Seventy-One Rounds in Tucson: The SWAT Shooting of Jose Guerena
She was obviously not sure that he was dead and constantly asked about him. She repeatedly asked why the police shot him. They lied to her: they told her she is not under arrest and will not have to go to court, but that the law requires her to answer their questions. They told her she cannot leave until she answers their questions. They told her they don’t put people in a room and force them to answer, while they were doing exactly that.
Over and over, the police asked Vanessa about the presence of drugs or cash in the home, secret hiding places, if Jose — or she — was breaking the law. They were clearly trying to trick her into incriminating Jose or herself. Their desperation was as obvious as Vanessa’s fear, confusion, and honesty. This transcript is not a fine hour for American law enforcement.
The police were doubtless asking these questions because the search of the Guerena home came up utterly empty. There were no drugs, no cash, no evidence of the kind of extravagant living one might expect from the enforcer of a “mid-level drug ring.” Photographs of the interior of the Guerena home, shredded by police gunfire, gave two immediate impressions: (1) There was no evidence of conspicuous consumption. The Guerena home looks like what it is: the home of a young couple just starting in married life. (2) It’s a miracle the police didn’t kill Vanessa Guerena, her son, themselves, or neighbors.
The police initially claimed to have found police uniforms in the home, but later revised that to portions of a police uniform, later revising that to a baseball cap with a “Border Patrol” logo. Vanessa told the police that Jose was applying to become a Border Patrol agent. Such hats are freely available to the public.
The police also claimed to have found bullet-resistant vests, first in a closet and in a closed plastic storage box in the garage, but eventually released photos only of what appears to be a military issue, desert tan vest which may have been Jose’s issued vest in the Marine Corps.
They also announced that they found a checkbook, bank statements, a debit card, a .38 caliber handgun, other common items, and several other firearms. None of these are illegal and there is no evidence any were used in the commission of any crime.
From that day, police spokesmen and Sheriff Dupnik have painted Jose Guerena as the enforcer of a gang described as anything from a “mid-level” to a “large” drug organization. He is said to have been involved in the armed home-invasion robberies of other drug criminals, to be a killer for hire, to be a member of “the cartel,” to have been involved in human smuggling, and to have been involved in a double homicide. There is no known evidence to support any of these contentions. The double homicide was that of Manuel and Cynthia Orozco, who were apparently in some way related to the wife of Jose’s brother Alejandro. It remains unsolved, but Jose must present a tempting means of solving a difficult case. He fits the manufactured narrative, and he certainly can’t prove that he did not commit the crime.
“No warrant shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.”
Well, that one is pretty much a dead issue thanks to the traffic laws, drug laws and now this searching people at airports nonsense.
The 4A basically means zip.
So the Surly One hates drug laws, traffic laws and denies that the Fourth Amendment is very carefully observed by almost all cops at almost all times.
Surly wants to smoke, sniff or slam dope and then drive wildly because there is nobody else in this universe but him- King Baby!
Too bad Dupniks’ punk deputies didn’t kick in Surly’s door.
So, Tiger, you are in favor of random wiretaps, random stops/searches, no probable cause? A little paper-hanger named Shickerlgruber did this for years. My daddy and his friends Fought Against his militaristic policies in WWII.
Ben Franklin said:”He who gives up a right for a modicum of security deserves Neither”. Our constitution was written for a Purpose. That Purpose doesn’t change because of the times.
If you don’t like this, write your congressman. tha
Cops walk All over the constitution Evwery Day-show me that they Don’t. Plus, they can Get Away with almost Anything–they Know judges/juries favor them, as they Are Cops, Why should They Lie? (snickker!)
I have court testimony and police records just Full of Lies and Holes.
Plus, Surly Never said he was Against drug laws, etc. You said that. Reading between the lines. Our bill of rights is absolute, doesn’t matter if it’s drugs or a parking ticket.
It is obvious that our government at all levels feels it is above the law. To much corruption, and not enough prosecution.
It will reach a boiling point. I hope the 2012 elections will turn the flame down a bit.
Pray for all the victims and their families.
Well, as you can expect, the police state storm troopers can, and likely will, get away with this kind of stupendously incompetent and murderous act. Unaccountability is one of the real “benefits” that municipal “law enforcement” organizations operate under.
Besides, what kind of “justice” could possibly be applied to such an obvious display of malfeasance?
The police pension fund should be required to provide her and her family with a normal police pension and any other benefits a retiring police officer would be entitled to… before the law suit is settled… for the rest of her life and pay for the education of any children.
You’d think this was old school Soviet era Russia.
That ain’t near enough. The 20 Mil seems about right. Most police pensions are on the small side, and not lots of guys are looking for readymade families.
You Contadicted yourelf. Are you on the Sheriffs Dept side or Not? See your first comment…
All cops/deputies in Pima county have a $5 million dollar insurance policy per officer/per episode.This is often easily settled out of court. But, Still, $20 million is Cheap for a life…I agree..
That video should be used in training on how NOT to conduct a dynamic entry. Everyone cop there who isn’t fired and prosecuted for murder should be fired for incompetence.
Thank you for keeping this story in the public’s attention. This is the most egregious misuse of police power I have ever seen. With a son in the US Army Infantry who is trained in MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) I have some familiarity with the tactical entry and securing of a building. The actions of the SWAT team do not bear even the faintest resemblance to those procedures. They are clearly just a bunch of untrained boys getting to dress up and play soldier.
Though I am not having much success in my efforts, I would like to see an Arizona state law created what would codify the specific circumstances under which a SWAT team can be used as well as specifying the minimum training standards for SWAT team members
In closing it might be helpful to point out the following irony: Mr Guerena survived two tours in Iraq and did so by living on a hair trigger and responding aggressively and ferociously to any attack. Yet he exhibited the the restraint of a professional trained warrior – his weapon remained on safety. Who exhibited trained professionalism that day? It was Jose and not SWAT.
“They are clearly just a bunch of untrained boys getting to dress up and play soldier”
And they are part of “the team” that honestly believes THEY should be the only little boys allowed to play with guns.
They shot Jose’ because he was armed….
And his presence scared the shit out of those untrained, incompetent little boys
The “war on drugs” is without a doubt the worst thing to ever happen to law enforcement in this country. Our police departments seem to increasingly see themselves not as servants and protectors but as an occupying force.
How much longer are we going to allow this bull**it to go on?
Long enough to make it difficult and risky for you dopers to get loaded.
