So You Want To Own a Gun (Part Three)
We ended the last article in the series by recommending rimfire firearms for training, and left on the note that “merely buying a gun doesn’t make you a shooter any more than buying a car makes you a NASCAR driver.”
You would be utterly amazed by the number of people that seem to think the mere act of purchasing a firearm and a box of ammunition means they are near the end of their journey, instead of at the beginning.
I’d argue that there are at least three types of training that you need to develop competence with firearms:
- psychological awareness
- functional training
- tactical training
Try not to get ahead of me here.
When I refer to “psychological awareness,” I’m referring specifically to the basic level of maturity you have to embrace within the presence of firearms. Whether you are talking a single-shot .22LR rifle at the range or a concealed handgun carried in self-defense, you have to realize that you are in possession of a tool designed to launch dense projectiles at high velocities. Once launched, these projectiles will only stop when they hit something or are grounded. If you do not trust yourself or someone with that basic level of awareness on which safe gun-handling is built, then touching a firearm is completely out of the question.
When I refer to “functional training,” I’m speaking of the bare-bones instruction and practice needed to safely go through your weapon’s manual of arms, which may include ammunition selection and inspection, drawing, firing, addressing malfunctions and misfires, reloading, unloading, cleaning, and storage.
When I refer to “tactical training,” I’m not referring to guys wearing camouflage uniforms and web gear, but the actual tactics and methodologies you would use in an instance where you would deploy your firearm, whether just spending a day at the range, hunting, or in self-defense. In this article, we’re going to tackle training fundamentals for self-defense.
Lets look at these three kinds of training in the context of using firearms for self-protection in the home and for self-protection outside of the home (concealed carry).
Training for self-protection in the home with firearms
Ideally, a gun owner will take an introductory and/or a basics course with their firearms to learn how to use them safely, and will spend time mastering the basic principles of marksmanship and safe weapons handling before even thinking about using a lethal weapon for defense. Shooting yourself, a family member, or a pet because you are unfamiliar with your gun is a sad possibility that can occur if you don’t know what you are doing.
Before or while you are mastering the fundamentals of learning to operate your firearms safely, you can look into getting your head “right” for defense. The NRA, traditional martial arts schools, and many community centers and civic groups offer some variant of situational awareness training, so-called “don’t be a victim” classes. While many people would be tempted to blow them off, I strongly recommend them for every member of your family, from kids to the elderly. Crimes may be plotted out in advance or be spur-of-the-moment acts of opportunity, but they are not accidental. Such classes teach you to be aware of your surroundings and potential threats so that you can avoid them.
Once you have the right frame of mind and the correct foundational weapons training, you are ready to start considering the situational, tactical use of your firearm.
An NRA “Personal Protection in the Home” class and similar courses offered by a wide multitude of instructors will teach you how to construct a layered defense of your home. They may include tips on how everything from defensive landscaping to lighting to security systems to family pets can be a significant deterrent to criminal activity. This kind of training will also show you how to use your dwelling’s architecture to your defensive advantage, and how to refine weapon-specific tactics and ammunition for rifles, pistols, and shotguns. Just as importantly, instructors can provide recommendations on how to store weapons and ammunition safely.
Ultimately, the goal of self-protection in the home course is to put as many physical and psychological barriers between you and any potential threat as is practical to make them think twice about trying to breach your home, and to make it possible to defend your family members as safely and effectively as possible if a home invasion occurs. Firearms are the last-ditch resort in any such scenario, but are an important one nonetheless.
How do you find these classes? Your local gun shops and ranges will often have information about these courses, as will some law enforcement agencies depending upon your location. You can also find out from national organizations, online searches, and firearms message boards.
Bob – Can you recommend some brands of IWB holsters? Thanks.
I would look at the Crossbreed Supertuck, Ravens Concealment, The Comp Tac Minitor. These are all excellent choices for CCW holsters, Blade Tech has started making kydex leather hybrid holsters, those I find to be the best option for comfort and concealment. I carry a couple of fairly large handguns (CZSP01, CZP02, Glock 17) and the holsters I reccomend all spread the weight over a large area and the comp tac actually has interchangable bodies, so the one holster can be used for many different gun frames. I currently run the Comp Tac as my everyday rig and my mag pouch is a blade tech.
As for ammo, like Bob said, don’t skimp. If your life is worth living, it should be worth the cost of 1000 rounds of premium HP ammo. 500 to test reliability in your gun, 500 to carry only after testing. I run Remington Golden Sabres 124 gr.
The Alessi Hidout holster is so comfortable that you can forget that you are carrying a pistol (until you sit down in a hard chair and hear the clunk). It can conceal a full sized Model 1911 or Glock as long as you are wearing a shirt or jacket over the butt. Wear it behind your right hip if you are right handed.
It is not cheap but I consider it worth the price.
http://shop.alessigunholsters.com/Belt-Holster/Hideout
Mark,
However you carry your defensive firearm, make sure is accessable with EITHER hand.
Train to draw and shoot with “the wrong hand” often enough to build confidence should you primary hand/arm be injured at the outset of an encounter. You might not be able to “draw and shoot” as immediately as you’d do with your primary hand, you may need to develop a “two-step” maneuver to get it, turn it, then shoot, but you have to have SOME kind of plan for “access and present” when your primary hand is out of action.
Practice shooting and immediate action drills (clearing stoppages, reloading) with ONE HAND ONLY, (both your Dominant hand and “the other one”), because you cant control which one might be incapacitated…
You CAN safely hold an autoloader in an armpit, or upside down between your thighes or in the crook of your knee while sitting/squatting/kneeling, and do a “one handed magazine change” if you practice…and there are many ways to (safely) use the heel of your shoe, your belt, a wall/door jamb or even the ground to assist in racking the slide in an emergency.
Basically, once the “strong side, two handed” method of weapons handling are safely established, its time to move training on to “the unusual”….because being hurt in a deadly encounter BEFORE your adversary is neutralized, aint that all that unusual. Expect it to happen, and have a plan for dealing with it.
If your Firearms Instructor cant show you how to (safely) use these kinds of techniques, find yourself another.
I fear the “border scuffle” too complex. Let’s keep it simple.
The term “Self Defense Ammunition” generally applies to handgun loads, and it probably doesn’t mean what the new shooter thinks it means.
It is a common misconception that a large caliber pistol (.40S&W, 45ACP, 45 long Colt, 10mm, .357 mag, .44mag) will knock the target ass end over tea kettle. Especially in action movies, you see the bad guy flying backwards after he’s been blasted by the hero’s hand cannon, like he was hit by a 2 ton truck.
That doesn’t happen. Your 1100 fps 165 grain bullet is not going to do anything like that.
The problem with handguns is that they are not really very powerful, especially when compared to rifles, because the velocity of the bullet leaving the barrel of the pistol is only about a third that of the muzzle velocity of a rifle bullet. That velocity, or the kinetic energy of the round, is all the shooter has for an energy bank account to deliver to his intended target.
So, you now know that you won’t knock the bad guy down when you shoot him with your Fotay. Your best chance to stop the perp then is to make him bleed out as fast as you can.
Defensive ammo, for handguns, is based on bullet design. A defensive bullet is exactly the kind of projectile that the Geneva Convention outlaws in warfare, an expanding or dum-dum round.
You could call these cartridges “anti-zombie” rounds, going along with the current Zombie Apocalypse meme, which is a half joking concept by preppers and hard core self-defense types to have ammunition that will kill anything that comes at them. A good zombie bullet will start with the diameter of the caliber of the pistol and, when it impacts soft tissue, expands and distorts by as much as 100% of the original. This expansion allows for more of your bullet energy bank account to be spent on the body of the target, which blows a great gaping hole in the target that penetrates to vital organs, while staying inside the body. Massive hemorrhage will ensue and shortly after the target will lie down because of blood loss.
If you are in a self-defense scenario, you have to be prepared to kill in exactly that manner. Bloody awful stuff, this self-defense. And no such thing as warning shots; you’ll just shoot someone else by accident and probably will miss your one chance to survive the gunfight.
Personally, I prefer shotguns over handguns for home defense. There are specialized defense loads for shotguns as well. You can’t carry a shotgun concealed though.
The one best point of the 12 gauge pump shotgun for home defense is the fact that it’s the one firearm you may not have to shoot. The sound of that pump cycling has the advantage of potentially convincing any home invader that there is a better home to invade somewhere else.
(And No Mark V, it’s not 100 percent of the time, nor the perfect situation, and neither am I portraying it as such, but it is an edge, and it does, and has, opereated that very way in Real Life Situations that you can find hundreds of examples of in the News)
.
And, as always, should you have to defend yourself for any reason, any where, be certain to call 911 Immediatly and frantically ask for Medical Assistance. Don’t boast, Say it right up front “I Had To Shoot…” get that into the conversation, and be Concerned for getting the perp MEDICAL CARE as soon as possible.
