Shocked Serbians Celebrate Karadzic’s Capture
Late Monday night word spread rapidly across Serbia that TV news networks were reporting that Radovan Karadzic, junior partner in the Bosnian Serb fugitive dyad of Mladic and Karadzic, had been captured by Serbian authorities and was being prepared for hand-over to the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY).Initially, reports were vague, but even though they had been cruelly fooled before, moderate Serbs and Bosnians started to celebrate almost immediately.
Later in the day Serbian authorities revealed that Karadzic was arrested by “security forces” on a public bus in the suburbs of Belgrade. According to pictures released purporting to show him shortly after his arrest, he was unrecognizable as the Karadzic of wanted posters. In Serbian blogs, forums and Facebook groups he was mocked as looking like Santa Claus or the Asterix character Getafix.
Within hours of the arrest, conspiracy theories and urban legends were being traded across Serbia. They range from the ridiculous, “Karadzic played a gusle (a one stringed banjo) at Eurovision in front of 500 million viewers” to the absurdly true, “Karadzic was openly practicing as an alternative health expert in Belgrade”.
Karadzic’s arrest and presence in Serbia have genuinely surprised almost all observers of Serbian affairs.
It had become almost an article of faith amongst analysts that Karadzic was in Bosnia under the protection of the trans-Balkan mafia and renegade elements of the security services (that is, untouchable). Even former ICTY prosecutor Carla del Ponte thought he was in Bosnia and so did the BBC.
So what really happened?
For now it is almost impossible to figure out. There are vast networks of secret affiliation in Serbian politics. Events involving these networks — like high profile arrests, assassinations or surprise political alliances — generate furious speculation as to what’s behind them, but in reality there is no coherent political narrative, based on what is known and recorded, that adequately explains events.
The real causes will only be revealed in declassified cabinet papers, leaked intelligence service files, criminal trials and whistle-blower’s books. In other words – years from now.
There are, however, three predominate theories which purport to explain Karadzic’s arrest. They are presented here in reverse order of credibility.
SVR/KGB Serbian-nationalist – this is all the same political and security infrastructure; ideologies serve passions in the Balkans, and the passions are co-opted by the state. In this case, the state is in reality the web you point to: organized crime (yes, very organized), military factions, leading politicians (who could not survive otherwise), and secret services. As you point out, Western-leaning politicians will only be tolerated long enough to throw the West a scrap and provide some evidence that Country X, Y or Z is struggling to evolve in a liberal republican direction. Once achieved, and the West’s attention is diverted – which after all doesn’t take very long – the internal web yanks the Westernizing puppet out of the picture, and a leader more in line with the underlying power structure restores their official power.
The fact that this general has been sacrificed, and that Mladic will probably be sacrificed, does nothing to contradict your analysis – what better way to proceed than to create a fetish out of some terrible criminal over the course of a decade, and then, when he becomes useless, give him up? That way you convert a liability – a war-crimes general – into an asset: evidence that your country is struggling mightily to purge itself of its institutional racism and evil nationalism.
Probably the same will happen with bin Laden when the conspiratorial powers of Asian, headquartered in the Kremlin, make the same decision. Unfortunately it may occur after another 9/11 here in the USA – or perhaps London. In fact, if I were a Lubyanka jihadi, I’d think London would be the best target…
hey kabud – what does this mean? монархические
thank you sir
Karadzic has apparently been captured.
All the better for Serbia and Serbdom. Before you start to worry, I’m not the kind of idiot that uses phrases like “international justice”, “progressive democracy” and “isolationist” with a straight face.
Before I explain myself, ask yourself what putting Milosevic, Babic and Seselj on trail did for the “progressive democratic” government in Serbia. Ask yourself what kind of “international justice” gives Serb politicians/officers 30 years to life for being apart of some pseudo “Joint Criminal Enterprise” while Croat, Muslim and Albanian politicians/officers are given a “get out of jail free card” and receive a hero’s welcome in their “respective” countries despite there being damning evidence against them. Finally, ask yourself what sending all the people that defended Serb civilians during the 90s to the Hague has done for brining Serbia out of “isolation” and closer to the European Union (which apparently is the only solution to the “isolation” problem.)
This is something Serbs all over the world continue to ask themselves as they realise they aren’t considered equals (or even human beings) to other Europeans or to Americans. Serbs are shown that their suffering isn’t important because the pseudo idea of “Greater Serbia” must be crushed and any evidence of crimes against Serbs is considered propaganda helping the cause of those who wish “Greater Serbia.”
There is a widespread and noticeable characteristic/trait among Serbs called “Inat.” To sum up Inat think “never forgive, never forget” with “better the grave then a slave” and “only unity saves the Serbs.” Inat has long helped and plagued Serbs as Serbs were able to resist mighty nations that found their Achilles’ Heel in the mountainous/forested areas of the Balkans inhabited by Serbs. The battle of Kosovo in 1389 wiped out many men of Serb ethnicity but delayed the Turkish invasion of Serbia, Bosnia and Europe for 40-50 years thus allowing Austria-Hungary to build up its defences and sealing the fate of the Turkish expansion into Europe. The refusal to accept Austro-Hungarian annexation of Bosnia inevitably led to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand 6 years later. When Serbians refused to hand over Black Hand members and allow Austrian soldiers within its borders it led to the death of the Austria-Hungary after a bitter 4 year war that ravaged Europe. In 1941 Serbs revolted against their weak kneed government (which signed a pact with Hitler) and practically declared war against Nazi Germany and its allies in the Balkans. After several royalist groups (called Chetniks) refused to surrender to the Axis, Hitler ordered the delay of Operation Barbarossa to put down the rebellion (the action ultimately unsuccessful in itself) which eventually sealed Nazi Germany’s fate when its mechanized invasion force became useless in the Russian Winter.
