Seasons in Hell: The Brutality of America’s Modern Day Slave Trade
Nineteen-year-old Carina Saunders of Mustang, Oklahoma, was reported missing on September 28 of 2011 though investigators found reports of people seeing her alive and well in early October. On October 13, animal welfare workers looking for feral cats found the decapitated and mutilated body of Carina in a duffel bag behind a grocery store. It is believed the corpse was there several days before the gruesome discovery. Police had to initially look at her tattoos to determine an identity.
Authorities at first focused on a young “Juggalo” named Cody Perez, a violent ex-con who had recently pawned his set of chef’s knives and fled the area. After all, a brutal killing by a fan of the band Insane Clown Posse would just be another crime in a long list of sensational stories involving the group. But police cleared Perez after a nine week investigation with dozens of witnesses uncovered a crime that seemed to come straight out of a horror movie by a group of criminals most Americans thought were long extinct — slavers. We use the term “human traffickers” now, which sounds much more modern and urbane — as if the victims are willing cargo on some underground railroad. But the reality is that America’s modern day slave trade is as barbaric and brutal as slavery was before emancipation.
During the investigation into Carina’s death, a 20-year-old woman — who by some accounts may be a prostitute or a madam — came forward to tell a tale so horrific that most would discount it as fantasy if not for the confessions that followed. She related how a drug dealer named Jimmy Lee Massey with ties to a gang that sold both drugs and slaves kidnapped her from a residence and took her to an abandoned building. There he restrained her while a still undisclosed number of people, including a man named Francisco Gomez, tortured and murdered Carina Saunders. The witness, who police are not naming because of what they perceive as very real threats to her life, reported that Massey forced her to watch the entire murder as a message to her and other women of what would happen to those who didn’t cooperate with the gang.
A press conference held by Police Chief Phil Cole revealed even more disturbing details. The criminal organization Massey and Gomez were involved with has several Mexican nationals as members, indicating a transnational connection. The investigation led to multiple arrests for various crimes, but police have yet to apprehend everyone they know is involved in the gang. But most disturbing of all was the fact that Carina was simply a victim of opportunity.
The witness didn’t know Carina, although both women knew Massey causally. Carina was known to be a drug user – including hard drugs like meth and coke — but police say she wasn’t otherwise involved in any criminal activity. Since Massey was a dealer, it’s likely he kidnapped her while she was buying; she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It is a story as horrific as it is common. These gangs lurk in the shadows of our cities, using the drug trade to help run the more lucrative and dangerous sex slave rings that are ubiquitous in any major metro area. Often the dealers recruit victims after hooking them on hard drugs, but it is far more common that known drug routes are used to transport illegal aliens into the country. Those illegals are billed exorbitant amounts for the trip which they can never hope to pay off and are given the option of “working” off their debts. For women and children, this means forced prostitution; for men, it is sometimes literal slave labor.
In Oklahoma, there are whispers that this gang is responsible for more than just Carina Saunders’ death. Nineteen-year-old Kelsey Bransby was found murdered on October 27. She had attended the same high school as Carina and had similar drug problems, but friends say she had gotten clean and was trying to leave that life behind. After that decision she was shot in the face in her own apartment.
Seventeen-year-old Alina Fitzpatrick’s nude body was found dumped on a rural Oklahoma City property. Alina had been home schooled because of bullying, and had complained prior to her disappearance that a “suspicious” man had been following her and had somehow gotten her cell phone number. The last person to see her alive was a friend who had given her a ride to an apartment that Alina was vague about who lived there. Pretty and blonde, Alina looked much younger than she was and some speculate she was targeted by traffickers.
Oklahoma, however, is not the only place where modern day slavers kidnap and pimp out women and children.
Forty-one-year-old Maurice Lerome Smith was just sentenced to 30 years in federal prison for pimping out a 17-year-old girl on Craigslist in the San Diego area. Smith promised the girl a job at a window washing company but then forced her into prostitution and set her nightly quota at $1,200. He had previously spent time in prison for trying to kidnap and prostitute a 13-year-old girl.
Twenty-four-year-old Walter Woods forced a mentally disabled 18-year-old into prostitution in Kent, Washington. He had a previous record of “luring children” and according to his victim, Woods had several girls that worked for him but they were now “with another pimp,” meaning he sold them.
A woman named Satoria Youngblood was found in Flint, Michigan, pimping out teens and in possession of child pornography. She had been busted in Utah for the same charges just months before being caught in Michigan. She and her associates are believed to travel the country exploiting children for sex, using drugs and violence as leverage.
At Occupy New Hampshire, a woman named Justina Jensen picked up a 16-year-old runaway and began selling the girl online. When she was arrested it was announced that Jensen had faced similar charges in her native New York.
In St. Louis, sex slavers used an Obama-themed social club as cover for a drugs and prostitution ring that included at least one 15-year-old girl.
One thing that’s missed in many of these lurid stories is that prior to being caught, many of these modern day slave traders have forced women and children to have sex with dozens, sometimes hundreds, of men. Men who know these women aren’t willing, men who know these children are being robbed of their innocence. But they purchase them, and rape them, and move on without a care in the world.
That cold indifference to the plight of these women and children — these modern day slaves — is what makes this exploitation possible. It is not just the depravity of Jimmy Massey, Francisco Gomez, and their gang that murdered Carina Saunders; the apathy of the American public was an accessory in this crime. Heedless of the brutality in our midst, we float aimlessly through our vices, gulping down the “terrific mouthfuls of poison” Rimbaud wrote of in Night in Hell. We condemn thousands to season after season in Hell lest we confront our own demons and be forced to answer for our sins.
This underscores the importance of ending the drug war!
Exactly. Defund them.
Legalizing drugs would solve nothing.
We need to vote out Democrats at all levels. We need to build more prisons, not only to house more prisoners, but to make sure that the punishment for a crime in America is not to be tortured and raped by fellow prisoners. Democrats think prison funding is for them to buy votes from the guards’ unions.
We need to vote out Democrats at all levels. Look again at what the author says of Maurice Lerome Smith and Walter Woods at the top of part three here. These two had both served time for similar horrid crimes against children, and yet they were turned loose to do it again. The judges and the penal system failed us, because Democrats believe punishment is wrong, counterproductive, barbaric, or what have you.
We need to vote out Democrats at all levels. We need to close that border.
Ever known a drug addict? Someone with no teeth.
Its sorta kinda a bad thing. a one way trip. it should not be remotely legal to sell meth to kids no more than it would be legal to shoot them in the head.
It will not defund them. They’ll make plenty off of human trafficking and kiddie porn (another billion-dollar industry that’s connected). Plus, they will make plenty selling drugs legally; by becoming “legit” it won’t stop their proclivity for human trafficking. They enjoy enslaving people just as much as the Johns like having sex with captives. It turns them on. They are enemies of humanity and need to be eliminated.
How ’bout WINNING the drug war instead? Fight it like a goddamned war. Execute cops and government officials who are playing both sides of the fence, because they are traitors. Napalm the fields in Colombia.
Legalizing meth and heroin and even coke is utter insanity – literally. These are drugs that make people insane, destroy their judgement, and make them capable of doing anything.
RKae, that view just doesn’t square up with a knowledge of economics or of the data on decriminalization. Drug gangs dissipate when drugs are decriminalized – their asset is their force. They simply can’t compete on the private market, and real businessmen quickly drive most of the old growers and sellers out of the running. Once the drugs are removed from the dangerous, criminal element, what one sees is that those who are unfortunate enough to get into drugs aren’t getting involved in things like human trafficking, or especially related crimes such as theft/burglary and prostitution (and all the dangers that goes with that).
When it comes down to it, there’s simply no metric on which we lose by decriminalizing all drugs. Fewer people do drugs. More drug users get help. Fewer users are introduced to criminal elements. Fewer kids even start doing drugs. There are fewer deaths from overdose. Our prisons are not full of people who made bad personal decisions that landed them 5-15 years on the taxpayer dime. When it comes down to it, drug prohibition is a terrible idea for all the same reasons that alcohol prohibition didn’t work. Let’s come together and realize that it is not our intentions that should determine our policy, but their results. The results of an end to prohibition, however counter-intuitive this might be, would be good.
The Mafia didn’t dissipate after prohibition ended. In fact it was Rudy who finally broke the in NYC several decades after the end of prohibition. You’re right about the average dealer, but you don’t understand how gangs work.
Plus, everyone here is talking about drugs – are we going to legalize human trafficking too? We’re talking about slave trading and everyone here wants to argue about their need for a fix?
No, the crime of Prohibition built a good strong foundation for them, and they thrived on other rackets once alcohol was taken from them.
It was good thing nonetheless for that lifeline to be taken from them, and it would be a good thing for drug distribution to be taken from such sorts now.
“broke the in NYC” /= “broke the Mob in NYC”
BTW, they ain’t broken.
“Plus, everyone here is talking about drugs – are we going to legalize human trafficking too?”
Why would you imagine one undertaking has anything to do with the other? One respects just human liberty–legalizing drugs; and the other would degrade it.
“We’re talking about slave trading and everyone here wants to argue about their need for a fix?”
You made a point of saying how large the drug trade features in the slavers’ lives. I am making the point their lives become even that little bit much harder if they don’t have that economic crutch.
Are you opposing or complaining about an otherwise wise and just change in policy that disadvantages the slavers?
No examples come to mind, Mr. Taylor, where you made sense more than two consecutive sentences in row.
The drug trade is just one facet of a gang’s business. The Crips and Bloods formed decades before they became drug gangs, as did the Hell’s Angels and even the Mafia. Legalizing drugs (including the meth and heroin I assume) wouldn’t hurt them at all. They’d make legal farmers pay “taxes” to them, and use the hard drugs they legally sell as one more avenue to enslave women.
I have said before I’m not against decriminalization (I am against legalization, there’s a difference)I’m against dishonesty. drugs legal status has nothing to do with society allowing gangs to traffic humans. Though if drugs were legal it’d be easier to distract everyone from this atrocity.
“The drug trade is just one facet of a gang’s business. The Crips and Bloods formed decades before they became drug gangs, as did the Hell’s Angels and even the Mafia.”
Sure, when did they get big?
“Legalizing drugs (including the meth and heroin I assume) wouldn’t hurt them at all. They’d make legal farmers pay “taxes” to them, and use the hard drugs they legally sell as one more avenue to enslave women.”
Funny, I don’t buy booze from the mob, they’re not even selling it, and I don’t think they shake down any of the local brew pubs or distilleries either. You’re full of it, Rob.
“I have said before I’m not against decriminalization”
Sounds like you are, when you object to it’s being mentioned.
“(I am against legalization, there’s a difference)”
No there, isn’t.
“I’m against dishonesty.”
As I’ve said before, ROTFLMAO.
“drugs legal status has nothing to do with society allowing gangs to traffic humans.”