Mr. McDaniel,
Thank you for your continuing coverage on this awful story. As a current member of the military, and hopeful future member of the law enforcement community, this issue strikes close. Now, I am no expert, but I could take 3 chimps and train them for a day to be able to enter and clear a house better than those “officers.” They are a disgracing. Dear Pima County, Please throw Dupnik out of office. Love, A concerned citizen in PA
*they are a disgrace* sorry.
actually, i believe the reason the safety was off, is because it wasn’t his rifle. in the transcript of her police interrogation, his wife said the Marine had a PISTOL (small gun), but said she had never seen the “big gun” before a policeman laid it beside her dying husband.
(and i doubt she even knew the phrase “AR-15″. again, the interrogation of her, is interesting, especially if you remember she spoke little english.)
I believe you have misread the sentence:
“When they entered, they assigned two officers to cover the unmoving, obviously dead Guerena. Only then did they discover that the safety of his rifle had not been disengaged; he had not fired a shot.”
Note that it says the safety had NOT been disengaged. That means that he would have had to disengage the safety in order to fire the weapon.
@ Chris is quoting from this post; @ curious was quoting from another document. No misreading at curious’s end.
The left/liberal ideal for execution of “social justice” and heathcare for “your own good”… why we have a Constitution and due process of law.
As a former policeman and Infantryman I can offer a few insights. First off, SWAT teams are status symbols for law enforecment agencies. Fancy toys and high profile raids are the mother’s milk of good media and federal grant money. But when they go bad…..?!
The SWAT team for my old agency got one of their own killed and another seriously wounded in a bungled hostage situation. A SWAT sniper from the department next to us actually killed one of thier own officers by shooting without a clear target.
Cops often try to intimmidate witnesses and victims alike when the magnitude of their errors starts to be made clear. They also invent new laws. At my first officer involved shooting I heard a Sargent tell a witness who wanted to leave that they were under ‘investigative custody’. Hint, no such thing exists in that state.
When the dust settles they circle the wagons, investigate their own people and usually clear themselves of any wrong doing. This is when the victims and the public at large ususally quit making lawyer jokes and go hire some.
Dupnik already has a reputation as a disingenious political hack and a something of a boob as well. If the facts are as presented here then I hope the family wins the full 20 million.
BTW, as a former army grunt (infantryman) who has worked closely with the USMC I can tell you there isn’t a Marine around who’d be ‘unable’ to ‘drop the safety’ on a AR-15….EVER!
Spot on. All the way around! Good luck on your career. You are badly needed.
I’d like to see her win a fortune too, but that wont hurt/affect anybody responsible…the state could care less about giving her the taxpayers money.
It goes like this:
“hey I blew your money on robo-cop costumes for me, isnt it cool!?”
(*step on dick*)
“hey I blew your money on covering up my mistakes and paying off the widow,
Isnt it cool!?!”
Only one thing could ever make this “Right and fair”, and that people, is extra judicial vigilante-type reprisals against the triggermen.
A horrible thing to descend to, but there are no other options.
Justice died a long time ago.
Revenge is all we have left, before slavery
What is it with the cops killing our veterans. Didn’t the Las Vegas police recently gun down a former army captain and war vet outside of a Costco? As I recall he was shot a couple of times in the back as well a many in the front. Even the police cannpt seem to agree on what happened. His crime was buying an ice chest while carrying a lawfully permitted gun and some security guard over reacted. Wasn’t one of the cops already under investigation for a previous homicide that is still unresolved?
What ever happended to the Reed and Malloy types of Adam-12 fame. I want my Jack Webb type cops back.
Yes they did and you are right. Swat team members may or may not be any better than any other cops but the few cops I’ve known are arrogant and have the same sort of attitude as these cops displayed. There needs to be a way to sort out these megalomaniacs and get rid of them. They commit way to many crimes under cover of law. The judge should be in jail as an accessory to murder.
Didn’t you hear? All current and veteran members of our Armed Forces are on the possible terrorist list Homeland Defense puts out. The State may have reversed their decision on Israel being a terrorist supporter, but I don’t remember ever hearing the same being said of our military members (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong).
Though I’m sure there are probably more professionals in the police ranks than otherwise, I’ve had more than a few admit that there are now officers who are more pumped up than they are conscientious purveyors of the law. What’s happening is that the young men who want to be cops are also victims of our very poor education system and have poor understanding of our laws, the rights of the people and therefore, little or nothing upon which to build a foundation for law-enforcement training.
Then there are the frustrated types who harbor anger and resentment for all the years they got treated badly in high-school. News flash, sports fans. EVERYBODY gets treated badly by their peers in high-school.
I’ve even had the personal experience of a security guard in a strip mall, with a big web belt and a giant flashlight threaten me because it was “close to closing time” and he wanted me out.
We are facing a peculiar crisis in America about authority and I’m watching two distinct personalities evolve. Those who crave authority and power, for all the wrong reasons and those who are cynical and hateful to those in authority. Granted, in the discussed situation as it stands, one begets the other.
But…it seems that the days of the well-raised, head-screwed-on-straight people who admire and respect the law enforcement profession and become good or excellent cops themselves are diminishing. It seems to me that the last time I got stopped, some years ago, the young policeman took an inordinate amount of time to 1)lecture me and 2) call me stupid. I was doing 53 in a 45. OK, so that’s “stupid” I guess. But I surely didn’t need the diatribe about his having to peel “dead people” off the road because they were “stupid” and “driving way too fast”.
*sigh*
But those kinds of things don’t seem that unusual these days. I understand enthusiasm for the job, the sharp uniform, etc. But respect comes with time and experience and treating the public (whom they serve) with respect as well.
I owe a lot of this to the exponential curve in the vertical of lack of patience for young people to want, more than anything, to be the icon and idol of everyone they meet. In other words, they got handed a raw deal from pre-school through grade, junior and high-school by never being told “no” and/or being held accountable. Plus some other wussification that is part of the left’s tool kit.
But the end result is high school graduates who are waaayyyyy too big for their britches. Not all…but a fair number. Zero respect for their elders and people in authority over them. Thus, they think they know how to do things because, hey, they’re 21, in a patrol car, with a gun….and can “do anything they want”.
Wrong.
Lack of discipline, knowledge, awareness of others, or all three makes a guy a bad law enforcement agent and gets the wrong people killed. Operating solely on self-ego satisfaction and adrenaline…well, that gives similar results.
