Reawakening Germany’s Nationalism: What Could Go Wrong?
If for some inexplicable reason you wanted to reawaken German nationalism, how would you go about it? I suggest a three-part strategy.
First, you would replace the rock-solid German currency by one with very shaky economic foundations, against the wishes of almost the whole German population (which, of course, you would not deign to consult).
Second, you would make sure that same population paid for the gross and dishonest profligacy of the Greek government: a profligacy that was rendered possible by the adoption of the very currency that the German population did not want in the first place.
Third, you would do everything possible to ensure that the crisis will spread, last for a long time, cost a fortune in failed attempts to solve it, and fall mainly to the Germans to pay for.
It goes without saying the second and third parts of the strategy should be against the wishes of the German population whose opinion, however, should be bulldozed aside as being of no account.
There are two great advantages to the strategy I have proposed. The first is that it would achieve what many people might otherwise have thought impossible: it will morally justify and render respectable German nationalism in the eyes of all reasonably impartial observers. Why, indeed, should the Germans, who have practiced economic prudence and providence for sixty years, at least relative to everyone else, pay for other people to live above their means and to retire early on high pensions?
The second great advantage of the strategy I have proposed is that the hostility it evokes in the Germans would be thoroughly reciprocated in those countries to whose rescue the Germans population, against its will, would supposedly have come. This is because, along with the German rescue, will come hard and even harsh conditions, such as that governments should reduce the number of drones that they employ. The Germans will be seen to have thrown their weight around precisely because they are Germans; and self-pity will not permit the “rescued” to see that they and their own governments are to blame for their sorrows.
With a little luck and attention to detail, the situation might evolve into war, first civil and then international.
It was interesting to read the French press during the evolution of the crisis. With its habitual Cartesian clarity, the French political class has spoken, all but unanimously, of the need for European solidarity with Greece.
What does solidarity mean in this context? Who is supposed to have solidarity with whom, given that four fifths of the German population (and a majority of the French) never wanted the common currency that was imposed on them, and that the majority of the German population sees no reason why it should pay for the ouzo of useless Greek civil servants?
The solidarity is that of the political, bureaucratic, and apparatchik class of Europe against everyone else. That class is reacting like someone who, hearing deep and ominous rumbles in the ground below below, tries to paper over the crater of a volcano.
Living 10 minutes from downtown Hamburg, I am able to keep my finger on the orderly beating pulse of the German public. I call it the revenge of the “angry ants.” While I can’t see Germany’s geriatric teenagers rustling up enough will to invade anything other than the local Biergarten, they are certainly more than willing to let their “fiddle all summer” grasshopper cousins in the South starve before they shell out anymore.
I do have to enjoy a couple minutes of Schadenfreude though; During the run-up to Obamacare, one of Germany’s large dailies treated opposition to the new entitlement programme as a “Fear of Solidarity.” When “solidarity” suddenly means passing out “get out of sovereign debtor jail free” cards to anyone and everyone south of South Tyrol, apparently Americans are not the only ones who protest. That being said, Germans have been tamed by nanny-state coddling. They have enough bureaucracy to support a standing army of 5 million but have only a handful of soldiers. Furthermore, since they are all unionized, their chances of engaging in combat again in Europe are quite slim indeed. In all likelihood, the most aggressive move they would make would be a unilateral withdrawal from the Eurozone and maybe giving Belgium a wedgie.
Jacob’s analysis is correct. As an enemy, the Germans had the most powerful and best trained national army on earth, which was only defeated by a huge allied coalition. As an ally, today, they are useless. The current Bundeswehr consists of comic opera soldiers dressed up in the uniforms of the mighty Wehrmacht, minus the swastika. This is not only pathetic, but shameful.
Think of it! By May, 1945, the German infrastructure had been totally destroyed! There were no operating water or sewage systems, no electricity, 90% of the buildings in the major cities were destroyed, with some 50,000 dead buried in the rubble. There were some 450,000 people without any shelter, there was no food, no fuel, and the entire transportation system was destroyed, including all main roads, bridges, railroads, and canals, and pipelines. There were virtually no crops planted that spring, and much of the livestock had perished.
The American Army, on the direct instructions of the great General Eisenhower, feed, clothed, and provided shelter for what was left of the German population in what became known as West Germany. The Americans then restored, at massive expense, the overall infrastructure, including the fuel necessary to run it. Later, the American Marshall Plan restored German industry at staggering expense. Throughout this post-war period, the German population was little more than a nuisance.
Today, Germany has a newer infrastructure than many great American cities, not to even speak of their comparably modern industrial plant! Americans, an impossibly generous people, not only tolerated all of this but strongly supported it! Today, the Germans begrudge a few Euros to Greece, a country they invaded and held captive during WW II? Frankly, the mind simply boggles at the totally vacuous European culture! In any case, few Americans have any illusions about the viability of Europe, which is non existent!
Yes, we rebuilt their country…and I don’t think they will ever forgive us for it.
Wait a minute: first you destroyed Germany, then gave it just some help to rebuilt. Do you know how many cities you bombed? No American aid could compensate for such a huge destruction. German prosperity is due first of all to the hard working Germans themselves.
German prosperity is due first of all to the hard working Germans themselves.
I agree but the money they hid in South America during the war was helpful as well.
Reinout. In the words of Basil Fawltey “You started it”
just wonderinh where you got your informations about germany from….
in may 45 the infrastructure was destroyed but the industrial capacity still was at 80% of the pre war level (output was near nil as you rightly stated the infrastructure was destroyed).
“The American Army, on the direct instructions of the great General Eisenhower” implemented the JCS 1067- the Morgentau Plan!! Your schoolbooks state something else, but you can check official US documents: 1000 copies of the plan were distributed to american officers as guideline for the implementation and Morgentau himself hold a party in his office acknowledging the JCS 1067 as implementation of his plan. As planed the german industrial capacity was dismantled (as late as 1949 the britsh for example destroyed a shipyard in hamburg), up to 1,5 million germans died from lack of food and diseases.
Only in autumn 1946 in the famous “speech of hope” the american military acknowledged that if the population would continue to starve at the same pace ´´there is no alternative between beeing a communist with 1500 calories a day and democrat with 1000 calories“.
infrastructure was rebuild at german expense and the yearly cost for the occupation was 3 times higher than all of the marshall plan money.
“Throughout this post-war period, the German population was little more than a nuisance” and they also came up with over 2 trillions of $ for eastern germany….. and still nothing- my hope is that the taxpayers march on berlin/washington to get rid of their politicians.
Where’s the accountability that permits the engineers of this train-wreck of the “Euro Economy” to retire into their ivory towers and personal estates, with perks for their “service to the nation”? While citizens they contrived to humiliate and degrade with their unworkable programs for their “place in history” and in the political elite gentlemen’s clubs must lose jobs, homes,savings, and futures for their children which they earned by their personal responsibility. What was going on the in “minds”? of the planners, the designers of this Union who must have been able to see what any 3rd grader could. There was no way short of armed compulsion to unite northern and southern Europe, with their long national and cultural histories, and traditional animosities. Such a “union” is possible only when the populations are bribed or threatened. But as with all blackmail, the price gets heavier and heavier until it can no longer be paid. Et Voila….. AND NOW the Americans have “elected” a group of persons with the same designs on their country. Can’t say they weren’t warned. They just did not want to know. Carpe diem
The thing about the wasted money is that most Germans actually don’t have any — wages have been severely depressed those last few years and taxes have taken about 60% of what little people make, and every German knows that their state pensions they have been forced to ‘pay’ into aren’t going to happen either, but this is old news ever since the 80′s.
Also, the vast majority of our boomers (the ones who will be left to starve when it goes kaputt) are demented Gutmensch hippies who totally have lost the plot and any ability to defend themselves, so they aren’t going to fight anything or anyone. There are not too many young people nowadays, and in any case, most of them are looking to emigrate.
The only civil war that is going to occur is between immigrant Turks and indigenous Germans (as predicted by the CIA a fews years ago), but that is a totally different topic, which will be acute in about 10 years time when their kids (already 30% of all birth) are of fighting age or when the money runs out for the social security payments to them — whichever is sooner. And the Germans are going to lose this one — the police already doesn’t dare to venture into many parts of Germany (nor do ordinary Germans), there just isn’t anyone who would fight or even see a point in fighting, the Blut und Boden mentality died out long ago — in 1945.
The idea that Germany is going to reawaken it’s nationalism is just not going to happen, because there is no circumstances in which it can — the vast majority of Germans are ashamed to be German and conditioned to accept the inherited guilt from the National Socialists and to hate themselves for the sins of their grandparents. So, there just doesn’t exist a culture in which any nationalist movement could take off.
Darymple… Thema verfehlt, setzen, sechs.
@RightwingHippyChick
unfortunately I have to agree with your acessment: some 200 000 bright professionals are leaving germany every year and mosz of the immigrants are almost illiterate.