It does if the drugs are a funding source we don’t need to tolerate being be provided to them.
“Though if drugs were legal it’d be easier to distract everyone from this atrocity.”
If drugs were legal, there would be one fewer distraction from this atrocity which that distraction–drug prohibition–now helps to fund.
The mob, otherwise known as the mafia, is not a home-grown American phenomenon. It was imported from Sicily during a period of out-of-control immigration, when Italian immigrants settled in ethnic enclaves. Therefore its existance was not due to prohibition, although they greatly profited from it. But the organization was already there, prepared to take advantage of whatever opportunity they encountered in the ethnic neighborhoods of our great cities. The mafia provides us with a good arguement for a controlled and orderly immigration policy. Another good arguement for the same can be found in the movie “The Gangs of New York”, which could have been subtitled “The Birth of the Modern Democratic Party”. MS-13 anyone?
“It will not defund them.”
Yeah, the Mob makes all it’s money off of alcohol distribution, not like the 30′s at all. How are you even able to coordinate breathing without mechanical assistance?
“They’ll make plenty off of human trafficking and kiddie porn (another billion-dollar industry that’s connected).”
Which won’t make any more money after it is disconnected, will it? And the actual as opposed to pretend crimes will stay crimes, won’t they?
“Plus, they will make plenty selling drugs legally; by becoming “legit” it won’t stop their proclivity for human trafficking.”
I don’t think purveyors of legal drugs will be any more likely to do slavery or child porn than are people who operate liquor stores or bars.
“They enjoy enslaving people just as much as the Johns like having sex with captives. It turns them on. They are enemies of humanity and need to be eliminated.”
That’s I expect it will and believe it should be illegal.
“How ’bout WINNING the drug war instead? Fight it like a goddamned war. Execute cops and government officials who are playing both sides of the fence, because they are traitors. Napalm the fields in Colombia.”
What can’t be done justly should not be attempted.
“Legalizing meth and heroin and even coke is utter insanity – literally. These are drugs that make people insane, destroy their judgement, and make them capable of doing anything.”
Except the fraction of the population abusing drugs hasn’t budged, it has been a constant in American society since long before there was a DEA. The “war on drugs” as doing no good and costing a great deal.
In my opinion, you are stuck on stupid.
And evil.
“That’s I expect it will and believe it should be illegal.”
/=
“That’s why I expect it will remain and believe it should be illegal.”
So Tom Perkins, you believe that the level of drug use will stay constant (both in terms of number of users and types and amounts of drug abused) after legalization? Do you have any studies/other country experiences to show this is true? Are there any countries that have adopted such liberal legalization laws? If so what is their experience? What has the Dutch experience been? Are they moving towards more legalization or less? Whichever they are doing, why?
I can think of two such countries: the United States of America and Great Britain –in the nineteenth century. (Modern-day Holland is not a good example, because drugs are merely tolerated but not legal.) When did narcotics become a serious problem for Britain and America? Yes, late in the twentieth century, long after both those countries passed laws against drugs. In both of those countries it wasn’t ’til about the 1890s that they started passing laws (firstly, against opium and cocaine) prohibiting drugs.
Alcohol was considered a far greater scourge; and this was especially true in the late 18th and early 19th centuries. Britain never adopted prohibition to combat alcoholism; to combat it they relied mainly on social ostracism and other privately-organized efforts aimed at moral betterment of the “lower social orders”. And they were largely successful in getting a handle on the alcohol problem until a few decades ago.
Cultural degeneracy (as well as a sense of helplessness and alienation) is what causes drug and alcohol abuse. Government prohibition will do nothing except drive it into the hands of ruthless criminals, which makes the whole situation worse.
“White slavery” (that’s what they used to call it) has long been a problem. It’s a worse problem wherever prostitution is prohibited, because all that does is drive that business into the hands of ruthless criminals as well.
Absolutely.The drug war has to end soon.Otherwise mark my words.Americans will lose everything.Prosperity,safety and above all freedom.
Amazing. This has more to do with coddling illegals than with drugs, yet you count your access to poisons more important than the horrors inflicted on these people.
“Carina Saunders, 19, was known to have run with a rough crowd who used drugs but the choice to kill her was ‘random’, said police.”
“Miss Saunders, who graduated from Mustang High School last year, was known to use methamphetamine, marijuana and Ecstasy.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2077059/Jimmy-Lee-Massey-forced-woman-watch-torture-dismember-Carina-Saunders.html
Poster child as why not to use Meth and/or hang out with drug dealers.
“It is not just the depravity of Jimmy Massey, Francisco Gomez, and their gang that murdered Carina Saunders; the apathy of the American public was an accessory in this crime. Heedless of the brutality in our midst, we float aimlessly through our vices, gulping down the “terrific mouthfuls of poison” Rimbaud wrote of in Night in Hell. We condemn thousands to season after season in Hell lest we confront our own demons and be forced to answer for our sins.”
Got any specifics to go with that meaningless rant?
At the risk of seeming over simplistic, I believe the author is referring to the clients of prostitutes. No clients, no money, no prostitutes.
No, the man just said, “the American public”. It was an indefensible statement.
I think he’ll either tie himself in knots trying to, or won’t begin to–preferring to pat himself on the back for his self-apprised rectitude.
As several comments here show, the general public indeed couldn’t care less about what happens to these girls.
“They’re prostitutes, they had it coming”, “that’s what happens when you do drugs”, etc. etc.
All boils down to “if they were normal, law abiding, people living normal, standard, lives, they’d never have got into trouble.
When the American Public demands an end to this stuff it will happen. Right now a lot of it isn’t even covered. Articles like this one by Rob Taylor serve a good purpose as I see it.
I think instead the newscritters live by the notion that what bleeds leads.
Re Tom Perkins: “Any specifics?” –
Yeah Perkins, when signing, use instead of “Perkins”… John!
Except my name is Perkins, and unlike Taylor, I haven’t lied on this forum.
I just showed up here this afternoon. I rolled out of bed around ‘noon. Where did I “lie” about anything here?
I refer to your previous insistence you had reasonable (there’s that word again, some myth) grounds for accusing me of participating in and otherwise supporting child pornography, and of in another column accusing me of not believing in moral absolutes, but in moral relativism instead. Your equally public retraction would, at this point grudgingly, be welcome.
But I don’t think you’re that careful with the actual truth, I think you are pleased to serve what you imagine to be a greater, higher “truth”–and no misrepresentation which serves that truth is unwelcome to your eyes. I’ve seen no evidence else.
At best, as far as I can tell, you’ve been made a grotesques monster by your life’s endeavors.
So … I’m the monster but the people who killed Carina Saunders are reasonable people who would go legit if only drugs were legal. And you’re offended to have people point out that you are a moral relativist.
I notice that you have no strong words for Massey. But since he hasn’t been made a monster by his life’s pursuit of kidnapping women to force them to watch a teen get tortured to death there’s really no need.
You are a monster here, lashing out wildly at anyone who doesn’t agree with your every turn of phrase. You damage your cause.
And it’s a good cause.
There are lots of those.
“I notice that you have no strong words for Massey. But since he hasn’t been made a monster by his life’s pursuit of kidnapping women to force them to watch a teen get tortured to death there’s really no need.”
What’s to note? He may well get a needle, and should if he does. What goes without saying doesn’t with you, because you need to be leading a choir.
It’s your thing.
I find your thing reprehensible. In this very thread, it is distracting you from advocating what would actually improve what you claim you want to help most of all.
I’m lashing out wildly? Really? I think you’re projecting a bit on that one Tom.
“That cold indifference to the plight of these women and children — these modern day slaves — is what makes this exploitation possible. It is not just the depravity of Jimmy Massey, Francisco Gomez, and their gang that murdered Carina Saunders; the apathy of the American public was an accessory in this crime.”
Your own words.
You’d have a point if the apathy of the American public had even slightly to do with it.
As it is, you are lashing out wildly, even incoherently.
“Got any specifics to go with that meaningless rant?”
I’ll take a stab at it.
The mainstreaming of porn. Its utterly commonplace today to “see” thousands of sex acts with gorgeous young women most ugly guys wouldnt be able to speak to under normal circumstances.
It ups the ante, the drive and the “expectations” of what one should be able to “enjoy” as a normal activity, just like any advertising campaign can, will, and does for a large segment of the population.
Except in this case, “the product” isnt something you can BUY at the store, though the “advertising” wheting the appetite for such is absolutely everywhere. And “the product” is incresingly fetish…rough, bondage, “abduction”, gagging, slapping, humiliation, “public”, group and YOUNG. Surf the web and see. Its not just sex and pretty ladies. Getting into darker territory with “barley legal” is the norm.
And, lets be serious, most guys cant get that kind of action on their own. Nor can they afford the kind of top shelf, fly-in, traveling fetish “escorts” to meet these porn-induced Alpha Sexual desires. So they’ll “settle” for what they can afford, and its more available now than ever…. in the form of young, kidnapped, and enslaved…The perfect (low cost) abuse-a-dish-rag fun thats now marketed as the normal sex a man should enjoy.
The “rant” you mention was about looking in the mirror. Re-evaluation whats been considered “OK” and “harmless” in America for some time…like the 40 year “straight” advertising crusade to sexualize our children (see any magazine 1980-present, or any school sex-ed curriculum for that matter), coupled with the mainstream of hard-core porn, and the unintended consequences they bring.
Yes of course, this is a generalization,
but I think thats where the author was going.
One last thing to add…With “the church” forever being so condemned as “sexually repressive”, lets keep in mind their concept of proper sexual relations places a heavy burden for respect of THE PERSON and of THE CONSEQUENCES of sexual activity, such as the next human life that will evolve from it.
Yes, its a bit of a damp towel…no plaid skirt teen lesbians in suspension gear to squeeze yourself into the middle of and force worship of your seed…But then again, no abductions and child rape either. (minus of course, the human failings of individuals IN the church who do not FOLLOW the church)
What a fool, you.
When was the Mann act passed, and what was it about? And in just such an age as you claim was better.
What complain of neither justifies nor makes crime more likely. It is beside the point, without relevance.
“What complain” /= “What you complain”
You have quite a few typos; is it that your hands are shaking? I remember when I used to be addicted to nicotine; my hands would shake pretty hard and I couldn’t concentrate sometimes merely because I was getting LOW on cigarettes, and I didn’t know if I had enough to last until the next time I was allowed to sell plasma. So I sympathize completely.
So, if drug were decriminalized or legalized, abuse of drugs would go DOWN, is what Tom and some addicts claim; the deplorable situations that occur daily on both sides of the border would decrease if only drugs were legalized.