Last thing this nation needs is a bunch of hotheads out there with high-powered firearms. We all know the type…but they are growing in numbers and it’s probably going to get worse before it gets better. Especially when the instances of complete lack of cooperation at a simple traffic stop occurs because (surprise) the new, young cop runs into a guy JUST LIKE HIM.
I don’t think police in general are any more arrogant or incompetant now than they were when I was growing up in the ’50s. They are, however, armed with a greater array of weaponry, more fearful due to the brutality and power of their opponents the drug gangs, and they are encouraged and empowered to use maximum force by their organization into SWAT teams.
SG-1, It is very informative to read such well thought through comments. Rather than a rant, you have obviously thought about the problem with cases like the Guerena case and have put thoughtful insight into words. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and thoughts.
You have probably ‘hit the nail on the head’ regarding the death of Jose. In all probability Jose’s older brother, Alejandro, had contact with Det. Tisch and did not show ‘due respect’. Although not proven, Alejandro was believed to be a bit of a smart-mouth. Tisch and Alejandro are close to the same age. Det. Tisch was a ‘man on the move’. He had graduated from NAU and joined the Pima County Sheriff’s Department. He was assigned (I believe he was still a deputy at this time) to the Three Points Station which is a LONG way from Headquarters, but just down the road from where Alejandro lived. Not exactly a great assignment, but probably not unusual for a beginner. Alejandro had called attention to himself and Det. Tisch saw an opening for a way out of the Three Points Station.
Det. Tisch began an investigation of Alejandro convinced that he could nail him for drug/drug traffic. Thus began an on again, off again investigation. It was a very spotty investigation that went on for months without producing any evidence of illegal activity by Alejandro. The best that the investigation could produce were traffic citations for things like “incorrect sized mud-flaps on a truck”, no proof of insurance, etc. The deputies/detectives often stopped and arrested Alejandro and his friends, however, they never filed charges as the stops/arrests were without any basis of fact. After 10 months (January 2009 thru October 15, 2009) the investigation of Alejandro stopped. Perhaps Det. Tisch’s supervisor ended it since they were obviously producing no evidence of illegal activity.
Det. Tisch makes no mention of surveillance of Alejandro, his family or friends, in the Affidavit in Support of the Warrant, between October 15, 2009 and April 19, 2011.
In April 2011 a report was made to the Sheriff’s Department that ‘men with guns’ were seen at a property owned by Alejandro’s father-in-law. The property was vacant and when the deputies entered the building they found what appeared to be blood on the floor and “bloody footprints” exiting the building. No dead body or injured person was found and no confirmation that the blood was human blood. Any follow-up on this incident is unknown.
The chances are very good that Det. Tisch heard of this incident and the father-in-law’s name ‘rang a bell’. Whatever the cause, Det. Tisch ordered, on April 20, 2011, surveillance to begin again on the Guerena family.
The first day of surveillance, after nearly 19 months, the undercover deputies/detectives were spotted, by Jose’s younger brother, Geraldo. Geraldo lived in his Mother’s home and saw the unmarked car. He got into his truck and followed the undercover car for 11 miles before turning and heading back home. During that time, the deputies/detectives in the undercover car were not successful in losing Geraldo. Perhaps Det. Tisch was in the surveillance vehicle, but that information has not been published.
No additional surveillance is noted after April 20th. Sadly, the failed surveillance of the undercover deputies/detectives on that day probably directly led to the tragedy of May 5th, just 3 weeks later.
On or about May 3, 2011 a Warrant was issued on the basis of Det. Tisch’s Affidavit in Support Of. (I have found no copy of a dated and signed warrant. Only undated & unsigned copies were available through the Sheriff’s Department.)
On the final page, where the judge is required to sign and date, Det. Tisch states, “During the SIU surveillance concerning the aforementioned subjects, they were not observed handling or even in the proximity of narcotics.” Det. Tisch goes on to say that even that does not mean they are not involved in the narcotic trade. It is almost inconceivable that the judge could have signed this warrant and not seen the clear ‘red flag’ regarding “….not observed handling or ‘even in the proximity’ of narcotics.” The Affidavit does not contain one shred of evidence (it must be read!) to support search warrants on any of the 4 properties search on May 5th. Jose’s home least of all. Any judge should have easily been able to recognize the lack of evidence in the affidavit. There is obviously plenty of blame to spread around.
It is conjecture on my part as to how Alejandro came into the ‘sights’ of Det. Tisch. The fact remains that this did occur and Det. Tisch, for whatever reason, orchestrated a tragedy.
As you predicted, “…the new, young cop runs into a guy JUST LIKE HIM.” is probably correct. The tragedy has happened. I wish you had been wrong, SG-1.
Well said …thanks for the info
How could a cop , under investigation on a shooting, even Be on duty? I thought they were all on administrative leave while under investigation by a shooting board?
Even Jack Webb (Sgt. Fiday) f****s up. He harassed and searched a suspect without telling him his rights or arresting him. Look for it.
If Guereno has any family worth their salt, Dupnick will be out of office sooner rather than later. Permanently.
That would just grant him martyr status and garner sympathy. I’d rather he be run out of office and into prison for a couple of dozen years. Or better yet, instead of prison how about one of Sheriff Joe’s jail camps? Dressed in pink.
Since that will NEVER happen, I’ll gladly let him and the rest of that “entry team” become martyrs, as long as they get know what/why just before the muzzles flash
Oathkeepers:
You are failing in your duty. Stand up now.
The “militarization” of civilian police forces has become a real issue in the whole Country. In small, peaceful, rural towns with no crime beyond juvenile misbehavior, the police look and act like they’re patrolling Kandahar. “Beat” cops are loaded down with every kind of Tacticool accessory the local cop shops sell. There was a front page picture here a few weeks back of the local cops arresting a guy who had been brandishing but who had dropped the weapon; half a dozen cops, all in kevlar from their heads to their toes, including fritz helmets, M-4s at the ready for some poor fool with a handgun who had been unsuccessful at suicide by cop and was surrendering. At that point, somebody’s grandmother could have cuffed the guy and led him away. Stuff like this happens everywhere, every day; the cops have the toys, mostly bought with federal grants, and they want to use them. Status is set and score kept inside the force by who gets to play with the coolest toys. In lots of forces you also get paid considerably more for being called out to play with the cool toys.
