Satellite Photos Support Testimony That Iraqi WMD Went to Syria
Ha’aretz has revived the mystery surrounding the inability to find weapons of mass destruction stockpiles in Iraq, the most commonly cited justification for Operation Iraqi Freedom and one of the most embarrassing episodes for the United States. Satellite photos of a suspicious site in Syria are providing new support for the reporting of a Syrian journalist who briefly rocked the world with his reporting that Iraq’s WMD had been sent to three sites in Syria just before the invasion commenced.
The newspaper reveals that a 200 square-kilometer area in northwestern Syria has been photographed by satellites at the request of a Western intelligence agency at least 16 times, the most recent being taken in January. The site is near Masyaf, and it has at least five installations and hidden paths leading underneath the mountains. This supports the reporting of Nizar Nayouf, an award-winning Syrian journalist who said in 2004 that his sources confirmed that Saddam Hussein’s WMDs were in Syria.
One of the three specific sites he mentioned was an underground base underneath Al-Baida, which is one kilometer south of Masyaf. This is a perfect match. The suspicious features in the photos and the fact that a Western intelligence agency is so interested in the site support Nayouf’s reporting, showing that his sources in Syria did indeed have access to specific information about secret activity that is likely WMD-related. Richard Radcliffe, one of my co-writers at WorldThreats.com, noticed that Masyaf is located on a road that goes from Hamah, where there is an airfield sufficient to handle relatively large aircraft, into Lebanon and the western side of the Bekaa Valley, another location said to house Iraqi weapons.
It seems to be commonly accepted that Iraq did not have WMDs at all. The intelligence was obviously flawed, but the book has not been closed on what actually happened. The media blasted the headline that Charles Duelfer, the head of the Iraq Survey Group tasked with finding out if Saddam had WMDs, concluded that a transfer did not occur. In reality, his report said they were “unable to complete its investigation and is unable to rule out the possibility that WMD was evacuated to Syria before the war” due to the poor security situation.
Although no conclusion was made, Duelfer has since said that he is “convinced” that no WMD went to Syria. He is a competent and credible individual, but there is evidence that key information on this possibility was not received by the Iraq Survey Group, which had many of its own problems.
On February 24, 2009, I went to see a talk Duelfer gave at the Free Library of Philadelphia to promote his book. He admitted there were some “loose ends” regarding the possibility that Iraqi WMD went to Syria, but dismissed them. Among these “loose ends,” Duelfer said, was the inability to track down the Iraqis who worked for a company connected to Uday Hussein that sources said had driven “sensitive” material into Syria. A Pentagon document reveals that an Iraqi dissident reported that 50 trucks crossed the border on March 10, 2003, and that his sources in Syria confirmed they carried WMD. These trucks have been talked about frequently and remain a mystery.
During the question-and-answer period and during a follow-up interview, Duelfer made several interesting statements to me that reinforced my confidence that such a transfer occurred, although we can not be sure of the extent of it.
General Georges Sada, the former second-in-command of the Iraqi Air Force, claimed in his 2006 book that he knew two Iraqi pilots that flew WMD into Syria over the summer of 2002, which came before a later shipment on the ground. I asked Duelfer if Nizar Nayouf or the two Iraqi pilots were spoken with.
“I did not interview the pilots nor did I speak with the Syrian journalist you mentioned,” he said. “We were inundated with WMD reports and could not investigate them all. … To narrow the problem, we investigated those people and places we knew would have either been involved or aware of regime WMD activities.”
He then told me that the lack of testimony about such dealings is what convinced him that “a lot of material went to Syria, but no WMD.” He cited the testimony of Naji Sabri, the former Iraqi foreign minister, in particular.
“I knew him very well, and I had been authorized to make his life a lot better, or a lot worse,” he told me.





I predict that the ‘case closed’ on Iraq (not having WMD’s) will one day prove as fallacious as the ‘case closed’ which denied that Islamists were behind the Oklahoma City bombing.They absolutely were.
ANY rational/impartial personal who carefully sifts through the evidence presented by Janya Davis in ‘The Third Terrorist’ understands what went down.They realize that the white militia narrative was fabricated to fit the paradigm needed, for political purposes, DESPITE all the damnable proof to the contrary.
It should come as no surprise, that ALL the evidence which proves that Iraqi WMD’s are now buried in Syria, will be dismissed in the same manner by powerful players in Washington.
It will be the above political manipulations which will be responsible for further catastrophes to befall the US.
Hint-HIGHLY compensated, VERY powerful Washington players are being paid off by Arab interests.They are running the behind the scene show.
Adina,
I also read the book by Janya Davis. It amazes me that I have never heard even the conservative commentators speak of the book. It is not some crazy “conspiracy theory”. She simply lays out the information as you would expect from a standard journalist. I agree with you 100% – there was an Iraqi connection. 9/11 would not be so surprising to so many people if they had read her book.
The major media in the US are still trying to frame everything as “home-grown” individuals who are plotting against the US.
Your statement with regard to WMDs and Sadam Hussein makes perfect sense. I don’t know if it’s about payoffs, but perhaps I am naive.
Ismell a zionist dead rat behind such silly claim. Israel is the only benefactor from Iraq’s tragedy and is the main force behind spewing equisition all over. To find the truth about Iraq war one must check with AIPAC.
I knew it. I knew it, I knew it.
Bush screwed around wasting a year with the United Nations.
That gave Cheney and Rumsfeld all the time they needed to fool Powell and Blair, equip Syria with nuclear weapons and set Saddam Hussein up for an Internationally coordinated military sucker punch.
No wonder Obama hasn’t been able to figure out what needs to be done. He’s been bowing down to and kissing the wrong rear ends for over 16 months now.
Hell, there’s even a chance that we can save our relationship with Israel now.
I see this as an indirect result of Bush trusting Putin after their meeting in the summer of 2001. All of Bush’s later moves in the ME until about 2004 were predicated on the belief that Russia would help, at least secretly, and at a minimum would not assist our enemies. The Russian assistance in destroying and hiding WMD (search “Operation Sarindar”) in the winter of 2002-3 was devastating to our overall war effort.
I liked Bush, and voted for him twice, but the biggest error of his presidency was right out of the box, looking into Putin’s eyes and trusting him.
The whole lookng him in the eyes and trusting him I forgive because the press asked him that while Putin was standing right there.Should W have said No not at all?
Don’t forget that Jay Rockefeller, by his own admission, traveled to the Middle East in 2002 and tipped off Assad, among others, that invasion was a certainty.
Iraq had WMD and satellite imagery shows them being moved out of weapon depots to Syria. Georges Sada (#2 in Saddams AF) knows who when and how they ere moved to Syria.
Stop drinking CNN kool-aid and wake up.
Perhaps actual WMDs were not sent to Syria, but components for WMDs went to Syria? This could especially be true for biological weapons, such as anthrax or smallpox. Maybe Saddam Hussein didn’t have enough time to finish making his weapons, but he did have enough loose materials to eventually make them?
Maybe that’s why Syria is holding on to them, because one day it plans to have its own WMDs and now it has the components to make them? My bet is that all of the materials Saddam Hussein had to make biological weapons are now in Syria and some nation had better find out (and quickly) what that country actually has. A war between Israel, Syria, and Iran, along with their proxies Hamas and Hezbollah, is about to take place, especially if Iran gets nuclear weapons. The West MUST know what Syria has to prevent an even bigger catastrophe in both the Middle East and in the rest of the world.
Remember, if Syria does have the components for WMDs, it could easily give them to some Islamic terrorist organization, such as Hezbollah, and then just deny it did so and say that the terrorists got the materials from some supply depot in Iraq, which is where they were actually created. The world would then place the blame for supplying the terrorists on rogue elements in a semi-lawless nation rather than blaming Syria, the country that actually gave the terrorists the weapons in the first place. Is anyone at the CIA reading this?
LS 46,
I agree with what you have stated. To add to your post, Syria is not oil wealthy and therefore cannot build a substantial WMD (particularly nukes) program without assistance from outside. I would tend to believe that if it is true that WMD components were transported to Syria they were set aside, as you suggest, until someone came along to help them piece it together (such as North Korea?). Russia may be too expensive for the Syrian budget, but a cash strapped and desperate North Korea may fit the bill nicely from the Syrian perspective.
One other thought, I think we have to ask why Saddam Hussein was developing his nuke program in the late 1970s? It started as the Osirak reactor but there were clearly moves by Hussein to enrich uranium from this reactor. And since it has been fairly established that Hussein intended to develop nukes, who was the intended target of this deterrence, if it was indeed inteded as a deterrence at all? The reason why Isreal attacked Osirak, and the tacit reason why we invaded Iraq in 2003 was to prevent exactly what you have stated, that any weapons developed by a despotic regime are most likely to end up in the hands of terrorists organizations who will serve as a proxy delivery system. Unfortunately the Bush administration did a piss poor job of conveying this message.
Don’t get you knickers in a knot. CIA is probably still trying to understand why Turkey was given ten days to massacre the Kurds on their western border before Desert Storm or why the annihilation of the republican guard tanks was halted when tank operators were plainly heard speaking Russian.
After these scenarios a delay of weeks between announcing and beginning the current engagement in Iraq to clean house should be totally understandable.
Care to document any of these fantasies?
Debka makes a better and specific disclosure on Iraqi WMD to Syria: before or at the time of the 2003: “destabilization of Iraq/limit Iraqi oil exports” campaign initiated by the USA.
What a crock of absolute nothing. There were never any WMD’s aside from decaying remnants from the Iran-Iraq war. The US had plenty of spy satellites targeting Iraq, as well as all the other usual spook stuff, and if there had been a single legitimate indicator that Hussein still had active WMD stockpiles or an active program, we would have heard of that instead of all the colossal, lying BS we got instead.
Way to keep an open mind. That’s what I like about you guys. I’d almost be willing to bet that you have no such qualms with believing that Bush or the Mossad was behind 9/11. Anyway, look into some real intelligence reports or ever read a few spy novels. Thay all say satellite surveillance cannot replace boots on the ground.
As for the rest of us, we kind of suspected this all along.
Once brainwashed. Always brainwashed. WMD’s are everywhere, my friend, and any country that wants to develop them can develop them. In the French and Indian War, Amherst talked about giving blankets out of the small pox ward to the Indians as a war measure (though there is no proof he ever needed to do it, what with the risk of blow back). Do you think that capability is beyond any of our enemies now, 250 years later? Making and stockpiling WMD’s is not the issue. Saddam to the end had at least 12 WMD scientists charged with getting more under the pain of torture if they were ever given the window of opportunity to do so. (Fortunately the opportunity was withheld from them, not by you but by Bush). Finding stockpiles is irrelevant. Having an enemy with the belief that he can use WMD’s to his advantage, that is the problem and you brainwashed people will never get your clinically clean brains around that concept. As VD Hansen says, deterrence if the issue, not the availability of weapons.