BUT: I haven’t seen anything other than vigorous assertions. On the other side of the argument, abortions have gone up since abortions became legal, out-of-wedlock births have gone up since contraceptives became legal, gambling problems have increased since gambling has become legal, porn consumption and associated criminal behavior have increased since adult porn has become legal; HOWEVER, alcohol abuse decreased during Prohibition. I haven’t seen anything special about drug use to support Tom’s et al claims that the social problems and rate of addiction would decrease if drugs were made legal. The only crimes that would decrease would be the ones that were specifically made legal-duh!
I’m looking at these different situations statistically, without making suggestions on proposed laws. The legalized behavior in each case has had a strong effect on the negative outcome that follows in each situation above, even though in several cases, proponents of legalization originally claimed it would go down. (In fact, there are STILL a few dinosaurs that trot out the “more contraception would mean fewer out-of-wedlock births” nonsense lol. OTOH, the “safe, legal, and rare” crapola has died down a little since the Hodari/Gosnell stuff has started coming out, I’ve noticed)
No nicotine. I just appreciate sites with an edit feature.
Okay; I was guessing a different substance (and I bet I’m not the only one) but I’ll concede that point.
But not the rest of the post of course; there is nothing in our recent history or in common understanding of human nature, that would indicate that legalizing drugs will make it “safe and rare”, or reduce the violence associated with it.
And the more I read of your comments, the more I think you’re a monster. I don’t know anything about you other than today’s posts, but your indifference toward Carina (“bad luck”!!??) and other victims, so you can indulge in whatever nasty stuff you use, probably isn’t having the effect on this article’s readers that you’re aiming for.
“Okay; I was guessing a different substance (and I bet I’m not the only one) but I’ll concede that point.”
Not too many people would make the assumption that swiftly posted thread replies with typos = stimulant addiction, but you may well be that sort.
“But not the rest of the post of course; there is nothing in our recent history or in common understanding of human nature, that would indicate that legalizing drugs will make it “safe and rare”, or reduce the violence associated with it.”
Nothing except the whole of human history, and the Prohibition experiment.
“And the more I read of your comments, the more I think you’re a monster.”
Yeah, I’m such a monster, I want things to actually get better.
“I don’t know anything about you other than today’s posts, but your indifference toward Carina (“bad luck”!!??) and other victims, so you can indulge in whatever nasty stuff you use, probably isn’t having the effect on this article’s readers that you’re aiming for.”
Good to know you think I’m a drug abuser on no rational basis. Makes it clear what your judgement is worth.
And yes. Bad luck. If I thought it was good luck, then you’d have a point.
“’But not the rest of the post of course; there is nothing in our recent history or in common understanding of human nature, that would indicate that legalizing drugs will make it “safe and rare”, or reduce the violence associated with it.’
Nothing except the whole of human history, and the Prohibition experiment.”
(Oh dear, he responded with another assertion! and all I have are counterexamples. Now I’m the one who’s trembling lol.)
Oh? Where are these counter examples?
Rates of addiction haven’t gone down, the cost of drugs has decreased.
The cost of enforcement goes the way of most gov programs.
The cartels have had the money to do R&D and now bring in the coke by submarine…
So then, your point seems to be that the coarsening of morals would actually, then, ELEVATE the treatment of our fellow man.
That debasement, when MORE commonplace, leads to milder behavior overall?
Interesting theory.
A flooded basement is not wet.
An orchard has no trees.
Note also I need not call YOU a fool, when I can simply disagree with your notions, based on my (admittedly) personal opinions.
Sure. I’ll give you an example. You read about this, you started complaining about drug legalization. You care more about getting people buying weed than women and children being sold by gangs who would continue that activity if drugs were legal or not. After almost ten years of political blogging, 4 or 5 of crime blogging and 40 years on this planet I truly believe that attitude is one shared by the majority of liberals, more than half of Libertarians and an unfortunate number of people who consider themselves conservatives.
Have you helped runaways before their caught up? Do you work with any groups or charities that help keep people off the streets? Have you mentored children, joined a community watch, tipped the FBI when you see something sketchy on the web? I have done and do those things and I assure you I am in the minority.
“Sure. I’ll give you an example. You read about this, you started complaining about drug legalization.”
You brought up illegal drug use and how it props the slavers up and develops victims for them. Legalizing drugs is an obvious way to prevent that. You are for preventing that, right?
“You care more about getting people buying weed than women and children being sold by gangs who would continue that activity if drugs were legal or not.”
I don’t give a damn if anyone does buy drugs or not, as long as they use them responsibly, and I know it far more likely not to trouble me and others if it is legal than if it is not.
“After almost ten years of political blogging, 4 or 5 of crime blogging and 40 years on this planet I truly believe that attitude is one shared by the majority of liberals, more than half of Libertarians and an unfortunate number of people who consider themselves conservatives.”
We care about government having just goals and means. I should suppose from your comment that you don’t. Point taken.
“Have you helped runaways before their caught up?”
Nope, don’t know any.
“Do you work with any groups or charities that help keep people off the streets?”
I habe given to such from time to time, and as long as I know you aren’t involved with them, will again.
“Have you mentored children,”
Yes.
“Joined a community watch,”
Ain’t none here. Nor is their enough crime to warrant such a superfluity.
“tipped the FBI when you see something sketchy on the web?”
Haven’t seen it yet, but I’ve called the sheriff’s when something didn’t look right.
“I have done and do those things and I assure you I am in the minority.”
Congratulations, you aren’t a lost cause.
I’ll try it again. This article is about people being held against their will and forced into prostitution by people who torture random drug addicts for fun. But you’re more presenting more outrage by the author and drugs being illegal than about the crimes. This is what the last paragraph is about.
I had no idea who you were until I went back into the last posts comments. But you have presumed some sort of (negative) relationship between us, perhaps due to “self-love” as La Rouchfoucald wrote about, which is the vice I point out. You say you don’t know any runaways – well they’re out there and so are the groups that help them. The time you’ve spent invested in me could be put to that use but you don’t care about them as much as you do about exploited children. At least that seems to be your preference.
You condemn thousands because you object to society taking responsibility for it’s own decline. I understand the politics, I was a libertarian when I was very young, but I’m not talking about politics I’m speaking of your personal responsibility to ideals beyond the political. Good and evil. Enslavement to gangs or drugs for some is not freedom for others, it binds us all as surely as if we wear the same chains.
Also you might have missed the paragraph preceding it when I specifically talk about johns, but why mention them? They’re just being free, man!
People committed a terrible crime. They were discovered and will be punished.
They are going to be punished by American society as much as by anything else. Where is the tolerance for the crimes you claim exists?
Why do you oppose changes in policy which will materially improve matters? Or discussion of the same?
“This is what the last paragraph is about.”
That’s not how you wrote it. Maybe you need an editor.
“But you have presumed some sort of (negative) relationship between us, perhaps due to “self-love” as La Rouchfoucald wrote about, which is the vice I point out.”
It would be because of your false accusation and general incaution on your part about what is true, not self-love.
“I’m against dishonesty.”
ROTFLMAO. You are dishonest.
“The time you’ve spent invested in me could be put to that use but you don’t care about them as much as you do about exploited children. At least that seems to be your preference.”
You could have been helping a child instead of writing your drivel. To the highest heavens, you moral turpitude stinks. /sarc
There are battles I chose to fight to a particular degree. My charities are not your charities, I suspect. That’s ok. It doesn’t mean I’m tolerating anything much less endorsing it. You are very much taking the view that every one who isn’t as much against what you are against in the very same way is your enemy. I’m treating with you as you have asked to be treated.
“Also you might have missed the paragraph preceding it when I specifically talk about johns, but why mention them? They’re just being free, man!”
If you’d meant johns, I think you are competent to have written that. It’s not what you wrote.
“You condemn thousands because you object to society taking responsibility for it’s own decline. I understand the politics, I was a libertarian when I was very young, but I’m not talking about politics I’m speaking of your personal responsibility to ideals beyond the political. Good and evil. Enslavement to gangs or drugs for some is not freedom for others, it binds us all as surely as if we wear the same chains.”
I condemn none, and I am talking about good and evil.
You don’t think the people who I say pay to rape these women are Johns? Seriously?
This is what you wrote:
“That cold indifference to the plight of these women and children — these modern day slaves — is what makes this exploitation possible. It is not just the depravity of Jimmy Massey, Francisco Gomez, and their gang that murdered Carina Saunders; the apathy of the American public was an accessory in this crime.”
The American public are all “johns”, seriously?
If that’s what you meant, then (A) you are mental, and (B) you didn’t manage to put it into words.
If you meant the American public in it’s supposed apathy is an accessory to this crime, which is exactly what you wrote–then you’re still mental.
Rob, you could be charged with the same indifference if the situation was flipped. I could say that the prosecution of the drug war props up the traffickers and prevents thousands of citizens from getting the true help they need to break their addiction and become rehabilitated into society. The traffickers are some of the most morally repugnant scum that reside on Earth, but lucky with have plenty of laws to deal with them. What has to be done is the market for drugs needs to be taken from them. If we allow our government and honest citizens to operate dispensaries and clinics, the need for young people to buy meth from sketch people will dramatically decrease. When clinics are allowed to treat addictions by slowly weening them off the drugs–by giving the addicts smaller and smaller amounts of the actual drug they are addicted to– it is highly effective. They have done this in Switzerland, Amsterdam, and Portugal. We already pay heavy social costs for addicts; locking them up simply for using is draconian and does no service to them.
What are you talking about? Addicts will still be victimized by people like this (as they are in Europe) and this artilce is about the sex slave trade. Who cares about drugs, seriously? I present a story to you about people being held captive, tortured and raped daily and you’re whining that you can’t get high legally?
But I’m being indifferent?
If there was no such thing as drugs these gangs would still exist, right? So let’s talk about them.
Rob, you fool! Why don’t you pay attention to what I wrote instead of having a knee jerk reaction. The whole point about making the drugs legal is so addicts can have a safe place to use and recover. This would all be under the watch of doctors and health professionals. The idea is to decrease the need for these people to interact with criminal elements; of course those elements will never completely go away, but you can encourage the users to get treatment and buy elsewhere. The drug war is obviously related to this post and you have your head stuck in the sand if you think otherwise. If government and legit businesses corner the market on drugs that’s less profits for criminal elements. Prosecuting the drug war just makes it easier for the bad guys.
Have I called you names?
Bars are legal places for people with addictions – are they safe? I’ve seen quite bit of violence in them and if you attend bars on a regular basis you probably have too. I’ve also heard plenty of stories of crimes against drunks. It is the addiction and the behavior that goes with it that is dangerous, not the geography.
Also – what are my views on the drug war? Do you know?
Lol. Yes, you presumed that I was whining because I couldn’t get high which was a lie. Me calling you a fool is just a truth statement; a statement bolstered by your foolish reply: bars are legal places for addicts to go but they aren’t safe. Remarks like that hardly dignify a response under normal circumstances but I will attempt to clarify. Clinics have doctors, I.e. Trustworthy people that go through a vetting process. Vs. Bars: places with people from all walks of life who gather to get drunk and have fun. One is a professional established designed to help people the other is a place to get drunk. Rob, you fool!
