Scozzafava Struggles for Conservative Support in NY23
Those two factors alone would likely have been enough to send Ms. Malkin to the barricades, but Dede Scozzafava has committed the additional sin of having previously been aligned with the Working Families Party (WFP). People not familiar with the local lay of the land tend to mistakenly label the WFP as a socialist organization, though it’s far from it by any reasonable measure. The New York branch has, in the past, endorsed Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, and New York Conservatives, along with their own slate of candidates in local races. They are about as independent as they come and draw a small but significant base of support in the upstate region.
Beyond Dede’s lack of social conservative bona fides, this race was complicated even further by the decision of the NRCC to dip a toe in this already boiling pool and support her over Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman. This has proven to be a particularly stinging bee in the bonnet of many conservatives, including William Kristol. These complaints bear a striking resemblance to the internecine warfare currently taking place in Florida between the national GOP-anointed Charlie Crist and Marco Rubio. In each case, conservative ire is directed at party leadership which endorses a moderate over the potential local selection of a more fire-breathing conservative.
But what if the RNCC is simply more interested in winning?
Despite the various bits of crowing over some recent Siena polls which show Hoffman doing better than we might have expected, the reality on the ground hasn’t changed here. Just as the WFP isn’t actually the Mao-loving, socialist haven many pundits would like to imagine, the New York Conservative Party is not a real powerhouse in Empire State politics. They typically align with the GOP, albeit sullenly, because they have historically been unable to elect their own candidates above the county level. When they do run their own way they prove to be nothing but spoilers, which is exactly what they may line up to do this November.
Hoffman seems to be filling the role of Chris Dagget in New Jersey, where Rasmussen is hinting that he may yet hand a victory to Jon Corzine, who really should have had no chance of getting within smelling distance of Chris Christie. If his current numbers hold and he keeps attracting the national attention (and dollars) of angry conservatives, yet another New York congressional seat could transfer over to the Democrats in what has historically been a safe GOP seat. And this comes at a time when the N.Y. Republican delegation has shrunk to a number which can be counted on one hand and Pete King may well be redistricted out of a job following the next census.
You may not care much for Dede if you’re a dyed-in-the-wool conservative, but she would still caucus with the Republicans. This may be a time for a little less anger and a bit more concern over how many seats you would like to pick up in 2010. Would you really rather see a Democrat in that chair? Then again, judging by the antics in Florida and the hyperventilating of the chattering class, perhaps you would.
You have it backwards, Jazz. The old money and the Beltway GOP are getting a much needed education here. No more RINOs. They are like a cancer that suck the life out of the GOP. I happen to be an independent. I won’t send money anywhere but SarahPAC until the GOP gets the message. This seat will be up again in a year. If the Dems win it this time, conservatives can win next time. Country First, remember?
This race may hinge on the critical Libertarian swing vote, and right now we’re aligning with Scazzofava; not so much for any sort of great love for her. She’s okay from our Libertarian perspective; decent on tax cuts, has NRA backing. But she’s not a hardline free marketeer as we would prefer.
Still, the Conservatives are proving to be extreme hypocrites in this race, particularly national Conservatives.
Where were they 3 years ago, with Bob Smither, Libertarian for Congress in Houston? You may recall, Tom DeLay resigned his seat unexpectedly. This left the Republican Party with no candidate on the ballot. But they were in luck; a Libertarian Bob Smither, Christian-guy, local Crime Victim’s rights hero, Pro-Life, had ballot placement. At first, it seemed a given, the GOP would back Smither and save the seat. Smither reciprocated with a pledge to “Caucus with the GOP” if elected in this overwhelming Republican District (NASA/S. Houston).
Well, some Social Conservatives in Ft. Bend County pulled a fast one, and recruited universally despised Shelly Sekula-Gibbs to run a cockamamie write-in candidacy.
Predictable result: Democrat Nick Lampson ended up winning the seat, Gibbs got 24% and Smither 6%.
We could’ve won, if not for the stubborness of Social Conservatives. They’ll back a Conservative 3rd Party candidate, but never a Libertarian.