Actually, I think either Henry Hamilton or Amherst did just that.
BC,
Don’t be too quick to rule this as BS. Spy satellite intel is not as effective in intelligence gathering as we like to think it is. The US has relied too heavily on photo reconaissance and not enough on HUMINT. Satellite imagery did absolutely nothing to expose the Soviet Union’s offensive bioweapons program they secretly ran for years after we signed a treaty with them to stop. Don’t believe me? Go find out who Ken Alibek is and determine for yourself if his story is BS. My point is that hiding a weapons program is a piece of cake, regardless of all the spy satellites we have orbiting the earth. It takes feet on the ground to confirm the photos (and even then it is not that reliable).
Also, if Saddam Hussein did have WMD components that he wanted protected for future use (not the crappy leftovers that you point out–which by the way may have served as a perfect ruse), Syria was a logical choice for their relocation as both countries were ideologically tied to the Ba’ath Party. Who knows, maybe this is Saddam’s revenge upon us all? He may be laughing in Hell knowing that someday his material will be used to annihilate Israel or attack the US.
I do find one aspect of this Syria tie interesting. On September 6, 2007 the Israeli Airforce attacked a site in Syria claiming that it contained nuclear material. Although the alleged material is said to have come from North Korea, this does (or should) raise questions. Is North Korea really trying to help Syria start a nuclear program? Can Syria afford to start a nuke program from scratch? Did Syria get a head start with materials obtained from Iraq? Could North Korea be helping Syria organize materials it gained from Iraq for future use? Keep in mind that one does not need a nuclear arsenal of thousands to be an effective pain in the butt, it only takes one nuke to really screw things up in the world.
I tend to agree with others who have stated that the history is still out on this subject. I will opt to keep things ‘open-ended’ for quite a while until evidence proves conclusively one way or the other.
Two additional points: First, there’s a BIG difference between seeing something happening and being able to do something about it. The last thing we want to do is to drop a bomb on a chemical munitions stockpile, especially if it’s anywhere near a city, and one would imagine that it’s pretty heavily guarded. Secondly, given that the stockpiles were evacuated to Syria, we only want to fight one war at a time, and Syria is one of those countries that we’d rather not antagonize at the present time. I rather imagine that we’re keeping a very close watch on those sites in Syria.
We have satellites. Yes, and what did we learn from those satellites? Photos taken from those satellites show caravans of trucks going from Iraq into Syria just before the war. The only evidence we have as to what was in those trucks are the statements of numerous Iraqis that they were transporting WMD.
You of course are politically motivated to believe that the trucks carried something else. What? Your comment is a crock.
BC,
Every day that goes by, G.W. begins to look better, and your Chicago Messiah worse. As your politics fails you, so do your past lies and propaganda.
Sucks to be a lefty anymore, doesn’t it?
BC: And we know you are the last word on Iraqi WMD because you have been watching CNN (terrorist ministry of propaganda) non stop! And once you glanced at Fox and Raw; and “they said”, and your hair dresser definitely let you know! And look, when NPR speaks liberals listen!
Like NPR is the place for a full debate between the radical left and the ultra left!
Thanks BC for your insight and quoting your sources and your analytics; no really you should be on msnbc!
I thought everyone already knew that the typical Fox News viewer enjoys being lied to.
It’s not that we enjoy being lied to, “Fox Snooze”. It’s just that we enjoy a laugh at your expense when you try out cheap, obvious lies, made more humorous in the fervor you actually believe in them.
Christ almighty.
UNSCOM’s final report stated quite boldly that Iraq had WMD stockpiles when they were kicked out in 1998- both those for which they had documentary and/or forensic evidence but hadn’t tracked down, and also actual weapons stockpiles the inspectors had found but were unable to destroy before they left. They placed video cameras on those sites, but of course the Iraqis promptly removed them.
So where’d they go? Did they vanish into thin air?
Nah, forget it. You’re one of those blinkered “Bush lied” drones who is still claiming, without reading its final report or Kay’s congressional testimony, that the ISG “didn’t find anything.”
I remember watching a rather interesting PBS (surprise!) documentary showing pretty conclusively how Saddam was giving the UN inspection teams the run-around before the war. He’d forbid them from going into certain sites for weeks, and then when he did let them in – aw shucks, the place is clean. One big shell game.
BTW, did anybody notice that North Korea’s nuclear program wound up just after we invaded? Three guesses as to where that technology went to!
Let’s not forget two tons of yellow cake that was recovered after the war.
I thought it was more like five tons-I could be wrong, though.
“UNSCOM’s final report…” Exactly!! That just got buried in the MSM campaign to proved that “Bush lied.”
You’re talking about the same intelligence apparatus that helped American presidents come up with things like the Bay of Pigs invasion, the Vietnam war, and installing the Shah of Iran? The apparatus that predicted the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait? The one that expert advice on the political situation in Somalia? The one that prevented the 9/11 attacks? And the one that was absolutely positive beyond any doubt whatsoever that Iraq had NO WMDs? I wish I had your confidence in the absolute infallibility of our strategic recon programs and spooks.
Ever hear of a Saddam henchman known as “Chemical Ali”? How do you suppose he got his name, smart guy?
So the evil US government lied about WMDs in Iraq. They then invaded because of those WMDs that they knew were not there. So, this evil, lying government then is too stupid to even drop a few canister of mustard gas around to protect the lie.
BC, either they lied and then “forgot” to lie again, or Saddam shipped his stocks out of the country.
Which makes more sense?
Holy guacamole, Batman, The Wingnut Gang are up to their old tricks. I’m just going to repost a Usenet comment I made years ago that kinda applies here (although with updated links for the CIA refs):
****
What’s to speed up? All the *real* evidence to date indicates
that Hussein’s WMD program went away in the mid-90′s, but
that he tried to make Iran at least think that he still had them.
The Iraq Survey Group report said that Iraq’s WMD program was
basically destroyed in 1991 and that Saddam ended his nuclear
program after the 1991 Gulf War. And in a March 2005
addendum, Duelfer added “it was unlikely that an official transfer
of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Survey_Group
https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/index.html
While Hussein supported the Palestinian terrorists and made
a lot of noise about being an enemy of Israel, his real concern
was always about Iran. Him wanting nukes was all about
offsetting what he saw as Iran’s advantage there. This was
in the “nuclear” part in that CIA link above:
https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/chap4.html
To quote:
“Nevertheless, after 1991, Saddam did express his intent to
retain the intellectual capital developed during the Iraqi Nuclear
Program. Senior Iraqis-several of them from the Regime’s
inner circle-told ISG they assumed Saddam would restart a
nuclear program once UN sanctions ended.
“Saddam indicated that he would develop the weapons
necessary to counter any Iranian threat.”
In order to understand what was up with Hussein and all the
WMD charges, you have to look back at the Iran-Iraq war and
who supplied Iraq with weapons, including biological WMD’s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/arming_iraq.php
Our Keyhole spy satellites can pick out someone p*ssing in
the street — they would have certainly picked out Hussein
sneaking stuff to Syria and where they went to. The reason
you don’t hear the Bush administration touting all this new
right wing WMD nonsense by Stephen Hayes and the like is
because it is nonsense. They won’t discourage it though
because it keeps conservatives/right-wingers falsely hopeful
by proxy that maybe not everything told to them about why
Iraq was invaded is just a big fat lie.
But you know what? Everything Bush and his people said was
and still is just a big fat lie.
-BC
****
Lefties ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS, have to start in with the name calling (i.e. ‘wingnut gang’). It’s pathetic.
Yup, I sure have a lot of confidence in reports put together by our government. By the way, didn’t the CIA say that the Iranians stopped their nuclear weapons program years ago? Wasn’t that around 2007 or 2008? I guess the CIA is WRONG AGAIN when it comes to evaluating the WMD capabilities of our enemies, right? I wouldn’t put too much faith in any government report, because they’re generally based on old (or even false or exaggerated) information. Even the Duelfer Report said that it couldn’t account for all of the WMD materials in Iraq and even some old WMD weapons (though not a huge amount, but enough for a terrorist attack) were found in Iraq after the invasion. Remember, these are some of the same people who didn’t see the fall of the Soviet Union coming, 9/11 coming, and thought that it was a “slam dunk” that there were WMDs in Iraq. When it comes to gathering intelligence, I think I’ll place a lot more faith in what the Mossad has to say rather than our own CIA.
But what I really like about you, BC, is that, like all far-left liberals, you’re always absolutely sure about your position. There is never any room for doubt and you always claim to be right and the rest of the world is always wrong. Twenty years ago, nobody dreamed that anybody could put a truck bomb into the World Trade Center, but they were wrong. Fortunately, the buildings withstood that shock in 1993. But surely nobody would ever dream of attacking those buildings again, right? Hmmm, then there was 9/11. And everybody was so very sure that terrorism was just something that happened overseas. Even the “brilliant” Bill Clinton believed that. Guess that was wrong too. And you guys just knew that Bush was lying that Iran was working on a nuclear bomb, yet now the UN (or the IAEA) says that Iran has enough nuclear materials for at least two bombs (and God knows how many “dirty” radiological bombs).
I’m just wondering what people like you will be so “certain” of tomorrow, just to have people like us have to pick up the pieces when people like you are proven wrong (again).
BC,
You wrote:
“And in a March 2005 addendum, Duelfer added ‘it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place.’”
Here is the full quote:
Based on the evidence available at present, ISG
judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of
WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place. However,
ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement
of limited WMD-related materials.
You certainly cherry-picked that source–that is a big “however” in the last sentence. The ISG thinks it is “unlikely” that WMDs found their way to Syria, but they don’t rule it out. In other words, they are not 100% certain of their findings.
From the report you cited at https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/addenda.pdf
The investigation centered on the possibility that
WMD materials were moved to Syria. As is obvious
from other sections of the Comprehensive Report,
Syria was involved in transactions and shipments of
military and other material to Iraq in contravention
of the UN sanctions. This indicated a flexibility with
respect to international law and a strong willingness
to work with Iraq—at least when there was considerable
profi t for those involved. Whether Syria received
military items from Iraq for safekeeping or other
reasons has yet to be determined. There was evidence
of a discussion of possible WMD collaboration initiated
by a Syrian security officer, and ISG received
information about movement of material out of Iraq,
including the possibility that WMD was involved. In
the judgment of the working group, these reports were
sufficiently credible to merit further investigation.
ISG was unable to complete its investigation and
is unable to rule out the possibility that WMD was
evacuated to Syria before the war. It should be
noted that no information from debriefi ng of Iraqis
in custody supports this possibility. ISG found no
senior policy, program, or intelligence officials who
admitted any direct knowledge of such movement of
WMD. Indeed, they uniformly denied any knowledge
of residual WMD that could have been secreted to
Syria.
