Rumors of the Death of AR-15 Greatly Exaggerated by Anti-Gun Advocate
Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center, seems to have a simple job: find the hint of a fact, and abuse it to craft bizarre anti-gun fiction. Such was the case in “The Collapse of the AR-15 Assault Weapon Market,” Sugarmann’s recent Huffington Post article.
The article brought guffaws of laughter or outright mockery from gun bloggers, who found the closure of KBI/Charles Daly not to be evidence of a market in decline, but an example of a company with a questionable reputation for quality failing to survive even during a seller’s market.
It is absurd for anyone to ever cite the failing of a new and minor player in an industry segment as evidence of the collapse of the entire market, and it isn’t very intelligent to take the claims of outbound corporate officers at face value when they place the blame elsewhere for their company’s collapse. KBI/Charles Daly tried to jump into a market segment with which it had no experience, mistimed their entry into the market, and misjudged their niche. It collapsed as a result.
But is there any truth to the claim that the AR-15 market is in decline? Yes … and no. It depends very much on who you speak with in the crowded world of the “black rifle.”
The AR has been around in various guises since the late 1950s, with its most famous variants being the selective-fire M16 rifle and M4 carbine used by militaries around the world. The semi-automatic civilian version is extremely popular with both civilians and law enforcement. Its modular design allows for near endless customization, and it can be found in SWAT lockers and hunting cabins alike.
By far the most common basic variant sold over the past 18 months is the carbine version of the rifle that features a 16″ barrel and a 6-position-adjustable stock. No doubt favored by returning military veterans and admirers of military equipment, the carbine closely resembles the compact M4 favored by the U.S. Army and some Marine units. These so-called “M4-geries” are sold by dozens of gun companies at varying price levels and they form the backbone of the market.
Tom Spithaler is sales director for Olympic Arms, one of the larger and more commonly stocked AR manufacturers. When I spoke with him, the message seemed mixed.
The market for the AR15 is not collapsing. It has collapsed …. when you compare them to the artificially inflated numbers we saw over the last year and a half due to the election of Obama. That aside sales are VERY good. .. They are not what they were just after the election, but they are still very good. We (Olympic Arms) are always able to weather these peaks and valleys better than other brand names as we truly manufacture what we sell. For us, it is just a matter of changing focus from one type of AR to another.
I was part of that “just after the election” AR-15 sales surge. I remember it well. Millions of Americans, conscious that we had just installed an anti-gun, anti-capitalism, anti-freedom autocrat with a case of malignant narcissism in the White House, were catapulted into arming themselves, whether for the first time or more heavily than before. We were aware of Obama’s opinions about guns, and the opinions of his henchmen about out rights, and we feared what anti-gun legislation might soon emerge from Democrat-controlled Washington. We wanted to position ourselves against the worst the Obamunists could conceivably bring against us.
It turns out that we were correct. Various Democrats, including The Won himself, have muttered about reinstituting the Assault Weapons Ban. It appears that our representative at the UN has committed the United States, in principle at least, to supporting the UN’s ukase on small arms and commerce in them. And of course, the myrmidons of various states where residents have decided to start carrying firearms openly, in keeping with local laws, are reacting with their usual jackbooted displeasure toward citizens seen exercising their Second Amendment-protected rights.
The AR-15 was a major sales beneficiary of this surge because it was a principal target of the Assault Weapons Ban, and because, among quasi-military rifles, it’s one of the best ever made: cheap and easy to maintain, almost effortless to operate, and abundantly supplied with third-party components and retrofits. The post-election interest in AR-15s was so great that I walked unannounced into a gun shop where I’d never gone before, and the counter salesman spied me and immediately said, “You’re here for an AR-15, right?”
Sales of .223 Remington ammunition also surged to an all-time high. It wasn’t just collectors buying these guns; it was Americans who were grimly preparing to defend their rights against all enemies, especially domestic ones.