You’re going to need those tapes from the 911 center in court when the perp’s family sues you for Wrongful Death. (Ask Todd Broom if a clear cut case of self defense is any protection.)
Actually, you should dial 9-1-1- first, if possible, and leave the phone off the hook. (Or the cellphone live, whatever.)
Assuming you actually get an operator (not always a guarantee due to call density, especially in large cities), the authorities will have a live audio recording of what happens.
This can be a big help in front of a grand jury, or three-judge panel. Especially if you say things like “Halt or I’ll shoot”, or “Drop the weapon!” when appropriate.
However, any dialogue from a Clint Eastwood “Dirty Harry” or Bruce Willis “Die Hard” movie is not recommended. Never say, “Make my day”, and absolutely avoid, “Yippie-ki-yay, Mother f***er”.
cheers
eon
Excellent points. Your mouth may be your worst enemy in such a situation. We’ve all seen too many action movies with tough language. I recall Dennis Tueller telling a class that in the majority of non-police gun confrontations (shooting or not) he’s been aware of, the MF word was used by the good guy. It’s almost always, “FREEZE M—-F—–!”
It really looks bad to a jury. Highly NOT recommended!
Its been said that “freeze! sounds too much like “Please!”, as if youre begging for mercy rather than commanding the aggressor to desist.
True or not I prefer the deep and bold short “o” sound of “STOP!” as it can sometimes be more convincing, and is (more?) likely to be remembered by potential witnesses.
“Oh yeah, officer, I heard him say “Stop, Stop, Stop”, then I heard a gunshot” is better to be said of your actions, than their memory of a sharp “eeeee” sound that could be remembered/mistaken as the anonymous shrieks and sequels of “a fight”
Amazing what people THINK they see/hear when it happens fast
The Root ’83;
In Patrol Procedures, I was taught to avoid “Stop” except in a traffic control situation. Mainly because it, too, can sound like pleading, especially when repeated.
The military sentry challenge, “HALT!” said in a loud, firm voice, is entirely unambiguous.
cheers
eon
Now, I’ll admit that jacking a round into a pump shotgun is a rush and the sound will crystallize most anybody’s perceptions. And I’ll also admit that the one movie trailer a couple of years ago in which the hot babe jacked a round in one handed drove me so crazy that I practiced and practiced and practiced to try to be able to do it reliably; still can’t with my Mossberg, not reliably anyway. And speaking of reliability, evey your trusty 12 guage pump that has never failed you in the field or at the range is subject to fail you, or you it, when you’re awakened by the bump in the night and you have seconds to react, so mine is kept with a round in the chamber and the safety on at all times, no jacking a round for me. I realize that isn’t an option for people with kids, but my cat hasn’t figured out how to shoulder a shotgun yet, so I don’t worry about it.
Keep an eye on that cat, Art.
That cat has her own suite of both offensive and defensive armament; you will give blood if you mess with her. She’s 14 years old and grew up in a house with three kids, all their friends, two brothers, and two dogs; she can handle herself. All but one of the kids is out on their own, the last dog died in ’07 (though we just got a new one, much to her chagrin), her brothers both died this winter, but she’s still pretty active though starting to show her age a bit. If she needed a shotgun, she’d learn how to use it.
I wasn’t worried about the cat. I was worried about YOU!
It’s an interesting debate. Warn them off, thus avoiding any shooting? Or give them advance notice of your presence, thus losing the element of surprise?
Qualified people come down on BOTH sides of the question. One thing is certain – that nothing is certain.
Those who say that racking a 12 gauge always ends the fight are simply gun-store-commando idiots. But I repeat myself.
I think it depends on the circumstances. For example, you peer over your balcony and see that the noise you heard is a couple of kids, racking that slide might just send them scurrying, which is certainly better than having to shoot. OTOH, if you see it’s 4 black-clothed men with serious weaponry, losing that element of surprise might cost you your life.
Whatever the case, I think it’s always better to have as much information as possible about the situation BEFORE making that decision. Simply assuming that racking the slide will save your bacon is foolish.
Just can’t help yourself with the staw men.
I never said always, I specified it wasn’t 100%.
I used the word MAY, not will may. That’s a sometimes thing. (maybe you should watch sesame street to help you with those concepts.)
Another point, in a home invasion I don’t think you are going to be giving anything away by letting the bad guys know you are home. I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that in most cases (please note the use of the word most and not all) they already know. The only thing you are giving away is that you have something lethal in your fists.
Now here’s another concept for you; There is NO entrance exam for criminal.
Hence most (again most not all) criminals tend to be of lower intellegence. (again with the subtlties here, lower intellegence does not reduce lethality one iota, that’s not what I’m saying so don’t try that straw man) and aren’t goint to be making strategic plans once they know you are armed. This isn’t the Army Rangers we’re talking about here.
Therefore, you are either going to find they have decided to invade a less resistant home or they are going to rush blindly in and you will have to actually shoot them. Either way, letting them know you have something lethal to confront them with isn’t going to give the average (average, not the unique onesy twosey case you may find from time to time – we’re talking statistical norms, not extremes but I repeat myself) criminal any advantage.
Didn’t say you did. Many do. I was commenting on those.
Agreed, in a home invasion you probably want to get lead on target as fast as possible. Most happen in a very sudden and violent manner. There’s no subtlety on their side, and none needed on yours. The most you would be giveing away is your location, but in that case, you are shooting immediately, so nothing is lost.
On the other hand, a couple of kids looking for a quiet burglary are another matter. A slide rack may be just the ticket for persuading them of the error of their ways, with no shots fired.
But pros? Coming in armed and in stealth mode? I wouldn’t want to give away my position in that case. Rare for most people, maybe a higher probability for others, depending on lifestyle and professional associations.
Variables, variables.
Pump shotguns suck for most people because most people don’t practice enough. There’s a whole lot of people who say don’t get a handgun with a safety on it because that’s just one more thing to screw up under pressure. Yet then the same people will recommend the use of a big, heavy, limited-capacity, slow-to-reload gun that requires manually cocking a slide before EVERY shot.
Very true. As someone who has taught firearms safety and tactical use to classes of the Buckeye State Sheriffs’ Association, I’ve lost count of the number of times in range practice I’ve seen even trained, experienced officers on a reaction course start a shotgun “run” and;
1. Forget to pump the action after one or two shots.
2. Fire five shots and forget to reload.
3. Inadvertently engage the safety (especially with the Remington 870).
4. Short-stroke the action, resulting in a smokestack jam.
5. While reloading, get a round stuck under the lifter, halfway in the tube, thereby stonewalling the whole production.
And other, even more far-out ways of rendering the shotgun non-operational. My favorite being the guy who somehow got a 16-gauge mixed in with the department-issued 12-gauge loads, which went halfway into the forcing cone ahead of the chamber, stuck there, and then jammed the gun completely when he tried to reload after what he thought was a dud round. On reflection, I’m still glad it wasn’t a 20-gauge, which would have gone all the way in- and when a 12-gauge was chambered and fired behind it, would have almost certainly caused a breech explosion.
When you consider the difficulty of operating almost any mechanism when you’re in a situation where you’d have to be crazy not to be at least nervous, simpler is better. For this reason, if you choose a shotgun for home defense, I’d suggest a reliable self-loading one, like a Remington 1100, Mossberg 930, or Benelli 90. Pull the bolt handle all the way back once, and let go of it, and make sure the safety is where you want it- on, or off. All you have to do then is remember to squeeze the trigger.
Reloading the magazine is rarely necessary in a home-defense situation, and even the “tactical” extended magazine is probably irrelevant. Generally, if it takes more than five rounds to solve the problem, you are in a situation that probably should have been handled by a police tactical team, not you, to begin with.
In fact, there’s a lot to be said for the old-fashioned, 20″, double-barreled “coach” type shotgun,with or without outside hammers. It can be left loaded for quite some time with few springs “set” (no springs under tension at all if it’s the outside hammer type and you lower the hammers with your thumb after loading and closing it), and can be brought into action in near or total silence.
As for “psychological impact”, few rational housebreakers will risk bad odds of serious injury or death when looking down the business end of a double-barrel. And if the worst happens, and you have to shoot, two finger movements will launch two shot loads, or whatever, downrange.
That is generally all it takes.
cheers
eon
Mixed rounds = bad mojo.
The rangemaster who is absolutely DEATH on bringing your own stuff is not going to win any popularity contests, but he’s right.
Excuse me, but most cases (and statistically speaking, this is an accurate statement) if you are going to have to protect your home from an invasion by the local criminal element, you aren’t going to be in a war-zone firefight.
If you are using a shotgun and you have to shoot more than once it’s rare, twice exceptionally rare, but for crying out loud, if you have to empty the magazine and reload you have a completely different problem than some burglers (or home invaders) breaking into your suburban house.
Yes, but statistics are an indication of trends and have no bearing on the actual situation you’re in- which is already outside of statistical norms. Since I equate self-defense preparations with life insurance, I’d like to cover those low-odd probablities that I can afford to cover. That is-
I would rather have 10 rounds too many than one too few.
