Stealth Jihad in America
In 1995, Muslim Brotherhood Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi exhorted his followers to action with a bold promise. “We will conquer Europe, we will conquer America!” he declared. Similarly grandiose declarations had long been a staple of Islamist rhetoric, but al-Qaradawi stressed that victory would be achieved “not through the sword,” but through more covert measures — a kind of stealth jihad. Fourteen years later, Robert Spencer believes that al-Qaradawi has come closer to realizing his vision, both in Europe and the U.S., than many recognize.
This theme is at the heart of Spencer’s latest book, appropriately titled Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs
A stated goal of the book is to expose the efforts of Islamic radicals to impose Islamic Sharia law in the West. Given that they have yet to realize that goal, this may seem like an exercise in overreach. But in fact Spencer uncovers disturbing evidence that unreasonable accommodations are being made to Muslim religious practices and beliefs. It’s bad enough that Minnesota’s Muslim cabdrivers refused service to some 5,400 passengers for the offense of carrying alcohol, or that the Indianapolis airport in 2007 installed footbaths to accommodate Muslim prayer, or that at least nine universities now have Muslim-only prayer rooms. Worse is that such flagrantly preferential treatment for Islam has been justified by everyone from government authorities to academics and journalists as a victory for “religious freedom.”
It’s true of course that none of these examples of stealth jihad quite rise to the level of civilizational conquest. Considered together, however, they raise an uncomfortable question: How far is the United States willing to go to indulge demands for religious exclusivity — especially when, as in the case of the 50,000-100,000 American Muslims now living in polygamous arrangements, they violate national laws? As Spencer pointedly observes, “There is always more Sharia to accommodate.”
The only requirement a sufficiently advanced society needs for survival against subversive threats like creeping sharia is to not be a bunch of pussies.
It just takes a little spine and some application of self-governance by responsible adults. “Do not yield. Do not flinch. Stand up. We’re Americans, and we’ll never surrender.” That was the right sentiment. It was delivered by an Annapolis graduate.
Our great weakness as a nation has been in allowing the center of gravity for the nation to lurch away from the self-governed, self-disciplined, and in some cases self-educated citizen-sovereign.
The citizen-soldier, the citizen-rifleman, the self-employed autonomous individualist has succumbed to ‘soft fascism’, a ‘tyranny of nice’ of Potomac-residing pussies.
And we yield to them. We complain and cry when they…call us names. They can call me whatever ‘phobe they like, I’m not going to bow and pray toward whatever spot on the map they select.
Their top-heavy command is crumbling, and the effete snobs will fall with their monuments. The remnant of the Responsible America will resume taking their lead by a self-governing example when at last all take note how the nation’s infrastructure, especially the State Department, was built on an unsound foundation.
I am reminded of the communists in the Harry Truman cabinet. People were shocked when they were all shook out of their offices. It is also denied to this very day. I too have communicated with my Congressman and he like the rest, hears it but does what they want. How do we fix something like this? Don’t tell me to vote, I do and it’s a joke.
Islamophobia? You bet!
I suffer from Islamophobia. I fear Muslims.
When the Qur’an commands its followers to kill those who do not follow its tenets (Infidels), there is much to fear from those who call themselves Muslims.
When those Muslims who call for death to America and to Jews scream loudly from soapboxes everywhere (protected by the 1st Amendment) while those who call themselves “moderate” Muslims are silent, there is much to fear from those who call themselves Muslims.
Yes, I am Islamophobic. I feel safer being suspicious of ALL those who call themselves Muslims.
Prove me wrong.
The Koran states: “Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their numbers. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers” (5:51).
Islam is not only a religion but a political doctrine. It encompasses all of life, death, and post-death. It governs every aspect of existence from birth to beyond death.
If we (infidels) don’t fear this, we are fools – and we are doomed.
In many ways, many ask, what can we actually do concerning this “overtaking” of America. Here again, the Bible is a clear reminder of the eternal nature and guide for all:
2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
‘Nuff said…
I think watching the U.S.A. turn to socialism, wouldn’t be suprising that U.S.A. would also lean to Moslims.
Wahabis are financing thousands of mosques throughout the West and in the US. They are exporting immigrants whose numbers are growing disproportionately with the indegenous population and are making incremental demands for “rights” to promote their way of life which is directly opposite to our view of a civilized nation. It is a slow subliminal movement aimed at atracting little attention – until it is too late. They are patient, after all, they have been at this for almost 1400 years. Time to put the PC folks in the basement and stand up for America’s heritage.
Laksin: It is not insignificant that the most dramatic victories for stealth jihad — such as a British cemetery’s decision in 2006 to face all graves, for Muslims and non-Muslims, toward Mecca — have taken place in Europe rather than in the U.S.
In that way Islamofascism has been much like its non-Islamic counterpart: Always descending upon America, always landing on Europe.
I wonder how much longer this will last though, in a world that is now more thoroughly interconnected than ever before in human history and only getting more so. I doubt Islam will ever literally conquer the entire planet any time in the foreseeable future, but between the demands of globalization, the draining of national treasuries all over the world in the current economic crisis, and of course the PC/MC mentality, even relatively healthy nation-states may find themselves too weak to prevent Islamic movements from seriously challenging their monopoly on sovereignty, and coexisting as competitors for allegiance from their people.
Robert Spencer has been sounding the alarm for years. Why are so few of our leaders listening? Do we need another 911 to wake them up?
Robert Spencer has been sounding the alarm for years, but few people listen because he hasn’t properly identified the enemy.
Blaming “Islam” for the political and economic war that nations like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria and Pakistan are waging against us is like blaming Japanese and German culture for Axis aggression during WWII. How do you fight a war against a culture, or a religion? You can’t, unless you’re willing to abandon all democratic ideals, like believing that all people, even Muslims, are equal. If we abandon these core beliefs, what are we fighting for?
After the 9/11 attacks, CAIR lost 90% of its membership support. American Muslims do not support CAIR. Believing that Islam is the enemy would alienate us from our neighbors and potential friends. If we kept all Muslims from immigrating to America, we could be refusing entry to anti-terrorist spokesmen like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, M. Zuhdi Jasser or Wafa Sultan.
And who is trying to alienate us from our neighbors. CAIR is mostly supported by Saudi money. If any organization could be credited for the growth of ‘Islamophobia’, it’s CAIR. CAIR’s main function seems to be to alienate the American public, Muslims included, and to give people a bad impression of Islam in general. This does serve to deflect attention away from the real terror supporters in Saudi Arabia, which may be the goal of CAIR’s Saudi sponsors.
The Muslim Brotherhood, which is also Saudi sponsored, manages finances for al Qaeda and other terrorist militias. It also sponsors non-violent extremist groups in Europe, like Hizb-ut-Tahrir.
The Muslim brotherhood, nations that support terrorism and groups like CAIR are easily identifiable enemies – and they’re not all that powerful. We need to keep our eyes on those targets, and not be distracted by false alarms.
“After the 9/11 attacks, CAIR lost 90% of its membership support. American Muslims do not support CAIR.”
all smokescreen, islam has an “image problem”. If you say those 90% former members are all non-muslims I might believe you but those muslims leaving cair because they are allegedly “outraged” by their ideas simply want to subvert the country silently by demographics.
All fine and dandy, but I only see these types of articles in publications such as Jihad Watch, Contentions, Pajamas Media, Malkin … all blogs or publications that are ill-frequented by the masses. These types of articles need to be published for the masses. Everyone that visits Pajamas Media wants to read these types of articles mostly for validation of their current beliefs. But that does no good. Get it out to others. It may receive less reading and less $$$ for the writer, but it will gain more beneficial results.
Mary Madigan, for the record Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan are both atheists who have (obviously then) renounced Islam. The problem for me in what you write is that Islam itself has never had a serious doctrinal reformation, as Judaism and Christianity have had ad infinitum. Its unrevised doctrines, especially those regarding women, which are primitive in the extreme, are in complete opposition to Western Democracy. We are in a much greater bind than your post allows. Although I wish what you wrote were true, I believe you simplify.
Meanwhile, the most serious assaults on free speech have occurred at the misnamed U.N. Human Rights Council, which this July declared Islam and Sharia off-limits to criticism.
Oh, that’s funny. I think the Saudi king, Abdullah, spoke at “The UN” recently, with kind of the same agenda, couching it in less literal terms.
Just some effort to impose the same intimidation & fear of criticizing Islam that holds in many Muslim countries.
(anyway, if it’s God’s word, it shouldn’t need such meager and small-minded protections from the likes of mere mortals)
Do any of these individuals ever acknowledge the respect Islam has lost in the past few decades, with so much having been co-opted by radical Islamists and so many filthy acts of murder being justified in the name of Islam ?
CAIR has mastered the art of appearing to oppose terrorism, while at the same time leading the charge against those who seek to thwart it.
Seems an apt observation, based on the waffling around I saw in a TV interview when the current head of CAIR was asked whether he would condemn Hamas and Hezbollah.