Most cops need to go back to more civilian-styled, dressier uniforms, wear their ballistic vest under their jacket, stop blousing their trousers and wearing “combat” boots, get rid of all the Tacticool stuff and get out and patrol neighborhoods and street evidencing a demeanor that indicates that you should go to them for help rather than hide form them for self-protection.
Oh, and since any fool can buy all that Tacticool stuff online, it has become the favorite tactic of theives to dress up like cops and assault a house. I live in a fairly peaceful part of town, though every now and again the gangstas make forays out into the suburbs, and I don’t answer the door unarmed when the knock or doorbell is unexpected. That unexpected visitor or bump in the night gets introduced to my Mossberg or my Saiga 12.
Very well stated. Thank you. Ironically, in the horrible interview that Vanessa endured after Jose’s killing, her son asked her, “Mommy, did the policeman kill Daddy?” Her response, “No, they came to help.” Did her statement to her son indicate her confusion as to what happened, or was she wanting to still believe that police could not possibly be ‘the bad guys’.
We all want to think that the police will help us.
Meanwhile, the DoJ is buying guns for the real drug gangs…
what can I say. The Marine was a trained professional , the swat team, a bunch of fools with guns.
So sad, so un needed. I grieve for this good man and his fafmly. I hope someone is making sure his wife and child have what they need.
“He was sound asleep when his wife Vanessa saw armed men in their front yard. A native of Mexico, Vanessa was alarmed and rushed to awaken Jose, who immediately ensured that Vanessa and their four-year-old son were hidden in the closet of a back bedroom, as far from the front door as possible. Wearing only boxer briefs, he retrieved the nearest weapon: a scoped AR-15 rifle. He had no idea what he was facing. The police were parked in front of his garage and the blinds of his front window — the only window offering a view of the front yard — were closed.
In the front yard, the Pima County Sheriff’s Department SWAT team, comprised of officers from four local agencies, assembled. The 54-second video of their botched assault is a stunning testament to their ineptness and lack of training and leadership.”
Actually the video that you mention completely exonerates the officers and proves that Vanessa Guerena was lying.
She claims that she saw armed men in her yard. The video clearly documents that the police arrived in marked police vehicles, with lights activated and they sounded their siren.
Officers in standard PCSO olive drab uniforms with “Police” in yellow lettering on the front and back of their raid vests entered the front yard and stationed themselves at the front door, then knocked and announced their presence.
If Vanessa Guerena saw “armed men” in her yard, then she saw uniformed police officers and sheriff’s deputies.
The real question is what she said to her husband. Why didn’t she say police were in the yard? Why did she say “armed men?”
This question is clearly more important that the issue of competancy of the entry team.
Clearly Vanessa Guerena either set up her husband to die, or he chose to resist the police.
It is most likely that since the police knocked and announced that in the end Jose Guerena knew it was the police. All esle is an academic exercise on how to stack, or command & control, or fire disipline.
It is clear that the writer is trying to gin up a controversy by selective analysis.
And, no, police do not only request search warrants for big raids on multiple suspects and large amounts of drugs. Agencies, both State, local and Federal used small raids and small amounts to start with in an investigation. To roll up a drug trafficing organization you have to usually start at the lowest level, meaning the street user or lowest level dealer.
Clearly this could be the case with Guereno. He was probably the smallest of the fish that the PD and SO were going to flip on the higher ups. Clearly the author needs some remedial training on investigations no matter his skill and familiarity with SWAT operations.
But in the end, the questions about what Vanessa Guerena says she saw must be answered before you can blame any of the officers for anything. It is sad and disconcerting that the author refuses to address what Vanessa Guerena says she saw when it is so critical.
Perhaps since the Erik Scott case has petered out and there has been no rush to Scott’s defense by his fellow West Pointers, this is why the author is riding this latest of his hobby horses.
But, to mix metaphors, this dog ain’t hunting either.
You are disgusting. The police had their lights flashing when they pulled up? For a no-knock warrant? They were deploying, and Mrs. Guerena saw them. So she set her husband up to die? Really? Why don’t you just call her a whore and stone her while you are at it? A war hero was undeniably murdered, and you choose to slander his wife.
The police behavior was consistent with a botched operation. They massed at the doorway. They fired without any provocation whatsoever. There was no proper investigation.
There was no reason for the judge to sign the order, except that it has become so banal to issue such warrants. He probably never read the details. There was no “judgment” used at all.
Neither the police nor the judge showed any concern for the possibility that the person might be innocent. Innocent until proven guilty means nothing to them. Nor does the 4th Amendment mean anything to them.
The worst part is the mentality, that it is far better that a civilian (whom they are supposed to be protecting!) die, than some “heroic” cop risk his life. I rather expect the cops to risk their lives and demand a surrender before opening fire. The problem is that the guy in the house had a gun. Police do not think citizens should have guns. They immediately get hostile. So, they fired as soon as they saw the gun.
Jack-booted thugs.
Agreed …guys probably a fed-pig…or wannabe …hoping one day he can armor up and crack some skulls …
I noticed that you did not address the facts, but made ad hominem attacks. That is the usual story with gun nuts. Attack the person, not the facts of the argument.
Deal with the facts. Why did Vanessa Guereno lie to either the press, which is more likely, or lie to her husband? There are only two choices.
Facts are facts. Deal with it. And grow up.
I noticed that you did not address the facts, but made ad hominem attacks. That is the usual story with gun nuts. Attack the person, not the facts of the argument.
Deal with the facts. Why did Vanessa Guereno lie to either the press, which is more likely, or lie to her husband? There are only two choices.
Facts are facts. Deal with it. And grow up. And learn to read.
Fed, You base your entire arguement on supposedly knowing what Vanessa saw. If she heard noises and took a quick peek out, she very likely saw “men with guns.” Nobody would stop to read the backs of their shirts – even if they could. Maybe she told Jose she didn’t know if they were cops or not.
You have no “facts” other than the ose you made up. You want real facts, look at the total lack of competence in the video. Look at the changed stories after the fact – by the cops. And look at the absurd warrant request. I’m in law in enforcement and support it – when done right.
Men with guns, in uniform with “Police” embazoned on the chest of their uniforms, with marked police cars in the front of the house, with their emergency lights activated, and sirens sounding.
That is why I know she is not telling the truth.
@ Federale said:
The video may or may not show anything that Venessa Guerena may or may not have seen. Your “assumption” of the timing involved and what she might have seen is your own, not mine, and certainly subject to further analysis.