A woman can not carry a shotgun in her purse or whatever. Also, this idea of causing severe bleeding is nonsense; the intruder can empty his weapon (or whatever) before he bleeds to death. What you really need is bullet momentum
(mv=wv/g) which produces more recoil; settle for kinetic energy where e=wvv;
just use e= wvv/450,000. No charge. Houston
Bob, talking about good training, as far as i can tell, the gold standered is a place called Front Sight in Navada about a hours drive from Vagas. frontsight.com. In a 4 dya class, we went through everyhting you talked about in this article and more. To echo you, the most importent thing about havnig a fire arm is mindset, and training, gear is secondary. I dont want to brake the NO advertising rule, but as i Navy vet, i highy recomend them. The price is about standered for all shooting schools, $1,000 for 2 days, $2,000 for 4. i recomend the 4 days, and Front Sight does discounts and special offers to first time students all the time, just need to sign up for the news letter.
Jack, blade tech makes a good quality holsters, and ravenconcealment.com. i use both brands for several weapons. raven is a little better in my opinion for comfort, but i usully carry a .45 that is not the standered 1911 shape, raven made a holser for it, blade tech did not. not knocking blade tech, my smaller XD .45 is in a BT IWB holster.
and i forgot to run my reply through spell check.. sorrrrry!
Thanks.
Most knowledgeable folks don’t have much use for FrontSight.
Try Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Firearms Academy of Seattle, or anything offered by Massad Ayoob or John Farnam.
+1
Ayoob is very good at analysis, and brings a lot to the table in “thinking” about tactics and the physiology of a shooting, but he has never seen the elephant (at least not before the mid ’80′s, I cant say what he’s done since as I’m not a follower) and his “Stressfire” techniques of that period were quite awkward and unnatural for most of us who experimented with them.
His recorded “save” as cataloged by the Second Chance Body Armour company was, I believe, an A.D. in a training environment, not a in gunfight. However, I do believe his book “the semiautomatic in law enforcement and self defense” should be required reading by anyone wishing to understand the employment of firearms. It is a bedrock classic to build your library on.
My biggest issue with MOST long standing “professional” shooting schools (and I have attended many) is this:
The instructors run, develop and tweak their courses of fire forever, shaving a second here, a nanosecond there, like athletes….and end up developing and refining a level of “repetitive gun range esoterica” that is not useful to most people, like the completely useless and tactically UNSOUND “high thumbs” technique that is now, unfortunately, standard training by most for the last 15 years or more.
Its a technique drawn from the (non-practical) I.P.S.C. shooters of the 80′s -90′s. It evolved from the need to minimize “disruption” of view through opical systems on highly specialized compensated pistols in that TARGET SHOOTING world. Its great for rapid fire steel plate shooters going through 1000 rounds a week. Its also great for “tactical instructors” upping their game incrementally week by week, where every nuance counts.
But it SUCKS for real-time street defensive shooters to DRAW a weapon with that hand posture as THEIR weapon might be immediately knocked, jostled grappled with or grabbed at…its an unsound technique, because you have given away the most important tool we humans have. The 360 degree grasp of a “handle” with our opposable thumb.
The primary hand should have THE tightest death grip possible, from the moment you grasp it in the holster. The “support hand” is just that, support if its available. Fiddling, adjusting and “transitioning” from a one hand grip/draw with a “locked thumb”, into the fancy-pants two handed “high thumbs” target shooters grip, is foolish, unnecessary and not at all “tactical”.
Its another “nuance” crafted by guys with simply way too MUCH trigger time under their belt, and called “tactical”
For your average officer or citizen in a deadly encounter, its more liability than help.
The K.I.S.S. principal in weapons training is primary.
Grab it like a life-rope, not like a f*cking golf club…
DONT DROP IT AND DONT GET IT KNOCKED OUT OF YOUR HAND.
Fire.
Some of these Professional Athlete Shooters confuse their own long evolved lightning speeds and million muscle memory reflexes for the basic, reliable DOABLE UNDER STRESS SKILLS regular people need BASIC mastery of. Many of the techniques they preach work well for THEM, because they shoot guns 40 hours a week.
Most of us, dont.
Didn’t want to leave a long post last time, and i don’t want to start a post war now. But, front sight is ground up kind of place, simpler is better, and what will work 95% of the time for you attitude. In my class of 20 students, 4 or 5 had never fired a gun, one was a 8 year veteran of LAPD, and the rest of us were the “for fun” kind. At the end of it we were all keeping up with the LA cop, and he said he improved greatly. the most importent things they taught us, besides the gun handling, was what called the color code of situation awareness, all your skills are useless if a thug hits you over the back of the head with a rock, and how to practice, practice, practice. that’s dry practice, and me, its 15-20 min a day, 1-3 times a week. worst thing you can do is spend $$$$ on training and then don’t practice, you loose all your skills you spent $ building up. ok… 1,2,3,4… i declair POST WAR!
Adam,
I just realized your comments were most likely to Mark V concerning his opinion Front Sight, and not to myself concerning simplicity of training. I dont see my long “reply” to you yet posted, but thought I should acknowledge my mistake and apologize to you and Mark for butting my nose into your conversation.
I am (proudly at times!) a disagreeable windbag pontificating at great length. Please excuse the arrogance of just assuming you must have been speaking to me.
Agreed about the impracticality of IPSC and its imitators. Don’t think you’ll see any of that junk at the schools I’ve mentioned.
There are several IWB holsters to choose from. I use the MaxTuck from whitehatholsters.com. It is VERY comfortable and conceals very well. Also, check out the Hidden Ally from highnoonholsters.com. It is a good solution for carrying in the appendix position or at the 1 o’clock position in front of your front pocket.
All this gun talk is disturbing. It encourages violent behavior. For example, I had a neighbor who shot and killed a young boy who had wandered into my neighbor’s house. There was simply no need for it. The poor boy could have been lost, as it was the early morning hours, and simply wandered into the home. The police say the boy was “armed”, with only a knife as it turned out. It was a perfect situation, something my neighbor probably dreamer about! There was his chance go kill! The fact that the poor kid was also high at the time just reveals the insanity of if all: poor, lost, intoxicated kid gets blown away. Yeah…..let’s all get a gun so we can kill unsuspecting kids. No wonder inner city gun crime is through the roof!
Is this Sarcasm, or a genuine self parody?
LovelyEarth is a parody. He or she is probably an arch-conservative who uses this method to illustrate the idiocy of leftists.
He “wandered” into a home while only carying a knife in the early morning hours. “Wandered”? While “only” carrying a knife? In the early morning hours? While high on drugs? And he got shot! I can’t imagine why. Are you a complete crackpot or what? Maybe some early morning at about 3AM you will be awakened by a stoned kid who happens to “wander” up to your bedside while “only” holding a knife. What will you do? Possibly bake him a cake I suppose. If yours isn’t the dumbest comment of the day I don’t know what is.
Once again, LovelyEarth has caused coffee to exit my nose and cause stains on important paperwork, and once again, I can’t hold it against him/her. Never change, LE!
Your comment is the best until now, it highlights the kind of “arguments” that you will have to face when using a weapon in self-defense.
The lawyer of the criminal will speak exactly like that.
And that means that there is a lot to be thought about HOW to defend yourself.
PS
Guys, this is one of the best writers we have at PJM, please don’t take his/her comments literally.
In a just and sane world the following would be true:
(1). Responsible ownership and the use of a gun for the purpose of defending oneself anywhere from bodily harm or death should be the accepted norm and not subject to any question by any authority.
(2). Invading by any means including “wandering” into the home of another during the dead of night while stoned and carrying any sort of weapon (pocket knife, baseball bat, sword, shotgun, chain, rope, f lame-thrower, walking stick, bare hands, etc.) should only imply hostile intent which may include (unknowingly to the homeowner) anything from the simple demand for food to robbery, rape, murder, or extreme bodily injury and should be assumed by the invader as an extremely dangerous undertaking that may result in said invader’s injury or death.
(3). Wrongful death lawyers and their clients should be subjected to having their homes invaded during the dead of night by a stoned and armed invader so as to see how they respond to the experience and how it affects their lives.
(4). Sob-sister neighbors to someone who has experienced (3) above should have the same experience as the neighbor visited upon themselves in order to measure their more “civilized” approach to the situation. If they survive they should then write a column in order to tell us how they handled the traumatic situation.
Gosh, LE. What a supporting neighbor you must be for the poor soul who had to deal with a horrible situation in which they were unwillingly placed. I am sure that they appreciate your judgment of their actions.
Yooper, ease up, LE’s been away for awhile but LE does lefty parody so well that most everybody gets taken in until they learn better. That said, LE’s rap is exactly what a prosecutor or plaintiff’s attorney will use to try to get twelve morons with driver’s licenses to put you in jail for a long time, stick a needle in your arm if you’re white and the perp was black, or take everything you own because really the four black guys who pulled up in the Escalade with blacked out windows and kicked in your door were only looking for directions to the church so they could get to choir practice.