Tommy Lee’s Sherrif in the film No Country for Old Men had a great line as he discussed the events of the film with a detecitve:
“But I think once you stop hearing sir and ma’am, the rest is soon to foller.”
Much as I appreciate the author’s effort to shine the light of awareness on this horrible practice, I think he should tone down the “we’re all guilty because of our indifference” rhetoric. Most of us have no contact with, or influence in, the world of meth addicted teenagers, prostitutes and pimps, or violent drug gangs. We’re not indifferent. We just don’t know what we, personally, can do about it. What does the author suggest that we do to atone for this particular sin?
Since he won’t say how to help, I will.
Two organizations – you can look them up on the web – that are dedicated to combating this vile practice are Children of the Night and Free the Slaves. There are others, but these are the two I judge to be most effective.
One focuses on exploited children. One focuses on finding and stopping the trafficking, mostly by liberating the enslaved.
Warning – once you start working with these organizations, you simply cannot stop. The heartbreak is unbelievable.
You’re certainly one up on Rob Taylor to all appearances here.
Thank you, that was worthwhile both in effect and in tone.
Excellent comment Dianna and good advice.
Thank you!
One (minor, personal) object: Free the Slaves appears to be focused on paying off slavers to “free” the slaves. Unfortunately, this maintains the profitability of slavery.
Better to kill the slavers and destroy everything they own. That way the next troglodyte who thinks slavery would be a good idea has a strong counter example.
I think you’re mistaking certain of the operations overseas for their (far more effective) practices in the United States, but whatever.
There are many organizations working on the issue of sex slavery. I named my two favored organizations. Please, when you raise a caveat to them, name an alternative.
I happen to not give a flying leap at a rolling doughnut how people are freed from slavery, btw. I’d prefer to kill the slavers, too, but (curiously) that is hard to do legally. So (like a lot of people who quite agree that buying slaves out gives a profit to the slavers but who recognize the broad indifference of many governments to the activity of enslavement) I do what I can, as I can.
Let me know when you find a way to create a force dedicated to freeing the slaves everywhere, without profiting a slaver or a corrupt bureaucrat, Rob.
One place to start might be a law that specifically invokes the 13th Amendment and sets an appropriate penalty, ” death or such other punishment as a court shall decide, but not less than 25 years imprisonment without parole”, for anyone involved with the enslavement, sale, or knowing use of any person enslaved. This would include the “Johns”.
But but … look if we just legalized it, all these problems would go away and we could actually make money in taxes off of it … of course the first step is to get it legal for medicinal reasons.
This article is why I like PJM so much- however the commentors so far are disappointing. This is not an article on drugs or prostitution or even ‘morals’ in a general sense. Also, one article cannot go into this topic in detail. Research it yourself- it is international in scope and doesn’t just involve druggies, etc. There are huge, horrible, slavery rings and you can ignore it if you like (until your 14 year niece is kidnapped, but maybe she deserves it too?). We’d all like to believe we would’ve been on the right side of the black slavery issue, but perhaps we would’ve ignored it, too (abolitionists were not popular in general). If you feel guilty about it don’t blame the ones doing something about it, and keep concentrating on the really important issues such as legalizing pot.
You know, you screwed up and became too specific in your examples. It gives a line of attack against your mewling.
Abolitionists advocated changes to laws, ending the legality of slavery.
If you’re really “Practical”–or if Taylor is into something besides, well there’s no other way to put it, bitching and moaning about the fallen state of man (I suspect he indeed is only a misanthrope)–he or you might bother to propose some change to the laws.
Those we can debate on the merits, and support if they are a net plus at tolerable cost.
I see no evidence society has ignored anything in his prattling above. A crime occurred and was discovered, the miscreants are known and seems will be punished.
What is Rob Taylor looking for to the contrary?
What does “Practical” think is more practical?
Specifics are welcome.
mewling? That is what they said about the Abolitionists too- read up on your history about what many thought of ‘those’ people. And in fact, they were pretty preachy like my comment above- but ‘worse’ as they brought up Christian duty quite a bit and were considered the worst of nags. Also, the term cracked me up. However your comment on what actually is to be done is valid- as it is for all individuals on any issue such as this. Many ignore, many disparage those ‘moralists’, some contribute money, some provide information and introduction to the problem, some actually go physically save them and offer refuge and others look at how the whole institution can be stopped. It’s all out there- Google it yourself.
The rebels claimed their treason was justified too. I know well what the South thought of those people. I know who was on the right side side of things. Rob Taylor claims American society tolerates slave trading, and I don’t think he knows much.
With what specifics does he prove it and with what specific suggestions does he purport to improve matters?
Since pimped out women and children are ubiquitous in all the major metros how exactly are we not tolerating it?
And changing laws won’t change people’s actions. This is in fact an issue of morality and culture.
It is now all a crime which is prosecuted, and the convicted incarcerated as resources permit. What other criminal act should see less enforcement so that can see more?
Where is the “toleration” in apportioning scarce resources?
There is none.
It would be a good thing for drugs to be legalized and willing prostitution involving adults to legal so there are more resources fight slavery.
So the libertarian puts the responsibility on the government. Sad when I was a libertarian we wanted to abolish the military and let the private sector fight wars, issue letters of Marque etc.
I’m talking about you and me, not the cops. Cops do a job, we are the society that tolerates criminality.
So you were not bright then and have only changed topics.
No surprise.
“Cops do a job, we are the society that tolerates criminality.”
What we put resources towards criminalizing, that’s what we are not tolerating. If we are misallocating resources, then we are not doing as much as we could of what we should. Why doesn’t that outrage you?
Because you are really here to lead a choir. It’s your thing.
Prove me wrong.
Get your head straight.
Is it the police’s job to keep people safe or is it ours? Is it the cops job to promote morality or is it ours? You claim to love freedom, though all your comments are pretty cavalier in regards to the freedom of the victims this piece is about, but you think the state is the entity responsible for culture and morality? For helping those in need? for speaking out?
In a nutshell your argument is that we legalize drugs, stop pointing out that women and children are trafficked because that “distracts” from the cause and then the police would have more resources to make people stop banging hookers who are being forced to turn tricks? But actually publicly pointing out that people should stop banging hookers forced to turn tricks is counter productive, as is warning people about the dangers of drug abuse, using dating sites etc.
Carina Saunders getting murdered isn’t “bad luck” and women and children being forced into sexual slavery is not as shrug-worthy as you make it seem. I get it – you want legal drugs and don’t like some guy on the web – but you can’t even pretend to be outraged by this horror story. Yet you don’t like me calling you apathetic?
“Is it the police’s job to keep people safe or is it ours?”
Both. Thanks for the easy pitch.
“Is it the cops job to promote morality or is it ours?”
Both. You might want to try a change up next time.
“You claim to love freedom,”
I do, I really do.
“though all your comments are pretty cavalier in regards to the freedom of the victims this piece is about”
No, I think I’ve been universally, adamantly glad the criminals who committed those crimes are caught.
“but you think the state is the entity responsible for culture and morality?”
Never said that once, have I? There you go not caring what the truth is again, you just make up whatever you need to.
“For helping those in need? for speaking out?”
Never a trace of it. And I don’t even oppose your right to make an idiot of yourself, I’m just calling you on it.
“In a nutshell your argument is that we legalize drugs,”
Wonderful idea, that.
“stop pointing out that women and children are trafficked because that “distracts” from the cause”
Never suggested that once. There’s your idea of honesty again.
“and then the police would have more resources to make people stop banging hookers who are being forced to turn tricks?”
Well they would, wouldn’t they? At any given instant of time, for any given budget year, there’s X dollars to put to a half a million ends. We spend less on prohibition, the savings can go in other directions, including pet causes.
“But actually publicly pointing out that people should stop banging hookers forced to turn tricks is counter productive, as is warning people about the dangers of drug abuse, using dating sites etc.”
Funny, that’s not what you did. You said the entirety of the American public had a role to play in the commission of the murder of Carina Saunders. You are insane.
“Carina Saunders getting murdered isn’t “bad luck””
?!
“and women and children being forced into sexual slavery is not as shrug-worthy as you make it seem.”
What part about my being glad the murderers were caught and that I hope they get a needle aren’t you reading? Honestly wanting someone to on purpose not breathe is about as negatively passionate as I can get. I’d love to think you were putting me on, but I know you are twisted enough to be serious in writing that.
“I get it – you want legal drugs and don’t like some guy on the web”
I want us to stop wasting money on something that’s wrong; and I suppose I should just shrug off being accused of child pornography and pedophilia by you. That’s nothing to get excited about.
” – but you can’t even pretend to be outraged by this horror story. Yet you don’t like me calling you apathetic?”
I’ve seen cases of honest people talking past each other. This isn’t one of them, you’re just a creep on a crusade which is incidentally a worthy one.
One of many, I should add.
Hell, some people on this site want to be apathetic about your concerns and waste their effort on defeating the Left in the next election! The cads!
Where’s a rolleyes emoticon when you need one?
Im sorry Rob, but the private sector ought not to be fighting wars. The govt has legitimate roles and protecting it’s citizens is one of them. Private companies have to make a profit first and foremost and that is in direct conflict with protecting people.
Perkins
Per your comment below, “it’s a crime that is prosecuted and punished as resources permit?” You make it sound as important as shoplifting. We are talking about slavery here, and an especially rotten, debasing and cruel sort of slavery. your blase approach seems to indicate that you really don’t think it’s all that bad, or at least you really don’t want to be bothered- which makes you a perfect example of the folks the author is talking about. You come across as one of those know it all lefties who will say anything to keep an argument going, just so you can continue to prove to yourself how clever you are. Get real.
This reminds me of the article on a volcano in Iceland that turned into savage atheist vs fundamentalist abuse.
If Tom and Rob want to fight, they should do it in private–almost the whole comment section is personal abuse of one another, with asides at anyone else who tries to get a few words in. So I expect I’m in for some, too.
Thank you, Diana, for actual information about helping.
Prostitution is called “the world’s oldest profession” still, isn’t it? It’s something that has existed independent of the status of drugs. Many people are forced into prostitution, and once prostitutes are particularly subject to violence. And if they are in business for themselves, they don’t often stay that way. The Mafia was/is involved in prostitution. The general public attitude toward prostitutes is that they do what they do of their own choice; and I’ve heard–haven’t you?–prostitution called a “victimless crime” like drug use. It would seem that we are kind of apathetic about the possibility (probability?)that a large proportion of the women, and the children involved, would not be prostitutes if they weren’t forced physically? Boys, too. That’s worth writing about, and raging about, isn’t it?
