Revenge of the Little People
“Ambition is not a vice of little people,” or so posited the French essayist, Michel Eyquem de Montaigne. When it comes to the sins of radicals, haters, and assassins, however, Montaigne would have been out of his league, since he traveled in the orbit of statesmen and nobility. Frank Rich raised some hackles this week when he spoke of a different sort of ambition: the type that drives lonely fringe dwellers to seek out and kill those who represent their deepest foes and fears.
In his column “The Obama Haters’ Silent Enablers,” Rich angered many conservatives by extending the discussion of “right-wing extremists” in the wake of recent scenes of carnage and Fox’s Shepard Smith’s analysis of the little people on the fringe who are “out there in a scary place.” While many readers may not care for the characterization, his musings offer a chance to look into the real nature of ambition and how it’s defined.
A far less famous philosopher — my father — was always fond of telling me that “you never worry about the dog that’s barking.” He’s just marking his territory and putting on a show. The dog you really worry about is the one who lays quiet in the grass until your back is turned.
No matter whether they are conservative or liberal, Democratic or Republican, our reference to “bomb throwers” is very much misplaced. The people with microphones and audiences may feed red meat into the maw of the invective machine, but you don’t see them taking to the malls with an Uzi. They have ambition, but it’s for fame and fortune. The ones we have to watch for seem to be the ones who are listening.
Five days per week I have the opportunity to moderate an online chat in conjunction with Ed Morrissey’s talk show. We are fortunate in having a host who is not only open to lively discussion across the full range of the political spectrum, but will tolerate no nonsense in terms of criminal activity, hate speech, or rumblings from the lunatic fringe. We have a standing agreement that the chat will not be dominated by truthers, birthers, or other conspiracy theorists. People are immediately ejected for blatant hate speech. Perhaps the most stringently understood and enforced rule is that there is to be absolutely zero tolerance of threats or doing any form of harm to the U.S. president (or anyone else, for that matter), even in a “joking” fashion.
I’m not sure if we should be relieved or frightened that, since last November’s election, we have only had to eject three or four people for violating this ban. None of them struck us as being serious or any real threat to elected officials. They were just exhibiting extremely poor judgment and taste. But it’s the other comments which I encounter on a daily basis that have me reflecting more on Frank Rich’s analysis. Ed Morrissey generally does an admirable job of debating the merits of conservatism over liberalism and the virtues of Republicans as being superior to the sins of Democrats. He makes the odd generalization about “the Left” but is often willing to cast aspersions at the Right as well.
Nice try.
Extreme politics seems to have become the new norm from here on out. Hell, I’m guilty of it myself when something really irks me. In seems to have really taken off under the Bush administration and with the advent of blogging. Blogs tend to be very one sided and encourage this type of extreme partisanship. However I still think the left takes the cake when it comes to nutjobs and extremists since I’ve experienced being on both sides of the ideological isle. I also believe that blogs have a huge influence on politics and the media now. Watching MSNBC especially is like visting the Daily KOS or the Huffington Post and watching FOX News can feel like visiting Michelle Malkin.com and yes Pajamas Media. To be honest I think most of the hatefulness and bitterness has been interjected by the left. When someone accuses Republicans/conservatives/right wingers of being imbred redneck ignorant Jesus freaks and Nazis I feel like shooting a similar barrage right back at them by calling them socialist communist marxist brainwashed ignorant America haters and brown shirts. Should I respond that way? No. But I feel like I can no longer be silent like Bush was and just let them hurl all kinds of hate at us. Now that they’re in power I think it’s time to do the same to them. But they’re the ones who fired the first shot in the war. And besides I think it’s healthy in a sick kind of way. It keeps politicians honest and spices up politics making it more controversial and entertaining for non-political people which will hopefully get them involved.
“Does right-wing political commentary really drive lonely fringe dwellers to commit hate crimes?”
About as much as Beatles’ music (“Helter Skelter”). By the way sheesh, who “drove” you to spout your antisemitism at PJM, or was it just innate?
Good closing paragraph. The big problem is that so much of what passes for political discourse now depends on hyperbole. “Baby Killer” would be the recent pertinent example. Talking points and language are important.
The choice to use inflammatory, violent and hateful imagery is a conscious one, with predictable outcomes. It is possible to have civil discourse without so much frothing at the mouth, or at least without the deliberate provocation.
Violence in the service of religion or politics is a very dangerous tool. When in the service of both, it is decidedly deadly. I don’t see this dynamic as a significant part of the left wing – this violence is a conservative and reactionary response to liberal society.
So long as belief in imaginary omnipotents continues, the deranged adherents of such ideologies are likely to find cause to spread the word by the sword. The only long term solution is secular government and education.
Peace.
DS
It’s too bad we didn’t have more people like you around in 1775 when those violent radicals Washington, Paul Revere, Ethan Allen, “Mad” Anthony Wayne(probably a frequent viewer of Glenn Beck), et al attacked the soldiers of our beloved King George III.
obviously fox news did not kill tiller. however the AG of of his state sure should have.indeed the cause of tiller’s murder was most likely the state’s lack of prosecution.
however, lets talk about real dangerous rhetoric. obzozo and his buddy s are clearly causing what will be the death of thousands. their sissy, ignorant nuances in pseudo liberal political projection have convinced every thug from Caracas to north Korea, with a long stopover in the middle east and western Islamic Asia that barry the bozo is not to be feared. the stupidity of contracting political power projection internationally when there are only thugs to fill the void is stupefying. how could anyone be so stupid. obozo speak will kill thousands. what will the idiots at the new york print then. eh? eh? print louder, i cannot hear you.