I agree with you passion to swing the pendulum back the other way,
but I gotta disagree on the “wandering” thing…
People can, and do, go places they dont “actually” belong, for sound reasons.
Bleeding from a car accident, seeking help.
Escaping an aggressive stray Pit-bull dog.
Scared shitless, running from a mugger.
Wrong address for a delivery.
Been called to a residence by frightened homeowners for each one.
They were smart. Something wasnt right, they kept their cool and called the Po. They didnt just shoot someone who was ‘there” and didnt “belong”.
You need a reasonable fear of bodily harm for Deadly Force.
Indignation at their mere presence isnt enough.
Shooting people just because “they dont belong there” in order to “tune-up” the rest of societies manners, isnt cool.
Advocating such doesnt help our cause.
How old was this “young boy?” Were the doors and windows locked when he “wandered” in? Most important, if this poor lost young boy had killed or injured the homeowner, would the homeowner have gotten a do-over? If the homeowner had called the police, would they have arrived in time to prevent any harm?
You’re free to make your decisions when you’re at risk, LE. You’re not free to make mine.
I think LovelyEarth is being humorous, but a friend of a friend had this happen in California a couple of years ago. A meth-stoned teenager walked into the guys house late one evening and began stabbing the guy’s poor daughter. The guy wrestled the knife away and subdued the perp. Thank God she recovered, but imagine the trauma. But it could have turned out a lot worse for both of them.
I don’t care if the poor lost stoned ass got capped. This is the biggest problem,
compassion for illegal acts leads to 0 responsibility. The chance that someone is in MY home after might-night uninvited with good intent is an absolute ZERO. What would you have done hid under your bed and HOPE he just goes away. My condolences for your friend and his choice of friends. You sir are a gutless simpering liberal.
Lovely Earth: It would, be, if we could just convince knife-carrying” wandering youths” to wander only on your premises and those of other criminal-loving libtards,so you could confront them armed only with your fatuity, and a rolled up copy of the NY Times.Enough of these encounters,and the attendant Darwinian elimination of liberals would indeed make the earth lovely!
There are sheep, sheep dogs, and wolves. The sheep dogs find their own weapons. The wolves have theirs. Arming the sheep is not a grand idea.
You watch TNP as well? EDC check!
Don’t over look the value of an Airsoft gun that is a match or close match of your firearm. These can be used to practice home defense tactics in your house with out shooting holes in the place. set up some paper man size targets and then run some simulations, try it in the dark with a flash light.
lovelyearth: I had a neighbor, Had because he is dead now. At 83 years old He had a visit by two youths who had wandered in his house probably lost but probably not they asked for money that he couldn’t give them so they assaulted him, robbed him, tortured him for his ATM pin code then when he gave it to them they beat him to death with a shotgun and then shot him in the head twice with the shotgun. His own kids could not ID him.
Let’s not forget the old couple who got attacked by another lost youth who beat the wife who was 81 then raped her in front of her 83 year old husband before killing her. The poor lost youth then beat the dead and violated woman’s husband so badly he was near death and after being taken to the hospital died just days later.
Please note: Tueller Drill, named for David Tueller, Regardless of age if the person with a knife is inside 7 yards/21 feet you can be killed by the knife before you can aim and shot the knife wielder.
http://www.aware.org/arttruelaw/knifeattack.shtml
It’s DENNIS Tueller, not David.
He’s a nice guy, too.
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff/Tueller/Dennis.htm
I stand gratefully corrected, Thanks!
Here is the original paper:
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm
That’s a decisive point, thank you for reminding us about it.
These articles, and particularly the replies, exhibit knowledge beyond my expertise. However, I have assessed advanced technologies, in unclassified areas of weaponry, and can contribute to what is coming in the years ahead.
It is, or will be possible, in the coming years to select a cartridge which has defined range and performance capabilities, by shot. Example: you suddenly wish to shoot at a deer which is hiding behind a boulder, 80 meters away. You hold a shot gun which fires a projectile capable of a range of many hundreds of meters. By various means, you target your shot to pass over the boulder and explode, killing the deer by indirect fire. The projectile will have an ultimate range, perhaps 120 yards, preselected for that situation. The bullet will turn to harmless dust at 120 yards, the background field. This is now, or soon will be possible by the melding of micro electronics, in both the weapon and the projectile, and explosives within the projectile.
The technical barriers are essentially solved. The barriers to common usage are legal (explosive projectiles can only be used by the military), and the cost of weapon and bullet, both dictated by the R&D and market size considerations. The legal issues will rest on acceptance by the public of using exploding bullets which are guaranteed to cease flight at a predefined range. The risk is similar to the risk of a cell phone mislocating itself, almost zero. The advantages of use in urban, and suburban areas are obvious. Realistically this technology will cause a fire storm of societal controversy. But the advantages, for the police and military, is so great that it will be (or has been??) developed.
The Second Amendment conflict centers on what authority is granted to the governments, and/or to the citizens, for small arms weapons. Our technology has evolved from the flint lock to automatic weapons, but the basic projectile flight ballistic behavior has remained essentially unchanged since the Minie ball. Now it will.
Let the dialog begin.
Interesting, but way too much to think about under stress to be practical in large numbers as an “everyday” weapon system for “everyone”.
1) Range estimation. I have to be perfect with something essentially flying over my target, and then dropping (exploding) straight down as its EXACTY above it. Off by a mere 5 meters could be important?
2) Moving targets in real time. Re-set, re-calibrate re-acquire? Shoot over, no AT, no OVER…SHIT he’s gone!
3) Multiple targets in infalade. I dont want the ones that miss the front guy to turn to dust. Ricochet and over-penetration are sometimes my best friend.
Technology is not a bad thing. Modern cartridge arms are infinitely more complex than a flintlock….but their greatest strength is the speed and ease of operation which makes them so simple to USE effectively in comparison.
Longer range, flatter trajectory, faster shot to shot times. It matters not if the man size target is 10 or 300 meters away, a “battle sight zero” will put the round in there every time if you hold center mass. Simplicity. Ease of operation. Effectiveness.
I’ve experienced some specialty weapons systems employment…Dragons, T.O.W.s and Mortars. Optics and range, recitals, stadia line, mildots and the like. But they are specific target “mission” type scenarios. They are not things to use quickly, on the fly, moment to moment as needed.
And they always have OTHER guys, with regular old reliable ‘iron sighted” rifles and pistols loaded up with boring solid hunks o’ metal projectiles that have no moving parts within them, to cover their asses while they are essentially, a helpless sitting target…
…tinkering with that whizz-bang whirrly-gig ugly box looking thingie, thats always running out of batteries or somehow getting damaged, cant be “shot from the hip” while running, and doesnt look NEARLY as cool as belted M-60 machine gun ammo strapped across your chest in the picture you send your girlfriend….
Nobody wants to look like they they “fight” with a tablet or i phone, and (god willing) I’ll be long gone when they do!!
An interesting comment for a professional engineer to make.
Houston Humphries PE TX #16176
Good advice. And above all, do NOT use handloads for self-defense!
There are two reasons for this:
1. Reliability (or the lack thereof)
2. Legal implications.
On point one, no, I don’t care how good you are. No handloader can come close to the reliability of computer controlled machines loading ammunition in a controlled environment. Buy name-brand, high quality ammunition for serious defensive use, and save the handloads for plinking or hunting, where your life is not on the line.
On the second point, no, there’s no law against it. It just looks bad to prosecutors and juries. Massad Ayoob has written about this a number of times over the years. More than one case has gone against someone because the prosecutor (who is often a rabid anti-gunner) has used handloaded ammo or lightened trigger pulls to paint a picture of a wannabe Rambo who was just itching to kill someone. It happens. If you have to shoot someone, you want the legal decked stacked in YOUR favor, not against you. Using handloads or customized guns stacks that deck against you.
So true.
I’ve literally never had a “real” misfire with factory ammo, ever.
Never had a missing/upside down primer, or “no powder” in a factory center fire pistol cartridge, ever, in 30+ years of shooting. Seen it happen on the line, just never to me.
All my misfires when using factory ammo were “intentional”..dummy cartridges randomly introduced for immediate action training.
Not so with the thousands and thousands of “progressive machine” re-loads that have gone through my pistols. (I dont reload myself, I barter with buddies who do, or buy from local shops that always have tons on hand) I’ve had a few. Not many, but “some” over the years compared to “god, even ONE I can recall?” with factory stuff.
Thats not to knock the guys who re-load. We shoot for fun as well as “training” so getting the most from your “supplies” and having fun is the goal with reloads, and we’re probably less anal about “absolute perfection” than the factory. Reloads are fun, its a great hobby that requires technical skills, and I respect the abilities of most who choose to do it (I dont have the time and patience)
But for carry weapons? Factory, ALWAYS.