Nevertheless, given the insular and compartmented
nature of the Regime, ISG analysts believed there
was enough evidence to merit further investigation.
It is worth noting that even if ISG had been able to
fully examine all the leads it possessed, it is unlikely
that conclusive information would have been found.
At best, barring discovery of original documentary
evidence of the transfer, reports or sources may have
been substantiated or negated, but firm conclusions on
actual WMD movements may not be possible.
Based on the evidence available at present, ISG
judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of
WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place. However,
ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement
of limited WMD-related materials.
Also from the CIA page you cite (Note for the Comprehensive Report with Addendum):
“Some uncertainties remain and some information will continue to emerge about the WMD programs or the former Regime. Reports cited in the Comprehensive Report concerning the possible movement of WMD or WMD materials from Iraq prior to the war remain unresolved. With the recent increase in security, planned efforts to investigate this issue were suspended. ISG developed an investigation plan that may be pursued when the security situation improves.”
BC, the source you quoted does not support your conclusion that the presence of WMDs in Iraq was all a lie. Accoring to the report you cite, there is no conclusive evidence one way or the other, but at the time there was certainly enough evidence for the ISG look into the allegations and take them seriously. It is also evident that the ISG faced tremendous difficulties in investigating Iraq’s WMD program. So the door is open to possibilities, even the possibility that Iraq did transfer WMD materials to Syria. Considering today’s Pajamas article by Ryan Mauro, it may be worth another look to see what really happened. Time to stop using your dated Usenet article and move on to greener pastures.
BC,
You wrote:
“And in a March 2005 addendum, Duelfer added ‘it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place.’”
Here is the full quote:
Based on the evidence available at present, ISG
judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of
WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place. However,
ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement
of limited WMD-related materials.
You certainly cherry-picked that source–that is a big “however” in the last sentence. The ISG thinks it is “unlikely” that WMDs found their way to Syria, but they don’t rule it out. In other words, they are not 100% certain of their findings.
From the report you cited at https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/addenda.pdf
The investigation centered on the possibility that
WMD materials were moved to Syria. As is obvious
from other sections of the Comprehensive Report,
Syria was involved in transactions and shipments of
military and other material to Iraq in contravention
of the UN sanctions. This indicated a flexibility with
respect to international law and a strong willingness
to work with Iraq—at least when there was considerable
profi t for those involved. Whether Syria received
military items from Iraq for safekeeping or other
reasons has yet to be determined. There was evidence
of a discussion of possible WMD collaboration initiated
by a Syrian security officer, and ISG received
information about movement of material out of Iraq,
including the possibility that WMD was involved. In
the judgment of the working group, these reports were
sufficiently credible to merit further investigation.
ISG was unable to complete its investigation and
is unable to rule out the possibility that WMD was
evacuated to Syria before the war. It should be
noted that no information from debriefi ng of Iraqis
in custody supports this possibility. ISG found no
senior policy, program, or intelligence officials who
admitted any direct knowledge of such movement of
WMD. Indeed, they uniformly denied any knowledge
of residual WMD that could have been secreted to
Syria.
Nevertheless, given the insular and compartmented
nature of the Regime, ISG analysts believed there
was enough evidence to merit further investigation.
It is worth noting that even if ISG had been able to
fully examine all the leads it possessed, it is unlikely
that conclusive information would have been found.
At best, barring discovery of original documentary
evidence of the transfer, reports or sources may have
been substantiated or negated, but firm conclusions on
actual WMD movements may not be possible.
Based on the evidence available at present, ISG
judged that it was unlikely that an official transfer of
WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place. However,
ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement
of limited WMD-related materials.
Also from the CIA page you cite (Note for the Comprehensive Report with Addendum):
“Some uncertainties remain and some information will continue to emerge about the WMD programs or the former Regime. Reports cited in the Comprehensive Report concerning the possible movement of WMD or WMD materials from Iraq prior to the war remain unresolved. With the recent increase in security, planned efforts to investigate this issue were suspended. ISG developed an investigation plan that may be pursued when the security situation improves.”
BC, the source you quoted does not support your conclusion that the presence of WMDs in Iraq was all a lie. Accoring to the report you cite, there is no conclusive evidence one way or the other, but at the time there was certainly enough evidence for the ISG look into the allegations and take them seriously. It is also evident that the ISG faced tremendous difficulties in investigating Iraq’s WMD program. So the door is open to possibilities, even the possibility that Iraq did transfer WMD materials to Syria. Considering today’s Pajamas article by Ryan Mauro, it may be worth another look to see what really happened. Time to stop using your dated Usenet article and move on to greener pastures.
The core issue of all this is that Bush at no point had any real evidence whatsoever to justify his WMD claims; ergo, he lied. That bit I left off, “However, ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement of limited WMD-related materials,” is no more than worthless speculation along the lines of “Well, you’re never 100% sure about anything….” No — that’s like saying it’s OK to break into someone’s house to arrest him because while there was no evidence of guilt, there was still a theoretical possibility that such evidence might still exist. You would not tolerate for a second this sort of bizarre “reasoning” domestically, so why would you think it would be OK overseas?
That Usenet post of mine is from 2006 — here is some updated info:
The U.S. intelligence community buckled sooner in 2002 than previously reported to Bush administration pressure for data justifying an invasion of Iraq, according to a documents posting on the Web today by National Security Archive senior fellow John Prados.
The documents suggest that the public relations push for war came before the intelligence analysis, which then conformed to public positions taken by Pentagon and White House officials. For example, a July 2002 draft of the “White Paper” ultimately issued by the CIA in October 2002 actually pre-dated the National Intelligence Estimate that the paper purportedly summarized, but which Congress did not insist on until September 2002.
A similar comparison between a declassified draft and the final version of the British government’s “White Paper” on Iraq weapons of mass destruction adds to evidence that the two nations colluded in the effort to build public support for the invasion of Iraq. Dr. Prados concludes that the new evidence tends to support charges raised by former White House press secretary Scott McClellan and by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence in its long-delayed June 2008 “Phase II” report on politicization of intelligence.
I would be derelict to not point out that the reason for the “long-delayed” release of the “Phase II” report is sleazeball Pat Roberts, who was chairing the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at the time.
Man, what is it about lefties and there need to hate those they disagree with.
Prior to the war, Bush did have evidence, it was sufficient evidence that every intelligence service in the western world agreed that Saddam had active WMD programs.
After giving Saddam a year of warning, the invasion wasn’t able to find enough evidence of these programs to convince you, therefore Bush was lying all along.
BC, you said, “The core issue of all this is that Bush at no point had any real evidence whatsoever to justify his WMD claims; ergo, he lied.” This is the same tired old song from the far-left loons. Can’t you just give it a rest? Bush lied and people died, right? Do yourself a favor and get your head out of those useless far-left web sites, like the Daily Kos and all those other toilets that spew out misinformation that people like you are always so ready to believe.
Look, champ, I’ll say this one last time. If Bush lied, then so did Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, and just about every other Democrat in Congress from the 1990s to our eventual invasion of Iraq. They ALL believed Saddam Hussein had WMDs. Bush didn’t have to do that much convincing. Even Ted Kennedy, of all people, believed that Hussein had WMDs at the start of the Iraq War. Now, you could say that that belief was based on faulty CIA intelligence, but like I said before, that was the fault of the CIA and NOT Bush. It was the same intelligence that Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Hillary Clinton ALL saw and believed as well. So if you’ve got a complaint, take it to our lousy intel agency, NOT George W. Bush. This is the standard lie the far left repeats again, and again, and again. And, like the old saying goes, if you repeat a lie long enough people start to believe it, right? Do me a favor and stop parroting MoveOn.Org talking points. It really bores me.
To Libertyship46; No, it’s you and the other Sherlocks who need to give that whole “If Bush lied, then Clinton, et al lied” steaming pile of BS a rest. Clinton, nor any other responsible President, would never have invaded another without being damn sure there actually good justification, and good evidence and intel to support it. It’s one thing for you to think your neighbor down the street is up to no good because you don’t like like him personally, you saw some behavior you thought was suspicious, and you heard certain rumors; it’s a whole ‘nother matter if the police end up busting into his house with guns blazing without “knowing” more than you did.
Iraq’s WMD program was primarily destroyed in 1991 and whatever remnants there was of it went during Clinton’s term, most notably the destruction of the Al Hakam facility in 1996. In Bush’s case, thanks to the invasion of Afghanistan, the return of the UN inspectors, and covert special ops missions, Bush had tons more resources for intelligence gathering in that area than Clinton ever had, and collectively it was contradicting pretty every single claim made by Bush, his crew, and his proxies in the right wing media.
Therefore Bush and his people lied, lied, and then lied some more on a scale that’s moronic to compare to whatever anyone else may have said.
Why do you feel the need to lie about things that are so easily checked?
There was very good evidence of all the things that Bush claimed.
That’s been proven time after time.
BC.
What is it you gain, by helping religious fanatics bend on your on own death? Why is that so urgent for you? Do you think they will spare you, because you help them? Have you ever heard a Muslim fanatic take a Kafir in defense on any issue anywhere? Even assuming you’re right that Bush lied on purpose, he’s still on your team. He was the commander if chief of your country. Why do you side with the enemy, when the enemy doesn’t care about you? Can you appreciate the fact that these people that you attack non stop actually want to protect you? Can you appreciate that there actually is a reason to be concerned that religious fanatics stockpile weaponized chemicals? Do you see any point in being suspicious about a crazy dictator like Saddam Hussein might lie about his WMD’s? What exactly are trying to achieve?
To JL: The real question is why did Bush feel the need to abandon his chase of Bin Laden and to punish in general the people behind 9/11 in order to pursue a policy concocted by idiots that had nothing whatsoever with either 9/11 or US security? By the time Obama took office and immediately refocused on getting al-Qaeda and their supporters, more than 7 1/2 years had elapsed, Iraq had become a bloody joke (don’t kid yourselves about “The Surge” — it’s still very debatable if it actually “worked.”)
To MarkTheGreat” Why do you feel the need to lie about things that are so easily checked?
You’re confused — I’m the one with the links to CIA reports and such; it is you and the others like you who are the liars here. Why don’t you offer up some evidence for your side that can be “easily checked” and see what happens.
What exactly did you gain with all this trash talk. Did you hope to make someone look bad, or did you hope to make them feel bad? Were you actually trying to convince someone about your point of view? I often wonder why people post such trash talk. I feel it gains nothing. If it makes you feel good perhaps you need counseling.