This should have been expected in America as the “value” placed on human life and individuality grows dimmer and dimmer. Keep hiding under the covers, you are soon to be also enslaved by your ignorance and/or brainwashing.
We can decide to fight this, or we can tolerate it, which is what we are doing now. I propose extending the death penalty to cover aggravated rape, slaving and on the 3rd offense of dealing narcotics, and get rid of them qickly: trial, judgement, execution. Our society would be much improved by the disposal of animals such as those pictured above.
That is how the Chinese ended their opium addiction epidemic, we could do the same if we just get the moral courage.
I’ll go for the first two on a 2nd conviction–anyone can be Nifonged, but I not too likely twice. The 3rd anyone has a right to do, it should be no crime at all.
“That is how the Chinese ended their opium addiction epidemic, we could do the same if we just get the moral courage.”
It’s nothing to do with courage, but is cowardice itself. The terrible fear that somewhere, somehow, someone is doing something you don’t like, something which does you no wrong at all–but you’re going to “police” them until somehow, magically, society and mankind is “better”.
You aren’t competent to make that judgement, and government is not competent to enforce it. You need the moral courage to face that.
BTW, it isn’t just you that is being done no wrong, it’s not anyone else either. You have no more just power to impair someones’ pursuit of happiness with chemicals than you have to make rockclimbing generically illegal, or skydiving.
Tom,
You oversimplify; skydivers don’t offer free drops in order to get people hooked on skydiving and then sell them into slavery. The narcotics trade is nothing like as innocent as “someone’s pursuit of happiness with chemicals”. It is a brutal assault on a society with the explicit intent of exploiting the people of that society for ruthless self interest. You seem to be OK with that, well the result of your nonchalance is described in this article.
“You oversimplify; skydivers don’t offer free drops in order to get people hooked on skydiving and then sell them into slavery.”
I think they do such promotions, but no, to my knowledge none have sold customers into slavery. Neither do I fear such from the guy behind the counter at the damn socialist ABC store.
“The narcotics trade is nothing like as innocent as “someone’s pursuit of happiness with chemicals”. It is a brutal assault on a society with the explicit intent of exploiting the people of that society for ruthless self interest.”
But that’s because criminals are doing it. When we were a stupid enough society to ban alcohol, criminals did that with booze, and they got rich, and bribed government into looking the other way. Why are we repeating that stupidity?
“You seem to be OK with that, well the result of your nonchalance is described in this article.”
I’m not OK with it at all, I want a stop put to it to the greatest extent possible. That means drugs are made legal.
Explain how drugs being legal would have saved Carina Saunders. Unless you made forcing women to turn tricks for you legal too, and torturing people to make others comply, then there still would be lots of law breaking here.
“Explain how drugs being legal would have saved Carina Saunders.”
It may well not have. Bad luck can happen to anyone, and there will always be beasts with two legs as well as four.
“Unless you made forcing women to turn tricks for you legal too, and torturing people to make others comply, then there still would be lots of law breaking here.”
But there would be more resources to devote to detecting perpetrators of such things before they got to further victims, if we weren’t distracted by trying to police acts which should not be crimes.
This paean to collective guilt is ridiculous. Everybody is not guilty for what some do. There are plenty of people who have no idea this kind of thing is going on, or who think it’s all hype. And then there are those who try to combat the problem in various ways; some preach religion, which IF FOLLOWED would preclude this kind of behavior in nearly every case (excepting some religion such as Satanism etc). Some build havens for the victims, and some rescue the victims. Some fight these crimes more directly. Some give money to any of the above in the hopes it’ll help. Some have no idea what to do despite an urgent wish to help. None of these are complicit or indifferent.
This is a battleground of the culture war. All those who believe that morality is irrelevant to politics are deluding themselves; morality is a rough average of what a society considers acceptable. Laws are all legislated morality, but tradition carries more weight. When a large proportion of the population decides that only the ‘transgressive’ is cool, then eventually it becomes very difficult to find anything transgressive enough.
Raping slaves, including children, is pretty near the end of the line in terms of transgressive. All that’s left is killing and eating them. And don’t think it’s not coming. What with all the wanna-be vampires out there, it’s probably already started. There will eventually be a backlash of grotesque proportions, but meanwhile it’s no easy matter to know how to fight these monsters when the law is against you, which it is; present day leviathan claims exclusive rights to violence, and so those who might have helped end up in jail or are too afraid of jail to throw down. The backlash will happen when a large enough proportion of people decide the law is an ass, and do it anyway.
This is not only a symptom of rejection of tradition, but also a side effect of the bureaucratic state. Eventually it will crumble, and hopefully before we have our own version of the Holocaust.
“All those who believe that morality is irrelevant to politics are deluding themselves; morality is a rough average of what a society considers acceptable.”
That would make morality a matter of a popularity contest. It would mean that when most approved of slavery it was AOK.
That’s not the case.
Morality is a matter of absolutes, I just don’t think that Rob Taylor–or a drug warrior–knows what they are.
Or he’d be more careful with the truth.
If morals are absolute, where is the moral mandate to permit someone to irrepairably damage themselves, merely because they want to feel a high. Should we allow people to commit suicide? Should we allow a junky to destroy his brain to the extent that he is a permanent fixture at a mental ward?
If thats the case, what is out moral imperative to the loved ones of such people? I’m sorry suzzie for the times daddy neglected or even abused you, but we were obligated to respect his right to become a junky. And this is where the extreme individualsim of libertarianism becomes a crock. If we were atoms with no relationships it would make sense, but humans are social creatures, and as much as we need to protect individual rights we also have a moral obligation to protect the depentents of our society who bear the inevitable fallout from such things as drug addictions.
I understand, the law will not prevent all drug induced meltdowns. The law will break up some families, which can do a lot of damage as well. Our moral obligation is simply to do our best to mitigate harm and protect dependents.
Because they own themselves, and you don’t own them. That’s all there is and it’s that simple. They are the proper judge of what harms them, until and unless you can make a good enough case to a jury that it has picked your pocket or broken your leg.
There’s a nice, bright, absolute line.
“Should we allow people to commit suicide?”
If the affairs of their estate are in order, and they have net assets, we have damn little grounds to say nay in just law. It is also hardly as automatic as that.
In fact, there is no daylight between the position we must not allow people to commit suicide and the notion we must provide them what ever healthcare we can to keep them alive.
We have no such obligation, except as a matter of charity. Charity, not law.
“I’m sorry suzzie for the times daddy neglected or even abused you, but we were obligated to respect his right to become a junky.”
The two are not one and the same thing. When they are coincidental, one is still a crime, and quite justly punishable.
“If we were atoms with no relationships it would make sense, but humans are social creatures, and as much as we need to protect individual rights we also have a moral obligation to protect the depentents of our society who bear the inevitable fallout from such things as drug addictions.”
And there is nothing about legalizing drugs which makes such moral obligations harder to meet, more costly to meet, or less likely to be met.
“I understand, the law will not prevent all drug induced meltdowns. The law will break up some families, which can do a lot of damage as well. Our moral obligation is simply to do our best to mitigate harm and protect dependents.”
It cannot prevent any, the rates remain the same.
Government having just goals and just means demand that drugs be legal.
More money for hunting slavers then too.
Assisted suicide is murder. It must never be legalized. Furthermore, what starts as assisted suicide quickly becomes involuntary.
So you’re entire criticism is that you don’t like the fact that myself, and others, called you out on something in another comment thread thus Carina Saunder’s murder by a gang of sex slavers is something we can debate? But again, you hate being called a moral relativist.
That’s the least of my criticisms of you, but then I can believe you have problems understanding sentences that can’t be diagrammed from one line.
A well structured argument need not be diagrammed.
Says the bull in the china shop.
Morality is not the same as virtue. Virtues are immutable, but what a society considers virtuous, i.e. morality, changes all the time. Not so long ago what women wear today and consider modest would’ve been scandalous and immoral. The underlying virtues of modesty and chastity remain the same, but the morality has adapted. And it’s also true; there are plenty of women who are extremely modest and perfectly chaste (in action at least, no knowing about thought) but wear clothes that would’ve gotten them stoned or at least whipped even in Rome during the reign of Commodus. This is the reason Atheists can be moral; they ape the morals of the society they live in. The fact that their own beliefs contain no virtues, nor any possibility of virtue, doesn’t mean that they can’t be virtuous, so long as the morality of their host culture promotes a particular set of virtues. An Atheistic society would pick and choose what virtues they wanted to include in their morality, and in the end would have to resort to force because randomly chosen virtues without an immutable basis (i.e. God), exert no power over anybody.
Of course society and culture are very large words. Trying to stretch morality to cover everybody in a nation the size of America is impossible. There are plenty of state, local, religious and political moralities that sometimes overlap and sometimes contradict the larger morality of the nation. What’s more, morality changes because of attitudes toward virtue; some reject any morality that restricts sexual activity in any way, yet are individually virtuous in their actions, and actually vote accordingly. Others are the exact opposite, believing in restrictions of every kind yet libertine in their personal behavior. ‘Bible Church’ Evangelical conservatives shack up before they get married, etc.
Moving morality is what the left does; they continually try to make the once unacceptable routine. The sexual exploitation of children has been on their to do list since the 50s, and they’re getting ever closer. They pretend that the virtues of modesty and chastity are false, and promote their own bastardized version of the virtue of honesty in their place. One of the reasons they’ve been so successful is by making morality synonymous with virtue, and then moving the standards at will. The virtues themselves have not changed even a little, and in some cases it’s been demonstrated that the morality of earlier times really was a mask for hypocrisy. And some of the stricter morality of those times had little effect on virtue; many a Victorian lady wearing three petticoats and never showing her ankles might be far less chaste than a present-day woman wearing a tank-top and knee-length shorts–mere underwear in the Victorian era. That in itself shows the changes in morality over time, but not in the underlying virtue.
Virtues, by definition, are NOT immutable. So you just wasted a lot of words…
If you care about this, please look up and donate to Children of the Night and Free the Slaves – or any other of the anti-slavery and anti-trafficking organizations that strikes your fancy.
Thank you very much.
I knew nothing, of both.
http://www.freetheslaves.net
http://www.childrenofthenight.org
Immensely difficult column.
I confess that at first I reacted negatively (like some Readers above) to the final tirade.
As some Readers have said, there are forces of Good that fight these evils.
But on second thought I must say that I like the intention of the Author of this column: he throws a giant fire-bomb and wants to provoke a reflection.
The theme is immense.
The perversion of one of the highest human joys (not sexuality per se: give birth to new life through the meeting of two joys)is in itself a hell that we all risk.
What do we do, and what can we do to keep on the right path ? And what is the right path ? Respect of the human dignity (in ourselves and in others).
And that of course is an open discussion.
On the other side, it’s easy to see that nihilism, that has pervaded our whole culture, is destroying the families, the schools, the society.