He muttered something about opposing “terrorism”, but stopped short of any negative comments about H&H. The position, it seems, is that terrorism and these 2 major propagators of terrorism in the world are unrelated.
tanstaafl
Islam – the Koran itself – justifies the “filthy acts of murder” you speak of.
Political Islam – in other words Islam – is a blight upon the world.
Its unrevised doctrines, especially those regarding women, which are primitive in the extreme, are in complete opposition to Western Democracy. We are in a much greater bind than your post allows. Although I wish what you wrote were true, I believe you simplify.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Wafa Sultan are atheists, but M. Zuhdi Jasser is still a practicing Muslim. If we plan to create anti-immigration legislation that would discriminate against all Muslims, people like Ali and Sultan might suffer. People like Jasser definitely would.
I do simplify, because going into detail about the history of Wahhabism vs. Islam, the British tactic of finding the sonuvabitch who is “our friend” and pitting him against the sonuvabitch who is “our enemy” and their subsequent, misguided policy of legitimizing Wahhabism, the most malign element of Islam, our subsequent alliance with the Wahhabis, is just too complicated to get into.
People are understandably upset about our government’s tendency to ignore or just plainly fib about our alliance with the hub of world terrorism, Saudi Arabia (the sonuvabitch who is “our friend”). When our State Department pretends that the Muslim Brotherhood is a peaceful organization that we can work with, people realize that our govt. probably isn’t going to help us in this battle.
But blaming every Muslim for the problem isn’t a solution either. German culture and Japanese culture were partially responsible for Axis aggression, but we didn’t win the war by attacking the many odious aspects of their cultures. We won by focusing on the enemy’s military and economic infrastructure, and by dismantling it. We need to do the same thing now, with or without the help of the government.
Terrorism is fueled by petrodollars. Buying a solar roof, taking public transportation or criticizing our malign state department’s ‘great game’ plans would be more helpful in the war against terrorism than complaining about Muslims and quoting the Koran.
“Terrorism is fueled by petrodollars. ”
terorrism has been with islam since day one, petrodollars are not the problem, there is no respect for other religions in islam and this doesn’t depend on monetary issues.
Muhammad was an extremely violent and intelligent warrior. He recognized fear was a powerful motivator. And two images men feared most were a god and death. Thus, the basis for his “religion”.
Once convinced these fears were deeply perceived, he incorporated tenets to further strengthen the basis of fear.
The fear “We the People” exhibit with our “Political Correctness” is rife for any radicalism to get a secure accomplishment.
“We the Peoples” government anoints itself by criminalizing our language and is too busy stomping out political flare ups to look far enough ahead to see the true source of the fire. (And it’s not global warming.)
We the People are doomed; For the socialist, radical, irresponsible media, and legislators, have created inroads to our basic fears. This article warns of the results.
Muhammad was an extremely violent and intelligent warrior. He recognized fear was a powerful motivator. And two images men feared most were a god and death. Thus, the basis for his “religion”.
Once convinced these fears were deeply perceived, he incorporated tenets to further strengthen the basis of fear.
The fear “We the People” exhibit with our “Political Correctness” is rife for any radicalism to gain a secure accomplishment.
“We the Peoples” government anoints itself by criminalizing our language and is too busy stomping out political flare ups to look far enough ahead to see the true source of the fire. (And it’s not global warming.)
We the People are doomed; For the socialist, radical, irresponsible media, and legislators, have created inroads to our basic fears. The article itself warns of the results.
I apologize for the double entry
This seems appropriate (I scooped it from my comment on Torture, which appeared at the end of the thread):
So many commenters have already pointed out the manifest differences. There is no moral equivalency here. Your faith and decency hold all to be equal, while theirs does not. Your faith and humanity abhor violence and aver dignity and forgiveness, while theirs instills violence as duty and swears revenge. Your faith and humanity abjures blowing up innocents, theirs glorifies it. These are not the same. These are, however, some of the bricks.
The brick to which I was referring where the memes in the left’s wall of wishful thinking. You’d have to read the whole thing to see what I’m getting at.
to get informed and stay informed….two excellent sources: Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch. Keep educating ourselves with the facts. Keep talking to friends and family.
Keep in mind–Islam is BOTH an exclusivistic religion (“we’ll kill you if you don’t convert”) and a totalitarian form of government (“we’ll kill you if you don’t submit–even if you are Muslim”). This is a deadly, deadly combination.
I can only conclude that our “powers that be” who SHOULD be talking about this stuff for the sake of national security are either really stupid or scared. To your muskets.
Mary said: Blaming “Islam” for the political and economic war that nations like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria and Pakistan are waging against us is like blaming Japanese and German culture for Axis aggression during WWII. How do you fight a war against a culture, or a religion?
In fact, we did fight the Japanese’ bushido culture and their religion. The way we fought it was with guns, and the when the war was won, we made sure that it would never begin again by forcing the Japanese to admit that their emperor was no god.
The same thing is likely needed to end jihad.
Right now the majority opinion in the West tends to cluster about Mary Madigan’s views, all of them failing to take into account the theology and scriptures that are at the root of the problem. Even most of the political, media, academic, and policy elites will not do the hard spade work that Robert Spencer has done, and which some of us have done at his urging.
The people of Catholic and Orthodox Europe understood exactly the nature of the problem and menace staring them in the face. Initially, during the first century and a half of Islam’s jihad when it broke out from the Hijaz, the Christian, Jewish, and Zoroastrian societies tried to appease and buy off the armies of Allah. It didn’t work. An all to common problem, also, was the reality of traitors in their midst who made political alliances with the jihadis for their own gain (the promise of power-sharing when dar al Islam marched in the gate). Sound familiar? Some Christian communities had strong pacifist ideologies and refused to defend themselves. Sound familiar?
We are in a perilous situation because:
1. The people who guide, craft, and implement policy do not read the Qur’an and ahadith. They don’t study what Muhammad’s career and deeds were. What they attempt to do is to use the templates from our political science community to filter the Islamic reality, thereby getting the enemy’s motive wrong and underestimating the threat.
2. Our advancing secularism, resting on the foundation of post-modernist nihilism, increasingly lacks the moral and intellectual categories to name and face the threat. Thus, so much of our population is easily swayed by the tu quoque arguments of the socialists and post-modernists (“all religions are equal” – inferring that all share the same tendencies and excesses). Only those who DO have a solid background in theology and scripture (including Islamic theology and scripture) appreciate the warnings that Pope Benedict XVI issue about Islam’s threat to the West.
3. The Marxists are actively in an alliance of convenience with dar al Islam to undermine and destroy the West. Such loathesome company must be called out and itself fought with every means at our disposal.
I have no fear of Islam, just an undying wrath toward it. Mohammed, cursed be his name, is responsible for bloodshed on the scale of communism. We can fight them easily with nuclear weapons- no one can defeat an enemy who is willing and able to engage in wholesale slaughter of the other side (they are willing, but our nukes would make them unable). Promise them that any terrorist attack, a term which shall be defined by us arbitrarily, shall be responded to by dropping a nuclear weapon on whomever we deem responsible, and no refuge shall be given to holy sites or civilian targets, and neither shall human shields be able to cause us to stand down. All civilians stand warned that their governments will get them killed if they continue to engage in wars with utter disregard for the Geneva Convention.
Christianity has bent against Islam but never broken, and ultimately, since the Gates of Vienna, has been ascendant. The difference now is that the Anti-Christians of the Left are the best allies that Islam has ever had. Last time, the Useful Idiots that Lenin saw as the Trojan Horse that would give his side victory, were fortunately deflected by the fight against Fascism. As a result, Russian Communism, weakened by 100,000,000 or more deaths, ultimately met the Scrapheap. Will the Useful Idiots now give the baton to an archaic 7th-8th Century Monotheistic Religion still split by Schism and not yet leavened by Reformation? If Religious Evolution is the same for all religions, then the Islam Clock starting at 680 now reads about 1330 in AD terms, still 200 years before Martin bin Luther arrives with the Reformation that Islam now needs. Can the West hurry that Reformation despite the Useful Idiots? That just may make the difference and then once again the Useful Idiots can live up to the Second Half of their name. Up the Revolution!
In fact, we did fight the Japanese’ bushido culture and their religion. The way we fought it was with guns, and the when the war was won, we made sure that it would never begin again by forcing the Japanese to admit that their emperor was no god.
The same thing is likely needed to end jihad.
Our government fought the fascist governments that supported the Japanese and the German armies. We destroyed their economies and their infrastructure. When we had eliminated their military and economic infrastructure, we were able to force the Germans and the Japanese to accept democracy. We were able to force these formerly racist enemies to accept our ideals of equality and our form of government. We did that without reading their holy books, without reaffirming our Christianity, and without blaming the left for everything.