We can have civilized discourse only so long as the party out of power believes they have a real chance to return to power in the next election. The moment that belief is lost to an individual that individual starts shifting his hopes from the ballot box to the ammuntion box. Right now the left is in power. If large sections of the Right comes to believe either that there will be significant vote fraud in the next election or that Obama’s policies will render disaster inevitable before the next election there will be further violence. There is some tipping point of public perception at which sporadic violence will turn into civil war.
The parties have moved too far apart. Nixon and Kennedy had broadly similar policies. Both acknowledged Russia as an enemy and neither had domestic programs that endangered the social fabric in the eyes of their opposition party’s rank and file. The objectives were the same even if the means differed. The objectives of the two major parties are no longer the same.
Of course this doesn’t cover anti-abortion violence or ecoterrorism. Both of these causes have an urgency independant of the political climate since both infants and spotted owls are dieing as you read this.
The phenomenon of the political “hate speech” and its growth is one that fascinates me to no end. I believe in one sense that the internet has magnified what was already a trend that came before it, by amplifying the voices of those who say the most outrageous things. If you dislike George W. Bush’s policies, saying you dislike them is one thing; if you’re not running for office, you can say you hate him, and go from there. Each statement has to top the last: after a while, saying he’s just a Nazi is sort of old hat, so now he’s worse than Hitler, and should be tried for war crimes. Unfortunately for him, Obama is going to go through the same thing, and while your “Bullsh*t” meter works on the other side’s rhetoric, it seems to usually be completely tone deaf to one’s own foolishness.
The weirdness of this whole debate has gotten way out of hand. Society has essentially condoned people fantasizing about what would happen if the President was assassinated, the lynching in effigy of a Vice-Presidential candidate, and numerous smears and outrageous attacks on the person in the Oval Office. I joked a few years ago that if you looked hard enough, you’d be able to find the “Bush-hater’s Guide to Picking your Nose” at your local bookstore. In the next election you’ll have to look a bit harder to find the equivalent book about Obama, because (of course) anyone who criticizes him will be accused of racism…but it’ll be there, available on the internet somewhere.
The Left has their own set of public voices which throw the occasional barbs, but their more unknown followers in the rank and file demonstrate every bit as much hatred when the opportunity arises.
The differences between left and right extremism are stark. Shaw’s equivalence of someone who wants to see a vault birth certificate with someone who believes George Bush, while Governor of Texas yet, conspired with al Qaeda to attack his own country is illustrative of his inabiity to understand, or refusal to acknowlege, the differences.
The GOP doesn’t give nutbars prominence by giving them a seat in the presidential box at their conventions, as the Democrats did with Moore. The GOP doesn’t attend before the conventions of anything on the right nearly the equivalent of the extremist Daily Kos. There are no Durbins, Leahys, Feingolds, Schumers or Waxmans (and I could name a dozen more) in the GOP.
The phrase “Bush Derangement Syndrome” may anger our friends on the port side of the political ship, but it was more than appropriate. Sadly, Obama Derangement Syndrome has already taken its place in full force.
Given most reporters write hagiographies about Obama rather than report facts or provide balanced analysis it is hardly surprising to see strong language being used in the blogosphere to attack Obama considering his record: quadrupling the annual deficit, wasting billions on a non stimulative stimulus bill, wasting more millions fighting non-existent global warming, thuggishly giving Inspector General Walpin one hour to resign and not giving Congress 30 days notice as required by law, thuggishly threatening Chrysler bond holders and telling lies about the history of Islam – thus raising concerns as to whether he has any clue how to provide for the nation’s security.
Given Obama’s gross incompetence, of more concern to the welfare of the country is the Obama Arrangement Syndrome suffered by most of the media.
A more reliable html formatting system would be appreciated.
Hot Air’s system is wonderful even if their commenters can’t compete with those who post here.
These paragraphs are Mr. Shaw’s.
—-
The Left has their own set of public voices which throw the occasional barbs, but their more unknown followers in the rank and file demonstrate every bit as much hatred when the opportunity arises.
The phrase “Bush Derangement Syndrome” may anger our friends on the port side of the political ship, but it was more than appropriate. Sadly, Obama Derangement Syndrome has already taken its place in full force.
—-
What anti-Semitism?
With the current muzzling of the conservative voice by the MSM and this administration, they are only fanning the flames of those who feel they have no voice anymore.
When the Pelosi’s and the Obama’s of the world discount half of the country, they must expect and be held accountable for the actions of those who step over the line and lash out at those they see who are silencing them.
Unfortunately there will be much more of this to come. How can there not be with the country as we know it now be dismantled before our eyes? I weep for this country and what was.
Read a few liberal posts and see what the future holds and it becomes easier to understand why so many people slip into madness and commit heinous crimes. When an abortion doctor’s murder garners more press and hysteria than a US soldier being gunned down in cold blood by an avowed Muslim extremist? Well, that tells you what lies ahead for all of us.
My HOPE is for the next election to bring about great CHANGE. I have a feeling I won’t be diappointed.
