Shooting Suspends Politics, But Portends Heated Gun-Control Fight
The largest mass shooting in U.S. history reached far beyond Aurora, Colo., today, bringing the presidential campaign trail to a standstill and paving the way for gun-control legislation to be back on the lips of many lawmakers headed into next week.
Even the most strident of gun-control advocates were measured in their statements early after the midnight movie theater shooting that left 12 dead and 59 wounded. But as the day went on and the weapons used in the rampage were revealed, including an AR-15, lawmakers grew bolder with their statements.
“#Aurora is another wake-up call. How many senseless tragic acts have 2 happen & lives have 2 be lost b4 enacting sensible gun control laws?” tweeted Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.).
On the Republican side, Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) mused back to the Luby’s cafeteria shooting in Killeen, Texas, in 1991 that killed 23 and wounded another 20. One patron had to leave her gun in her car due to the laws of the time, and her subsequent campaigning led to concealed carry laws in that state. Concealed carry permits are available in Colorado, but guns were not allowed in the movie theater.
“It does make me wonder, you know, with all those people in the theater, was there nobody that was carrying?” Gohmert said on former Rep. Ernest Istook’s radio show. “That could have stopped this guy more quickly.”
The Department of Defense said that one sailor was injured in the shooting and another “known to have been at the theatre that evening is currently unaccounted for.” Two airmen were also injured.
“We can also confirm that the alleged gunman in this incident, James Holmes, is not a past or current member of any branch or component of the U.S. Armed Forces,” said the Pentagon statement.
President Obama pulled out of campaign events in Florida for the day, telling a crowd in Fort Myers “the federal government stands ready to do whatever is necessary to bring whoever is responsible for this heinous crime to justice.”
“And we will take every step possible to ensure the safety of all of our people,” he said before leading supporters in a moment of silence for the victims.
White House press secretary Jay Carney said Obama was informed about the shootings by Homeland Security adviser John Brennan at nearly 5:30 a.m. The president then received a follow-up briefing from FBI Director Robert Mueller, Chief of Staff Jack Lew, and Brennan. Obama also called the mayor of Aurora and the police chief.
“I can tell you that this is a local law enforcement investigation at this point, and what we can say is that we do not believe at this point that there is an apparent nexus to terrorism,” Carney told reporters aboard Air Force One.
Campaign spokeswoman Jen Psaki said canceling campaign events was the “appropriate step” as “we’re focused on remembering the victims and finding out what happened.”
When asked by reporters, Carney said he had no scheduling updates or information on whether Obama would stop in the Denver area next week. This evening, the White House schedule for next week was released with campaign events Monday through Wednesday and again on Friday; on Monday, Obama flies to Reno for a VFW convention, then continues to Oakland, Calif., for campaign events.
Vice President Joe Biden is scheduled to speak at the National Association of Police Organizations convention in Florida on Monday.
“It is every parent’s worst nightmare to receive ‘that phone call’ and to sit by their child’s bedside, praying,” Biden said in a statement. “We know what it’s like to wait and wonder and the helplessness a parent feels at this moment. Our hearts go out to each and every person who is suffering right now as a result of this terrible event.”
There will be another Obama arena Tucson/Columbine Memorial II for the victims, Obama 2012 t-shirts hanging on the back of each chair, awaiting their occupant. Obama will relate, “I just came back from the hospital where I visited with Selma, a critically injured girl in a coma, when suddenly she opened her eyes for the first time. (roaring applause and Obama pausing to prolong the effect) Yes, she opened her eyes for the first time! And then she said, with great effort, ‘Don’t let them sell guns Mr. President.’ Well, I’m here to say to little Selma, SELMA, I WON”T FAIL YOU! SELMA, WE WON’T FAIL YOU! WE WON’T FAIL YOU!”
Crowd chants….”WE WON’T FAIL YOU! WE WON’T FAIL YOU! WE WON’T FAIL YOU! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS!”
Obama lifts chin to the heavens and beams.
The sad and sick part is that you are right. The progressive will use this incident to try and ram tough gun control (maybe even the un treaty). Disgusting is what that is. I do hope that the scum responseible is punished properly for this crime. That we don’t act like Norway and say he is insane and treathim with kid gloves. Give a fair trial and if convected give him the death sentence right quick.
No they won’t. Like FeralCat below, I’ve read in more than a few places that Homes was a leftist. Also apparently had studied sociology as well as neuroscience. I think it’s going to be very interesting to find out what made him tick, but we will probably have to dig to find it out.
No you are just going to have to wait for the trial. The law enforcement in CO seem to be ethical responsible individuals who are committed to the criminal justice system providing justice for the victims rather than having the media orchestrate that justice. Most questions were answered with a “I won’t discuss that” or “that information will come out in court”.
CNN is not going to be able to raise its ratings off the misery of the families of these victims.
They may not get a rise in the ratings, but oh! they will most certainly try to on the backs, sides and top of the victims of this tragedy. I am certain that they are most disappointed that he didn’t kill more people, especially children.
Here’s the (tragic) deal – psychos, criminal and terrorists will always find a way to arm themselves, gun control or not. So, if gun control is rammed through, then the ones left in peril will be law abiding citizens. Moreover, unfettered power will become centralized in the hands of whoever controls the levers of gov’t. That’s the gun control plan.