If we had ignored their economic and military infrastructure, if we had, instead, focused on the history and scripture surrounding Bushido, if we’d expelled all of the Japanese and Germans from America via cattle cars, as some European groups would like to do to Muslims, would we have won WWII?
The nations that support terrorism are militarily and economically vulnerable. If oil prices continue to head downwards, our Islamist enemies, as well as the Russians, will be severely weakened. Pakistan is surrounded by enemies that are more educated and more powerful that Pakistan will ever be. Nations that are ruled by Sharia are, by nature, undereducated and impoverished in every way. We do lack the political will to militarily disable these lame enemies, these states that sponsor terrorism, and we do need to force our government to abandon its current policy of accepting terrorism as a cost of doing business with these states. We can do that without reading one word of the Koran.
The first rule of waging war is, know the enemy. Our most trusted allies in Iraq are the Kurds, and they’re conservative Muslims. Many educated Turks know more about the benefits of separation of church and state than most Europeans. The majority of American Muslims do not support extremism. All of Islam is not the enemy.
If we believe that the enemy is : the states that sponsor terrorism (Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the UAE) and the organizations that provide the economic and cultural infrastructure (the Muslim Brotherhood, CAIR, Hizb ut Tahrir), we know how to fight it.
If we believe that the enemy is “Islam”, how do the anti-Islam spokesmen plan to fight it? Discriminate against immigrants on the basis of religion?Join groups like Vlaams Belang and fight for the right to export Muslims, men, women and children, from Europe in cattle cars? Have endless, tedious discussions about passages in the Koran? Say mean things about Muslims on the internet? Become better Christians?
Be sure to read Mark Steyn’s book “America Alone”. It’s excellent.
I think there are two issues. First, we need to to make sure that anyone that provides support to a suicide bomber, either logistical, financial, recruiting, etc, gets a bullet. Behind every radical that blows themselves up is a network of others who provide the money, the means, etc. And any liberal that ties the hands of the military, law enforcement, intelligence, etc in the process is just sacrificing the lives of others for their guilty conscience.
The second is culture. For some reason America doesn’t have the guts to hold the line on its values. If it could, it wouldn’t have to worry about either the liberals or the muslims or anyone else that wants to screw up the country. Immigration, muslim or otherwise, wouldn’t even be an issue because if you weren’t in the US to work or otherwise contribute and integrate, you’d be shown the door.
Strategic Foresight Group, a political think tank based in Bombay India has just come out with a report on the ‘Cost of Conflict in the Middle East’
http://www.strategicforesight.com
It is the first comprehensive report on the conflict in this region in 60 years.
It measures several aspects of the cost including the human, social, economic, psychological and military costs amongst others.
mary madigan displays a good chunk of ignorance.
Italian fascism and nazism didn’t ground their ideas on an religious book. And turkey is not secular by any means. Christian people and christian churches are routinely harassed among the muslims’ indifference.
If this your dream of secular islamic country, dark times are ahead indeed.
PS: before you spew some more ignorance, do not teach me what fascism was because I am italian, as well as don’t teach me what arab colonization means because we had to stop the barbarians in lepanto, italy among other places.
And yes, the best thing should be deportation of all muslims and ban of islam. It is impossible to share the imaginary “moderates” from the rest wishing the caliphate
susan – I wouldn’t dream of trying to teach fascism to someone who clearly understands it so well.
Do you believe that Spencer, politicians like Geert Wilders and groups like Vlaams Belang support the deportation of muslims and a ban of Islam?
…our “powers that be” who SHOULD be talking about this stuff for the sake of national security are either really stupid or scared.
They’re so used to the delicate, juggling, balancing act of dancing to political correctness (and similar tunes), they’re of practically no use whatsoever.
They exist to make backroom deals and to not say anything that might land them in hot water & jeopardize their own political futures.
Was it John Adams who said, IF you don’t take this thing seriously and protect and nurture what we’ve sacrificed so much to create here (this Representative Republic), I’ll jump out of the grave and strangle you ?
(ok, so I paraphrase
but Adams would be very busy these days, strangling the so called leaders of the Republic)
For the next crisis, our putative leaders will go into self-important panic mode, staying up all night a night or 3 and frantically calling each other on the phone as to how to “handle” it. Lots of infighting and arguing as to how to proceed.
Trying to be the guy (or girl) who “saves the day” and gets the credit in the media.
Of course, violent jihadists, sussing out all this self-indulgent lack of backbone and apparent lack of any effective, long range strategy for erasing their foul agenda, appreciate the dance immensely.
All of Islam is not the enemy.
I get tired of this argument. I (personally) have never assumed all of Islam is the enemy, despite some of the violence promoting verses of the Koran that served Mohammed well in the 7th century. (Isn’t it true that the Koran wasn’t even written down until some 150 or so years after Mohammed’s death ?)
I take issue with all the Muslim world who, overtly or even covertly, celebrate the violent acts of destruction aimed at anything that smacks of western civilization (most recently, hotels and human beings in Mumbai). And there seem to be a lot of them who greatly appreciated the Egyptian correspondent who threw his shoes at President Bush in Baghdad.
(the chickensh!t would hardly have dared to confront S. Hussein in such a fashion)
And all in the Arab world who danced for joy in the streets following 911.
There is a lot of sympathy and support for the jihadist movement throughout the Muslim world and, for that at least, I will indict the culture & religion that in-spire them.
Susan, are you the intellectual heir of fellow Italian, Oriana Fallaci ?
I have greatly appreciated some of her essays, the mind and the fire of Signora Fallaci
Jihad is like malaria, it flares up from time to time but if treated is not fatal. After all, a toothless UN resolution against defamation of religion can cut both ways. The ones here railing against the “Potomac Pussies”, as if Washington has mandated we all face Mecca 5x a day, display an ugly, anti-intellectual paranoia that a ginned up lynch mob exudes.
Let’s not forget that quietly millions of Muslims are becoming more westernized and humane and will eventually reform or discard their faith. Though their fundamentalist jihad nonsense has traditional appeal, the tide of history is on our side.
Islam is not a religion. It is a cult, just as the child-sacrificers of the ancient Mayans or the brainwashers of modern-day Scientologists or the koolaid drinkers of Jim Jones were. Like all cults, it is to be closely monitored and controlled. Anything less will lead to disaster.
Liberty. Islam has never produced anything resembling a free society. Even its alleged tolerance is vastly overrated, as even the Ottoman Empire ended up committing crimes against its ethnic minorities that made the treatment of the Jews at the hands of pre-20th century European states look quaint by comparison. A devoutly Muslim society, the Ottoman Empire, gave us our first modern genocide (the Armenian genocide).
For many of us, democracy is just a means to an end. I would rather have a king who left me alone, than a democratic state that thinks it has a popular mandate to boss me around.
Reference 09/11/2001;
The perpetrators of these actions lived here within homogenous people of the United States, experienced life in America for several years, even enjoyed their final days, yet still prayed to Allah 5 times a day, with the intention of turning themselves into weapons of mass destruction.
Pray tell how “We the People” can conquer any mindset/religion such as this? Their ultimate purpose is to extinguish Western Culture and replace it with their own. Go for a get together at your local mosque and see what a warm, fuzzy feeling you leave with.
Here’s more evidence of the progress Islam is making on the “We the People”;
Article: U.S. Taxpayers Wrongly Own Company That Has Shari’a-Compliant Subsidiary
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=41130
Oh, please! I’m a little insulted that some people think me and my neighbors will just roll over and play dead so easily in the face of this PC crap. Have a little faith in your fellow American citizens. Our bull**** meters are working fine, thank you, and these radical islamist idiots aren’t going to take over (ever). And if some jihadist idiot decides to use force to impose his empty, hateful “faith” on my part of the nation, he/she can expect a forceful response from a (to borrow the terminology from our liberal brethren) “diverse”, “multicultural” and extremely well-armed group of American citizens.
Mary Madigan said: Blaming “Islam” for the political and economic war that nations like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria and Pakistan are waging against us is like blaming Japanese and German culture for Axis aggression during WWII. How do you fight a war against a culture, or a religion?
**************************************************
Mary,
we won the war against the madmen hitler and tojo and mussolini. would you prefer that we had lost the war? that our society would have been crushed and dominated by them?
I would ban islam, yes. there is no parity. there is us. and them. everything islamists believe is antithetical to our western democracy and our view of the world. we are a great push forward in the service of mankind.
When I look out my window that is the only view i want to see. I want my children to see that. and their children.
islamists are, in my view, a boil on our neck. and like a boil, all any thinking person would want it to do is go away.
we won the war against the madmen hitler and tojo and mussolini. would you prefer that we had lost the war? that our society would have been crushed and dominated by them?
Judy, I’m saying that we should follow the same course of action that was successful against hitler and mussolini – know the enemy, destroy their infrastructure and destroy the powerful men who finance the enemy’s war against us.
By suggesting that we ‘ban Islam’, you appear to be suggesting that, instead of gathering the courage to attack the strongmen in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Iran, we should instead feel better about ourselves by picking on the local guy who sells halal chicken. Cuz he’s Muslim, and that’s bad.