It’s no surprise that that surge is now past. But the idea that therefore, this extremely popular, extremely useful rifle is on the outs is ludicrous in the extreme: the sort of fantasy only a Leftist could conjure. I can only wonder what his “therefores” might be.
Having read Sugarmann’s op-eds over the years (usually in the Washington Post or New York Times), I am consistently fascinated by his astounding ignorance of his chosen subject, namely firearms.
From this latest broadside, I now see that he is also so ignorant of basic free-market economics that he doesn’t recognize a panic-driven buying surge “bubble” when he sees it. We’re probably fortunate that he isn’t Secretary of the Treasury.
Of course, he could be on The One’s short list to replace Geithner when the latter finally becomes politically unviable. He would seem to have the necessary qualifications- that is, none at all.
clear ether
eon
A friend’s son in law has designed/engineered an upper receiver which takes extra complex milling to create, and has arranged for expensive milling machines to manufacture this receiver… he sells four or five a day.. of course he has his Fed firearms license… and he sells them out of local, small gun shops..
that is a big demand for a small guy… lots of AR parts being sold as well as complete guns..
remember, the RECEIVER is the part that has a serial number.. grips, triggers, barrels, all are interchangeable, but the part that takes the cartridge and detonates it, that is the actual ‘firearm’.
I myself bought no less than seven weapons of different types after the election. I think I singlehandedly CAUSED the firearms boom.
sugarman is not necessarily ignorant about firearms, he’s in the business of peddling “gun control” and he lies and distorts facts whenever, and however he needs to in service to his ends, making up his “factoids” on the fly as he goes along. much of the “evil black gun” hysteria is of his making.
Gunner makes a good point, and one that is very general. To imagine that unprincipled advocates are ignorant is to give them a pass on their ‘end justifies the means’ approach to journalism. They are certainly ignorant of many things, but will lie without hesitation because they believe it serves the larger good.
What? I know that in 2009 there were over 9 billion rounds of ammo sold versus 6 billion rounds in the best years prior to 2009. Try buying sporting ammo and you find the shortages continue and the rounds are being manufacturered at a record pace. I would think that gun sales increased proportionally. My guess is that people and the U.S. Department of Education (Why?)are increasing their purchases of auto shotguns. As OTP manipulates the appointments of the unqualified and unsavory he will go after ammo next, not the AR or the shotgun.
I am amazed that anyone thinks that the AR 15 market is collapsing. Anyone who has attempted to buy one of a quality barrel, Upper or lower receiver, knows that the wait for such parts is months, not days. The demand is undiminished. These new erector sets are the most versatile and functional firearm on the market. The demise of the AR 15? Not around here, and not anywhere else except in the mind of those who would like us all to be slaves.
Huh…I must be one of the very few who DIDN’T run out and buy a new gun after Obama was elected. Mostly it’s because I have no more room left in my gun safe. I don’t own an AR, but I have a Mini-14, a Mini-30, an MAK-90 and an M1-A1 in .308. You don’t want to be painted into just one caliber.
I would encourage every shooter to take up reloading and stock up on new brass, bullets, primers and powder. I am set up to reload a dozen different calibers and I hand load my own new ammo from scratch (especially really expensive rounds like .454 Casull and .460 Magnum).
Your all correct, including number 8.
People have spent millions going out and buying more guns everytime someone they (the NRA) dont like gets elected. They flash a bulletin out spewin lies about how..the enemy.. will come and take your guns, you buy more of em….then they (and the gun companies) laugh away as they count all the money flowing in. And of course, another 60 grand or so are shot and killed for freedom and democracy the following year…after year…after year.
They pray for dems to get in……cuz they bring in the money…now would you do the same?…..remember, it makes the world go round..
Well, if the number of pages devoted to all the various AR15 parts and paraphernalia in my recently received Master Catalog #33 from Midway is any indication, or my favorite local firearms supply store is at all representative, I’d have to say that Sugarmann is off by an order of magnitude or two in his description of the AR15 market.