These events did not shape Serb Inat but rather these events were shaped by Serb Inat. Eventually those who think little of the Serbs will watch their nations collapse as they make a mistake of venturing in the Balkans, sure that Serbs will succumb or be wiped out. If history has taught us anything then its that nations collapse but Serbdom lasts. Now Serbs are fighting a new type of enemy which have taken the communist doctrines of pummelling someone while trying to convert them. What has US/EU actions against Serbs done? It means that now those nations have 3 temporary allies and 1 permanent enemy. Ironic that Serbs were so willing to be friends with the US/EU… now more and more have come to my way of thinking that only resistance is the answer. Now, if the news about Karadzic is true (the man who was much more popular among Serbs then either Milosevic or Seselj, being popular among Serbs in the same way Churchill is popular among Brits) then his trial or death will fill many Serbs around the world with a lot of resentment towards the US/EU. In the end, nations fall but Serbdom lasts.
dan:
>hey kabud – what does this mean? монархические
means royal, monarch-ial
i was not reading this article and accidentally clicked on a wrong one , hence read your question
in the future: click on my name – it links either to my blog where u can leave a message or my email
u r in ny , right?
What about a country giving one of its citizens to be tried in some international court, or perhaps kangoroo court? How future generations of Serbs will see this? To play with national feelings of a people that was known as the “guardians of the gate” because they closed the access of Ottomans to Central Europe, that could be to play with the fire. But today the world is governed by smart people, so smart that they can ignore the lessons from the past.
*
And what about the informal list of American war criminals that from time to time circulates in Europe. People like Kissinger — remember Chile? — and certainly Bush? To be or not to be in that list is only a matter of good press. Someday as Kissinger arrives in Paris he can be arrested under the order of some little judge fishing for his 15 minutes of fame. For sure president Obama will not send the Marines nor the CIA, he will try to negotiate a pleasant solution.
So, before celebrating the jailing of a notorious criminal think a little and prepare for future problems.
we should arrest Kissinger NOW for spying for kremlin
and sent our troops to Moscow to finish with you bosses Azores, once and for all
Bush is a very weak and not very smart President: his actions were limited and he never was able to overcome communist subversion in his administration
Ah Serbs…very easy to conclude…Serbs: The Nation the West Sacrifices!
Riding the wave of the West’s well-organised and well paid- for overthrow, are now in the final phase of the liquidation of the Serbian state as such. The Belgrade regime has broken its own record of humiliation of Serbs.
Just a day or two after the formation of a new government, an acid test was held. The Serbian press was coloured by headings that demanded that Serbia acknowledge Kosovo, for the simple reason that otherwise it would allegedly stand no chance of “having to do with the EU.” Two weeks later Serbian Foreign Minister V.Eremic demanded that the procedure of recalling Serbian ambassadors in the countries that acknowledged independent Kosovo ”for consultations” that had already been a sham, be abolished. And finally the gang of Belgrade Democrats stunned the world with another piece of news: Radovan Karajic was put under arrest.
Mirko Cvetkovic, Chairman of the Serbian government has said that having apprehended Radovan Karajic Belgrade has made a “big stride forward”, calling for the two remaining “suspects”, Ratko Mladic and Horan Hajic, to surrender to the tribunal as it would allegedly be “better for themselves and the Serbian people.” Cvetkovic said that the apprehension of Karajic was a manifestation of “reconciliation in the region, creating of foundations of a better life and facilitating protection of Serbia’s territorial integrity.” A rare case of verbosity, that! Neither Croatian nor Muslim authorities would ever say as much when the tribunal apprehended their citizens. The United States has taken its citizens from under the jurisdiction of the Hague completely. Albanians view arrests of “theirs” as a national tragedy, and their liberation as a national triumph (even if it takes murdering all eyewitnesses). But only the wound puppets that currently personify authority in Serbia continue to pronounce their crammed lines about “international law”, obediently turning it against Serbs.
There are many mysteries about the arrest is mysterious. To date, according to unproved information, the Security and information Agency had a finger in the case, but the police and Interior Ministry made haste to negate their involvement in that (!) It is unclear when exactly Karajic was arrested. Was it in a Route 73 bus running to Batainica (a Belgrade suburb in New Belgrade, the Vracar district, etc. The VOA and a number of other international broadcasters that announced Karajic’s arrest are doing their best to avoid providing details about the arrest. People from the committee for the links with the tribunal do not overstrain themselves by offering information about the ways the Serbian special services “traced Karajic”, and whether they did it themselves or otherwise.
July 14, 2008 John Clint Williamson, a US representative on the committee for military crimes said that Mladic and Karajic were in Serbia, and their arrest depended totally on the degree of preparedness of the Serbian government. The clearly worded order was received. Then as the lawyers of Radovan and Tomislav Nikolic (the leader of the Serbian Radical Party) and Florance Artman (the former press-secretary of the former Tribunal Prosecutor Carla del Ponte) say, the authorities took three days to inform the nation about their new betrayal. Serbia’s parliament’s speaker Slavica Jukic-Dejanovic (the Serbian People’s Party) announced a fortnight recess (immediately after consulting top Serbian government officials wishing to avoid protests that could have interrupted the blessed process of joining the European community. (Incidentally, among other issues the session she postponed was to study was the issue of ratification of the agreement with Russia on “The Southern Stream.”)
The arrest of Radovan Karajic is for Brussels the best guarantee of the fact that Serbia would also hand Ratko Mladic to the Tribunal.”
Top level EU authorities never tire of harping that extradition of Mladic is a necessary prerequisite for Serbia’s obtaining the EU candidacy. Those repeating their crammed lines of being authorised to speak on behalf of “the world community” have again put to Serbia their regular ultimatum, so the Belgrade puppets would now have to go the full way to capture Mladic, thus ensuring the acknowledgement of “independent” Kosovo. The path to their “European tomorrow” is paved with dead bodies…
At the same time the authorities of the Serbian Republic go out of their way in Bosnia and Herzegovina (B&H). They also made a decision to postpone the work of their parliament (Skupcina) “in order “to decrease the emotional heat.” They would like to see people forget that the very existence of the Republic of Serbia is the doing of Karajic and Mladic, who put up a fight to defend their nation, preventing both Bosnian Muslims and Croats from staging a bloodshed in Serbia with the support of the US and NATO military and propaganda machinery.