Israelis know all too well what happens when Arab terrorists (many of our internal fifth column) manage to find their guns, with the average Jew twisting in the wind. Israeli gun laws are tighter than a drum,and the results are clear to all. Many dead Jews.
In effect, terrorists kill our people here, there and everywhere, and all too often law abiding citizens have to depend on the security forces (police/army) to get there in time to stop the carnage. It rarely works out well. On the other hand, the average citizen who does manage to secure side arms often ends up saving the day. In general, they are quicker to respond than our security forces!
Living in a very brutal part of the world helps one to gain perspective, thus digging in ones heels. My blog op-eds reflect such (clear) thinking. Read this -
http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/07/20/non-quenchable-jew-hatred-jewish-justice-necessitates-revenge-the-more-punishing-the-better-nothing-less-will-suffice-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki-152/
and, then read this – http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/07/19/northeast-intelligence-network-digs-deeper-deeper-and-do-americans-know-who-their-neighbors-are-the-jihadists-next-door-compounds-galore-hezbollah-cells-too-commentary-by-adina-k-136/.
Why am I referring the readers to these two commentaries in particular? Simply put, Israelis/Jews continually hunt down Jewish justice, since Islamic/Arab terrorists are always gunning for us-whatever method they use. Sometimes it is with bombs, but many times it is with guns, resulting in massacres of untold victims, rarely reaching US news outlets. Many Jews in Israel have paid that ultimate price. There are too many mass murders to count involving Arabs with guns.
My second commentary cited above is a red alert warning to Americans. In other words, by internalizing the notion that Islamic jihadists are closer than Americans (Canadians too) realize, they will understand that giving up your right to bear arms will be an ultimate death sentence. Hardly for all citizens, but for far too many.
Do NOT let it happen!
Go to my blog to read my related commentaries on this issue -www.adinakutnicki.com
Stop it. You are being rude.
Gun control is a losing argument for the libs. The few with brains know it.
their arguments are “guns kill people”….just as a fat guy’s argument…
is “spoons make me fat”…
Yes, it’s a losing argument but also a very powerful distraction. We’ll soon see if Team Romney is nimble enough to counter-punch; it has to be quick and hard. Self-satisfied plodding is more their speed.
Wouldn’t it be nice if a few of the sitting ducks had guns to fire back?
Clinton was supposed to turn around his fortunes after the Oklahoma bombing in which he blamed Rush Limbaugh. Is Obama pulling a Clinton here?
Bunch of “tweets” saying the killer was OWS. I know “tweets” aren’t much more reliable than ABC, but didn’t Pelosi, and Obama too, praise OWS? Also the killer’s mom is reported to have said the killer was upset about not getting a job, even though he had a masters degree, in the [Obama] economy, so isn’t this a good deal Obama’s fault?
I accompanied my daughter out to CA last year to check out colleges. One thing that struck me was the HUGE number of kids who said they were majoring in neuroscience, which in my experience has always been confined to graduate study. It truly seemed to be the major d’jour, and I wondered if all those kids were going to med school, and if not, what the hell were they going to do with it? I imagine there are a lot of ticked off neuroscience grads out there, just not murderous ones.
“isn’t this a good deal Obama’s fault?”
The gunman didn’t do it, someone else made that happen.
I don’t know if the reporting was accurate, but I heard on NPR that the shooter wore armor and a helmet. Sometimes, neither laws nor armed citizens can make a difference. Sometimes, terrible things happen, and hindsight adds nothing.
True, but
“Never let a crisis go to waste” – Obama advisor Rahm Emmanuel
And if their is no crisis they will invent one. Call me cynical , but Obama and Dem operatives are planning on big mileage with this one.
Very Sad but true.
Yes, What Incredible perfect timing yet again for the Obama regime in never letting a good crisis go to waste. Obama and Hillary wants to sign the UN Small Arms Treaty on July 27th.
It will be interesting to find out how an unemployed broke ex-college student could afford thousands of dollars of weapons, ammo and military gear on unemployment checks?
This very tragic situation plays beautifully right into the hands of obama/holder and the globalist who control the UN.
Just like the oil spill was perfect timing and worked beautifully in shutting down all oil exploration in the gulf.
Karen, don’t let the misinformed or gullible fool you, this “armor” is not unstable, and weakens each time it is hit, also even if you get hit with a vest on you can be knocked down and even out, it hurts, sever bruising and even broken bones can occur even with a vest on, so yes even with this scumbag using armor, a law abiding gun owner could have made a big difference.
Exactly correct.
What effective body armor does is turn a sword thrust into a sledge hammer blow.
Two or three hits to center mass and the shooter would have had no interest in further mayhem.
I wouldn’t say that politics has been suspended in any way. The whole thing is political. Some people see a tragedy they can exploit to further their disarming of the populace, and everyone else falls all over themselves trying not to look less sympathetic than the next guy. When’s the last time all the flags at federal buildings were lowered to half staff, etc, etc for a multiple car pileup or a tornado? Why are moviegoers so much more valuable than everyone else?
“When’s the last time all the flags at federal buildings were lowered to half staff, etc, etc for a multiple car pileup or a tornado?”
