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	<title>Comments on: The Myth of the &#8216;Widening Gap Between Rich and Poor&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: Hulon E. Crayton II (Lonnie Crayton)</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-583960</link>
		<dc:creator>Hulon E. Crayton II (Lonnie Crayton)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-583960</guid>
		<description>Everyone has made very valid points. Certainly in this economy, we can see the gap widening, as millions have lost jobs in &#039;09 and &#039;10 alone. With faith in God, determination to achieve, and those that create home-based business as supplemental or sustainable income, we can overcome the diversity set forth. Granted, we do in fact have issues with jobs being lost to other countries, a flood of immigration, and pay cuts, there is no need for citizens of this country to point fingers and blame others for their misfortunes. The key to success is in our own hearts and minds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone has made very valid points. Certainly in this economy, we can see the gap widening, as millions have lost jobs in &#8217;09 and &#8217;10 alone. With faith in God, determination to achieve, and those that create home-based business as supplemental or sustainable income, we can overcome the diversity set forth. Granted, we do in fact have issues with jobs being lost to other countries, a flood of immigration, and pay cuts, there is no need for citizens of this country to point fingers and blame others for their misfortunes. The key to success is in our own hearts and minds.</p>
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		<title>By: goy</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-204581</link>
		<dc:creator>goy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-204581</guid>
		<description>@44. David S: &lt;i&gt;- The answer is yes.&lt;/i&gt;
Not according to the available data.

&lt;i&gt;- Socialism does not mean what you think it does. Totalitarianism and socialism are not one and the same.&lt;/i&gt;
Very sadly proposed straw man, since that&#039;s not at all what I think, nor have I inferred as much.

&lt;i&gt;- Clinton’s term provided robust growth throughout the economy, with huge increases in employment.&lt;/i&gt;
Dead wrong. Clinton&#039;s first term stunted recovery. It wasn&#039;t until the cap. gains tax reduction in 1997 that the economy saw any real growth. Nothing Clinton did - other than sign the Republicans&#039; bill - did anything to provide growth.

&lt;i&gt;- The best way to ensure future prosperity is for unions to take a strong role in rebuilding the social safety net, ...&lt;/i&gt;
Absolutely wrong. You will never have a strong economy if business is saddled with the level of taxes required to provide everyone with a &quot;safety net&quot;. Europe is proving this for you right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@44. David S: <i>- The answer is yes.</i><br />
Not according to the available data.</p>
<p><i>- Socialism does not mean what you think it does. Totalitarianism and socialism are not one and the same.</i><br />
Very sadly proposed straw man, since that&#8217;s not at all what I think, nor have I inferred as much.</p>
<p><i>- Clinton’s term provided robust growth throughout the economy, with huge increases in employment.</i><br />
Dead wrong. Clinton&#8217;s first term stunted recovery. It wasn&#8217;t until the cap. gains tax reduction in 1997 that the economy saw any real growth. Nothing Clinton did &#8211; other than sign the Republicans&#8217; bill &#8211; did anything to provide growth.</p>
<p><i>- The best way to ensure future prosperity is for unions to take a strong role in rebuilding the social safety net, &#8230;</i><br />
Absolutely wrong. You will never have a strong economy if business is saddled with the level of taxes required to provide everyone with a &#8220;safety net&#8221;. Europe is proving this for you right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Dlanor</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-198586</link>
		<dc:creator>Dlanor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 17:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-198586</guid>
		<description>&quot;- If 5% of the tax-filing public earns more than 50% of the income, more than 50% of the taxes collected ought to come from that same group.
According to what, “ability to pay”? That’s nothing more than your opinion, based on a flawed ideology that has been a universal failure.&quot;

???  Much emotion!  Not surprising, because not all important factors are reducible to simple computation.  Hence, class warfare, often based more on selfishness than on basic empathy or decent principles.

A few concerns:
1) Folks making just enough to get by tend to become debt slaves to credit extenders.  Folks with capital above what they need to pay basic debts tend to have opportunities to increase leveraging as such capital increases, not necessarily by reference to merit, skill, or industry.
2) Folks who take advantage of opportunities for leveraging wealth are also taking advantage of resources they do not necessarily own, or resources in which all have an interest.
Such as:  Common environmental resources; access to means for reorienting public &quot;education&quot; and perceptions; influencing payback networks of fellow promoters and dolers of corporate welfare; influencing political means for keeping the working class utterly dependent.
COMMENT:  Who more deserves access to such resources:  The Vet who gave his arm and leg to protect us; or the sharpie who benefits from insider advantages?
NOTE:  Lib Socialists and Blueblood Repubs work in concert to keep the working class utterly dependent, Socialists more so than Capitalists.
3) Great disparities in wealth distort economic markets as well as &quot;political markets,&quot; and often reduce the dream of opportunity to engage in free expression (both in speech and in enterprise) to something not unlike a hoax.

BOTTOM LINE:  A principled position would advocate for Fair Markets, to be no more monopolized or regulated than necessary to moderate reasonable opportunity for all to enjoy freedom of political expression and economic enterprise.