A brief reminder: the 1991 census had it that 43% of the B&H population were Muslims (1, 905, 000 people), 31% – Serbs (1,369,000) , 17% – Croats (755,000), and 240,000 of “Yugoslavs” . Serbs were the absolute majority of the B&H population, 53% in all.
The wish of the Muslim leader Ali Izetbegovic to separate B&H from Yugoslavia was all-absorbing. He did not care for either adversaries in his own Muslim camp (he destroyed one of them, Fikret Abdic, the man who established in Bosnia’s west an autonomous territory, where he established also good contacts with both Serbs and Croats, using the 5th Muslim corps), or objections of Serbs who did not want to be dissolved among other people inside a unitary Muslim state. The dictatorship of Izetbegovic’s party (The Democratic Action Party), Islamization, his unilateral separation from Yugoslavia (paying no heed to Serbian interests), the general mobilisation of Muslims, supplies of arms and soldiers of fortunes from abroad (Malaysia, Pakistan, Algiers, Libya, Turkey, the United States, Italy, Germany and Japan), the establishment of a reconnaissance and intelligence residency networks in the Balkans – these all are the fundamental milestones on the road of Bosnia’s and Herzegovina’s “independence.)
The paramilitary units “Patriotic League” (set up in May of 1991, 98,000-stong), “Green Berets”, “Hanjar Division”,” Husine”, “Smail aga Cencic”, “Kemal Pasha Atakovic”, Crveni Fez, Garda, Drina and others fought against Serbs in B&H. The Croats were represented by the Croatian Defence Vece (Croatia never observed the embargo on arms supplies introduced September 25, 1991 by Resolution N0 747). In his day the Croatian leader F.Tujman warned W.Zimmerman, the US Ambassador in Yugoslavia, against the danger of Islamic fundamentalism. The ambassador was then quoted as saying “the USA knows where the real danger may come from – Serbs and the Yugoslavia’s People’s Army.” In line with the former plan NATO aircraft dealt incessant blows on the positions and rearguard of Bosnian Serbs from August 30, 1995 through October 12, 1996.
Following the conclusion of the Dayton Agreements, Americans removed the leaders of Bosnian Serbs, president R.Karajic and General R.Mladic from the political scene. But that was not enough for “the global elite.” What they wanted was to have the party to blame, the Serbs. The Tribunal made its accusations of Karajic, currently with 99 points on it, including one, “genocide of Srebrenica Muslims.” But even a cursory glance at the Srebrenica tragedy indicates that the genocide took place, but against Serbs rather than Muslims as more than 3,000 of them were murdered in Srebrenica’s suburbs. Instead, the Hague Tribunal made a ceremony of liberation of Naser Oric, the criminal who had organised the massacre and killed people himself
The West keeps silent about the genocide history of the establishment of the independent Croatia where there are virtually no Serbs at present. A timid attempt of the Russian diplomacy to raise the issue of sanctions against Croatia for the genocide of the Serbian population (according to different evaluations 250,000 to 350,000 Serbs fled Croatia during the military operations “The Shine” and “The Storm”, and more than 600,000 Serbs were expelled from Croatia) was easily blocked by Washington at the UN Security Council. The arrest of Radovan Karajic is viewed as an answer to Moscow’s demand to discontinue the activities of the Hague Tribunal.
Serbs is a nation that the West has decided to exterminate. The Western puppeteers intend to do that with Serbian hands, too.
The arrest of Radovan Karadzic in Serbia on Tuesday has provided yet another occasion for all the tired old propaganda about the Balkans wars to be taken out of the cupboard and given one last airing. In particular, the war is presented as one between a Serb aggressor and an innocent victim, the Bosnian Muslims, and the former is accused of practising genocide against the latter. Even if one accepts that crimes against humanity were committed during the Balkan wars, it should be obvious that both these claims are absurd.
First, the Serbs were no more the aggressors in the Bosnian civil war than Abraham Lincoln was an aggressor in the American Civil War. The Yugoslav army was in place all over Bosnia-Herzegovina because that republic was part of Yugoslavia. Bosnian Muslims (like Croats) left the army in droves and set up their own militia instead, as part of their drive for independence from Belgrade. This meant that the Yugoslav army lost its previous strongly multiethnic character and became largely Serb. It did not mean that Serb forces entered the territory of Bosnia, or even that the Serbs attacked the hapless Bosnian Muslims.
The accusation of aggression is intended to introduce by the back door an allegation which in fact has vanished from modern international criminal justice. Although the crime of waging an aggressive war was pronounced to be the supreme international crime at Nuremberg, it has been dropped from the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court for the former Yugoslavia which will presumably try Karadzic once he is extradited to The Hague, and even the new International Criminal Court (also in The Hague) does not for the time being have jurisdiction over it.
The accusation has the effect of condemning the Bosnian Serb war effort at its very origins (in terms of ius ad bellum) independently of any condemnation for the way the war was fought (ius in bello). In fact, the Bosnian Serb war effort was no more or less legitimate than the Bosnian Muslim war effort. The Muslims wanted to secede from Yugoslavia (and were egged on to do this by the Americans and the Europeans) while the Bosnian Serbs wanted to stay in Yugoslavia. It was as simple as that.
In my view, it is not possible to adjudicate such matters using the criminal law since, as political questions, they transcend it. But the fact that the Muslims blatantly cheated by holding the vote on an independence referendum at 3 a.m. after the Bosnian Serb deputies in the Bosnian parliament had all been told to go home, and the fact that the Bosnian Muslim president, Alija Izetbegovic, remained in office throughout 1992 long after his term had expired and long after he should have handed over to a Serb, meant that the Bosnian Serbs had excellent grounds for believing that the Bosnian Muslim secession was quite simply a coup d’état.