The biggest ultranationalistic organisation are the turkish grey wolves.
Darymples and the general british fixation on german nationalism just proves that they also had their share of reeducation after WW2…..
Darymple… Thema verfehlt, setzen, sechs and start writing about the idiotic indoctrination in schools that seems the real problem
German Americans comprise about 51 million people, or 17% of the U.S. population, the country’s largest self-reported ancestral group. {wiki}
I imagine that there are those who fear “german” nationalism, as if it is the only country who would turn it into a sharp knife(or a crude club). They aren’t the only ones.
look what milgram and zimbardo did with yale and stanford students…
we have an entire political party who offers that the secret of addressing debt, is to go further into debt, and we are supposed to pretend they are serious?
If Greece beggars the Germans, Germany will dispatch a few divisions of highly trained, identically dressed, male tourists to “sightsee” Greece on an extended Blitzreise.
I don’t believe any of this will end in wholesale violence across Europe. Hell, except for the Brits no one knows how to fight.
Well, there are larger and larger proportions of Europeans of a certain persuasion who are ready to fight. With a different know-how, though.
Kipling claimed that the Russian’s Main Error was to consider themselves
the easternmost European nation, rather than the westernmost Asian nation;
What do you think. ?
1. “Knowing how to fight” and “willing to fight” are not the same thing. Many a bloody war was started with cocky young recruits with sports field ‘courage’ who were off for a lark and “back by Christmas”.
2. A lot of wars have been fought by combatants who did not know how to fight when the war began, but who sure knew all about it by the time it was over.
This is not to say that there will be a war, just that not knowing how to fight is not a reason that there will not be one.
“” A lot of wars have been fought by combatants who did not know how to fight when the war began, but who sure knew all about it by the time it was over. “”
Every modern war has been fought and won by (most often American and British Commonwealth and Empire) Men (Australians, South and East Africans, New Zealanders and the like and – long ago – by pre-totalitarian Canadians) who fit that description.
Well, maybe I should have clarified that it’s new Europeans, who do not share the European cultural and religious heritage. And that they have a peculiar taste for blowing themselves up in the midst of civilians. Not that it’s their only know-how in matters of fighting.
oh, I see a bitter compatriot there, eh Bern do these “Muslims, oh sacrilège! blow themselve in our country ? que nenni ! is it because our anti-terrorism organisation is effective, or because the moderate sunni variance cult, Malekism, of our Maghrebin isn’t promoting suicide ?
uh, where is your clou ?
The Germans know how to fight; it is just that they are antiwar for obvious reasons.We must hope for all out sakes that they remain so.
Remain so? Are you serious? Europe is on the verge of demographic collapse among its native peoples while the enemy within is rapidly reproducing. Most European nations are still overwhelmingly native but when you look at the demographics by age group you will notice that the younger the demographic, the higher the proportion of non-natives. And unfortunately for the pacifist Euros, the non-natives are decidedly NOT pacifists and still harbor dreams of conquering Europe that were first dashed at Poitier in 732. Islam is in Europe to conquer it and it will do so if the Europeans don’t get over their Liberal guilt. It’s pathetic and weak.
You’re correct, Eric. Now let’s ger rid of this insidious and unproductive guilt.
Pedro I think members of the Russian Army in WW11 would tell you otherwise about the Germans ability to fight. The USA likes to kid itself it won WW11 in Europe, in Japan maybe, but in reality it was the RUSSIANS who fought the WHOLE might of the German Army the Allies merely played with those on R and R in the West.
Yes, the Red Army gradually whittled down the German Army. One of the reasons they were able to do so was because of Lend-Lease from the Americans: airplanes, tanks, aviation fuel, trucks, uniforms, food. In addition, the allies kept the Germans busy in Africa and Italy, in the Air, and on the Sea. It took the western allies AND the Soviets to bring down the Germans. Neither side could have done it alone.
WWI and WWII represent the ultimate example of the “podium finish”. Don’t forget the allied forces fought without the US in both cases for several years before the US reluctantly stepped into the fight.
Thank God they did, but let’s not imagine it was the Sovs and the Yanks who did all the fighting, MATE.
And who said it was only the Russians and Americans?
And whose side were the Russians on initially? Why, they had a pact with the Germans. If it’s true that they did the bulk of the fighting against the Germans, then that is what they owe to the rest of us for having been allied with them in the first place.
And the Russians only had the “luxury” of being able to devote all their attention to the Germans because their threat to the east, namely Japan, was occupied with the Americans. At this point it’s definitely ridiculous for any of us to get into p*ssing matches about who bloodied whose nose the best, because if we don’t all wake up real soon we’re going to realize that the true victor of WWII was Islam.
yes, I noticed how well the ruskies kicked butt in Afghanistan, are these the ruskeis you are talking about?
In your dream jack.
If you push people hard enough, if they feel they have been significantly wronged and exploited… they will eventually push back. The Germans pushed back in WWII, If you don’t realise that the originating source of that angst was the WWI reparations that squeezed Germans, flowing into the Depression, then you probably DO believe that this can’t end in violence.
Those who don’t study history, are doomed to repeat it.
Who won the war(s)…the side that was still standing at the end.
But, when the next one comes, this Yank will probably, at the most, offer to hold your coat, Thank You very much.
And, when it comes time to restack the rubble, you’re on your own.
well, lets hope they feel squeezed enough and start some civil unrest.
if you would ask any ordinary german he would rather send a panzer division against his government in berlin than against athens.
evidently, for the regular joe here, the enemy of the german people sits in berlin/bruxelles
Now is the time for the UK to reverse the BIG mistake it made in 1904 in allying itself to France.
Now is the time for the UK to reverse the BIG mistake it made in 1904 in allying itself to France.
That is if you like to speak German. UK actually England has been kept safe by sticking to two sound pronciples.
First: Ever oppose any European power trying to build a Navy stronger than its own.
Second: Ever oppose the strongest continental power and try to cause trouble for it in order to prevent it from building a Navy.
So in 1914 Germany (whose GNP was about double than UK’s ie could fund twice as many ships) was building a Navy who was quickly catching up with the Royal Navy with plans to make it more powerful than it. It was Europe’s dominant power and was on the path to destroy France thus freeing resources for a still more powerful Navy.
The mistake wasn’t allying to France but having been unable to get rid of the people who had been defeated by the Zulus first and later time and again by the Boers.
I must have missed something – I thought we defeated the Zulus and the Boers – eventually!
Michael, JFM is the expert of Navy history, what he ment, is that the Brits should have anihilited the teutonic will power for ever !
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lothar_von_Trotha
where are leaders like Churchill, De Gaulle, when we badly need them again !
Can’t talk about Eurocrap without France in the picture. And since here we are talking about European fleets and naval power (and fortitude & couragE) we have to mention the glory of France… again… the sabordage of the Toulon fleet in 1944 …
Had that helped Germany… it sure did… Vive la France! Vive la France!
You ended winning the war against the Zulus, but you lost at Isandwana and Hlobane (that is at least one defeat too much) and had to bring forces from all of the Empire probably fielding more troops than the Zulus. A numerically superior force armed with rifles, artillery and Gatling guns against Asegai armed Zulus. So technically you won but it was like when Mussolini’s Italy had to put everything (combat gasses included) to defeat Ethiopia. We all know how well the Italian Army fared in WWII.
For the Boers I tend to think that it was more the Dominion troops with their flexible tactics and out of the box thinking than the rigid British ones who defeated the Boer commandos. BTW: The Boers had better artillery. What was supposed to be a great power wasn’t able to provide as good artillery than a bunch of farmers were providing to theirs.
So the UK entered WWI with an Army led by mental midgets (“an army of lions led by donkeys”) and a mix of incompetency and intellectual laziness (who were also a hailmark of WWII) led to British units having less artillery and far fewer ammo than their French counterparts until nearly 1917 (it was Churchill’s action who cured the ammo problem). That is the UK took over two years to provide to its troops what France whose industry was only half UK’s size was providing to its own. So the problem was far deeper than just bad generals, it speaks poorly about the whole British elites.
you go boy !
More succinctly, there wasn’t even a “British Army” at the beginning of WWI(!) There was a tiny “British Expeditionary Force” only. Britain had simply never needed to maintain a large standing army given the unquestioned supremacy of her Navy (and the ability of her Navy to act as an “army at sea”).
So, while I’m far from being an Anglophile, one nevertheless has to compliment the British on raising an army of millions from an “Expeditionary Force” of, I believe not much more than 100,000 in relatively short order. In addition, those fresh recruits had to be trained!
But you did make a point earlier that I was really surprised at — and which certainly casts a clear light on why Britain felt they had to enter WWI — the point about the ratio of GDPs of Britain vs Germany being 1:2. — amazing!