Aw, geez, Dr. Dave #8: Please! No more calls for stockpiling primers, brass and bullets. Sheesh! The hording of primers was especially annoying this past year. By the way, the M1-A1 rocks. Don’t know why anyone cares that much about the AR15 and its clones.
I don’t think the ol’ “bootlegger and the Baptists” works quite the way you think it does, Poor Citizen (#9). You are correct to this extent, I doubt that the Federal government will ever be able to restrict the firearms market to the extent proponents of control would like – not that support for that will dry up or that parties won’t try.
I do not think even the Obama Administration is dumb enough to to make a law that is impossible to enforce. With all of the brain power in Washington those asshats can’t find 15 million or more illegal aliens that walk, talk, eat, and work illegally so how can they find millions of little rifles that live quietly in dark gun safes all over the country? The North East, Pacific coast and Illinois are the only areas of the country where the states would possibly go along with idiotic new gun laws. In the remainder of the country politicians know that they cannot get elected and stay in office walking through the Tulips with DC crowd on this issue. People will not quietly submit to this foot on their throats.
The old saw about the lips moving being a clue as to when XX is lying applies strongly to Sugermann.
I went out and bought my AR-15 after the assault rifle ban ended. And picked up some 30 round magazines. After the 2008 election I went and bought a bunch more 30 round magazines thinking they would soon be banned.
With the passing of healthcare and the new attitude of the Democrats seemingly thinking they have dictatorial powers, my wife wants one now. With the recent rants of hate toward Tea Parties and Conservatives in general, she feels like it is time. I actually think the latest legislative shenanigans is going to cause another run on self defense weapons. It’s pretty clear the currently elected officials intend to run the country into the ground at any cost. I’m personally ready to step up to a .308, it’s got a bit more stopping power.
Poor Citizen @ #9: 60,000 shot and killed? Where? Cite your source.
I hate to break it to Sugarman, a bill of rights hater and stalinist enabling,creep,but the reason AR15 sales may be down, is due to competition from cheaper libtard-vermin control devices, such as the ruger mini-14,kel-tec su 16,or the growing number of American made/assembled AKs.In addition the market for the AR may have reached its saturation point,leading to a shakeout of marginal manufacturers. Sugarman,is engaged in wishful thinking prompted by fear that the constant libtard assault on American citizens will provoke an armed revolt as envisaged by Thomas Jefferson.
The AR-15 type is collectivley far and away the best selling rifle in America today.
It outsells popular hunting rifles like Marlin and Winchester lever guns and Remmingtion bolt guns.
It is the epitome of being “In common useage” as Scalia penned in Heller.
This is nothing more than a cheap attempt by Sugarman to de-legitimize the AR-15. He knows what his is doing, he is responsible for the confusion between look-alike semi’s and full auto’s. In fact, he deliberately initiated the deception throughout the major media in the mid-80′s. See the 1985 Newsweek article “Machine Gun USA”. He and his minions are directly behind this fraud.
They problem for Sugarman is the internet exists today and his blatant lies are not allowed to stand unchallenged.
So Poor Citizen, if you’re an American your moniker is apt:
Instead of rebutting the points you devolve into conspiracy fantasies about gun companies and the NRA. And then you make obtuse remarks about 60k people dieing every year for freedom and democracy.
If demonizing the president is a proven way to bump up sales numbers, show me where there was a similar reaction in the election of any president prior to Obama. Where are instinces of Bushes 1 & 2 getting bad press from the NRA so as to boost arms sales? How big was the boost in sales when Clinton or Carter were elected? Was there a Reagan Ammo Bubble?
Who are the 60k people are dying every year for freedom and democracy? Do you mean the Taliban/Al Qaeda/etc who are trying to take freedom and liberty away from millions? You are against that?
Although I bear the name, you indeed are a moron. Make a factless statement and couple it with obscure references and call that thinking… nice style.
You are just a bigoted, prejudiced, self-important excuse of a human. Poor citizen indeed!
It’s not AR-15s, but MSAR makes a Steyr AUG clone called the STG-556 and E4. They’re backordered all to hell right now.
