodies. these findings (digs) took place decades ago, and yet i’ll bet not one in a thousand Americans have ever heard about them. they successfully muffled the find in fla. for 16 years. btw, the cemetery in fla. had almost 200 bodies (what was uncovered), and they had been putting people in them for 1800 years. brain matter was still in the fla. mummies. they buried them in perfectly neutral Ph water. how did they know? hmmm?
even old stories told by some indian tribes tell of killing the ‘white devils’ that were here when they arrived.
so, just who are the native Americans?
Interesting… Can you please source that?
This is where I first encountered the claims. It’s been a few years.
I looked around. The bones of the 9k y/o Kennewick man found in Washington were originally labeled European, but a subsequent study claimed they were Polynesian. The first DNA tests at the 8k y/o Windover burial in Titusvile FL indicated European origins, but a later analysis didn’t show that. I saw some people were arguing on blogs about whether the original test was contaminated or if a subsequent tests was some kind of academic cover up. There are also claims that the Windover people wore intricately woven textiles likely created by a loom, but I didn’t follow that one up. I spent way too much time on this…
In the end, I think the most reasonable conclusion to reach from archaeological remains like the Kennewick Man is that there are very few places anywhere in the world where we can identify the “original” or ‘native” inhabitants. (The only places where that might be possible are the islands of Polynesia, but even there there are hints that some groups of Polynesians arrived at many islands later and killed off earlier groups of Polynesians.) But this conclusion is not at all the same as eagerly pouncing upon rumors that one’s own ethnic group (Europeans) were present in an area earlier than another ethnic group (Native Americans).
The only people who deserve to live anywhere are current inhabitants who peacefully bought or inherited land.
I think it’s particularly depressing that somehow this article provoked mentions of the Kennewick Man and the supposed European connection. Come on. Does anyone want to see Native American tribes converting to Islam? How will bringing up Kennewick Man help keep this from happening?
You Japhetic(Caucasian)including Turks are pathetic. You want to claim everything in history revolves around your lineage. You are a parasitic people, always trying to take over Indegenous cultures and heritage. You can’t even except God’s Word when he states man’s lineage. Read the Bible KJV Genesis 10 table of Nations: Japheth is(white Caucasian). Shem(Red/Yellow Oriental). Ham is (Black). These Turks want to identify with Native American because they think we originated from them. Lol. They come from Magog their patriarch. They polluted the Shemitic Mongolians by amalgamation leaving a bunch of mixed up muslim half-breeds. It’s time you Americans draw a red line with your constitution and stop the muslim enemy from infiltration. The whole middle east is a smorgasbord of the three races hence the title(Cradle of Civilization). That is their goal!
i have a problem with groups of people trying to hide scientific evidence so they can retain their ‘special’ status, like not paying taxes like the rest of us, free casinos, etc. claiming the country belongs to them when they were nothing but trespassers themselves?
references? the windover bog people (fla.) originally had their brain matter sampled for d.n.a. looks like some special handout groups are trying to spin it, again. u-tube has many good videos on the subject.
i’ve also heard stories about the furor caused out west by the kennewick man. not hard to find videos on that either. a forensic scientist called to investigate on site immediately confirmed his skull characteristics. 101 stuff for guys like that. indians tried to grab him and hide the evidence. later attempted spin? nuttinu there. fyi, caucasians have also showed up in china, thousands of years old. wtf did they come from? chinese sensitive about that too. scientist accidentally found them as well, in boxes stuffed away in a storage area somewhere. p.c. science is no science at all.
being part indian, i have always admired the culture. if these scummy things i am reading about those claiming to represent indians now are true, they are not honoring their ancestors at all. joining unAmerican groups to try to get more handouts? yeah, real classy.
Wont work punk! Nobody cares about your opinion..
Turkey has been and is a loyal NATO ally-for 50 years.
Turkish troops fought side by side with American troops in Korea-they now support our troops in AfPak.