The successful tactics to fight effectively against the rate of fire and extreme range of Paul Mauser’s outstandingly designed and built modern magazine fed rifles (the Boer War was the first war involving them), were almost entirely down to the City of London Mounted Light Infantry, and Redvers Buller.
Buller had spared as many casualties as possible, while this extremely difficult learning curve progressed (which eventually got that ‘Modern Military Gentleman’ fired unjustifiably), and supplies of men and material improved. Unfortuunately that learning curve coincided with the slaughter of Officers, and that was why Britain adopted the Khaki uniform, to dramatically improve their survivability.
Just about all the 20th Century fighting techniques, were worked out in that early phase of the Boer War.
The only reason the war went on so long, was due to the incompetence of Buller’s replacement, Roberts (a man extremely hostile to Buller, due to the loss of his son very early in the campaign), and that unspeakable fool, Kitchener.
If Buller had been given the logistical facilities he had requested, the story would have been completely different, despite the outstanding quality of the Boer leadership and their tactics.
As for Germany, they have exactly the same problems with European criminal racketeering politicians, Bankers, and the rest of the Kleptocratic insanity, as the rest of us.
Doubtless, these criminals will seek to scapegoat places like Greece, to further their looting and pillaging.
The people of Europe are all in the same boat (and more than a little cheesed off with the massive Ponzi Scheme being waged against them), and we need to dismantle this criminal EU superstructure and infrastructure, asap.
Greece is not the problem, the People of Greece are not the problem. They are being scapegoated, and if we allow that to succeed, then any of us could be scapegoated next.
My friends in Eastern Europe call the EU the ‘New Soviet Union’. I suppose they aught to know.
Time to say NO! to the lot of them, and at every level, put them in handcuffs and before a Court of Law.
Count me in with the People of Greece.
As well as the People of Germany.
None of us deserve this BS.
TWO big big mistakes JFM first Great Britain and its EMPIRE was the WORLDS STRONGEST RICHEST POWER in 1914 so your comment on German GDP versus Great Britain is just ridiculous. Second the British lost BATTLES against the Zulu’s and the Boer’s but they never lost the WAR.
Still best not to let inconvenient facts get in the way of a good STORY hey?
Pragmatist
I don’t doubt Australia produced many tons of wool and that added to the Imperial GNP but can you tell me how much steel? (that stuff you need for building guns and battleships)? In 1914 Imperial industry was 95% British and Germany’s had become bigger and growing faster.
For the UK finally winning wars against the Zulus and Boers. So what? Italy won the war against Ethiopia and Soviet Union ended winning its war against Finland. Just like I expect an elephant being able to defeat a chihuahua. But if the elephant needs several hours and ends the fight bleeding from dozens of wounds I would advise to train strenuously before taking up a tiger.
So as I said the Bristish managed to lose two (one, you can allege being surprised, two you have no excuse) major battles against Asegai-armed Zulus (BTW the French never experienced a major defeat in Africa). Of course they won: in addition to their technological superiority they could afford to bring ten times more troops than the Zulus had.
For the Boers I invite you to study the Second Boar War and notice that firefights between equal sized units led to 3 times as many British casualties than Boer ones even when the British were in better positions. In addition it was the Boers not the British who were firing smokeless ammo both for rifles and guns. Don’t forget to take a hard look at disasters triggered by inept tactics.
Now my point was that when you are Italy, Soviet Union or the British Empire your politicians should better work on drastically improving the Army at every level equipment, training, tactics, leadership before pitting it against a real opponent.
I’d love to see a citation regarding the relative size of Germany’s and the UK’s economies stating Germany’s was twice as large. Frankly, everything I have seen has indicated rough parity between the UK and Germany at about $220-230B in 1990 US Dollars. If you take into account the GDP of the British Empire the true picture was a UK with an economy twice the size of Germany.
The Brits might want to give up their love of socialism for a warm up, they have no arms so they might want to change their laws so somebody other then the criminals, muslims and cops are armed and get over all this empathy for the criminal sort.
Just the thoughts of an American GI.
It is not merely the solidarity of the aparatchik class that inspires French calls for solidarity. The Prench also want the German taxpayers to bail out the French banks who loaned so much money to Greece.
What could go wrong? In the past, German nationalism has led to unpleasantness for France and Russia. Maybe somebody can tell me what’s wrong with that.
No, the French were trying to save the euro banks, which have quite of the poisoned debt bounds of Euroland ! but we should have let them drink out their poison since 2008. May-be we would then be in a healthier position to oppose to the speculators, that would have already been ruined during the first crisis.
The French were trying to preemptively bailout their banks and protect their terminal currency, the Euro. I say, pull the life-support.
https://monnaie.wikispaces.com/file/view/natixis+-+detenteurs+dettes+publiques+europe.pdf
not really, EU nations debt is well shared by EU nations, so Greece is the apparent symptom of a worst malicious sickness
In principal, they are not supposed to be. In practice, they certainly are now. One of the main problems is that investors failed to distinguish between German debt and Greek debt since they were both denominated in Euros. The result, is that many French and German banks are on the hook for European state debts that are not nearly as secure as they were meant to be.
they are since the Maestricht agreement, which allowed banks to play on the global play ground, but it was a german request for adopting the euro
Because last time something like this happened, we got Hitler. This time, we won’t be so lucky- we’ll wind up with the Antichrist instead. As bad as Hitler was, the destruction he accomplished was limited somewhat by his competence. Imagine a dictator more evil than Hitler, who is also a competent leader. The casualty figures would be in the billions.
Ah, the wonderful ability to compartmentalize brains. One little section didn’t want or trust the Euro. Another believes firmly in socially just distribution of wealth. A third section says we are Bavarians (take your pick of the Laender here) first, Europeans second, and Germans third. This section rests next to that which loves to hear that Germans are export Weltmeister. Then we have the paired sections dealing with sovreignity: EU and UNO good; Brussels bureaucrats bad (The UN’s corrupt crew doesn’t get much media attention). Other compartments deal with pacifism, power to the people except when delegated to activist courts, stopping genocide and human rights abuses without doing any thing concrete, ridding the world of nuclear arms while trading extensively with a country developing and threatening to use them.
The ability to build walls still exists in Germany; however tearing them down seems to have been a one off event.
Dr Daniels, thanks for explaining the “Greek crisis” so succinctly.
Oh no,I am starting to feel sorry for the Germans! Closer to home (U.K), is there any chance of the new coalition having the power to implement the cuts needed to avoid the same fate over here?
To say that the Greek civil servant is useless is to completely underestimate his capacity to do damage.
Good; I am not alone in including the ability to _destroy_ wealth
in my socioeconomic calculus; It is called decivilization, and it
is a Bad, Bad thing.
This article reminds me of something that happened to me a while back. When the Germans re-united in the early 1990s I was talking to my father-in-law. He was in the Army during World War II and fought in Europe. After the Germans re-united East and West Germany, I asked him, “So, what do you think?” He just stared at me, stuck out his finger and pointed it at me, and said, “You just wait. Nothing good will come of it.” I was amazed. Growing up during the Cold War, I always thought a united Germany was a common goal of the West as well as most Americans. But I never really saw it through the eyes of a guy who had to fight these people during World War II. Will “Nothing good” indeed come of it?
Well, the only reason I’m a little scared at the prospect of German nationalism are the similarities between now and the early 1930s. During the 1920s, Germany was probably one of the most decadant places in Europe. The Germans really didn’t want to hear about militarization and all they wanted to do was have a good time. That all changed with the Great Depression. Once that hit Germany, the Germans (a very proud people) were looking for someone, anyone, to guide them out of their economic mess and bring back some self-respect to Germany, especially after the humiliation of the Versailles Treaty.
Enter Hitler. He gave them economic stability and national self-respect, but at a horrific price. Don’t think any of this can happen again? Well, if the Euro collapses, what do you think that will do to Europe’s, let alone Germany’s, finances? There could be a giant economic collapse in Europe, or, if they go the other route of never-ending bailouts, massive inflation of the Euro. Couple with that the recent humiliation Merkel had to endure at the hands of the French Sarkozy, who literally threatened Germany if they didn’t cough up the cash for the Greek bailout, and you may have an ultra-nationalist leader waiting in the wings in Germany if the financial situation continues to deteriorate.
Could it happen? Sure, just like it did before. A desperate and angry people will do desperate and angry things. Will it happen soon? Probably not, given the current state of Germany’s finances, which isn’t nearly as bad as it was just before the Great Depression. But it COULD happen, and anyone who doesn’t think that it could should start reading up on how the Germans went down that ugly and violent road that brought them to Hitler, and disaster.
your father had the right feelings, Bismarckian Germany is going to get a life again
Bismark was the founder of the german nanny state. And the nanny state is now about to collapse. In its ruins we will remember him. What do you fear? A gay love parade invading Paris?
d’ya know we have enough Muslims to take care of t’em !