Remember everybody, the Obama White House had re-enacting the ban as part of their “Urban Policy” initiative from before the election, until around April-May 2009 when they removed that sentence from the official policy page. This wasn’t simply fear mongering on the part of some people, if you take politicians at their word (crazy, I know) the ban was coming. With a 60+ vote majority in the House, a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, there was nothing to stop them.
Those of us old enough to remember the 1994 ban, and those of us who came of buying age under the ban and saw mostly cosmetic limitations driving prices up were simply trying to get ahead of the curve.
Also, one thing to note: most of the manufacturers listed in the article are fairly small businesses, but since the focus on re-enacting the ban has relaxed, several large players have entered the AR market as well – Ruger and H&K to name a couple.
You also need to look at gun licensing rates, training classes enrollment. Various states are beefing up their pro-armed populace and firearm manufacturing laws.
I have seen anecdotal evidence of people paying the Fed Tax stamp and doing the paper work to acquire short barrel rifles.
There has been a consistent growth in the number of women becoming pistol packers and showing up at the ranges. If they get interested in rifles and shotguns there go the prices again.
@10. Odysseus: – By the way, the M1-A1 rocks. Don’t know why anyone cares that much about the AR15 and its clones.
Having fired both extensively, I’ll second that! Or third, I guess, counting Dr. D.
Next up: no doubt this will signal a general collapse of the firearms market> Because as everyone knows, when an economic downturn hits the general economy, that’s All Bush’s Fault ™, but when it affects the firearms industry, that’s because of “declining gun ownership”.
Suggestion: remember your Sun Tzu and resist the urge to correct these idiots out loud.
Marlin has been down the road as long as I’ve lived here and many people I’ve known over the years have worked there or have a spouse who has. It’ll be a sad day when they close.
I live on Mean Street last house on Right. No guns in my house come bust my door down.
Oh it was nonsense for sure. It was one individual company that poorly timed their entree and financial overextension. The mortagaged everything in a lunge for greater profits, expanding manufacturing facilities and staff, just as the parts supply dried up from spiking demand. They couldn’t sell enough to make their schedule of payments. Wasn’t a lack of market demand for their product, it was too much market demand screwing up their supply situation. The anti-gun dip deliberately misportrayed it as a ‘rah rah’ piece of dreck.
All while the nation buys more guns than ever. As AR- type sales shoot thru the roof (pun intended).
“Poor Citizen @ #9: 60,000 shot and killed? Where?”
In its fantasies.
Sales M-4 type rifles have slowed down, good more choice in the shops. Prices are down a little also. Some ammo is still a problem, .380, .38, .308, .45, .40 and 9mm. 10MM is impossible. Why?? Maybe, just maybe some people just don’t have to 1,000 round of each they would like to have in the house. Just an observation.
I wonder sometimes who these idiots think they are fooling. People who like firearms and the Second Amendment don’t care what they say so they must be trying to convince themselves that they are winning.
I am sure that Sugerman probably thinks that the stimulus is working,the science on Man Made Global Warming is settled,and the new government takeover of health care that will insure 30 million people who don’t pay for insurance,raise premiums by double digits,and massively cut the quality of care… is “deficit neutral”.
The AR market has exploded and anyone with just a little knowledge or exposure can see this in any magazine,Gun sales website,or 5 minute conversation with a gun owner.
Many people I know,especially ones that hunt, are carrying AR’s in place of bolt actions that they carried years ago.
Already having purchased a couple of 223′s back during the “gun ban” (when they were a lot cheaper by the way) I like many others, have started buying the 6.8′s,308′s,S&W 50 cal’s and so on.
Just look at the accessories sales for AR’s that are through the roof….rails,lights,scopes,collapsible stocks…..every gun show is loaded with AR variants and their accessories.
Just a glance through magazines like “Shotgun News” and they are loaded with AR info,accessories,and sales from top to bottom.