To achieve this, both ends of such markets should be moderated.
That is:
(1) Governmental intrusion against business should be no more than necessary to preserve fair markets; and
(2) Consumption of wealth should be taxed progressively, to protect an otherwise free republic from the rise of a political aristocracy of wealth, ever increasing in its capacity for insider leveraging.

For protecting fair markets for economic and political expression against Lib and Blueblood depredations, we need to factor more than the Gini index.
Is it not obvious that the greater part of American society is being reduced to the mind control and benumbed direction of abusers on both ends of our political spectrum?
What we need are some Red Assed Moderates!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;- If 5% of the tax-filing public earns more than 50% of the income, more than 50% of the taxes collected ought to come from that same group.<br />
According to what, “ability to pay”? That’s nothing more than your opinion, based on a flawed ideology that has been a universal failure.&#8221;</p>
<p>???  Much emotion!  Not surprising, because not all important factors are reducible to simple computation.  Hence, class warfare, often based more on selfishness than on basic empathy or decent principles.</p>
<p>A few concerns:<br />
1) Folks making just enough to get by tend to become debt slaves to credit extenders.  Folks with capital above what they need to pay basic debts tend to have opportunities to increase leveraging as such capital increases, not necessarily by reference to merit, skill, or industry.<br />
2) Folks who take advantage of opportunities for leveraging wealth are also taking advantage of resources they do not necessarily own, or resources in which all have an interest.<br />
Such as:  Common environmental resources; access to means for reorienting public &#8220;education&#8221; and perceptions; influencing payback networks of fellow promoters and dolers of corporate welfare; influencing political means for keeping the working class utterly dependent.<br />
COMMENT:  Who more deserves access to such resources:  The Vet who gave his arm and leg to protect us; or the sharpie who benefits from insider advantages?<br />
NOTE:  Lib Socialists and Blueblood Repubs work in concert to keep the working class utterly dependent, Socialists more so than Capitalists.<br />
3) Great disparities in wealth distort economic markets as well as &#8220;political markets,&#8221; and often reduce the dream of opportunity to engage in free expression (both in speech and in enterprise) to something not unlike a hoax.</p>
<p>BOTTOM LINE:  A principled position would advocate for Fair Markets, to be no more monopolized or regulated than necessary to moderate reasonable opportunity for all to enjoy freedom of political expression and economic enterprise.</p>
<p>To achieve this, both ends of such markets should be moderated.<br />
That is:<br />
(1) Governmental intrusion against business should be no more than necessary to preserve fair markets; and<br />
(2) Consumption of wealth should be taxed progressively, to protect an otherwise free republic from the rise of a political aristocracy of wealth, ever increasing in its capacity for insider leveraging.</p>
<p>For protecting fair markets for economic and political expression against Lib and Blueblood depredations, we need to factor more than the Gini index.<br />
Is it not obvious that the greater part of American society is being reduced to the mind control and benumbed direction of abusers on both ends of our political spectrum?<br />
What we need are some Red Assed Moderates!</p>
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		<title>By: David S</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-196672</link>
		<dc:creator>David S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 03:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-196672</guid>
		<description>@67. Cybergeezer:

I understand that being exposed to reality disturbs you.  Please remember not to read my posts if you are easily offended.  Thanks!

Peace.

DS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@67. Cybergeezer:</p>
<p>I understand that being exposed to reality disturbs you.  Please remember not to read my posts if you are easily offended.  Thanks!</p>
<p>Peace.</p>
<p>DS</p>
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		<title>By: Cybergeezer</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-196602</link>
		<dc:creator>Cybergeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 01:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-196602</guid>
		<description>David S.
You&#039;re an effing troll from Huff-Po. 
Take your juvenile B.S. back there. You&#039;re boring us!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David S.<br />
You&#8217;re an effing troll from Huff-Po.<br />
Take your juvenile B.S. back there. You&#8217;re boring us!</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-196516</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-196516</guid>
		<description>It is also interesting to see people use and compare raw profits rather than profit margins. Once percentages come into the conversation - the socialists tend to shut up, if they wish to maintain a thread of respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is also interesting to see people use and compare raw profits rather than profit margins. Once percentages come into the conversation &#8211; the socialists tend to shut up, if they wish to maintain a thread of respect.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burke</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-196091</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 07:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-196091</guid>
		<description>A very interesting and compelling case. A related issue is the tendency of some pols to use &quot;household income&quot; stats to represent &quot;family income.&quot;  Median household income in the lower groups hasn&#039;t risen so much in part because of the changing nature of households -- more retired people, more single retirees, more young, pre-marriage single people setting up separate households, more single mothers, etc.  It would be interesting to merge these two approaches to analyzing the numbers to see what the reality is.