Congratulations Mr. Shaw, you have managed to write an essay without mentioning the fact the latest killer, James von Brunn was not an ordinary Jew hater. He was also a Christian hater, neocon conspriacy hater and a truther to boot. Von Brunn did not act out his hat just because of his white supremicist views. It was only after a decade of oh so sophisticated anti-Zionist rhetoric and ridicule of Christians found such mainstream voices as the New York Times, NPR and CNN, not to mention the near Der Sturmer like stories in the Huffington Post and Daily Kos, that he came to believe his veiws were by a majority of Americans that he went out on his mission. It is funny how the story disappeared after it was learnted that many of those “rightwing extremist” personalities were on his hit list. Apparently his only sin was he was an old fashion anti-Semite insteas of the NYT approved chic Jew Hater.
Maybe somebody could ask Bill Ayers, that a$$hat loves to talk about “the good old days” when he was going around trying to blow people up. Perhaps he bumped into a very young Rush Limbaugh and suddenly got the urge to commit murder.
There is one recent murderer that was clearly influenced by far-right thinking, the Islamic whack-nut that decided to shoot up a recruiting station as his “mission from God”. But I doubt he was a fan of Fox News or Rush Limbaugh.
@ 4. David S
“I don’t see this dynamic as a significant part of the left wing ”
Ever heard of Stalin, or Mao, or Che, or the Khmer Rouge? All Leftists, all very bloody handed, deranged adherents to an ideology indeed.
Have you seen the videos of the anti-WTO protests? How about the truncheon-bearing ACORN-hired Obamabots threatening voters?
I suppose they don’t count because they aren’t crazy. No, they commit violence with a clear head and deliberate purpose which makes it OK.
“…We are fortunate in having a host who is not only open to lively discussion across the full range of the political spectrum, but will tolerate no nonsense in terms of criminal activity, hate speech, or rumblings from the lunatic fringe…”
This is well and good, but many times, when a host doesn’t agree with a subject matter, i.e. birthers, they tend to label them as “lunatic fringe” which then becomes as biased as ABCs Infomercial on Obamacare. Another form of censorship. I know, you’d suggest you’re talking about the extremists only but I’d have to ask extremist by whose definition?
It’s not the conservative talk radio hosts and Foxnews that stirs the people up. Let’s put the blame where it belongs – on an administration bent on taking more and more rights away and destroying an economic way of life in this country by their “redistribution” of wealth. That’s what gets people angry and stirred up. Would you have the sheeple sheepishly stand by and let it happen? Many are frustrated and don’t know which way to turn. They don’t feel their elected officials are listening to them. If they are unfortunate enough to have a Democrat as their representative, you can bet they are in lockstep with their liberal left controllers. While violence isn’t condoned, the fact is, there are elements out there who feel they have no other recourse. Putting the blame on conservative media is disingenous at best. In the end, the fault lies with the perpetrator.
If it weren’t for the conservative areas of the media, no one would be aware of the corruption and intents of the Obama Administration. We’d all be sitting around the fire singing campfire songs.
Sheesh, I wish I had so much time on my hands, and was so lacking a life, that I could afford to hang around political blogs full of people I disagree with and repeatedly troll every article.
The reason the left is winning at politics is because the right tends to have families and friends to get to.
The irony is that all the race-mongering that goes on by American socialists and “civil rights” activists, that tell non-whites that much of their troubles are caused by whites, gets a free pass.
I agree with seperation of state and church. But the liberals only apply this to Christianity.
Read up on Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA), a K-8 charter school in Inver Grove Heights, MI.
http://www.startribune.com/local/17406054.html
Also, David, you shouldn’t call people who believe in an omnipotent deranged until you can come up with facts for the big bang theory and dark energy. You do realize that Newton didn’t want to accept the big bang theory because it was proof that at one point in time there had to be a “In the beginning.”
The Big Bang theory doesn’t necessarily entail that there was a “beginning”. There is a theory that after expanding for a long time, the universe once again starts to contract and eventually contracts back into a tiny little pinprick which contains all the matter in the universe, which after another unimaginable period of time explodes outwards again with a big bang and starts the entire process over again.
The Big Bang theory, however, has plenty of facts to support it. That’s what a scientific theory is; a collection of demonstrable facts and observations that support a given conclusion. Theories can be modified when new information is presented but that doesn’t mean that the current theory isn’t made up of facts.
All sides have fringes. We have sheesh, for instance. Seriously, the discussion has devolved into two sides throwing bombs at each other and no one listening to even the best ideas of the opposition. The “other” side is not just mistaken on some issus but downright evil. I believe it’s an outgrowth of the 1960′s “peace movement”. The country wasn’t just wrong on Vietnam and opposing communism but involved in an evil occupation and empire. The rhetoric just got worse under Reagan and eventually commenters on the right decided to respond in kind. People like Anne Coulter and Bill O’Reilly, however, have their antecedents in Jerry Rubin, Abbey Hoffman and yes, Bill Ayers and Bernie “stick a fork in ‘em” Doern. Maybe it’s time to tone down the invective and language and start being nice to each other. But maybe these days that’s just too … conservative.
“Does right-wing political commentary really drive lonely fringe dwellers to commit hate crimes?”
Only if they need a good excuse for something they wanted to do anyway.
The “lonely fringe dwellers” who commit crimes are like the awkward, friendless high school boy, circa 1956, wandering around town in the late evening light with his pockets full of rocks about the size of a small tomato looking for a window to break.
As that famous Democrat, “Give-them-Hell” Harry Truman said, “If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen!”
