Specter of the RINO to Haunt GOP No More
Arlen Specter’s announcement that he is switching from the Republicans to the Democrats may have come as a shock, but it shouldn’t. The writing was on the wall for some time — recently illustrated by his vote for the “stimulus” boondoggle and initial support for “card check,” or, as I like to call it, “vote to join a union or regret it.” His 2008 rating by the American Conservative Union — 42 — certainly wasn’t much to write home about, although I’m sure he enjoyed the fawning of the press whenever he voted as a good “moderate” should. “Moderate Republicans” are favorites of the liberal press — until they stop being moderate for one reason or another. Just ask John McCain.
Specter’s change of heart comes on the heels of recent polls that put him well behind GOP primary challenger Pat Toomey. Within his “resignation” statement is a most telling passage:
I am unwilling to have my twenty-nine-year Senate record judged by the Pennsylvania Republican primary electorate.
In other words, Pennsylvania Republicans can suck it — Specter’s loyalty is to his own political hide. If he was really confident about his record and his popularity at home, he would gladly take on Toomey in the primary. It’s all about keeping his job.
Isn’t this the kind of guy we say we’re tired of in Washington?
Often described as a RINO (Republican in Name Only) on the right, Specter’s departure isn’t exactly being mourned in conservative circles, but fellow “moderates” are circling the wagons. Ringleader David Frum considers the defection some sort of catastrophic event:
For years, many in the conservative world have wished for an ideologically purer GOP. Their wish has been granted. Happy?
Let’s take this moment to nail some colors to the mast. I submit it is better for conservatives to have 60% sway within a majority party than to have 100% control of a minority party. And until and unless there is an honored place made in the Republican Party for people who think like Arlen Specter, we will remain a minority party.
Honored place? What’s so honorable about voting for a bill that will bankrupt our nation and put our children and grandchildren into hock before many of them are even born? Or bailing out the auto industry instead of allowing the market to separate the good eggs from the bad?
And Sen. Olympia Snowe from Maine wasn’t surprised at his move. Perhaps she’s not far behind?
GOP leaders, however, were taken by surprise, which either proves that Specter truly kept his intentions a secret until the last minute or that the Beltway Republicans are completely out of touch with the Republican base. I don’t know about you, but I’m going with the latter.
We hear a lot about “moderate Republicans” and how we should honor and respect them and make room in the “big tent.” But what about those “moderate Democrats” and their big tent? Last time I recall a prominent Democrat bucking the party line, he was defeated in the primary but, due to his overall popularity in a state with more independents than Republicans or Democrats, was elected as an independent. Democrats didn’t make much room in the tent for Joe Lieberman, did they? And his party had to welcome him back into the caucus, even if it wasn’t with open arms, if they were to hold on to their slim majority in the Senate.
If you’re going to act like a Democrat, you might as well be one. Will the real Arlen Specter please stand up? It looks like he has. And fortunately for Pennsylvanians, they’ll be able to vote for the real Arlen Specter next November instead of the pasteboard image that’s been propped up for years.
The question on everyone’s lips now is, facing a similar primary challenge, will John McCain follow suit?
I see him working closelly with Pelosi, Reid and more importantly Barney Pork Frank
What a super team.
As a Pennsylvania conservative, I have never voted for Arlen Specter and am not sorry to see him ally himself in deed, as well as word, with the leftists.
The people I feel sorry for are those Pennsylvania Republicans and conservatives who have voted for him in the past. They deserve better than to have him turn his back on them, even though his votes rarely help Republican causes.
The words turncoat and traitor are too good to waste on his ilk. He’s not worth my efforts at writing this post. But I’m doing it anyhow.
I am glad he is gone, now if we can get rid of the rest of the RINOs maybe we can get rid of that persistent stink of Marxism that has been wafting around the Party.
Great article! I would suggest that McCain follow suit (and take his daughter with him). Out with the RINO’s! I do find it very telling that the Liberals are all now screaming that the GOP is losing all of it’s “moderates” thus proving that anyone left must surely be a radical right-winger. Yeah, sure, whatever. More “journalistic” research by our savvy MSM? I say let them wallow in their stupidity and continue swinging further leftward, thus ensuring a decisive victory for ANYONE with a pulse come 2012.
Good riddance. Remember, Specter was a member of the goon squad of Senate mediocrities that lynched (“Borked”) Robert Bork in 1987. Later describing one of his exchanges with Specter in The Tempting of America, Bork made it clear that, in spite of the high opinion he had of himself, Specter was not one of the sharpest tools in the shed.
Fear nought, conservatives! Compromised idiots are easy to lose and will feel much more at home with liberals anyway. Hasta la vista, Arlen!
What is scarier is (supposedly) normal, sane people in absolute glee over the idea of single party rule. Especially since they don’t agree with their own party platform on all the issues. The “politics-as-sport” mentatlity where opposition must be crushed has fully taken hold. Ideas don’t matter, only that “your guy” beats the “other guy”.
We are now ONE seat away from a complete and unstoppable radical regime.
Now more than ever we need to hear the voice of honest Democrats in Congress. Don’t laugh. I cannot even think for a second that ALL the Democrats agree with the socialist-commie-subversive ideas of this administration.
It is now time for the honest and intelligent Congressmen to stand up.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
It ain’t rocket surgery. Democrats win elections when conservatives stay home or vote third party on election day. Put a true conservative on the ballot and the conservative voters turn out in droves and defeat the Democrats. The problem is the Republican party is full of self-serving professional polititions trying to cheat this basic formula.
It is unrealistic to expect total agreement on all issues. At best, a political party can pragmatically demand no more than roughly an 80% compliance rate. Was Arlen Specter even on board 50% of the time? There is simply a point where its preferable the individual leaves the party?
200,000 people already left the Republican party in PA. Specter just makes 200,001. Get used to it.
The applicable thought regarding Specter’s defection is ‘the average IQ of both parties has now increased’. I just can’t recall who originally coined the phrase and the circumstance to which it applied.
Everyone is quick to dismiss Specter as a RINO, but no one wants to think about what his “defection” means for the GOP.
This means that in addition to all the moderates and independent voters who have fled the Republican party, even GOP congresspeople are now realizing that the “R” after their name will only ruin their chances of getting re-elected.