Of course people like sugarmann will ignore the fact that the sales numbers leveling off are a result of a high spike in sales due to the Obama election (most gun shops have a picture of Obama in them praising him as “salesman of the year”)but when it comes to the massive job losses we have incurred since Obama took office…well those numbers are “unexpected” and tens of thousands of job losses are now considered a “good day” by democratic leadership like Harry Reid….
…..go figure.
I bought a Charles Daly M1911 years ago, and it was a turkey, with annoying malfunctions. Once a good name, it has been dishonored by shoddy manufacturing and inept management. That has nothing to do with the overall market, as you have stated.
I think the M4 carbine is kind of a glamor gun, fun to have and show off, but not real practical in the long run. The .223 caliber is too small for any game but varmints, and the short signt radius and barrel makes the M4 inferior for longer range shooting. But one can always trade out the M4 upper for a long heavy barrel, mount good optics, and have a whole new rifle. There are several million in the private hands of enthusiastic American riflemen, and none of us are getting bored.
What has really taken off is that idea, of making your own personal gun, by assembling an AR with high-grade barrel, good trigger, and custom parts, that can have match-grade accuracy. You can even have several versions, based upon one lower receiver (the chunk of metal that has the serial number that makes it a gun). Each upper can have its own caliber and optics, and be switched for another in a couple minutes. So even when every American has bought one, there will still be a good market.
I’m working on a .243 caliber, based upon the AR-10 lower that was originally designed for the .308 NATO. Even in the People’s Republic of California, it’s possible to own an AR and enjoy it.
I’m with Odysseus- I own the M1A and have for twenty years. I also own a variant of the black rifle, but don’t like it nearly as much. My buddy, who transferred from my department to the Secret Service, bought a FN SCAR and a Sig Arms .223. He is a former Army ranger and a staunch 2nd Amendment guy. That’s right, like I said, not all federal agents are on the other side. Many, and I mean many, are former military and local PD. They know exactly the danger the government poses to our Bill of Rights. He asked me if I wanted to pick one up during the election cycle, warning sooner or later the weapons were going to face another ban. (which they are) I told him I had only two arms and more than enough weapons and ammo to fill both.
It is a numbers game the left is not willing to try and overcome…yet. 120 million gun owners and only about 40,000 federal law enforcement in all agencies including the support staff. They’ll cherry pick targets over the next few years, but an out and out seizure? Not yet. They will “nudge” gun owners into giving up their guns with taxes and fees. For example, once the government mandates your health coverage, they will hit you with higher premiums because you are at higher risk if you own guns, hunt, shoot etc.
The game they are playing is all about timing and how much you’ll submit to before they have to ratchet up the rhetoric and pressure. You all knuckle under like sheep and they won’t have to break a sweat. But say no and see what happens. Their angle will be to isolate, then demonize, then remove. It can work, if they remain in power long enough to put in place the foundations. You think things are crazy now with them ignoring your will, imagine the liberties they would take if they didn’t at least respect your ability to defend yourselves.
Just remember when they come for your neighbor you have two choices. Let them take him or not. Remember the famous poem-
“THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
They hope you don’t know your history.
read the book http://www.revoltthebook.com
As a free American, I celebrated the inauguration of the god-king by buying a Rock River Arms upper receiver in 6.8 SPC. I also bought ammo and other related items. I’ll do the same when Palin replaces this autocratic little dictator as president. These are wonderful instruments and reminders of a FREE people.
It is important to remember that guns are effectively immortal. I collect firing examples of military long arms, beginning, of course, with the 50-70 trap-door, up to an M-4 clone.
My trap-door could still kill someone as dead as an Indian shot in the Wagon-box Fight, and all those M-16 clones will be able to do the same in the year 2144. When we think about the numbers af so-called “black rifles” in private hands, we must keep in mind that these numbers are cumulative. My dealers tell me things are slowing down a bit. So what? The cumulative numbers are astronomical.
9. Poor Citizen:
Your all correct, including number 8.
