Should You Speak Now or Forever Hold Your Peace?
Dear Belladonna Rogers,
A close friend, Tina, who’s 25, plans to marry Geoff, 37. He’s Mr. Wrong. I care for Tina very much (she’s the great-niece of my closest friend and sorority sister, who died last year.) I don’t want to damage our friendship.
My batting average in predicting divorce before couples marry is 1.000. I’m also three times Tina’s age, and have seen a great deal of life. Do I have a duty to warn her? If so, how?
Worried in Waukegan
Dear Worried,
For today’s column, I polled a wide variety of friends and acquaintances, as well as some total strangers in line at Home Depot, where I’ve been stocking up on 100-watt incandescent light bulbs. One friend replied that there are two questions you should never ask. The first is, “What does he see in her?” and the second is, “What does she see in him?”
The consensus was to say nothing, unless dealing with your own child. Here’s why:
No one likes unsolicited advice. Love is not only blind, it’s also deaf. People believe they know themselves and their intended spouses better than anyone else. They don’t like meddlers. They bridle at being told what to do. They often reject the adviser along with the advice — permanently. People don’t think it’s anyone else’s business whom they choose to marry.
I think these dilemmas come in two types. The first is when you do have a duty to warn a friend or anyone else in your life. All the rest — the vast majority — are of the second type, where you have no such obligation. These are optional. Whether you intervene depends on how strongly you feel and how outspoken you are. Be prepared to be rebuffed in any event.
WHEN YOU HAVE AN AFFIRMATIVE DUTY TO WARN
You have a duty to warn Tina if you’re certain Geoff will cause her permanent physical harm or such severe emotional injury that it’s the psychological equivalent of grave physical damage.
Even at the risk of angering Tina, or causing her to break off relations with you entirely, you must warn her if you’re sure, based on conclusive evidence, that she will inevitably be the victim of grave physical or psychological abuse.
If it turns out that Tina was already aware of this, your task could well be impossible if Geoff is a skilled manipulator who has succeeded in making her believe that her only chance for happiness lies with him. Once forged, such unions are difficult for others to sever. Years, often decades, pass before the victim is able to break free. As often as not, they never do.
If your concerns are grave enough, you may forever regret not warning a friend, and may blame yourself later if terrible harm comes to her and you held your tongue when it might have helped to speak your mind.
SITUATIONS THAT WILL TEMPT YOU TO INTERVENE BUT ARE OPTIONAL
If your qualms are based on your belief that Tina’s marriage will lead to what Sigmund Freud called “ordinary unhappiness,” which he distinguished from “hysterical misery,” I don’t recommend intervening. If you find Geoff boring and fear that she will, too, say nothing.
If you know that Tina’s attraction is based on Geoff’s sexual appeal and you think he’s a cad lacking the requisite integrity to sustain a long-term marriage in a monogamous relationship, it’s unlikely she’ll pay any attention. She’ll claim that “no one knows him as well as I do.” The best way for her to come to her senses is if she sees Geoff with another woman. Hearing that others have seen him two-timing her will have little to no effect, alas.
Well, one thing I have never been accused of, is remaining silent when someone needs a good smack upside the head when necessary.
First off, never, ever, (did I say ever yet?) stick your nose into a personal relationship that does not include you as a primary member. I did once, and will never do it again. Think sister who was hurt by a lover and then a few years later they married. Think now 20 years later and getting together at family get togethers. Of course that is just a singular example so do not take it as a proof of a thesis. It is only one test in a thesis.
As for warning, what is the purpose of warning someone about possible future problems in a relationship? Life is not about non conflict, it is about life and experiences. If I never hit my thumb with that hammer once (okay, it was about 5 times, but I did learn it hurt each and every time) I would not have learned a lesson.
Matters of the heart are something no one should ever attempt to get into with friends or non immediate family members. What I mean by non immediate, is anyone that is not your progeny. Attempting to tell a father or mother not to mess with their kids is like asking Obama not to spend money frivolously. Ain’t gonna happen.
Now, for the only advice that I would recommend. You will be there for them no matter what they need. Of course that is what you tell your friends and family whenever you can. So they should already know that.