This also means that once Franken gets seated, the Democrats have a filibuster-proof majority.
Can we put the nails in the coffin yet?
I left the party years ago….tooo conservative with social issues/jesus…Even the man the republicans use as an example of a “GREAT REPUBLICAN” Teddy Roosevelt, left the party. It is again the party that protects the “ROBBER BARONS”
oops forgot the “Z” in sized
I’ve said this in other threads here, but i’ll say it again. Trying to spin this defection as good for republicans is both silly and sad. I’ll go ahead and quote a republican, al rodgers, to make my point more clear. “Notice to Republicans: Arlen Specter changing parties is good for the Democrats and President Obama and bad for us. If you think otherwise, put down the Ann Coulter book and go get some fresh air.” This did not help you. Becoming even more ideologically rigid will not help you. That’s the reason that republican party affiliation is at all time lows. And as for the argument that democrats run liberal primary candidates against lieberman or others, it completely misses the point. We can still win those races in the general election. Its not pushing out a moderate who can win to replace him with an extremist ideologue candidate who will lose the seat to the opposing party.
So as you continue down the path to destruction, whistling all the way, remember this moment. Remember how a prominent member of your party was forced out, denounced your leadership and you all said “good riddance. this will help us.”.
#4 AthinkingPerson you don’t sound as if you think very much or very often. Your line, “Great article! I would suggest that McCain follow suit (and take his daughter with him),” was parroted verbatim from Rush Limbaugh. You guys (conservatives) are on life support and don’t realize your plug is being pulled.
#12 Pastor of Muppets: Again, you’re buying what the MSM is selling you. It HAS been discussed what his “defection” means for the GOP. Please read comments #1-#11 and the other (three I think) articles on PM and comments that follow. We’re HAPPY about it. It means that there can be no more PASS THE BUCK out of the Liberal left administration. It means you OWN IT ALL. It means that come 2012 the RINO’s will be gone and the GOP will be as it should be with the Democratic party looking like the Liberal-Socialist-Military hating party that they truly are.
Specter voted as a Democrat before he left. What does it matter now? I’d also like factual confirmation of your assumption…”even GOP congresspeople are now realizing that the “R” after their name will only ruin their chances of getting re-elected.”
#16 Praetorian: Verbatim from Rush Limbaugh? Not sure how I did that but I’m not surprised that we agree on that fact. Cool!
#12 Pastor of Muppets, you are correct in your assumption. However, I would add to that the discomfort many republicans feel but didn’t want to leave the party because they weren’t entirely comfortable with Democrats either. Well, now these moderate voters have the justification they were looking for. Being identified as a republica/conservative has become synonymous with a diagnosis of gonorrhea. No one want’s it.
McCain? I thought he already did his part. It’s not like he actually tried to win, is it?
“It is again the party that protects the “ROBBER BARONS”
Huh? Are you saying this with a straight face? You obviously have not done much study concerning the New Deal era. Democrats and “moderate” Republicans inherently advocate corporatism. They prefer to work with large corporations than the smaller companies. It makes it easier for them to control the economy. If you are truly against the “robber barons”—then you should be a strong supporter of conservative Republican candidates.
“The question on everyone’s lips now is, facing a similar primary challenge, will John McCain follow suit?”
..funny you should mention that. I just received an e-mail from Sentator McCain pleading for monetary support (I am in California) after running down the luke-warm or downright fraudlulent list of what he’s done for me.
It was a monumental joke and I told him so. (read: “Buzz off, John!”)
I suspect that those who gleefully post here about getting out the coffin nails and the dwindling GOP do not take into account the seethign rage building for the socialist agenda that folks like Specter will frolick with.
I ain’t being no optimist, but that pendulum will swing back and i suggerst that you do not stand too near the pit, old son.
Unthinking person – So Rush IS pulling your strings Good to see you admit you are a wingnut parrot
There’s only one word the comes to mind “self-serving.” Specter’s worried about his legacy, his tenure in the Senate, his job. To hell with everyone/everything else (e.g., his constituents, the GOP that he’s been a member of for so many years, values, ideals, etc.). He is the poster boy for what’s wrong with Congress: it’s all about me, screw the Nation. Hey, that’d make for an interesting Sunday morning political analysis show: Screw the Nation.
#23 The Shadow: Did I hear a grunt?
Now is the time to flush John Mcstain and all the other RINO’s.
Glad to see the garbage kicked to the curb.
My goodness, the Democrats had already had the supermajority, with Spectre, Snowe and Collins.
The sole reason Spectre changed parties is to protect his own sorry political skin. Now the people of PA. need to make weasel boy pay by electing Toomey in the general, since Spectre doesn’t want to be judged by the people that have supported him all these years; fine, I say. Let him be rightly judged as the turncoat he is by the whole electorate.
FYI…It’s facts like this that will bring TeleBama down with no help from the GOP or Independents.
Just came across the AP wires:
“House Democrats push through outline for Obama budget that funds president’s agenda, including health care — and boosts deficit to $17 trillion by 2014″
There goes your kids futures right down the toilet. Hope along with free health care for all TeleBama makes college free too because no one will have any money left to afford it.
IF, IF he survives the Democratic primary Republicans and conservatives will turn out in droves. He stabbed Bork in the back and failed to pull the trigger on Clinton during impeachment. YET he kept getting returned to the Senate. This is the thanks we get.
I hope the voters in Pennsylvania have the sense to understand that this repulsive old reptile is out for himself and couldn’t care less about the people he supposedly represents. Even if they decided to vote in a democrat I hope that they choose someone with at least SOME integrity and reject this fossil. It’s time to put him out to pasture, better yet make dog chow out of his hide.
SPECTER IS THE POSTER BOY FOR POLITICS TODAY
Time to put an end to career politicians.
http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2009/04/arlen-specter-perfect-case-in-point.html
What if Toomey wins? And then Specter wins? Any one remember Rick Santorum?
It’s only an end to the Republican Party, if conservatives allow it. RINOs are not conservatives, at least on social issues and those are the issues that will sink our country into debt beyond recovery.
Regardless of a filibuster proof senate, there are still conservatives within the Republican Party – somewhere, mostly outback in rural America. Too bad the politicians elected by us are not conservative enough to be anything but RINOs.