Check out my blog at:

http://thepurplecenter.blogspot.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very interesting and compelling case. A related issue is the tendency of some pols to use &#8220;household income&#8221; stats to represent &#8220;family income.&#8221;  Median household income in the lower groups hasn&#8217;t risen so much in part because of the changing nature of households &#8212; more retired people, more single retirees, more young, pre-marriage single people setting up separate households, more single mothers, etc.  It would be interesting to merge these two approaches to analyzing the numbers to see what the reality is.</p>
<p>Check out my blog at:</p>
<p><a href="http://thepurplecenter.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://thepurplecenter.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: HonestJon</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-196077</link>
		<dc:creator>HonestJon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 06:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-196077</guid>
		<description>Here, to me, is the root of the problem: GREED!  I just can&#039;t fathom how ANYBODY could be worth a $14 million bonus.  I&#039;m going to catch a lot of flack for this, but I&#039;ll say it anyway:  We, as a country need a maximum wage.  Not to bring the Richy Riches of the good ol&#039; US down so much as to bring the others that got a degree, work hard and contribute to a company up.  (Isn&#039;t the same thing happening right now with the executives of the banks and such (that accepted bailout money) having their incomes brought down to no more than the President makes?)

Just think:  The rule could be that within each company, the CEO (or highest paid) is not allowed to make more than 10 times the amount of the lowest-paid (bonuses included). So, if that dude is cashing in for 1 million a year, then his secretary gets no less than $100,000.

The moral of the story:  The CEO is still raking in the cash and now so is his secretary.  It means that everybody wins!

Call me a marxist/commie/socialist or whatever you would like.

Hang on while I call the fire department-cause I&#039;m sure to be flamed for this one!

By the way, I&#039;m a staunch conservative who has voted Republican in every election that I could since being old enough to vote.

Flame away!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here, to me, is the root of the problem: GREED!  I just can&#8217;t fathom how ANYBODY could be worth a $14 million bonus.  I&#8217;m going to catch a lot of flack for this, but I&#8217;ll say it anyway:  We, as a country need a maximum wage.  Not to bring the Richy Riches of the good ol&#8217; US down so much as to bring the others that got a degree, work hard and contribute to a company up.  (Isn&#8217;t the same thing happening right now with the executives of the banks and such (that accepted bailout money) having their incomes brought down to no more than the President makes?)</p>
<p>Just think:  The rule could be that within each company, the CEO (or highest paid) is not allowed to make more than 10 times the amount of the lowest-paid (bonuses included). So, if that dude is cashing in for 1 million a year, then his secretary gets no less than $100,000.</p>
<p>The moral of the story:  The CEO is still raking in the cash and now so is his secretary.  It means that everybody wins!</p>
<p>Call me a marxist/commie/socialist or whatever you would like.</p>
<p>Hang on while I call the fire department-cause I&#8217;m sure to be flamed for this one!</p>
<p>By the way, I&#8217;m a staunch conservative who has voted Republican in every election that I could since being old enough to vote.</p>
<p>Flame away!!!</p>
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		<title>By: David S</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-196060</link>
		<dc:creator>David S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 05:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-196060</guid>
		<description>@61. joated:

Nobody is denying that there is some income mobility - but look at the numbers and it&#039;s clear that the income disparity is the bigger problem for our economy.  Without a thriving underclass engaged in productive labor, capital is worthless.

Peace.

DS

PS - Many people move up one or even two quintiles during their most productive years, but most move back down as they age as well.  Less than 1 in 20 will make the climb into the top quintile from the bottom.  Even this is deceiving, because the disparity within the upper quintile is massive.

Just don&#039;t deceive yourself - capital is nothing without labor.  Keeping the masses productively employed is crucial for capitalism to thrive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@61. joated:</p>
<p>Nobody is denying that there is some income mobility &#8211; but look at the numbers and it&#8217;s clear that the income disparity is the bigger problem for our economy.  Without a thriving underclass engaged in productive labor, capital is worthless.</p>
<p>Peace.</p>
<p>DS</p>
<p>PS &#8211; Many people move up one or even two quintiles during their most productive years, but most move back down as they age as well.  Less than 1 in 20 will make the climb into the top quintile from the bottom.  Even this is deceiving, because the disparity within the upper quintile is massive.</p>
<p>Just don&#8217;t deceive yourself &#8211; capital is nothing without labor.  Keeping the masses productively employed is crucial for capitalism to thrive.</p>
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		<title>By: Dlanor</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/san-club/#comment-196043</link>
		<dc:creator>Dlanor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=45409#comment-196043</guid>
		<description>Should not some composite index normalize Gini trends with demographic trends?  Is not our population becoming proportionately older, even as the Gini remains stagnant? Folks tend to make more money in peak earning years.  If we have proportionately more folks in peak earning years, yet the Gini remains stagnant, that would seem not to be a good thing.  Combine that with growing chasms at the very highest incomes, i.e., the accelerating number of billionaires with disproportionate influence on our politicians, and I doubt this is healthy for a representative republic.  Not sure I trust your presentation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should not some composite index normalize Gini trends with demographic trends?  Is not our population becoming proportionately older, even as the Gini remains stagnant? Folks tend to make more money in peak earning years.  If we have proportionately more folks in peak earning years, yet the Gini remains stagnant, that would seem not to be a good thing.  Combine that with growing chasms at the very highest incomes, i.e., the accelerating number of billionaires with disproportionate influence on our politicians, and I doubt this is healthy for a representative republic.  Not sure I trust your presentation.</p>
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