So who has America’s best interests at heart?
If one goes through the above comments with an impartial stance, one would be forced to ask the question, “Who hates, we muslims or you who have written the above comments”.
waging a military war is STUPID, it will end up that we have to baby sit all those arabs for decades like they expect us to do (remember that they feel christians must pay them jyza tax).
The war we have to put in place is CULTURAL. No concession to anything asked by muslims, no extra hours off for prayers, no sharia compliant banks, no muslim festivity honored, no muslim slaugher, no allowance of their diet, no permission to poligamy, no permission to denigrate other religions in their mosques, no permission to appoint imams, NO MORE CRAVING TO THEIR DEMANDS!!!!
You will find out that around this hostile enviroment they eventually will leave or will be forced to abandon islam for good.
Also have a paper signed by every immigrant of muslim background stating that no “jihad” will be permitted on western soil, militar or cultural and will be faced with instant deportation.
faisal, let’s compare the treatment of non-muslims in muslim countries and the pampered treatment of muslims in western countries.
You muslims are THE LAST people on earth lecturing others about hate/love.
Where do you live faisal? in a western country sucking off the wealth or in some islamic country where a christian is beaten up among the muslims’ indifference just for wearing a cross.
Let’s talk about the numerous christians priests and NUNS murdered in “peaceful” muslim countries.
This the contradiction and hypocrisy of politically correct “tolerance”. Tolerance is synonomous with acceptance so if you do not accept someone’s sexuality or beliefs you are by definition intolerant. If Shariah law is advanced under the PC polices version of tolerance, we will see a rise in persecution of Jews and Christians, because they will not accept Shariah law.
waging a military war is STUPID, it will end up that we have to baby sit all those arabs for decades like they expect us to do
Waging a large scale military war, like in Iraq, is stupid. When we go into these countries, their military forces are easily defeated, but they send in the insurgents to attack the ‘occupation’.
It’s more effective to weaken these nations by disabling their economies, the Islamic banking system and their intelligence operations. If we had studied anything about terrorism before going into Iraq, we would have known that. Unfortunately, the first military counterterrorism manual was only published in 2005.
Sunni terrorists like al Qaeda, Lashkar-e-Toiba, etc. are mostly supported by wealthy Saudis and other Wahhabi affiliated Arabs in the UAE. Billions of dollars of charitable funds for terrorism are funneled through the Islamic banking system, through Britain and the Muslim brotherhood’s offshore accounts, through swiss bands and the Taliban’s drug trade. These terrorists are trained in Pakistani madrassas and and through Pakistan’s intelligence services.
Terrorist attacks threaten the stability of governments from Thailand to Tobago, in India, Israel, and Lebanon. The majority of suicide bombers in Iraq were Saudis, sent to Iraq with the blessing of the Saudi government. Those suicide bombers showed how much damage our alliance with these terror supporters could cause. They nearly destroyed Iraq. These attacks only stopped when local Iraqis decided that they’d had enough, and they killed enough al Qaeda to convince the Saudis to stop the attacks.
Shiite terror militias like Hezbollah are mostly funded by Iran. Hezbollah threatens Israel and Lebanon’s security. They’re supported by billionaire Mullahs in Iran, as well as by drug trade and smuggling operations in the US and South/Central America.
How, exactly do you think that refusing American and European muslims extra hours off for prayers will affect this worldwide economic and military terrorist infrastructure? I mean, I don’t think that Muslims deserve special treatment, and I have no objection to anything that makes this clear, but do you think that this will convince the Saudis, Afghans, Iranians, Pakistanis and others who profit from terrorism to put their dreams of wealth, influence and lebesnraum aside?
Susan, at this time, muslims are sitting on the major resources of the world. So, you should re-think your analysis that we muslims are sucking on the resources of the west. It is actually the other way around. This war on terror is just another ploy to gain access to world resources which the powerless muslims are sitting on. What is Al-Qaeda but a stooge of the American CIA.
Further, no christian or any other minority is ever beaten up in Muslim countries, for following their religion. In fact, most Christian Nuns and priests have been murdered in India by hindu extremists. The West does not criticize the Indian government for its in-action against the hindu extremists as the West needs India for their own purpose.
Mary: I enjoy your posts, and the confidence with which you express these opinions (and willingness to post them head on right here) is highly suggestive that you have no doubts where your sympathies lie first. Your conviction is firmly that of one who values plans that actually work, acting to solve problems rather than merely acting, and a firm faith in the liberty and equality that western democracy affords. Treating causes not symptoms as it were.
And yet: there is a hint of lament in your posts. Lament that your convictions as I’ve just supposed them to be make you unique among your chosen associates of the left. That tiny, tiny hint of defense you feel obligated to extend — defense of your fellow residents of the left (who bless them are often rather childlike in their formulations of the real actual world), and defense of the much valued principles they espouse — that hint of defense gives you away. They are like the beautiful woman, or the artist, who must be protected from all that is real, by the few among them who happen to understand the real, because the contribution they make to humanity is the better half of what humanity is. Thus, I find you are not after all the objective solution-proposer you suppose yourself to be. As direct and intelligent as you clearly are, and as much as I might enjoy exploring solutions with you, you simply cannot bring yourself to actually pronounce the incongruities between Islam (of any degree) and democratic governance. To do so simply undermines your values. Which makes you the beautiful woman who must be protected from all that is real.
Your position is that Islam is not irreconcilable with western democracy because most Muslims are not good Muslims, not because Islam is chiefly authoritarian and as such competes with other authoritarian systems (as in, like, government — and more specifically self-government). And you should acknowledge that your dependence on mankind’s aversion to strictly follow their faith is not itself a defense of that faith’s tenants to the extent they conflict with the very society that has made it safe for all that you value (plurality, tolerance, the weak protected by the strong, freedom, equality of women, etc.) to flourish.
Kudos to you for posting here. You would make a fine conservative, but you are somehow more attractive as conservative of the left.
thought I had posted, but perhaps it got removed? the cliff’s notes:
Islam far more an authoritarian political system than other major religions, and it therefore competes with other authoritarian systems, namely government. This includes self-government. Many left-leaners (even a conservative left-leaner with a real world bent like Mary) simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge this fundamental incongruity, because they believe it flies in the face of the higher directive of tolerance. To demonstrate the hollowness of this in short: folks like Mary make arguments that rest ultimately on the fact that most Muslims are not good Muslims. My point is simply that this hardly gets Islam out of the indictment. And eventually, in one way or another, the preservation of self-government (which engenders the tolerance that we Westerners hold sacrosanct pun intended) will require that tolerance is not unlimited.
Most Germans were never serious nazis. Nazis were a “tiny minority” of Germany.
Most Russians (or Chinese) were never serious communists. Communists were a “tiny minority” of Russia (China).
Ultimately it made no difference to the 10 of 15 million murdered by the nazis, or the 100 million murdered by the communists.
Most mohammedans are not fanatic jihaddis.
So what?
===========
The proper answer to the “innocent” mohammedans of the world is — help us or stand out of the way!
Our primary responsibility is to defend ourselves and our way of life.
The mohammedans who can’t appreciate that and sympathize are simply silent, cowardly jihaddi collaborators.
Mary:
It is essential when fighting an ideological enemy that his ideology be discredited and it’s adherents publicly shamed.
It works.
If you are in the slightest doubt about this reflect for a moment on the fate of conservatives in academia and the fate of:
Capitalists in Russia
Capitalists in China
Falon Gong practitioners in China
Christians in Iraq
Assyrians in Iraq
Bahai in Persia
Christians in Judea and Samaria
Coptic Christians in Egypt
Catholics in Lebanon
Buddhists in southern Thailand
Buddhists in Malasia
Buddhists & Hindus in Indonesia
the entire high Hindu culture of pre-colonial India
… and last but not least,
Buddhists in Afghanistan (there aren’t any anymore)
We stomped the Bund movement here in the US during WWII and made some effort to de-nazify Germany after the war.
We interned the Japanese during WWII and suppressed the practice of State Shinto in Japan after the war.
It worked.
Ideology counts.
Full-bore orthodox mohammedanism is more than just a private religion. It is an all encompassing political ideology.
And it’s a totalitarian ideology at that.
So yeah, not letting the local mohammedans have extra perks to practice their “religion” on company time actually does matter.
It is important to remember that we are fighting an imperialist ideological movement committed to its delusions of superiority. Those delusions must be confronted and discredited.
It is a bit like dealing with a drunk that pretends to be a novelist without ever having written a book. Pretending that everything is all right only makes matters worse.
The fact is that wherever totalitarian mohammedanism has been allowed to take hold, the culture and economy go down the toilet fast and stay down for centuries. This is just brute fact. I think Spain produces more technology patents, novels and movies than the entire mohammedan sphere of influence put together.