The Republican Party deserves what it’s getting because it’s being run by the good old boys of politics. Conservatives feel disenfranchised. There are few to none in congress who champion our causes. Michael Steele is a joke, as head of the RNC. He’s another of those good old RINO boys.
jack h, republicans and conservatives can turn out in droves all they want. it doesn’t matter because Pennsylvania and the nation have left the republican party in droves. Democrats have a 1.2 million voter advantage in PA and Obama won the state with 55% of the vote. This isn’t a story about Specter abandoning republican voters, its a story about him following them right out of the party. run whatever wingnut you want against whomever wins the democratic primary. We will win and you will lose. deal with it.
I’d expect nothing less from the Unicorn Killer’s best bud.
He was of no help to the Republican Party when he could have made a difference: he would not go along with a fillibuster of the Porkulus Bill. The vast majority of the $$$ get laid out there after 2010 and more than half of that money had nothing to do with economic stimulus anyway. He claims he went along with the President because he thought the economy was so dire it needed the stimulus. What stimulus, Arlen?
The Democrats on this thread are taunting us with accusations that we drove away a true Republican. That’s nonsense. Look at his voting record over the years. He was never a true Republican. He crossed over to the Republican Party just when the Carter administration was about to flushed down the toilet by the voters. This man is an opportunist, nothing more. I challenge you people to contradict that claim. Show me he was not an opportunist.
Case in point. He took campaign money from Comcast to go at the NFL like a pit bull because Comcast did not get the NFL game broadcast rights. He made an utter fool of himself over that faux pas, and even tried to blackmail the NFL about this by publicly excoriating the league over the allegations of the New England Patriots’ “spygate” thing. The man is just not serious intellectually about policy, or anything for that matter. He was a pig at the public trough. He kept getting re-elected by people who should have cast him aside a long time ago.
You Democrats should be happy about this, but you are not graceful winners. You now have a fillibuster proof Senate and you can do whatever you want. Instead of being gracious winners you come over here to a conservative blog to jab us because we’re happy he left the Republican Party. Humorless, joyless, and without a real grasp of the landscape, that’s what you people are. You don’t want just victory, you want our submission.
Yes you are all right. It’s very bad for the Republicans in the short-term (2 to 6 years). We now have a purely Democrat federal government – feels like in the backseat of a muscle car with a drunk 16-year-old driving.
In the long-term it is a good thing if conservatives can reconstruct the GOP as the party of American conservatives. People like Specter sullied the brand and muddied the water – making Republicanism a much harder sell. When Republicans were in control a mere six years ago, they failed to reform the tax code or entitlements, they expanded government instead of shrinking it, and generally acted like assholes – thanks to the Specter’s, McCain’s, and Snowe’s.
A conservative party will rise again and will eventually regain majority status. If the Rino’s leave the GOP, it will be the Republican party. If the conservatives leave the GOP, it will be wherever they end up. We didn’t always have these two parties.
Specter’s move is naked politics. He’s not so much a Democrat as he is a lifelong politician whose main concern is re-election.
But….this does not bode well for the Republican party or the conservative movement in general.
Specter may be called a rat for changing sides, but at least he’s smart enough to know the ship he was on is sinking. There is little if any future for GOP Senators in Pennsylvania as the urban areas now outweigh the conservative districts in voting clout. It is purely a matter of the math – Specter has served five terms because he understands electoral calculus, and takes moderate positions that generally offend everyone equally.
Specter is of course welcome in the Democratic party, as are his colleagues who also come to see the GOP for what it is – a severely damaged minority party, that will remain so for some time to come. Maine’s Senators could easily elect to turn Democrat, and McCain could even take the advice of commenters above and leave the GOP. More likely McCain would go independent or lead a third party IMHO.
None of this will be good for the GOP in the short term, and the only way it can be good in the long term is if the GOP learns from the defections and finds a way to be constructive rather than obstructive. Continued work to eliminate “RINO” members from the GOP will inevitably lead to a situation in which there are no Republicans at all. Ideological purity is simply too high a standard.
Peace.
DS
Fred has it right. Specter isn’t a loss as he never came through when it really counted (e.g. spending). Specter just got a lot less powerful, but he will keep his job. Without having to kow tow to the RINOs, Republicans will see if Reaganite message can still win elections.
fred:
I agree with you on one point, i am being a graceless winner. I am enjoying this immensely. I came here to watch the feckless bloggers try to spin defeat into victory and then point out their foolishness. But i am not embarrassed by this behavior because those still supporting the modern republican agenda and politicians are fools or worse. Your leadership has brought us to disaster with a pointless, illigitimate war in iraq, feckless and corrupt economic policies and a ignorant and anti-science stances on a wide range of issues. The party is dominated by racists, misogynists, homophones and liars and becoming more so as the sane abandon it along with specter. I was a republican myself until bush’s idiocy and lies made me re-examine the political landscape. But I don’t want your submission, just your agenda’s failure. And a few laughs at your expense. I think after 8 years of despair under bush and cheney, its a small thing to ask.
Ms. Meister:
“Let’s take this moment to nail some colors to the mast. I submit it is better for conservatives to have 60% sway within a majority party than to have 100% control of a minority party. And until and unless there is an honored place made in the Republican Party for people who think like Arlen Specter, we will remain a minority party.”
-intoned David Frum.
Oh, yes, that 60% control in the majority party really did a lot for conservatives, didn’t it?
Jobs still went offshore…that was an item the “moderate” Free-Traitors GOP wanted.
Illegal Immigration was still winked at…that was the Rockefeller/Country-Club set’s agenda for cheap domestic labor.
Industries were deregulated, (see above).
Taxes were lowered.
Groovy…but deficit spending skyrocketed, which is as impoverishing a measure as a tax is, (it just skims from the backside, instead of the front).
Now how much of the conservative agenda actually got realized?
Abortion? Prayer in Schools? Gun Rights?
Let’s forget the “conservative” and “moderate” labels for a minute, and call them what they REALLY are:
Upper-class republicans vs. Working-class republicans.
Arlen Specter’s comment takes on a whole new meaning when you look at it from that viewpoint.