Sure guys, lock the devil in hell forever, be rid of all of the, malcontents, criminals, sins and sinners, and we can all go naked back to Eden for a long free lunch. In the meanwhile, trust in Allah and tie up your camel.
@14. anton:
“There is one recent murderer that was clearly influenced by far-right thinking, the Islamic whack-nut that decided to shoot up a recruiting station as his “mission from God”. But I doubt he was a fan of Fox News or Rush Limbaugh.”
Perhaps you missed the last few murders by right wing “whack-nuts”?
Doctor Tiller killed at church by Scott Roeder (anti-choice nutjob).
Two Unitarians killed at church by Jim Adkisson (anti-liberal, anti-gay nutjob).
Security guard killed at the Holocaust Museum by James Von Brunn (anti-liberal, anti-semitic nutjob).
Police officers killed at a gun range by Joshua Cartwright (anti-Obama nutjob).
I repeat: “I don’t see this dynamic as a significant part of the left wing” There are no examples of such murders by left-wingers.
“Ever heard of Stalin, or Mao, or Che, or the Khmer Rouge? All Leftists, all very bloody handed, deranged adherents to an ideology indeed.”
This tired line, is way off topic. We’re talking about the “Revenge of the Little People”, not the delusional right-wing claims that authoritarian movements are all, somehow, left-wing. If you really think that it is liberals supporting authoritarianism, you’ve missed the boat.
“Have you seen the videos of the anti-WTO protests? How about the truncheon-bearing ACORN-hired Obamabots threatening voters?
I suppose they don’t count because they aren’t crazy. No, they commit violence with a clear head and deliberate purpose which makes it OK.”
I noticed you didn’t cite even one left winger who perpetrated a politically motivated killing spree along the lines of the right wingers above. Probably because it hasn’t happened. WTO protests have been generally peaceful until officers in riot gear get involved. Voter intimidation is certainly a concern, but the GOP’s purges of voter rolls and murders like those above are much more sinister, and much more dangerous to the Republic.
I hope that the GOP and her spokespersons will learn to reduce the hatred and intolerance that drives this violence. Failure to address this issue will haunt the party for some time.
Peace.
DS
Good points made here. Insane violence on both sides of the political spectrum should not be tolerated.
And the apologists for one side or the other should be confronted at every turn as well.
David S. said, “I don’t see this dynamic as a significant part of the left wing – this violence is a conservative and reactionary response to liberal society.”
I’m not going to get into a long-winded list but I would suggest that David googles left wing violence and others do the same with right wing violence. Seems like the level of violence on both sides varies with the times and circumstances.
You know what you get when you walk a mile in another persons shoes? You get a free pair of shoes! Just kidding. No, what you get is a deeper perspective. Don’t get too comfortable in your own shoes.
@18. Ms. Attitude:
“I agree with seperation of state and church. But the liberals only apply this to Christianity.”
Nice generalization there. As a proud liberal I would protest that I apply this to all religions equally – the prominence of Christianity as a target has more to do with aggressive evangelizing practices and the popularity of the religion than any specific objections to Christianity.
Your link on TIZA was interesting, but it appears not to be terribly different from the kind of ritual and activities I have witnessed in public schools, much less Christian sponsored charter schools. There are Catholic and Jewish sponsored charter schools that have analogous practices and receive public funding – and even ‘regular’ public schools provide time and space for religious activities.
“Also, David, you shouldn’t call people who believe in an omnipotent deranged until you can come up with facts for the big bang theory and dark energy.”
Really? I shouldn’t call people who believe in an omnipotent being deranged because I myself am not omnipotent? Science is a process, not an answer key to the questions of the universe. I expect that the observable phenomenon of the universe are best described and understood by observation, rather than revelation. Belief in omnipotent beings is a coping mechanism for humans that are not willing to face the reality that their destiny and decisions are in their own hands.
“You do realize that Newton didn’t want to accept the big bang theory because it was proof that at one point in time there had to be a “In the beginning.””
I don’t think there is any clear evidence that Newton had a position on the big bang theory – probably because it was not invented until the 20th century. Newton may have objected to the idea of a “first cause” because of the problem of infinite regress, but this is not an argument for faith in an omnipotent being. Moreover, the Big Bang theory is subject to falsification. Until belief in an omnipotent being can be held to the same standard, such faith is demonstrably deranged.
Peace.
DS
23. David S:
You seem to have missed my first sentence.
The Left brought violence to the fore as valid way of “political expression” back in the Sixties. Ayers, the Black Panthers, The Weathermen and the rest of their ilk thought murder and destruction was a perfectly valid way to express outrage, some still “wish they had done more”.
International terrorism was brought to us largely through the activity of the PLO and their friends, they were the “activist” arm of Baathism, which is Pan-Arab Socialism – hardly a right wing sort of thought.
My reference to the big Communist murder binges is that they are demonstrations of what happens when Leftist thought is left to range free. The big difference between Left and Right is that the Right recogizes the nutballs and they end up on “the fringe”. The Left raises them up and puts them in charge of places like Russia, Cuba, China and Cambodia. But as Stalin said, “The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic”.
I stand by my assesrtion that the Left is soaked in blood. They just do it on a grand scale and as part of national policy.
Anyone else notice David S. is sporting a gargantuan pair of blinders today?
ALL politically motivated violence comes from the right eh David S? Geez you are ignorant. Anyone ever try and shoot Reagan perhaps? Anyone ever try and bomb any churches in the history of the country? Anyone ever kill preachers or target the military?