Why don’t they declassify the documents and personnel about more that was in Iraq? It is pretty comical that Mr Openandtransparentever hasn’t gone after GWB with both barrels, I seem to recall him spewing at one point about looking into things… I bet he did, and guess what? He expanded the Patriot Act, wanna guess why? Some stuff is missing.
They then invaded because of those WMDs that they knew were not there.
Sigh. Tom, go and look again for the justification for the UN military action. The Coalition did not invade “just for WMD’s.” They were a part of the reason – specifically keeping them out of the hands of terrorists, but not the full justification.
Bush did NOT attack Iraq because of WMDs or any of the reasons he spouted out.
He attacked for one and only reason…a personal reason…and he had all the so called facts and media hype set up to do it…the reason was: He could NOT stand that Saddam showed the rest of the world what s loser and idiot Bush’s dadda really was…. and because he could not stand it, he destroyed him….nothing to do with WMDs and all to do with personal revenge and hatred.
It is time to drag Bush before the world court for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Don’t forget the trials for the majority in Congress who voted to authorize military action…
what an idiotic thing to say and reveal such ignorance.
Do you really hate America so much that you would like to see it shamed on the world stage? Do you live in the United States? If you think that a past president tried for war crimes would not have a devastating effect on this country you need to think again. If you just hate baby bush so much you wish him destroyed you need help.
The surest sign that the intel credibly led Bush to believe the WMDs were there is the fact that we didn’t find any. If he went in for ulterior reasons, knowing full well there weren’t any there, he would have planned ahead. WMDs would have been smuggled in and “found,” thereby justifying the whole affair.
It wasn’t just us, other governments believed the intel as well…as did all of the Democrat leadership that publicly endorsed it but later came out hypocritically condemning the administration for believing it.
I do agree that the final chapter on this won’t be written until about ten years after the US records regarding the whole affair are declassified. I think that means we have, what, about 60 years to go?
One unchanging trait of the liberal mind, is that it will never accept any fact that does not fit into the current narrative.
Fact is that Saddam not only had WMDs, he used them. Both on his own people and on the Iranians.
The fact that evidence of mothballed WMD programs has been found and identified.
None of these can penetrate the liberal mind, because it’s more important to believe that Bush is evil.
And just when did you provide night vision for said spy satellites?
The history is not yet finished on this. However, even now, it appears more likely that Saddam’s disinformation program fooled just about everybody, including many of his own leaders, into believing he had WMDs AT THAT TIME. Before, certainly. In the future, without doubt. But probably not then. The transport to Syria story seems much more likely to be an extension of the shell game he ran on UN inspectors, including moving research and manufacturing equipment but not actual WMDs.
I tend to agree with Tregonsee’s point. It wasn’t *just* satellite photos or intelligence agencies’ assessments – solid proof or lack of it. It was Hussein’s own obfuscation and propaganda that the Bush administration had to take into account. To some degree, he brought the invasion on himself by messing with the entire world – including one segment of it that *told* him it was running out of patience. All he had to do was come clean. That means *clean-clean*, not kinda clean in an evasive sort of way. His need to save face, to be Mr. Big in the face of American threats, was what finally did him in.
And it will remain closed. Why still doubt we’re fried. We’re done.
There were stories that the German army trained in armoured warfare in Russia, during the 1930′s, using tanks which they were prohibited from possessing, according to the treaty of Versailles. Is Syria mot ideologically closer to Ba’athist Iraq than Russia was to Nazi Germany? The allegation that Iraq’s WMD program was, at least partially, evacuated to Syria, seems credible and worthy of thorough investigation.
Where did all the yellow-cake go? Was it all accounted for? A substantial number of Iraqi aircraft were allegedly evacuated to Iran, before the out-break of the war, so, why not more sensitive material.
A denier to the bitter end,eh, BC? I bet you still believe in Global Warming,Bush was behind 911, and the “o” is the best president we have ever had. . . .
Ryan,
You should read “Saddam’s Delusions: The View from Inside”, by Woods, Lacey, and Murray in the May/June 2006 issue of Foreign Affairs. They provide a brief of the USJFCOM study of the inner workings of Saddam’s regime based translated documents and other intelligence assets and on extensive interviews with upper and mid-level officials inside the Iraqi military/political establishment. It’s an article that should have gotten more attention than it has. What you describe is not impossible and would confirm what many in the Iraqi establishment believed at the time. Interviewers found mid-level – and some upper level – members of the military who expected that WMD would available to use in defense to defeat the US led invasion and were surprised when there wasn’t. Why that was is as interesting as the existential question of WMD. One of the purposes of the USJFCOM study is to understand why good actionable intelligence was so difficult to come by. The extreme pathological nature of Saddam’s regime is in part the answer and casts a harsh light on what we can expect to know of similar regimes – think of North Korea.
The OKC and WMD liberal meme is thin. These are the climte alarmists as well. All lies.
OKC = WMD = global climate change = marxist propaganda.
Wait until Syria goes to war with Israel. Then the world will find out what happened to Iraq’s WMD.
Israeli intelligence suggested years ago that they had been spirited away to Syria. It makes sense; when you telegraph your punches and dick around before acting, your opponent has lots of time to prepare. Bush will be vindicated.
Those who fail to read a lot of history–like our friend BC–fail to realize that it often takes the truth decades to emerge. It’s best written far after the fact, in the cold light of reason.
Read Oliver North’s fiction piece “The Assassins.”
We DID find WMDs in Iraq — enough Sarin gas to wipe out a city of 50,000.
We found missiles in excess of the U-N distance treaty with Mustard Gas.
But, it “all depends on what your definition of WMD, or ‘is is’”.
Coach “K” from Duke was quoted once: “Time reveals all truths.”
It’s certain that a lot of people were fooled, but who was fooled and by what? The fooling isn’t over. At least some Iraqi senior officers believed they had WMDs, because they issued orders to employ them. The orders were intercepted. Was Saddam himself fooled, or did he play out the worst poker hand in history?
There has been strong indication, from the beginning, that something had been evacuated to Syria. It would be interesting to know what that is. My guess is that it is precursors, machine tools, and raw materials, not completed weapons. These would be of some benefit to Syria.
With reference to the Iraq liberation, it’s only of peripheral interest. As everyone who is serious knows, WMDs were not the casus beli. Inspection for WMDs was.
Iraqi General Georges Sada’s personal knowledge of the whereabouts of the WMD (Syria) years ago has been revealed in a variety of places. Sada’s own book is entitled “Saddam’s Secrets: How an Irai General Defied and Survived Saddam Hussein” WMD were moved to Syria under cover of Red Crescent (Islamic version of the Red Cross) activities in response to a locally serious flood in Syria at the time. (A summary of Sada’s knowledge of the movent of WMDs may also be in one of Josh Rosenberg’s books…)
Gen. Sada also points out that “one of the nicest things about the American people is that you are generous and friendly people….you want to be friendly, so you open up to people and then you’re surprised when they stab you in the back…..this is also a big part of the problem with the State Department and others in government who fail to understand the true nature of the enemy.”
I think the Russian involvement with moving the WMD’s is the reason why Bush took the licks on not finding them. What would he have done about Russian involvement when he had his hands full and was trying to get Russian cooperation on other matters?
I agree. I remember watching President Bush taking a beating from John Kerry during the debate over WMDs. I thought, here is a man that cares more for his country than he does getting re-elected.
He could have easily smacked Kerry with the intel about Russian involvement but knew that I may re-ignite the Cold War. He took the punches because he knew it would be worse for the country if he didn’t.
(I first heard about the WMD convoy before the war started on Debka. There is nothing new to me here.)
Article quote from May, 2004:
“Jordan recently seized 20 tons of chemicals trucked in by confessed al Qaeda members who brought the stuff in from Syria. The chemicals included VX, Sarin and 70 others. But the media seems curiously incurious about whether one could reasonably trace this stuff back to Iraq.”
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-21501.html
20 Tons! eek. Na, they just found it laying around the street and were trying to do civic duty by cleaning it up.
Denying Saddam’s WMD and advanced programs constituted any threat was the key to Democrats taking down George Bush and the Republicans.
There was really nothing more needed than that to have motivated the worldwide mainstream media, academics and U.N. illuminati to quash any evidence of a transfer to Syria.
I believe you.
Unfortunately as far as the writing of history goes, that ship has sailed long ago. History has nothing to do with the truth. It’s like with global warming, the murder of JFK etc. Once the commonly accepted narrative has bin established, it’s virtually impossible to change. Regardless of how illogical that narrative is.
None of this matters, the world community is arrayed against Israel,in some part due to the fool in the White House. We are looking at a second holocaust and the Jewish liberals will be part of it.’Never again’, lasted about sixty five years.
You are probably right, but you should realize that Israel will launch hundreds of nukes when that happens.
Israel’s last day on earth is likely to also be the last day on earth for 3 billion other people as well.
And Israel will survive what it thinks is its last day on Earth. Think about that one. Russia and all of Islam will be destroyed, Europe and America will be decimated, and Israel shall stand triumphant over the ashes of her enemies.
I have to agree with Tregonsee at #6. I’d heard and read reports at the time of mysterious convoys to Syria and a Russian clean-up operation, but nothing hard has ever come out; even this report is really just a congeries of things that make one go “hmmm,” but nothing probative. It’s also possible that Saddam moved equipment necessary to a WMD program or even components, but not WMDs themselves. These could even have been shipments to hide treasures Saddam and his family had accumulated over the years.
We just don’t know. For now, I’m sticking with the ISG’s conclusions. (Though that Syrian facility sure does make one go “hmmm…” )
Why are the words of Sada- and dozens of other Iraqis- no real evidence?
They are, but I consider them indicative but not conclusive since a) witnesses can be wrong and b) they might be telling us what they think we want to hear or for reasons of self-promotion. I’d like to see physical evidence that decisively corroborates the witness accounts. (Like I said, that facility at al-Baida is sure suspicious, but it could be hiding other stuff.) It’s certainly possible that Saddam had WMDs and moved them, but I’m just not willing to say “Yeah, that’s what happened,” based on what I read here.
BC,
Then why did Sadaam himself carry on the lie that he had WMD’s? His lies and actions are some pretty strong indicators of Iraq having WMD.s. Do you deny his claim that he told his handler that he lied to portray strength to his enemies? If that is true, then if he’s a convincing liar, why wouldn’t we be convinced?
Or do you buy his scientists arguments that he was trying to get them to build womens but they lied TO HIM as they were afraid for their lives and didn’t want to tell him they couldn’t deliver? That sounds an awful lot like intent to me.
Or do you buy Dulfler’s claim that he maintained his programs and bankroll from the Oil for Food which he was circumnavigating, and was merely waiting for sanctions to implode to renew his production which he could have online in monts. In that case, it was simply a matter of time till he had weapons.
Or did he simply move them in the run up to war.