In any case, once the Muslims had seized power in Sarajevo, the Bosnian Serbs sought not to conquer the whole republic but instead simply to fight for the secession of their territories from Muslim control. Of course atrocities were committed against civilians during this period, especially ethnic cleansing. But the same phenomenon is observed, I believe, and by definition, in every single war in which a new state is created, whether it is the creation of Pakistan in 1947 or the creation in 1974 of what later became the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. If the Muslims had the right unilaterally to secede from Yugoslavia, why should the Bosnian Serbs not have had the right unilaterally to secede from the new state of Bosnia-Herzegovina which had never before existed and a state, and to which the Bosnian Serbs had no loyalty whatever?
Second, the Bosnian Serbs are accused (and two have been convicted) of committing genocide against the Bosnian Muslims in the massacre perpetrated at Srebrenica. Let us leave aside for a moment the Serb claims that the numbers of people killed in that summer of 1995 has been artificially inflated for propaganda purposes; let us also leave aside the undoubted fact that the Bosnian Muslims were using the UN safe haven of Srebrenica as a safe haven from which to conduct constant attacks against the Serb villages surrounding the town, during which many atrocities were committed against Serb civilians. (The commander of the Muslim forces, Nasir Oric, was released by the ICTY in February.)
What is clear is that the Srebrenica massacre cannot possibly be described as genocide. Even the most ardent pro-Muslim propagandists agree that the victims of the massacre there were all men. The Bosnian Serbs claim that they were combatants (although that is certainly not an excuse for killing them) but the point is that an army bent on genocide would precisely not have singled out men for execution but would have killed women too. The Srebrenica massacre may well have been a crime against humanity but it is impossible to see how it can be categorised as genocide.
Unfortunately, there is a very clear political reason why it has been so categorised. The Muslim president of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Haris Silaijdzic, said carefully on CNN the day Karadzic was captured that Karadzic’s trial was only the beginning of the process by which justice would be done in Bosnia. He said that there were hundreds of thousands of Muslims who had been ethnically cleansed by “Karadzic and Milosevic” and that their project therefore remained in force. The clear implication of what he was saying was this: if the very existence of the Bosnian Serb republic (the autonomous region within Bosnia carved out from the republic during the civil war) is found, in a court of law, to have been had as its president a man, Karadzic, who is convicted of genocide in the process of creating it, then its status would be illegitimate and it should be abolished. The Muslims continue to claim control over the whole of the territory of Bosnia-Herzegovina, while the Serbs merely want the preservation of their considerable autonomy within it.
In other words, far from bringing peace to the Balkans, it is quite possible that a conviction of Karadzic for genocide will reopen the Dayton settlement and egg the Muslims on to claim control over the Serb republic too. Under such circumstances, it is inevitable that the Bosnian Serbs would try to proclaim formal secession from Bosnia, just as the Kosovo Albanians did from Serbia.
My position is that all parties: Serbs, Croats, fyrom republicans, Bosnian Muslims, and ethnic Albanian Kosovars are not in a position to be pointing the finger of recrimination at any of their opposites. There is plenty of guilt to go around when it comes to the inhumane acts committed during the 1990′s Balkan war. The Serbs should not be singled out as the clear villains whilst conversely the Muslims are represented as heroic victims of Serbian aggression. And wasn’t the United States founded upon a policy of racial cleansing? As far as I know, millions of native Americans are still segregated on reservations and living under abysmal third world conditions of poverty. Where is their advocacy? Why is it that the well being and ‘rights’ of Muslims are always a priority in the Western World even when their activities and even openly stated agendas are in contravention of our own best interests?
This entire affair, from the post Yugoslav federation break up which led to the Bosnian war itself, to the subsequent prosecution of ‘war criminals’ -such as Radovan Karadzic -, to the ‘liberation’ of Kosovo, has been an EU: stamping out the last pockets of State supported ethno-Nationalism operation. It is among the Slavs, particularly the Southern Slavs, that the Nationalist impulse is yet most evident among the peoples of Europe. In short, the Serbs were aggressively asserting themselves as a ‘National’ group and defending the integrity of their Nation’s sovereign territories from Croat and Muslim separatists in Bosna-Hercegovina and Shipëtar (ethnic Albanian) separatists in Kosovo -and thus an increasingly alarmed EU and the wider globalist political elite decided the Serbian Nationalistic spirit needed to be brutally crushed and decisively extirpated. How else could the psyches of the Serbian people become pre-conditioned for the EU’s multicult propaganda and assorted mind control tactics? Nationalism, you see, is not only the antithesis to globalism; it is also the antidote: providing some immunity from the allure of EU collectivism and its siren song of economic prosperity, inter-ethnic harmony, and endless government subsidised freebies.
And if the Serbs weren’t decisively beaten into the ground, what ill-effect might this blatant display of National independence, ethnic and racial pride in the heart of Europe have had on the hard won public opinion of the already subjugated European population who had themselves long been duped into accepting multiculturalism as a desirable social development, and also successfully lulled into a complete state of indifference as the EU’s litany of lies piled one atop the other; and an seemingly innocuous economic and trade cooperative surreptitiously morphed into a rigidly centralised political union?
And apparently this joint EU/American/UN war on Nationalism was a smashing success; if judged by the at present unbridled enthusiasm of the Serbs at their Nations integration into the EU Police State; even as they vent their fury over the losses in Bosna-Hercegovina and Kosovo; an outrage facilitated by their new ‘friends’ in the EU Council of ministers.
But shouldn’t the European Nationalist community support the Nationalist aspirations of the Bosnian Muslims and ethnic Shipëtar Kosovars? Isn’t that what we are all about?
No.
And I’ll tell you why, and also why we should be concerned about the precedent this event might set for the future ambitions of US’s own growing ethnic minority groups.