As for the possibility of danger, I would not direct any information at all to my friend. Instead I would channel my inner neanderthal and inform said moron of the statistics of unsolved disappearances per year. Now this is in regard to only a possibility of danger. In the clear and present danger that I know of as a fact, well I would not want to talk about that in polite company.
Now, in regard to knowing of things like infidelity or say criminal activity of a friend’s friend or future spouse, I would will not go there because I do not actually know or perceive all of the ramifications. This I will leave to others to inform me.
Belladonna and Kramer have hit the nail right on the head. I have in the past offered advice–I said no, don’t marry that one–and in both cases I was right. But I would rather–with hindsight–not have said anything. It was stupid–even arrogant– of me to have done so. It achieved nothing except that it gave me several years later the temptation to say “I told you so.” But I overcame that temptation. I did learn that my advice was not really wanted. I was asked by people hoping that I would give my approval and blessings to the events. I should have run very fast away from the question. I should have had a strong urge to go to the bathroom, to tie my shoe, to see if my parked car was still idling—whatever. Belladonna adds an interesting element, though. Do you know of any felonious or dangerous aspects of the selected person? That does change the equation. But your proof needs be pretty darn good. Otherwise be prepared to lose both your case and your friendship. Generally speaking, this sort of question is not healthy, from anyone’s point of view. The answer you provide will not be listened to. I can see no good coming from giving any kind of an answer.
If the girl is young and good-looking, perhaps she’ll believe you when you say she could do better. But, what if she’s not young and not good-looking (by male standards)? Then, she may prefer a less-than-perfect mate to no mate at all. When you wonder what she sees in him, maybe the answer is, “…her only chance to avoid life alone.” If you don’t like her choice (if it is a choice and not a single opportunity), perhaps you should slyly engineer meetings with some better choices that might be available to her.
I have expressed (unsolicited) concerns several times over the years to “friends” who are getting married. It’s a quick way to end a shallow relationship.
I’m not exaggerating that I have be asked a half dozen times what I thought of a prospective mate by people who have sworn to me that my advice and counsel was only overshadowed by God himself in their eyes.
Once again, although the explosion may have taken place in slow motion, our relationship self-destructed. What they really wanted was for me to give my seal of approval to them so they could justify (likely over their own concerns) the marriage.
Even though, like “worried” wrote, I’m batting 1000% (I hate ALWAYS being right), the relationships never re-established after the marriages/relationships failed. I’ve yet to have one person come up to me and say “Wow, you were right on the mark. I made a mistake”.
I ALWAYS end up being the bad guy.
So I don’t give much advise anymore. The cost is way too high.
I have had a number of friends who have made bad marriages which lasted for a while. My approach, which is culturally idiosyncratic is three-fold:
1. Do not react to the oafs on their own terms: good chance they will embarrass themselves at some point.
2. Just cut them out before and after, but say nothing critical, just don’t make yourself available for the drama in any way, shape, or form.
3. Again, put your feelings aside or keep them off the table: keep the door open but do not invite. No point in putting more burdens on someone who is in a self-created situation.
Again my advice is culturally determined and I know that some cultures in the US are far more intrusive, caring if you must, than mine. Do not forget that your so-called altruism can be no more than self-indulgent, and perhaps in fact pathological for all concerned.
The time to give advice is before the other person gets involved with someone. Tell them to look out for people with bad character. After they get involved, it’s too late. My wife tried this, and as JW says, it’s a quick way to end a shallow (or even not so shallow) friendship.
Whether or not I’d warn my close friend about his potentially disastrous marriage probably depends on a case-by-case weighing of several variables. The closest analogies that come to mind are doctrines relating to the use of force, such as the “just war” doctrine, or legal justifications for the use of force. (Yes, this idea probably seems strange at first, but I think makes sense when we realize that, regardless of our own good intentions, to our friend/relative, our warning will probably feel like violence being practiced on him or her, and may provoke similar extreme, unpredictable consequences.)