Agreed on all points! Especially the last!
I really do not know too many people who reload their own ammunition that need advice on firepower or weapon choice. My comments have been made for those people that are not gun-nuts. I quit reloading years ago due to time and patience restraints. Factory ammo is accurate enough for my hunting needs (moving targets at various ranges and weather conditions) and I do not desire
to get into bench rest competition.
This is news that many of my friends and members of the ASCE will want to be aware of. I’m sure BOA knows you win some and lose some.
Houston Humphries (ASCE and NRA life member)
And one needs to practice, practice and more practice.
What is seen in movies and TV is nothing like the real experience of firing a weapon.
I have to admit when considering arming myself that I get stymied by the whole mindset thing mentioned right at the beginning of the article by the author. I don’t think I personally have either the correct type of mental focus to be adequately safe or the fortitude to be effective in a defensive situation with a weapon. It’s just not me.
So while I’ve read this series so far with great interest, I think I’ll continue to “freeload” on those around me who do take on the expense of being armed and (hopefully) the training to be safe and effective, as I think the overall benefit to society of those who do arm themselves is significant.
Pepper spray is a long way from the defensive power of a gun, but it still beats fending off an attacker by using harsh words. So maybe look into that.
I actually did have pepper spray for a while because of an aggressive dog in the neighborhood that’s now gone.
And I did practice with it so that’s a good idea.
Hi Bret,
Thanks for the insightful comment. Too many people come down either on the “guns are bad, so I don’t own one” or the “Guns are good, so I own a bunch”. Not many people have honestly and responsibly taken account of their own ability to use one in a stressful situation and decided that they’re safer without one than with. As part of the small percentage of people who *do* carry, I feel like you’re the kind of non-carrier that gets it, in spite of your choice to go unarmed.
Your attitude also makes me more willing to be the sheepdog type that watches out for non-carriers. Thanks for being level headed and mature about it.
Craig and Bret.
Bravo for your good citizenship. Not everyone needs to be armed,
and those who chose not to need not apologize for their choices.
Admitting the task is perhaps just too personally daunting takes a good amount of healthy self confidence,
and it would be quite easy to fall into the “anti” crowd as a face saving gesture if met with hostility
for being so honest.
Sensible and respectful responses like Brets to the (fairly common) common stance of “its just not for me”
without belittling goes a long way to help “our side” maintain our rights.
In that regard, both of you are 100% right, with neither proving the other wrong.
Citizens.
With Rights.
Respected.
See how easy that is?
Thanks guys, for reminding me what the middle is supposed to be.
And Wes too,
Not calling the un-gunner names was a class move that needs to be acknowledged too.
Bret
the mindset you speak of, is the desire not to be a victim of another person.
while you may not feel comfortable with firearms, I would like to recommend self defense with everyday objects.
That is, if you are interested.
“Afterward, shooters will go to the range and prove to the instructors that they can manage to operate a weapon without shooting themselves … and sadly, that is just about all that is required in most states.”
Yes, it certainly is sad that free citizens should be required to jump through hoops before they can exercise a God-given right in the Constitution. Vermont has never required permits or training. And more states have joined them. And the sky hasn’t fallen yet. In some states, you need a permit and training to conceal carry, but you don’t need one to open carry. Which brings me to my next comment…
…there’s no mention of open carry in this article. (If there is, I and my text search missed it.) Open carry is easier and safer than conceal carry, arguably prevents more crime, and it generally requires less asking government for permission to exercise your rights. It’s funny how in some states you can walk around with a .44 on your hip no problem, but if you then put on a coat or untuck your shirt, you’re suddenly considered a menace to society.
All in all i think the author hit most of the high points needed for a beginner to investigate further.
However, there was one important part missing when he was that once you have a holster, gun & ammo you’re ready to go. I respectfully disagree, the foundation for all this gear rests on a proper gun BELT.
There are many people who don’t even think about this part but it’s really the most important of concealed carry. If you think your nylon tactical style belt will work you’re wrong. There are many suppliers but I got mine from the “BELTMAN” on line for about $75. It’s a double layer of leather with a stiffener in between.
For those who need a belt for CC you have to get one from Milt Sparks, considered to be the “GOLD” standard for holsters. I have many of them and my favorite is the Versa Max II model when I CC my 1911′s.
“Sagging gun belts have filled more graves than the French and Indian War.”
-Dan J. Marlowe, 1972.
Excellent advice.
cheers
eon
Thank you Jack, I agree totally about the belt. This section of the article is well written and very informative as well as very helpful along with the comments.
As to the schools, everyone has an opinion as to which one is “best”. There are major differences as to how each school teaches. Just as there are differences between Karate and Kung Fu or Tai Kwondo. Your best bet is to contact a number of different schools and have them send you there brochures, compare them and then try to find someone that has been to them for a recommendation.
As to holsters, I know I’m going to get jumped on for this one but for someone on a tight budget don’t overlook the used bin. You can find some real gems there among a lot of junk. Most really good holsters are made to fit a specific type of handgun. If someone trades in his gun for a different model, many times he will just give the old holster to the gunshop if he buys a different type. ( The same holds true for the guns themselves but make sure the gunshop has had it checked out by a good gunsmith and have it checked out yourself.)
As to learning, my nephew got involved with a reenactment group here and bought himself a black powder rifle. He asked me to teach him how to use it. I started out with the basics and told him all the things he could do wrong before we even thought about going to the range. Once there, I showed him how to load and fire it and then walked him through it for his first time. I then stepped back and watched as he managed to do everything I had warned him about. I did let him load one ball without powder just to show him how to get it out again but stopped him before he could double load and again before he shot his ramrod down range. I let his friends point out that the percussion rifle he bought didn’t fit in with the Seminole war period they were reenacting but the basics were there and later I showed him how to work a flintlock.
Another time I was at the range with a friend. I was shooting my Repro 1807 Harpers Ferry pistol. I asked her if she would like to take a shot with it and then loaded it up for her. I thought she had been watching me fire it but I was wrong. I cocked it for her and then moved back. She pulled the trigger, the pan powder went off, she almost dropped the pistol, caught it, brought it back up level just as the main charge went off and actually hit the target.
A bit off topic, but I have, on several occasions, asked the owners of an ancient muzzle loader, if it was loaded? After the stunned look, it had rested over the mantle for perhaps a century, I offered to check it. Twice I found a fully charged load behind a ball, a horror to people ignorant of firearms. Once I had to use a straightened coat hanger, the ram rod had long ago walked away.
Measure the internal free distance, the outer length of the barrel, and subtract the difference. If it is inches, the weapon is probably loaded.
I have been told by experts that a century old black powder charge is as potent as the day it was rammed home.
People should know if their gun is loaded.
When I was a child we had an old muzzleloader in the closet that nobody knew anything about and which was thought to be loaded, so everybody – except me – was scared to death of it. I was fascinated by it but I was scared to death of the beating I’d get if I messed with it, so I too left it alone. From my memories of it, it was in excellent condition but I really can’t remember enough to know just what sort of weapon it was. My speculation is that it was a percussion shotgun because I remember there being percussion caps in a tin box in the clock in my grandparents’ bedroom. Kids did “plunder” in those days. ‘Course, it might have been a Civil War Enfield or Lorenz with documentable provenance and worth a Helluva lot more than the $12 my grandmother sold it for to some tobacco dealer in town for tobacco auction time.
In any event, a muzzleloader even if loaded with powder and shot is relatively harmless unless it has a cap in it or a flint and powder in the pan in the case of a flintlock. While they can be left loaded, you shouldn’t, especially in a damp environment because the powder is very corrosive. If the screw on the ramrod doesn’t work to unload one, there are some excellent kits that inject CO2 from a cartridge like you use for pellet guns to eject the powder and shot, but do it outside. I’ve had failures a few times with both my muskets, both percussion, and my solution is FFFF powder in the touchhole and a new cap; worked everytime so far. Even though my Enfield and my Hawken use FF or FFF powder, I always have a little bag of FFFF in my “possibles bag” just for failures to fire. I should buy one of those CO2 rigs but I’ve never gotten around to it and they’re more of a hassle to carry than just a little bag of powder and a spout.
The irony is that the musket came into wide use in militaries because it was so much easier to use effectively than was a bow or crossbow. It wasn’t until the repeating rifle came into use in the mid-to-late 19th Century that musket/rifle armed infantry could match the rate of fire of skilled bowmen, but the musket was so much easier to load, aim, and fire reasonably accurately than was a bow. I read somewhere that Lord Wellington wanted to raise a unit of longbowmen during the Napoleonic Wars but found that the skill simply didn’t exist anymore.
I got a copy of Gilliam’s Manual, the most common early Confederate military manual, and decided to teach myself to “load and fire in 12 times” and meet the Civil War training standard of three aimed rounds in a minute. (The Yankees and later Confederates as well used Hardee’s Manual, which used a nine step system to load, aim, and fire a rifled musket.) I spent a lot of time practicing and finally was able to – barely – get off three aimed rounds from a P1853 Enfield in a minute except I was doing it at the range; those guys could do it running across an open field under fire!