So too bad Conservatives. We Libertarians are going with the Moderate Republican this time around. As they say… Payback’s a…
Eric Dondero, Publisher
Libertarian Republican
It’s not my district. My Representative is Dan Maffei, a Nancy Pelosi zombie.
The New York Republican party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Democrats, or a fifth column. That’s the only logical explanation. If you want fiscal conservatism, and polls say most do, nobody is representing you in NY.
The laws are stacked against us. Unlike California, there are no powers of initiative, referendum, or recall.
The conservative and the democrat-lite, who I will not call a Republican, will split the vote and the Democrat will win. The majority will lose to the minority, and it won’t even be necessary to steal votes to do it. The dead party, NY Republicans, would rather lose the seat than see a real fiscal conservative win.
If fiscal conservatives won, it would imperil the tax-and-spend spree. Neither party will stand for that.
Jazz Shaw is a *former* RINO? Really?
The proposition that conservatives are better off with a liberal Republican (“centrist”, my butt) than a conservative “who can’t win” is true only if you put the goals of the GOP ahead of the goals of conservatives. It’s like saying George Washington would have been better off if there had been fewer Redcoats and more Benedict Arnolds.
The GOP cares about the GOP, period. They only talk nice to conservatives when they need something, e.g., money and votes. When not under immediate pressure, they revert to the magisterial mode — e.g., throwing accusations of bigotry against conservatives when they opposed amnesty for illegal aliens.
(Republicans still think they get brownie points from the liberal media when they sound like liberals. Ask GWB and McCain how that worked out.)
Republicans play the same game every election year. Go to the RNC websites, and you’ll read inflammatory conservative commentary that could have been written by Rush Limbaugh, designed to whip up the conservatives juices. That’s Step 1. Step 2 is the pitch for money. And then Step 3 is to give it all to worthless RINOs. When elected, it’s time for Step 4, which is to ignore conservative issues until the next election year, and to surrender to the liberals without a fight on issue after issue.
And the braver ones, such as Lindsey Graham and John McCain, go so far as Step 6, which is to insult and belittle the conservatives without whom they could never have been elected.
It’s been over twenty years since we had a conservative Republican president, and it’s been parade of the RINOs ever since. How has that worked out?
According to John Fund, GWB actually bragged about not being a conservative, about “re-making the GOP.” How has that worked out?
The Republican Party is not the party that fights liberalism; it’s the party that enables liberalism. As for me, I’d rather face the enemy bayonets across the trench than have the bayonets of my “allies” sprouting from my sternum. Things are much clearer, anyway, when liberal policy is set by Democrats, without any “bipartisan” help. I’d much rather that liberal policy failures get blamed on liberalism than on conservatism just because Republicans didn’t have the cojones to fight hard enough against them.
“We Libertarians are going with the Moderate Republican this time around”
How about we promise you a “four-finger bag” of Maui to vote conservative. That usually motivates most Libertarians
We’ve gone the “moderate” way. Let’s see how it worked.
It was a moderate who voted to let the Baucus bill out of committee. Granted, it would have gotten out anyway, but that one vote lets the Obamacrats claim they have “bipartisan” support.
It was moderates in the Senate who voted for the so-called “stimulus.” Again, it would probably have passed, but again, now the Obamacrats can claim “bipartisanship.”
And our Republican candidate in 2008 was one of, if not the most moderate of Republicans, John McCain. How’s President McCain doing in his first 10 months on the job, folks?
Mr. Shaw, how come you conveniently forgot to mention that the Working Families Party is just a front group for ACORN?
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6965
I’ll bet if there are any Republicans they back, it only means that those RINOs are even to the left of the Democratic candidate in any given election. Yes, Democrat-Lite, that’s what we need to be, just the tax collectors for the nanny state, devoted to socialism too, just going there at a slower pace.
You RINOs can’t even get behind the major principles of conservatives: smaller government, lower taxes, more individual responsibility. Why don’t you just come out as a Democrat and get it over with?
Jazz,
“But what if the RNCC is simply more interested in winning?”
“But what if the RNCC is simply more interested in winning?”