Turkey has the 2nd largest military in NATO-
General Petraeus continues to praise our close alliance with the Turkish military
Hasbara hacks are desperately trying to de-legitimize
It is not working with the American military and intelligence community
Big fail by hasbara-find another target or lose -big time
Enough is enough
Turkey stabbed the USA in the heart in the Iraq war and proved herself no ally. The 4th ID was denied transit for the Iraq invasion – which made our herculean effort to depose Saddam just that much harder. Americans died because your Turkey betrayed the USA. Turkey served a bit part in the cold war as a secular sometimes ally against the Soviets. Today they’re just another Muslim sewer spreading Jihad and making the world into an increasingly Muslim hellhole…
Muslim Turkey and David “The Holy Qur’an” Petraeus can go to hell and take their filthy koran with them.
That’s what I say. In fact that’s what I did say.
“Victor” is a well-known Turkish national and agent of Turkish islamists.
According to General Petraeus Turkey was eager to allow the USA to invade Iraq from Turkish territory.
The ask for NATO to commit to defend Turkey when Iraq retaliated and invaded Turkey in response-
Bush supported this claim by Turkey-he also wanted NATO to support the war.
Germany vetoed any NATO support of Turkey as did France
Turkey therefore talked with Bush and the US Military and they agreed that the attack on Iraq would not take place through Turkey.
That is the reality
hasbara hacks have been desperately lying about this agreement by Turkey and the US re the invasion of Iraq.
No one of any importance in the US takes hasbara seriously -it is like DEBKA file
-foreign propaganda against US fundamental interests-zero credibility and hostile to American fundamental interests and values
The Turks are no more to be trusted now than when they brutally murdered millions of Christian Armenians. Ataturk was the only good thing about Turkey and he is now long gone. Turkey shouldn’t even be a member of NATO. Turkey should just formally join the Organization of Islamic States if they haven’t done so already.
Victor is a well-known Turkish national and agent of Turkish islamists.
That’s good to know. I thought he was an escaped mental patient.
You know, this is ironic because the situation of Armenians is very analogous to that of Native Americans.
1) Both groups are now relegated to hinterland highland areas, while the invading ethnic group took all the good land.
2) The 3 million Armenians are just as small in number against the almost 100 million Turks/Azeris as the 2% of the North American population that is Native American.
3) It is very clear that Turks inflicted a genocide on Armenians. (Raphael Lemkin, the guy who wrote the UN’s Genocide Convention and who created the very word “genocide” explicitly mentioned the Armenian Genocide as an example; thus, this isn’t a debatable point.) Honestly, what European-Americans did to Native Americans was a genocide too. Both the Armenian & Native American genocide involved forced marches in which large numbers died. Both involved large numbers dying from conditions knowingly created by the invading ethnic group. European-Americans sent Native Americans to boarding school to make them lose their languages and make sure they became Christian; Turks made Armenians into Janissaries, second-class citizens, or used indirect force through second-class citizenship to force Islamization. Perhaps European-Americans were significantly less culpable because they couldn’t help Native American’s susceptibility to disease (for the most part, ignoring some examples of deliberate infection). Even if European-Americans had come entirely peacefully just to trade, perhaps most Native Americans would eventually have died because of disease anyway.
There is one major difference: Modern Turks from Turkey are genetically mostly European, being descendants of Greeks, Armenians, Galatians, Phrygians, Hittites, Laz, Hurrians, etc. It seems though most “Native Americans” in the United States, though, have intermarried to a much larger extent with the invading population, and the majority of the population of the Americas is European-American. Because of Native Americans’ susceptibility to disease, the whole population genetics story turned out very differently.
What Native Americans should do is sympathize with the minorities in Turkey who are in a situation analogous to theirs – Mountain minorities about to lose their language. Perhaps the most prominent and noteworthy example are the Laz & other groups that still speak Caucasian languages, but there are still Assyrians, Greeks & Armenians in Turkey itself. And then, of course, you have the Kurds. Also, the form of Islam that would be most amenable to keeping Native Americans’ pagan traditions is Sufism, specifically like Alevi, but you won’t find the modern Turkish government advocating that.