So, for example, if we analogize from the “just war” doctrine, our warning to our friend is advisable if (and only if) all the following conditions are met:
• the damage to be inflicted on our friend by his marriage to his fiancé, and/or on his relationships with other very important people in his life, must be lasting, grave, and certain;
• all other means of preventing such damage must be shown to be impractical or ineffective;
• there must be serious prospects of success (i.e., that our friend will heed our warning); and
• the warning to our friend must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated.
My only other thought is that I sure wish some close friend or relative had applied this theory and warned me 38 years ago! That first youthful, unhappy, and mercifully short marriage could have been avoided!
One approach is to explore in conversation with your friend the potential mate’s suitability as a parent. Someone with the potential to respect others, be honest, share the limelight, work as a team, sacrifice for the good of someone else, listen, be patient–characteristics of a good parent–is also likely to be a good spouse. Your friend who is infatuated for the wrong reasons may be willing to overlook selfishness and narcissism in a potential mate as they affect him or herself. But they may evaulate a potential spouse differently once they understand that they are also selecting a parent for their children and a partner in the challenging work of raising them.
This strikes me as extremely good advice. It gets people thinking without reflexively raising the hackles of defensiveness… very nice.
I agree. Excellent advice.
Another yes here! It keeps things simple, and no advice need be offered. But gives one’s friend plenty to think about on her own.
Hokay. Great-niece? of sorority sister? Okay, so there’s a sorority sister. I’m vague about how close one can be, in that circumstance. Then her sister, who she’s really related to, biologically, and all that, has a kid. And that kid has a kid. That’s the girl you are talking about? That’s three grown women between her and you. Did they all make disastrous marriages? Or just ones you enjoy gossiping about?
You mention divorces- of these women, or others? B/c if it’s not these women- I’d stay quiet. The girl has seen successful marriages. She might not sound like a women’s magazine advice column, but she’s seen successful marriages up close. I’m inclined to believe that she’s seen close marriages, b/c she’s past her teens, presumably with a college degree- sorority women seem to raise sorority women- and has dated the man long enough to make the gossip rounds. She’s seen two generations of succesful marriages, of women that you know. You like them enough to remain intimately involved in the family.
However, it’s not your family. You don’t know how they estimate men. You don’t know what they really look for in a man. Or what the tells are, to use poker terms. Does he come to breakfast dressed, or in his robe? Does he have odd hobbies. For you- you might prefer a dressed man with no strange hobbies, while she prefers a guy who is avidly hungry and enthusiastic about the day, enough to jump out of bed and eat. You might like a “normal” guy, while she prefers one with individual interests and mastery, since he’ll stay happy and occupied, rather than getting bored and overstimulated by tv- thus setting himself up for a tawdry affair. For all you know, her dad cleaned just caught trout on the breakfast table, after spending the morning tying flies in his ratty pajama bottoms and ripped up, stained white teeshirt. and her mom cooked the fish for lunch, enjoying her manly man. And, then, he got dressed in a tuxedo for a New Year’s party, and that’s the only time you saw him.
And, your 100%ness…that’s been like shooting fish in a barrel with the silent and baby boom generation( tara parker pope wrote the book on the numbers). She’s not in that generation. She’s in the one coming up, which is brutally direct about the value of stable marriages. One of the most circulated internet stories is from the woman whose husband came in and said ” I want a divorce” and she said ” I can’t accept that” and they spent a year separate before coming back together. I’ve gotten that sent to me from every wife I know in email. And it’s shown up on message boards. That’s is loads different than the Lady’s Home Journal varieties of ways to stress your marriage a la falsified anthropology findings, or shoddy psychologizing.
Anecdotally, among my friends, marriage is not for the faint of heart(?) I guess is the way to put it. One husband said ” I want a divorce.” and the wife said ” No, you can’t have one. We have a daughter to raise. You don’t get to mess up her life.” And they were miserable for years, until they turned a corner. YEARS. But their daughter is happy, and they are happier than they ever imagined they could be.