I think … … never. You are absolutely right. Since the 12? or 14? people were killed over 100 people, in America, have been killed in traffic, and this happens every day. I guess that’s the answer – it’s not how many are killed, it’s the unusualness has to how.
… and I might add, as to whether someone thinks they can exploit it, either for political reasons or self-aggrandizement (as you said – more sympathetic than thou). Not too much mileage in trying to ban cars or reduce the speed limit to 10 MPG.
Saw this morning that a single truck accident in Texas resulted in the deaths of 11 people. Only reason it even made national news was that it was a pickup and had 23 total passengers. I am waiting patiently for the president to schedule a trip to Texas or for some organization to call for greater controls on pickups.
Oh, the article did speculate that some of the victims or other passengers may have been illegals.
The same people who say we should not execute this monster believe that the government should take away the Constitutional Rights of Law Abiding Citizens. This debate should be about the Death Penalty.
Personally I don’t care what is done for political gain on the gun control issue.
I want to know what lawyer is going to defend this monster, hidding in a human body, and how that lawyer is going to warp and try to pervert common sense and the law to try and get this monster free on any technicality that is possible.
What is needed is legal reform and stop to the bleeding heart PC useful idiots that don’t believe in death penalty and think that evil in humans doesn’t exist.
As to trying this worthless bit of human debris, the trial could start, one week from Monday and could be concluded in one day. There are only about three questions that need to be asked.
a. Did you arrest this man at the scene of the crime.
b. Did he have the weapons on him, and ballistics and finger prints match.
c. Is that man in the courtroom.
Prosecution rests, now can we go to penalty phase.
But as I said before, what slime lawyer is going to try and twist common sense, the law and human decency into knots to defend this person.
Should the accused not get an attorney? What are we Iran or China now, trial and one day then send him to have his organs harvested. This is america, where you get a just trial.
Oh, please BN. Get over youself. And if you can’t see that Iran and China’s ways are becoming more and more a part of America’s under this administration and progs then you are either deluded, galactically stupid or both.
And it’s America not “america” you pond scum.
It’s got nothing to do with guns! So long as the media makes a hero of killer like this, there will always be some other schmuck who wants his fame! He’ll go where ever he knows his has the greatest odds of maximizing damage and minimizing risk of harm to himself.
Compare Aurora’s numbers to any weekend in Chicago; there are about the same number of dead and wounded, but there is no media excitement. The media doesn’t care about blacks killing blacks; that’s not show-biz, there’s no personality, no dramatic story for deep thinking “journalists.”
So long as the left wing media worships mass murderers, we will have more of them!
Would this have happened if 1/3 of the crowd was carrying side arms into the movie. I think not!
You are a genius. Lets have 40 people shooting blindly in a dark theater that has had tear gas released into it. I am sure nothing could go wrong with that scenario. Sure in some cases having armed civilians can stop people like this, but sometimes not. The guy was in black, in body armor, and released tear gas. If a third of the theater started shooting their small arms in the theater there would have been more casualties. If the guy did not have an extended clip for his AR-15 however, there might have been less deaths. Although probably not, the guy stopped shooting when he was ready.
Why do you assume there would be “people shooting blindly in a dark theater?” CCW holders are trained to shoot responsibly and not shoot if they can’t identify their targets. You only have a straw man argument. Shut up and go back to World of Warcraft in your mom’s basement.
You are about as uninformed as a human can get and still be alive.
Great, nothing exposes the leftist elitism of the Democrat Party like gun control. And nothing exposes the cynicism and power hungry drive of the Democrats like a “crisis” involving guns. Look for huge Democrat losses including the Presidency.
Agreed.
If the democrat party grabs the gun control football and tries to run with it, they will find their losses in November even greater than they are concerned about now!
Since the expiration of that idiotic AWB (b. 1994 – d. 2004), AR type rifles that were popular to begin with have only become even more popular. Lots more folks have them now than had them in 1994 when the democrats took a drubbing in THAT election cycle! Expect these gun owners to act accordingly when some democrat starts screeching about banning their personal property.
Heck, if it improves the odds of getting rid of Obammer, I’d almost wish they’d try it!
When the Obama Team says they pulled all of their TV ads, that’s misleading. All of the Denver TV stations went wall-to-wall with their coverage today WITHOUT ANY COMMERCIALS. Even if Obama had wanted to run a spot, he couldn’t have.
The Syrian government should have their weapons taken away first. Also, this shooter is still alive, and that is going to cost the tax payer millions.
G-d Speed to the murdered, wounded, and their families.
Gun control is effective in removing guns from the possession of law abiding citizens but does nothing to prevent gun violence by the criminal element. Illinois is the only state that has no concealed carry law, and Chicago has the nation’s strictest anti-gun laws. In the first 6 months of 2012, there were over 250 murders in Chicago, almost 10 per week – many more than in larger New York City.
The Chicago murder rate also disproportionately impacts minorities. The percentage of black victims in Chicago is undoubtedly much higher than in the Aurora theater shooting. Allowing good citizens in high-crime areas to arm themselves would help deter crime, not increase it.
Even if we could conclusively prove that stricter gun laws would have prevented James Holmes from purchasing the weapons he used, trading our liberty for a small measure of increased safety is a poor bargain that we will regret in the long term.