And if any invading army said they were coming for the Jews again, a large percentage of your Muslims would be right there with them.
Jacob don’t put ahead your paranoia !
Muslim soldiers were in the trenches with our army as they were in the free french army too (ie Monte Cassino, Algerian and Marrocan opened the path for the Alliees) so we can count on them to be brave to defend our territory too. Riots in surburbs aren’t war on our nation, the majority of our Muslims feel french. And you wouldn’t believe how many of them and french Jews have “befreunden” (uh not the right-wings ones)
I would think, of all the countries in the EU that could survive the dissolution of the Euro, Germany would be number #1 — is that not your opinion?
Deutschland erwache aus seinen boesener Traum!
Michael: had Wilhelm II not insisted on building a major fleet and joining the African colonial scramble, and had things gone just a bit worse at Fashoda, traditional Anglo-French antipathy might well have kept the British out of the understanding with the French that led to the Entente. Likewise, had Wilhelm II not fired Bismarck and let the Reinsurance Treaty lapse, there would not have been a Franco-Russian alliance either. Hohenzollern Germany well and truly did itself in through a series of very bad choices from 1890 on.
I don’t know whether the Germans still have the ‘stuff’ it would take to reassert Germany’s national interests. Remember that German nationalism was as much a product of the late 18th and early 19th centuries, Sturm und Drang, and a reaction to the French Revolution and Bonapate.
However, if anything can lead the Germans to revolt against the European project, it’s bailing out the spendthrift South.
German nationalism was rather a reaction to the occupation by the napoleonic army.
)
90% of the germans were against the introduction of the euro… the whole european project is seen as something forced upon the regular joe by “the elite”. I’m just wondering if they first linch the german government or start with eurocrats
The extremely methodical Germans long ago ditched their extreme nationalism for extreme pacifism. And they’re extrmely unlikely to revert anytime soon — extreme pacifism may be just as mindless as extreme nationalism, but it has the advantage of being extremely more smugly comfortable.
I agree. The worst result of this new German “nationalism” would be the Germans taking their money and leaving the EU.
I can’t imagine why the average German would want to prop up the broken Greek civil service system with his tax-Euros.
Usually i enjoy reading the writings of Mr. Dalrymple, but here he is waaaaaay off.
With aging populations and tightly intertwined economics, no european nation has anything to gain from invading a neigbour. If the Bundeswehr would conquer poland tomorrow…then what?
The mere idea of classical nation-state wars in europe like in the 19th and 20th century is absurd. Of course there is a strong anti-EU mood in Germany, but that is understandable. If you pay billions and billions, give away your national souvereignity and democratic rights and in return get loads of big government bureaucrazy….i understand thats not particularly popular in England, too.
The only realistic danger is civil war in the cities, a balkanisation of the inner cities with rising violence and gang crime. Everything else are halluzinations from watching too many WW2 movies.
Two things.
1) While the “nation-state” might be an “old” concept and not one that behooves globalized trade, Germany, and the Germans, in a sense “supersede” the nation-state. Ask any German if there is a “meaning” to “being a German” and you will get a knowing glance of assent. The point being that the notion of “being German” transcends traditional notions of the nation-state. Germanic homogeneity is something that most other Westerners do not fully appreciate. One could look to Japan for some similarities. And perhaps that is in part what attracted Japan to Germany in the 1930s(?)
And yes, I fully understand that Germany wasn’t unified until 1871, but when it did unite, it did so with a bang — and only the most horrific occurrence of the 20th century temporarily interrupted that cementing of a people — and if one counts Prussia, WWII still does “interrupt.” (mind you, I merely have a very healthy respect for the various potentials of the German people, not a wish for those potentials to all be “realized”)
2) I don’t think “Mr. Dalrymple” was necessarily saying that the situation would “jump” from the current state to a state of war. Rather, I think the more realistic scenario would be one where Germany pulls itself out of the Euro currency. Who knows, perhaps the Euro would “stand strong” without Germany… but I doubt it. In any case the question becomes, what would happen then?
Sorry, but the Germans are so far past the “nationalism” thing. Germans are so far left liberals, that if given the choice most would vote to disband their remaing tiny military today.
Also living in Germany… Nationalism and far-left liberal are not really opposite sides of the same spectrum. Keep in mind that Hitler himself directed the Nazis to recruit amongst the ranks of communists because he said it would be easy to make the transition. Other groups, like the proud Social Democrats of yesteryear, would never make the transition.
Instead of using the outdated left-right paradigm, imagine political groups as more of a sliding scale from complete state control on one side to complete anarchy on the other. Most countries are somewhere in the middle of the scale. The Germans are much further to the side of the line indicating state control. It is easy to switch from Communist state control to Nationalist state control since they are on the same side of the divide. It is much harder to go from extreme state control to a less regulated system. The ideas of left versus right no longer accurately describe Western political movements. The Nazis, for example, are considered extreme right, but their platform was anti-capitalist, pro-worker and indeed instituted many of the traditions and institutions in Germany that are associated with the left. They were considered “right” because they were less “left” than the communists. A good exercise is to read the Nazi manifesto and take out the references to Jews.
Here are a couple of excerpts taken from here. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Program_of_the_NSDAP
11. Abolition of unearned income | unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
Mein Gott!
Are you sure that’s not taken from the US Democratic Party’s official platform for the next election?
Seriously though, that was highly useful!
An excellent book on the subject is Jonah Goldberg’s “Liberal Fascism.” He traces various progressive movements in Europe and America to provide context for modern “leftism.” It is an excellent book that I couldn’t recommend more.
Goldberg’s book is great! Boy, does it get up the nose of liberals. They REALLY dislike being reminded of the similarities between National Socialism and international socialism.
It is obviously to our advantage to make this comparison loudly and frequently. It helps delegitimize statists and collectivists of all stripes when we can herd them into the same pen.
Reawaken what? dead brain cells? long suppressed survival instincts;feelings of any kind? YOU CANNOT BRING A CORPSE BACK TO LIFE: Whether;Germany’s or any of the other stiffs in the mausoleum called the EU.Europe’s botched”civilization”IS DYING:AND NOT A MINUTE TOO SOON!
Nations are alive only metaphorically.
In the economic, political and social carnage, Europe stuck it to the Germans in 1919 too. No one thought with the socialists and disorganized politicians running amok in Germany and the penalties and limitations of the Versailles Treaty that they were going to be a problem again either.
However, this time we’re broke. So, tell everyone that they’re on their own. We’ll make accommodations with whom ever is in charge after the dust settles. If we could sit out with the Russians with nukes pointed at each other for 50 years, there’s no need to add one more American’s grave to the soil of Europe again for their follies. So long and thanks for all the fish.
” is there any chance of the new coalition having the power to implement the cuts needed to avoid the same fate over here?”
#9, the only power that will work is will power. Sadly, there is no evidence of any of that left in the UK. You guys are just Greece with enough money to carry on the charade a little longer. Equally sadly, there is little evidence of will power here in the US either. The only encouraging sign is that of the Tea Party and the MSM demonize them as the devil incarnate. Wish us luck on your way out. The elections in November will tell if we’ll be joining you shortly.
And vice-versa; If the current crisis in the EU does not
cause a conservative reform in the US elections this year,
and the further collapses do not decide the 2012 elections,
then the US deserves the authoritarian government which will
be necessary to control the recovery from _our_ collapse.
Bah. As Tom Lehrer said, we taught them a lesson in 1918 and they’ve hardly bothered us since then.
You British, us US, etc. didn’t thought them any lessons in 1918. Otherwise how do you explain Hitler? We put so much Versailles burden on the Germans, we almost guarantied another war. The US policies after WW2 were lessons learned from the WW1 and that’s why Germany behaved. Because we showed to them finally that we don’t hate them as people and try to eradicate them.
As one said, desperation leads to desperate measures and the Germans could take another swipe at it if push comes to shove. Let’s hope that people will do better this time and no wars will come out of it. After all WW1 came out of the failure of a Austrian bank called Credit Ansthalt that was doing credit swaps and derivative. Sounds familiar?
It makes me unhappy to hear of so much putting down Greece. Yes they have a corrupt government like all of us, they bought in that Goldman Sacks crop, like all of us, they – Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, Romania, Argentina, Iceland are in this mess and it’s only spreading. So do not laugh at Greece, because Greece is a mirror and an warning as what’s waiting in store for all of us if we continue to allows the banks to rob us in broad daylight.
Please do not engage in standard US-bashing for Europe’s problems. Goldman Sachs most certainly did not create Greece’s problems. If you think that, you must then have a rather poor opinion of the Greeks.
You imply that the budget of an entire European nation was “taken down” by a single American company — and to boot, you chose one with an unambiguously Jewish name — I think I hear faint echoes.
The Tom Lehrer remark was made in jest.
