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	<title>Comments on: Running Cars on Water?</title>
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		<title>By: fw1 shine</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-700142</link>
		<dc:creator>fw1 shine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Nov 2010 01:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>hey, i saw this car invention in the Philippines. the inventor was never given credit so a japanese company bought the concept and idea from the investor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey, i saw this car invention in the Philippines. the inventor was never given credit so a japanese company bought the concept and idea from the investor.</p>
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		<title>By: Tristan Yates</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-449149</link>
		<dc:creator>Tristan Yates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:57:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In theory, cars can be run on any type of stored energy.  But for an electric car, you have to generate and then store the energy.  For a gasoline car, the energy is already stored, you just have to release it.  Add in the fact that there&#039;s already the gasoline infrastructure in place and its pretty easy to see why there won&#039;t be a cost effective electric car for decades.  Even if we were starting over from scratch today, its hard to tell what would be the best way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In theory, cars can be run on any type of stored energy.  But for an electric car, you have to generate and then store the energy.  For a gasoline car, the energy is already stored, you just have to release it.  Add in the fact that there&#8217;s already the gasoline infrastructure in place and its pretty easy to see why there won&#8217;t be a cost effective electric car for decades.  Even if we were starting over from scratch today, its hard to tell what would be the best way to go.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Rostrom</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-448708</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Rostrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There&#039;s one other point which kills the suppressed-200-mpg-carburetor legend.

If this technology exists, why was it never used by Communist countries?

They didn&#039;t respect capitalist patents anyway, and they had no interest in burning more oil.

Or by Japanese automakers?

They might be bound by U.S. patents, but between patent expiration and parallel development, they could have built their own versions - and Japan imports all its oil.

Or by the hundreds of thousands of shade-tree mechanics in Third World countries?

Can anyone seriously claim that Exxon or Shell was going to sue every crossroads repair shop in Pakistan or Brazil or Tanzania that installed a magic carburetor?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s one other point which kills the suppressed-200-mpg-carburetor legend.</p>
<p>If this technology exists, why was it never used by Communist countries?</p>
<p>They didn&#8217;t respect capitalist patents anyway, and they had no interest in burning more oil.</p>
<p>Or by Japanese automakers?</p>
<p>They might be bound by U.S. patents, but between patent expiration and parallel development, they could have built their own versions &#8211; and Japan imports all its oil.</p>
<p>Or by the hundreds of thousands of shade-tree mechanics in Third World countries?</p>
<p>Can anyone seriously claim that Exxon or Shell was going to sue every crossroads repair shop in Pakistan or Brazil or Tanzania that installed a magic carburetor?</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton E. Cramer</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-448370</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton E. Cramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;I&gt;But make sure you grasp that the “clamor for more horsepower” isn’t just mindless and stupid.&lt;/I&gt;

More horsepower alone isn&#039;t a problem.  I have a car that gets 30-33 miles per gallon with the cruise control set at 55 mph.  



If I decide to use all of its horsepower (such as passing on a two lane road, or merging onto a busy highway), the mileage drops precipitously.  But I seldom do that.  A 2000 pound car with 300 horsepower, driven the way that most people drive most of the time, will get very close to the same gas mileage as a 2000 pound car with 100 horsepower.  Weight is the enemy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But make sure you grasp that the “clamor for more horsepower” isn’t just mindless and stupid.</i></p>
<p>More horsepower alone isn&#8217;t a problem.  I have a car that gets 30-33 miles per gallon with the cruise control set at 55 mph.  </p>
<p>If I decide to use all of its horsepower (such as passing on a two lane road, or merging onto a busy highway), the mileage drops precipitously.  But I seldom do that.  A 2000 pound car with 300 horsepower, driven the way that most people drive most of the time, will get very close to the same gas mileage as a 2000 pound car with 100 horsepower.  Weight is the enemy.</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton E. Cramer</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-448347</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton E. Cramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;I&gt;10**8 cars * 1.65*10**3 watts =1.65 * 10**11 = 165 * 10.9 = 165 GIGA watts ie one thousand more what you calculated. &lt;/I&gt;