The Upper-class privileged set got served notice last November that their Working class allies were fed up with providing the numbers to gain the offices, but were always at the back of the line for THEIR agendas.
And the Upper-class twits don’t like having their margin called one little bit. That’s why they sternly warn us about permanent minority status and whine about “broadening the tent”.
Hey, Rich Twits…look over at the Democrats. Are they not the EXACT same species of big-government, tax-and-spend statists opposed to American values that they were back in 1972?
Let THEM change.
Specter’s vote is indeed a good thing, and Franken will be a welcome addition, because with a supermajority, they are going to OWN the next two years…and EVERYTHING about it.
Which means they’d better hope for a string of absolute miracles to be delivered within an 18 month timetable.
And I don’t see that happening.
If things continue as such, the Republicans can turn out in droves all they want and they’ll have a tough time with Libertarian candidates. The far right religious kooks take over is almost total. This will not broaden Republican popularity, but narrow it to the point of near irrelevancy in most densely populated parts of the country.
Perhaps all this is merely the Republicans going through the stages of grief. However, I would think most Republicans out there would be bright enough to know that if you want to regain your place on the throne then you HAVE to broaden appeal to moderates and independents. Period. Underline. You don’t move right, you move to the center, because without new blood, you’re nothing but an empty party with a lot of hot air flowing.
Why is it people fail to usderstand the ebb and flow of politics…Penn is going to be intresting in a number of way…
1) Specter is not a sure win..remember unless the dem party comes down hard of the 2 or 3 other canidates to stay out Specter is gona have a fight in the primaries
2) Dont think that because Obama won penn that a specter or any other dam canidate is an automatic win..the 200,000 who switched to dem for the presidental election may switch back as specter was an issue with them as well
3) Specter’s line bout the party moving too far right is pure smoke and mirrors when the reality is he moved too far to the left..call him a moderate all you want doesnt change the fact
4) When the gop had a “progressive” as its presidential contender not because he wasnt to “moderate” as some think but because by and large the conservative base didnt want any..that base includes indies and republicans
5) Those saying the gop is dead are doomed to repeat history again…please look to Jimmy Carter as an example as the dems had a 61 vote majority in the senate and the gop was a “wasteland” and “out of touch” and out of power almost paraelling todays problem.
6) Dems shouldnt be throwing parties that Specter switched as you will discover he belongs to his own party..himself and may find out why the conservative base considered him a PITA.
7) However, with specter and possibly franken in congress giving the administration a filibuster proof majority I wouldnt clap yet as now the dems will no longer have any such blame to throw around and have to stand by their votes…should make for intresting theater like Barney Frank saying he never was a roadblock to fannie and freddie regulations when we have his record and video to prove otherwise…
kahner,
I don’t care if my comment here is removed by the moderators. Your above comment identifies you as an insolent a$$hole. There is nothing graceful or thoughtful about you. People like you are not serious thinkers. You’re just a bomb thrower come over here from the KosKidddies’ world.
You were never a Republican. If you had been your style would have been more sophisticated and your method of argumentation more subtle.
Arlen Specter has always been an opportunist. He disgustingly assisted Ira Einhorn, a celebrated leftist (claimed co-founder of earth day) on two occasions in order to avoid prosecution. As we all know, Einhorn fled the country and was later prosecuted in absentia for murder. He is now serving a life sentence.
Specter helped Einhorn, for one reason only, to curry favor with the elitist leftist in Philadelphia. Specter, as far as I’m concerned has never been a republican.
I get a good chuckle out of the obvious leftists who give advice to the GOP about how it has to be more moderate or it is marginalizing it’s self. It is the McCains and Arlen Benedicts who got them into this mess, with a healthy dose of George Bush thrown in for good measure. They have turned the GOP into a fuzzy finger painting with disasterous results.
The GOP needs to rid its self of the Sue Collins types. They are at best an unreliable vote, Specter included of course. They distort the image of the GOP. If the GOP ever wants to be something again it has to get away entirely from Democrat lite, especially on the issue of economics. The Liberals are going to make a complete hash of the economy if they have not already done so. The pain will get far worse, notice that today the shrinking of GDP was signifigantly worse than was predicted by most economists for the 1st quarter. American’s are going to tire of the liberals consistent under delivery in economic recovery. Because Democrats despise capitalism and free enterprise and want to treat it as something to be handcuffed and controled, the private sector will, at best, have sluggish job and wealth creation. In a year or two, maybe slightly longer the Democrats will no longer be creible on economic reovery.
The GOP would be wise to reform it’s self in the meantime and get rid of it’s dead wood. This is happening, the latest example being yesterday. Independents are going to be looking for an alternative to stagnant economic growth sometime in the next couple of years. If the GOP offers a clear, unmuddled, alternative it will have the chance to pick up signifigant support from dissatisfied Obama voters.
The economic slide will get worse. The Republicans should prepare themselves. Not being a member of the GOP, it will be interesting to see what they do. Since Reagan, with the exception of 1994, they have generally made a hash of opportunity themselves. My expectations are not high, but getting rid of Arlen and company who vote Democrat anyway, is a start.
kahner: Eight years of despair? Yeah, right. Whatever there kahner. Apparently you were up in your tree house during the last 8 years. Unfortunately for you and those who share your biased viewpoint, the “facts” as you present them do not wash. The “corrupt” politicians are Democrats (witness the tax cheats now enjoying the President’s cabinet). The “anti-science stances” are on the Democratic side (witness Gore who refuses to entertain ANY discussion from any scientist that doesn’t agree with him 100%). Witness the “liars, misogynists, racists and homophobes” on the Democratic side. Jeneane Garafolo. ‘nough said. Witness “feckless and corrupt economic policies” on the Democratic side. A pork filled budget that almost tripled President Bush’s? A projected deficit of 14 TRILLION by 2014? Yes. The Democrats are truly above par and a shining beacon on a hill. Laughable on it’s face. Enjoy your time in the sun and pray to God that ACORN can find all of the homeless, prostitutes and drug addicts to bus in on election day (I’ve heard they like to change addresses quite often).
Lastly, since you seem to derive pleasure from others “pain”, let us enjoy yours for a while….
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123690358175013837.html
Arlen Specter’s #1 Concern? Arlen Specter.