Sorry BC, but in every one of those cases we had every reason to treat Iraq as a threat to be dealt with. Even if you argue that Sadaam was simply lying about his actual capabilities and violated resolution after resolution simply to carry on the ruse of his strength that points to the fact that it would ALWAYS be in his interest to be armed either actually or through the impression of his enemies. But whether he lied, his scientists lied to him or he simply moved or destroyed stockpiles until we were out of his air, EVERYTHING points to him being armed or seeking to be armed or giving off the impression that he was armed. If that’s the case, and if it’s in our interest to disarm Iraq (as per the terms of our cease fire from the first gulf war) then no matter which way you slice it, and whatever the actual storyline is, there was a case to be made that Sadaam needed to be disarmed.
this was the UN’s case. This was the previous administrations case. And now Iraq is disarmed, both in actuality and in perception.
This is not a suprise, to say the least. Even those saying that the ‘old shells’ of chemical weapons, the yellowcake and the materials salted away by Saddam’s scientists were ‘proof’ of him not having chemical weapons… even though he did… the concept was that the programs, top to bottom, were to be ended. That is what the cease-fire called for after Desert Storm.
Taking a look from open source reporting allows one to find the basic Syrian WMD sites pretty easily. With Google Earth and some basic reports you can do a lot of investigating on your home desktop…al-Baida was the one place that didn’t have good imagery when I first looked and does have it now. Beyond the surface warehouse structures there are indications of a substantial power generation facility as seen by the steam output at the northern end of that facility. As there is nothing above ground to warrant such, that indicates an underground facility of some sort, put into the mountain the base sits on.
It should be noted that Ray Robison also had intel from Kuwait of a joing nuclear project in Syria some months before the Israelis got to it… truly amazing what can be done with open source intel these days.
As to where Hezbollah gets chemical weapons: Syria. They never signed the CWC, so can do as they please with chemical weapons. Although signatories to the BWC and NPT, there have been indications of skirting those, also.
The big surprise here is the location: Most of us that were actually paying attention in 2002 thought the WMD’s were in the Bekka Valley….which, while controlled by Syria would give them some degree of plausibility being in Lebanon.
Yea yea yea we all know that Syria got his WMD’s this isn’t anything new. Of course our government claims otherwise but then again this is the same government that has managed to bankrupt the richest country in history, this is the same government that has just recently started down the road to destroying the best health care in the world, this is the very same country that allowed 19 religious fanatics to destroy downtown and New York and Washington DC. Why should anything this government claims elicit anything except giggles…nervous of course since it is never a fun day when you are watching those who are supposed to protect you go so terribly wrong.
Here have fun with this link…
http://pierrelegrand.net/2006/09/11/saddam-and-al-qaeda-connections-and-collaboration.htm
I read in the Debka File, shortly before the invasion of Iraq that WMD’s had indeed been transported to Syria. Unfortunately, at the time I was not clever enough to make a screenshot of said report and was unable to find again a few months later.
U.S. Confirms Israeli Strikes Hit Syrian Targets…Saddam’s Nuclear Program Found?
http://pierrelegrand.net/2007/09/12/us-confirms-israeli-strikes-hit-syrian-targetssaddams-nuclear-program-found.htm
I figured it was common knowledge that Syria got Iraq’s WMDs from the escaping higher echelon Baatists as a quid pro quo for hiding them during the war. I mean, come on people, really, use your heads. Occam’s Razor applied here.
So it looks like another screw up by Dubya. I predict his reputation will keep descending until it’s down there with Millard Filmore. Were it not for his bungling ineptitude a disaster like Barack Obama — destined after a decade or two to join Millard and GWB in the basement — would not have occurred.
What a bizarre comment. The same people who destroyed Bush’s presidency are responsible for Obama’s election. But even tho’ they control 90% of the media, they can’t hide Obama’s incompetence.
I think sometimes that I’d like to see an almost Soviet-style PURGE of our own bureaucracy, to get rid of everyone who’s ever acted like a mole and secretly tried to interfere with a sitting president’s policy or an act of any Congress.
I am dead certain that 90% or more of our ‘bureaucRATs” are leftists who oppose any conservative in any national role and who assist the press and work against any right wing action of any kind. They are collectivists by instinct and by grooming and experience, and they are busily chewing away at freedoms in this nation, termites and beavers quietly destroying the one and creating the other, the commune, the one-party future they crave. First it is out of the desire to protect their own job, and then it rapidly builds into a system-wide conspiracy of like-thinkers.
I’d like to see them all turned out on the street, no pension, no nothing. Start again, in the PRIVATE sector you’ve worked so hard to suck dry and destroy. DO IT ON MERIT.
Nothing makes me more angry than desk-sitters and bureaucrats acting, BELIEVING, as if it’s their duty to oppose the popularly elected government they are supposed to SERVE.
Hey #8 – John McLachlan: That’s my maiden name. Where did your family come from in Scotland? My Dad – Glasgow, my Mom – Maybole. Just wondering..
I don’t know…
if you take 3-4 months to argue in public about getting a ‘warrant’ to search a crack house, what are the chances that the crack dealers move on?
but, for the skeptics:
CIA budget exceeds 20 billion, with access to every spy satellite in the universe, and they didn’t have a single inside operative who could confirm/locate wmds, and they couldn’t find someone who’d try and deal for money or their lives?
forgetting chem/bio, for the moment, radioactive materials-in quantity, do leave a signature.
personally, without wmds, the removal of saddam, and establishing the current system of govt in Iraq would be be worth 10k dead. The largest dividend was actually the emergence of the sistani interpretation of sharia law and govt. The pressure on Iran, given a neighboring country, that would dare suggests that the mullahs of Iran are not legit for govt, is an enormous dividend.
CIA budget exceeds 20 billion, with access to every spy satellite in the universe, and they didn’t have a single inside operative who could confirm/locate wmds, and they couldn’t find someone who’d try and deal for money or their lives?
The simple answer is: no. Ever since Carter, the U.S. intelligence community has relied on technical assets and photography/SIGINT(signals intercepts) and downplayed HUMINT (human intelligence) operations. For crying out loud, the CIA once got chewed out because they associated with undesirable people!
Americans like technology and we are good at it. Our ability to monitor certain activities via satellites, signals intelligence, or other technical means, while not perfect, is pretty good. Our weak point is HUMINT, which has atrophied to the point that it must be rebuilt.
We Have Not Correctly Framed the Debate on Intelligence Reform
We have not had much luck penetrating Al Quada, we had no luck getting anybody into Iraq before the invasion, and we have had little luck doing so since. Satellites are easy to fool, if you know when they pass over, and SIGINT doesn’t do anything if the other guys’ smart enough to know to when to keep his mouth shut.
Also from :
In July 2002, as the Chairman of the Subcommittee on Terrorism and Homeland Security in the House of Representatives, it was my responsibility, along with Ranking Member, Representative Jane Harman, to submit the first detailed report to Congress on intelligence deficiencies that existed prior to 11 September 2001. We identified several systemic problems in the CIA, and we also noted that there were significant problems in sharing intelligence within the intelligence community, especially between the CIA and the FBI.
We pointed out that the CIA had lost its focus on HUMINT missions and needed to put more collectors on the streets, rely less on other foreign intelligence agencies, and find ways to penetrate terrorist cells. I am particularly pleased that immediately following the release of our report, the CIA rescinded the so called “Deutch guidelines” that were implemented in 1995. Those guidelines prohibited the expenditure of tax money being paid to individuals providing us intelligence if they had a criminal record or any kind of disparaging record in their past.
Having met personally with CIA agents in countries with known terrorist activities, I heard firsthand how these guidelines, while relaxed after 9/11, were still a major hindrance for our agents to collect and gather intelligence. Terrorist networks like al Qaeda are comprised of the meanest, nastiest killers in the world, and it simply was not smart for us to limit the operatives our intelligence agents could recruit to infiltrate terrorist groups. For us, this was a small but important victory with respect to improving human intelligence.
HUMINT is a dirty business, a dangerous profession, and we must be prepared to accept the risks associated with spying on those who seek to harm us, whether they be a small terrorist cell, a larger international terrorist organization, or a rogue nation-state. North Korea, for example, is developing the means to deliver nuclear weapons to close and important allies, like Japan, or to our own state of Hawaii and our Pacific Coast-we cannot afford to let down our guard or relax our intelligence awareness.
The “risk-avoidance” culture that had infected the CIA and prevented us from getting into the inner circles of al Qaeda or the regime in Iraq before the 2003 war must be changed, and new CIA Director Porter Goss is working hard to do just that. However, it will take time and a team dedicated to a new way of thinking.
See also Deutch guidelines.
one other small point, along the lines of the ‘victors writing hx’:
if the obama admin had strong evidence of wmds being moved to syria, would they share the info?
two distinct classifications would occur, in reagrds to ANY evidence:
“strong” evidence would not be considered proof, and even “certain” evidence would be thrown into the “strong” category. It is not in the interest of the current ‘blame bush’ admin to throw W a lifeline, and so I can only conclude that the current admin has no crediblity on the matter. Although if this dni guy writes a bio…
Search for the attempted terror bombing in Amman. It would have been worse than 9-11. Some reports have it that there was nerve gas involved. Had to come from some place.
The reports about the whole thing remind me of the dog that didn’t bark.
Crickets.
Like in many other cases, the strict control that the subversives have of the media has dictated the terms of this discussion:
Saddam Hussein DID use WMDs on civilians. PERIOD.
There should have never been any discussion about the “existence” of the WMDs.
But we allow the totalitarians to dictate not only the subject of every discussion but also the words we use, so we find ourselves “discussing” if Saddam “had” something…that he had used !!!
This is very much like the infamous habit of calling the totalitarians “liberals”.
We must get into the habit of STOPPING THE BRAINWASHING.
Israel desperately want to entangle the US in Syria, to provide a buffer between themselves and Turkey.
As far as the ‘proof’ – consider the source.
In the spring of 2004 I sat next to a special ops (ranger? don’t remember now) soldier on a flight from upstate NY to Charlotte. He was on his way to Fort Bragg.
Having a son in the military, we talked the War. He had been posted on the Iraq Syrian border. We talked about how difficult it was to know — a farmer found with a warm AK-47 after the patrol had been fired on at night. Had he thought he was shooting at predators of his flock? We talked about the weather — that is, it is very uncomfortable lay for hours in the sand at 120 degrees in body armour.
I asked him what he thought about the WMD rumor that semi trucks headed out of Iraq into Syria. He said: Yes. Semi trucks had headed out of Iraq for Syria.
It seems his intel was correct. I have always thought it isn’t as simple as some people want it to be.