People have spent millions going out and buying more guns everytime someone they (the NRA) dont like gets elected. They flash a bulletin out spewin lies about how..the enemy.. will come and take your guns, you buy more of em….then they (and the gun companies) laugh away as they count all the money flowing in. And of course, another 60 grand or so are shot and killed for freedom and democracy the following year…after year…after year.
They pray for dems to get in……cuz they bring in the money…now would you do the same?…..remember, it makes the world go round..
Mar 28, 2010 – 9:56 am
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Statements like this are exactly why you have no credibility here. Here’s a news flash, it’s not about guns! It’s about protecting ourselves from a tyrannical government that spits in the face of freedom and liberty loving Americans, you know, like the government we’re stuck with now! That’s what the second amendment intended. It’s not up for debate among believers of our constitution, only those among us that see it as only a piece of paper, to be manipulated to fit their agendas! It seems that Obama’s mind control machine has you convinced. Pity!
To Odysseus: let me clarify my position. I wasn’t saying anyone should hoard primers, powder, brass and lead. I encourage everyone to have enough available to meet your reloading needs should ammo suddenly become very expensive or hard to come by. All I need is a few hundred large rifle primers, a few hundred small rifle primers, a few hundred large pistol primers…maybe 1,000 small pistol primers. I only use about a half dozen powders and I try to keep a fresh, unopened container of the most commonly used propellants. I’ve got lots of new and fired brass and I try to maintain a couple hundred rounds of bullets for each caliber I reload. This ain’t exactly hoarding. My guess is that the Obamanoids will tax the living daylights out of ammo first, thereby making firearms and shooting far less attractive.
As for the AR…yeah, they’re fun but I actually prefer my Mini-14. .308 is a blast! I might add that there is something to be said for 7.62 x 39. It’s a pretty versatile round. Some rounds are hard to improve upon. These include 9mm, .357 mag, .45 ACP, .308 and .30-06. I enjoy shooting .41 mag. If I didn’t reload it I couldn’t afford to shoot it (or maybe even find it).
With the cost and spotty availability of some ammo these days it just makes sense to reload. Twenty years ago you buy 1,000 round wood boxes of surplus .223, .308 and 7.62 x 39 for a little over $100. Not the case anymore…
Poor Citizen…
…misses the point: He would trade in the tragedy of thousands for the slaughter of millions. Our statist pals – the ones preferred by Poor – killed well over a hundred million adult people last century… after they were first disarmed.
So Poor Citizen has a point… but what is it? Thousands ain’t enough? Hell, people like Poor murder babies in the womb – a million a year here in the US alone. Sorry Poor – year after year after year, the slaughter ads-up. We are into hundreds of millions of innocent lives taken by “compassionate” people who think as you do. Don’t lecture us, pal.
Unfortunetly my daughter was born right after the one’s election so I haven’t been able to afford any new guns, but my Mini 14 still works just fine. Good luck finding the ammo for it yet, darn all you AR 15 users. :p
Seriously though it is good to see one industry that’s still doing well in this economy, no matter who’s fault it is. The gun industry is going strong even with the bubble being over. Now if I could only just come up with the money for a Circuit Judge…
Let’s see, the market collapsed because the AR platform is losing popularity…
Smith and Wesson just started cranking out high quality M & P AR clones within the last 2 years.
Ruger just started manufacturing a gas piston varient of the AR within the last year.
Remington Arms purchased two smaller AR manufacturers and now builds and sells AR clones.
Colt firearms still manufactures the M-16 and M-4 for the military, and parts for civilian versions as well.
Sig Sauer, a stodgy European firearms heavyweight just started selling a gas piston varient of the AR.
Heckler & Koch, Germanies most famous gunsmiths, who manufacture arguably much superior firearms like the G36, MP5, G3, and similar high quality firearms started making the HK416, another gas piston AR varient.
It sounds like three very large and well established firearms manufacturers, and at least two of Europe’s most famous firearms manufacturers just jumped on the AR bandwagon in the last couple years, and I haven’t heard that Colt is stopping it’s very profitable production either.