Losing him is no great loss for the Republican Party. He was a fake Republican and the other fakes like Olympia Snowe need to go.
Contrary to what the media wants us to believe, I think that Specter’s leaving is a good sign for the Republican Party. It means that the Republican Party is now moving back to its conservative roots – strong national defense and limited government spending.
Ask the people in New York who ran for their lives because of Obama’s plane and I bet you’ll find more people concerned about national defense these days.
Ask the people who attended the Tea Parties and you’ll find lots of voters who are angry about the wild spending going on in Washington.
I feel that the Republican Party has compromised too much with the RINOs which is why it has been hurt as a party. People like Specter should have been forced out of the party long ago.
The media has never been a friend of Republicans. They are a corrupt arm of the Democratic Party. If they say that going back to our conservative roots is bad, then, rest assured, the opposite must be true. The media (CNN, The New York Times, MSNBC, etc..) are the last people we should be listening to because they are as much a part of the problem as Obama, Pelosi and Reid are.
#43 Middleman: Please provide factual proof of your statement which follows…
“The far right religious kooks take over is almost total.”
The Liberals always spew this out and for once, I want to see where you get your facts that led you to this conclusion.
Read the polls on BO’s individual agenda items. The majority of Americans are against every one of them. The only people who support them are the liberal elite who want to be able to tell everyone else how to live and the people looking for a hand out. While Arlen will go liberal to improve his standing among the Democrats, I doubt that he would have actually stood by the GOP when the going got tough anyway.
If you are going to war, you need to know the people you are fighting with have your back, and will not stick a knife in it like ooooold Arlen did. He’s gone, its time to move on. BO will self destruct and have no one to blame but his socialist buds.
If the Demigods pass something stupid, some conservative States will need to go to court to prevent the federal Government from violating the State’s rights. That will throw a wrench in BO’s little machine.
fred:
haha. oh no, you called “insolent”! oh wait, that was the whole point of my post. i am being insolent, contemptuous and insulting. perhaps you don’t understand that you’re merely agreeing with what i already said. secondly, i’m not sure why being subtle in one’s argument is beneficial or desireable. if a point is obvious or an argument is simple, there is no need for subtlety. complexity and convolution in rhetoric for their own sake are nothing but vanity. clarity is the goal in speech and thought. and finally, your idea that somehow you know whether i was a republican is the essence of self centered conceit. would you also like to tell me about where i grew up, went to school and worked? could you remind me what i movie i watched last night? clearly you would know. idiot. (subtle enough for you?)
#17 AThinkingPerson – I’m glad you aren’t one of the ones calling Arlen names. To me the truth is that he was elected by the state, not the Republicans. If the state Republicans hated him so much all these years, and if they had the power to do so, they would have removed him by now. So, the state elected who they wanted (clearly including a fair amount of Democrat voters) and that’s the way it works. If he was so hated overall, him switching parties still wouldn’t keep him his job.
That the republicans are castigating him now just shows they simply tolerated him all this time, they didn’t even like him. Not to mention his party had already thrown him under the bus by pushing to get him out over the last election as well as planning on stabbing him in the back in the upcoming one (supporting the other R candidate again), so I don’t know why they have any moral right to claim that HE was the one who ‘abandoned’ them. They are doing the same thing to McCain so I don’t know why they should expect his support either (and probably Olypmia Snow as well, although I haven’t heard that yet). Total hypocrisy to stab someone in the back and then get all shocked and shaken when they react negatively to it. The centrist PA’ers kept electing him, they might continue to do so. As others have said, his party affiliation is moot anyway, as he will continue to vote as he always has regardless.
And when Franken joins, despite the numbers, they won’t likely have a filibuster proof majority in practice very often as I doubt Specter will support things like using procedural rules to avoid filibuster situations(he hasn’t supported that in the past, and stated yesterday he still finds that abhorent).
(as a side note, I think it sad the republicans are still fighting Franken’s election in the courts…while they have the right to appeals, it is looking like there is no chance of over-turning the recounts and they are just keeping their district from representation…political gamesmanship, but not what’s good about our political process)
The key argument is to go further right or more centrist? I still think the answer is to drop the social right fights for now as you lose other fiscal centrists (on both sides). Some say the party has gone left already, but from my socially left standpoint, I don’t see it. I still hear the socially right points loud and clear, and frankly that was McCain’s key mistake. He was the darling of the Republicans from a Democrat perspective prior to the election cycle and his overtures towards the far right cost him votes from those who really liked him (and those ppl were Democrats, not Republicans). Not sure he would have won if he played as left as he always had prior to then, but I really think he could have made serious inroads given Obama’s obvious negatives.
That said, we’ll take Specter gladly if you guys will take Murtha off our hands. That guy is a sleeze and gives all politicians, but mostly the Democrats, a horrid name.
Jack
athinkingperson:
i don’t feel like responding to most of your silly arguments, but i will agree that i am gaining pleasure from your pain. in fact, as i told fred, that was exactly the point of my post. so way to go. you apparently were able to read what i said, think for several minutes and then make the brilliant move of repeating it back to me. keep thinking, person. you’re doing a bang up job.
#50 AThinkingPerson – I assume where Middleman was going was that the Republicans seem to be booting moderate ones, and gleefully per the Specter talk, so that is essentially making the resultant nature of the part further to the right on average.
Which I think is wrong for them, personally. But then again, I’m talking social right being bad for them, not fiscal right(but the last few years of ‘fiscal conservatism’ from the Republicans left me wanting…)
Jack
Jack,
I think you present a thoughtful critique. I will dispute you on one issue however.
Bush and company never embraced fiscal conservatism. Bush did push his tax cuts through and I give him credit big time for that. He utterly failed to sell or impose fiscal restraint which was the other part of the equation. While he was good about free trade, he failed to clean up the corporate tax issue, thus rendering US business’ less competitive globally.He also increased the size of the federal government substantilly during his tenure, No Child Left Behind being but one example.
We have yet to have a a fully fiscal conservative approach to economics. If we ever do, you will see growth across the economy like we have not seen in this country since the 19th century. The rest of the world will have difficulty competeing, especially the Europeans.
Bush should get credit for 55 months of growth during war, I should add that as well. Primarily, however, he was a government spender,unfortunately for us.