No the Americans did not commit genocide against the Indians. Even marxist historians like Howard Zinn is on record, when challenged, agreeing that 90% died of disease. If you would like to confirm this listen to the interview conducted by Dennis Prager with Howard Zinn – available on Prager’s website.
Normally a serious person doesn’t quote marxist zealots like Zinn, but this particular datapoint – which he was forced to admit when pressed on the air by an interviewer who knew the genuine data – is quite telling.
As a friend of mine who is a member of the North Carolina Lumbee tribe (a non-warrior, commercially oriented tribe) repeatedly points out: “Many Indian tribes were absolute savages. They’d been butchering other Indians and each other for years before the Europeans arrived.”
Acknowledging that 90% were killed by disease is not the same thing as asserting that what European-Americans did to Native-Americans was not a genocide. You can acknowledge the first, and still characterize what happened as a genocide. Please tell me – In what ways did European-Americans treat Native Americans better than the Turks treated Armenians/Assyrians/Greeks (all three had a genocide committed against them at the same time)? Honestly, I can’t think of any. Just because a larger percentage died from disease due to the randomness of what I will for lack of a better term called the Guns, Germs & Steel effect (after Jared DIamond’s book) does not absolve European-Americans from responsibility for having treated Native Americans in a genocidal manner.
“Died of disease”. Yes, and you can thank the British for deliberately handing out blankets contaminated with the smallpox virus for that.
As for your naive assertion that the indigenous population was not the target of extermination policies, genocide in more polite terms, I suggest you read “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee”. It’s an oldie, but a goodie, and tells the story from the native perspective.
@elephant4life
You weren’t addressing that to me, right? You were addressing that to EccoLa? Because I was the one characterizing how Native Americans have been treated as genocide. That being said, you should acknowledge that even if Europeans had not done things like given smallpox-laden blankets and instead Europeans had approached Native Americans with complete respect as equals and not stolen their land, in all likelihood the overall effect of disease on Native Americans would tragically have been pretty much the same – Maybe around 90% would have died. So, while European-Americans committed genocidal acts, in the end Native Americans in fact and in the best of all reasonably conceivable worlds were and would have been done in mostly by disease.
Eccola you need your ass kicked, pure and simple!
Quote
” Anonymous
Muslim Turkey and David “The Holy Qur’an” Petraeus can go to hell and take their filthy koran with them.”
You might want to review your drunken brain fart- before the jdam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Direct_Attack_Munition
rams up your anus by the USMC
For Gary Rosen and you – you’ve got to ask yourself one question:
Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
…you obviously do… Thanks for showing your (true) colors. Maybe Gary Rosen and Anonymous made the right point(s)? … No need to call you names, is there?
You need to check yourself into a juvenile psychiatric facility – STAT. Either that or your mom does.
1. You grow poppies and refine heroin for a living, but you have a moral objection to liquor.
You may be a Muslim
2. You own a $3,000 machine gun and $5,000 rocket launcher and ammo, but you can’t afford shoes. You may be a Muslim
3. You have more wives than teeth.
You may be a Muslim
4. You wipe your butt with your bare hand, but consider bacon and pork unclean.
You may be a Muslim
5. You think vests come in two styles: bullet-proof and suicide.
You may be a Muslim
6. You can’t think of anyone you haven’t declared Jihad against.
You may be a Muslim
7. You consider television dangerous, but routinely carry explosives in your clothing.
You may be a Muslim
8. You were amazed to discover that cell phones have uses other than setting off roadside bombs.
You may be a Muslim
9. You have nothing against women and think every man should own at least four.
You may be a Muslim
10. Your cousin is president of the United States .
You may be a Muslim
11. You find this offensive or racist and won’t forward it.
You may be a Muslim
now thats funny!
heres your sign.