Let’s see. We won with Arlen Specter, six years ago, over Pat Toomey. Right? We won six year and 12 years and 18 years ago with Olympia Snowe, right? We won with John McCain in the Presidential election, right? Jim Jeffords, Susan Collins, George Voinovich (the guy who cried when faced with the tough decision of voting for John Bolton for Ambassador to the UN).
We actually won with none of those. They have provided very little for Republicans, but lots of cover for Democrats (and even George Bush in his uninformed domestic policies).
We need Republicans who understand and can articulate the core values – commitment to the Constitution, a commitment to national security and sovereignty, support of our troops, freedom, private property, limited government, federal government with the states and localities having real areas of sovereignty, the rule of law, the sanctity of contracts, and a love of this country and all the good it has done. These are simple things and should be prerequistites of any Republican. You can’t be open minded about the absolute requirement for our elected officials to support the Constitution. And there is no doubt that TARP and the GM debacle (screwing the bondholders) was unconstitutional. Every Republican should be carrying a huge banner decrying all of the ongoing Unconstitutional actions. Passing bills that nobody has read and who knows that they won’t be written “after they pass”. How would we know? Every Republican without exception should be on record against all these actions.
I don’t know this candidate. But from what I have seen of her record, I would ask this question – what makes her a Republican, other than her desire to win in a historically Republican district. By what definition is she a Republican?
Kent Ramsay
No @@##$$!!!! RINOs!!!!! What don’t you people understand!? True Conservatives are sick of this s*** and will no longer go along with it “for the sake of the party”.Reform is coming, one way or another- it is up to you moderates and liberals( on both sides of the aisle) how it happens. . .
Here’s a thought — why not have the locals decide which one they’d prefer?
There’s this concept called a primary. Some parties seem to have them.
I would vote for a Hoffman over a Scazzofava, but I don’t live in that district. Perhaps the locals would prefer Scazzofava over Hoffman. The only way to tell for sure is put it to a vote. I have no problem with RINOs if that’s what their constituencies actually want.
Sorry Jazz, you are the problem.
I’ll never give my vote again to a Spector or McCain let alone the likes of Dede Scozzafava a full blown Leftist. The reason we haven’t fallen in love with the GOP is because they are bunch of liberal cowards and elitists who do not deserve our support. I’m from PA and if things are as bad you say and NY’ers won’t accept anything conservative then let’s split the country because we are headed for tryanny.
“In a close race with Democrat Bill Owen, a tea party conservative has complicated the chances of the centrist Republican”.
Your audacity to make such a statement is revolting. Centrist? Center of what? Furthermore, your disdain for the heroes of what started out as the “tea part movement” disgusts me. If our country can be saved intact, which seems unlikely, it will through these people.
“voters have failed to fall very deeply in love with the GOP even as they grow more and more disenchanted with the Obama administration”.
Did it ever occur to you its because they do not espouse a return to conservative or traditional American values that they can’t explode in the polls? We are getting tired of waiting for representation in the political arena. When are we going to get serious about fighting the MSM. The same media OUR elected officials cringe in fear of? No I’m not in love with the GOP. They don’t seem capable of fighting the Democrats, our domestic enemy.
9-12, at least 1 million plus decended upon Washington, peacefully, demanding an end of the systematic destruction of our country by our government and a return to constitutional law. You castigate them. Shame on you.
I’d rather take to the streets against these lawless criminals running our country and trampling our Constitution before supporting a Marxist Lite Obama agenda which is at best what Scozzafava supports.
“conservative ire is directed at party leadership which endorses a moderate over the potential local selection of a more fire-breathing conservative”.
Fire breathing conservatives? If you are referencing GOP politicians, you’re sick. Where are they? You can count them on your fingers and I hardly call them “firebreathing”.
You say that she’s only moderately pro abortion and supports the radical homosexual agenda. How nice. Just a minor detail. I guess I need not worry.
Her husband is a Leftist Obama supporter and a union thug. She supports racial discrimination against working and middle class white people. Don’t worry.
She supports taking away your rights as a worker through card check so her husband can beat the hell out you if you don’t vote properly. Don’t worry.
Newt Gigrich garnered approval for her from Al Sharpton and Nancy Pelosi. How nice. Yeah, go Newt! But don’t worry.