Do you ever read anything besides the HuffPo or eat pizza whilst watching Chris Matthew’s leg tingle? Obviously not.
@24. ding:
“Good points made here. Insane violence on both sides of the political spectrum should not be tolerated.”
Well said.
“And the apologists for one side or the other should be confronted at every turn as well.”
Indeed.
“… I would suggest that David googles left wing violence and others do the same with right wing violence. Seems like the level of violence on both sides varies with the times and circumstances.”
Certainly the level of violence does vary. Even a cursory Googling makes it pretty clear the right wing has a near monopoly on political violence (1,740,000 for left wing violence, 15,500,000 for right wing violence) – but there is no doubt that the level varies on both sides. It just happens to be higher in general on the right. Much higher.
“You know what you get when you walk a mile in another persons shoes? You get a free pair of shoes! Just kidding. No, what you get is a deeper perspective. Don’t get too comfortable in your own shoes.”
I have nothing against a deeper perspective – I abhor violence from all sides – but there is nothing biased in recognizing the empirical facts. The evidence indicates that violence from the right is a much greater threat, historically and in our contemporary circumstances. I don’t think it is wise to insist this is coincidental. If the GOP wants to do something useful, working to stop this kind of violence would be a good start.
Peace.
DS
And still the haters of the 1st Amendment roll along. Amazing how all the faults of the world desend on religion. Considering how much suffering has come to the world from avowed athiests maybe that idea needs to be reconsidered. (Athiests like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot…)
Looks like the real problem is people. Just people. There are those who twist anything to their bloody ways.
Look at the Hootoo and Tootsies. Tribalism. How many millions has that killed.
But we see it here and on Huffpuff and various other sites. Blame religion, blame people who have different ideas. Villify people of faith, people who have pride in what their fathers and grandfathers and great grandfathers made here. I am sure you can come up with many other examples. The left is as least as good as the right at it.
See how easy it is to ojectify people .David S, Sheesh et al.
There are holes in the Big Bang Theory
http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Links/Papers/AAF.pdf
I meant to say Einstien not Newton.
‘Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind’. Albert Einstein
David S:
“It is possible to have civil discourse without so much frothing at the mouth, or at least without the deliberate provocation.”
“So long as belief in imaginary omnipotents continues, the deranged adherents of such ideologies are likely to find cause to spread the word by the sword.”
Do you even read your own comments?
David S: Just because some person who is off their rocker watches Fox News and then goes and kills doesn’t mean that he is right wing. The media is liberal biased, are all of the murders that occur in inner cities linked back to the fact that most of them are committed Obama supporters who approve of Socialism and have been watching CBS, NBC, ABC News? No, I don’t agree that they all are but if our media wanted to show liberals as nut jobs they could find those statistics and then make that claim.
@27. David S:
“Even a cursory Googling makes it pretty clear the right wing has a near monopoly on political violence (1,740,000 for left wing violence, 15,500,000 for right wing violence) – but there is no doubt that the level varies on both sides. It just happens to be higher in general on the right.”
Cursory is the op-erative word here. You mistake the activities of the MSM for factual data, left wing violence is not often reported as such. They are Activists not thugs! Many crimes originally thought to have been due to “right wing politics” prove to be mis-characterized by the media, and of course, never corrected. Remember the Election Day vandalism in Wisconsin when the GOP vans were attacked (only the GOP was the victim of this type of thing ….odd) and it was the son of a Wisconsin Democrat, the media knew all along but failed to report it at the time. A bias in recording data tends to spoil it usefulness.
Your sourcing is suspect to start with, Google has a long record of editing search results (and is still cooperating is censoring the access of the Chinese people to the internet) to favor their left of center political stance. A far better source would be the FBI NCR reports that go to some lengths to find the source cause for violence, but are still subject to the political climate of Quantico.
BTW the Google results first three hits for “Right Wing Violence” were; “Gawker” “Huffington Post” and “Muckraker” all left of center blogs. Just because you only hear one song in the echo chamber doesn’t mean that there IS only one song.
Bad data, no donut.
It’s funny this topic is in PJM today, it was a topic on NPR’s Fresh Air yesterday.
Here’s the link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105531867
29. Ms. Attitude:
There are holes in the Big Bang Theory
There are holes in virtually every scientific theory – it’s why science is such a rich field of endeavor. The Big Bang theory may prove to be fundamentally wrong, or may ultimately be basically correct – either outcome would be a vindication of the scientific process.
Religious dogma does not derive the same benefit from such self-correction, as it is purported to be received truth – falsifiability is the goal in science, and the enemy in theology.
I meant to say Einstien not Newton.
‘Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind’. Albert Einstein
From the same speech:
That would explain why I keep coming back here. Have a great weekend!
Peace.
DS
#33
Just curious:
Does “Bad Data, No Donut” mean basically the same thing as “Room Full, No Pony.”
David S.
It is sad that you don’t even understand what Einstein was saying.
David S. said; “The evidence indicates that violence from the right is a much greater threat.” That evidence would be google hits where the left leaning MSM is more than adequately represented?
You are an ideologue and so wrong on so many levels. That blind party loyalty of yours has as much to do with political violence as the screeds from talk radio and the blogsphere.
36. Paul from Hamburg:
It is a spin-off of the old standby here at work: “Bad cop, no donut” as a form for perfunctory discipline.