Disarming those who respect the law will not lead to increased safety, only a loss of freedom.
Here we go again. Whenever a horrible tragedy like this occurs, the liberal politicians and media sock puppets start babbling about gun control. That makes the public nervous, and we have another round of firearms panic-buying. People who don’t own guns go and buy them out of fear of their government. Gun owners buy more, “just in case”. Gun shops and places like WalMart run out of ammo as the panic-buyers start stockpiling, and the price of ammo goes up. We’ve seen this happen time and time again. Do you really think the Federal Government can disarm the populace at this stage of the game? It’s not even logistically possible. Why do you think Obama is known as “America’s most successful gun salesman”?
#14 Bob
Your observations were concise and spot on. Thank you for being a voice of reason.
It is idiotic to think that harsh gun control laws would have stopped this crime. The shooter was obviously insane and would have found a way to kill a lot of people. For example, given that this man is very knowledgeable in explosives (he booby-trapped his entire apartment with explosives), what was to prevent him from simply exploding a bomb in the theater if he didn’t have access to any guns? And what about killers like Timothy McVeigh? He killed a lot of people without using a gun. And none of the terrorists on 9/11 used any guns, either. Remember that.
The bottom line is that if an insane person wants to kill a lot of people, they’ll find a way to do it. What we should be doing is keeping a better eye out for mentally ill people and doing more thorough background checks on people before they’re allowed to buy guns. Perhaps setting up a Federal Data base of everyone in the nation with a known history of psychiatric or drug problems or convictions would be a good start. I know, I know, this idea is not foolproof and is certainly not perfect, but it couldn’t hurt and it could even stop a few of the craziest people out there from obtaining weapons. If we have national data bases that can check your credit rating in a matter of seconds, why can’t we create a data base that has all known people with severe mental or drug problems and convictions on it?
Nobody is calling for disarming the American public, because then only criminals would HAVE guns. But we could be a lot more careful in who we sell guns to, especially in places like pawn shops and gun shows.
I agree. If gun control worked than Anders Behring Breivik would have not been able to kill 69 people in NOrway last year.
“doing more thorough background checks on people before they’re allowed to buy guns”…
Just how extensive would a background check have to be to determine that a non criminal college graduate would do something like this? Would you prefer a complete FBI background check, complete mental health evaluation, interview with his first grade teacher? Maybe a psychic or an FBI profiler.
There is no reasonable method of predicting when someone will break. Common sense and anecdotal experience shows that. People go down the same mundane path through life for decades, then suddenly do something no sane person would contemplate.
So are we to err on the side of caution and disallow anyone who ‘just doesn’t look right’ to own a firearm?
Call me cynical but this massacre happening just as the “You didn’t build that” comment was starting to do real damage to Obama seems to be too much of a coincidence.
Gun control is what killed all these people. That, and coupled with the theater owners policy of disarming the public they opened their doors for, set up a killing field for a demented killer.
Personally I feel that the theater owners are civilly, and perhaps even criminally, liable.
While I am a very strong proponent of private property rights, we already have Public Accommodation laws which eliminate certain private property rights of business which are open to the general public. It certainly would be Constitutional to extend this concept to the Second Amendment and forbid business open to the general public from prohibiting armed citizens on their premises. Or, at the very least, make those who do prohibit carry to be held civilly responsible to protect every person they have on their premises from harm. And in the case where no protection, like this theater, was provided… criminal sanction as well.
Jimmy’s Got A Gun*
http://predicthistunpredictpast.blogspot.com/2012/07/jimmys-got-gun.html
M2RB: Aerosmith
*I’m an ardent defender of the Second Amendment.
I think it is the leftist progressive agenda that indirectly creates this sort of violence. It is the sort of anything goes except personal responsibility, hedonistic, God-rejecting, amoral society they create.
Unless ObamaRx and Axelrod have lost their minds they won’t touch gun control as a campaign issue. There are a lot of conservatives out there who aren’t all that fired up about Mitt. Start talking about taking their guns and get out of the way ’cause the money flood to Romney’s campaign will be incredible.
No one wants to take your guns away and certainly not Obama. Heck he has done nothing which pisses his base off like me. I do want to have background checks on individuals is that such a bad idea? How about not being able to get assault weapons or getting clips that hold over 10 rounds. Are these unreasonable demands? Or how about being able to collect data about gun violence in a central database? Or how about not being able to purchase more than one gun at a time? Or how about serial numbers on bullets.
It appears that even if reasonable things are suggested the gun nuts go crazy. A society has ever right to control dangerous weapons and our constitution demands we protect our citizens.
This guy seems to be a nut who thought he was the Joker. Are you going to take everyone rights away to try and stop one random mental case? We already do have some of the preventative procedures you list. How would serial numbers on bullets help? We already know who perpetrator is. The bullets have already killed. Lastly, I suppose you mean magazines not clips. Loading a new magazine probably takes less than a second. How does one holding only ten rounds stop reloading?
This nut job has nothing to do with a reasonable list of things we should do to control guns. I don’t think we should have anyone purchase a gun without a background check. I’d like to reduce the amount of bullets being fired by a gun by limiting the amount a clip or magazine can hold.