The arrest of Dr Karadzic is bad news for anyone interested in justice, as is anything which is perceived as giving credibility to the tribunal at the Hague. I make no comment on his guilt or innocence, not only because it’s inappropriate when someone is awaiting trial, which so many commentators forget, but because Yugoslavia, like Iraq, is somewhere about which so many lies have been told that it’s difficult to be confident of the truth of received wisdom, and especially of the true basis for demonisation of a people or individual.
In order for such a tribunal to deserve support, a number of conditions must be met – two in particular. One is that there should be at least a possibility of movement towards even-handed application of the law. The other is that trials should be fair (or at least that the tribunal should strive for fairness) and the verdicts not decided in advance of the trial.
The Hague tribunal fails both of these tests. Firstly, there is no possibility of a US President or a British Prime Minister or a NATO Secretary General being prosecuted, no matter what their crimes, nor is there any possibility of movement towards that end.
Secondly, although the occasional minor defendant may be acquitted, the Hague tribunal does not acquit big fish like Karadzic. Anyone who paid even cursory attention to the Milosevic trial cannot but have been shocked at the blatant bias of the judges and the ridiculous unfairness of the proceedings.
As for his death after being given inadequate time and resources to mount his defence, and then denied medical treatment for his heart problems, when it had become clear that even the corrupt judges of the tribunal would struggle to justify a guilty verdict on the evidence presented, there is plenty of commentary elsewhere. Suffice to say that Karadzic should be very afraid.
I am happy for people to correct me – but why is it that the Hague only ever appears to prosecute Serbians? During the civil war in the former Yugoslavia, surely some people from other “nationalities” or “groups” such as Croats, Slovenians and Bosnian Muslims must also have done dreadful things? ( Someone above mentioned the names: Tudjman, Haradinaj and Oric.) Perhaps Serbia is a special case due to its support from its fellow Slavs in Russia.
In addition, I believe that – under the careful ministering of NATO troops – there has been a certain amount of ethnic cleansing of Serbians in Kosovo by Albanians; so can we expect any Albanians to face trial in the Hague? I thought not. But what exactly are the prescribed evasions for this inconsistency?
All of the commentators here present interesting points. As an American who firmly believed that there were clear-cut heroes and villains in the Balkan war of the early 1990s, I can say now that my mind has been altered and I have started to wonder if we did not handle the situation in the fairest way possible. The fact that the Muslims left the Yugoslav army in droves and formed their own militia was in and of itself an act of aggression.
I can understand why we didn’t get a lick of goodwill from the Islamic world defending the Bosnian Muslims. We were unexpected but beneficial fools in the game to those who wished to see Islamic expansion in SE Europe.
What’s next? Will the areas Muslims become more emboldened by a President Obama, or a President McCain (who would continue the policies of the past)?
My advice to wideawake is to never bet on Jihad and never bet on the truthfulness of Muslims. Jihad is eternal no matter how many Radovan Karadzic killed. If they say he killed 20,000 Muslims, he really killed 3,000
3,000 is nothing compared to Muslim massacres such as the 80 million Hindus killed over 3 centuries by Muslim barbarians or the 2 million Christian Armenians Greeks Syrians killed by the Turks circa 1920
Never bet on Jihad. Remember that if you remember nothing else
and one more thing…After ~18 years of Balkan wars what do the Muslims have?
They have a Muslim Kosovo for a Europeans drug dealing base. Base for other Europe-wide criminality too
They have a Muslim Bosnia
18 years ago they had neither. How exactly did Muslims come out short on all this?
I guarantee you Muslim don’t care about 3,000 Muslims dying since in the wider context they got Kosovo and Bosnia. They’ll call the 3,000 martyrs and happily move on
There was no more “Yugoslav army” after said Yugoslav army destroyed the Yugoslav Constitution in March 1989.
It was a Serbolshevik army from then on, and everyone but the Serbs left it when it attacked Slovenia in June 1991, which temporarily impaired its operational capability.
If only Tuđman, who had left it in 1967 and didn’t understand how much it relied on non-Serbs for demographic and technical reasons, had heeded the advice of generals Špegelj and Tus to seize its material hoarded in barracks, and make good on his commitment to help Slovenia…
The war in Croatia would have lasted three weeks and there would have been none in Bosnia-Herzegovina.
Bosnia-Herzegovina didn’t “leave Yugoslavia”; two thirds of its voters refused to join the shotgun marriage of Serbia, Kosovo and Montenegro which Milošević called the “Federal Republic of Yugoslavia” in order to fool the ignorant, and they chose instead to express the “sovereignty” which the 1974 Constitution granted their “state”.
The initial appearance of Radovan Karadžić has been scheduled to take place Thursday, 31 July 2008 at 16:00 in Courtroom I before Judge Alphons Orie.
http://www.un.org/icty/pressreal/2008/pa345e.html
Several courts of justice, both NATIONAL and International, have found that Serbs committed genocide in Bosnia-Herzegovina:
–On 12 July 2007 the European Court of Human Rights upheld the conviction for ”genocide” by the GERMAN courts of the Bosnian Serb paramilitary leader Nikola Jorgić. In Germany, Jorgić had been convicted of having carried out ”genocide” in the Doboj region in 1992.
–In a procedural ruling in the Milošević case of 16 June 2004, the Trial Chamber of the ICTY had concluded that:
“there is sufficient evidence that ”genocide” was committed in Brčko, Prijedor, Sanski Most, Srebrenica, Bijeljina, Ključ and Bosanski Novi”.
–The Srebrenica genocide was also recognized by the International Court of Justice.
srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/2008/04/open-letter-by-54-academics.html
–Most recently, another NATIONAL court, this time in Bosnia-Herzegovina, convicted seven Serb murderers for the Srebrenica genocide:
srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/2008/07/7-serbs-convicted-srebrenica-genocide.html
Thus, it is a legally established fact in NATIONAL jurisprudence as well as in international law.