When was the last time you ran out to buy the latest Jordanian DVD player? How about an arabian car?
The world has to get it that this stuff is dangerous. And their special pleading has to be confronted rigorously and denied flat.
Ideology counts.
The Western model of democratic governmnet is doomed to fail just like communism. The Islamic model is the alternative which has been successfully implemented in the past.
The failure of democracy has already started with the collapse of the “free market” financial model.
If one analyzes the Islamic model of governance purely in a secular fashion, one will realize its superiority to the crumbling democratic model. You do not have to become a muslim to follow it. The western style democracy was enforced upon less-developed countries and now is on its way out.
In India, it is literally viewed as a manipulative system. Billions of low-caste hindus are manipulated in the hands of the Brahman minority in the name of democracy.
The best cure for creeping Wahabiism in America is to defund the Saudis. The whole thing is financed by our petroleum addiction. Tax gasoline and encourage alternative energy.
“How, exactly do you think that refusing American and European muslims extra hours off for prayers will affect this worldwide economic and military terrorist infrastructure? I mean, I don’t think that Muslims deserve special treatment, and I have no objection to anything that makes this clear, but do you think that this will convince the Saudis, Afghans, Iranians, Pakistanis and others who profit from terrorism to put their dreams of wealth, influence and lebesnraum aside?”
I repeat my sentence that you are lack a great deal of knowledge.
Muslim countries would COLLAPSE anyway, no need to fire a bullet, but we must get rid of the problem in OUR lands.
Let them deal with their barbarity in their own country and stop sending them money, medicines and technology. Bang, it’s middle age in a second.
“Susan, at this time, muslims are sitting on the major resources of the world. So, you should re-think your analysis that we muslims are sucking on the resources of the west.”
faisal, ever heard of “welfare” and muslim sucking it off with their multiple wives and multiple children?
I am correct in my statement, the west BUYS your dirty oil, but muslims in the west do not “buy” for education, medicine, it’s all free and paid by taxpayers.
“Susan, at this time, muslims are sitting on the major resources of the world. So, you should re-think your analysis that we muslims are sucking on the resources of the west.”
this statement is false to the core because you muslims are notoriously liars.
Wait for a subsequent post of mine to dismiss your false statement as muslim propaganda and I do wish not to see you anymore around here after being caught being the liar that you are.
If you westeners could use hate to fuel yours cars, you would have ample supply of it and there will be no need to buy Middle-Eastern oil. However, since that is not the case, you have to pay for the oil, which of course you do not want to. And therefore, this war on terror.
Poor Muslims have travelled to Western lands so that they can also benefit from the wealth being transfered from Muslim lands to Europe and America.
“Poor Muslims have travelled to Western lands so that they can also benefit from the wealth being transfered from Muslim lands to Europe and America.”
Wow, do you have that backwards, Faisal. It is the Muslim world that has received *trillions* of dollars from the West because their sand dunes happen to be sitting on an ocean of oil. They wouldn’t even know how to get it out of the ground without Western technology.
And what do they have to show for it? Nothing but limousines, concubines and terrorists. No great universities, no scientific or medical advances for the benefit of the world. We may as well have flushed that money down the toilet for all the good it has done.
As for “hatred”, well it isn’t Christians, Jews or Hindus who are flying airplanes into buildings.
The Middle Eastern Oil is the wealth of the Arabs. You speak as if they are the guilty party here. The Americans have set up puppet regimes all around the Middle East and are siphoning off Oil from there. It is these puppet regimes who have the limousines and concubines. Once the peoples power is established, that will not be the case. You will then either have to pay through your nose for the oil or will have to tie a donkey in front of your car.
As far as hatred is concerned, we Muslims do not hate. We Muslims are not even allowed to criticize other faiths. In fact the word Islam means Peace. When a Muslim greets another person of any faith, he says “As-salam-alaikum” which means “Peace be upon you”. This is to declare that we come in Peace. Who is flying these planes, funded by whom, it would be better if you ask Osama and his friends in the CIA.
what a bunch of lies faisal says
The muslims in the west brought things like honor killing, forced conversions, living off welfare, butching animals in inhumane way, criminality and treating women like cattle
ALL muslim countries signed a UN declaration of human rights that is DIFFERENT from the one signed by the rest of the world countries stating that DE FACTO the muslim human rights are second to sharia law that sanction the inferiority of the non-muslims.
Islam doesn’t mean PEACE, it means submission
The islamic peace is the forced conversion of all other creeds to islam.
Muslims will not live together with other creeds and this is well explained by the constant persecution they submit other religion to, in their countries.
PERSECUTION In PAKISTAN
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rt_pakis.htm
Pakistani Blasphemy Law
In 1986, dictator General Zia-Ul Haw modified the law to protect only Islam.
The law is being used in Pakistan to discriminate against religious minorities: largely Christians, and Ahmadis. Under the present law, a Muslim may blaspheme Christianity with impunity. But a Christian doing the same against Islam can theoretically be executed.
“Pakistan’s blasphemy laws are so vaguely formulated that they encourage, and in fact invite, the persecution of religious minorities or non-conforming members of [the] Muslim majority.”
Persecution in Egypt
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008642.php
Thousands of angry Muslims are currently surrounding St George Coptic Orthodox Church in Muharam Bek, Alexandria, Egypt.
Muslim mob burned two police vehicles and a fire truck in addition to injuring many police officers by hurling rocks at them in an attempt to raid the church and burn it.
The Copts (orthodox Christians) are persecuted by radical Islamic groups and at times by local police and other security officials. While the Egyptian government does not have a policy to persecute Christians, it discriminates against them and hampers their freedom of worship, and its agencies sporadically persecute Muslim converts to Christianity. In particular,Egypt enforces onerous Hamayouni restrictions on building or repairing churches, restrictions that do not apply to mosques.
The Copts’ ability to exercise their basic right to free worship is frustrated by Egypt complex, and frequently arbitrary, requirements for building and repairing churches or church-owned buildings. These culminate in the requirement that the State President must personally approve all building applications, and the Provincial Governors must approve all applications for repairs, even for something as small as repairing a toilet or a broken window.
The government applies religiously-discriminatory laws and practices concerning conversion, marriage, parenthood, education, and clergy salaries.The government has effectively restricted Christians from senior government, political, military, or educational positions, and there is increasing discrimination in the private sector.
persecuted christians in turkey
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?story_id=10337900
THIS has been a bad year for Orhan Picaklar. As a Protestant missionary in Samsun, on the Black Sea, he has had death threats and his church has been repeatedly stoned. Local newspapers called him a foreign agent. A group of youths tried to kidnap him as he was driving home. His pleas for police protection have gone unheeded.
http://www.persecution.org/Countries/algeria.html
The Family Code prohibits Muslim women from marrying non-Muslim men but places no restrictions on who Muslim men can marry.
Non-Islamic proselytizing is illegal. Conversions from Islam to another faith are not illegal, but the government does not recognize them.
Converts from Islam often experience other security worries and legal and social problems
Faisal: It’s kind of hard to take your comments seriously. Defending Islam as a way of life requires the adoption of a number of pretty primitive philosophies. Socialism does not work. Systems that systematically repress women ultimately collapse. Submission may work for you and others who become sociopaths when you’re not told what to think and how to reconcile your place in the world. But most especially, of all your pedestrian formulations, your notion of “hate” is probably the least informed. Hate should really be specified, for instance, “hate of islam”, “hate of socialism”, “hate of freedom”, “hate of women”, etc.
Personally, I think many of those who embrace Islam’s disrespect of women are in fact latent homosexuals. Think about it. What should we assume, perhaps 10% of the population are predisposed to being homosexual? 5%? 15%? Whatever it is, the same percentage of Muslims are likely no different. Curious that the population of radical Muslims — those who most closely embrace the Islam’s perverse treatment of women — is surely less than whatever percentage of Muslims are radical.
Don’t worry — many other faiths used to hold the same tenants. Which merely means that Islam is not unlike other religions — just more antiquated and primitive.
Faisal: “We Muslims are not even allowed to criticize other faiths.”
The charter of Hamas explicitly calls for the murder of Jews. Not Israelis, not Zionists, but Jews. You are a liar, plain and simple, Faisal.
Susan :
First of all Islam means Peace. A muslim is one who submits to the will of Allah in peace.
You talk about Zia-ul-Haq. Who was he but a dictator and a staunch American ally. He raped the constitution of Pakistan and implemented laws in the name of Islam which have nothing to do with Islam. He was used by the Americans and than killed by the Americans. These laws still exist in Pakistan, because we have no judicial system. The Americans do not want to see an effecient judicial system in Pakistan because our ousted Chief Justice tried to probe into cases of Guantanamo bay prisoners of Pakistan origin. Therefore, he was fired from the job. The region of Pakistan is strategically becoming a very important region of the world. Most probably, the Americans will fight World War III sitting in Pakistan. So, they want everything in their control. Those punished under the blasphemy law are mostly due to personal enmity and is nothing to do with religion. It is not just the minorities who suffer under these laws, but anyone who is not rich and powerful. To sum it up, these laws were not made because of any religious requirement nor do they exist to punish blasphemers.