If anything, the U.S. market is now saturated in high quality AR rifles and parts!
so that lead thingy comes out of the end with hole in it, like real fast right?
I’m sorry…my 2005 version CAR-15 and my two FAL clones (SA-58…to go with my two HB .308 bolt actions) don’t count, do they?
Poor Citizen may be slightly off on his fatality rates, but he is overall correct. I was once a gun nut, until I studied the gun movement in some detail for my masters in history a few years back, and I’ll take an orderly, safe society over a chaotic one any time.
BTW, a growing number of companies are screening applicants for gun ownership. My last consulting job was at a large manufacturer who got new, enlightened management. They informed all employees that firearms ownership was inappropriate. Management wisely instituted a complete ban on keeping any firearms on company property, including in the parking lot. Since this company does work for the feds, employees have to agree to allow searches of all vehicles. Managers would go out and look at cars. Any car with any kind of gun nut paraphenalia was subjected to a careful search, and if guns or ammo was found, immediate firing resulted. Other pro gun material would result in a negative evaluation. They also instituted a ban on taking vacation during deer season. A much safer company to work for. Other progressive companies are following this example including several companies that well read citizens would know(which excludes most gun nuts, granted). The union leadership is enthusiastic about this, and is working closely with the company’s leadership.
Some of the comments hit it – the basic AT / M4 isn’t that great a rifle. The barrel is too short, the round is too small, and the M16 family has always been unreliable. But, like the M1 Carbine, it is a fun rifle for the range. I think everyone who really wanted an AR has one by now, so price competition is really kicking in.
I agree with the M1A1 fans – M14’s were always in high demand before deployment.
Graf’s just delivered some hard to find ammo to me: http://www.Grafs.com
What people want is better, more modern rifles. I always liked the Steyr AUG and would love to see something similar in 6.5mm or .308 – maybe that new Kel-Tec rifle.
Yes and no. There seems to be a glut of 16″ AR’s and the price has gone below what you would have paid last year unless you walk into a gun store where they no have 10 or 20 they are trying to sell for 1100 when there used to be 2 or 3. Other than that things seem fairly stable price-wise. You don’t have to backorder a receiver anymore, but if you were a smart shopper and didn’t go for some new off-brand-get-it-now-while-you-can one the price has been stable or going up.
I bought a RRA 20″ stainless barrel in custom parts for just over 700 2 years ago, and I would pay well more than that now. The stupid fire-breathing 16″ noisy as hell non-stainless variant would cost me as much today if I ordered the parts. Prices are still up a couple hundred but you can find complete guns for bargain basement prices because so many people built the stupid fire-breathing 16″ noisy as hell non-stainless variants on off the wall receivers.
I just finished building about 1,400 HK93 clones for a dirt cheap supplier before this gun price bubble ended. The 93′s have not dropped in price but they pulled all production to in house – so a bunch of drunken monkeys will continue to make the gun but the prices have not fallen.
OT: if you are looking at buying an 93, take feeler gauge with you, measure the bolt gap and check the rollers to make sure they are not plus size with a small gap. I built to the specs demanded on the contract, and not to what is correct. The price you pay for the cheap price may be correcting the headspace. Of course the one I built are AWESOME! but for the headspace thing.
wow, poor citizen can change his name to The Gundertaker, but his assertions just get more non-sensical.
I say we allow Sugarmann to believe that he is right. Since the AR-15 market is in sharp decline, Americans must no longer be buying guns. In this case, there’s no reason to push for new gun control legislation, since gun ownership in America is obviously on the decline. Time for the gun control crowd to sit back, kick up their feet and pat themselves on the back.
As for me, though I plan to get an AR-15 at some point, I’m saving my pennies for something in .308 first. Perhaps an M14 or a FAL.
The Gundertaker: I don’t believe your post. Any company with that degree of privacy invasion and discrimination would be sued out of business.