What the video does show is the tail end of an obviously uncoordinated, undisciplined, poorly trained and ill-performing SWAT team setting up and then breaching the front door of a private residence and then losing control of themselves by shooting the place up.
During my career I was present at another police shooting like this, one where an armed suspect had broken into an empty residence. Thirty four officers set up containment on the house and were considering how best to enter when a gunshot rang out inside the house. In the next two minutes one hundred four shots were fired into the house. Only six officers, including myself, failed to fire – basically because we had no target. The suspect was found dead from his own bullet, the first shot we had heard. One other stray round stuck him in the leg. One hundred three of the shots, in my view, had been “panic” induced. I firmly believe the same should be said for at least 70 of the shots in Pima County that morning.
Obviously you have not viewed the video. The video clearly shows the officers and deputies in uniform with “POLICE” emblazoned on the FRONT and back of their raid vests.
Anyone who has seen the video sees that. And if Vanessa Guerena looked out the window, she would have seen that as well.
And if she was up and awake like she claimed, then she would have heard the sirens.
If she looked out the window, or even just “peeked” she would have seen the marked police cruisers with their emergency lights activated.
Clearly you did not see the video. Take a look. All is quite clear. Or don’t look, so you can believe a fiction.
Obviously you did not read my response. I do not disagree that the entry was botched, but that is not the issue here.
The issue is what Vanessa Guerena saw, what she said she saw, and what she told her husband.
Her claims of what she saw to the press clearly are not true. If she looked out the window, she would have seen armed men in the local police tactical uniform, olive drab, with “POLICE” emblazoned in yellow on their chests and back.
That is a fact, what is your claim on that fact?
If Vanessa Guerena looked out the window, she would have seen marked police vehicles with emergency lights activated.
That is a fact. What is your claim on that fact?
The police sounded a siren before approaching the house. That is a fact.
What is your claim on that fact? Is Vanessa deaf?
Why did Vanessa Guerena tell her husband that there were “armed men” attacking the house when, if as she claimed she looked outside, and outside were the police officers in uniform, marked police cars, and activated red and blue emergency lights?
What is your claim on these facts?
It is clearly impossible to mistake the officers in uniform in the video for “armed attackers.” They were obviously the police.
Lights, sirens, uniforms, they mean one thing, the police. How do you explain her claim that the “armed men” were not the police?
Clearly you have an agenda and it does not encompass the facts of the case.
The execution of the warrant is irrelevant. The issue is why Vanessa told her husband that armed men were attacking the house.
There can be only two explanations:
1. Vanessa Guerena is lying in her statements to the press because she told her husband that the police were at the house and he decided to resist the police.
2. Vanessa Guerena lied to set her husband up.
3. Vanessa Guerena lied because she did not tell her husband that it was the police, but her husband decided to fight it out with the police after the knock and announce anyway or was truely not aware that it was the police at the door.
But from the video, and those are the only facts in evidence, it is beyond any reasonable doubt that anyone looking outside would have seen the police.
The only alternative explanation is that Vanessa did not look outside the front of the house, but some other direction and saw an officer not in uniform with a displayed weapon.
No one has presented that as evidence. Nor has anyone presented any evidence that there were police not in uniform or with other identifiers such as raid vest anywhere except at the front of the house.
If the author has such evidence, then present it.
Otherwise there is nothing to support the claim that what Vanessa Guerena claimed is true.
Been there done that…
Warrington PA Swat team vs troubled teen with a BB gun in his back yard..
like 2003-2004 I remember.
Kid laughs at them, turns his back on them, and starts climbing the fence…
After 105 rounds fired from a half dozen MP-5s, they managed to strike him SIX TIMES, with a whopping 99 stray bullets flying through a residential neighborhood in broad daylight, multiple homes were struck (like 10 or 12 separate houses) on second and third stories even.
Complete loss of fire control, and no punishment.
“…but we’re THE POLICE!”
I’ve taken my rather lengthy reply to your extended comments [below this] to my own blog. I doubt you’ll show up there but you’d be welcome, anyway.
Fixed link
Fed-ellatio said:
“I do not disagree that the entry was botched, but that is not the issue here”.
Well then smartie-pants what IS the issue?…
It was the Botched Entry that got the man KILLED.
Change the subject to some pissing contest about what you, in your infinite omnipotent law enforcement wisdom can speculate she *coulda* *woulda* *shoulda* said to her husband before he was murdered?
Who botched the entry again?
Fed-elatio, you are pathetic.
Stop posing in the mirror with your *gun* and get some help before you hurt someone.
Fed-elatio
We’re not “gun nuts” any more than were “truth nuts” or “book nuts” or “job nuts” or “parent nuts” or “neighbor nuts”
Guns are simple common place things free people happen to have, like books, jobs, husbands, wives, neighbors, kids, cars, golf clubs, and motorcycles, and…
Socks…yeah, I have many pairs of those…I must be a “sock nut”
Its the Fed-elatios like YOU that think they’re SOO scary, powerful (and oh, so SEXY!) that you want to BE a black muscle suited Robo-cop with an MP5, while restricting them to little people, and calling us “nuts”
In fact, I’d trust *US* with the guns a lot sooner that I would *you*
None of “my people” have the horrible weapons handling skills that YOU GUYS demonstrate so regularly.
It aint that difficult little boy….stop looking at it as a sex toy, treat it like the simple tool that it is.
Until YOU people can show some competence with them,
just S.T.F.U. about who YOU call a “nut”, got that!
As usual for gun nuts, you did not address the central issue of what Vanessa Guerena knew and when did she know it.
She saw the cops and that is a fact. Aside from juvenile salaciousness, you have no argument and no facts. You are the typical gun nut.
Perfect! Perfect!
Spoken like a loyal fed! Seig Heil!
Any facts to present with your vile allegation Heinrich? I think not. You have no facts to support whatever you say or to contradict the facts as presented in the video and in Vanessa Guerena’s statements to the press.
Do us a favor,
Dont think
Cops and “thinking” are like oil and water.
People tend to get hurt when you guys “think” too much
I also saw the video, many times. Everyone knows “cops don’t lie” and cops are here to protect you. However mr fed liberal/socialist marxist commie, nowhere did I see you mention that The soldiers gun was on SAFE. You obviously wish to omit that fact. It’s in the official police report. Also there was no mention of any evidence rewquired for a no knock warrent. Those lines were left blank. Did you miss that fact too? In the video I saw They battered the door, ran in and fgired within 1 second. Watch the videwo obi-wan may you learn a fact. Your obvious commie/lib/socialist indoctrination is well established as per your own words. In other words….Ya cant fix stupid.