So that’s the first battle, the battle against the subversion of the Tradition.
Then again, another point of view: recently a University tried to launch an investigation to study the users of porn online and compare them to those who do not watch porn online. They had to stop the research, there was not a single person they could find that could honestly say to have never watched porn online.
I do appreciate this column. We need this reflection.
Subversion has gone deep in perverting the whole society and we are slow in answering.
Let us pray for help.
It doesn’t matter whether the public is apathetic or not. Anyone who’s run around these type of people should realize that they are completely invisible to the public. If you’re not in you’re out and can affect nothing they do. Cities are very large and people come out of one building, get in a car, drive, and go into another building, frequently in neighborhoods where they do not seem out of place.
Unless they accidentally run afoul of the law by being stopped in a car and searched, they cannot be penetrated unless someone in their crowd gives them up by making a buy with police in tow. Brutality is a way of saying do your time if caught and do not even think of making a buy with the police in tow.
There is a large criminal underclass in this country which is much larger and more difficult to detect with a population of 300 million as opposed to 200 million 50 years ago.
And still immigrants keep coming and at some point we should have a national dialogue about whether there is a population figure beyond which effective governance is simply impossible.
When one is running around such criminals it is really evident and if you lie down with dogs you get fleas.
aposematic: “This should have been expected in America as the “value” placed on human life and individuality grows dimmer and dimmer.”
Bingo! When we became tolerant of the direction the Left was taking us, we all became complicit in this crime. While we continue to allow Mexican, black and white trash gangs to roam the streets, we became complicit in this crime.
How come we don’t deport the Mexican gangs? How come we don’t imprison the home-grown latino gangs? Black gangs own many major cities like LA, Chicago, Philly, Detroit… Get the picture. Yet little is done agaist them. Why?
How come the MSM isn’t all over this? Hint: who were the victims? Where is NOW? Where is Piglosi railing in Congress about this?
The answer is that the left uses these gangs as political fodder against the right. While this writer found these examples in OK, there is no escaping that it is the big city-read Dem controlled cities-where the problem in centered. And the left would rather lose a few girls than estrange their base constituency-blacks, latinos and poor white trash.
And billionaires. Dont forget the Democrats are the party of the crony capitalist first and foremost.
Several points here from a veteran and now retired career detective.
1. Social crimes like prostitution and drug use have been with us from the beginning. All we can do is hope to tamp it down to the point where it doesn’t destroy the society from within.
2. Legalizing dope is a stupid idea and anyone willing to argue it can go to my website http://www.truthandcommonsense.com and search “peeling the onion”. It won’t work. People will pay for vices. We regulate one, others will arise. Plus, as one poster pointed out, there is no “War on Drugs” in America. There never was. It was a political ploy to get politicians reelected. I know, I lived the era and saw the hypocrisy.
3. Do not confuse local prostitution with slave trade. They are not the same beast even though on the surface they look similar. One relies on women and men, trapped in their own nightmare, choosing to ply that trade. The other is more of a kidnapping and forced slavery system, which is very common outside this nation by the way (especially in the Middle East).
4. As for the “criminal organizations making money because something is illegal and if we legalize it the organization will starve for money” argument, I will throw that kind of theory onto the same pile that holds the “If we can only make the Islamic terrorists realize we aren’t bad guys, then the ‘religion of peace’ will demand they leave us alone.” Serious, it scares me how unable we are as Americans to see how bad guys think. I call it the “John Wayne syndrome”. We think that others think and feel like we do, and try to relate to them by imprinting our values on their lives. Foolish and frankly lethal. ID theft, mortgage fraud, extortion, commercial thefts are all already illegal and organized crime from all parts of the world do it at quite a profit. I like to argue the legalization of dope with people because by the end of the argument I can see blood oozing from their eyes as their brains melt as they try to thread the needle and find it impossible as reality blocks the way.
The slave trade is something all of us need to be aware of and realize it exists within our own cities, even if it is on a small scale. In my city we found a house full of illegal immigrant girls that were “forced” into prostitution by their handlers in order to pay debt. Their clients were other illegals who liked it fast and easy. That house was one of several, so yes it exists. As do the occasional stories of young American women (especially blondes) who go to the Middle East for “entertainment employment” opportunities and are never seen again.
It is a bad world. The goal is to get as much bad away from our doorsteps as possible and frankly that will happen only when Americans, as a society, decide it needs to happen. Until then, well, keep you kids and family close and a watchful eye open.
I understand the position that keeping crime “minimized” is about the best we can actually do, but there is so much bloody glamorization of criminal behavior in the entertainment media! Shouldn’t that change? Couldn’t we change that?
As a father of girls, I was sickened by these stories. It seems to me that if we wanted to stop this practice, it would be as simple as posing as a customer, and calling police. There must be somewhere these creeps advertise their services, does anyone know where? I know that police many times refuse to enforce drug laws, are they looking the other way here too.I have never noticed any hint of anything like this. Am I just naive? What are the clue’s? If there are customers willing to pay 1200 per night someone knows something. Is it just word of mouth?
Backpage is currently one of the biggest sites that is known to allow trafficking. They picked up steam in the “adult services” sections when Craigslist was forced to close there’s down.
http://craigscrimelist.org/tag/backpage-2/
In this area women are sold not for $1200 a night but for as little as $60 an hour. The glamorous call girl myth is just that – a myth.
Thanks for the link. So if this is where the men are finding these girls, why can’t the police answer these ads and make arrests? Or are the police complicit, by their inaction?
Careful, I think he may be a cop worshiper. The cognitive dissonance caused by being confronted with the police not having the same priorities as he does would cause a breakdown.
OK, Tom, calm down. Let’s see if I’ve got your arguments straight.
Cops suck and are out to get you.
The fact that meth is illegal is an outrage deserving of an endless rant, but reporting the torture-murder of a young woman is cheap emotionalism.
Ron Paul will save America?
No cops are out to get me, I’m saving my felonies for something important!
;^)
At least the ones I know about.
[ Links to the following books at Amazon were in this post, which has been in moderation, PJM seems not to like links. Below I am posting the titles, which I have had to manually edit from the links, please be aware there may be errors. Where subtitles were mangled in a link, I truncated them. 2012/01/08 -TDP ]
“Three Felonies a Day”
“Go Directly to Jail: the Criminalization of Everything”
“The Tyranny of Good Intentions”
“One Nation Under Arrest”
“The Criminalization of Medicine”
Last I checked, the conservative spiel is that the elites haven’t been too keen on the constitution lately, like for a 100 years or more. That’s who signs the cops’ paychecks, and last I heard, the cops pretty much always do just whatever those people say.
That spiel is true.
The Oathkeepers, though good men, are too few to redeem the mob in blue.
They do occasional sweeps – though around here they do more stings of streetwalkers. Partly it has to do with apathy – the public wants more cops at our growing downtown which has gotten more wild as people move from the northeast so there’s no push to come down on them. The other is setting it up – pimps have girls do “incall” only which makes it more dangerous for a cop to walk in and set up a bust. Girls doing outcalls don’t go to motels because that’s how cops set up stings. The cops also have their hands full with a pedophile problem – we have cops dedicated to online pedophile stings in my small town. We also have a meth problem and that’s where people want the attention – because the cooking of it is dangerous.
So sex slavery is tolerated because “it is too dangerous to do “incalls” ,or the police have more “important” priorities. Maybe we need to turn the “incalls” over to the marines. Has our police force become afraid to confront evil ,because of the danger? Do these children not count?
Apathy? Really?
Honestly, if people had the slightest clue, they would be furious. They don’t.
Not all that many years ago, a brothel stocked with very young girls from Guatemala in a lower-middle-class suburb was busted. The residents who noticed all these young girls and asked about them were told it was a half-way house for troubled girls. It took months for enough observations to be made for a call to the cops!
Literally, decent people cannot imagine this traffic. They see it, but cannot believe it. You can call them names, but the truth is that it never crosses their minds until they see or hear something undeniable.
I’m told cops set up stings with electronic surveillance and multiple back-up units. Pimps are hip to this so arrange their business so that it makes it harder to set up stings. They happen here, on occasion, but rousting them won’t work and send a guy into a hotel room where they don’t know how many people may be there wearing a wire just isn’t what happens here.
The last two prostitution busts I know of here involved a decoy cop on the corner of a drug and hooker strip. The last human trafficking case was the result of a tip by a john I think but it was in a massage parlor. As far as I know there hasn’t been a sting on backpage but I know for a fact that police are aware of backpage.
Backpage is a disgrace. Most unfortunately, there’s no legal proof of actual trafficking. If you have hard proof of any, please get it to the correct authorities.
It’s harder than people think to even begin to catch these people.
I’ve passed along tips about trafficking. The problem with Backpage – as we see with the Satoria Youngblood case – is that it’s easy to pick up an leave when the heat is on. As I understand it here there’s a “circuit” of cities the pimps move through – only staying a few weeks in one place sometimes.
Of course prior to Backpage the Village Voice had the backpage ads, as do most other free papers. They’re a nexus of the problem, but not the root.
It’s harder than people think to even begin to catch these people.
I’m sorry! If they can advertise and get customers, they can be caught.This is not a priority for the police because it is dangerous. Sadly, policing has been bureaucratized ,and unionized. They apparently make it a priority to go after drug deals ,over a child or woman being raped. This makes me so enraged. This could be stopped in a week if we allowed our military to take care of business. They don’t have a union! This is the fault of the police, not doing their job.
I’ve been studying this for awhile and seeing where I can donate but haven’t taken the step yet- this article and discussion (thanks Dianna) is pushing me into commitment. One book I read by a Cambodian woman who escaped and is leading a real underground railroad in Cambodia. It was very inspiring (that’s not the word- horrible..) then at the very end she said something like, it’s not enough to just donate- you need to meet these girls/women personally and help them. Well, I got a little irked: I work 24/7 to keep 20 people employed (and have the money to donate), and not enough time for my own family…but she is right anyway. This is not just a philosophical issue, a TV show, or a blog article but many people forced into real life slavery and its closer to your life than you may realize. You may have your own things you donate time and money to- but my ‘guilt’ inducing comment comparing it to the US Black Slavery situation still stands for those who do not think it an issue at all, or ‘I just didn’t know’, blame the victims who are never perfect themselves, use economic/morality implications as justification -all the arguments always used as old as slavery itself.
Mexican national aka illegal alien.
There is nothing like having an unsecured border, so the turd world culture can help destroy the United States culture.
That is the agenda right? A North American Union by changing the facts on the ground with millions of illegal aliens, and moon god worshipers bringing their culture, and not being apart of American culture.
Everything old is new again. Infanticide, euthanasia, slavery, man’s inhumanity towards man. God is dead and Nihilism reigns in his place;
“The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy.”