We are using guns to kill and maim thousands of innocent people in which the killer is the judge and jury. We need to come up with some sane controls to help reduce as we will never eliminate this from happening.
Oh and not one thing I’m asking for is taking away any of your precious gun rights
Background cheques were conducted on each of the 4 gun purchases Holmes’ made. The only contact he had previously with LE was a speeding ticket and there was no record of mental instability. The ONLY way that you possibly could have kept the guns out of the hands of James Holmes would have been to search every millimeter of space in the United States and seize the more than 200 million firearms that are here. After that, you would also have to defend the borders, which most Progs don’t wish to do. If you are incapable of keeping illegal aliens and tonnes of drugs out of the United States, how are you going to keep guns from coming into the country?
You might also wish to consider that James Holmes didn’t need guns to kill on a mass scale. He knows enough about chemistry and biology to make explosives and biological weapons.
There is a price to be paid if you wish to live in a free society. Unfortunately, the Jared Loughners and James Holmes comprise part of it, but they are rarities and guns save more lives every year than kill in this country.
If gun control laws were the answer, Switzerland wouldn’t have 40% less crime than Germany. New Zealand would have less crime than Australia. Mexico would have no gun crime. Germany and Scotland wouldn’t be the homes of 4 of the 5 largest school massacres in history. (Breslan is classified as a terrorist attack). Norway would have 69 more citizens. I could go on, but I have the feeling that the endeavour would be useless. Your mind is made up.
Is what I am asking that terrible – background checks on all gun sales which you know are not done. Also no gun sales over the internet – who the heck knows who that goes to. There are plenty of places to get guns and I don’t want to stop that nor take your guns away. I’m not talking about this incident but society as a whole. We need to make it much harder from manufacturing on down to the consumer. As a society we have every right to have gun controls.
All gun sales except private sales… me to you for example are put through a national check. That includes pawn shops and gun shows. The PHD candidate in this particular case would never have been denied the sale.
Show where a private sale ended this way if you want any cred.
All sales over the internet have to be FFL transferred. That includes a NICS check http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/nics
Why do you lie? Is it intentional, or are you that ignorant?
And NO …”As a society we have every right to have gun controls”.
As a People we have every right to the Second Amendment. Including all “Emanations” and “Penumbra” thereof.
LOL.
You do not like that… then get 3/4th the States to repeal the Second Amendment.
“New Zealand would have less crime than Australia”
That should have been “New Zealand would have MORE crime than Australia.” Sorry.
BostonLib
“Is what I am asking that terrible – background checks on all gun sales which you know are not done.”
There are background cheques conducted. Section 922(g) of the Gun Control Act prohibits certain persons from shipping or transporting any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce, or receiving any firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or possessing any firearm in or affecting commerce. Please reference the Federal Register, Volume 62, Number 124, Rules and Regulations, for more complete definitions of the prohibiting categories.
Who Is Ineligible to Buy Handguns?
When a licensed federal handgun dealer runs a background check on a potential handgun buyer, the NICS system returns information on individuals who:
* Dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
* Are unlawful users of or addicted to a controlled substance.
* Have been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution.
* Are illegal or unlawful aliens.
* Have renounced their U.S. citizenship.
None of the above apply to Holmes.
Additionally, the NICS cheques criminal history records to identify convicted felons and those convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence crimes. The system also checks NCIC files for wanted persons, protection orders, and deported felons.
‘Denied Persons File’
According to the FBI, states must provide to the NICS Index information on people declared mentally ill “including supporting documentation to prove an individual was adjudicated as a mental defective or involuntarily committed for treatment” to be included in the system’s “Mental Defective File.”
Again, Holmes has never been declared mentally ill or even had contact with the mental health side of the judicial system. He has never been put on a 72-hour hold, as far as I know, so that would not even appeared.
“Also no gun sales over the internet – who the heck knows who that goes to.”
You could ban gun sales over the internet, but that would not stop gun sales via the internet. If you know where to look, you can find just about anything you want on to buy on the internet from Oxycodone without a prescription to a kidney. James Holmes would easily have been able to find what he was seeking. Guns from China, Russia, etc., are easily available online. In fact, it is easier to get a Russian gun than a Russian mail order bribe and the UN Small Arms Treaty is not going to change that.
Seriously, did Prohibition cause alcohol to disappear?
“There are plenty of places to get guns and I don’t want to stop that nor take your guns away. I’m not talking about this incident but society as a whole. We need to make it much harder from manufacturing on down to the consumer. As a society we have every right to have gun controls.”
You should read Heller and McDonald. As a society, you do not have every right to have whatever gun controls you want. Furthermore, having kneejerk reactions as a result of cases like this one only makes for bad law and punishes honest citizens.
As a society, we need to start looking at the cultural rot, the way that we deal with mental illness (Holmes’ mum KNEW it was her son before the police contacted her), the glorification of violence, the acceptance of violence (Rahm Emmanuel, basically, telling the gangs “Look, just take your killings into the alleys and leave the kids alone), etc., because what this case makes PERFECTLY CLEAR is that the strictest gun laws would not have prevented James Holmes from obtaining firearms. Further, it also proves to us that, when people want to kill, they will find a way. He easily could have blown up the theater. Evidently, he was reenacting a scene from a Batman comic book that was published in the 1990s where the Joker shot up a theater.