Or another, the wife asked about American divorce customs, and the husband was ” you can’t get rid of me. I’m in your life, forever. why would you ask that? ” Which, in baby boom novels, would be the prelude for a stalker horror novel. As it is, they have are talking about their third child, they have wonderful kids, and they are happier than either ever expected to be. (catalogue bride, if you must know.) She feels like she’s living exactly in a Disney Princess movie- she really did get swept away by a far- away prince. In America? he’s not a prince- short, blue-collar job, heavy weekend drinker- to her(she’s really tiny- fifth graders are taller than her)- he’s tall and handsome and works hard all week with his hands, and deserves his time on the couch watching football. She bought them a big couch, so they could all cuddle up on him, while they watched the game together. He’s happier and less lonely than even he imagined was possible, when he was shopping, cash money, for the right girl. He couldn’t imagine a life with a wife, little girls and a dog, every last one of them looking up to him as the great big dad, and being proud of his grease-monkey job. He’s gone and gotten promotions, b/c he’s proud of himself and his work,now. It spills over.
I know him b/c he gives my son the hairy eye-ball when he plays with one of the daughters- you better believe she’ll marry up, if he has anything to do with it. I had to list out character references for him in first grade, for them to play together. He wouldn’t have passed his own list, in first grade. He’s a great dad, which is more than he imagined he’d ever be.
And, well, why is he unsuitable? His job? His career arc has peaked? He’s unemployed? He’s rude to you? He’s not her class, and he met her at work- and she’s a teacher, and he’s only ever going to be a teacher? Not a principal? Don’t laugh-that’s the criticism one guy got from his future MIL- they met while teaching. That they shared common values and interests wasn’t half as interesting as viewed lack of ambition to change his career. That he was a very good teacher didn’t really compute. And that that was what the girl admired- also didn’t compute. That he really thought he was making life better, and touching the future, inspiring greatness, etc etc etc.
Is it education? People get picky about schools, and credentials.
People who are married successfully have two main things in common: they have dated between six months and two years, and they want to be married to each other. That’s it. That’s all.
If she’s in the first six months, you can counsel waiting, to get to know him better, to firm up wedding plans, anything. After two years, there’s a chance they won’t marry. Unless either is a child of divorce. Then it’s just slow going, every step of the way. The boards on that staircase haven’t held, so it’s a slow climb of test and trust.
And, you aren’t mentioning wedding plans and dates. Lots of women wanted to marry David Coverdale of Whitesnake, or John Kennedy, Jr, or Robert Pattinson. Wanting to, and planning to, with deposits on the hall, are two very, very, very different things.
And, this disparaging of hot, smoking sex as a glue. 40% of marital happiness is directly related to sex. 40% is money. 20% is everything else. It’s why you’re really not supposed to hookup. You want fresh, active glue on your wedding night. It’s supposed to bind you together, and soothe the daily hurts. It’s expensive being frustrated- he spends money on porn, and she buys too many cashmere sweaters, to get a nice touch. It’s one reason haute couture has so many fittings- for a few really wealthy women, it’s the time they get handled with kindness. It’s in couturier’s memoirs, on a startlingly regular basis.
We keep circling to violence. But really, how many violent guys are there? I’m always impressed at the dowsing abilities of some women. Getting rid of one guy just means the next one has a new face, but the same habits. If that’s her schtick- point out that ruptured organs and brain damage are irreversible.
Why not ask her? Why, and what? and what for? she might surprise you.
After 48 years of marriage I became a widow. As I frequently look back on married life I realize that some of it was what Freud called ordinary unhappiness. There are probably very few marriages that would not include such periods. But then it also depends what we make of them. I believe that today young peoples’ romantic notions and expectations of marriage are unreasonably high. Friendship as defined should be a priority to marriage.
The only advice I would give, if asked, is that a future spouse should observe how the parents of the intended treat each other. For example, the future bride can expect to be treated similarly to the way the father of the future groom treats his mother. I suppose the same would work in reverse. Future mother in law is bossy, future groom can expect a bossy wife.
With all the divorces, separations, single parents and such, it may not be possible to observe both parents in action, but whenever possible, I think the advice stands.
If you don’t want to damage the friendship, say nothing. It won’t change her mind and will only solidify her attachment. This is out of your control.
One time my cousin asked me which of two men she should choose–she was torn between them. I advocated for the one she did NOT choose, and she didn’t speak to me for three years. She married and divorced the other guy in due time…
My sister didn’t appreciate all of us siblings warning her about marrying her first husband either–and they were unhappy for 17 years before they pulled the plug. But our warning was construed as meddling and judgmental overbearing behavior.