Very much the point. Lovecraft was almost prophetic in that quote – ironic considering his views. All the earth will eventually flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and “freedom” as Old Castro said.
Roger in Florida No. 9 points to a solution to problems,which generally can be grouped under the vague, but common title, social conservatism. Mr. Perkins disagrees in part. At its root, for Americans, is the conflict between morality and social law. We have passed the age when slavery was legal. It has never been moral. We now debate whether aggravated rape, slaving or dealing narcotics should be sanctioned, along with abortion, pedophilia, gay marriage, and porn of various debaucheries. The Root ’83 contributes. All of above activities are fostered by the profit motive. Where do we draw the line on the slippery slope, for gate way activities?
Roger raises a unique historical fact to my knowledge. Approximately 1/3 of the Chinese male population were coerced, or tempted to become drug addicts to satisfy a market for European vendors, particularly England, in teh 19th century. After the Boxer rebellion, the Chinese new order executed any one involved with heroin. Tens of thousands were beheaded; their skulls impaled on poles at the entrance to every city. Drug addiction thereafter ceased to exist as a social problem. They solved a problem.
This should be the criteria: Is the activity a social problem, e.g sex with a minor, with a consenting adult, or with a terrified human victim? Mexico is undergoing a drug war supported by the US market, while drugs are legal in some European nations. They are going down the tubes. In Islam, it is a death sentence to shake hands with an unrelated woman, while California has a $14 billion dollar porn industry. What is a reasonable societal position, and who decides?
I hold that religion forms a view of moral behavior, and our diverse religions should and must inform our legal views, particularly on the boundary of freedom of action. Rock climbing may be legal if we can decide who is obligated to save idiots, near death on a cliff. I do not agree that 0.08 BAC % alcohol is a reasonable limit for arrest, but any serious bodily injury caused by 0. 2 should be prosecuted as attempted murder. If doctors judge that rapists are incurable, they should never be paroled. At some definable point in the first few days/weeks after conception, the fetus is endowed with the right to live. Whoever causes, or takes life illegally commits a crime comparable to homicide. These are state issues, as the SC, or the Federal government has no jurisdiction on them. The people’s legislatures should decide.
I agree. I also think that people need to take responsibility for their own communities and what goes on in them. When I was a kid my neighbor watched me and told family if she saw me doing something wrong. Even when I lived in the Bronx my neighbors knew I’d look out for their kids coming in late if I was up etc. But in these stories we see failure of not just societal institutions, but of everyday people.
The girl trafficked at Occupy for example. Where were her comrades when someone was pimping her out? They certainly weren’t looking out for her.
Where were Carina Saunders’ friends when she was going to see Massey? I remember a time when people didn’t let their friends go somewhere dangerous alone.
It seems to me like a bigger problem than laws alone can handle. It means a change in how we as a culture act, letting go of the “mind my own business” mentality and really putting ourselves into the world in a way urbanization, liberalism and technology has pushed us away from.
It is unfortunate and extremely sad, that in many, many apartment buildings in America, people don’t even KNOW who their neighbors are.
You speak as if human moral failing is something new. As if your generation is absolved because you and your friends watched out for others’ kids. Earth to Rob! There are still people who do that today, just as there were murderers and rapists in your time. The world is getting smaller and more visible; not worse. That is why you are seeing more violence.
Article: “the apathy of the American public was an accessory in this crime”. It is not the American public who are to blame! It is the people who are running this country who are to blame! It is THEIR indifference that is to blame! THEY are paid with our taxes to run the country which includes STOPPING this horrendous crime against humanity!
Every human rights organization in America must organize massive street protests in every city and town demanding appropriate action by state and federal government against the vile, filthy, satanic slavers. Parasites. Predators from hell.
Every single person found guilty of slavery MUST be given the DEATH SENTENCE.
The death sentence is not a just punishment. The death sentence is to prevent these evil monsters from ever again participating in slavery.
I agree with the spirit but the government of a Republic IS the people. Passing the buck to them doesn’t absolve us of our responsibility to make reports, shelter victims, stand up to gangs and all the other things good people are supposed to do.
This is the main reason I think government programs designed to help people (medicare, food stamps, welfare) actually harm our society rather than helping. Not only is private assistance more efficient, but having government programs has led a lot of people to decide that they don’t have an obligation to help others.
We’re still a caring country, though. After major international disasters, you’ll usually see statistics about how “generous” various countries are. The US always ranks pretty low because the surveys only count government funds and not private donations (like Red Cross, Doctors without Borders, etc) but when private donations are counted, we’re right up there. What I’ve found, in being the loud-mouthed troublemaker in my community, is that people don’t want to be the first to stand up, but they’ll line up next to the one who does.
Rob, the surest way to get people to ignore your message is to blame them for the problem.
You are right that the death sentence is not a just punishment- it is too lenient for such monsters. Unfortunately, it is the harshest punishment we can inflict, so we must leave it up to God to give them what they really deserve. It’s a shame we can’t legalize crucifixion as a means of executing such monsters.
A major component is lax or nonexistent immigration law enforcement. In my part of the World, phony family unification immigration from Asia is a major part of the scam. Much of Filipino society runs like Mexico and other Latin countries on a patron-client system. The Patron sponsors a young woman claiming her to be a relative, apparently nobody does much checking, and she has her passport and other documents confiscated on arrival. She’s placed in a house with large numbers of other clients, male and female, who are sent out to work at everything from prostitution to dealing to legitimate jobs in the community. Whatever they’re paid goes to the Patron. I can see the houses with too many cars and all the other indicia and I know the cops can too. When I lived in Juneau it was the CW that the Filipino community was very law abiding, but everybody who’d been around the block a time or two knew better; as long as the crime wasn’t against an Anglo, it was never reported, and local justice took care of it. Lots of people got their last glimpse of life through the mesh of a king crab pot. Here in Anchorage, in addition to the various Asian Patrons and their clients, we have their gangs as well and to celebrate a little diversity, we have more than a fair share of Eastern Europeans and Russians who are contemptuous of our lax law enforcement. I went to a fairly high-brow New Year’s Party, and there were Russian/Eastern European guys there with strings of young, pretty girls. People who want to believe that those are daughers, nieces, and their friends are welcome to, but I sure don’t believe it. Interestingly, there were more than a few Black tough guys there as well, but they has what would at least pass for wives with them and were the very soul of family values; interesting contrast.
On the prostitution side of it, Anchorage and Fairbanks have always tolerated a good bit of fairly open prostitution so long as the participants didn’t involve themselve directly in other criminal activity, at least as the criminal actor; I doubt there has ever been a stripper or hooker that didn’t use drugs, but they get busted or worse if they deal. It was a real problem for us in dealing with Correctional Officers since a very large percentage of women incarcerated were veterans of the sex trade and were very adept at gettin over on weak-minded, and not so weak-minded men. I doubt a month ever went by in my whole career that we didn’t dismiss or force the resignation of a CO for what we euphemistically called “undue familiarity.”
There’s a post in moderation that others need to see, so they can see Tine Trent is FOS.
And no, Ron Paul is the last person running I’d want to see in the Oval Office.
He’s the only one Romney beats in my estimation.
Looks to me like the way those murdered girls got involved with hard core criminals was by starting on drugs; they weren’t just kidnapped off the streets for the most part. A good way to stop teen girls from starting on hard drugs like meth or crack is to publish before and after photos or mug shots of actual meth users and put them places where kids see them. I’ve seen them. The before photos show pretty, smiling girls and the after photos (after as little as 6 months) show wrecks with ratty hair, pimples, open sores on their faces, missing or rotted teeth, dull eyes, dazed expressions. Not what most 13 year olds want to grow up to look like. And it isn’t just Mexican and Arab nationals running these slavery operations. Asian do it too. They usually have front businesses, often restaurants where the money can be laundered.
Our culture has become degraded and debased due to political correctness and multicultural sensitivity. We tolerate things that we shouldn’t. Easy access to pornography and ads for prostitution are both a symptom and a result of a society that refuses to believe certain things are immoral and should not be tolerated. Can we correct the problem? I think so but it will take a tremendous effort and require those of us who still care to speak out and become targets of the willfully depraved shouting “Intolerant!” at us.
What does porn have to do with multiculturality and political correctness? Every society has different things that are tolerated and proscribed.
Well it appears that there might be a strong minority representation among the perps. Is that part of the discussion?
Dang. Unlike the drug thing, that may be an actual non-sequitor. That you whiskey?
Suffer Little Children
The oft-misinterpreted phrase from Matthew 19:14 in the King James version of the Bible, “Suffer little children,” has taken on meanings in the world today far beyond excluding kids from hearing Christ’s words.
The precise quotation, “But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven,” has been adapted to everything from a short story by Stephen King to pop songs with entirely different connotations which are far more bothersome.
Kids are probably suffering more in 2011 than ever before for various reasons.
In addition to abortion statistics and the act of abortion itself which involves the ultimate suffering, death in the womb for babies before they get the opportunity to grow into children, there is other appalling evidence that fewer people really care about kids.
The disturbing values of some Muslim immigrants have compounded the already-distubed prevailing culture of devaluing human life in America and throughout the so-called civilized world. Both have contributed exponentially to childhood suffering.
Two stories out of England, one relating to atrocities in Liverpool, the other to one in Harlem, graphically illustrate the problem.
The Liverpool matter actually involves a combination of atrocious events–vicious and “endemic” gang rapes by Muslim men of young non-Muslim girls and a concerted effort by journalists to cover them up in the interests of discouraging “racists” and “fascists” and promoting “the development of social harmony and well-being.” (http://bit.ly/wU2QRx)
As Brits would say, What poppycock!
On January 3rd, eleven Muslim men–Abdul Aziz, Abdul Qayyum, Abdul Rauf, Adil Khan, Hamid Safi, Kabeer Hasan, Liaqat Hussain Shah, Mohammad Amin, Mohammad Sajid, Qamar Shahzad, and Shabir Ahmed–went on trial in Liverpool for the organized gang rapes.
According to an authoritative source and in accordance with the guidelines of Britain’s National Union of Journalists, NUJ, “You’ll not find a single reference to their crimes or their upcoming trial anywhere in the British media. Anywhere.”
The Koran condones Muslim men engaging in sexual intercourse with chattel, that is, with captive women and slave girls. With all the rights and privileges that have been accorded Muslims throughout Europe, they apparently feel nubile infidels are fair game, tantamount to captive slaves.
Almost worse, the British media obviously concurs since they won’t report to the public on the trial of the rapists. They apparently feel publicity would exacerbate native Britons’ justified fury over Muslim interlopers destroying their country, and their children.
Maybe when the daughter of a NUJ member is gangraped, NUJ rules will change. And maybe not.