How dare you claim that the WMDs went to Syria. Everyone, with a sense of sanity, knows that whatever WMDs Iraq had (IF they existed at all) were seized by Republicans via Halliburton and used on the oil rig in the Gulf to purposefully ruin the oceans so teabaggers would have something to celebrate.
And that the truth, i read it on the always truth-filled and informed Democratic Underground forums!
As an exercise, it might be profitable for everyone to think about those 50 trucks.
How much of Iran’s current bomb project could be dismantled and shipped out of country in a few planeloads and a convoy of 50 trucks?
Would that render the last ten years of work invisible, untraceable?
Just a question.
There’s evidence of Hussein’s efforts to expend significant energy to conceal military assets. The pictures at the link are of conventional assets but on what basis would one conclude that similar efforts were not made to conceal other assets or that, if similar efforts were made, they were only made within Iraq?
I also asked Duelfer if he was aware of the intelligence provided by the Ukrainians and other sources that the Russians were in Iraq helping to cleanse the country shortly before the invasion. His facial expressions before I even finished the question showed he genuinely had never even heard of this.
For crying out loud, both the Washington Post and the Washington Times had articles (I forget exactly when, but it was circa 2001) interviewing the Russian scientists that helped Saddam with his bug-out plans! It’s long been common knowledge among Army personnel with whom I work that Saddam evacuated most of his chemical and probably biological agents to Syria. The lead elements of our invasion forces arrived just in time to watch the trucks disappear over the border.
The “insurgents” fighting us in Iraq actually used (probably inadvertently) chemical shells to make IED’s. These were missed during the evac and left in Saddam’s huge conventional stockpiles (which, somehow, we didn’t or couldn’t guard properly). One popular way to make an IED involves using an artillery shell as the explosive, wiring the cell-phone/command wire/trip wire to the igniter. Fortunately, binary chemical shells require special knowledge (which the insurgents don’t have) to make work and none of the IED’s that used them worked. We’ve actually found over 500 chemical shells during our sweeps, so you can imagine how many were originally there.
Oh, as for why Saddam didn’t save the weapons for use on the invading coalition forces:
1) He really wasn’t that stupid, he knew the U.S. policy that “a germ is a gas is a nuke” when it comes to our response to a WMD attack.
2) He really thought (until too late) that he’d win, or at least survive, and wanted to save the WMD stockpiles for use against Iran.
If you review the recipients of illegal Oil For Food vouchers, I think you’ll get a better picture of the real relationship between Russia and Iraq:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-for-Food_Programme. Based on a rough count, it looks like they received over 90%.
You people need to wake up. Russia is the Main Enemy, and they had almost 20 years to operate as far outside public scrutiny or consciousness as the Martians. Iraq – as all such non-states – was a vassal of Russian intelligence. So is Syria. Where does HAMAS go when it needs sudden diplomatic help? Where do Iran’s highest leadership flee to discuss an impending revolt out on the streets? Where does Iran get its nuclear and ballistic missile technology andits air defenses?
You must wake up. Now. The time for this “oh Russia is a disintigrating country full of drug addicts and gangsters that can’t fight wars against tiny Chechnya and Georgia” is long over. Open up your eyes. Embrace the obvious.
I have to agree with you on that one. Communism fell, but the communists didn’t.
As one of the original Persian Gulf War, 1990-1991, black hole air war planners…
I can say that in 2002-2003, more than 500 trucks removed weapons materials from Iraq to Syria, with at that time Russian military on-scene assistance. One weapons material convoy was manned by all Russian troops.
Secretary of State Colin Powell, during all of these observed movements of weapons – was a complete blithering and dithering idiot.
To gain a first hand account of what was going on from 1986-1996, one must read the following.
Khidhir Abd al-Abbas Hamza, PhD Physics, Univ. Florida.
“Saddam’s Bombmaker”, Khidhir Hamza with Jeff Stein, Simon & Schuster, N.Y., © 2000, ISBN 0-684-87386-9
Dr Hamza was Saddam Hussein’s, Dictator of Iraq, Chief of Technology and Science and tasked with developing Nuclear Fision Weapons for Sadams use against Israel and the USA.
What we did not know on 1 August 1990, was that Dr. Hamza’s team had completed the entire bomb casing, support electronics, fuses and detonators – for two Atomic bombs. They had only completed one of two, of the key Uranium pits – to have a fully functional Atomic Bomb of the World War II Thin Man gun-tube type of fission bomb. They were within weeks of completing the second Uranium pit for their first complete A-bomb. They were also within six months of completing two more Uranium pits, to complete their second A-bomb.
None of any of these components have ever been found. Not that we actually looked to hard for them. We did not have the personnel dedicated to that mission, no thanks to the massive stupidity of Donald Rumsfeld.
I and others, had always assumed that these components were shipped to Syria in those convoys along with their Chemical and Biological weapons, to preserve an Islamic bomb program. Which Iran is now funding.
Your comments are good but your bomb facts are incorrect. The nuclear gun device was named Little Boy. It did not have a pit. It had rings and a slug of uranium to create a critical mass and a nuclear detonation.
That’s all ya got? Looking for proof of Saddam’s WMD and all we get is a satelite photo of a Syrian farm with a two lane road and tree lined center divider. I am convinced by previous evidence that Iraq’s WMD were shipped out before and during the opening of the war, but this photo isn’t going to convince any skeptics because it doesn’t convince me.
IT’S A FARM! Like the other farms in the area. Here it is:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Masyaf+Syria&sll=36.102376,40.012207&sspn=4.251182,8.151855&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Masyaf,+Hama+Governorate,+Syria&t=h&ll=35.029241,36.367149&spn=0.008416,0.015922&z=16
View Larger Map
The farm is located south of Masyaf, Syria on Hwy 34 a few kilometers north of Al Bayadiyah and more than 50 kilometers from the military airfield in Hamah to the east on Hwy 35.
Sure thats a farm. You interested in some investment property I have forsale?
Thank you for the investment offer, Mr. Ragshaft, however overpriced and ill situated the property.
The map link is live and you can explore the area. If you do so, you will find other farms in the area that have the same general appearence invluding one on the south end of town, and two to the west.
And you think Syria doesn’t know we have satellites? Duh!
Lt. Gen. DeLong, deputy commander of Centcom 2000-2003, said this in a PBS interview back in 2006.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/interviews/delong.html
Key quote:
And this debate about weapons of mass destruction and developing all that information, all the talk about whether the stuff existed, did that ever cross your field of vision while you were down here, both running Afghanistan and preparing for Iraq?
Yeah, because we saw it in Iraq. We had people on the ground in all the different places, and we knew where the stuff was, and we also knew that the U.N. inspectors during this period of time had to tell Saddam a week ahead of time they were coming to place X. We watched trucks come in, take the stuff out, go to another place as the U.N. inspectors would go in. By this time now, this is 12 years that Saddam has been moving his chemical weapons around. So we knew there were weapons of mass destruction. Now, how much or what kind, [we] weren’t sure.
But two days before we did go into Iraq, we watched truckloads of it go into Syria, truckloads of it. Now, these chemical weapons, you’ve got stuff here and stuff here that by themselves are not potent. You mix them together and you put them in the nose of an artillery shell or a bomb and you weaponize them, and it becomes a weapon. …
You saw it how? How did you know?
With people on the ground and with technical systems. We saw it. It wasn’t a matter of speculation; we saw it happen. Now, are they ever going to find it in Syria? Hell, no. Is there still some buried in Iraq? Yes, there is. It wasn’t too long ago we uncovered an artillery round with sarin gas in the nose. I mean, it was old, but why was it buried? You’ve got a country the size of California in square miles, and we now find MiG-25s, the largest fighter in the world. Occasionally, our guys with metal detectors will say, “Oh, there’s something here”; we’ll dig up one of these MiG-25s that have been buried.
So you still believe –
No, this is truth. Whether they find it out or not, I don’t know. But it went to Syria; probably some went to Lebanon; and maybe some even went from the south, went across to Iran. But we saw it go to Syria. …
Something I figured out some time back and wonder why I am the only one to connect the dots…..or to express it…….
Allegedly Saddam’s WMD nuke programme disappears leaving scant trace.
Iran suddenly has a mature nuclear programme.
Iran has managed to conceal a Manhatten programme for 30 years? NOT! I suspect that our first news of the Iranian nuke efforts was not long after they began—-with a helluva head start.
The counter to this is that Iran and Saddam were extremely hostile. Howcum despite the animosity of a 10 year war….Iraqui aircraft flee to Iran?
Regarding the aircraft, its more likely those were individual deserts (probably Shiite conscripts) who fled to Iran for asylum. NOt an unlikely event given Saddam’s oppression of them and the nature of Iran.
And I do think Iraq’s Manhatten project might have ended up helping Iran’s, though not directly. More likely that Saddam sent it to Syria and they sent part of it to Tehran.
“Our Keyhole spy satellites can pick out someone p*ssing in the street — they would have certainly picked out Hussein sneaking stuff to Syria and where they went to”, says one self-appointed expert. Well, no. Not even close.
KH-12 ground resolution is estimated at perhaps 0.15 meter, which is good enough to recognize an aircraft on the ground, or a building, or a rocket launcher, but not anything much smaller than a truck. Could it tell what’s in one of the thousands of trucks passing every day between Iraq and Syria in 2003? The best it could do is verify that there were trucks passing from point A in Iraq and on to Syria- if you knew where point A was ahead of time.
Iraq is big- 167,400 square miles big. You cannot watch an entire country with a handful of satellites. You can’t even watch a city. The best you can do is go somewhere that intelligence already suggests is a place of interest, and see what you can find… if it’s big enough.
It is indeed fact that Iraq transported WMD to Syria just before the invasion ordered by GW Bush. Where is it? As others said, stashed in Syria and Lebanon. Probably used to help build the nuke plant of Assad Jr, now gone. Even if not, laid in the noses of missiles, as the US general said.
I could name a town in the Beka’a Valley near Syria where some of it is buried, but there is enough evidence. A town in deep valleys, guarded by Syrian and Hezbollah troops.
As for the few posters here, reliable as mud in a wadi after a flash flood, who think news of this is merely Mossad disinformation, G-d bless you too. I hope your mothers love you.
“Iran has managed to conceal a Manhatten programme for 30 years? NOT! I suspect that our first news of the Iranian nuke efforts was not long after they began—-with a helluva head start”
France sold Israel all of its components for nuclear reactors and weapons for decades in secret, what Israel could not purchase it stole and intercepted.
Iran didnt run operate a Manhattan project, it didn’t need too. Everyone assumes Iran operates in Secret, guess again. They purchase whatever they need from whoever is willing to sell it; Russia, France, Brazil, whoever. its how Israel did it, its how Iran did it.