I’m not familiar with “Room Full, No Pony”, it has so many other interesting permutations that my choice seems rather poor now.
Wonder why David S didn’t reply to my pointing out liberal examples of political violence? Hmm…. Maybe he has to run it through his HuffPo filter first for a rebuttal.
I’ll wait.
He still hasn’t replied to my #26 post re: Ayers et al……
“lonely fringe dwellers”
John Adams, Nathan Hale, Ben Franklin, G. Washington, John Hancock, T. Jefferson, the list of lonely fringe dwellers seems to go on and on doesn’t it? Almost enough to make one wonder just why the word lonely was used? Projection? Despair of a lonely old man who has seen all his bright Liberal dreams darken and turn to dross?
Frank was born and raised a Communist, so he has spent his entire life in denial. Now the great hope comes along and instead of instant Socialism, Frank is watching his savior bend to the winds of reality.
S.E. Morrison captured the essence of Obama perfectly when he described President McKinely as a “kindly soul in a spineless body”. 1897 or thereabouts. So some things never change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_McKinley
McKinely was assassinated.
Since when is ‘ambition’ considered a vice?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Deadly_Sins
Greed is considered a ‘sin’ or vice, but ambition and greed are not the same.
Since sloth IS a vice, one would have to presume that ambition, being the antithesis of sloth would NOT be a sin.
In Law;
1. A defect; a fault; an error; a blemish; an imperfection; as, the vices of a political constitution; the vices of a horse.
Which leads one to wonder why you consider Ambition, the source of ALL advancement in the Human condition, to be a defect or flaw.
Maybe that word doesn’t mean what you think it does.
What anti-Semitism?
This anti-Semitism …
… the Reverend Jeremiah Wright kind …
David S.,
When you toe the party line to the extent you do, you are more apt to excuse the excesses of your compatriots. Examples abound where lefties stand silent as some member or segment crossed the line. I’m thinking Letterman and fantasies of violence here but the list is endless.
When the good people on the left have nothing to say about these events, I worry. When they minimize leftwing violence and verbal intimidation by pointing out violence and the like on the right I am reminded of arguments I had with my siblings.
I have a good exercise for you David. Get back on google and spend thirty minutes researching the five worst cases of leftist and righty violence you can find. Five each: contrast AND compare. Step outside of your skin for a moment and try to get the full flavor of the body politic. Write a little paragraph on each one. Don’t rationalize, don’t defend. Break out of the two-party paradigm and look around, man!
42. john samford:
I pray and pray for the safety of Obama. If someone were to assassinate him throngs of people would wait for him to be alive in 3 days. And then Biden, OMG, he’d be president and we’d really be screwed.
Re #46: OR heaven forbid Obama AND Biden go down at the same time and we’re left with PELOSI. Ugh. I swear it’s worth suffering until the next election. Not one good alternative in the entire bunch. Barney Frank? Harry Reid? It just gets worse the more names you throw out (up)…
“Lord of the flies” and King DohBama attracts plenty of flies…er, of course he kills ‘em if they ‘bother’ him. he-he-he
Bummer.
David s.
You seem to try to be dishonest with numbers. Why is that?
Look up Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, Mao and you will find over 200 million killed in the name of liberal leftist slaughter . In roughly 100 years. Communists have a bad way with numbers. Mao called it what?
Nate (7):
Absolutely right. The author says “For a rare few, anger quietly simmers until some unforeseen trigger sends them to the door with the hardware of violence in hand.”
While there are a few psychopaths who will readily resort to violence, what drives the majority of “normal” people over the edge is despair. I don’t believe what I believe arbitrarily, nor do I think that the rules and conventions taught by the Church are whimsical or hateful. Rather, they are time-tested and proven rules by which a society may be ordered for the best balance between individual freedom and the maintenance of social order.
So, what is a loving husband and father to do when he sees the government promoting policies that are not only distastful, but threatening, leading our society down a path that may harm his family? Hopefully he works for a non-violent solution, but if those in power resort to illicit tactics, then he may feel that he has no other resort.
10. Terry Gain:
This blog takes certain HTML tags, like blockquote, i (italics), b (bold) and the A HTML tags. (you surround them with > and <, and don’t forget to end with the appropriate closing tag).
David S (23):
Do you liberals ever follow references or do research? And you call us “closed minded”.
1) Read the article The Pournelle Political Axes by Jerry Pournelle. Note that the horizontal axis in his figure is reversed left-for-right from the conventional way of thinking: statists are on the right-hand-side, radical libertarians on the left.
2) Conservatives are not “right wing”, they are centrist. The libertarians and anarchists are properly exreme right-wing.
3) Similarly, socialists – of which Marxists and Fascists are subsets – are left wing, believing in statism. The “left wing”, of which our President is a member, believes in statism (see also Mark Levin) – that is, the full control of the market and society by the state.
4) So yes, Stalin, Mao, Che, and the Khmer Rouge are leftists. Not to mention Hitler, Mussolini, and Juan Peron. They are authoritarian statists.
5) And yes – we conservative are very, very afraid that our Great Leader and those who support him are leading us down the path of these other leftists. He is showing all of the signs; wanting a strong government is one thing. Blatently ignoring the Constitution and acting illegally (Obama’s recent firing of the IG Gerald Walpin goes against legislation that Obama himself co-sponsored) is a sure sign that a leader is headed for despotism.