Well not only am I worried Jazz, I’m not taking it, pal.
No more. No more Lindsay Graham’s, Newt’s, Romney’s, Snowe’s, Collins and although I like her as a person, Sarah Palin is not what we need. For crying out loud, 2 weeks ago she said that Islam’s war against us and the Western civilization is NOT a clash of civilizations. PC nonsense. Then what is it? Take a look at what the “prophet” Muhammad had to say about that in the Al-Bukahri Hadiths. Our Muslim “friends” all want to emulate him.
We need new blood. We can’t keep putting our enemies in office under our flag. We need people who respect the Constitution. Regardless of what Obama says we are still, even though barely, a Judeo-Christian country. When we are no longer that we will cease to exist forever.
We must take to the streets or we will lose our liberty. Keep fighting and lets take control of our Party.
Having read a fair amount about the NY-23 race, there are a lot more concerns about Dede than being portrayed here. For example:
– According to some, perhaps due to her husband’s union ties, she is in favor of card check.
– There was no direct answer to the possibility of her changing parties after the election, only a “she’ll vote for Boehner for Speaker.”
– Scozaafave is probably the first “moderately pro-choice” candidate being given a Margaret Sanger award. Well, perhaps it was given by the Norwegian delegation.
Perhaps the RNCC and NRSC need to get out of the DC bubble and really talk to people who’ve had enough of this kind of “winning” approach.
We will take our country back, by any means….if we have to wage war with the Republican party then so be it…..RINO’s be dammed to the gates of hades…WE will not vote for a “moderate” ever again…to paraphrase a favorite saying by a administration full of maoists and marxists..we will make the “long march”…It’s time to stand up and be counted…Our country has been usurped by communists…let’s not mince words here….COMMUNISTS…what will YOU do about it…I will fight..
She is clearly a front. Willie Brown used to do this in California. He always owned 5-6 RINO’s in the legislature and used them as he needed.
Vote for the conservative win or lose. Card check is an insane policy and no republican should support it. Conservatives need to be purist or we are nothing. What is the point of winning the seat if the person will carry the water for the Unions. Caucusing with us is pointless.
maoists and communists need purged…All of them….
I’m fascinated by the NY-23rd race. I hope that Hoffman wins outright. According to the reporting, Scozzafava is dropping like a rock in the polls. Why?
If she’s such a moderate and centrist, and NY Republicans are more moderate and centrist that Republicans in the South, why is she dropping as people actually learn about her positions? If conservatives are such irrelevancies, why is Scozzafava trying to gain conservative support?
The GOP base hates the RINO GOP establishment. The RNC has been filled with the same cast of RINOs for 2 decades and have contributed exactly nothing to actually winning races. The more the GOP has gone down the RINO path, the worse the GOP has done politically.
The Scozzafava episode could be the RINO RNC’s Waterloo. Losers. Losers out. Losers go away. The GOP is creating the third party movement with their RINO, further to the left, than the Democrat, candidates.
Democrat Lite? Heck, they’re Pelosi Democrats. And Scozzafava is going to lose and its the fault of the GOP RINOs. Have the courage to face the truth or fade away boys.
Looks like Jazzy-boy is 0 for 12 (now 13).
She will be Pelosi’s token Republican bi-partisan support.
Shorter Jazz Shaw:
“Darn it, can’t you people just vote for who The Party tells you to? After all, The Party has the best interests of The Party and commentators like myself and David Frum at heart! Your independence is costing me my chance to go to the DC Correspondent’s Dinner next year, not to mention my golf invitation with Senator Kerry!”
If we support third party true conservatives over the “moderate” Republicans , we will lose seats for a few election cycles in the hopes that the GOP will wake up and start walking rightward.
If we support “moderate” Republicans over third party true conservatives we may win elections, but they won’t do us that much good and will provide ammunition for the argument that the GOP’s future lies in moderation rather than true conservatism.
We’re in a lose/lose situation. To me, the fight needs to be fought at in primaries and even moderate GOP candidates need to be supported in the instances where “fighting the good fight” during the primary didn’t work.