I currently live in Germany and I think the people slowly but steadily realize that their problems evolve from their own political system which is very elitist and very authoritarian and that Greece and the EU are just symptoms of that. I explained the german political system several times to friends at home and they couldnt believe how much power the parties have for example. They have no primaries becuz “Der Vorsitzende hat das erste Zugriffsrecht” (the party chairman has access privilege to the candidacy). Chancelor Merkel secured the candidacy for chancelor for the CDU in 2005 by declaring it on television and her socialist competitor Steinmeier did it exactly the same way in 2009. They definitely need a new constitution and since their constitution isnt Versailes thus not something foreign powers are responsible for, I dont see any problem with renewed german nationalism. It might indeed lead to more democracy in this country.
I doubt it will lead to more democracy for the Germans. Germans have a pretty strong elitist streak and see nothing wrong with thwarting democratic intentions for the will of intellectuals. As for authoritarian, as I’ve pointed out on PJ media message boards before, there are two types of rules in modern Germany. 1. These are things that you must do at all times and it is forbidden not to do them under any circumstances. 2. These are things that you must never do at any time, and it is forbidden to do them under any circumstances. The German system is anti-democratic and authoritarian and perfectly reflects the the people living under it.
That was certainly so but its changing and like the article rghtly points out through europe. The Germans dont fall for the EU anymore no matter how it is praised by the elites or look at the opinion polls after the minaret referendum in switzerland when Germans noticed that not a single op-ed resembled the majoritarian view in Germany and I heard talking about the liberal media for the first time from Germans. Can they change something about it right now? No, but this is due to the same lack of responsiveness that paralyzes all other european states today. So Germany is really a very normal european nation today.
For as much as any country can represent “European opinion”, the Germans certainly have a good claim due to the sheer size of the German speaking population in the EU. What is strange is that each EU country I’ve lived in has a completely different understand about the basics of the EU. When the Germans say “Europe”, they typically mean the German-French axis as represented by the creation of the Eurozone and resistance to Bush. They are largely in step on certain issues, but when a Frenchman says “Europe”, he really only means France and a little enclave of French speakers leading from Lille to Brussels. (For a Freudian understanding of how the French see the world, watch the movie “L’Auverge Espagnole.” The Americans in the film are inevitably stupid and monoglots, the Germans are supportive but have maybe two lines of dialogue in the whole film, and the action is centred on French speaking Europeans in the “European” city of Barcelona where everyone speaks French. Their Europe is the “United States of France” version.) Many of the southern countries, Europe’s “beard” so to speak, view the EU as a bottomless piggy bank that provides development funds for sorely needed infrastructure.
While Germans have some understanding that their opinions on immigration are more closely aligned with that of the hysterical bordering on satirical Bild Zeitung, they are largely in the dark about 99% of differences between Germany’s system and that of the Americans or Canadians. They are raised on their ideas and are completely unable to contemplate a different scenario. One of the major problems Germans had with the Greek bailout is that the money would not go to provide similar entitlements in Germany. I don’t think they have a free-market consciousness that is just waiting for the right moment to express itself.
“but when a Frenchman says “Europe”, he really only means France and a little enclave of French speakers leading from Lille to Brussels. (For a Freudian understanding of how the French see the world, watch the movie “L’Auverge Espagnole.””
you ment “L’Auberge Espagnole” from Cedric Klapitch, but you don’t seem to have watched the movie, can’t remember that the youth there was talking of the “stoopid” Americans…
It was rather a melting pot of love affairs of european youngs.
As far as your comparison with Freudian interpretation of the French psyché, you should know that no serious analyse take care of Freud explanations anymore, ie Michel Onfray last book on Freud that makes scandal amid our parisian intelligentia
On the vital space (Lebensraum) of the French, you have again it all wrong: French aren’t looking to the north, but to the south, Mediterranea is where is our history from ages, it’s also where we’ll go again when this EU nightmare will be over, it’s our evident vital space !
“but when a Frenchman says “Europe”, he really only means France and a little enclave of French speakers leading from Lille to Brussels. (For a Freudian understanding of how the French see the world, watch the movie “L’Auverge Espagnole.””
you ment “L’Auberge Espagnole” from Cedric Klapitch, but you don’t seem to have watched the movie, can’t remember that the youth there was talking of the “stoopid” Americans…
It was rather a melting pot of love affairs of european youngs.
As far as your comparison with Freudian interpretation of the French psyché, you should know that no serious analyse take care of Freud explanations anymore, ie Michel Onfray last book on Freud that makes scandal amid our parisian intelligentia
On the vital space (Lebensraum) of the French, you have again it all wrong: French aren’t looking to the north, but to the south, Mediterranea is where is our history from ages, it’s also where we’ll go again when this EU nightmare will be over, it’s our evident next vital space again, Mediterranean Alliance was the premise of it, that Frau Nein, didn’t want to allow us though !
Yep I concur with almost all of that. But I dont think that the greek bail out is despised because people would put the money into german entitlements otherwise. They have had some reforms which were pretty painful for them in the last years and I think they really felt they made a serious effort to get there own budgets under control by working longer and cutting some entitlements and suddenly they have to spend all the saved money or rather go further into debt again for the “lazy greeks” who lied there way into the monetary union and havent made any such effort in the last decade. This situation is pretty new for the Germans, it was allready when they had to give up their beloved currency, but i think they gave it a try. Now that the eurocrats screwed that up I believe that something within the status quo will be permanently broken and that can be very productive.
Furthermore I have seen anti-americanism in a variety of forms in so many countries, that I really dont take it personally anymore. If the dominating global power would still be the British Empire we would see alot of anti-british resentment instead. Its just a question of who is in power and who is providing global order. Such a power has to pursue this role actively and thus provides a target for everybody who isnt in power.
Jacob, I agree completely with your last paragraph. The Germans don’t know what they don’t know about others. They also don’t handle chaos well. Ordnung muss sein.
Ah, the European S-word. It’s vital for non-European readers to grasp the full meaning of this word in the Euro-context. I analysed it here: http://www.businessandpolitics.org/?p=2750
Thus:
For example, it means that the successful have to support the unsuccessful to the extent demanded sic) by the unsuccessful. Any suggestion that the unsuccessful have brought their unsuccess on themselves, and that the best way for them to become successful is to learn that lesson the hard way, is denounced as showing ‘no solidarity’. How dare you hurt their feelings by suggesting that?
It also means that the very idea of generosity is excluded. Why? Because the essence of solidarity is the idea that the unsuccessful have a formal, open-ended claim on the successful. A necessary consequence of being successful is that you have to carry the unsuccessful on your back. That burden may stop you being quite as successful as you might be, making everyone poorer, but that’s just the way it goes.
Finally, it means that the unsuccessful are deemed to be morally superior to the successful. Their strident needs trump others’ patient achievement. No-one argues that in return for expecting largesse from the successful the unsuccessful must try harder or be more honest – on the contrary, it is their very inadequacy which makes operating to normal standards of honesty and effort a priori impossible.
In short, solidarity is a charter for looters and moochers.
NB The key moral aspect of this situation is not the looting and mooching.
It is the docile subservient willingness of the successful to continue to be looted and mooched. The unsuccessful prey on the successful by relying on their very virtue and unfailing good nature – turning those virtues into bonds of serfdom.
We have met the Enemy, and they are us.
You’re so right. One correction – We meet the enemy is is All of Us.
uh why is Robin Hood such a hero in Great Brittany ?
And why is an absurd airbag like Bernard Henry-Levy is an hero in France? Shirt strategically opened, “bronze” like an Italian pimp, and blowing warm air with the steadfastness of a German compressor – and the Frenchies saying: “Grandeur!”
Normally impotents don’t like impotents, the case of the French and their passion for foolish blowhards is still unexplainable -
sorry to tell ya, but BHL is only read by english speaking popole ! here , he is the medias buffon !
Nice shot there. That’s what I like about the French wit. Now a day we have the banks doing the Robing Hood.
Marie the message of Robin Hood, is King John and the Sheriff of Nottingham.
King John and the Sheriff of Nottingham were the face of the ‘EU’ and the tyranny of ‘Regional Assemblies’ of their day.
Look up Justinian’s Precepts if you think I am joking, hehe.
This war has been going on for almost 1,000 years now. The first Peace Treaty, was signed in the year 1215, at Running Mead. That removed Feudalism from Britain (brought by the Normans in 1066) and returned us to the sanity of pre-Roman Law (Roman Empire Law, pre-Julius Caesar Law), which had been recodified as the Common Law by King Alfred the Great (why he was ‘the Great’ – no silly burned cakes involved).
We fight it because it is insanity as a Societal Concept. It is massively self destructive, and always doomed to failure, unfortunately usually accompanied by massive bloodshed.
It is what Henry VIII was all about (not the silly wives issues).