The Unabomber didn’t need a gun.
Timothy McVeigh didn’t need a gun.
The 9/11 hijackers didn’t need guns.
Umar Farouk Abulmuttalab didn’t have a gun.
Faisal Shahzad didn’t have a gun.
Joe Stack didn’t have a gun.
The Hillside STRANGLER didn’t have a gun.
Jack the Ripper didn’t have a gun.
OJ Simpson didn’t have a gun.
So on and so forth…
Typical response of the anti gun crowd. Dancing in the blood of innocent victims while taking advantage of the crisis to push forward yet again their agenda of failed gun control measures. They are taking advantage of both the general public’s ignorance of the mechanics of firearms and the natural reaction in such cases that “something must be done!” The simple truth is, gun control does not work. Just look at Chicago or Washington DC and prove me wrong.
Hey prog: go complain to the NBP, Bloods, Crips, Latin Kings, MS13 and all the other black and hispanic gangs and then get back to us.
Tool.
You are making the mistake of focusing on the tools the murderer used, instead of the murderer himself.
You seem to think if only we as a society had stopped him from purchasing a weapon then this would not have happened.
Have you not followed the news on how his apartment was rigged to kill everyone in the building – and how he did this with what I suspect are commonly available items?
You would do better to focus on what created this monster instead of what tools he ended up using.
Yes those are unreasonable infringements of our Second Amendment rights. The People have every right to the very same individual arms that are used by our military.
Not crew served weapons or those designed specifically to defeat crew served weapons. But certainly anything which a SWAT member may use.
As for assault weapons, certainly the People should be able to buy as many as they want as long as that person is not a violent felon. BTW, you do know that the Aurora killer did not use an assault weapon do you not. He used a AR 15. That is a semi-auto not an assault weapon.
Fantom you read like a disturbed individual wanting civilians to be able to have the same weapons as SWAT team members. I don’t even want people to have semi-automatic rifles or guns. Those rifles certainly aren’t used for hunting.
Maybe Mitt can use those semi-automatic rifles to hunt those varmints he used to hunt once or twice.
Well, you certainly reinforce the leftwing/liberal stereotype. Lacking reason you start with ad hominem when confronted by an opposing view. Disturbed indeed.
Yes I am as “disturbed” as our Founding Fathers who penned the Second.
First, you display an amazing degree of ignorance when stating that a semi-auto rifle is not used for hunting. I can assure you… they are. There are also sporting events centered upon semi-auto. Like the National Garand Matches.
Putting that aside, there is more to our Right to Keep and Bear Arms than hunting and sports. Self defense is one of those. Criminals will always have real assault weapons, as the police in LA found out …
http://articles.latimes.com/1998/nov/05/local/me-39444 “The department is one of several across Southern California to invest in more firepower after a 1997 North Hollywood bank robbery in which Los Angeles police officers complained that they were outgunned. During the battle, police ran into a nearby gun store and borrowed rifles to defend themselves against two heavily armed bank robbers.”
…. opps looks like the police had to go to a civilian shop to even up the odds… I AM embarrassed for you Bostonlib.
Yes, you do not want the honest citizen to have semi-auto , or magazines with more than 10 rounds. We get that. Now tell a black man facing a KKK lynch mob, or a white man facing a “beat whitie night” mob of feral blacks that he should just die.. He and his family.
They should not die because of your fear of an armed citizenry.
Your examples are seriously flawed or are you so frightened about everything that you need to have your semi with you waiting for that attack that will never come.
I have no problem with the police having those weapons – I would have a problem with you however as I think you have issues
Here you go Bostonlib.
http://www.barackobama.com/truth-team/attack-watch/
If you think I have issues, report me to your fascist master.
More food for thought Bostonlib. Or for the disturbed as you may see it.
SCOTUS, in US Vrs Miller 1939 overturned a District courts finding that having a sawed off shotgun of less than 18 inches was a Second Right.SCOTUS did so on the grounds that such a weapon was not shown to be used in the military at the time. So the court overturned and remanded back to the lower court.
Point being that SCOTUS , at least then, is as disturbed as I
. Military weapons fine by their decision.
Some more interesting facts about Miller, no one showed up to make argument. The persons it was brought for were actually bankrobers…. yet the case was decided upon the fact no one proved such a weapon used by the military.
Now couple that with SCOTUS D.C. vrs HELLER which has made fact that the Second is an individual right settled law in the USA.
And the “disturbed” individual is well… maybe you. My position is both well reasoned and s’ported by law.
Yet with all your huffing and puffing we can still make laws and regulations controlling guns and purchases. How about we register all guns to track from manufacturer to consumer. Then when any license is transferred from one private party to another it must be done after a background check.
Good luck with that agenda obama surrogate.
I know you guys do not care about the Constitution. But if your kind actually tries what you are proposing.
Well, consider which side can actually shoot straight. Or has the cojones to. Plus we grow the food. Beware what you wish for… you just may get it.
Any rate, you are frothing at the lib/obama/progresive mouth.
Not used for hunting? Hmmm… I could have taken my single shot, bolt action .22cal out hunting for packs of feral hogs tearing up my pastures. I suppose I could have. Would have been stupid, but I could have done that.