I live in NJ and am very disappointed with Christie…but I wish Dagget would finally bow out just the same. At this point, all he does is get Corzine reelected. If he truly loves the state, he’ll stop.
To hell with all you RINO scum! Your the reason I stayed home during the last election. Not one vote, not one penny, for the lesser of two evils ever again. If the people have to, we can take our country back by armed struggle, We’ve done it before, in case you’ve forgotten. Why do you think the sales of guns and ammo have sky rocketed in the last nine months; 10.000.000.000 rounds, yes that’s billions with a B, and if you Rino scum keep pushing the American people, you’ll be hiding under rocks beside your commie dhim friends when we come looking for you. Just a thought…
TwoNinerKilo, you lead into a good point.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
Consider, and vote accordingly.
And voting for the lesser of two evils is always a losing battle.
The Republican party proved themselves not worth voting for. Are the Democrats worse? Yes, in the short term. But by putting forth candidates worth voting for, even if they lose, has two positive effects in the long term: (1) all blame for the state of the country can be placed firmly at the feet of the Democrats; and (2) independents and moderates will understand that they have no choice but to vote for libertarian/conservative candidates, otherwise they’ll have to continue to live with Democrats driving the country into the ground.
There’s just no advantage to compromise and elect a RINO. In the long run, they’re just as bad as Democrats.
Like the gov of california and a few senators, (and former senators like pro health reform, Frist of Tennessee), she is out of step with the right wing of the republican party. However, this may be the twenty percent of the party which would be crucial for congressional gains next year. However, rino’s are not very popular within the party right now, but in New york and the mideast she could win because alot of the conservatives in that part of the country vote with their brains. But will the christian right support her? I do not think so. Good Luck to her !
If the choice it between two leftists, why go to the polls if I could spend that time more productively washing my car or sorting my sock drawer? Caucuses with the Republicans? Who cares if they vote with the Democrats?
Let it be clear what the Republican party stands for. That will make it clear what the Democratic party stands for. I know how most people will choose when the choice is clear.
The Dems will give us higher taxes, greater government power, poorer healthcare, higher unemployment, lower wages and standard of living, higher gas prices, high electricity costs, more industry moving to China, more racialism, less liberty. Don’t let them put a Republican fig leaf over any of this.
What do you think the Tea Party movement is all about? It is saying that we the people are fed up with this lesser of two evils crap. That’s what is in the WH now. This woman is in no way a Republican or a conservative and if it takes losing this seat in NY23 to prove the point so be it. She makes Specter look like Patrick Henry. What is wrong with the people in NY if they would even consider voting for her? As far as Steve above is concerned he always blasts Palin as has misquoted her statement on Islam many times before. Ignore him as well as Scoozafava. I have sent money to both opposing candidates, Rubio in Fl. and Hoffman in NY. Screw the RNC.
Doug Hoffman is a serious and yes, moderate man. He should have been on the GOP ticket, not Scozzafava. He would have won easily. That he polls at 23% already – an outsider in a three-way race – shows that he is hardly an implausible candidate. The local GOP grandees brought this on themselves.
CENTRIST Republican???????????????
Ditch the B!tch. She needs to run as a democrat.
You’re take on the WFP is hilarious, Jazz.
If I were in Scozzafava’s district, I wouldn’t concern myself with her positions on abortion (although anyone who likes Roe v Wade will ever give me pause and I believe Dede thinks abortion should always be legal–so much for your “reasonable restrictions”) or gay marriage (and doesn’t she support gay marriage, not just civil unions and that most nebulous of causes “gay rights?”).
No, I would concern myself with her positions on issues like Porkulous (for which she would have voted) and spending in general (she supports across-the-board increases in spending for everything except–get this–law enforcement). I would concern myself with the fact that even at this stage of the game, she’s “undecided” (on record anyhow) about racial and ethnic preferences but does support hate crimes legislation (and would include gays among the protected groups). I would concern myself that her only approach to education reform seemingly is to throw more money at the existing apparatus. And I certainly would concern myself with the fact that she’s a union stooge. No thanks.
I sent money to Hoffman’s campaign yesterday. Think I’ll send some more today.