In neither case did my dear ones admit we were right…the situation had gotten too painful for any kind of “I told you so” either.
My response, based on this limited experience, is: if you are not asked, say nothing. And if you are asked, hedge.
The consensus here seems to be keep quiet unless there’s a VERY compelling reason to speak up, i.e. physical danger (or emotional/mental cruelty to the point it would be considered serious damage). I heartily agree, particularly if the couple is at the “we’re getting married!” stage; I don’t think G*d himself could stop that runaway train. But this advice applies from day one of what you think is an inappropriate relationship.
For instance, I lost my best friend of 13 yrs. over being asked my opinion (yes, ASKED) of her current love interest. I mean BEST friends; we’d even call each other to watch Miss America pgnt together over the phone. Between us, we stood the test of time through 2 marriages/divorces, 4 kids, single parenthood, horrid jobs, loss of close family … you name it. We were finalizing our small business plan when she tumbled and fell HARD for a miserable pr!ck of a man (and I use the latter word loosely). He’d invite her over, strictly for sex (he told her this), then tell her to leave because his friends had shown up and he was embarrassed to be seen with her. He said these things straight out, to her face. On our personal day that will live in infamy, she was cooing about how wonderful he was. I know my face changed color and my eyes bugged out, but I struggled to maintain control, successfully — until about the 55th time she pushed me to agree. I tried very hard to focus on her, our friendship, and business partnership, to no avail. I finally told her that she was, for reasons evidently known only to her, sabotaging her life all the way ’round. No chance of happiness, only: pain, degradation, diminishment, and depression. No one wants that for a friend! But 18 yrs. later, I still wonder what happened to her, because 3 days after this mess, she disappeared. As in, moved & left no forwarding address, changed phone #, pulled her kids out of school, just … gone.
So, no. It won’t help to say anything. Even if you’re 99% sure the worst scenario will prob. go down, the best 2 things to do: 1) slip an appropriate business card (lawyer? women’s shelter? psych counselor?) in her pocket/purse, with nothing on it from you. When she finds it, it will hopefully raise questions in her mind: “Who gave me this?” and more importantly, “Why?” The other best thing? 2) Pray. Hard.
I usually butt out. Maybe if advice is sought I’d offer up some neutral questions (i.e., what is is that makes you feel attracted to him?) to allow the person to think about the choice, but I’m sorry to say when younger and dumber every time someone I knew broke up with someone and I offered up my opinion that the breakup was for the best because it was a bad match, they ended up marrying each other.
I don’t know what I would do with someone closer–say a family member.Luckily that situation never presented itself. (I didn’t like my brother’s first wife but he was getting married to her when I first met her and they lived far away so there was no occasion to say anything until they were divorcing.)
You know someone by their friends. If you like his friends, he is probably a good guy. If he doesn’t have any friends, run.
Hmm. Polonius gave really bad advice to both Ophelia and Hamlet, right? I haven’t even seen the play, so I’m going off essays. They both ended up dead, and didn’t appreciate his insights ( or bad insights) in the first place?
It seems to me, for young princesses, the usual set up is: princess in her tower, king on his throne, and a knocking at the door: something shiny, impenetrable, and interested in the princess. Is it a prince, or a dragon? That’s what the king is there for, discernment. He used to be the prince, he knows one when he sees one. He also used to be the dragon (really, ask him what he was thinking about in high school) so he’s experienced.
Where’s this girl’s dad? If it’s divorce- eh- she’s in a purgatory that you don’t have the equipment to get her out of. Dead- get Catholic and pray that he intervenes on behalf of his daughter.
It seems like every worthwhile young man expects a worthwhile, canny, over- protective dad. Nobody really goes ” give me smelling salts” when a dad jokes about shotguns, or really is cleaning one when the young man picks her up on a date. There’s even that book ” ten things you should know before dating my daughter” or whatever it is. It didn’t flop as an artifact of patriarchal violence and oppression. Guys bought it, b/c they had someone saying what they said in their own heads, anyway.