You said that “a Muslim may blaspheme Christianity with impunity” How can a Muslim remain a Muslim by blaspheming Jesus Christ . We believe in him being a messenger of God.
The Quran states :
“Say (O Muslims) : ‘We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ebrahim, Ismail, Ishaq, Yaqub, and to Al-Asbat (the offspring of the twelve sons of Yaqub), and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and Isa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam).’ “(2:136)
You said:
“The islamic peace is the forced conversion of all other creeds to islam”
The duty of the muslim is not to convert non-believers, however our duty is to spread the message of truth. The Quran states
“There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer and All-Knower ” (2:256)
Gary you said :
“The charter of Hamas explicitly calls for the murder of Jews. Not Israelis, not Zionists, but Jews. You are a liar, plain and simple, Faisal.”
The Hamas says the following in its charter.
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”
The Hamas is not fighting Israel because they are Jewish.
The Hamas is at present engaged in a war of survival with Israel. Their women and children are brutally killed everyday. They have been driven out of their houses. Do you expect them to garland Israel with flowers. Of course they will fight till the last man. The Hamas is not fighting Israel because they are Jewish.
Islam means submission.
All human are born free, except muslims that are submitted to islam. God (which is the christian god and not the pagan moon god of islam) created man FREE! The muslim man is not free, it’s enslaved in islam.
Persecution of all non-muslims are present in EVERY muslim majority country not just pakistan.
I explained to you that I do not have the time and the patience to educate the fools like yourself, but I could have post all day about what is the level of hatred and persecution that non-muslims suffers worldwide.
The judicial system is NOT the problem, muslim people are, if they feel that raping a woman to force her conversion it’s not a problem of the judicial system. If they feel it’s right to murder christian, it’s not a problem of the judicial system.
“Those punished under the blasphemy law are mostly due to personal enmity and is nothing to do with religion.”
you probably think we are stupid. Nothing to do with religion? ok, this must be the reason why it’s always muslim denouncing non-muslims of blasphemy, because they know that the other way around has NO GROUND.
Do you burn down churches for personal animosity? Why do you burn down christian shops in egypt? It’s all about personal animosity? why your personal animosity is towards non-muslims?
“How can a Muslim remain a Muslim by blaspheming Jesus Christ . We believe in him being a messenger of God. ”
In my country there are several statues around towns of religious figures, we never had a problem with any immigrant, but all the times that those statues are destroyed it’s always muslims doing it. Chinese people have no interest in destroying christian religious figures, muslims have a reason, they do what they always did in their hometowns, destroying non-muslim symbols.
What you do with your conscience is none of my problem, I do not even believe you have a conscience to begin with.
Islam has been spread with sword, not with “messages”.
If you are so sure that your religion has got a philosophical ground and religious ground why convesions out of islam are not allowed? because you know that the only way to keep people into islam is through poverty, ignorance and force.
Islam is a totalitarian cult, you can get in, but you cannot get out, that is the EVIDENCE that your FANATIC cult doesn’t stand scrutinity.
You never answered why you REFUSED to subscribe the UN declaration of human rights that states FREEDOM OF RELIGION AND CONVERSION, but you signed another one only for muslim countries that states everything is second to SHARIA LAW.
You are a bunch of hypocritical
The Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam diverges from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in key respects, most notably in that the former unambiguously recognizes only those human rights that are in accordance with Sharia.[2]
Article 24 of the declaration states: “All the rights and freedoms stipulated in this Declaration are subject to the Islamic Sharia.” Article 19 also says: “There shall be no crime or punishment except as provided for in the Sharia.”
The role of Islamic law as a sole source of legal opinion is confirmed by the Article 25, which asserts that “The Islamic Sharia is the only source of reference for the explanation or clarification of any of the articles of this Declaration“.
Almost always where the CDHRI refers to human rights, it makes a qualification that those rights must be exercised in accordance with Sharia. Thus, Article 22 restricts freedom of speech to those expressions of it that are not in contravention of the Islamic law
The CDHRI has been criticized for falling short of the international human rights standards by not upholding the fundamentality of freedom of religion.[3]
Article 5 prohibits to impose any restrictions on marriage stemming from “race, colour or nationality”, notably excluding religion from the list, so that men and women may be prevented from marrying on the basis of their religion.
Similarly, CDHRI is criticized as not endorsing equality between men and women; moreover, it is accused of affirming the superiority of men.[4]
In the Article 6, women are guaranteed equal dignity, but not equality in other matters. The article also puts upon the husband the responsibility to maintain welfare of the family, while no similar obligation is placed upon the wife. Finally, it makes no mention of the widespread practice of having multiple wives in some Islamic countries.
Adama Dieng, a member of the International Commission of Jurists, criticized the CDHRI. He argued that the declaration gravely threatens the inter-cultural consensus, on which the international human rights instruments are based; that it introduces intolerable discrimination against non-Muslims and women.
He further argued that the CDHRI reveals a deliberately restrictive character in regard to certain fundamental rights and freedoms, to the point that certain essential provisions are below the legal standards in effect in a number of Muslim countries; it uses the cover of the “Islamic Shari’a (Law)” to justify the legitimacy of practices, such as corporal punishment, which attack the integrity and dignity of the human being.
————————————————
This is evidence that no muslim on earth wants to be considered equal to any non muslims, all muslim countries SIGNED the above paper, while western countries signed the “normal” declaration of human rights by UN.
Everything else that faisal tries to say is MUSLIM PROPAGANDA.
Islam=disease; inoculate with education
The conditions of what the west calls a crushing economic depression is what the mohammedan block calls normal living.
=============
The scientific, technical , political and economic advances of the western industrial revolution are what have made the luxuries and marvels of modern living possible.
=============
The mohammedan block is productively impotent. They seem to be incapable of inventing or producing things of value.
=============
The western poor enjoy luxuries that the mojority of the mohammedan block will never be able to afford.
=============
Without the western technologies and industries that produce the machines that use the oil, the western technologies and skills for getting the oil out of the ground, and the western economies that trade in the oil and its applications, the mohammedan block would be altogether impoverished.
The oil would sleep undiscovered and unused under the ground. The people, all the people, would be poorer than sub-saharan Africa.
By any reasonable standard, that oil is western property!
The local mohammedans are non-participants, bystanders.
That the mohammedans hold the oil hostage simply by walking around on top of it is purely accidental.
Why the west has chosen to pay ransom for the oil, rather than just asserting their right to it is also a foolish accident of history.
If the need for that oil is ever diminished, well, I think the likely results are pretty obvious …
And if taking the oil ever gets cheaper than paying the ransom, well …
Faisal:
“The Hamas is not fighting Israel because they are Jewish.”
This is taken directly from the Hamas covenant:
“The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
“The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).”
Not only is it in the Hamas covenant, but it is touted as a direct quote from “Allah”. Like I said, Faisal, you are a compulsive liar. One of the best things about being Jewish, though, is that antisemites like yourself are without exception liars, nitwits, misf*cks and born losers. You don’t have the guts or honesty to own up to your own failures and shortcomings so you blams everything on the Joooos.
This in from American Congress for Truth (ACT) – A Joke with an element of truth
What happens when a fly falls into a coffee cup?
The Italian – throws the cup, breaks it, and walks away in a fit of rage.
The German – carefully washes the copy, sterilizes it and makes a new cup of coffee.
The Frenchman – takes out the fly, and drinks the coffee.
The Chinese – eats the fly and throws away the coffee.
The Russian – Drinks the coffee with the fly, since it was extra with no charge.
The Israeli – sells the coffee to the Frenchman, the fly to the Chinese, drinks tea and uses the extra money to invent a device that prevents flies from falling into coffee.
The Palestinian – blames the Israeli for the fly falling in his coffee, protests the act of aggression to the UN, takes a loan from the European Union to buy a new cup of coffee, uses the money to purchase explosives and then blows up the coffee house where the Italian, the Frenchman, the Chinese, the German and the Russian are all trying to explain to the Israeli that he should give away his cup of tea to the Palestinian.
Jewish Israel and Catholic Lebanon constitute a geographic interruption of mohammedan hegemony in the middle east, and block mohammedan control of the east coast of the Mediterranean.
Let me repeat the critical point for anybody that might have missed a detail:
Jewish Israel and Catholic Lebanon block mohammedan control of the east coast of the Mediterranean.
The mohammedans are banking on the idea that traditional European anti-semitism will keep all attention focused on Israel — during which time the takeover of Lebanon can be completed.
With Lebanon completely in mohammedan hands, Israel is all the more accessible and with it uninterrupted control of the Mediterranean east coast.
Think geographically and militarily:
Take a look at the map sometime. Look at Turkey, Kosovo and Albania and then think Greece.