6) Finally, please differentiate between conservatives and Republicans. They are not necessarily the same, and insofar as Republicans are abandoning conservative principles and prostituting themselves so as to garner votes we condemn them also.
Speaking of HTML tags, the first line of my post at #44 should have been italicized — it was a response to Sheesh way up at #11.
Just wanted to make that clear — otherwise it looked like a weird random posting with no relevance to the topic at hand.
Not that it was a major point. I just thought the cartoon was hilarious.
Carry on.
leftist violence
I would like to point out that Issac Newton was a practicing Christian, who very much believed in the Second Coming of Christ. Was Newton deranged?
lefty killers
Another difference between the “right” and “left” is that when people calling themselves right-wing misguidedly act on their convictions (or madness) and kill or destroy, the authorities and media (such as it is) condemn the actions. I have heard very few people approve of the killing of Dr. Tiller.
On the other hand, when the “left” acts the media and authorities generally either approve or ignore the event. How many stories have you seen in the MSM about the terrorist actions of the Earth Liberation Front or PETA?
“How about the truncheon-bearing ACORN-hired Obamabots threatening voters?”
If you are talking about the ratbags in Philadelphia I have to correct you. They were members of the New Black Panthers, and at least one of them was a Democratic poll watcher.
I notice this author mentions “Birthers”. Uhboma could put that “conspiracy” firmly into the “nut” category by simply doing what John McCain has done… release his long form vault copy of his birth certificate.
Until that happens the facts of B.O.’s birth are not clear. And it is an issue.. perhaps an overriding issue. Certainly not a fringe concern.
What is Obama hiding?
David S. A quick perusal of James von Brunn’s writings will show that he has more in common with left then the right. Let’s review the characteristics of his writing again.
Anti-Semitic: Leftwing
Anti-Christian: Leftwing
Anti-Neo con: Leftwing
Truther: Leftwing
Symptoms of Bush Derangement syndrome: Leftwing
You can find every ting that von Brunn said on the pages of the New York Times, see it on CNN and hear it on NPR. Of course it will be said with sophistication and charm but the hate is still there. Extremists don’t act unless they believe the mainstream supports them. It is fair to say that the views expressed in the mainstream media can be take as the voice of a large segment of the population. The MSM viewpoint only confirmed to von Brunn that he could and should act out his hatred. All he had to do to get favorable press was shout “Long Live Palestine” as he pulled the trigger. Then the NYT and rest of the MSM would have been making excuses for him. Once the MSM found out that voices of the right were on his target list they buried the story.
Newton and Einstein were right wing extremists.
Both Newton and Einstein were true believers and were divinely inspired. The whole argument about religion and science is bogus. The argument is brought about by fundamentalists from both sides that have no understanding of the true God to begin with and therefore take that which is figurative and try to make it literal and vise versa. God is a scientific spirit Himself, having created all things. God speaks in numbers and words and brought everything into being by speaking a word, laying the foundations for the world we live in. See how many examples of measuring and weighing you can find in the bible. Then ask yourself why He does that.
Then you’ll be on Newton’s path. He had to figure out a new math (calculus) just to describe what he was seeing. He discovered an expressive language of God, a language to predict the motion of things in the universe. Again God speaks in numbers.
Just remember that we are made in His image and look what we can do. We imagine something in our minds and how long is it before it becomes reality? There are millions of cases. We still do it by trial and error but if we can do these things in our imperfect state how much greater will the perfect be?
Ignorance is bliss for some but the more knowledge you acquire the more you realize how much you don’t know. It’s like looking into infinity. This should create humility and draw us closer to God to find the answers we seek.
We see and hear amazing examples of ignorance and arrogance from various people everyday. These are the ones who refuse to admit what they don’t know and that they don’t know Him.
He is still offering Himself to you, but according to Him not for much longer.
David S perhaps you can explain then why the three biggest mass murderers of the 20th Century were all Socialists Mao, Stalin and Hitler.
#12 “When an abortion doctor’s murder garners more press and hysteria than a US soldier being gunned down in cold blood by an avowed Muslim extremist? Well, that tells you what lies ahead for all of us.”
Yup. In the proverbial nutshell.
Don’t feed the David Schon troll. This guy lives in Portland, has a blog that nobody reads (I looked at it–long articles with more frothing left-wing idiocy and no comments, proof that the best answer to a fool is silence), and is probably a long-term resident in his mother’s basement. Given the amount of time he spends between his ignored blog and PJM, he certainly can’t be gainfully employed at anything more than a minimum-wage job. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find he’s an Axlerod paid astroturfer.
In short, Schon is another lefty loser who comes here to spout ideological idiocy in hopes of raising ire. His poor efforts at propaganda are not worth the time to read, much less rebut. The sooner PJM readers learn to ignore this attention-seeking clown, the sooner he’ll go away and leave the discussion to people who can do more than recite leftwing talking points.
One must first accept the notion that violence is unacceptable for any reason, except for the state of course. The states can use any violence it sees fir to use.
Violence is with us everyday, got ants? got mice? Got roaches?(NO!! don’t smoke them !)
IF we as Americans some how manage to get brainwashed that violence does not solve problems, then we are no longer American. History has shown that violence does solve problems, one way or another. It’s the reason for the violence that matters.
“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
This statement is just as true now as when it was written in 1776. Was violence justified then? But your contention that all violence is wrong is egregiously flawed. That words may promote violence is quite true. Listen to the people who talk rebellion, they are harmless.