Blacks have been infiltrating the tribes as well. Where’s the outrage over that?
Its time we grouped all the members of the OIC (Organistaion of the Islamic Conference) the same way we grouped the Fascist/Axis nations before and during WW2 and the Communist nations during the Cold War. We were able to pass and enforce “Trading with the Enemy” Acts and other laws to protect ourselves. We can do the same or similar today if we want to protect our civilisation. We do not have to allow the Islamic nations to send money here to build mosques. We do not have to let them do here what we are not allowed to do in their countries. We can protect ourselves. We can allow Islam as a religion without allowing Islamic countries to rum amok in our own back yards. In the Cold War we allowed Marxism/Socialism/Communism as political parties without allowing Communist nations to run amok here. The public knows the difference between a religion and a political program. The politicians can get real if they love freedom.
I agree. We don’t even have to single out Islam. Just prohibit activism and investments in our media, education and tax exempt organizations from foreign nationals and nations that don’t allow the same in their countries from identical type organizations here. It’s a simple principle that’s consistent with liberty.
I am for the disbanding of tribal lands and removing native tribes from their dependency on the the U.S. taxpayer. It is long past time for them to assimilate into modern society.
Long, long, long past due.
Suck it fat boy!
If the tribes want to associate with a bunch of slavers, they should go ahead.
We should also probably get the Armenian and Kurd view on this.
Iran with Chavez’ help put Hezbollah into the peninsula west of Lake Maracaibo bordering Colombia among indigenous tribes. That was 2005 or before. They started as they do in the Muslim countries by first doing credible work in community organizing, health and welfare projects.
When they had trust of the local tribes they began working cross-border with the FARC narco-guerillas.
Next they established a corridor through Central America up to our border with Mexico, working hand-in-glove with the cartels.
The Saudi institute has been in our prisons for decades, but now Hezbollah is in the U.S. and has been for serveral years. Now this traitor of a congressman is facilitating them with govt-dependant Indians here. Did Acorn have them too?
We’re toast, and the traitors in our govt and in all levels of elective office multiply like rats.
I hold our Native Americans in high esteem and I’m greatly shocked at Native American leaders’ betrayal of their people, America, the Free World, AND Native American children.
We must prevent the terrible agony, kidnappings and enormous suffering of non-Muslims in our countries that take place in Muslim countries! COMING TO A CITY NEAR YOU SOON.
The Passion of the Copts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FHvQXfGUBCs
Comment by Egyptian Christian Copt underneath video:
“OUR WOMEN ARE TO BE ENSLAVED IN ISLAM OUR MEN ARE TO BE KILLED AND AMERICA RECEIVES MILLIONS OF ISLAMISTS WITH OPEN ARM AND REFUSE TO GIVE US ASYLUM.”
The suffering of non-Muslims in Muslim countries is beyond bearing. God help our brother and sister non-Muslims! This and other terrible horrors will take place in our Western countries if Muslim immigration is not stopped immediately!
PROTECT INNOCENTS! Permanently end ALL Muslim immigration-immigrant conquerors!
PROTECT Native American Children! PROTECT ALL American children! Don’t let happen in America what has happened in Britain!
South Yorkshire Police and Rotherham Council Are Complicit in Child-Rape
http://britishfreedom.org/south-yorkshire-police-and-rotherham-council-are-complicit-in-child-rape/
…thousands of predominately Pakistani Muslim gang rapes of white English girls in the Rotherham area…
There are no words to describe the EVIL of British leaders in importing massive numbers of Muslims to prey upon, and physically attack the British and to gang-rape, sexually enslave, and force into prostitution Britain’s defenseless children in OBEDIENCE to Islamic teaching. In importing massive numbers of the obedient soldiers of the dark god, Allah, UK leaders are fully aware of the suffering they are perpetrating on the British people. God’s future judgments on British and other Western leaders and cruel, filthy Muslim perpetrators will be terrifying. The Bible warns ‘It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the Living God’.