#42 GUNDERTAKER: Surely you are being ironic ? If, not you are being moronic in that totally phony”concerned citizen”style, libtards affect when they are attempting to trash a constitutional right.Where did you get your Master’s from? The Lumumba/Chavez international studies institute and clown academy for the lame brained? You say:”I’ll take an orderly safe society over a chaotic one anytime”. You mean like Stalin’s Russia or Nazi Germany’s? Listen ,you lying cretin,one of the safest most orderly and FREE societies in the world, is Switzerland,whose citizens are armed to the teeth and keep assault rifles in their homes. In the US, areas with high gun ownership typically show far lower crime rates than the urban ratholes run by liberals, like New York City,Chicago, and Washington.Your whole posts sounds fraudulent,like most libtard statements about guns.Get an UNDERTAKER for your brain;it’s dead!Go back to agitprop school.
Gundertaker: “My last consulting job was at a large manufacturer who got new, enlightened management. They informed all employees that firearms ownership was inappropriate. ”
These are grounds for a discrimination suit. Please let us know the names of these companies so that the rest of us can take legal, political and economic action.
“I was once a gun nut, until I studied the gun movement in some detail for my masters in history a few years back, and I’ll take an orderly, safe society over a chaotic one any time.”
You should turn in your degree. There is nothing orderly about those gun-free paradises like England.
Both of my rifles are in military calibers, because of the foreseen availability of ammunition.
I think very highly of the AR-16/16/M4 design because, with all of its faults, the combat peep sight is, for me, very effective out to 300 meters. At ranges inside 300 meters, the 5.56 round is adequate for my purposes. I was never a real fan of full auto fire on the M-16, except in suppessive fire situations, but I always liked the fact that, in semi-auto fire, the muzzle of the rifle stays on target. I do not own an AR-15, mostly because of price, but I would like to buy one some day.
I am not a fan of pistols, mostly because I can’t hit the broad side of a very large barn with one. I am satisfied with my capabilities with a rifle, and the 5.56 rifle I own is handy enough and superior to most pistols, especially if the target is more than 75 feet away. Outside of 300 meters, I have other options.
I have been waiting months on back ordered parts for my AR build. I wish the market would cool down so I can get this project done with! Sugarmann is out to lunch.
“I was once a gun nut, until I studied the gun movement in some detail for my masters in history a few years back, and I’ll take an orderly, safe society over a chaotic one any time.”
The safety of society has nothing to do with guns or no guns and everything to do with upholding the law and effective policing.
Read this for starters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixing_Broken_Windows
So at least the atf stopped those machine guns made by the bushhilter complex at Air Soft. Trying to sneak in machine gun AR 15 as bb guns, shame on you people. All you want to do is murder innocent muslims. WHy don’t you shoot people who protest our constitutional abortion clinics instead?
I went to a gun show at the “Cow Palace” in South San Francisco a couple weeks ago.
It was “All AR, All The Time”. In fact, it was somewhat disappointing to me, since I’m not interested in an AR. I mean, it was downright silly – 75% of the tables were AR uppers, stocks, attachments and accessories, barrels, magazines (both CA “tooled” and regular), friggin’ mock-ups and air-softs, sights, scopes, ammo, etc. etc.
There were maybe a quarter to a fifth of the tables that DIDN’T feature AR-related merchandise.
If AR is “dead”, then it’s an unstoppable zombie kind of dead…
“I was once a gun nut”
And now you’re just a nut.
50 Dubya, Get a pellet pistol. You can practice in your home, apartment, etc. You don’t need a lot of distance; I shoot at 6 feet. It really tightens up the groups. There are lots of boards and forums to read and join.
If Gundertaker is actually pro gun and is trying satire, he did a poor job of it. He reads just like a Liberal, pro-guncontrol shill. (Dude, conservatives get “false repentent sinners” all the time.)
I printed the ‘Hello Kitty AR-15′ picture and showed it at work as ‘humor for the day’.
The men laughed. The women said ‘I want that’.
I am not kidding. Smith & Wesson needs to come out with the ‘Disney Princess .45′ and the NRA can close shop, it’s work now done.