People seriously think that the world operates in a blind trust? that we didn’t know Israel had “secret” nuclear weapons program in the 50′s and 60′s..? that we don’t know Iran has “secret” Nuclear weapons program today..? the problem is you cannot point your finger at someone else for doing the exact same thing you did yourself.
And the veiled threats of Israeli option to commit nuclear war against the rest of the world does not benefit Israels cause any either. all it does is give cause to anyone thinking of defending Israel’s right to exist. When enough people are threatened, they may not wish to defend Israel any longer. And before spouting off, there would be no Israel if it were not for many other nations supporting and defending behind the scenes.
I think we can all agree that Saddam and his sons are not working on the development of atomic weapons today.
I’d like to think we can all agree (but I’m sure some don’t) that if Saddam and his sons were still running Iraq, that they’d be racing the Iranians in the development of an atomic weapon.
Do you people really think you are going to be told how much WMD were found??? Some things will never be known, I don’t think the pampered people of the US could handle the truth.
I’ve been saying for some time now that the WMD’s have been sent into Syria. The tractor trailer convoy that supposedly had a billion dollars in American and Iraqi denominations never made sense. The amout taken in US dollars was 900 million, and that amount would fit in the back of a van. Then there is the problme of the massive amounts of money foud through-out Iraq that Saddams sons had hidden. So there were tractor trailers of something that left Iraq days before the invasion. It is well known that Saddam had these before the invasion, Chemical Ali had top have them to kill all those Kurds. This just adds more fodder to my theory.
BC,
In response to the following (for some reason there is not a response tab below your post):
“The core issue of all this is that Bush at no point had any real evidence whatsoever to justify his WMD claims; ergo, he lied. That bit I left off, “However, ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement of limited WMD-related materials,” is no more than worthless speculation along the lines of “Well, you’re never 100% sure about anything….” No — that’s like saying it’s OK to break into someone’s house to arrest him because while there was no evidence of guilt, there was still a theoretical possibility that such evidence might still exist. You would not tolerate for a second this sort of bizarre “reasoning” domestically, so why would you think it would be OK overseas?”
Worthless speculation? Maybe worthless to you since it doesn’t fit your arguement. If that sentence is indeed ‘worthless speculation’ then how come the one sentence (“it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place”) you cher5ry-picked out of the same paragraph is not? Is the same author not engaging in more worthless speculation? These papers you have presented, written both before and after the initial invasion, demonstrate that Iraq was heavily engaged in the development and use of WMDs and if given the time they would have developed more weapons–including nuclear weapons. It is clear that Gulf War I crippled, but did not stop, their desire and ability to smoothly create WMDs, but it also seems clear from the ISG report that the inspectors are not 100% certain what happened with the program and all the WMD materials in question. Since they admit they are not sure one way or the other, they are engaging in speculation. That is the best they can do with the information they obtained. With their admitted limited knowledge of Hussein’s WMD program, they can only speculate whether there was any transfer of WMDs to Syria. The ISG cannot rule one way or the other. So again, the possiblility exists that there may have been materials transferred out of Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion. So if reports come out that there may have been observable semi-trailer traffic out of Iraq and into Syria just prior to the invasion, then one has to wonder what was in those trailers. But since we don’t have open access to Syria, it may be a long time before we find out.
What you call “bizzare reasoning” is actually very sound reasoning and I have no problem with using our system of laws when engaging others overseas. Law enforcement officers in this country search and arrest people using probable cause and reasonable suspicion; it is with trials that they are proven innocent or guilty. We did not invade Iraq without cause. For instance, consider the following legal definitions taken from the web:
“Probable cause is the logical belief, supported by facts and circumstances, that a particular person has committed a crime.”
The world community had probable cause, there was a logical belief, supported by evidence, that Hussein was continuing his programs and developing more WMDs, and that he would either use them begin to actively proliferate WMDs. Yes, the fact that Iraq has oil and is strategically located to a large amount of oil played a factor. The whole industrialized world depends upon cheap oil to operate and having a psychopath such as Hussein in control of nukes was not an option. Unfortunately we have bigger problems with another psycho regime in Iran.
“Reasonable suspicion is known as a reasonable presumption that a crime has or will occur. Reasonable suspicion is reached through rational conclusions based on facts or circumstances. This is also referred to as more than a guess but less than probable cause.”
We know as fact that Saddam Hussein had no problem with using WMDs against the Iranians and the Kurds, the world community had reasonable suspicion that if given the opportunity he would use them again and with perahps greater potency (nukes).
“Basic Distinction
Probable cause is a term used when there is concrete evidence showing a crime has been committed. Reasonable suspicion is a more loosely defined term and is used to justify investigation into suspicious activity when there is a belief that a crime has been committed.”
If we accept these definitions as accurate then it appears the world community had both probable cause and reasonable suspicion to invade Iraq in 2003. Unfortunately some of the big players (Russia, China, and France) had more to lose economically by an invasion so they offered resistance to the cause, so it appears the US had to act unilaterally. Post invasion findings do demonstrate that there were very little WMDs remaining in the country. However, it would be a fallacy of logic to conclude that they never existed, and with Hussein’s proven track record of using WMDs, and his suspicious handling of weapons inspectors, it would have been a mistake to assume he was not engaged in WMD programs after 1991.
I think that this probable cause approach is reasonable, but it, like most of the Iraq affair remains blurry. I’m sure that something which would qualify as part of a WMD material/operation/product was removed, but the fact that whatever it was was in such limited quantities that essentially nothing (substantial) was found in Iraq, undercuts the case that there really were SUBSTANTIAL WMD’s. GWB went in because by the end, he had all the troops over there with no place to go. It was time for them to come back home…or invade. It is unfair to say that he “lied;” “guessed wrong” after too much “slam dunk” talk is more like it.
His administration knew how important it was to find something substantial on the WMD front, and they couldn’t. Isn’t that the essential bottom line?
So far, we have an ambiguous result; the surge certainly kept things from being another Vietnam, but overall strategic success both as to how the geopolitical situation sorts itself out over there without Saddam AND how de-emphasizing Afghanistan for all that time will play out is… unknown. It did probably cost the Repubs the Presidency; so it goes.
Dwight,
I agree that there are simply too many blurry lines from which to discern a clear picture of events. It will take years and years for more information to come out, and even then we may never know the full extent of Saddam Hussein’s WMD program or fully understand the reasons for war. We tend to think that the only players in this war were Iraq and the United States. Until we have a full accounting of the activities other nations (and ourselves) before, during, and after the war in Iraq we will continue to make broad speculative statements about its nature.
I never felt comfortable with the Bush administration’s casus bellum; they simply did a horrible job at conveying their reasons to the American public. I feel the Bush administration placed too much emphasis on WMDs and not enough on Saddam Hussein, who had clearly demonstrated to the world that he was a butcher and threat to those countries around him. Iraq was going nowhere but down with Saddam, now at least the Iraqi’s have a chance to do something different from every other Arab Muslim dictatorship. Our job is done, now they have to sink or swim on their own. Our soldiers didn’t die for nothing.
Don’t be surprised by any old tricks in November. Unlimited immigration and acceptance of Puerto Rico as the 51st state along with new census are all wild cards.
But will your friendly mass media still be as effective in November as it was in 2003? Wise up and get on the internet for real time info.
You guys still aren’t getting it – there was no “probable cause”: that implies there was a crime committed and little solid evidence, but there were enough circumstantial evidence combined with past history to warrant an arrest followed by a more aggressive search for evidence. In Hussein’s case, there was real evidence being collected, but it kept pointing away from him. It’ll be like the police arresting an ex-con (or any of the usual suspects) for a crime even though he had an alibi, no motive, the all the evidence was pointing towards a gang he had no affiliation with.
John McLachlan #8 asks “Where did all the yellow-cake go? Was it all accounted for?”
According to our news outlets five hundred tons of yellow-cake was shipped to Canada out of Iraq.
I know Canada tends to be ignored, but has been an important ally in this fight. Canadian military action is frequently attributed to England. It was our soldiers on the front lines in Afghanistan before the US came in – not Europes. We commanded US troops when they did come in.
I think the Euroweenies were hiding under the bed. May I add that it was the Canadian Embassy in Iran that rescued the US hostages during Carters ineptitude.
I don’t know if it was Bush’s friendship with Tony Blair that tends to credit England or that we are considered part of the British military. We are not.
Another thing that is ignored is the fact that Canada supplies 40% of US oil. You could dump any dependance on Saudie oil at any time and we would supply their 20% if needed until the US gets back to drilling. So there. I feel much better now.
When the Liberal party were in power here, they tried to destroy our military and were anti-American. They stuck blue helmets on our troops and sent them to do the UN’s dirty work.
Since we managed to kick them out, our military has been restored.
Good luck in November and God bless America – and Israel.
And conservatives accuse liberals of believing in flying unicorns. Use any tactic to vindicate your lies, good luck using this strategy in the next election boys.
Well what ever keeps you occupied you nuts.
TROLL ALERT!
…a yeah! Note the ‘one size fits all’ verbiage. Let alone the disinformation regarding November’s elections… I laugh in thinking this was conjured by a group in a think tank…
…a yeah! Note the ‘one size fits all’ verbiage. Let alone the disinformation regarding November’s elections… I laugh in thinking this was conjured by a group in a think tank…
Translation: I can’t refute anything that has been written, so I’ll throw out a few insults, to bolster what’s left of my ego, and run like #### so that I won’t see any of the responses.
Markie,
You like playing psyber ping pong with your little leftarded friends.
did, didn’t, did, didn’t didn’t did, you troll
Idiot. Nothing matters to your sort but the imposition of communism, does it? Not our economy, not our lives, only your politik. Disgusting.
The REAL reason…
Keep in mind that the Russians, germany and the French ‘blocked’ Bush in the UN for almost a year prior to the invasion… for a reason. Also remember we did find atleast one german made mobile bio lab in violation of the UN sanctions.
However.. the REAL reason we went into Iraq was the counterfeiting of billions of our dollars, so perfectly that our secret service could not distinguish them from our own printings. As proof’s Remember the billions in American cash we found.. and the ‘new’ bills we devised to thwart what husain had already put into circulation? We invaded to stop his efforts to collapse our government with a monetary attack. Now that the real cat is out of the bag… I’ll most likely have wing-tip wearing secret service agents knocking on my door… I just get tired of idiots knocking what we’ll come to know as one of the greatest presidents we’ve ever had serve of country.. and he always put her protection before his own.
Duke, that adds up, there is a whole lot we will never know, people have been trying to say that the Iraqi scientists making the WMD stuff quietly disposed of it and bluffed Saddam, how deluded would someone have to be to believe that? What do the moonbats think Israel destroyed that left an atomic fingerprint. Also what happened to all the paperwork that was found, I remember the receipts for warplane spares from France on the eve of the liberation, also the vast oil contracts found by a journalist that gave france and Germany great amounts of oil for keeping the USA from entering under a UN flag. And so it goes on, I must remember to make hard copy of this stuff as in this digital age things vanish.