In Connecticut, three very moderate Republicans were voted out during the last two cycles: Nancy Johnson, Rob Simmons and Chris Shays. When a moderate Republican is pitted against a Democrat they will lose every time.
Time to move on friends,we don’t want liberal republicans.
If you are going to war, you need to know the people you are fighting with have your back, and will not stick a knife in it like ooooold Arlen did.
The Republican Party has stuck a knife in my back on every one of my important issues.
1. Fiscal Responsibility.
2. Ending Drug Prohibition (which only enriches criminals – see #1)
We have two big government parties in America. One wants to use government for social control, the other wants to use it for economic control.
I guess I have my work cut out for me: destroy both parties.
Rick Santorum.
Do the leftist that are posting here actually believe that all of a sudden the American people have had an awakening, and become increasingly liberal or progressive? With the wild spending by the Democrats, it will not take long for conservative republicans to win voters back, that is if they look principled, and show leadership. The country remains 78% moderate/conservative and the voters are consistently fickled.
I am a strong believer that there would not be a democrat party without the mainstream media propping it up.
Steveg,
Nice and succinct at #61. The voters went for change and when they realize the Democrats can’t deliver prosperity, they will vote for change again.
I really can’t comprehend why the GOP is held to a completely different standard than the Dems.
Ideologically rigid? Have you seen who leads the Dems? They vote lockstep on damn near everything. The only bipartisanship recently has been a few brave Dems voting with the GOP.
Corruption? Has anyone in the MSM been paying attention lately? Jefferson, Harman, Feinstein, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd. If these guys were in the GOP all we would hear above the fold in the NYT is about the culture of corruption.
Extreme? Conservative philosophy is nearly identical to that of the Founders while the philosophy of the Left is closer to that of Marx. Just what about the Conservative agenda is objectionable? Limited government? Strong defense? Personal responsibility?
Liberals want to enslave us all to our fellow citizens via the federal government. Conservatives want to be left alone with maximum liberty.
If Liberals really believe in Big Government then I challenge them to send in more of their own money voluntarily instead of voting to support the robbery of their neighbors.
Greed? It is Liberals who are greedy. They want and demand government services paid for by everyone else.
Liberalism is the triumph of emotion over reason.
Liberalism is parasitic and dehumanizing.
Liberalism is the outward expression of white guilt.
Liberalism is counter to human nature.
Liberalism demands subordination of the individual to the collective and will crush those who get in the way of that end.
Liberalism is an excuse to live without discipline.
Liberalism is weakness of mind and spirit.
Specter was a Republican?
Living in PA I will say this – the Keystone state has had a tradition (Santorum aside) of electing moderates – either conservative Democrats (conservative for Dems at least) or Republicans who were more moderate. And this is the nature of this diverse state with large liberal urban centers in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, wide swaths of conservative rural areas and large suburban communities around the biggest cities.
Bottom line, the NATIONAL GOP political line isn’t working here at the STATE level here although it is fine in some communities. The party can either wake up and embrace a “states right’s” strategy that is more willing to tolerate local politicians deviating from the national platform or PA is a lost cause at the state level.
Eric,
That might be the best repudiation of American liberal thought I have ever read on this website. Specter fits right in too, especially the part about “weakness of mind and spirit”, and now he is one of them.
I dare any troll to come out and intellectually repudiate Eric. Remember, ad hominem attacks will only show the vacuosness of your counter argument, if you have one.
Eric, make sure you stay in the give and take. Very impressive.
All you people hammering nails in the coffin of the Republican party have a short memory. It was only 15 years ago when the Republican Revolution began after a big hoopla about Clinton being elected two years earlier, and not even 5 years since Dems took things over again. Now they have only had the WH and nearly complete control for 4 months, and still not actual complete control until Franken finishes his theft of the seat. They also stole the seat in Alaska. They cannot win straight up, but they will steal whatever they they need by whatever means possible. They barely won in NY recently. Their majority is shaky at best. The Democrats have been in bad straits before, as we are now. We will be back, purged of the infidels like Benedict Arlen, Snowe and Collins. We will make gains in 2010. Maybe not enough to stop bad legislation, but in 2012 we can take it all if we stick it out. Obama will flame out, the economy will crash, the middle east will explode, or we will be attacked again and Congress will abandon him like rats off a sinking ship. The MSM will stick it out purely for racial reasons. The TEA party attendees are quietly seething and planning revenge. We will be out in droves whereas the Obamaniacs will sit home starry-eyed in the smug knowledge then no one would possibly vote against their beloved fearless leader. We will ambush them. Wait for it.
AThinkingPerson,
Goldwater warned of it. Even Reagan warned of it. Are the Republicans main talking points these days less government? No, it’s abortion and morality. When the average American thinks Republican, they don’t think free markets. Speaking of free markets, I would have thought such advocates for unregulated business markets would be better salesmen and would find a pitch to tap new markets (i.e. undecided and unaffiliated voters). Republicans are crap at it.
Proof? I live in Texas, man. I just take a look around and listen a bit. You should do the same.
#56 Samizdat – I agree, Bush was never fiscally conservative. Tax cuts are fine (great) if you do the other side of it (i.e. cut my salary as long as you cut my costs). He also grew the government by a crazy amount, as you say.
I’d love to find a fiscal conservative (on either side of the aisle) who could cut cost/government and cut spending. No one has the guts to be a 1 term president and cut spending…it’s sad that we have to come to term limits that all coincide in order to cut spending, but frankly, everyone wants to get re-elected so that seems like a fading situation.
#57 Rosem – Did the Republican party help those candidates? They are funding the competitors to moderate Repulicans in several other locales in favor of further Right Republicans.
The Right is giving the dems the battleground on social issues…people don’t like giving up social liberties in favor of fiscal ones. How can I vote for tax cuts when black people are slaves (example). Unless the economy is as bad as it is.
People are ruled by the wallet…unless you can make the case that gays being married is more important than fixing the economy, you are going to lose. Now that the economy is bad, the social issues are out of mind, and anyone who brings it up looks like someone worrying about the color of the bedspread while the bedroom is on fire.