Meanwhile, as young Liverpudlian girls and their European sisters in pain suffer at the hands of Muslims so, too, do Harlem youngsters suffer–with the qualification that the latter don’t seem to mind their suffering. . .
(Read more at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=12037.)
We live in odd times. Our governments at every level pass loads of laws every year, but we have selective enforcement and the wheels of justice are expensive, slow, and not really much of a deterrent. We decree that we cannot use plastic grocery bags, require 8 year olds to be in car seats, and other vital things. Yet the City of Seattle doesn’t prosecute someone for car theft until his sixth arrest. We give illegals in state tuition instead of deporting. It goes on and on.
In the 60′s we had possibly a 10th of the laws, but most of the public followed the law. There seemed to be a consensus that really serious crimes of murder, kidnapping, and the like were prosecuted dillegently. Jaywalking, while illegal didn’t have much effort put on it.
Now we lament but are not surprised about the deaths around us as the article noted. We have let others run our communities and the illegal activity to flourish. Each shocking case those in power pass some new laws that will “fix” things, but it doesn’t. We do not step back and see what are the systemic changes that will greatly reduce the problem.
We are split on condoning drugs or condemming them. We do not work thru whether partial legalization of the use and legal sources, but heavy penalties for illegal sources. That might break the cycle. Certainly the War on Drugs has proven to be a string of retreats as we claim Victory.
S$x is another big issue, we have mainstreamed the idea that everybody is doing it, mainstream porn, its in nearly every movie, but we still cannot talk about it. Much less bring s$x out of the closet in most families. We certainly do not teach it, certainly not hands on demonstrations on how to get to 3rd base. It is critical to relationships and lifetime happiness, but we are supposed to learn it behind closed doors in the dark. Is it any wonder that intimacy is not learned, and that so many are quite unhinged about it. It is because everyone but me is good at it.
Women feel they need to get a plastic rack to look pretty, must be a size 4 or less, but really do not realize all their man wants is a genuine smile. The guys think that rough sex should be good as that is what is in porn, and are crazed to try it. In frustration they look elsewhere, but our society has pushed that elsewhere into the bad part of town. Much of the young hot things are controlled by Pimps that are very evil persons. This article is right on about this group.
It doesn’t have to be, woman in other countries practice the oldest profession in a professional manner akin to therapists. Canada and New Zealand both have decrimilized it, individual woman can be escorts with licensing. They can share a place with other women, basically it is legal and they can go to the police with any problems. But the pimps, brothels, and most of the evil part is very illegal and prosecuted. With a legal source available from women that choose to work that way the prices come way down, the black market dries up, and substance abuse is reduced. Further, there is the potential for intimacy to be taught. I know – people as going “BS”. I have seen it in real life and it does work.
Our community had a wonderful lady that “provided”, she was an escort by choice, was pulling her life together and was happy. A very evil man Threadgill was a pimp and his girl were very jealous of Jennifer, who had refused to be pimped. Those two took Jennifer’s life in a horrible murder.
http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/wa-s-most-wanted-helps-solve-cold-case-woman-murdered-stabbed-63-times
Threadgill’s trial starts on the 9th
“Women feel they need to get a plastic rack to look pretty, must be a size 4 or less, but really do not realize all their man wants is a genuine smile”
Any good stripper knows that. The ones who make money know how to talk to guys and make them feel special.
I think most female pursuit of beauty, however that is defined, is not so much for their husbands or boyfriends. It has more to do with how they feel about themselves and how the rest of the world responds to them.
Again, recommended reading on this subject, *The Franklin Scandal* authored by Nick Bryant. Google the author and the title of his book and you will get a hell of an education on why their is such an indifference in the political class and even law enforcement when it comes to child abuse, and it is scary as to why year after year the *system* makes no inroads towards reigning in sex slavery, be it children or adults.
Concerning legalizing drugs or prostitution, well lets consider China. Well over 5000 years of dealing with the lusts of its public and on a gargantuan scale as compared to the United States, and I am no expert on Chinese history but they have at various times in their history practiced open ended tolerance that would bring a smile to Timothy Leary. And the Occupy Wall Street crowd would weep in the street at the bizarre ahem bazaar marketplace of drugs and women that were bought and sold at various intervals of Chinese uncivil societal history. And that is the key term *Bought and Sold* in a society where drugs and prostitution our given free reign women and children will be reduced to the status of chattel slaves. why? Simply the socio-pathic male entrepreneur class always finds its niche and a whole lot passive aggressive buyers in the creepy marketplace of ideas and services that follow open drug dealing and legal prostitution. All the nerds in the world that read web pages like these (PJ Media) or even own computers that have never ventured into the sadly exploitive ads that populate Craigslist that cater to the horny and the pathetic. None of us will make a dimes worth of difference in *humanizing* the experience between a sex worker and their customer. Its a financial transaction. Hopefully few of you will have to invest one drop of your virtue into the moral morass that resembels Saigon 1965 or Shanghai 1930 or New York,s Time Square 1972. All of these times and places bespoke *tolerance*. All became reference points of moral decay. Yes moral decay. Which is 10,000 times worse than tooth decay. Question? Why would you wish that on your own country. Allow me to put the question in an uneven or even a juvenile way. Would it be okay that I borrow your sister or wife , girlfriend or child for just one night of sex work? Just one night not even 8 hours. And I promise to have them back before the dawn. The Chinese have 3 billion we have 330 million, so, if 1/2 of 1% of each of these perspective populations aspire to be sex work managers imagine how much a civil society in China has to invest to keep the cork on the bottle of the potential exploited class. What I sense from reading the comments and the sensibilities that govern the tone of these comments is that beside being insensitive, and careless in our thinking, people have no idea how large and endless the feeding trough is for the appetites of the sex work managers. Remember, they want nice cars and clothes just like the guy at PC Richards or the McDonalds hamburger manager. Problem is the human sharks that make up the drug and sex industry dispose of human flesh. This aint old TV appliances or moldy bread or rancid coffee. That blood in the water these human sharks feast upon are our neighbors our friends our families.
That post with links is still in moderation.
Nevermind, I posted the book titles without links.
All sex workers are trafficking victims, just like all Catholic priests are pedophiles.
There are men who’s only concern is busting a brainless nut and they have existed since time immemorial. Until men are shamed for being ruled by their carnal desires, prostitution will continue to be a societal scourge.
According Gawd, those men should be heroes: be fruitful and multiple, right? Most men are ruled by carnal desires, are they not?
If you don’t understand the bible try not to comment on it.
If you had understood the comment of being fruitful has always been spoken of as having a place in an established union.
Those who spread their seed every which way with no regard to the mothers or the children are out for selfish gratification which is not operating with the laws of God.
*According to Gawd, those men should be heroes: be fruitful and multiple, right? Most men are ruled by carnal desires, are they not?
Saying twice doesn’t make you any less the idiot.
Your favorite phrase, eh Art? Explain how I am the idiot? Does your book not say be fruitful and multiple?
People who write articles on PJ Media should not get in the comments and argue with others. It goes a lot better that way.
Amen. The writers come off as petty, nprofessional & juvenile. Let your work stand for itself. I guess PJM lets each writer decide because not all of the writers seem to do it. But I’ve quickly lost respect for the writers who feel the need to go tit for tat with the commenters, a good percentage of whom are insane anyway(myself included).
I think that’s unwritten PJM policy and it certainly builds traffic for the site. It’s not enough for an author to post a blog item. They have a viewpoint and opinions and that they get in the mess and evangelise it, is rather refreshing to me. I like that…….
Any male who has ever paid for sex or patronized a strip club is as guilty as these monsters who enslave these women and children.
Our culture sees such activity as criminal, whereas under Sharia the sex slave part is quite permissible.
The great evil in our culture is that our politicians and judicial system put a lot of effort into pursuing victimless crime and not enough pursuing and incarcerating violent criminals and thieves.
Victimless crime includes doing drugs yourself. If drugs were legalized (sold the way Canada sells alcohol, at government liquor stores) a lot less violent crime would occur (the drug trade would largely collapse) and money could be directed where it should be. The government war on drugs, and those who support it, are the distal cause of drug trade crime, just as they were the distal cause of alcohol prohibition crimes.
Many white collar ‘crimes’ occur that may actually be quite legitimate (as is much insider trading) yet millions are spent to convict the likes Michael Milken simply because they made themselves and other people a lot of money by smart investment.
It’s insane.
Poor Carina…….
She thought being pretty and blonde was all she needed to get through life. Many young girls think this way and it’s a severe failing of our culture; addiction is an incidental and secondary issue……
We’re also looking at a criminal underclass that’s utterly removed from simple human virtues and basic humanity itself. I don’t see reform of drug laws nor social programmes having any serious effect on this. This underclass may consider reform and adjusting to civilised norms when they are convinced their only other option is that we kill them. Not in prison, not after extensive legal review; but in blunt, brutal warfare – taking collateral damage. Forcing the underclass to unconditional surrender may make melting the faces of a few junkies and johns utterly worth it……
RnBram: Agreed.
A lesson learned to teen girls – don’t do meth. You’ll fall in with a scary crowd and anything can happen.
Despite Mr. Taylor’s conviction that everyone in America is guilty of abetting sex slavery, there has actually been a concerted effort , over many years, among local, national, and international law enforcement to address this issue. This has involved many civil and community organizations as well. His ignorance of this fact belies his claim to be an expert on this subject. Google ‘sex slavery’ for some examples. The American public is certainly not apathic towards these crimes. But realistically sex slavery is relatively rare and occurs underground. Most sex workers are not actually sex slaves.
The gang problem is not a high priority in this country. In every community the police know every gang member and often know of crimes these gangs have committed. But it is far safer and far more profitable to hand out traffic tickets and DUIs then it is to arrest gamg members. This is allowed to happen and it is the fault of your local police, judges and politicians.
I think their is better solution. Find Jimmy Massey and Gomez. Convict them. Lead them to a coutyard. One bullet to the back of the head each. That would be merciful considering what they did to Carina.
The solution is to inflict upon the criminal the same manner of death they have inflicted on the victim.
An eye for and eye and tooth for a tooth, barbaric, maybe but man does not follow the law because he likes it, he follows the law because he fears it and its consequence, when the consequence is less than what the criminal has commited then he has no fear hence he will continue to commit the crime.
If the punishment for crimes were equal or harsher then the criminal would think twice about his behavior, for example, if Massey had inflicted that pain and suffering on my daughter and he was handed over to me, I would butcher him, slowly, painfully, I would make it last and as an added bonus I would line up the filfth who were in prison for lesser crimes as an added incentive for them to follow civilized laws… Of course that will never happen thanks to the bongo chanting crowd, thank God for the 2nd Ammendment, at least we have a smidgen of protection and justice should we ever have the misfortune to encounter this scum.
legalise the drugs in mexico. Send the yanks home to fight their drug war in their country – Yes yes to napalm lets do it to Texas.