There is simple proof that Iraq had and was pursuing WMD – the National Geographic program that followed the actual invasion. They showed video of a laboratory that was building and testing concealed bombs. Remember the warning back when about bombs in umbrellas? That was one of the items they found being prepared for concealing bombs – the lab even had explosive detection devices to test their work. That video PROVES that Iraq was attempting to perfect weapons for a terror campaign (and their assassination campaign scheduled in Europe for the summer of the invasion year – the war stopped THAT terror campaign). Very simple proof, and ultimately damning.
There is a complex proof also, and that is the entire report prepared by Duelfer. Very few people have actually read the report, certainly nobody that says sadamn was not continuing his WMD programs. For example, read the section on the “pesticide” materials plants he was designing and building = dual purpose. Or, especially nice, it the section on the continued work in bio-weapon labs, and the on-going experiments on HUMANS!
Anytime someone tries that “no WMB” BS on me I just ask them “have you read the Duelfer Report. I’m still waiting to find the first naysayer that actually has read the most pertinent report on the evidence.
sadamn was a bad and dangerous actor and I’m glad he very real threat has ended.
I knew several people who served on the Iraq Survey Group. They had some very interesting stories to tell. The most interesting one was how they had all of this evidence about the existence and disposition of Iraqi WMD stockpiles that they gave to David Kay, who then turned right around, got in front of the TV cameras and told the world the exact opposite of what the evidence showed. Politics can be pretty strange sometimes….and George W. Bush had to take one for the team rather than compromise other factors that would have caused us even more problems…and no, we had not supplied Iraq with WMD’s either.
BC
the facts are:
if YOUR right, and there were never any WMDS. America is SAFE
if WE are right, and there were WMDS, so we attacked. America is SAFE
if WE were wrong, and attacked any ways. America is SAFE
if YOU were wrong and WE did not attack. America is DESTROYED.
you can not play games\politics when it comes to American lives. and your a short sited fool for thinking we can.
Pres. Bush received 3 warnings about the impending attack and he IGNORED them all!
WE were right and there never were any WOMD
Bush should have to pay for this wrong information!!
Look, after the Gulf War saddam agreed to make a list of all his WMD’s and then to destroy them all under u.n. supervision in return for the U.S. not rolling into Baghdad and deposing saddam.
He made the list but the only WMD’s we were sure he got rid of was the bio weapons he used on the Kurds in his own country and those he allowed inspectors to view after GWB started building up forces on the border.
Between this, and the 08 MSNBC article about 550 metric tonnes of yellowcake that we removed from Iraq, why is there still all this “Bush lied” bs? Saddam had it, we have cold hard proof of that, and yet this stupidity continues.
We used to have the occasional nuclear wargame at the air base I was stationed at back in the day. We brought the weapons out and had them into the aircraft shelters between satelite passes. When the game was over, they were put back into the ammo dump the same way. Satelites are very easy to fool if you know when they are coming over and even a country like Iraq can figure that out.
This has been no state secret. As my youngest child would still say “like Duh!” We knew this was true oh say back at the time of the the “movement” from Iraq to Syria. That was WHY there was supposed to be a TWO PRONG APPROACH, through Turkey, to cut off the escape into the wild border with Turkey and into “friendly” Syria.
Just “f-ing” unbelievable people! Will someone remind the Leftist Yahoos that President Bush et al, WERE NOT LYING once again?
i have waited years for this subject to come up again. there was a one liner on the news just before the last iraq war that said a column of 19 trucks were heading towards the syrian border with nuclear materials. no one jumped on it and it was never heard from again.
God revealed to me Saddam’s WMDs were shipped to BOTH Syria and Iran BEFORE our US Military ever entered Iraq to attack Baghdad and commence their search for Saddam Hussein. When God revealed this to me, I sent friends and family e-mails and told them this.
Later, I saw an interview on TV with Georges Sada, Saddam Hussein’s closest General. He said he actually witnessed Saddam’s WMDs being broken down into smaller parts and then air-shipped out of Iraq to Syria and Iraq during some 40+ sordi missions. He said the airplanes had been deliberately repainted so they wouldn’t be detected as being military planes. Georges Sada wrote a book about it, and anyone who has WRONGLY persecuted and slandered President George W. Bush (one of our GREATEST Presidents) over this, FALSELY declaring him a LIAR, needs to READ Georges Sada’s book, and then send a letter of apology to George W., or at least post one on one of these political websites!
I would give ANYTHING to have George W. back as our President, right NOW! It was his MILITARY background that helped PROTECT America during BOTH of his Administrations. HE was the one who created the Office of Homeland Security that Bill Clinton SHOULD have created during his OWN Presidency since Clinton was the one who received the INITIAL intelligence stating Osama bin Laden was planning an AIRBORNE ATTACK on America!
George W. Bush served HONORABLY in the TX National Guard during the Viet Nam War, and as a PILOT he was responsible for PROTECTING our HOMELAND! Those who SLANDERED George W. because he served in the National Guard reveal their own LACK of knowledge about the responsibilities of those who serve in our State Militias! For the naive and uneducated who love to slander those serving in STATE National Guard units: not everyone in our US Military OR the State National Guards were sent to Viet Nam during the war, because they were needed HERE, in CONUS, as BACK-UP personnel to support the mission of those serving OVERSEAS, and to protect our homeland! When anyone dares DISHONOR George W. over serving in the National Guard during the Viet Nam War instead of the US Military, they are dishonoring ALL our military personnel TODAY–whether or not they are serving in the US Military or serving in one of our State National Guards, because it’s impossible for our military serving overseas to carry out their mission without the unsung heroes who are ORDERED to remain HERE, in CONUS!
John Kerry LIED when he claimed George W. Bush supposedly managed to get into the TX National Guard and remained here in America during the Viet Nam War because of his Dad’s “connections”. It ridiculous of Kerry to slander George W. for several reasons. My own Brother served in the US Air Force during the Viet Nam: he also NEVER received orders to serve overseas in Viet Nam! Our family had NO connections! The question that Kerry SHOULD have brought up was about his good buddy, Bill Clinton. Clinton was too much of a COWARD to serve his own Country that he enrolled in college in Europe to AVOID the DRAFT, and so he could protest AGAINST his OWN Nation in ANTI-American protest rallies!
For the uneducated young folks who know NOTHING about Kerry’s REAL history, but instead believe his LIE that he’s supposedly a “Viet Nam War Hero”, Kerry was known as “Hanoi John” by fellow US Navy Swift Boat Vets in Viet Nam and also by the rest of us who had REASON to believe that he was a TRAITOR to his fellow servicemen AND our Nation. John Kerry brought up “connections” because his OWN buddy–US Senator Ted Kennedy–helped him get an EARLY discharge from the US Navy after only serving 4 – 5 mos. in Viet Nam, even though he suffered NO major injuries!!
However, his fellow US servicemen were required to REMAIN in Viet Now to FULFILL their FULL time of service, unless they sustained major injuries, died, or were captured! Kerry’s love interest, Actress Jane Fonda, as a/k/a “Hanoi Jane” by those of us who still remember her as a TRAITOR to our US Military personnel and our POWs and MIAs serving in Viet Nam. She flew to COMMUNIST North Viet Nam DURING the Viet Nam War to personally offer her PROPAGANDA services to the Viet Cong. There are photos available showing her sitting with the enemy BEHIND a gatlin gun, wearing one of the enemy’s metal helmets, pretending she’s SHOOTING it! As soon as John got his US Navy discharge, Jane helped him create his own anti-American Viet Nam War Protest Organization.
Kerry then LIED to our US Congress, claiming ALL of our Viet Nam Vets were “war criminals”, and slaughtered innocent civilians! Although he claimed he ALSO did these things; Kerry was NEVER tried for doing so! Instead, he branded HIMSELF a “Viet Nam War Hero”! The reason I remember all this so well is Kerry made his statement two days before my 23rd Birthday! It was because of BOTH “Hanoi John” and “Hanoi Jane” branding our Viet Nam Vets as “War Criminals”, that NONE of them received the Heroes’ Welcome they DESERVED when they returned home. They instead were spit upon, and had rotten vegetables, fruit, and bottles thrown at them! Being falsely branded as “War Criminals” caused them to suffer additional unnecessary emotional trauma which not only adversely affected them, but also caused emotional trauma to several generations of their own family!
When Kerry was running for US President several decades later, he had the audacity to LIE and call HIMSELF a “War Hero” and pay one of his former military buddies to do the same, the SAME honorary title that Kerry had DENIED to his fellow Viet Nam Vets, who were the REAL heroes!!
I brought up John Kerry to prove the terrible DEVASTATION that LYING SLANDER causes those who DON’T deserve it, INCLUDING George W. Bush!
Your ignorance and belief in pipe dreams is staggering. Stick to birther matters. Ask most Vietnam vets about Dubya’s “champagne” assignment during the war and you’ll get a non-partisan dose of reality. Until then, dream on.
JOHN Kerry did NOT lie.
We all know about Bush going AWOL and about him being protected against having to go into Iraq since that is old news!
I seem to be the only person to have spent a whole day in al-Beida and environs in 2010. And taken photos too ! Gasp !
The buildings in Masyaf ? Simple residential apartments.
The “mysterious site” at al-Beida ? Look carefully : you’ll see it’s just a marble and stone processing light industry.
It reminds me of the “secret” Syrian base at Adra. Even a casual observer on an inter-city bus can see a lot of it.
Hilarious !
nice for article, thank u
how are you know this ?
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yes they had wmds. yes they were moved. bush was right and justified to invade. bush was a great president. obama is a horrible president. obama is not a u.s citizen. obama is a socialist. All these points about are absolute fact and cannot be disputed. If you disagree you are wrong. Period!
We, Europeans, are sick with this american bul$hit about WMD – You started a war that took couple hundred thousand innocent civilian Iraqis lives – and You seem to be proud about this? How disgusting are You?
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Move forward 6 months and now we hear the Syrian military admitting it has chemical weapons. Syria doesn’t have the facilities to make chemical weapons. Doesn’t this tend to point to the even stronger likelihood that the WMD from Iraq did go to Syria? I’m just wondering with the admission that President Bush may have done the very thing that was necessary. After all Iraq no longer has Sadam Huessein and his despicable children around to torment their own citizen’s.
When Syria falls, it will eventually come out. I wonder about FriendofHungary. So much hatred towards the US, but no mention of Hussein butchering hundreds of thousands of Kurds and invading Kuwait, creating an ecological nightmare with setting fire to the oil fields as they retreated. Get real FriendofHungary.