That they keep missing that is why they lose. Do you want to fight the “good fight” and lose, or do you want to win and do what you can? Continuing to fight the social right (i.e. National Organization for Marriage…who is almost as scandalous as the Perez Hilton crap) when you drive voters away is counter productive for the rest of us. Fiscal conservatives have a path forward, social conservatives are going to lose for a bit…if they want to drag the whole party down in the mean time they can try.
Jack
#63 Eric:
I join with Brother Samizdat in lauding your dissection.
Now take the next step.
They do all this for power, that is a given.
But who is it that supports them?
Have you ever heard the term “Privatize the Profits and Socialize the Losses?”.
Cultural working-class conservatives face one enemy with two faces:
The Wealthy we know…the Rockefeller/Country-Club Republican set…they represent the “Privatize the Profits” side of the coin.
The Bourgeoisie/Middle classes, who trend to Liberalism, represent the “Socialize the Losses” side of the same coin.
Accepting Liberal values is the “ticket-punching” to entry into the middle-class…this is why these values are so endemically proselytized in academia, since the upper-middle class jobs in the professions are reserved for those with post-graduate degrees. The “House Negroes” on the “Big Plantation” are hand-picked and long-vetted before they are allowed to use the servant’s entrance.
Supervisory jobs are reserved largely for the undergraduate degrees. You don’t need to be trusted as much to be an “Overseer of Field Hands”, since you aren’t going to have access to Master’s Sleeping Quarters.
The MSM would all look and sound quite different if business yanked it’s advertising from their air and their column-inches.
The point was made by steveg at #61:
“I am a strong believer that there would not be a democrat party without the mainstream media propping it up.”
Liberals are political pinata sock-puppets of the wealthy, to absorb the attentions and blows of the working classes in from the fields.
It’s worked pretty well for awhile, but the model might be failing. Us field hands are wondering why it is that “the Cunnel” always seems unable to get rid of that bad “Field Boss”.
I’d remind you to remember your Orwell:
“The War was not meant to be won, it was meant to be constant, only through the threat of annihilation can a hierarchical society be maintained”.
…and thus we get the “Inner-Party,Outer-Party, Proles” of today…guess who fits where.
The only thing dying is northeastern liberal Republicans. Much adieu about nothing. Personally, I do not want to be in a party associated with a man of Specter’s unprincipled and self-serving character. He was and always will be an embarrassment. Call it spin if you like, but it is the truth.
This is history repeating itself and will eventually be good for conservatism. We’ve heard it all before – the conservative, white, redneck, religious wing-nut party is dead.
We heard in 1964, we heard it in 1976, and we heard it in 1992. And from being dead, we went to being on top of the world in four years or less every time.
My biggest concern is not whether the Conservative party makes it back to power. It will as it the only one capable of making America great. My concern is when will we learn our lesson once there and stick by our guns? Reagan has been the only one capable of doing so in my lifetime.
Bilgeman,
I would like to hear more of your thoughts on wealths role in our society. I don’t have any use for the Rockefeller types either, but an entrepreneur who builds a better mouse trap, employs many people in high paying jobs, and contributes philanthropicaly to our society, not to mention paying a ton of taxes, that person deserves to be exalted, and I don’t care how much he makes. Instead he is derisively refered to as “the rich”, despite the fact that he risked his hard earned capital and worked 80 hours a week on the way up. What do you have to say about that?
I know what Ol’ Arlen thinks, he thinks we should bailout the fools who couldn’t manage their affairs correctly at the expense of the creator I described above. He favors the unproductive over the productive. I am really happy he is no longer a Repblican problem, I was always releived when he didn’t sell we conservatives out. I think the same about Sue Collins and Olympia Snowe. The GOP is much better off without these unprincipled, unreliable people in the party, even though it makes it even more of a minority, temporarily.
Good! Anything that helps our beloved President is OK with me and millions of real Americans who love President Obama. (Has a nice ring to it don’t you think?) I can only hope that all that debate nonsense and hate mongering in the congress will end and anything that our beloved President Obama wishes for is instantly passed. If only Snow would come clean and declair her aligence to The One, we would have the most lovely country.
Soon I’ll be getting all kinds of stuff from Pres Obama that you evil rich have been keeping from me and other deserving americans. I need a new TV, the one with the digadal chip. President Obama will not let me down!!!
Current polling data trumpeted by the left is almost completely irrelevant- a lot of people still don’t have any clue what Obama’s doing to the country, with his naive diplomacy and reckless print-money spending.
But they’ll come out-of-the-ether quick when we get humiliated overseas, the dollar tanks, inflation hits 10%, or a desperate Rezko/Blago sing to prosecutors about their former pal Barack… who’s closet is surely chock-full o’ bones.
Time is simply on the GOP’s side: neither Obama’s big-government spending nor his Carter-esque foreign policy based on appeasement have any precedent of success… anywhere…. ever. And the press can’t just do stories on his puppy-vetting process and how he likes to play basketball for four years… can they?
Obama hasn’t been tested overseas, nor has he yet gotten to the hard part domestically: he’s yet to raise taxes, nationalize healthcare, or provide mass amnesty for illegal immigrants. He hasn’t closed down the car companies he now runs and he has not yet forced a 30+ % jump in utility bills and myriad other products with his cap-and-trade stealth-tax schemes. And these are all on the Obama agenda.
Most likely, when all this pork-n-welfare spending fails to produce real economic gains, the Democrats face a bloodbath in 2010-
And by 2012? People will wince at the very mention of the name Obama-
#63 Eric – Lots of impressive emotion there, but not a lot of issues (actual issues) being discussed. Sounds more like a stump speech than any list of facts. It is essentially pointing out the flaws of the right and simply saying those flaws are a) real, and b) ok because the left is flawed in the same ways.
Even if the left is flawed that way, are you accepting of the failures of the right or is there a plan in our future?
And, you ask what about the conservative agenda is objectionable? Aside from not having any proof of being fiscally conservative while they doubled the debt in the last few years (yet we are supposed to just trust them now…), their stance on numerous social issues. That on top of the largest growth in the government in decades. Even though poll numbers belie this fact, many of you defend Bush adamantly because he was “a good conservative” but if that is what you think qualifies as a symbol of what you have to offer, no thanks. You make it sound like they are just trying to “give us liberty” and platitudes like that, but in reality their agenda is far more detailed, and not as high-brow as “defending liberty”.