“Blogs tend to be very one sided and encourage this type of extreme partisanship.”
Blackhawk, that is because of censorship. Cut off other POV’s and one side of the argument echos around and reinforces itself.
Sort of like a speaker system that filters out part of the audio frequency and thereby making what isn’t filtered seem louder.
Censorship forces the two sides apart, since they cannot exchange arguments and have a debate. The Left hated President Bush because he won the 2000 election. They claimed he ‘stole’ it and in order to avoid the fact that he won by the rules in effect at the time of the election, they halted debate by censoring anybody that didn’t agree with their fable.
So the right withdrew into their sphere and bombarded any of the left that entered with facts. Nothing worse for a Liveral Socialist then facing facts.
LOTS of WMD were found in Iraq. The people that moved enough Sarin to Syria to kill a few billion humans wrote a book about it. The evidence of WMD in Iraq is overwhelming. Try getting a Liberal too look at it.
“Even a cursory Googling makes it pretty clear the right wing has a near monopoly on political violence”–Liberal nitwit
Yeah? How about when liberal Democrats use napalm and atomic weapons to destroy entire cities? Does that count as political violence?
“I hope that the GOP and her spokespersons will learn to reduce the hatred and intolerance”
It’s not the GOP that needs to reduce “hatred and intolerance”, David S you hypocrite:
http://tinyurl.com/ce9bf2
@54. IP 727:
You are seriously comparing being spit on to being shot in the head?
I don’t see the parity.
The Malvo case only reinforces my argument. Religiously motivated violence, with a domestic violence angle as well.
There is a very strong theme here – all of the killers are very religious. In my opinion, this is often the root cause that enables people to engage in such heinous acts. Religious faith is a sort of self-induced insanity that can have unintended consequences.
Peace.
DS
Dave S:
Kind of like the false faith of Socialism which has resulted in the deaths of over 100 million people. As a card carry socialist you really don’t want to go there.
Dave S, you didn’t answer me. Because you couldn’t. The linked article shows that the Democratic Party is far more antisemitic than the Republican Party.
As for religion being the sole cause of violence, I never heard that Ayers was very religious. Not to mention Mao, Stalin and Hitler.
@71. Gary Rosen:
“Dave S, you didn’t answer me. Because you couldn’t. The linked article shows that the Democratic Party is far more antisemitic than the Republican Party.”
Not really. The linked article had no control group, and only examined one variable. There is no way to assess the validity of the results without additional information.
“As for religion being the sole cause of violence, I never heard that Ayers was very religious. Not to mention Mao, Stalin and Hitler.”
Again, the topic at hand is individual actors. If you want to talk about the causes and sources of large-scale political violence, that’s a different issue.
When it comes to lone gunman scenarios, the right has a near monopoly. I’m still waiting for an example of a left wing killer in the USA.
Peace.
DS
Dave S.
It’s all in the definition of leftwing isn’t it? James von Brunn may have been a white supremisist but you will find that his views are found in the mainstream left. All he had to do is shout “Long Live Palestine! as he pulled the trigger and you would have called him a hero.
White supremicists can be left wing and for the most part are. The British National Party is clearly a white racist party but they are solidly on the left. Their political program was to the left of British Labor. The truth is that anti-Semitism is a mainstream leftwing disease and alway has been. To argue that the Democrats aren’t the locus of anti-Semitism in the US shows that you are an ant-Semite but we already knew that.
@73. jerryofva:
To argue that the Democrats aren’t the locus of anti-Semitism in the US shows that you are an ant-Semite but we already knew that.
I always enjoy idiots who call jewish people anti-Semites. There is no evidence here of anything but your own judgemental intolerance. Exactly proving my point.
Thanks.
Peace.
DS
Dave:
Your answer is a nonsequitor. You fail to address the convergence of von Brunn’s and Progressive’s views.
If you are claiming to be Jewish then it is as a Jew by ancestry only. Your kind of Jew alway try to out-socialists the other socialists because you are begging to be accepted. Deborah Schussel, who I can’t stand, calls people like you suicide Jews because you sell out your own people and die in the end anyway. You are just like the Jews who went right along with the Party line during the period of the Soviet-Nazi alliance.
The “peaceful” left:
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/coronado.htm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004264738_webuwarson06m.html
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1303
“The linked article had no control group, and only examined one variable. There is no way to assess the validity of the results without additional information.”
That’s exactly the kind of weaseling I expected from you, “David S”. Nothing you say about the GOP has any “control group” or “variables”. Yes, this is just one statistical data point, but you don’t have *any* data points except a small number of random incidents you use to demonize the GOP. I can easily pick the same for Democrats, going back to Crown Heights and Jesse Jackson’s presidential campaigns, just to name a few.
“If you want to talk about the causes and sources of large-scale political violence, that’s a different issue.”
Change the subject when the facts don’t fit your theory.
@77. Gary Rosen:
“Change the subject when the facts don’t fit your theory.”
I’m still waiting for someone to share the “facts” that don’t fit. When the responses I get equate getting spit on with fatal gunshot wounds, for some reason I feel like my view is vindicated. Perhaps you have some different facts to cite?
Peace.
DS
What does he mean by little people?? arrogant that. those of us who work hard to raise decent hard working kids and don’t have time to jet set around lying & making promises to get elected .. the ones Obama sneers at and calls “bitter clingers”??
Didn’t one of the “big people” write a book about killing Bush. That was ok??