Soldiers? WTF? Guerena was a former Marine, not a former soldier. And so if his rifle was on safe? How would the officers had known that? You gun nuts aren’t too bright.
Jump to conclusions often?
What a disingenuous recasting of events, from a scamp who can’t even spell “discipline”.
There is no evidence–none whatever–in the many documents I’ve reviewed while researching this case to suggest that Vanessa Guerena is lying about anything. There is no evidence–none whatever–to suggest that she had any reason to want to see her husband murdered. Not even the police themselves in their cruel and abusive interviews of Vanessa pursued that line of questioning. Any suggestion to the contrary is contrary to logic and is simply making things up.
Remember too that Vanessa is a native of Mexico where armed men dressed as police and masquerading as police is far from uncommon. Indeed, even a visit from genuine paramilitary police in Mexico is generally not cause for rejoicing. There is no evidence that Vanessa Guerena recognized the armed men as police officers, but even if she had, considering her background, it would be eminently reasonable for her to doubt their identity and intentions. Jose surely understood this as well. The most logical conclusion is that those officers are alive because Jose ultimately recognized them as police officers at the last second, or, not being certain, chose not to shoot. His training, good sense and actions saved their lives. He was not so fortunate.
As I pointed out, the police virtually never serve search warrants in drug cases, particularly those with a year or so of investigation invested, unless they are certain they’ll produce significant results. That they did not in this case speaks volumes. Suggesting otherwise is, again, simply making things up.
By the way, imagining that the Erik Scott case has “petered out” or that West Pointers have not come to his defense is a remarkable demonstration of ignorance and/or wishful thinking.
Yeah! Get some!
Oh, so now you are admitting that the “armed men” Vanessa saw were the same police officers in the video? You are changing your story. Previously you were saying that she saw other “armed men.” So, which is it? Did she see the armed men in the video, or other armed men while looking out a window other than the front window? You got to make a decision here.
So, the rationalization is that criminals in Mexico routinely impersonate police officers in raids, so that justifies her telling her husband that “armed men” were attacking?
Just a reminder, the U.S. ain’t Mexico, and just because something happens in Mexico, does not justify thinking that here.
You are getting desperate. You first ignored Vanessa’s statements, now you are trying to rationalize them away. It will be great to get Vanessa on the witness stand under oath during the civil trial. Let her claim that the police officers she saw she thought were drug cartel members.
Oh, and how is that response from West Pointers on the Scott case? I think they are ignoring you.
Your second attempt at ginning up a Rosa Parks of the gun rights movement ain’t working out.
What a bunch of idiots. It’s truly amazing these fools didn’t shoot each other as well.
It sounds like the sheriff is trying to buy time to fabricate evidence to justify their royal selves actions against the peasants.
The cops should all be tried for murder. And I hope convicted and out away for many years.
Dupnik and his squad of cowardly, homicidal buffoons are angling for a job with the Obama regime’s Department of Injustice . What disgusting human scum !
@17 federale and the people responding:
The answer is somewhere in the middle. I did labor relations for the employer of a unionized police force for a lot of years. I’ve heard every story and I well know that pretty much nobody really knows the truth and the first liar really doesn’t have a chance.
Cops aren’t Infantrymen; my son is an infantryman and kicked in some doors in Afghanistan. They train for it all the time. They train for it until they know they’re really good at it. Getting hurt or killed is some remote, very remote possibility way in the back of their minds because they know they’re the best there ever was at this stuff. A SWAT team cop got just enough training to qualify him to be on the team – and get the extra pay. He doesn’t drill often, in poorer jurisdictions hardly at all. When he shows up at a door that might have a bad guy with a gun behind it, he isn’t confident and he’s scared if he has any sense. That if very different from the Infantryman he’s trying to emulated.
Most bad guys are dumb or they wouldn’t be bad guys, but many of them are very, very skillful at being bad guys; an ex-military bad guy might well be scary skillful at being a bad guy. Scared and unconfident people in dangerous positions are very dangerous to both themselves and others. I don’t know why the cops didn’t just knock and say, “Police, we have a warrant.” I think they should pretty much always do that first. Instead, the guy with the breacher blew the lock and in they poured firing away. A cop doesn’t have the right to use deadly force just because he doesn’t know the situation. He shouldn’t have the right to use deadly force just to enforce compliance but in some jurisdictions he does. These cops had no reasonable fear and no reason to think they were protecting themselves or others or apprehending a fleeing felon – that about covers most deadly force policies. They were scared, unprepared, and went in blazing.
But, that doesn’t make them a government conspiracy or jackbooted thugs. It just makes them a bunch of guys who probably got their job because they had veterans’ preference, could piss in a bottle, and more or less pass a BI; that’s what most younger cops are these days. Add to that that they’re poorly and often very politically led, and sometimes people die. If you’re a Democrat, it is a small price to pay. If you’re a Republican, you really ought to be thinking about how militarized both in personnel, image, and tactics we’ve allowed civilian police forces to become.
So, if this kind of action doesn’t make them “jack booted thugs” what would?
If they were doing this sort of thing as an orchestrated, state sponsored thing, that would fall into the jack-booted thug category. Dumb and poorly led and trained doesn’t qualify for jack-booted thug, though I’ll admit it often looks much the same.
This is what you get when you put Janet Reno in charge, or Sheriff Dipsh*t, same difference. Dumb and untrained jack booted thugs, who don’t respect the rights of the people they are sworn to protect. We need to stop this SWAT mentality and disband them. There are cases for SWAT, but they are few and far between.
Next, remove the liberals from positions of authority like Sheriff Dipsh*T. They have no respect for anyone’s rights except their own, or terrorists.
This mentality needs to be stopped here and now, we don’t need cops making excuses for this, there is NO excuse.
Thanks for you’re insights …spot on…but these atrocities must cease
Borrow and read a copy of UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES by John Ross (borrow because it’s out of print and the Amazon price is outrageous). About a third of the way through, the real action starts with a botched police raid. Sooner or later the kind of thing depicted in the book is going to happen for real.
What is a Dupnic?
I think the American voter has done it again – make a bad choice at the voting booth and you get a Dupnic! Seven year Dupnics make a really poor choice for law enforcement and it makes the whole voting block appear weak and progressive in nature!