Even with modern powder with minimal impurities, my Enfield is almost impossible to reload after ten or twelve rounds due to fouling. Part of that is because modern minie balls are harder and more precisely molded to .577 than the pretty much interchangeable .577 Enfield or .58 Sprinfield of the Civil War, both of which were small and soft so that they could be loaded much more easily. A CW infantryman could set a ball with his thumb or the heel of his hand; credit a lot of drill and tough callouses on the thumb or heel of the hand, but I don’t care how tough you are, you aren’t going to seat a modern ball with your thumb or the heel of your hand. If you’ve practiced a bit, you can seat it enough to fairly reliably ram it, but you’re a lot better off with the ball-seating tool. Confederate powder especially was very low quality. While the CS built the Augusta powder plant from scratch in an amazingly short time and had prodigious production, the CSA was almost devoid of saltpeter (potassium nitrate) and went so far as to collect the “night soil” in the more urbanized areas to extract saltpeter from human urine, and even from hog pens. It was said that everytime a Southern woman relieved herself, she helped kill a Yankee. In any event, the fouling must have been awful and in prolonged engagement, the men ran out of water to cleanse the barrel and often resorted to urinating down the barrel to clear the fouling. Talk about a prescription for gangrene: a ball lubricated with animal fat, fired through a barrel “washed” with human urine, that when it struck a man penetrated through usually filthy layers of uniform and undergaments and brought some of all these things with it into the unfortunate soul’s body with enough horsepower to shatter any bones it struck along the way. A 450 grain minie launched by 60 or more grains of black powder packs one Hell of a wallop.
“A 450 grain minie launched by 60 or more grains of black powder packs one Hell of a wallop”
In modern ballistics terms, it was large scale combat with 20 gauge shotgun slugs…a ghastly thought.
As far as difficulty “seating the ball” werent your Minie’ balls a bit undersized? I recollect they were “bullets” with hollow skirts, undersized to the bore to make loading easier(the skirts expanding upon firing for accuracy). Mine darn near fell halfway down the barrel when loading, (no lube, no patch) and I used the ram rod just to make sure it was “all the way”…all that excess room being the “fudge factor” to compensate for fouling when shooting repeatedly.
Granted, mine was (an original) 61 Springfield, with a mildly worn bore (rifling fully present, but 130 years old at the time)and I never fired more than 20 per range visit.
And I know for certain I never got to “3 per minute” level proficiency!
Horror of horrors to the “collector crowd” that I fired her at all, I was quite slow and steady, to minimize any new nicks and dings to her.
20 guage shotgun slugs fired from a rifled barrel and deadly accurate out to 300 yds. in the hands of a good marksman, lethal in any hands at 100 yds. There were only three or four real “stand up” fights that I know of in the Civil War: Fredericksburg, Gettysburg on the 2nd and 3rd days, Cold Harbor, and Franklin, and all of them ended very badly for the attackers. I’ve stood behind that wall on Marye’s Hill at Fredericksburg and I can’t imaging being one of those Yankees looking up that hill. At least Cemetery Ridge at Gettysburg has some swales and defiles where you can get a little relief and regroup, Marye’s Hill is absolutely unreleived. Grant’s head on attack against hastily entrenched Confederates at Cold Harbor killed 7000 of his men in 20 minutes. Well actually laying on the field unattended for three days is what killed most of them, because Grant wouldn’t ask for a truce, an admission of defeat, to get his wounded off the field. For all practical purposes, Union troops mutinied when ordered to form up for a second attack; many of the officers refused to even give the order.
Civil War minie balls or balls made from period or good reproduction hand molds are smaller and the seats thinner and thus softer than modern minie balls from the gun store. You can get period authentic ones, but they’re hand made and expensive. Since they won’t even let you take a ramrod on the field at reenactments, there is only a limited interest in actually firing even the reproduction weapons fully loaded, though there are some groups that do competitive shooting with Civil War weapons.
I had an original Springfield that came from my first wife’s family but the gunsmith that checked it out advised against ever firing it. Don’t have it or her anymore. I have a Eurorarms reproduction P1853 Enfield defarbed by The Blockade Runner” to look like an early CS import such as would have been issued to 1862 enlistees to the PACS. I also have all the Enfield accoutrement including both the enlisted man and the NCO’s tools for it and a defarbed Indian production bayonet – wicked looking thing! One of my gg/grandfathers was a sargeant and he was issued the two-band Enfield with the sword bayonet. Those are cool-looking weapons. While the 2-bands are authentic, most reenactments won’t allow them because the shorter barrel poses too much risk of injury to the front rank. The next most common weapon after the Springfields and Enfields were the .54 Lorenz rifled muskets imported by the CS from Austria and in very common use in the Western Confederate armies. I’d like to have a reproduction of one of those but I don’t know of one. I’ve seen originals and compared to Springfields and especially Enfields, the Lorenz is a very crudely made weapon though it was effective and well liked by the troops.
None of my ancestors were firebrands so they all waited until the Georgia draft of 4 March 62 to “volunteer” for CS service. Georgia Governor Joe Brown believed that the CS Conscription Act was unconstitutional so he assembled the Georgia Militia, all men of military age not otherwise exempted or enlisted in the PACS, on 4 Mar 62, at which assembly they were “invited” to volunteer for PACS service and if there weren’t enough “volunteers” there would be a draft by the State of Georgia. At times Joe Brown seemed more at war with the CS than the US.
After ready all the mishmash, I will offer my thoughts once again:
Most any of the side arms will give you suitable personal protection.
1) I got my wife a S&W .22/32 kit gun (.22 caliber on a .32 frame) in
1957 although the knockdown power of a .22 long rifle was less than I liked.
2) The thought of any automatic jamming or malfunctioning was troubling.
3) She soon mastered the .22 and started on a .38 special with no trouble.
4) I got each of my three boys a Ruger Single Six before they started to U.T.
The guys had no problem with these Bill Ruger two cylinder revolvers and
felt comfortable with the knockdown power (momentum = mv) of the
.22 magnum in a 5 inch barrel with the little 40 grain bullet. They also felt that they could cock the hammer before a hit intruder could regain his faculties.
The kinetic energy of the bullet (Integral of the pressure-volume curve down the barrel (ke=mvXv/2) is very near the .38 special snub nose.
5) There are numerous other suitable choices for close range personal defense,
I have read many foolish statements on this subject, such as low velocity
requiring an adjustment for trajectory, etc. A common pistol bullet will not drop much in 100 feet, just forget it.
I have been a registered professional engineer for 55 years, specialize in shock (including nuclear) and impact loads, and do not feel I am rendering a layman’s thoughts.
Thank you for the time and tolerance.
Houston Humphries
There is no “knockdown power” with any handgun. If you are talking about a Barrett in .50 BMG, you can talk about vaporizing power, but it’s still not “knockdown” power.
I do not understand how a person hit by a projectile of a given weight, size and velocity can determine if it were fired by a pistol or a rifle. Perhaps your definition of “knockdown power” and the method of such determination will prove
most enlightening. Have at it. Houston
Get yourself a can of WASP SPRAY an/or a can of grizzley bear -pepper spray, if you are not “feeling it” to own a firearm, I learned this in a Refuse to be a Victim class recently, of course there are tons of other ways to protect oneself/others however these come to mind for the emailer who said they for whatever reasons don’t own any firearms. Dogs are great and you can help save a dog or more than one dog since they need company too, and while you save their lives (like from a kill shelter or off the street like my dogs) they may in turn save your life too.
Wasp spray! Now why didn’t I think of that? How likely is it vs. pepper spray to accidentally discharge in a backpack, pocketbook, or wherever one is carrying it?
Hmmm. Wasp spray….. On humans….
“It is a violation of federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. ”
Yeah, I seem to remember reading that somewhere…
How about under the broad definition of self defense? Do we have any anecdotes on this stuff having been used on humans, bears, dogs, or varmints??
“Hello, 911, I seem to have this blind guy stumbling around my yard and bumping into things. He’s making a hell of a racket; could you send someone by to pick him up?”
There you go with that common sense thing again.
Do you really think a federal bureaucrat will care about your need for self-defense?
In Alaska, you know how we tell brown bear scat from black bear scat? The brown bear scat has little bells in it and smells like pepper. 12 guage, always a 12 guage!
A female family friend had a window broken at 3 am last month. The perp remained long enough to see what happened, if anything, when he broke the window (which took two swings of his hammer, tempered glass don’t you know). So she hears a mighty thump, then about 30 seconds later a glass crash. She jumps out of bed, grabs for the mattress-side holster and pulls out her Sig .380, racks one, and shouts “I’ve got a gun and I will use it!” Then she hears fast footsteps as he runs off.