Oh dear, yes you are correct about the arithmetic error.  Still, with ten million plugin cars (which is more likely in the near future), that&#039;s 16.5 gigawatts.  That&#039;s a lot of power, but still pretty minor compared to current use.  In 2001, we consumed &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/reps/enduse/er01_us.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1,140 billion kWh&lt;/A&gt;, or 1,140 trillion watt-hours.  Dividing by 24 hours per day, 365 days per year (8760 hours), that&#039;s an average consumption of 1.14 trillion watt-hours / 8760 = 1.3 x 10^11 watts average power production.  Ten million cars recharging at night would consume about 13% of the average power output of the current grid.  Since peak power production is considerably higher than the average, this doesn&#039;t look like a problem.  At 100 million cars, yet, this might be a real problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>10**8 cars * 1.65*10**3 watts =1.65 * 10**11 = 165 * 10.9 = 165 GIGA watts ie one thousand more what you calculated. </i></p>
<p>Oh dear, yes you are correct about the arithmetic error.  Still, with ten million plugin cars (which is more likely in the near future), that&#8217;s 16.5 gigawatts.  That&#8217;s a lot of power, but still pretty minor compared to current use.  In 2001, we consumed <a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/reps/enduse/er01_us.html" rel="nofollow">1,140 billion kWh</a>, or 1,140 trillion watt-hours.  Dividing by 24 hours per day, 365 days per year (8760 hours), that&#8217;s an average consumption of 1.14 trillion watt-hours / 8760 = 1.3 x 10^11 watts average power production.  Ten million cars recharging at night would consume about 13% of the average power output of the current grid.  Since peak power production is considerably higher than the average, this doesn&#8217;t look like a problem.  At 100 million cars, yet, this might be a real problem.</p>
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		<title>By: JFM</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-448031</link>
		<dc:creator>JFM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Clayton Cramer said:

&lt;i&gt;Most unlikely, since peak demand in the afternoon is vastly higher than demand from 11:00 PM until about 5:00 PM. Plug in ten million cars across the country drawing 15 amps, 110 volts each, and the total increase in demand is about 16.5 megawatts. Relative to the current peak demand problem, that’s not a big deal. Even 100 million cars (which is unlikely)–that’s only 165 megawatts nationally.&lt;/i&gt;

15 amps, 110 volts = 1650 wats 

10**8 cars * 1.65*10**3 watts =1.65 * 10**11 = 165 * 10.9 = 165 GIGA watts ie one thousand more what you calculated.  

Some problems become a big deal once you apply correct maths don&#039;t you think</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clayton Cramer said:</p>
<p><i>Most unlikely, since peak demand in the afternoon is vastly higher than demand from 11:00 PM until about 5:00 PM. Plug in ten million cars across the country drawing 15 amps, 110 volts each, and the total increase in demand is about 16.5 megawatts. Relative to the current peak demand problem, that’s not a big deal. Even 100 million cars (which is unlikely)–that’s only 165 megawatts nationally.</i></p>
<p>15 amps, 110 volts = 1650 wats </p>
<p>10**8 cars * 1.65*10**3 watts =1.65 * 10**11 = 165 * 10.9 = 165 GIGA watts ie one thousand more what you calculated.  </p>
<p>Some problems become a big deal once you apply correct maths don&#8217;t you think</p>
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		<title>By: John  "birther" Samford</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-447790</link>
		<dc:creator>John  "birther" Samford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The thing is, there are no &#039;silver bullets&#039;.  That cute little bucket of volts that works in New York won&#039;t get it for my cousin in Texas that lives about 40 miles away from where he works.  It&#039;s 20 miles to the nearest store.  Urban areas have different needs as well as mass transportation.  Rural areas have to have fast, comfortable vehicles. 
The real issue here is will the market place decide or will government mandate what people drive?
The Market place decided long ago that the petrol powered ICE was the way to go.  Have things changed so much that the market will produce a different decision this time?  I don&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, there are no &#8216;silver bullets&#8217;.  That cute little bucket of volts that works in New York won&#8217;t get it for my cousin in Texas that lives about 40 miles away from where he works.  It&#8217;s 20 miles to the nearest store.  Urban areas have different needs as well as mass transportation.  Rural areas have to have fast, comfortable vehicles.<br />
The real issue here is will the market place decide or will government mandate what people drive?<br />
The Market place decided long ago that the petrol powered ICE was the way to go.  Have things changed so much that the market will produce a different decision this time?  I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: OBloodyhell</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-447756</link>
		<dc:creator>OBloodyhell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt; Personally, I wish we would explore cleaner, cheaper, environmentally friendly alternatives that reduce our dependence of fossil fuels. Image what would happen if we could tell the Saudi’s to take their oil and shove it?

We can already almost justify doing that. Tar sands and Oil shales available in the USA and Canada represent greater reserves than all the oil taken out of the ground in all history. 

The question is, do we want to use the reserves now, or do we want to wait until oil is rarer outside the USA, worth 2x to 3x the current value, and we can become a net exporter with a huge influx of cash to pay off those inflated dollars we&#039;ve borrowed on so far?

You have to think longer term, and Americans tend to suck at that.

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; Personally, I wish we would explore cleaner, cheaper, environmentally friendly alternatives that reduce our dependence of fossil fuels. Image what would happen if we could tell the Saudi’s to take their oil and shove it?</p>
<p>We can already almost justify doing that. Tar sands and Oil shales available in the USA and Canada represent greater reserves than all the oil taken out of the ground in all history. </p>
<p>The question is, do we want to use the reserves now, or do we want to wait until oil is rarer outside the USA, worth 2x to 3x the current value, and we can become a net exporter with a huge influx of cash to pay off those inflated dollars we&#8217;ve borrowed on so far?</p>
<p>You have to think longer term, and Americans tend to suck at that.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: OBloodyhell</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-447745</link>
		<dc:creator>OBloodyhell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&gt; and the clamor for more horsepower. 
The reason people want more horsepower is that they like not having problems getting onto a crowded interstate. They like being able to pass a semi in a passing lane on an incline.