Many who blog are advocating the ‘real-estate approach’ to ridding us of these undesirables – like they just go off and ‘buy the farm’! Seems a bit drastic and could become messy- besides bringing corrupt policemen – Justice Department Officials – and most of ‘President Os men’ from the current administration – up on charges ranging from ‘being dumb’ to ‘treason’ – well – it just makes sense!
After Fast and Furious broke it got me thinking about the shooting of Gabrielle Gifford’s and the Judge. He was going to rule against Obama the next day. The response seemed so orchestrated. The blaming of Sarah Palin and the Tea Party from the entire left. Almost as if they had spoken to each other and said, let’s blame them.
I’m very worried they recruited this mentally disturbed man to do this, knowing that if he tried to implicate them, he would not be believed. Dupnik knew of this guy’s history. The State Attorney in AZ has resigned after Fast and Furious. He was there when the shooting of Gifford’s and the Judge took place. With Obama, nothing is to be dismissed.
He along with his cousin Odinga in Kenya set fires to Christian Churches in Kenya after he lost his election. He is friends with Ayers, who wanted other countries to invade America and set up re-eduction camps in the Southwest. He has ties to many members of the Muslim Brotherhood. A few people from his church were murdered. The man who breached his passport was shot outside of a church in DC. We don’t have a president. We have an illegal, cold blooded killer in the White House.
By the way, I don’t think BP was an accident either. I’m not a “Truther” though.
Why doesn’t Pajamas Media report the name of the judge who issued the warrant
and the main malefactors in the Sherrif’s office? We know what an odious creepy bastard Dupnik is, but he isn’t the only villain in this story.
Who is the judge that signed the death, sorry, search warrant? And why isn’t his actions being more scrutinized. The judges action is what gave the police the authority in the first place.
@Patrick and Mike, As far as I know there has never been a copy of a signed (original) warrant released. There have been a couple of other warrants released that show the signature of the judge, but not the one used on May 5, 2011.
Late to the party, Mr. McDaniel.
An excessive operation? perhaps.
All evidence suggests that Guerena was a drug smuggler.
This wretched article and the disgustingly naive pro-Guerena comments perpetuate proven lies, just because Guerena was a (disgraced) veteran
Mr. McDaniel, you are a hack journalist who disgraces the credibility of Pajamas Media – your misinformed propaganda would be better suited at a site such as Alex Jones’ InfoWars, where facts don’t matter.
Damn fine gun handling though huh?
Evidence? Liar.
Have you read the warrant? Have you read the affidavit in support of the warrant? Have you read ANYTHING regarding this case?
Don’t criticize others unless you have read all the documentations and can point to specifics. “It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
OH? So do you now advocate SWAT teams executing suspected drug smugglers? Or just excusing the execution?
The phony war on drugs has turned our country into a police state. Now someone with an agenda can implicate a person with no facts to support their claim, a SWAT team can execute them, and you can excuse that?
Even if he was a drug smuggler, he sure didn’t deserve this! He served his country AND DESERVED HIS RIGHTS TO BE RESPECTED.
Tyler…I’ve just found Mr. McDaniel’s writings within the last year….and NEVER have I found a writer or blogger who’s so thorough with his investigations, research, reference material and interviews!
I spent 30 years in Las Vegas, a middle aged woman with a mini-van, who’s worse criminal act in life was a speeding ticket in the 1990s. Yet, I was SO VERY terrified of the Las Vegas cops. It was common for residents to simply know, it didn’t matter your age, your occupation (a pastor got it once) or how clean your record was…when those lights came on behind you, the least you’d receive was a thug at your window. And often, stories of innocent 70 yr old pastors were thrown over the hood for questioning their stop, etc.
As I had moved away from Vegas a couple years ago and was now seeing LEO back east, I was realizing, not all cops are that way.
Then along came Mr. McDaniel’s writings. He’s completely educated me on what a GOOD, well-trained cop is supposed to be. He has writings on how a traffic stop should be handled, etc., and he’s reinforcing what I am seeing back east: Kind, respectful law enforcement. A COMMUNITY COP, not an officer with the ‘us against them’ mentality!
When Mike does his writings, he sources them, and this old lady goes to that source and reads it also.
His writings are not only educational but are so interesting.
So Tyler, it is you that looks uneducated here. If you sat at your computer today, say from 4 to 5 pm, for the sole purpose of Googling Mr. McDaniel’s writings and reading such things as Confederate Yankee Erik Scott (just an hour of your time), you’d probably go back and delete your post out of embarassment.
Perfectly stated. Polite, honest and knowledgeable. Thank you!
Mr. McDaniel,
The biggest obstacle for the family now is not the truth, which hopefully if they survive summary judgment before discovery on the issue of qualified immunity, is the federal courts skewed view on that issue. Here in the 11th circuit the mjority of district court judges and the appellate judges have never scene a police misconduct issue that isnt covered by the doctrine of qualified immunity. In GA, Fla and Ala, the state and cops can kill, maim and violate one’s civil rights with impunity. Arizona is in either the 9th or 10th circuit which does have a reasonable view of “qualified immunity” but not much better. My prayers to the family and hopefully they got lucky and have a federal judge that is reasonable on the issue. Please don’t tell me this case was filed in state court. That would be a disaster waiting to happen.
Actually, the case is not in any court at the present time. (Arizona is in the 9th) Vanessa first had to file a claim with the various counties involved. They had until September 9th to respond. If her claim was denied, her attorney could then file a suit. Since nothing has been reported regarding her claim, I strongly suspect that all 4 jurisdictions involved in Jose’s death are trying to settle with her. Her attorney was extremely wise and filed the claim that the jurisdictions had ‘wrongly denied medical help for Jose which caused his death’. (The autopsy showed no ‘kill’ shot.) The fire/paramedics station can be seen from Jose’s home….it is that close. The paramedics sat outside the home for 1 hour and 14 minutes, leaving without ever seeing Jose.
Frankly, I think Vanessa will settle the ‘claim’ and avoid the courts. Her attorney will, no doubt, explain to her in detail what would be involved with the courts. The woman has endured an unspeakable tragedy and surly will not want to go through more.
Not the truth? Yeah, the truth is the greatest obstacle to any civil suit. Remember Vanessa will have to go on the stand and be cross examined. That will be a tough row to hoe for her given her statements to the press.
Hey “Federale” – admit the truth, you are just another ninja mall cop, aren’t you?