There’s one dad I know who put his daughter in the front bedroom upstairs, with a balcony. And when a young man snuck in, and then lived to tell his friends, even from other mothers (!) the reaction was ” Why’d he put her in the front in the first place?” Not- “skanky ho- ette.” It was on the Dad to be mature and bleak and canny and untrusting of dragons. And, well, he didn’t. By a jury of his peers- he failed.
Now, there are four parts to your thought. He does X, which means in my experience Y, which means he’s unsuitable for marriage Z, to her Q.
We all keep jumping to Z and Q.
If you give feedback to her on X- which is concrete, observable actions, and you phrase it very personally–when he does something– you say ” I don’t like it when he calls you a fat cow.” ” I don’t like the way he eye-raped the waittress.” and then change sentences…she can pick that up, and put it in her pocket. You don’t say ” How can you let him call you a fat cow?” that’s coercing a response that she’s not capable of giving right now. Just observe and comment. She’ll remember the comments.
Second, x means y. The cure for this is not analyzing her situation. The cure for this is GOSSIP. Talk about everyone else you know who has been in similar situations and what they did, and how they thought about it, and how they changed. It’s how I ran my last sunday school class- treating the old testament like it were the national enquirer. mad popular class. if you are long-time friends, it’s time for a series of long, gossipy dinners ripping every loser you know to shreds. She should be a canny B***** by the end of it.
One of my bosses was a gossipy bast***. If I met anyone, or he met anyone, we all knew what he thought about them, in detail. And he was a big enough of a cad that he knew one, b/c he faced one every day in the mirror. I learned more about bad motivations and squirreliness from him, than any saintly person who only saw sunshine and light. His name for my long-term boyfriend, who looked fantastic on paper- right school, right job, right pay- D*****B**. My now- husband? Who didn’t look so promising on paper? Basically gift-wrapped him for me, as a present. And I’m intensely happy and fulfilled. He didn’t get that way by being subtle or kind or low-key. He got that way b/c him and all his friends were total gossip-hounds. They were gossipy to each other, and everyone else. They sharpened their saws, if you will.
So, gossip. Talk about bad choices, good choices, throw in details. We all like the Godfather b/c by the end, the old guy is a rat-bast***. He didn’t get that way by fine-ness.
Those two methods ought to proof her, as best as you are able to proof. Athena never won a quarrel with Aphrodite. Aphrodite left guys on her own free, capricious will.
Probably the best advice I’ve seen in these comments! I really especially liked what you had to say about telling the friend what you don’t like in their special other. I really wish I tried that when my friend was in a terrible relationship.
wow ~ ari
marry the guy/girl you can’t live without NOT live with
Of course there is the chance Tina has no self-delusion at all. Tina may meet your appeal with an unexpected response. Such as: “I love you Aunty, you’ve always looked out for me, but none of those things concern me, I’m marrying him for the money.” —Just an example!
If I were Tina though, I would want you to appeal to my vanity, leave him out of the equation. For example: “Tina I’ve known you a long time—Are you sure this is what you want to do?” —Don’t question Geoffy boy—question the institution of marriage. That way it doesn’t sound like a personal attack. If she’s smart enough to figure out what your doing and says, “You don’t like Geoffy boy.”, well your caught in the act, but you have plausible deniability.
Ugh. One of my best friends is marrying a total dirtbag. I’m in the wedding. I think she is making the biggest mistake of her life but I know better than to tell her that. They’ve been together for 8 years, and for the first three he seemed great (not as good as I thought she deserved, but hey, she loved him). Then he cheated on her and got caught in a big bad way and tried to make her think she was crazy, all while e-mailing his “other” girlfriend and claiming my friend was a crazy stalker ex. I was furious (not so much about the cheating, that happens, but about his lies about my friend) and confronted him until she asked me to back off so she could give him another chance. I could see the writing on the wall and knew he had gotten away with it, so I shut up and never brought it up again, because I love my friend and I know people will perform all kind of mental gymanstics to make something work (for whatever reasons).
Obviously, I haven’t forgiven him. But I will smile and hope it all works out for the best.
While smile at him? Surely you can still be friends with her while remaining enemies with him?