Our Civil War with Charles I’st.
Our 1688 Glorious Revolution (which gave us our Bill of Rights, and which gave America its first Bill of Rights circa the year 1700 – something most Americans seem quite unaware of, and it is something I would dearly like to get a copy of).
Since then, we have had to fight recurring attempts to introduce it’s tyrannical concepts, such as against the Code Napoleon (which after the French Revolution, sold out the French People, via Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite, which destroyed your Rights and Liberties rather than preserving them, by failing to mention Life and Property, which are amongst the most important of the unalienable Rights), and the attempts by the Kaiser, and then Adolph Hitler.
So far, we are all losing this phase, but we will eventually and inevitably win (for a while, until the insanity is tried yet again).
The big question is, ‘At what price this time?’.
“the majority of the German population sees no reason why it should pay for the ouzo of useless Greek civil servants?”
The time is rapidly approaching when America must ask who will pay for its useless civil servants? California is asking that question now, and other states are not far behind. With Obongo and his Dimocrat congress intent on regulating private enterprise out of existence…who, then will pay for their massive expansion of the federal bureaucracy ?
It doesn’t take a majority of a country’s population to conduct a revolution.
It just takes a sufficient amount of the leaders of the populace to move against the entrenched and complacent. An apathetic and economically depressed populace could be very fertile ground for a “new” ideology.
Look for attempts to go around or break the lock the socialists have on mainstream media in Germany.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,693973,00.html
Germany want to win on each level, no matter if she tricks the trades rules.
She forgot that Euroland was helping her to recover eastern Germany from the misery of the soviet era. EU subsidies were alloted there as much as for Spain, Portugal or Greece, and of cource, western Germany paid the biggest part, but it wasn’t a problem for her, eastern Germany was the same nation, while, Greece is a foreigners’, Also ECB loans were adapted forGermany needs of the era, as so Maestrich rules for stabilization of the prices and or the anti-inflations recommendations were volontary “forgotten” for the “weaker” Germany, that had to recover her wealthy situation, but the other EU nations, God help them to manage by themselves !
Liar, liar skirt on fire!
France bitterly, bitterly opposed the reunification of Germany -
Come, tell us what did and said Mitterand when then that development became obvious -
You’re a liar Marie-Claude -
of course you read papers, but which ones ?
I give one more chance to educate yourself, since you inflated yourself of knowing our language
http://www.slate.fr/story/19293/lallemagne-nest-pas-le-tiroir-caisse-de-leurope
Um, folks, worries about a rising German nationalism are unfounded for one simple reason:
Great Britain will warn Germany about consequences, France will issue warnings about nuclear weapons, Russia will nuke Berlin and then make threats.
There are how many non German NATO troops in Germany? It’s hard to be a threat when essentially you are still an occupied country, surrounded by nuclear states at least one of which has very bitter recent memories.
The largest nuclear power, and the largest component of NATO
is the U.S. of A.; It would be unwise for the Russians to
attack the heart of our most important economic ally,
particularly while we still have forces in Germany.
France is too close to Germany to use nukes.
Nobody cares what the Former Great Britain says.
More to the point, a shooting war is bad for all the combatants;
An economic war, with the goal of influencing economic policy,
could have winners and losers; A good first step, and example to encourage
the other PIGS, would be to force a change of government, or at least administration,
in Greece, by cutting off all credit, supplying enough necessary
humanitarian aid to avoid major loss of life during the subsequent
collapse, and waiting for the Greeks to clean up their own mess.
great idea- can you tell why the french should accept a greek bankruptcy if they can force the germans to pay the bill??
)
btw there is an old greek saying: there is nothing new under the sun….
europe for dummies:
step1) france and germany decide
step2)germany pays the lion share of the bill
step3) france reaps the lion share of the profits
the frnch call it “cooperation”
When I was in the military, I had quite a lot to do with our NATO allies. And I have travelled quite widely in western Europe. What I have learn’t is that there is NO European nation. The EU is a force for war. It is forcing the member states to do things they don’t want to do. I doubt that any German wants to bail out the Greeks. The EU is basically designed to keep the French in the style they have become accustomed to. I read a quote from an American yesterday, P J O’Rourke. He said that you should check on what the French are doing – and do the opposite. Sounds good to me.
so brittish ! but you’re not in EU, just tipping from EU, I wonder what you’ll say when Germany is going to definitly reject your country from EU when you’re going to need a bailing out of your currency, forecasted by all the experts !
Guess, I won’t condam them then !
You need to speak up, I can’t hear you over the sound of France’s race, class and culture traitorism. And of course the constant rustle of Britain subsidising pathetic French farmers.
EU needs to die die die.
Be mature dude. Marie may not have all the right answers but don’t make a fool out of yourself. Without EU our American economy would be deeper in the tanks. We need each other more than we should reject each other.
I will purposely overlook your terrible grammar and only attack your intended meaning. What that..? Oh, you’re welcome.
The phrase “Be mature” and the word “dude” taken together, form an oxymoron. Put another way, you “stepped in it” before you even got out the door, I’m afraid.
Finally, if you so long for your Mother Country, by all means, please take the next plane…
Home farm subsidies UK 2008
http://farmsubsidy.org/GB/browse
tell me which societies belong to the queen of England, and to the dukes of England ?
so, looks like big agro-alimentary enterprises are getting the jackpot !
and I reassure you, in France, it’s the same, poor small agricultors get fast nuthin, just a tip to buy new clothes for Easter ! Though as France is the first agricultural productor in EU, of course, the allotments are bigger, don’t forget that amid the lucky beneffitors of the EU PAC subsidies, Prince de Monaco comes 2nd, after Queen of England.
Now, I tell ya, I’m against ythese subsidies, cuz they make our agricultors working like serfs, they aren’t free to product what would make them fairly earning their life, in a true free market situation
“Chancellor Merkel, what do you think will be the main effect of resurgent German nationalism?” “This time I think we can take Paris in two weeks.”
you forgot that the Germans have become fat since WW2, and that they drink beer as military training !
However weak they may be, they won’t have any problems with a bunch of French sissies.
I for one don’t have much respect for people who hide, desert and have to be kept in line at gun point in front of an enemy who was doing to their civilians and specially the women what Russians were doing in 1945. It seems that German bravery only held as long as superior weaponry and tactics ensured it was the people in opposing armies who died for their countries. Once it was the opposite (them dying) they didn’t behave that well.
While the French in 1940 weren’t to say the least specially heroic, it must be remembered that they saved British bacon at Dunkirk and that “correct” behavior from 1940 German troops (actually intended by Hitler as a weapon in his arsenal) towards civilians acted as a disincentive for stubborn resistance. And that AFAIK there is no record of a German force ever attacking and routing a French force three times its size like the French did to them at Auerstaedt in 1807 and several times in 1814.
Anyway nations change and one who behaved heroically at one point can become a bunch of cowards a couple generations later. Or the opposite. For French and Germans it was teh later not the former who, in the 80s held massive demonstrations under the “Better red as dead” motto.
if you could explain to our hamburger Jacob friend, that the muslims were brave within our army, and don’t forget to remind him Babeuf, that didn’t inspire Hitler and or Mussolini, also that Jews in France became citizen of France,during our Revolution for the first time in Europe they had a citizenship. Thanks
“you forgot that the Germans have become fat since WW2, and that they drink beer as military training”
As opposed to the French, whose only mentionable military preparadness is to surrender -
When Dien Bien Phu was encircled and had become a death trap there were people who had never jumped, volunteering for a combat jump in what had become a death trap.
That and Corps General Monclar accepting a five step drop in rank and pay to Lieutenant Colonel so he could fight in Korea.
Mise en trop
what a great mind, you deserve to become famous, chez “les pieds nickelés” –> equivalence, “Monthy Python”
This time we will take control of the Force de Frappe _first_.
Germany is a country of fanatical do gooders (Gutmenschen). Yesterday during a family meeting I said “gypsy-music”(Zigeunermusik). My mother (80 years old) corrected me: “We say Roma-music”. I replied: “Mutti, this is very discriminating towards the Sinti.” The gnostic dream originated in the german world. With this we have been Export-Weltmeister (worldchampion). Now the gnostic dream is dying. It simply runs out of money. And with it the german world will vanish from the face of earth (in fact, it has already). That is what is happening. Recoice and be sad. It was a grande dream but completely out of touch with reality.
Oh please.
I suppose the Germans thought they were doing good when they rounded up all the Jews and murdered them. No really, they did think they were doing good by the world, that’s why they performed the task so enthusiastically.
What the Germans gave the world first and foremost was Nazism. Sorry, to have to break it to you, Fink. The only reason ‘mutti’ corrects your ‘gypsy’ slur is because mutti’s older brothers and sisters murdered a few hundred thousand of them and only stopped because the USA, Britain, and the USSR made them stop.