And since genocide in Bosnia-Herzegovina on the part of the Serbs was proved before several NATIONAL courts as well as by international tribunals, the attempt to discredit that finding on account of an alleged “internationalist” ideology on the part of the judges fails –in addition to being an ad hominem fallacy.
The charge that Serbia was targeted because it refused to yield to Internationalist Socialist Pseudo-Democracy is being made in disregard of the facts:
The Serbian leadership violated the “independence and sovereignty” of the Republic of Croatia — a “STATE” according to the Yugoslav Federal Constitution of 1974–
–when it fomented a separatist uprising of the Serbs in the Knin region in August 1990, and
–when it launched a conventional military invasion and extermination attempt in August 1991 against said Republic of Croatia after it had illegally usurped the power of the Yugoslav presidency.
The de facto state of “Federal Republic of Yugoslavia” violated the SOVEREIGNTY of two internationally recognized states:
–The internationally recognized SOVEREIGNTY of the state of Croatia as it maintained separatist Serb enclaves on its territory from January 1992 to 1998 and
–The internationally recognized SOVEREIGNTY of the state of Bosnia-Herzegovina starting April 6, 1992 –until at least July 2001 when it stopped paying the wages of the officers in the separatist Serb army there, as it launched a war of conquest and extermination to destroy said internationally recognized SOVEREIGN state of Bosnia-Herzegovina.
The INTERNATIONALIST UN Security Council voted in September 1991 a resolution which banned sending weapons to Yugoslavia, something which hampered the defense against anti-Constitutional and later International Serbian aggression upon the “independent and sovereign” Republic of Croatia.
That same INTERNATIONALIST arms embargo prevented the equally “independent and sovereign state” of Bosnia-Herzegovina from defending itself against INTERNATIONAL aggression from the so-called “Federal Republic of Yugoslavia” after its “independence and sovereignty” had been internationally recognized starting April 1992.
Said INTERNATIONALIST arms embargo was passed and enforced during most of the Bosnian war because the United States did virtually nothing against Serbian aggression until February 1994 –that is, FIVE years and a half after the Serbian leadership had stated destroying the Federal Constitutional order of Yugoslavia –with the so-called “Yoghurt revolution” in Voivodina, and because several other governments were the accomplices of Serbian INTERNATIONAL aggression:
–the British government until September 1995 and
–the French government until June 1993.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/22/radovankaradzic.warcrimes2
It is therefore quite obvious that the charges made against the Serbian leadership are NOT a disingenuous assault on the part of Internationalist Pseudo-Democratic Socialists against genuine nationalists, but on the contrary a BELATED reaction of NORMAL people to an absurdly aggressive PSEUDO-NATIONALISM which DENIES THE RIGHTS OF OTHER NATIONS, in obvious contravention to the COHERENT nationalist principle formulated by French NATIONALIST Jean-Marie Le Pen:
“Nationalists of all countries, unite”.
It is also quite evident that the Greater-Serbian project has been pursued since the late 19th century at the expense of the Serbian people and AGAINST ITS INTERESTS.
docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc2m8p62_29cms7zccs
It was upon that reasoning that NORMAL Serbian politicians Marko Nikezić and Latinka Perović drew the blueprint for the 1974 Constitution, which is still the legal basis for the independences of the former Yugoslav republics and autonomous province: not because they didn’t care about Serbia’s interests, but because they did.
docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc2m8p62_1314b7gs4cp
Accordingly, the independence and international recognition of MONOETHNICALLY ALBANIAN Kosovo is being made in accordance with that same principle of NATIONAL SOVEREIGNTY, the only departure from said principle coming from the remnants of international colonialism, which has replaced Serbian COLONIALISM there.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmfaff/28/28ap20.htm
Yet, since a debate upon what is called “the rules of EVIDENCE” in judicial procedure might still be relevant, it might be interesting to witness the way some PSEUDO-nationalist critics of Internationalist Pseudo-Democratic Socialism deal with such EVIDENCE:
“According to the French philosopher Jean Baudrillard, there is no such thing as reality – only a system of arbitrary signs, imagistic discourses and `multiple refractions in hyperspace’. Hence the title of his most notorious book, ‘The Gulf War Did Not Take Place’.
“Even Baudrillard, however, might raise an eyebrow at a headline in the current issue of the ‘Spectator’:
“`The Massacres That Never Were. Contrary to propaganda, mass graves in Kosovo are a myth, says John Laughland.’
“Since Laughland is a former lecturer at the Sorbonne, you might assume that this is just another exercise in `playful post-modernism’ or some such twaddle.
“But he is entirely serious.
“Laughland says that NATO maintained public support for its Balkan intervention by pretending that Serbian security forces and paramilitaries had massacred many thousands of Kosovans.
“‘Of the impact such stories had, there can certainly be no doubt whatever; their veracity, however, is a different matter.’
“The true death toll, he reckons, is probably no more than a few hundred.
“This revisionist account is also having quite an impact: its allegations have been repeated in a full-page article in the Sunday Times, and are being assiduously peddled by Stratfor, an online think-tank based in Texas [which has never showed any understanding of such matters].
“Their veracity, however, is quite another matter.
“Let’s begin with NATO’s alleged hyperbole.
“‘On May 16, the US defence secretary, William Cohen, said that Yugoslav army forces had killed up to 100,000 Albanian men of military age,’
“Laughland writes.
“‘Tony Blair himself implied that the numbers might be even higher when he wrote in the Times on June 5,
“‘We must be ready for what we know will be clear evidence of… as yet unknown numbers of people missing, tortured and dead.’
“What William Cohen ACTUALLY said, on the American TV programme ‘Face the Nation’, was that 100,000 men of military age ‘are missing’.
As for the death toll, he continued:
“‘We have had reports that as many as 4,600 have been executed, but I suspect it’s far higher than that.’
“NOT QUITE the same as asserting that all 100,000 of them had been killed.