The moral? Most such crime is step by step opportunism. He tried to break the window. No alarm went off, no lights came on. He tried again and succeeded. Then he stood at the window and waited to see if anything would happen. What he heard convinced him the opportunity was not there and he hit the road.
If he had heard nothing after breaking the glass, he’d have gone in. And so on, step by step. No telling if he would have hurt her or killed her or what. He probably had no idea what he would do. He was just testing with each step.
She did exactly the right thing. Once she’s shouted that, if he comes in after her she knows for sure he is a real danger to her and she is ready to shoot. But the shout was all it took.
She is 55, lives alone, has a permit and practices with gusto. God bless Texas.
She should have dialed 911 first.
How do you know that? If this woman had cause to believe she was in imminent danger her first imperative was to defend herself. It’s not always a textbook scenario.
Dialing 911 is great, IF YOU HAVE THE FEW SECONDS TO DO IT. Not having been there, I don’t know if this lady had that opportunity. Personally, I go for stealth. I don’t know if the burglar is armed, if he has buddies, or what the hell is going on.
Stay quiet until you have some idea of the situation. THEN act.
After ready all the mishmash, I will offer my thoughts once again:
Most any of the side arms will give you suitable personal protection.
1) I got my wife a S&W .22/32 kit gun (.22 caliber on a .32 frame) in
1957 although the knockdown power of a .22 long rifle was less than I liked.
2) The thought of any automatic jamming or malfunctioning was troubling.
3) She soon mastered the .22 and started on a .38 special with no trouble.
4) I got each of my three boys a Ruger Single Six before they started to U.T.
The guys had no problem with these Bill Ruger two cylinder revolvers and
felt comfortable with the knockdown power (momentum = mv) of the
.22 magnum in a 5 inch barrel with the little 40 grain bullet.
They also felt that they could cock the hammer before a hit intruder could
regain his faculties. The kinetic energy of the bullet
Integral of the pressure-volume curve down the barrel (ke=mvXv/2)
is very near the .38 special snub nose.
5) There are numerous other suitable choices for close range personal defense,
I have read many foolish statements on this subject, such as low velocity
requiring an adjustment for trajectory, etc. A common pistol bullet will not drop
much in 100 feet, just forget it.
I have been a registered professional engineer for 55 years, specialize in shock
(including nuclear) and impact loads, and do not feel I am rendering a layman’s
thoughts.
Thank you for the time and tolerance.
Houston Humphries
“courses that teach you to think defensively and to be aware of your surroundings so that you avoid dangerous situations in the first place”
Didn’t John Derbyshire get in trouble for writing something like that?
Oh, no, not this. You should instead say, “Fortunately, that is all the statutory obstacles most states erect between a person and his or her ability to exercise a basic human right; though a few are more enlightened.”
Whether a person should get lots of training, and carry out an adequate amount of ongoing practice, is not the question (of course they should!) The question, rather, is whether the government should be free to take away peoples’ rights until they jump through X amount of hoops.
I owned a handgun for several years while living in northern California. I learned the basics from the NRA. However, shooting at the range never did much for me. I soon learned that having the pistol in an apartment or house was as much of a trap as anything else. I never had faith in the scenario that a determined robber would flee if faced with a weapon – or that he/she would not be carrying one himself. I also felt (with justification) that using a weapon on an intruder in a liberal state such as CA is a recipe for trouble with the authorities.
Perhaps it’s a good idea if you have very valuable property, live in a non-liberal area – and are both safe with the weapon and comfortable in quick use. Otherwise..
So let me get this straight…
You think it’s better to be killed than prosicuted?
Mr. and Mrs. Goldmark thought as you do.
Who are they – the couple near Phoenix?
You don’t know ‘how I think’ – I am simply saying you had better be extremely well-prepared, including for felony conviction, if you use a firearm in a liberal jurisdiction in any circumstance. Please tell me that this is not so.
look up – Goldmark David Louis Rice – on google
Depending on which “liberal jurisdiction”, definitely not so. Seattle is as liberal as they come (they keep sending Jim F’n McDermitt to Congress, for heaven’s sake!) and there’s no hostility to self-defense from prosecutors here.
And by “Northern California” do you mean the Bay Area, or the real Northern California? Because most rural sheriffs in CA are actually fairly permissive in their issuance of concealed-carry permits; I would have thought their corresponding prosecutors’ offices would be similarly minded.
If you consider your family, wife, children, grandchildren valuable property then you should have a weapon in the house.
The TV, computer, laptop or sound system nor money is as valuable as that nor is it considered worth killing someone over.
Massad Ayoob who has been mentioned elsewhere in the comments has said something like pulling the trigger to kill somebody is the worst thing that can happen except for you to not pull that trigger.
Taking a life should not be done casually, regardless of the laws but if the alternative is the loss of your life or the life of other innocents, it may be the best of bad alternatives.
I never had faith in the scenario that a determined robber would flee if faced with a weapon – or that he/she would not be carrying one himself.
If a “determined robber” comes into my house, you’re right, he’s probably not going to flee–instead he’ll go out feet-first, in a rubber bag.
Bob – your writting is excellent – spare and informative –
and most of the comments are go too – and staying on topic – which is problematic on many gun threads as, everyone has different experience and situations – and those two things make fundamental differences in your life, with or without weapons.
unmentioned so far, as a training venue – is the U.S.Army, and other organized military entities
it is a lot longer than a 4 day course, more like 2 years — at a minimum —
this time commitment is often difficult for older or middle age people – too many other commitments
but for young people, it’s good thing to do – they will get you in shape, and they will teach you how to shoot – and how to be disciplined about both – and they – pay you – how bad is that –
downside is the 2 years, and conforming to the orders, , training regime – official – part – i didn’t do well at that – but being this was 1969 – they did train me to shoot – accurately and how to handle a battle field personal high fire rate rifle, as well as other things – i liked that part — but i went on to field medic training down in Texas, and then was assigned to an old not-on-base hospital in Germany –
and this experience has made me think of a related subject — which is complicated in the civilian world, and varies from State to State, as well as Federal —
gunshot and other wounds are often survivable, with immediate, trained, help — not so good if left laying where they fell – they tend to choke, or bleed out —
so, as long as were talking about getting shot or shooting someone – perhaps some ideas about how to help someone who has been shoot – you, your family, the intruders, and sometimes unintended consequences, which can be an unknown passer by – to cats and dogs – would fit in —
and it’s basically very simple in outline 1) clear the airway – if you can’t breathe, you will dine in a few minutes
2) stop the bleeding – as you will die within an hour or less or more, depending on the wound – your blood pressure drops – your organs fail – you dead. and 3) treat for shock — we used simple auto-injecting vials of morphine – but you have to be careful – the idea is to stop the panic, the pain, – the psychology of shock – this includes intrvenus drips to keep body fluids up – and other stuff, but that probably goes beyond the average civilians event probability — good to know, but probably will not happen often – but useful for many other major injury causes – like car crashes, and many other unexpected events.
4) evacuate to a competent facility as soon as possible – field combat Doctors have a lot of training and experience with these sorts of wounds – so get an injured person to them as fast as possible –
and then – there is choice – do you want them to live? – certainly if they are innocents, not so sure about an attacker – depends – - but it’s something to think about as you gain the capability to shoot any living being, or get shot.
Thanks for your service…
The military is an honorable thing and more good men are always needed.
As far as “tactical shooting” I learned more as a Law Enforcement officer than I did as Marine Infantry.
Two different world, war fighting against other armed units, and personal self defense against one or two individuals. Very little realistic “pistol training” in the Marine Corps unless you go to MP school or Embassy Duty, and even then its not as in-depth as you’d think. Not to gripe, but the Corps is more concerned about the mission than YOU…your job is to DO your job, staying alive if you CAN. They only care about you getting killed because it hurts the mission, and I’m totally fine with that.
Police/self defense work is totally different. Ricochet and over-penetration. is a major no-no in small town USA, whereas in the Corps its wining the lottery. Two-fer-one specials, or killing them while theyre eating lunch with their weapon leaning against a tree, gits you a medal.
On the street or in your living room, it gets you jailed
The NRA runs a Law Enforcement support division, if you can get to some of their “support schools” for Firearms Instructors, you’ll learn some good stuff…practical, effective training skills and especially liability issues…a lot of really good How and Why bullets/training/events/perceptions/documentation/lawyers all interact…really eye-opening stuff for a Dumb Grunt like me who thought to “kill the enemy!” was the final word…
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt (literally).
The U.S. military does a LOUSY job of teaching defensive handgun use, or defensive shotgun use, for that matter.
Elite units aside, of course.