I was warned before I married. I didn’t listen. I wish I had. Nuff said.
If he doesn’t let you meet his friends, if he lies and says it’s for the best, if he asks you to be with him and leave EVERYONE else…..It is NOT love,it is NOT “meant” to be, it is for HIM and NOT you.Love is when you are together and ALL aspects of your life are ok with each other…..friends, family, work, school, church, kids, money……IT HAS TO BE. No exceptions, friend. No hidden resentments, no secret hatred, no lies for the “best”, no ….”he’ll change…” He doesn’t, you WILL regret it and ANY future would be based on a foundation that will crumble the first time it is tested. Lies leak, Love doesn’t…..It is based on respect, trust, faith and truth. A friend lost because you pointed this out was not your friend even if you were his/hers.
If she/he comes back….hurt,lost,alone, and broken, help them once, hug them the second time and have them meet a lawyer and/or a counselor third time around and keep your distance. Some people just choose wrong over and over and you can’t stop them and they can’t change. Love them for who they are but it is not up to you to save them every time. They HAVE to figure it out themselves.
NEVER keep it to yourself if you think someone will hurt your friend.
Remember…..don’t give up on them. Inform them and support them.
If noone likes your choice of partner there is a reason why and you are being STUPID to ignore them.
WHEN and IF you come to your senses…. at least have the decency to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong, there may be hope for you yet if you do.
And Buddy Burnett you are a certifiable jerk. I hope your “business” goes down the toilet where you belong.
but you have plausible deniability- Chiefparker
I hope you are a politics junky and not a politician. LOL
Very good advice, as always. I have always followed the rule that unless there is abuse in the relationship, say nothing (until after the divorce). We simply have to learn life’s lessons on our own. It is the mistakes we make in life that build and, hopefully, strengthen our character the most.
22 years ago I went out with my then girlfriend and a married couple. After dinner they told me we, my girlfriend and I had no chance of lasting.
We married that summer and have been together ever since Not perfect. Guess who is not married?
So go ahead feel free to dump on other peoples lives.
I have a niece who is very close to being like a daughter to me. Her father was and is a waste of protoplasm, and I had to intervene when he and my sister were getting divorced. The intervention consisted of making sure that he knew that I expected there to be a lot of loud arguing, screaming, and emotion. They would have to settle that. I left him with a great big “BUT”, as in; if you lay a hand on my sister, I will personally re-arrange your internal organs. He believed me.
Over the years, I tried to help my sister and her kids [there were 4, with my niece being the youngest]. Sadly, my niece brought home a young man very like her father. The reaction of the whole family was less than cordial. But she would not be dissuaded, and they became engaged.
There is a certain family history of stubbornness, and I knew that she would not be convinced not to marry him. So I sat down with her before the wedding and we had a talk. She knows that I have never lied to her, or done anything to harm her; and in fact have helped care for her all of her life. I explained my concerns, and that I knew that no matter what, she was going to marry him. And that I would not try to argue her out of it. What I told her I would do was to make 3 promises, and that I had never broken a promise to her.
First, if ever she felt unsafe for herself or any of her children; all she had to do was call. I would come and get her [and them], or if I could not, I would arrange for friends and associates to come get her.
Second, she and her children would have a roof over their heads, food, care, and most importantly protection for as long as needed; no questions asked.
Third, there would NEVER be an “I told you so.”; the only important thing being the safety and happiness of her and her children.
That was the best I could come up with, and we are still close, and I have some assurance that she will not stay in an intolerable situation if it should arise.
Subotai Bahadur
Then there is the story of the young girl who doubted. She felt that perhaps it was not an ideal relationship. She hinted to her family and friends that she was unsure and could do with some advice, and was encouraged by same family and friends to ‘make an effort’, not to expect Prince Charming, every relationship requires compromise. Nobody wanted to be too negative.
One decade on and the (no longer quite so young) girl has had enough – kicks the b** out and makes a new life for herself.
Motto: If you don’t want to stick your nose in, fine, but if you are asked for your opinion PLEASE tell the truth!
Marry early and often, and don’t intervene. It’s good for my business.
Buddy Burnett
Attorney at Law