“NOR did Tony Blair imply a total ‘even higher’ than 100,000 in his article of June 5.
He gave NO FIGURES AT ALL, predicting only that journalists and peacekeepers entering Kosovo would find ‘evidence of appalling atrocities and unbelievable cruelties’.
“And so they did. By June 16, the Foreign Office minister Geoff Hoon felt able to give a rough estimate.
“‘According to the reports we have gathered, it appears that around 10,000 people have been killed in more than 100 massacres.’
“Laughland dismisses this as `fantasy’ –and quotes a most surprising source to prove it.
Paul Risley, the spokesman for the international war-crimes prosecutor, apparently told him that
“‘a whole string of sites where atrocities were allegedly committed have revealed no bodies at all’,
“adding that there were `not very many’ mass graves.
“‘THE GUY’S A COMPLETE ASSHOLE,’ Risley told me this week, when I reached him by phone in Sarajevo.
“‘I SAID NOTHING OF THE SORT. We have over 500 “scenes of crime”, and many of them are mass graves.’
[529 mass graves had been found when exhumation stopped in November 1999, after more than 2,000 bodies had been retrieved]
“Of these 500 sites, only 150 have been investigated so far; the rest will not be dug up until next spring. (As Risley points out, you can’t do exhumations when the ground is frozen.)
“‘So,’ Laughland demands impatiently, ‘what is the final body count?’
“The question is absurd. After the Paddington rail crash, we had to wait for many days before the police issued a definitive list of victims. If it took so long to identify odd fragments of bone in one railway carriage, imagine the difficulty of searching an entire country – especially one where the retreating Serb forces did their best to destroy or hide the evidence of their crimes.
[a little less than 2,000 have been found in Serbia proper, where they had been brought to suppress the evidence
http://www.freeserbia.net/Articles/2002/Atrocity.html
"Nevertheless, the tribunal's prosecutor, Carla Del Ponte, will present an interim report to the United Nations in the next two or three weeks.
"Laughland notes that a group of Spanish inspectors 'only found 187 cadavers' in Kosovo this summer, as if this proves his hunch that `the number of bodies discovered to date is in the hundreds'.
"But the Spaniards comprised only one of 20 forensic teams.
[and they were assigned to the Llap region close to the border of Serbia, where it was easy to bring them]
A squad of experts from the FBI, who arrived in the town of Gjakova at the end of June, retrieved 200 corpses within five days.
“If these results are at all typical, the number of bodies already identified must be at least 3,000.
“And, I repeat, the tribunal’s gumshoes have visited only 150 of the 500 `scenes of crime’. All this suggests that Hoon’s figure of 10,000 was remarkably accurate.
[It was indeed: the Catholic episcopate in Prizren says 12,500 Kosovars were killed during that war, that is, from the first massacres in late February 1998 to the Kumanovo agreement of June 1999.]
“We shall never know the exact total, of course – just as we still don’t have a final tally of those massacred at Srebrenica, more than four years ago.
[The current estimate about the Srebrenica genocide is of more than 8,000 killed]
“`We do not anticipate recovering every body,’
“Risley says.
“`There’s compelling evidence of tampering with evidence, and attempts to destroy the bodies of victims.’
“Even so, we get the picture; and those who seek to deny the scale and brutality of `ethnic cleansing’ should watch John Sweeney’s film ‘Prime Suspects’, to be shown on Channel 4 tomorrow at 9.30 p.m., which describes how more than 100 people were lined up and shot dead in a hay barn in just one small Kosovo village.
None of the bodies has been recovered: the killers blew up the barn, leaving nothing but two huge holes in the earth. Laughland and his fellow revisionists could therefore argue that the deaths were yet another `fantasy’, a Baudrillard-style refraction in hyperspace.
No doubt Rasim Batusha, who lost 22 members of his family in the massacre, will find this a great consolation.”
Francis Wheen, “Death and Denial in Kosova”, The Guardian, 3 November 1999
docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc2m8p62_195f8mhbsgc
For those who do not think that flawed a priori political reasoning is a substitute for knowledge of the facts, and happen to care about what happened in Srebrenica in 1995, here are some adequate sources:
srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com/
http://www.glypx.com/BalkanWitness/Srebrenica-debate.htm
A pervasive anti-Serb bias guarantees that the trial of Radovan Karadzic will be at least as unjust as was the sham trial of Slobodan Milosevic. For centuries, the strategic Balkan Peninsula has featured as a slice of Europe over which wars have been fought, treaties made and broken. It became a vital pawn in the carve-up of nations after World War i, had the boundaries of its ethnic enclaves confused under Tito’s regime, then its various nationalist feelings taken advantage of and played against each other in the latest push for its colonization by the EU.
Now, as a post-Milosevic charade is about to be resumed at The Hague with the arraignment of Radovan Karadzic, one thing is for certain. The foremost casualty will be the truth, the most condemned will become the Serb per se. The strange truth is that … great powers pay a fee for entering the Balkan casino. They consent to someone’s story, not ‘the truth’
NATO and the Western mass media told the public that the Bosnian Serbs had a racist and genocidal ideology, and committed atrocities.
Did they?
But it was Alija Izetbegovic, the leader of a minority Bosnian Muslim faction, the one that NATO supported, who wrote a book calling for the slaughter of infidels so that a Muslim takeover could install an Islamist theocracy in Bosnia.What is well documented, however, is that in the 1990s Alija Izetbegovic proudly recreated the SS Handzar Division that the Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin al Husseini had earlier created, for the German Nazis, out of tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslim volunteers (documented in Part 2). This SS Handzar Division eagerly participated in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Serbian, Jewish, and Roma (Gypsy) civilians. It is not unreasonable to propose that if Alija Izetbegovic was proud enough of the WWII SS Handzar Division to recreate it in the 1990s, then perhaps he was a Handzar soldier during the World War.