The children of the children of the oppressed forget, and in their turn oppress.
Germany has given the world a great deal, and suffered greatly during the World War;
It has been demonstrated that the socioeconomic failure mode exemplified by Germany
is not peculiar to that nation, but a general weakness of humanity; Certainly other
nation have done worse under less stressful conditions.
Note that this is not an apology for past evil, but a warning of future evil,
if another general economic collapse of Europe is allowed to occur.
We don’t need warnings or preaching from the nation that produced Hitler. We need Germany to accept full and permanent responsibility for destroying Western civilisation in the cause of its own aggrandizement, then achieving via corruption and stealth Hitler’s dream of the EU. Because the EU is most definitely, and empirically proven to be, nothing more than the ultimate nationalist socialist fantasy brought to sickening reality.
And lacking an underclass to fuel it in the modern era- europe’s socialists decided to import a new underclass in the form of the millions of illegal muslim immigrants.
Everyone knows this.
‘We’ means thee and me; Speak for yourself, only.
Europe need to come together, not fall apart, and
the economic equivalent of war on the PIIGS is an
excellent means of uniting against an existential
threat, with Germany, England, and France, in that
order, supplying the leadership, and the ‘army’ of
young, low wage workers necessary to win the day.
Sorry to broke it to you dude by we the US have our own problems in history. We refused to take the ship loads of Jews fleeing the Nazy and wind up in lagerkamp. Than Russia under Stalin exterminated 40 plus millions Jews and we US didn’t even flinched over it than nor now.
Thank you Florin for showing all of us that
Nazi Germany == Stalin’s USSR == the USA
No difference at all between them because we did, as you correctly point out, turn that ship of Jews away (and a terrible thing that was). And that one act made us the equivalent of the eventual killers of those Jews, and Russia’s killers as well.
Your logic is so kristall (-nacht) clear! I am finally understanding how simple the world is when viewed through the eyes of an ethical relativist such as yourself! Thank you for the valuable insight. I think you’d fit in well at any Islamic Studies department at one of our finer universities. Indeed, a greater talent I have rarely come across.
Darn that Democrat U.S. president, his commie-lite advisors and his Klan supporters!
@Gus:
Well, I know you would love to slaughter every single gentile German man, woman, child and baby alive today, right?
If not, it definitely doesn’t sound like that
you really should inform you mother: the PC term is mobile ethnical minority since Sinti and Roma only mean “the people” and “us”
The most natural economic/political/military alliance in Europe is also the one that has never been seriously tried but that has every reason to be tried now: a major UK- German alliance. Political France is obviously a disaster for Europe; it should isolated, not encouraged. For example, because France is a jackass, it chooses Russia as its ally; even now it supports Russian initiatives to strangle the Eurozone via energy dependence. & etc. A UK-German alliance, implicitly with the US backing it, would do wonders for Europe and for the Atlantic alliance, and would backstop Russia’s (and France’s) absurd, but real, efforts to assert what they regard as their ancient rights to European or Eurasian dominance.
While the argument can be made, as it has been made, that something inherent in German character impelled the nation towards Nazism, or at least conservative militant Prussianism, the experiences of the wars, subsequent occupation, and then this new whatever-it-is since reunification has quenched that fire. Now they just want to be good Europeans, and regain their autonomy from the French shame – after all, it must rankle that Germany was never really defeated by France in either war, and yet Germany has been forced to pretend as though it committed a grave sin against France, as a synecdoche for Europe. It is natural that that should end, and comments about Germany’s Neo Nazi rise is just a bunch of bullshit. UK and Germany should get together. I think it’s a great idea.
you’re besides your feet, France isn’t Russia alliee, it’s not because a few ships are in discussion, (Russians haven’t definitly chosen between Dutch, Spanish or Korean ships, you should investigate German trade alliance with Russia (of course behind the curtains), but as usual you point on the French as the media trouble makers. Now France is alone with the Mediterranean club to defend european values, German have only thought of EU as their natural field for selling german goods, Brits have always opted for the side that would allow them to make money and or political influence, see, how greet they are, the baroness Ashton, so typically brittish !
Now, I don’t care of the EU, it’s a bunch of egos, that this crisis reveiled to the world.
Now, like you suggest it, France would be well inspired to make alliance with Russia, so far Russia was our Alliee in WW1 and in WW2, while the Brits become our alliees by interests ! German are more relevant than the Brits, it’s only their Übermenschenheit spirit that is disgusting !
“Russia was our Alliee in WW2″ Really? When?
When they invaded your Polish ally and France and Britian was supposed to declare war on the Soviets? When Vichy France was actively fighting the Russians? When the Division Charlamange was defending Berlin?
old soldier, I bet it’s too late for you to read history books !
though, make it relative, Roosevelt was a Nazi Germany friend too
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/05/the_reemergence_of_german_domi.html
Dear Marie Claude
We are, unfortunately, in the EU. I don’t believe the EU has a mechanism for expulsion. Luckily for France!!!!
I think that it is not out of the question that either Greece or Germany will leave the EU. If Germany leaves, that is pretty much the end of it. If Greece leaves, I think that the election that follows when the current Conservative/Communist coalition breaks up could probably be won by which ever party promises to take Britain out of the EU.
I wonder how quickly an economic union among Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and India could be put together?
We don’t need “union” – just free trade. The Anglosphere will evolve by itself, with India being much more than just a jewel in a crown.
that’s where you’re wrong, Sarko threatened to leave EU last week. If you can’t leave eurozone, you’re allowed to leave EU, and de facto the eurozone
http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/scplps/ecblwp10.pdf
I think France or Germany leaving the EU abruptly would be a catastrophe of epic proportions for the world economy. Unfortunately, the idea of the EU in its current form has been sold for decades under the idea that this supranational entity in exactly this form was the only way to prevent further wars. Other options were largely excluded from the design process. Now, there is so much eurocratic rot infecting the system that it will be extremely difficult to undo the previous mistakes and set out on a more reasonable course. Europe’s elite should start to address some of the fundamental failures in the system, such as the construction of a common currency zone with shared interest rates that bound vastly different economies to support Germany’s export-centred economic model without the necessary centralized structures to ensure what is now almost certain: the sovereign default of a Eurozone member. I think a union under much more reasonable terms is a much better choice than a quick withdrawal. A quick withdrawal would spook world markets and possibly ensure several Eurozone defaults, taking with it whatever legitimacy the European project still has left with it down the drain. In my opinion, they should keep some of the free-trade advances that have been made and scrap a lot of the patently ridiculous rules such as a loss of sovereignty over national borders.
Unfortunately, the necessary course correction can only come when Brussels admits to a least some of their outrageous folly; I don’t see this happening anytime soon.
My, that’s so intelligent -
The only, only residue of influence in the world that France has comes from the European association -
If France leves the Eurozone, it in mondial terms somewhere betwen Portugal and Egypt – Poland being ahead as popularity and traction in foreign affairs -
Who believes Sarko that France will dare rock the boat – Merkel ain’t, and no European leader ain’t, too -
That’s why the French needed to use their last propaganda asset – Zapatero – Gawd! Gawd! to frisbee this lie in the media -
uh, your presbiting will damn you, unless it’s your misantroping
Marie,
In order to absorb your clearly massive intellect, it will be first necessary for us “dumb Americans” to, uh, understand the words you use.
I’ve looked up “presbiting” (press biting? Presbyterian?) and “misantroping” (misanthrope?) and found nothing. I’ve considered misspelling and still come up with nothing meaningful. Therefore, would you be so kind as to educate us backward Americans by using… you know “simple” words — also, preferably, words that exist in the English language would be nice as well — but perhaps I am asking for too much?
@ FF, I think she meant presbyopia, an eye condition, and misanthropy. Please don’t pick on her for her English mistakes. It’s a horribly unbecoming trait of the French to pick on foreigners for their accents, and as much as I was disgusted by how everyone in France laughs when they see non-native speaking Asians, we shouldn’t replicate their folly. (Her ideas are fair game and should be enough to keep you busy.)
Falabel
presbiting a contraction for biting, and presbyte , trouble to read press
misentroping was easier as far sense, and of course still a contraction franco-english
Very true. If the decisions were made today, it was recently pointed out that even Germany wouldn’t meet the criteria on grounds of public debt and debt to GDP ratio.
Why, after all these years, Germany has to play into the hands of corporate, big government interests when it has its own rich culture, history and artists/philosophers/inventors.
We are too busy worshiping at the altar of the Annointed One (Obama) and Lady Gag Me to see that there is much, much more depth to Western culture. Swamped and minimized, Anglo-Saxon achievements are a passing reference it seems.
What is sad is that no one is asking for dominance of one culture over another. A more balanced view of these viewpoints instead of far-left mantras is desperately needed. Just look at how easily the minds of today are brainwashed with no room for debate. Bring up Coulter, Beck, Cheney and conversation instantly turns adversarial.