A good discussion. I learned a lot. I grew up with guns – rifles, shotguns and a big old horse pistol. Shot them all and killed a lot of pests like porcupines and woodchucks. So I understand what guns are and respect them but am not fearful of them. But when it cam right down to carrying a pistol about 20 years ago in West Texas where I was buying used vehicles with cash, I found myself saying no to many offers of the loan of my friends spare pistols. (Folks in West Texas have spare, spare pistols.) Like Bret above – it just wasn’t me. I understood that the blue rinse lady in the line ahead of me probably had a pistol in her purse, was prepared to use it, and might well be able to shoot the pips out of a playing card. But, when given the option I knew having a pistol in my pocket would completely throw off my sense of social danger because I would be too focused on myself and the responsibility of carrying a weapon and not naturally reading the situation. As it happens I don’t live in the US anymore, but if i did I would seriously consider concealed carry but only after doing the kind of training and mental preparation outlined in this series of articles.
not a dissimilar observation than my own — i don’t usually carry hand or rifle firearms, unless i am home by myself – and our laws are Constitutional – we can carry open or concealed, long gun or hand – with no permit or training requirements — as described as our right in the 2nd amendment —
this goes directly to situational awareness – and circumstances – if your not in a car, or airplane, etc – you are unlikely to be injured by them – we have the most – liberal – in the old sense – Constitutional gun laws – and – the least amount of gun crime – shootings – in this Nation – and a long family tradition of hunting and/or target shooting, home learning, when young – and the highest rate per capita of military service – in this Nation – - should lead to some conclusions
“Home learning, when young”. That brought up something that should have been mentioned long before now. I’m long past the point where there would be small children in our home but many families are thinking about home defense. Trying to hide a firearm from a small child is next to impossible but gun proofing your child is not. Again, the NRA has an excellent program called Eddie Eagle. Even if you don’t have a gun in the home it teaches youngsters what to do if they find a gun. The main premise is ” Stop, don’t touch, tell an adult”. The NRA also has many excellent gun handling programs for children whose parents are interested in training them.
Untrained children have caused many accidents in homes with firearms many times with disastrous results. This is something you have to weigh very carefully if you have children and are thinking about gun ownership. I was around nine years old when I got my first gun, not counting my BB gun of course. Since my dad was not a gun person he got with a family friend, a WWII Marine Vet, to teach me safe handling techniques and respect for the power now in my hands. Treating a gun as the “Forbidden Fruit” won’t work with kids, it just makes them want it more. Hidden? Kids will find it. Locked up? Kids will find the key. At home and at the range “show and tell” is the best way to teach a kid how to be safe around firearms and it can be a really fun time for them and you.
Short anecdote to this, a man had a small pistol he had hidden in the top of his closet and had a loaded magazine he kept in a dresser drawer. His young son found the magazine one day when he was home alone. This sent him on a quest. He finally found the handgun and figured out how to insert the magazine from watching TV. He even figured out how to work the slide. He didn’t, however figure out the safety and soon grew tired of playing with daddy’s gun. He very carefully took the magazine back out of the gun put the gun and mag back where he had found them and forgot about it. Quite awhile later the father decided to clean the gun. He checked for a magazine, noticed the hammer back so he pulled the trigger not checking to see if there was a round in the chamber. Luckily no one was injured.
Another, as was mentioned earlier about black powder. If you watch the show Pawn Stars you might have seen the episode where a man brought in a rifle from his great grand daddy’s service in the Civil War. To be safe they checked it and sure enough it was loaded.
Perry,
Eddie Eagle is simply THE best program their is. Amazing how effective a simple, truthful, and non-political stance on a subject can be isnt it? Any wonder why we’re on THIS side of the political fence, verses the lie, spin, innuendo, lie, wink, nod and conspire to “sell” a story, that is the bedrock of the other?
I agree on “hiding” guns. Small “mobile” kids who are too young for Eddie Eagle are tough to protect if you want a loaded firearm “handy” for self defense. Dont think the “cant” exert 15 pounds on a long trigger, like a traditional double action revolver. They can and they will eventually get around to doing it using BOTH THUMBS….usually while holding it upside down with the muzzle in their face. Same with a double action auto.
Lock it up, or keep it secured on your person.
I doubt they could rack the slide of a typical “duty stlye” auto if you keep the chamber empty, but why risk it when some pretty decent and effective “adult access” safe storage systems are out their to evaluate?
Lock it up, or keep it secured on your person.
Don’t get ahead of me, Perry. I’m ending the series with a safety talk.
English Warning To Americans: DONT GIVE UP YOUR GUNS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCkr2psNvCs&feature=youtu.be
Let me think:
jd asks: “You think it’s better to be killed than prosicuted?”
Good question that might stump a nitwit. Evidently, they are not all that rare.
My previous comments about a revolver (perhaps a Ruger .22 magnum were intended for a person that must carry his piece in an auto or be on the move.
Strictly for use in the home, a pump shotgun with buckshot is the only weapon to consider.
Houston Humphries Let me think:
jd asks: “You think it’s better to be killed than prosicuted?”
Good question that might stump a nitwit. Evidently, they are not all that rare.
My previous comments about a revolver (perhaps a Ruger .22 magnum were intended for a person that must carry his piece in an auto or be on the move.
Strictly for use in the home, a pump shotgun with buckshot is the only weapon to consider. Keep 4 shells in the magazine (remove plug if req’d), and the barrel empty. If the weapon is knocked over by the housekeeper or some kid, those shells in the magazine are harmless. If an intruder is suspected, throw a shell in the barrel. He will know what that sound is. If he does not retreat, stay put.
Do not go after him, let him come to you. Four shells are ample; there will not be that many intruders ready to die. The fellow may be on dope, but still unable to withstand a load of buckshot (12 or 20 gauge) in the chest.
You will have a bloody mess and booqoo policemen in the house. Handy point, if he is only part way in, you could see the moonlight (or street) gleaming on his barrel.
Don’t hesitate when your life is on the line, a cop would not.
Houston Humphries
one way to be sure a rifle or semi-auto pistol is clear — is a cleaning snake — clean the barrel with it after shooting, then just pull it half way though, so a bit of the snake is hanging out the barrel, and a bit is hanging out the breach — with the snake obviously in the barrel, it is unlikely to have a round in there too – and it helps keep the barrel in good shape, as moisture is less likely to intrude –
it can quickly be removed, and the firearm then loaded – this is our usual rural non-concealed carry method –
won’t work well for cc urban situations, – but does for home storage, especially if you have kids or visitors
i have neither kids nor guests in the house, and keep my door locked – so i often have loaded firearms — that are then immediately available for use — depends on your situation and experience – our concern is animals, not humans – and that is a significant difference –
and yes – if you have kids, and they are not mature and trained, then you must try your best to lock the firearms up, and keep the cartridges separate from the firearm —
my own Human threat level here is near zero, so i don’t carry concealed nor have the concerns more urban people do – different situation, so different controls and methods to insure safety –
if you have the time, and desire — the goal with a hand gun is – one hand – running sideways – and no sights – - this is hard to do – but can be done — the stationary stance, with a two hand grip, and using the sights is probably as far as most people will get to — this for very short range medium caliber hand guns — in emergency -
shooting a beer can at 50 yds, with a stationary stance, and a two handed grip — is a lot different from shooting at an animal that is moving, while you are moving, especially if that animal is shooting back at you –
there is so much variation due to circumstances, that it is near impossible to define a one size works, situation –
I like the .22 — shot placement takes care of the low power – head, spine, nerve path – get those, and it will stop
probably the best handgun for most is the .357 / .38 revolver – simple, works quickly, a bit loud
then the semi auto – the ,45 is good — i use a .40 —
Home defense – a shot gun, 12 ga. – this is a loud weapon, it’s advantage is it’s cartridge – big.
but it is not for lightweights, and must be used in practice as much as any other firearm – and it hurts to fire, and is very loud .. I think eon suggested an old fashion 2 short barrel ‘coach gun’ – and I agree with him – that should do for home defense – and is easy to operate and reload – I personally choose a 9 shot single barrel pump action – but, – it’s a big heavy long noisy thing — if your not used to it, could be a problem.
there are very few wars that are fought with hand guns, or shot guns – they have their purpose, and most militaries use them – but in general they use a rifle – and there is a reason for that – distance –
home defense usually involves very close distance encounters – unexpected, and you have no backup -and must respond quickly, and usually from sleep – - so – a good revolver, semi-auto pistol – short shot gun is appropriate for that –
a .22 – a 357/.40/45 and a 12 gauge – for short distance, home defense, is where you should aim at – get good with those — and then you can move on to long distance rifles –
the modern military style .223 – to – .308 rifles / carbines might be all you need – one caliber, one weapon, keep it simple. i prefer the .243 – not a military caliber, but good for most everything else.
one thing I like – is a single caliber choice – in both a hand gun and a carbine – so your only dealing with one size cartridge – for both short and longer range weapons – if you prefer old style weapons, and they are good – a revolver and a carbine in .357 / 38 works fine and i like old guns
- if you prefer modern semi-auto – a pistol and carbine in ,40 works — they both use the same cartridge, and magazine, in the semi-auto pistol and carbine- keeps it simple.
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