That’s way I say,once you get to know Izetbegovic, you are forced to ask this question: Isn’t it more likely that the one killing innocent people in the 1990s was Izetbegovic, and not the Serbs? Yes. Consistent with this expectation, every allegation against the Serbs evaporates into nothing the minute one investigates. The overwhelming, crushing bulk of the evidence supports the view that in the Yugoslavian civil wars of the 1990s the Serbs behaved much like did in WWII, when they were the staunchest defenders of the persecuted Jews in all of Europe. The portrait that was painted of the Serbs in the 1990s as “the new Nazis” is not only false, it is absurd. For this reason, the lies we were told about the Bosnian Serbs (repeated to this day) have required spectacular hoaxes, knowingly perpetrated by the Western mass media. These are easily shown to be false with a minimum of research, as for example the accusation that the Bosnian Serbs were running death camps
The trans-Balkan mafia is to be found in Kosovo and Metohija, i so-called Kosovo Parliament. Haradinaj, Cheku, Thaci et al. are first to be delivered to justice.
Tadic and his corrupt coalition partners will not get anything from the West for their miserable behaviour against the Serbian people.
As for Serbian people – they’ll get more conditions to be fulfilled and never-ending demands from the West.
Jonathan go back to Ireland, your analysis from Belgrade is garbage.
Or, better yet write about Naser Oric and Islamic mafia in Bosnia and American/NATO direct involvement in the ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Croatia, Boanis, Kosovo-Metohija…
Irrefutable Proof ICTY Is Corrupt Court/Irrefutable Proof the Hague Court Cannot Legitimately Prosecute Karadzic Case
http://picasaweb.google.com/lpcyusa/
(The Documentary Secret United Nations ICC Meeting Papers Scanned Images)
This legal technicality indicates the Hague must dismiss charges against Dr Karadzic and others awaiting trials in the Hague jail; like it or not.
Unfortunately for the Signatures Of the Rome Statute United Nations member states instituting the ICC & ICTY housed at the Hague, insofar as the, Radovan Karadzic, as with the other Hague cases awaiting trial there, I personally witnessed these United Nations member states openly speaking about trading judicial appointments and verdicts for financial funding when I attended the 2001 ICC Preparatory Meetings at the UN in Manhattan making the iCTY and ICC morally incapable trying Radovan Karazdic and others.
I witnessed with my own eyes and ears when attending the 2001 Preparatory Meetings to establish an newly emergent International Criminal Court, the exact caliber of criminal corruption running so very deeply at the Hague, that it was a perfectly viable topic of legitimate conversation in those meetings I attended to debate trading verdicts AND judicial appointments, for monetary funding.
Jilly wrote:*The rep from Spain became distraught and when her country’s proposal was not taken to well by the chair of the meeting , then Spain argued in a particularly loud and noticably strongly vocal manner, “Spain (my country) strongly believes if we contribute most financial support to the Hague’s highest court, that ought to give us and other countries feeding it financially MORE direct power over its decisions.”
((((((((((((((((((((((((( ((((((((((((((((((((((((( Instead of censoring the country representative from Spain for even bringing up this unjust, illegal and unfair judicial idea of bribery for international judicial verdicts and judicial appointments, all country representatives present in the meeting that day all treated the Spain proposition as a ”totally legitimate topic” discussed and debated it between each other for some time. I was quite shocked!
The idea was “let’s discuss it.” “It’s a great topic to discuss.”
Some countries agreed with Spain’s propositions while others did not. The point here is, bribery for judicial verdicts and judicial appointments was treated as a totally legitimate topic instead of an illegitimate toic which it is in the meeting that I attended in 2001 that day to establish the ground work for a newly emergent international criminal court.))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
In particular., since “Spain” was so overtly unafraid in bringing up this topic of trading financial funding the ICC for influence over its future judicial appointments and verdicts in front of every other UN member state present that day at the UN, “Spain” must have already known by previous experience the topic of bribery was “socially acceptable” for conversation that day. They must have previously spoke about bribing the ICTY and
ICC before in meetings; this is my take an international sociological honor student. SPAIN’s diplomatic gesture of international justice insofar as, Serbia, in all of this is, disgusting morally!
SPAIN HAS TAUGHT THE WORLD THE TRUE DEFINITION OF AN
“INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT.”
I remind everyone, when I attended those ICC Preparatory Meetings in 2001, witnessing first hand the country plenipotentiary representatives present with me discussing so openly, trading judicial funding of a new international criminal court, for its direct judicial appointments and judicial verdicts, those same state powers were
concurrently,
those same countries and people were already simultaneously, funding the already established ICTY which was issuing at that time, arrest warrants for Bosnian Serbs under false primary diplomatic pretenses.
The ICTY and ICC is just where it should be for once. Cornered and backed into and an international wall, scared like a corned animal (and I bet it reacts in the same way a rabid cornered animal does too in such circumstances). (ICTY associates)
http://picasaweb.google.com/lpcyusa
(Documents: Hague war crimes tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) has destroyed all material evidence about the monsterous KLA Albanian/KLA organ trade in Kosovo).
I believe strongly that ICYU assocaites murdered former Serb President, Slobodan Milosevic, tried to murder me, as well and other Serbs prisoners and presently places , Doctor Radovan Karadzic’s life in direct danger as well as Ratko Mladic’s life
in danger should he be brought there.
The ICTY has no other choice than to halt all further court proceedings against, Doctor Radovan Karadzic, and others there both serving sentences and awaiting trials. Miss JIll Louise Starr (The UN Security Council has no choice but to act on this now).
I accuse the Hague ICTY war crimes tribunal of attempted assassination on my life and others, contempt of court and obstruction of international justice and “international witness tampering” in complicity with Richard Holbrook and Bill Clinton (Former US President of the USA) as well as political players in Spain and the Netherlands .
I represented the state interests’ of the Former Yugoslavia, in Darko Trifunovic’s absence in those meetings and I am proud to undertake this effort on Serbia’s behalf.
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