Foolish people.

You&#039;re welcome to have your own standards. But make sure you grasp that the &quot;clamor for more horsepower&quot; isn&#039;t just mindless and stupid. It has a rational justification which follows logically from certain precepts. If you wish to start with different precepts, more power to you, but that&#039;s not the only set of precepts to start from nor the only sensible way to weight the results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; and the clamor for more horsepower.<br />
The reason people want more horsepower is that they like not having problems getting onto a crowded interstate. They like being able to pass a semi in a passing lane on an incline.</p>
<p>Foolish people.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re welcome to have your own standards. But make sure you grasp that the &#8220;clamor for more horsepower&#8221; isn&#8217;t just mindless and stupid. It has a rational justification which follows logically from certain precepts. If you wish to start with different precepts, more power to you, but that&#8217;s not the only set of precepts to start from nor the only sensible way to weight the results.</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton E. Cramer</title>
		<link>http://pjmedia.com/blog/running-cars-on-water/#comment-447568</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton E. Cramer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=72015#comment-447568</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;You overlook another point I made, overnight suddenly becomes a peak demand period as well since you now have millions of vehicles plugged in to the power grid.&lt;/I&gt;

Most unlikely, since peak demand in the afternoon is vastly higher than demand from 11:00 PM until about 5:00 PM.  Plug in ten million cars across the country drawing 15 amps, 110 volts each, and the total increase in demand is about 16.5 megawatts.  Relative to the current peak demand problem, that&#039;s not a big deal.  Even 100 million cars (which is unlikely)--that&#039;s only 165 megawatts nationally.  

&lt;I&gt;There are a ton of issues with electric cars that are not addressed. In addition what are you going to do about the thousands of taxis that run round the clock? Do you realize how many electric cars a cab company would have to buy in order to operate with their current hours?&lt;/I&gt;

Do you realize that there can be dozens of different solutions, and they aren&#039;t mutually exclusive?  I don&#039;t expect gasoline automobiles to go away in my lifetime, or the lifetime of my children.  For many functions, gasoline engines are marvelously effective.

&lt;i&gt;In addition the so called “green” properties of electrics and hybrids comes into question as the process for making the batteries, the cost of replacing the batteries, the disposal of said batteries, additional power generation needs, and upgrading the power grid are taken into account.&lt;/I&gt;

Without question.  As long as the government doesn&#039;t subsidize production (as the environmentalists just LOVE to do), the actual costs of the batteries and their recycling will be a pretty good identifier as to the actual net energy benefit.

There is certainly a need to upgrade the power grid: nuclear power plants, for example.  Solar is still too expensive to justify itself (hence the silly tax credits), but at about $2/watt for photovoltaic panels, it is cost effective--especially for providing peak power to run air conditioners on sunny afternoons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You overlook another point I made, overnight suddenly becomes a peak demand period as well since you now have millions of vehicles plugged in to the power grid.</i></p>
<p>Most unlikely, since peak demand in the afternoon is vastly higher than demand from 11:00 PM until about 5:00 PM.  Plug in ten million cars across the country drawing 15 amps, 110 volts each, and the total increase in demand is about 16.5 megawatts.  Relative to the current peak demand problem, that&#8217;s not a big deal.  Even 100 million cars (which is unlikely)&#8211;that&#8217;s only 165 megawatts nationally.  </p>
<p><i>There are a ton of issues with electric cars that are not addressed. In addition what are you going to do about the thousands of taxis that run round the clock? Do you realize how many electric cars a cab company would have to buy in order to operate with their current hours?</i></p>
<p>Do you realize that there can be dozens of different solutions, and they aren&#8217;t mutually exclusive?  I don&#8217;t expect gasoline automobiles to go away in my lifetime, or the lifetime of my children.  For many functions, gasoline engines are marvelously effective.</p>
<p><i>In addition the so called “green” properties of electrics and hybrids comes into question as the process for making the batteries, the cost of replacing the batteries, the disposal of said batteries, additional power generation needs, and upgrading the power grid are taken into account.</i></p>
<p>Without question.  As long as the government doesn&#8217;t subsidize production (as the environmentalists just LOVE to do), the actual costs of the batteries and their recycling will be a pretty good identifier as to the actual net energy benefit.</p>
<p>There is certainly a need to upgrade the power grid: nuclear power plants, for example.  Solar is still too expensive to justify itself (hence the silly tax credits), but at about $2/watt for photovoltaic panels, it is cost effective&#8211;especially for providing peak power to run air conditioners on sunny afternoons.</p>
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