Yeah, Eric, you got me good. I am just a ninja mall cop.
Really?
What will be tough Fed-elatio, isnt her story holding up.
What will be tough is a reasonable explanation, under oath, to account for all the bullet holes in the doorway, just inches away from the faces of the incompetent fools that put them there.
Fed-elatios are incompetent with firearms, they cannot handle the the gravity of responsibility, and they should NOT have access to them.
If such was said by the Free People that employ you, you would no doubt turn your weapons upon US, and call US the criminal, wouldnt you?
Because as a Fed-elatio, we know where your loyalty is, dont we?
You are the only gun nut to mention bullet holes. What bullet holes? What does that have to do with Vanessa Guerena’s statements to the press that she saw armed men outside her house? And the only armed men were uniformed police officers.
Nah, sorry, no facts …none needed …you’re police state grovelling comments pretty much spell it out
Heinrich, studiously avoiding the facts. Name calling is so much simpler for brainless gun nuts.
The photos link mentions a $100,000 in cash found at the home. That seems like a lot of cookie jar money. Was that found not to be the case later because that isn’t clear from what I read?
The news story does NOT say $100,000 was found at the home. The language is deliberately fudged. Listen carefully and you will hear it said that the money was found in the search of the home in question and three other homes, without specifying which home(s) it came from. If that money had been found in the home where the shotting took place, the cops would have said so.
OK, thanks for clearing that up. That seemed rather suspicious but if wasn’t actually found in the home then its a non-factor.
You are correct SVT. The money was ‘supposedly’ found in the home of the father-in-law of Jose’s older brother. I say supposedly because there is no documentation of the money actually being found. No evidence lists, that have been released, show $100,000.00 in cash. This information was put out right after the information about Jose’s shooting became public. Most of the information that was put out at that time proved to be wrong, so the ‘cash story’ probably is also incorrect. Remember, the sheriff had a black-out on all information regarding the shooting, including Jose’s name, for a week!
Dear Sharrukin:
The police initially announced that $100,000 was found, but left it unclear where it was found, making it seem that it was found in the Guerena home. They later admitted that it was found in one of the three other homes searched on the morning of his death–no evidence of any crime or even possible criminal activity were found in the Guerena home, their vehicles, or anything under their control. The police have since rounded the amount of the seized money down some thousands of dollars.
As I mentioned in the original article, one of the tragedies of this debacle is that the police have, through their own efforts, greatly diminished not only their credibility, but the credibility of all police officers. One would be wise to take anything they have to say about this case with a grain of salt.
This is a joke, I can’t believe what I just read. Sheriff WHO???? WTF where is the F’ing out-cry PUKE.
Yeah they had a neighborhood warrant …whatever that is…
Liberal/conservative has nothing to do with it. In the military we are one team. This sheriff was out of line and just shows the prejudice present in AZ.
Sad beyond belief.
We can never know, for sure, what the widow said or saw. Did she say, “Policias con armas!”; or “Hombres con armas!” But, in any event, what, given time to do so, would any of us with experience in such matters have done in the shoes of the Marine? Answer: We would have LOOKED OUT THE WINDOW to see who the hell was milling around, armed, in our yard! We would have seen what the video shows, a police raid in progress. The young Marine never got to the window. He only took the time to hide his wife and kid because she failed to tell him it was the cops. If he had not wasted his time tucking his family in, he could have seen the cops and invited them in.
The cops did it all wrong and belong in prison or, better yet, executed. But mamas’ panic precipitated the disaster. Our Marine thought the Bad Guys were after him, and he got that from a wife who failed to communicate.
Funny, I submitted much the same commend about a fair trial followed by public execution for the ossifers involved. Didn’t make it past moderation.
Ferale, did it even occur to you that we wouldn’t be having this discussion if the trigger happy cops had just picked him up on his way home from the mine that morning? YOu know, as opposed to risking the lives of his innocent young children with a SWAT raid that was totally unecessary? Once he is in jail, take your time searching the house. No lives are risked (including the lives of the officers, had Guerena really been such a danger, which he was almost certainly not, but still). Good cop picks this guy up in the parking lot of the mine while he is shuffling out, tired from his day of work. Puts him in lockup. Knocks on the door of the house. Waits for LONGER THAN 7 SECONDS for a person that THEY KNOW FOR A FACT IS ASLEEP IN BED to answer the door. Maybe thinks for a second that a guy in his own house carrying a gun isn’t breaking any laws and unless he makes a furtive move at the cops, he shouldn’t be shot. I mean, a guy that hasn’t even shut the safety off on his rifle isn’t really menacing, is he? My guess is that since his safety was engaged, he probably wasn’t even pointing the gun – a marine wouldn’t have his safety on if he was preparing to fire, so my guess is that he was preparing to do no such thing.
As for the sirens, cops drive past my house with their sirens on all the time – I usually don’t think a thing of it. as for armed men, I’ve always hated that cops like you put people in the horrible position of having a split second to decide if the uniforms are real and they are really cops, and you shouldn’t fight back because they will kill you or put you in jail, or if they ar fake and you should fight back or else you just bought a front row ticket to the gang rape of your wife. It isn’t right that cops are doing this to people, and with the rising popularity of bad guys getting uniforms so that people don’t resist, I’m not sure a uniform would convince me if a guy broke down my door. If they knocked, waited for me to answer, and identified themselves? Different story.
The cops murdered him. There were dozens of ways that they could have pulled this off without a high-risk entry the way they did, but they chose the highest risk way to enter that they could and he is dead now. He is innocent of all the charges leveled against him, and they murdered him. End of story.
Hey Goober, they did not have an arrest warrant, so that is why they did not pick him up first. They had a search warrant. Different thing.
Almosdt as if it were a Deliberate way to hush Guerena up–well said. He worked at one of the ASARCO mines; security/background is tight there. I’ve Visited one. They blast almost every day. It would make More sense to bust him in such a controlled environment.
I talked to Chester Manning (Pima county Sheriff candidate), he agrees that cops can’t investigate themselves–it doesn’t Work. Only an Independent board of joe citizens can do that . Also, the fact that a group of cops walked in protest of the shooting soon after. Like, was this no exception to the rule? Or, did these peace officers (deputies, too) Know something that had not been Disclosed?
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Any update on this story? Or has the Pima County Sheriff’s Department “investigated” it long enough that the murder they carried out in the name of “law enforcement” is no longer considered relevant?