Then look at Israel, Lebanon, Cyprus, Turkey and Kosovo and Albania and then think Greece.
And while you’re thinking about Greece have a casual gander at Sicily and Tunisia. Then think shipping.
At least with respect to the world’s media companies and academic elites the strategy has been working quite nicely.
When was the last time anybody rushed to help the Lebanese Catholics? When was the last time they were even mentioned in the news?
Everybody is obsessed with the proverbial, mythical, traditional awfulness of the scary booga-booga JOOOOZ!
It’s called 3 card monty.
Think globally:
Israel also serves to distract the world’s attention from other jihaddi battle fronts such as:
* Southern Thailand
* Kashmir
* Nigeria
* Sudan
* Indonesia
** dozens of other places in Europe
** dozens of places in India
… just to name a few off the top of my head.
Who do you know that is worried about the murder of Buddhist Thai farmers? Who is raising money to send aid to their families?
The next time some troll goes off on a tear about Israel think Thailand.
Like I said before, the West should invent a technology to use HATE to fuel their cars, which they have in ample supply. Let me update you on some historical facts. The whole western scientific progress is based on foundations provided by the Arab Muslims.
-Your numerals are known as Arabic numerals, otherwise you were stuck with I II III IV V VI …… (try putting decimals on Roman numerals.)
-The first detailed anatomy of the human body was documented by Arab Muslims.
-The first surgery was conducted by Arab Muslims.
-The Solar System and various stars were studied and documented by Arab Muslims at a time when Europe was in an era called the Dark Ages.
I can keep going on with Muslim inventions in Science and Technology.
The Hadeeth you have quoted by Gary is actually a prediction of things to come. We Muslims have never hated Jews. In fact, the Palestinian Muslims welcomed Jews with open arms when they started moving to their areas. However, when the Palestinians were driven out of their homes, they were driven to the wall and had no choice but retaliate. Their existing shanty towns are still bombed on a regular basis. Their children are targeted and killed. What other reaction can you expect from them.
We muslims are definitely not anti-semites. We love and respect the Prophets of Bani-Israel. There was a war between the Palestinians and the Israelis thouands of years ago in which there was a fight between Hazrat Daud (A.S.), known as David in your books and Goliath, a Philistine. Hazrat Daud (A.S.) killed Goliath with a sling shot. If the Palestinian Muslims were anti-semites, they would have hated Hazrat Daud (A.S.) for inflicting that loss. But we Muslims, wether Arab or Non-Arab love and respect Hazrat Daud (A.S.) Further, we hate Goliath and his band of pagan Philistines.
The Muslims today are sitting on innumerable resources. Even if there is a technology invented in which oil is not used as a fuel, we Muslims are sitting on mountains of gold. Al-hamdu-lillah, we can keep giving handouts to the west for centuries to come. However, western greed is forcing this war on us. Even in this war, we muslims do not have the will to fight. In fact we are powerless. The western imposed WORLD WAR III will not be between Muslims and Christians. It will not be a religous war. This war is going to be a fight for resources between various non-Muslim world powers. We muslims will be mere spectators in this war, however will take the major brunt of it as it is going to be fought on our lands.
Finally, I would like to say, open the ventilators of your mind. Dont deny what is crystal clear. Take out hate from your hearts. Fill your hearts with the message of love given by Hazrat Isa (A.S.) (Jesus Christ).
If you see human rights abuses anywhere, condemn them. If I see human rights abuses in my society, I condemn it and never try to justify it.
The problem with things like this is that they do not provide an action plan that directly deals with what is alleged to be the real problem. For instance, what is our defense department supposed to do? Declare war on all Muslim states? Well, good luck with that. Begin a state run international propaganda campaign against Islam of the sort that Muslim states do against Christianity and Judaism? Well, try it for about 25 years (or even 2.5 days) and let me know how it works out.
And what should our domestic policy be? Even the bare minimum, which would be to end immigration by all Muslims, would be problematic. Why? Because it is unconstitutional. You can quote all the Koran verses that advocate killing non – Muslims and taking over the world that you want, there is no amendment, no federal law, no precedent that supports blanket denial of immigration based solely on religion. Had there been, it would have most certainly been used against Roman Catholics and Jews. And what of the millions of Muslims already here? Do we expel them? Do we seriously inhibit their freedom of assembly, movement, expression, worship, etc.? Again, that is ILLEGAL. Further, all of the Koran citing would actually harm your case, because you would be claiming that mere adherence to the religion in and of itself makes one a clear and present danger when juxtaposed against the reality that there have been far more incidents of domestic terror committed by angry white males (Oklahoma City, Eric Rudolph, the Unabomber, Columbine) than by Muslims.
The truth is that things like this book and sites like Jihadwatch are no practical help because they advocate no solutions either in domestic or foreign policy, either national defense or national security. All they do is promote chauvinistic attitudes towards Muslims and castigate those who do not share them.
The Jihadwatch types conveniently ignore that the only real way to combat the internal threat is to change our laws. Why? Because if we change our laws, we abandon being a free society that promotes liberty, religious freedom, and equal treatment under the law. And they also ignore that there is no real way to combat the external threat, the fact that over a billion Muslims have the temerity to exist. So there is good news coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Whoop tee doo. What about all of the other Islamic states, some of whom have much stronger militaries, and many of whom are a lot more vital economically and strategically.
If your goal is to get the media, the government, the left etc. to abandon its political correctness towards Muslims, well fine. But there will still be millions of Muslims in this country and a billion Muslims worldwide, and there will be nothing that a person who chooses to harbor the mentality “Muslim = threat” can do to change that fact.
faisal the liar
“arabic” numerals were invented by hindus, then you mohameddans stole them as you usually do
what was the job of your made up deity faisal? he was robbing jewish CARAVANS, you muslims had no jobs, no capabilities, no inventions, you had to steal from others.
The first beheading of jews was made by your pedoprophet, faisal, remember, your mohamed caravan robber and child molester beheaded a tribe of jews for his personal silly reasons.
Who killed your pedo-prophet faisal? a blessed jewish woman and we will always be grateful to that jewish woman
faisal, your muslim countries are the bottom of the list for literacy rate, standard of living, condition of women and children, if you are so rich so much that you have to give “free handouts” to the west, why your people is fleeing the islamic paradises full of poverty and disease?
what a deluded bunch of idiots you are.
“Do we seriously inhibit their freedom of assembly, movement, expression, worship, etc.? Again, that is ILLEGAL. ”
GERALD, do you think freedom of assembly is granted to Ku klux klan and nazi supporters?
I believe it is not. Inside mosques they do even worse than the worst nazi organization and ku klux klan put together.
When you plan to have people revolting against the state, the state has the rights to protect itself.
Drop your rose tinted glasses, mohameddanism is not a religion, it’s a fanatic political cult no different than nazism
Religious tolerance/freedom does not equate to weakness/vulnerability, or dominance/supremacy. If Islam/muslims had continued with their sciences, there would not be the overwhelming intolerance and ignorance that is their way of life today. Until respect for self and others is taught and believed by muslims, they shall be doomed to destroy themselves along with their mushrikun.
Gerald Ball,
You are mistaken. I respect your concern about preserving the integrity of American freedoms, but you are wrong on a number of factual issues. I recommend that you spend some time verifying the factual assertions on which you base your logic.
First off, a word on behalf of Jihad Watch. Spenser’s site is dedicated to promulgating factual knowledge about what is actually expressed in the:
** Basic texts of mohammedanism (koran, sura, hadith)
** The main stream judicial interpretations of those texts
… and, the actions taken by mohammedans to implement those ideas (in law, culture and warfare), and the popularity of those around the world today.
The commentors on the site are a mix, ranging from the scholarly and expert, to the occasional loopy crank and everything in between.
Spenser’s arguments, however, are completely well documented, logically presented, and mostly irrefutable.
So far as your facts are concerned:
It is not unconstitutional to block a given group from entry to the US. That is a matter of immigration law, regulation and practice.
Catholics and Jews have been blocked from entry at various times, specifically because they were Catholics and Jews. It may have been unappealing or even cruel, but it wasn’t unconstitutional.
Large scale immigrations to America have never been smooth and trouble free.
Government run propaganda programs (in the US) are an historical commonplace. Some fail, some work. Some are overt, some are covert. Some have good results, some don’t.
There are gov’t run propaganda programs which are pro-mohammedan operating right now! It is a terrible mistake, and one which needs to be reversed ASAP!
Your contention that “angry white males” have committed “far more incidents of domestic terror” is just plain silly, and I suspect, given your wording, that you haven’t come to that conclusion on your own by reviewing the facts.
One does have to set a time frame and geographic frame to discuss the issue though.
If we are talking about America during the post-Vietnam period the contention is simply absurd.
If we extend the period to include the activities of the KKK since the civil war, there’s a little more to work with, but America has stomped, defanged, discredited and marginalized the clan — practices that we should be applying to the jihaddis and their preachers right now.