The dirty DECEIVERS and liars who call themselves the “Rotherham Safeguarding Children Board” call yourselves what you really are: The Rotherham Safeguarding Muslim Pedophile Gang Rapists Board.
Guilty police: Call yourselves what you really are: Police Defenders of Muslim Pedophile Gang Rapists of Defenseless British Children.
UK ruling elites: Call yourselves what you really are: Servants of the Dark god, Allah, and Protectors of Muslim Gang Rapists, Murderers and Terrorists.
Non-Muslims of the world must unite! Our treasonous Western leaders have imported many millions of Muslims into our countries in order for Muslims to wage jihad against us and conquer our countries as commanded by the Quran.
Support/join British Freedom, Britain’s last great hope! britishfreedom.org/
We dare not lose this battle or the darkest period the world has ever known will descend upon us.
Dear ‘Linda Rivera’,
You mean a kind of ‘Infidel Alliance’?
~ The Infidel Alliance
When dreadful things are being perpetrated against our non-Muslim brothers and sisters in another country, we in other countries should take to the streets in mass protests. We most certainly should be protesting the thousands of Muslim gang rapes of defenseless British children in just one area of England alone. COMING TO A CITY NEAR YOU SOON!
I strongly believe it is an extremely important part of the battle that we hold mass street protests for our non-Muslim brothers and sisters in other countries as well as our own. It is an absolute necessity for the survival of our extremely MERCIFUL civilization!
Support/join British Freedom, Britain’s last great hope! http://britishfreedom.org/
US businessmen should infiltrate the Kurdish areas of Turkey
Someone please explain to our Native Americans the purpose and function of mosques as explained by TURKISH Prime Minister, Erdogan:
Erdogan: The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers…
The Quran teaches hate, violence and murder of non-Muslims and commands Muslims to wage jihad against non-Muslims and conquer all nations.
I would like to add THERE ARE NO MODERATE MUSLIMS! You make no friends being a moderate Muslim, in fact you take your life in your hands if you are. You can be as fanatic as you like, scream, protest, fire your AK in the air and you are looked upon as true to your faith. Moderates are looked at askew and viewed as perhaps heretics or as a minimum misguided and too influenced by the west.
The Native American tribes are pursuing their perceived self-interest, just like everyone else does.
I also suspect the Turks will attempt to stoke the flames of racial hatred and stir up anti-American strife by playing the ‘victimization’ card.
Outside of small tracts for an embassy, Under no circumstances should any land in the US, regardless of ownership, be leased to a foreign nation. Not in the US nor in Canada. Especially any that have ties to Islamist! Sorry but no other religous sect on earth has it’s people commit sucide in order to hurt others. Stupidest thing in this world
so I hear that it is time to send the armenians back to turkey. And why if the turks drove the armenians into the deserts without food and water would they be trying to mix with the native americans let alone be doing business with native americans on native american turf for if not to play hippocrite. It is beyond time to dismantle the migrated and immigrated americans from north american soil and to hell with their hippocracy and foreign religions. native americans have not ever “needed” anyone else ever for the purpose of trade, we have always had enough of our own tribes to do business with here in the americas. the only thing that will ever come from doing business with foreigners is nothing but trouble for any native american. there is no such thing as true foreign friendly alliance that will ever benefit native americans, and it will always only bring the further persecution of native american tribes to the point of sheer and utter exctinction. there is no way in hell these native american politicians should be allowed to remain in political jobs and they will only further decimate their native american tribes , haven’t we lost enough already with all of these so called “foreign business alliances”. It is time to end the native political treason of non royal american indians and return to ways of our north american ancestral forefathers who had never seen a foreign trader in all their days. It is time for all of our native american tribes to dump these foreign trespassers right back into the ocean where they came from and let them drown until they dead.