Instead, I took my AK47 with a couple of hi-cap 40rd mags with me. I wasn’t wearing any ballistic armor with black-ninja jammies. No flash bangs, not even the tactical gloves. Just me and my rifle. Because, I know if I had gotten between momma hog and baby hog my life would have taken a turn for the worse.
Now days, when I go clear brush, mend fences and cut firewood I take my AR. Why? Well, one day I found the remains of a cow… torn to pieces and bits of cow hide up in the trees. Oh, and a few really big cat prints on the ground. Big as the palm of your hand. I suppose I should mention I take 4 30rd clips with me. Why 4? Well the mag pouch holds three and the rifle one. I suppose I could take the AK, but the AR will reach out a little farther, and I have it scoped.
As with most libs, you don’t know what you are talking about. The experiences of your life, day-by-day, have no bearing on my life. Stop trying to project your sense of lifestyle on me. That is the problem with you libs. You just can’t leave other people alone to live their lives in peace.
Ah, do you realize semi-automatic firearms have been available to the public since 1885?
You seriously want to try to ban an item that has been out there since the 19th century?
Stop listening to the mainstream media and get out into the rural areas a bit more, it can be most enlightening.
There is nothing real nor reasonable in your post. If we did all of what you suggest the will to kill would not be restrained. Instead it would be released. But that is really what you are after anyway, right? Pathetic…
He doesn’t appear to have bought more than one gun at a time.
How would serial numbers on bullets have helped in this case? We aren’t trying to figure out who did this.
The core problem is that we pretty well destroyed our mental health system in the 1960s and 1970s. In 1960, a person who was giving signs of being mentally ill stood a strong chance of being involuntarily committed, especially if there was reason to be concerned that they might be a danger to self or others. Now, you pretty much have to kill someone before anything happens.
My new book on the subject may be instructive; My Brother Ron: A Personal and Social History of the Deinstitutionalization of the Mentally Ill.
I am an avid supporter of the 2nd amendment. I can imagine a reasonable set of gun sale restrictions that would not endanger the right to bear arms for the large majority of the citizenry. However, in no way should any such concession be made to the gun-grabbers, unless they simultaneously agree to eliminate that vile mix of law and policy that impedes the police and prosecutors from arresting and prosecuting individuals who are illegally armed. I’m referring here specifically, but not exclusively, to those obstructions based on allegations of racial profiling. It should not be the proportion of any particular group in the general population that determines the proportion of that group that can be arrested and prosecuted without triggering charges of profiling; it should be the proportion of that group that engages in crimes involving the use of guns.
See The Diplomad 2.0 on the gun control issue. Excellent statement in just a few words. http://thediplomad.blogspot.com/2012/07/gun-control-morlocks-and-elois.html
Money quote, “The advocates of gun control seem to ignore that the movie theater in Aurora was the epitome of a gun controlled world. It was a microcosm of what the gun controllers want for all of us. I would hazard to guess that 99.9% of the people in that theater that night did not have guns with them.”
Lets get real about what Gun Control is and is not. Gun control is NOT: about stop and frisking of nearly all Black and Hispanic men in NYC, resulting in the confiscation of over 20,000 weapons (includes knives and saps) in the past decade. No one is arguing about sweeping into Detroit and taking guns away from Black thugs so no more 9 month old Black baby boys are killed by Black people “keeping it real” after a drive by following a fight over seating at a Baby Shower. No one is talking about that at all. No one wants it. Least of all liberals.
What Liberals (and Black leaders like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton, and Black people themselves) want is most White people disarmed so they are at the mercy of any Black thug armed. So that guys like say, Shaun Tyson (killer of two White British tourists), or Tyrone Woodford (if Obama had a son, he’d look like Tyrone Woodford) can kill an elderly White couple and more, with impunity. That’s the whole point. For Blacks, its the eternal payback time that never ends for Slavery and Segregation. Black people will never forgive nor forget, and as a group (individuals may vary but this is sadly true) spend most of their time fantasizing and acting on the fantasy of “getting even” on White people. Including tourists, the elderly, and college couples in Knoxville TN and Tulsa OK.
White liberals enjoy this, because they figure that if White people were worthy, they would have been born rich and connected and made tens of millions to move to Malibu or say, Joss Whedon’s house, valued at nearly $6 million overlooking the Riveria Country Club. For White liberals this is a battle for class annihilation of the “wrong sort of White people” who they accurately see as a mortal threat to their hereditary rule and rent-seeking via government and semi-government (media, law, NGO, etc.) sinecures passed down from generation to generation.
No one said a word when Omar Thorton masscred eight White guys, over being fired for stealing on video from his job. No one said a word when Major Hassan killed 13, yelling Allah Akbar, other than Gen. Casey saying the worst thing would be if diversity was hurt.
Like most things in America, this is the war of race and class. Just not the BS that the media pushes, the real thing instead.
Chicago has weekends where 25 or more people are killed. The violence is so bad that it is threatening tourism and downtown and Gold Coast property values. No one talks about Chicago’s gun problems that are so bad the city is on track for 500 homicides (so far 250 at June) for the year. Because that would mean arresting lots of young Black men and throwing them in prison until they are older than fifty, and incapable of sustained gang shooting violence.