You say your are “constitutionalists” yet you can’t even agree that the Vice President is part of the Executive Branch and not in the Legislature (pretty sure the Founders would agree with me on this one). You overrule laws with signing statements that reverse the intent of the law itself, and then you decry the “rogue” nature of judges.
You just said that all libs vote in lock step, but clearly that is what you want all republicans to do, hence the “good riddance” lobbed towards Specter.
Conservatives want to be left alone? No, they want to tell gays that they can’t get married and scientists they can’t do research on stem cells. They also want my kids to have to listen to your kids praying in school before they have to sit through a class on ‘Intelligent Design’.
And according to you, Liberals elected a President who said he’ll raise taxes, so it’s hard to call them greedy. Your side however will elect anyone who will throw nickels at you while our house burns down (still glad you got that $300 from Bush…did it save your job?).
Are the Democrats wonderful, no clearly not. But don’t try to sell me the Republican agenda without a platform and with far right social plans. That high-level “we are good, they are bad” doesn’t pass the sniff test and until you put someone up who can believably put some meat around those topics you mention you’ll be relegated to waiting for the Dems to fail if you want to get seats back. Perhaps spending so much energy on hoping Obama fails could be better spent talking to fiscal conservative Dems or Republicans near the party center who are tired of this rhetoric and bluster. But maybe that’s just me.
Jack
#56 — We have yet to have a a fully fiscal conservative approach to economics. If we ever do, you will see growth across the economy like we have not seen in this country since the 19th century. The rest of the world will have difficulty competeing, especially the Europeans.
You’re dreaming.
What kicks things along is technical progress, and this is almost invariably funded by government (typically DoD.) Some of this progress filters into the civilian world. Computers were created to help solve ballistics problems; computer chips were needed to guide ICBMs, GPS was needed to position troops, the internet was a failsafe communications backbone, and so on. Every one of these things that drive the modern economy was kick-started with massive government funding.
Had the “fiscal conservative” approach been taken since WWII we’d just now be able to take our cool new AM transistor radios outside with us on battery power and the punch button princess phone would appear by 2030. I for one am quite happy that a fiscal conservative approach has never been taken.
Instead, we have the conveniences of modern life because a fiscally conservative approach was REJECTED, and rightfully so. Perhaps you should google “Strategy of Technology” for your education at this point. It was written by Reagan’s SDI advisors.
#75 — You just said that all libs vote in lock step, but clearly that is what you want all republicans to do, hence the “good riddance” lobbed towards Specter.
That is the most telling comment of all. Independent thinking is prized until it is exhibited by a republican, who is then screeched at and called names (RINO!!!) until he decides to switch affiliations.
Note that the left has a far left greenie faction and yet the left rank and file isn’t told to march to that tune or else. (Contrast that to the far right social conservatives who insist that it’s their way or the highway.) It seems on the face of it that the left is a great deal more open to independent thinking.
We got rid of one RINO here in the state of Utah. His name was Chris Cannon. Two more to go. A governor and a senator. I can’t wait.
#68 Middleman: Yes, you’re right, the GOP has been focused on the free market system and have been pretty darned successful at it (pre-TeleBama market hostage take-over of course). The Liberals have been focused on busing in illegal, illiterate and unregistered voters to vote and you know what? They’ve been pretty successful at it too! Different focuses of course. One for the greater good and one for TeleBama’s good. You decide which is better.
Interesting contrast in the comments here.
Both Jack and G Alston seem have actually thought a lot about the issues and have formed an intelligent opinion.
And then you get BigDave hooting about kicking all the RINOS out of the party.
Then you get “A Thinking” Person calling Obama “TeleBama” in a move that the gossip pages might use about Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie.
Note to BigDave and ATP:
Cheering the shrinking of your party is counter-productive.
And calling people names is juvenile.
Following fiscal conservatism while ignoring social conservatism can’t work. Why not? The economy is built on a crumbling foundation if the next generation is not secure. When we kill off 1/4 of the next generation before it is born and leave the survivors to contend with rampant divorce and sexual for 18 years, the result is a workforce that is lacking in numbers, skill, integrity and health. Such a workforce will crumble when the crisis comes. Sure the house looks good with its great decorations, 2500 square feet, and big screen TVs, but if the foundation is rotting, it may soon be condemned because it isn’t safe to live in anymore.
#72 Samizdat:
“I would like to hear more of your thoughts on wealths role in our society. I don’t have any use for the Rockefeller types either, but an entrepreneur who builds a better mouse trap… What do you have to say about that?”
I say that the guy who builds a better mousetrap, or develops the next “must-have” software, or builds a succesful business is a very far cry from John D. Rockefeller and the Rockefellers who descended from him.
My point is that steveg had it exactly right.
Without media patronage, the Progressives, (as they style themselves), would be akin to what John Birch Society members are today perceived as…a kooky fringe of peculiar cranks.
Who coughs up the money that makes the media “go”?
Business, specifically, BIG Institutional Business…through their advertising dollars.
It therefore follows that Business, by advertising on MSM outlets, is endorsing, (in the way that REALLY counts), the initiatives that the MSM is biased towards.
The entire Liberal menu, as it is spun and pitched by media and academia, is underwritten, either directly or indirectly by Big Business.
There’s something we should remember about Rockefeller, Carnegie, DuPont and their ilk…those gentlemen were only for Free Markets insofar as it left them Free to exterminate their competitors and create monopolized captive markets.
They wanted government off of THEIR backs, but were perfectly happy to have Government lay a beat-down on their competitors…look what Edison tried doing to Westinghouse.
#82 Bilgeman – I’m not sure I’m following. Are you anti Rupert Murdoch or anti Bill Gates? Or both?
Jack
#83 Jack:
“I’m not sure I’m following.”
Have you read Orwell?
In “Nineteen Eighty-Four”, who was the author of “Goldstein’s Book”?
O’brien or ostensibly Big Brother. Sorry, but my question remains…I’m afraid you are moving to a conspiracy theory that requires too many players to be feasible. Not the least of which is that the big business spends money where people watch, not that they cause ppl to watch there. Business isn’t propping them up, they are just finding an audience that is already there, which is why they fund them.
Jack