And also, there is much speculation that once in office, Dede would pull a Specter. Right now, it’s just smoke, but there’s been an awful lot of it and you know what they say about smoke and fire.
I am registered GOP in the 23rd district and a Hoffman supporter because I believe Doug to be a true conservative and he will represent the district well. I’m sick of the NY GOP back room deals, being taken for granted by them and the expectation to toe the party line. The NY GOP has shifted left with the Dede nomination and in response, it has shifted many local conservatives to the right. I would rather run the risk of losing the seat backing the candidate that I feel would be best for the district, than back another RINO. Wise up GOP.
No more Jazz Shaw articles. Worthless crap and a waste of time. I’ll not bother to read them anymore. Enough’s enough! How do we get PJM to “uninvite” him?
The 23rd congressional district is mine. That is the one John McHugh vacated after, having delivered his betrayal of his constiuency (he was allegedly a Republican) to Obama and OPelosi, he took his payoff and got the hell out of town (He is the Sec’y of the Army these days. Must be that living next to Fort Drum is like staying at a Comfort Inn. He still doesn’t know Sh*t about the Army, but he sure feels smart.). He is one of the 7 RINOs who voted for cap and trade, if you’ll recall.
This rather repellant creature the RNC has put up is not a Republican either. It is an establishment NY apparatchik. We don’t want her, even at the expense of getting another Democrat tool in Pelosi’s stable(at least we can fire his dumb ass in the NEXT election).
One thing all you folks have to understand about Republican politics in NY. It ain’t the Grand Old Party. It is a special interest private club, that on the county level, is operated on a basis indistinguishable from a criminal enterprise. Frankly, one would be hard pressed to determine a single iota of difference between a NY Republican and a NY Democrat; perhaps the Republicans can boast that the last misdemeanor assualt conviction by a seated member of the state senate was a Democrat, but that is about it.
Conservatives don’t bleeping RINO!
There, now I’ve said it.
“…a bit to the left of even traditionally RINO-leaning New York Republicans…”
That’s a bit like saying Attila the Hun was just a bit more violent than Sugar Ray Leonard.
One cannot be just a bit pro choice. Lives are involved here. Millions of them. Change all the words you care to, but dead is dead.
So Dede should find another line of work. Perhaps the SEIU could find a nice consulting position for her.
Absurd. So we have to elect a democrat who calls themselves a republican? What good does that do the conservative cause. Purge all the RINOs. Don’t vote for anyone less than a true conservative. They will learn but it may take the hard way for it to get through the thick skulls.
I suggest we also purge Shaw. How long will we have to suffer the ignorants that tell us to settle for something less than what is needed to straighten out this once great country.
DOUG H Amen brother.But let’s do it right! third party NOW!
Mr Shaw: Well done,Disinformation disseminated, mission accomplished.George Soros,the Bushes,and McCain will be pleased!How much are they paying you to infiltrare PJM?
Don’t live in that district but anyone who DailyKos endorses is not for me!
Oh, Wow! She’ll caucus with the Republicans! Praise the Lord! And while you’re at it, pass the amunition, so we can save Dede the trouble of stabbing us in the back. Jazz, haven’t you learned anything from the Arlan Specter debacle? What use is a RINO? What use is Olympia Snowe or Susan Collins–or Lindsay Graham, for that matter? You still think Republicans can win as “liberal lite”. That’s why I won’t donate one dime to the RNC, or RSCC until they pull their collective head out of their backside and realize just CALLING oneself a Republican does not MAKE one a Republican.
“Would you really rather see a Democrat in that chair?” Dede would be like a Democrat in the chair… The RNC needs to understand that its base is tired of RINO’s. No more Bob Dole, John McCain middle of the road types. I have played your game since Bush Sr. and I’m not playing it anymore. I don’t want Charlie Christ or Arnold – I want to vote for a real conservative. Bush Jr spent money like a Democrat so what’s the difference? The so-called moderates hated him so much they voted for Obama. Yeah, nice plan. It has worked so well…
If the Republican party wants to win us back, have Ms. Scozzafava bow out of the race so a real conservative has a chance to win. We know they won’t because they put party above country. Unfortunately, it’s the Democratic party that RINO’s put above everything else.