Even so, it’s a safe bet that the casualties suffered at the hands of the jihad dwarf the casualties suffered at the hands of the Klan at its height. (i.e. 9/11 vs Missisippi lynchings).
Be that as it may, our problem now is the jihaddi, not some toothless cretin in a pillow case hat.
(Ever notice how scum like to dress up in funny costumes with masks? Have a gander at photos of a Hamas parade some time.)
=========
There are a wide variety of other measures that can be implemented, including:
* Barring the Saudis from funding schools or NGO’s.
* Thoroughly vetting and monitoring mohammedan chaplans in the armed services and jails.
* Monitoring the mosques.
* Defunding University programs run by stealth jihaddists.
* Montioring and barring the inclusion of jihaddi propaganda from K-12 textbooks and curricula. (A growing problem)
* Cutting down on academic admissions from hostile mohammedan nations.
* Purging pro-jiihad influences from federal agencies.
* Engaging more deeply with language and culture saavy dissidents, eg. Assyrians, Copts, Kurds, Lebanese Catholics, apostates, etc… (and dare I say it, even Israelis, especially Druse and Bedouins)
And the list goes on.
There’s plenty we can do.
Cheer up. Wise up. Don’t be a sap.
“GERALD, do you think freedom of assembly is granted to Ku klux klan and nazi supporters?
I believe it is not.”
Your beliefs are 100% wrong. Ku Klux Klansmen and Neo – Nazis are allowed freedom of speech, assembly and organization. Now while such groups are heavily monitored by the FBI and similar (reportedly there are more FBI informants in the KKK than actual Klansmen) they are still perfectly free to do whatever they choose so long as they do not break the law. The only restrictions that have ever been placed on them is laws limiting their ability to indulge in cross burnings and laws against wearing their hoods in public. Federal court decisions have even protected the right of KKKers and Neo – Nazis to hold marches and demonstrations, and the only thing that hinders them is the hoops that city governments put them through in order for them to get a permit.
So sorry, the government can’t do a thing to prevent KKKers, Neo – Nazis, “Christian” Identity, or any other sort from assembling. They couldn’t even do the same with the Black Panthers, the Nation of Islam or other radical groups back in the 50s and 60s when the legal precedents and the public mood was much more supportive of police and government tactics. The only way the government got rid of the Nation of Islam and Black Panther threats was by infiltration. And the number of Nation of Islam and Black Panther types at their height? Once you get past the poseurs, maybe 150,000 combined. There are a lot more Muslims in this country than that.
Also, I have to tell you … think about where this could lead. Say we start declaring Islam, or even merely the Islamic ideologies and speech that we don’t like, to be a threat and taking government action against it as a result. Do you honestly think that it would stop at Islam? Pass the law, set the precedent, and the left will immediately start using it to go after conservative speech, Christian speech, you name it.
I say deal with the Muslims that are actually criminals, terrorists, etc. and leave the rest alone. Of course, I have the same attitudes regarding Christians, Jews, Mormons, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, Dallas Cowboys fans, etc. that are criminals and terrorists.
We stomped the German Bund and interned the Japanese during WWII and it didn’t lead anywhere except to victory and peace.
So far as dealing with the terrorists and leaving the rest alone is concerned, that’s the point. There’s no practical way to tell them apart until after it’s too late. Most of the recent terrorist activity, of which the mohammedan doctors trying to bomb a British airport in Britain is a prime example, has been conducted by people who looked absolutely normal to their neighbors and friends.
The only common denominator has been mohammedanism.
But I tell you what. If someone starts promoting a “religion” that makes a virtue of assassinating Gerald Ball and his friends and family in particular, I’ll do my best to see to it that they are extended every benefit of every doubt.
I don’t feel so welcoming toward people who make a virtue of trying to assassinate the rest of us.
There are none so blind as those that will not see.
Mary Madigan and all others looking at this with a Western point of view. It’s quite simple really. In Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi (the Enlightened One)will stride the earth (Sunni) or return (Shi’a) and establish an Islamic Caliphate by conquest. Muslims and converts will be saved and all others will die. After this is accomplished, Jesus will return and establish justice. He will break the cross and destroy Christianity. Anyone who dies in achieving the Caliphate will be rewarded in Heaven. This is espoused by the Wahabis and Ahmadinejad. There are no alternativs, no amendments, no grounds for negotiations. This is it. Like the Communists however, they will make alliaces and promises, and truces, but these will not be adhered to, they will only be a means to the end. If you doubt this, you do not understand Islamic ideology.
I think WILLIAM has it pretty well summed up; The West should see the advantage in adopting an “Islamic Type” philosophy where The West eradicates all muslims and we shall be rewarded with everlasting peace and prosperity on EARTH.
gerald
“Your beliefs are 100% wrong. Ku Klux Klansmen and Neo – Nazis are allowed freedom of speech, assembly and organization. Now while such groups are heavily monitored by the FBI and similar (reportedly there are more FBI informants in the KKK than actual Klansmen) they are still perfectly free to do whatever they choose so long as they do not break the law.”
last time i checked, there are far more non-muslims groups blamed for hate speech than muslim groups. THere is a lot of double standards here, islam promotes hates speeck and for your informations many EU countries effectively ban and restrict Nazi groups. In this regard, I prefer this approach and hope that it will be applied to muslims as soon as possible.
gerald
“Do you honestly think that it would stop at Islam? ”
it will stop islam in our own countries, which is still better.
You claim that the biggest problem is “terrorists” and criminals, I think the opposite, while a terrorist can kill or maim 200-3000 or whatever number of people, it’s surely less dangerous than the MILLIONS who are working to establish sharia law in our laws. Sooner than you think you will find yourself with islam having a preferential treatment than the other creed or secularism.
Sooner than you think you will find laws implemented than favour muslim people over any other non muslim.
How do you explain to me the situation that is there in ANY muslim country (I mean countries with a 51% of muslim population or even relative majority like 40%), they start implement sharia law, first in some provinces, then in the whole state.
Look at lebanon. Up till the 80s the majority was christian and lebanon was the switzerland of the middle east. Then demographic changed, many christian lebanese left the country because intolerance from muslims was growing proportionately to their numbers. The only politicians killed are christians, the only places bombed or burnt are christian areas.
De facto Lebanon is another muslim cesspool, only thanks to demographics, they put muslims in the key positions (courts, parliament, media) and they control the country.
I do not believe those muslims are all “terrorists” but one thing is for sure, their goal was to drive out any other non-muslim or reduce them to second class citizens with no influence.
Look at this pattern repeated EVERYWHERE muslim went and from a minority became majority. Doesn’t this tell you something? how do you explain it, since you believe the only problem is with active terrorists?
Terrorists can be 5% of the whole population, but the remaining 95% silently push for a sharia/jihad agenda through other means.
The 95% are the most dangerous, at least the 5% you know who you are dealing with.
Make this simple test, ask any muslim if they would like to have sharia law in the west. Consider that they will lie to you in saying that they do not want it, but what they really mean is that they do not want it unless they are the majority or relative majority, there will be NOBODY among them that will accept islam as a cult equal to others, in their mind islam will be always superior and they want us to recognize its superiority.
Even when they tell you that they love jesus and mary, it’s a joke of words, they tell you they love prophet jesus and when you tell them it’s jesus, son of god, they call you blasphemous.
Respect for them is a one way street, equality and “live and let live” is a western concept they do not subscribe.
They ask you to submit or convert, the third option is to die or disappear.
Islam is the only cult that seek for world domination. No other cult has this objective.
And Adding one line to my previous post, Germany banned scientology therefore at least in some countries there are laws to ban pseudo-religious cults.
Gerald, we all know, everything would be a lot more easy if we didn’t depend on them for oil, if this was any other cult deemed dangerous not connected with any resource we need, we would have kicked them long ago.
Where there is a will, there is a way, it is possible to restrict their rights if not ban them altogether.
And remember, NOT because of “terrorism”, stealth jihad is far more dangerous.
I encourage everyone who is concerned about this issue to go to ACT! for America ( http://www.actforamerica.org/ ) and become involved by joining a local chapter or starting a chapter if one is not local to your area.
Muslims are going from minority to majority in every country because it is the TRUTH. Study Islam with an open mind. Open the ventilators of your minds. Leave bigoted thinking and study every faith without any prejudice. The most important thing is stop HATING. I am a muslim, and I love Jews, Christians, Hindus, Atheists and any person of any other faith. There is no reason to hate. I see alot of hate in writings of most people over here. I do not know why. After all we are all humans. We have to share this Earth. Why hate.
Your website mentions, “especially when, as in the case of the 50,000-100,000 American Muslims now living in polygamous arrangements, they violate national laws?” but do you have any idea how many Americans are presently living out of wedlock? Must be at least that number and I would guess more.
That is not only against American laws but, more importantly, against God’s law. We should at least be even handed when we discuss such issues.
Thank you.