That’s the real deal, cutting through all the BS.
The timing of this event, with our globalist government seeking to sign a UN treaty on weapons control, and then force it on the American people, seems all too coincidental. Was this another staged event? Perhaps an investigation of the graduate program he was involved in is in order, to determine if he was the subject of the neuroscience he was researching. Psychotropic drugs have long been experimented with to create “Manchurian Candidates”. Given that a Hollywood hypnotist can have patrons barking at their tables (which I have seen, many years ago), what is the current state of the art? This shooter, a reportedly shy student, was too well-armed and performed too methodically, to accept another “lone gunman” scenario. Who trained, armed, and aimed him might be an appropriate question.
Best Yard Sign Ever Posted on July 18, 2012
http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/best-yard-sign-ever/
Would just like to point out that even though announcements were made that no negative ads would be run due to the horrible event, last night as CBS News, was on, they ran 2 commercials started with “This is Barack Obama and I approved this message”, the ad went on to rip Romney for supporting the defunding of Planned Parenthood. I did see ads from PACS in support of Romney but none from his campaign. I realize this is off target as to gun control issues but wanted someone to know there are more lies being told then just the spin on what guns do rather than what people do with them.
“I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate, and you disagree with this administration, somehow you’re not patriotic, and we should stand up and say we are Americans, and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration!” Hillary Rodham Clinton, 4-28-03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJxmpTMGhU0
From a practical standpoint, “gun control” simply won’t work, they’re too many of them out there…uncounted millions of guns…many, many varieties…..you can’t confiscate them….and, those deranged enough enough to use them publicly here and there will not be concerned with mere “regulations”.
Sad, but face it, true.
Gun control is putting All your shots in the 10 ring.
The leftoids that want to ban guns won’t get any farther then they did last time. The USSC has upheld the 2nd amendment many times. I expect they will continue to up hold it. Mass murders are a fact of life in America. It is part of the price paid for freedom. Notice those advocating banning handguns expect everything to be free. Free meaning somebody else pays for it.
There is no point in getting all worked up. Liberals are liberals, they will do what liberals do. One supports the 2nd amendment by getting a carry permit, putting 100 rounds down range EVERY week and sending 10$ to the NRA. OH yeah, VOTE………
33. Adina Kutnicki, Israel
PJM is a blog Co-Op. Several long time bloggers got together and pooled their resources.
Resources include readers and commenters. It seems like you are trying to rustle (steal) those assets. That isn’t the way to do it. Contact the powers that be and see if you can get your blog rolled into PJM. You need to have something to offer.
Huffy PO (Huffington Post) sold for 135 million a while back. No way of knowing how much PJM is worth or how it gets split. Regardless, like any business merger, both sides have to bring something to the table.
Would those against Gun rights be happier if this sicko used his vast knowledge of chemicals and used chemical bomb devices or an explosive vest into the theater.
Bottom line is in a free society we all will have to pay for these idiots…we’ll all be going through metal detectors and airport security when we go into public places, buildings and events.
We should know Monday how the marxists intend to exploit the tragedy.
If the Marxist in Chief decides to tell his lies in favor of gun control, we will know that they believe that stance will move a fraction of undecided voters. They will probably do that, since if nothing else, it will move the needle in Colorado.
The evil man has already gone to Colorado to claim his TV time and relish a few more days posing as a leader and talking endlessly about something besides his efforts to destoy the country.
In addition, there will surely be some massive allocation of taxpayer printing press money to Colorado for some nonsense reason, which, of course, will another payoff to his criminal associates. Colorado is a swing state this year, and there will be many conned by the scam into thinking the consumate grifter cares about something other then his lust for power.
This is precious … just a few days ago Obama met with the Mexican president; a giant hand shake and smiles photo-op ensued; now, in the wake of the Aurora shooting, suddenly as if from nowhere, the Mexican president is advising the U.S.A. to revise our gun laws.
Obama hasn’t given up on the Fast and Furious project obviously.
If “…guns were not allowed in the movie theater”, then what the hell was that guy doing in there with those guns? How more common-sensical of a gun law is there than “guns…not allowed in the movie theater.” Maybe Holmes couldn’t read? Maybe he didn’t see the sign. Maybe instead of common sense we need really, really stupid gun control (read “confiscation”) laws. Yeah, that will do it. Let’s get ‘guns off the street’, even if we have to go into people’s houses to do it. How ’bout this, “Criminals are not allowed in movie theaters”?
It is a simple verifiable fact that every mass shooting in this country was ended when the shooters were confronted with force at which point they were killed, captured, or took their own lives. That force can come from law enforcement or private individuals with the means to exert it. The media beats mercilessly over each and every high body count shooting, yet barely notices those that came to a swift halt from the presence of an armed individual.
Pearl river school, Appalachian School of Law, Colorado Springs church, Salt Lake City mall, all were limited to a few dead because the shooter was met with deadly force by someone armed or who was able to retrieve a gun from nearby.
Someone bent on violence will always find a way to obtain the means to harm people. If not guns then chemicals, explosives, or for that matter box cutters and airplanes. All gun free zones do is give a false sense of security to the ignorant and uninformed. Remember, both Virginia Tech and Fort Hood were gun free zones as was that movie theater.