Wow. This is blatant racism. Oh no the Germans cannot help themselves from trying to take over the world. What nonsense.
Not the world silly, just Poland, France and Belgium. They still have the maps.
rather blatant indoctination: in most ( in WW occupied) european nations childred get their share of the natioal miths in history lessons at school:
brits focusing on their “altruistic defense of poland” neglecting the fact that they gave it to stalin.
dutch children even have schoolplays on national holidays showing kids impersonating dumb german soldiers and brave dutch resistance figthers.
french kids are informed that the whole population was in the rsistance- forgetting to tell them that a civil war broke out after the germans left…..
but there is hope: THE CHURCH OF GLOBAL WARMING discovered that the american way of live is causing a global holocaust.
HAIL OBAMA
“ominous rumbles” For whom? A shrinking German population would seem unlikely to have much interest in acquiring more lebensraum.
right, but “Mercantilism” through banks loans rating is doing the same work as Wehrmacht ! As rigid ECB was made and shaped for german rules, thus attracting good foreign investment only into Germany. But we still have that chance that our former oil colonies bet on ours !
Good luck with all of that Tunisian investment capital that will start rolling in any day now.
Jacob,you are a poor fellah, so jaelous to not be the center of the topic
get a life, San Pauli in Hamburg is well achalanded (for your big mind , give us the definition of this franco-english contraction)
There are two great advantages to the strategy I have proposed. The first is that it would achieve what many people might otherwise have thought impossible: it will morally justify and render respectable German nationalism in the eyes of all reasonably impartial observers
German nationalism does not need to be “justified” to anyone, any more than American or Israeli nationalism does.
102,000,000 war dead disagree.
invalid argument, because they can’t disagree.
“am deutschen wesen soll die welt genesen” is long dead but the wilsonian credo and zionism still claim their victims in irak, gaza ghanistan…..
Europe, Nationalism and Shared Fate by George Friedman for Stratfor
http://tinyurl.com/34oky7l
The European Union was designed to create a European identity while retaining the nation-state. The problem was not in the principle, as it is possible for people to have multiple identities. For example, there is no tension between being an Iowan and an American. But there is a problem with the issue of shared fate. Iowans and Texans share a bond that transcends their respective local identities. Their national identity as Americans means that they share not only transcendent values but also fates. A crisis in Iowa is a crisis in the United States, and not one in a foreign country as far as Texans are concerned.
The Europeans tried to finesse this problem. There was to be a European identity, yet national identities would remain intact. They wrote a nearly 400-page-long constitution, an extraordinary length. But it was not really a constitution. Rather, it was a treaty that sought to reconcile the concept of Europe as a single entity while retaining the principle of national sovereignty that Europe had struggled with for centuries. At root, Europe’s dilemma was no different from the American dilemma — only the Americans ultimately decided, in the Civil War, that being an American transcended being a Virginian. One could be a Virginian, but Virginia shared the fate of New York, and did so irrevocably. The Europeans could not state this unequivocally as they either did not believe it or lacked the ability to militarily impress the belief upon the rest of Europe. So they tried to finesse it in long, complex and ultimately opaque systems of governance that ultimately left the nations of Europe with their sovereignty intact.
When the Berlin Wall came down in 1989, there was no question among the Germans that East and West Germany would be united. Nor were serious questions raised that the cost of economically and socially reviving East Germany would be borne by West Germany. Germany was a single country that history had divided, and when history allowed them to be reunited, Germans would share the burdens. Ever since the 19th century, when Germany began to conceive of itself as one country, there was an idea that to be a German meant to share a single fate and burdens.
This was the same for the rest of Europe that organized itself into nation-states, where the individual identified his fate with the fate of the nation. For a Pole or an Irishman, the fate of his country was part of his fate. But a Pole was not an Irishman and an Irishman was not a Pole. They might share interests, but not fates. The nation is the place of tradition, language and culture — all of the things that, for better or worse, define who you are. The nation is the place where an economic crisis is inescapably part of your life.
When the Greek financial crisis emerged, other Europeans asked the simple question, “What has this to do with me?” From their point of view, the Greeks were foreigners. They spoke a different language, had a different culture, shared a different history. The Germans might be affected by the crisis — German banks held Greek debt — but the Germans were not Greeks, and they did not share the Greeks’ fate. And this was not just the view of Germany, the economic leader of Europe, by any means.
http://bit.ly/cSkqGK
I’m not going to worry about German nationalism and expansionism until they elect their first president named Mohammed.
Yea, kinda like we in the States elected Barak Hussein Obama?? Believe me, what a mistake THAT was. Gotta love Statism…it will be the complete destrucution of the Last Free Society.
#28 Thomas Fink:Finally, an European who gets it!See comment #16,.We ,in the US, are rapidly sliding down to the swamp of economic ruin, moral squalor,hypocrisy, and debt slavery that is the future of the West.WILLKOMEN!
The author seems to feel that all Germans are at their cores, budding Nazi’s.
What’s wrong with German nationalism?
Wow – wayyy too many people see Germany through the lens of WW2 movies.
That’s ancient history folks.
First of all, Germans are pansies – most of Europe is today.
Second, Europe is being turned into a 3rd world dumping ground. Third world peoples think they’re entitled to “own” Europe and they are overwhelming German schools and most other European schools with their offspring.
Third, Muslims are working all the angles to take over Germany, including the rest of Europe.
Fourth, the mental conversion of the average German is “Beer! … I hate myself! … Beer! … I hate myself!” Pathetic. Might I add it’s pretty much the same for the rest of Europe.
Fifth, Germany does not have the will nor the manpower to fight a war. Of course, that’s the rest of Europe for you.
Europe has turned into a play ground where white Euro commies run hand-and-hand with Muslims and entitled third world colonizers. While old man, Jan, thinks to himself, “Dude who stole my country!?”
Germany must re-awaken its will to survive. A strong Germany means:
1) Maybe Europe will get their chit together and get rid of the “new colonizers” and Muslim invaders.
2) Maybe a stronger, healthier Germany and Europe will give Americans some place to flee to. Because depending on where you live, American cities are infested with a fast-breeding gang-banger culture and neo commies who want to micr-manage American lives.
3) The America of our fathers and grand-fathers is gone – over. I want a potential place where I or my children can move to where the streets are safe, there’s a sense of community and I enjoy my culture without being told I’m a racist or intolerant.
4) 2010 America is turning into a 3rd world country fast. How can you run a first world country when nearly half of all H.S. students drop out of school? Or they end up getting college degrees based on women’s studies or sports team management? Plus many US corporations are becoming more concerned about following PC dogma rather than creating a good product. Dude, the US is for all intents and purposes over and I grieve over what’s happened to our nation. The average American only cares about sports or American Idol. It’s time to re-think things. Maybe we can save parts of Europe and turn it into something resembling what we once had in America. European countries are a lot smaller and perhaps much more manageable than a faceless beauracy in DC.
Conservative Americans reflecting about going back to Europe?
I always thought things would turn out the other way round:
http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/if-obama-fails-we-will-face-a-mass-exodus-t5053.html
“Find out what the French are doing, then do the opposite”…..
Now, that is a good one.
I think Germans, and Europe, are still doing ok. They are in new territory, new currencies, new economics…a recession. However, they will survive. Fingers crossed.
Nice Article, thanks.
Hard times will sort out a lot of stuff that is long overdue for sorting out. Hard working Germans might ought to be looking for some guns and ammo while they are still cheap. Same for gold and silver. When push comes to shove, the responsible adults will get by, with or without the clueless.
Dr. Dalrymple:
You need only substitute the word “conservative American” for the word “Germany,” and the word “leftist American” for the word “Greece,” and you will have accurately summarized the coming civil strife on America’s horizon, as well. Taxpaying conservatives are sick and tired of having to pay for the mistakes of screeching losers.
@ Marie Claude. Yes, I’ve seen the movie, and yes it showed a lot of horrible stereotypes about other nations that only the French didn’t find insulting. Yes, I meant l’Auberge Espagnole, but since I’m typing on a foreign keyboard, I’ve been known to make mistakes typing mistakes. (I can lie in France and say that I’m a Waloon and nobody can tell that English is my native language.) I stand by my analysis, and I base it on the couple of years I spent living in France. These were also two of the most miserable years of my life. It is no coincidence that the author known for his comment that “Hell is other People” was a Frenchman living in France. My best guess is that the reason you consider it a melting pot of love affaire is just for the reasons I stated; The german characters are supportive but silent, the 2 or 3 Americans are portrayed as being incredibly stupid, and the French love affaire with the melting pot takes place almost completely in French with other French speakers. When the French say Europe, they only mean the United States of France. Take for example how both sides of the debate about the referendum in France used the horrible boogeyman of the “Anglo-Saxons” to make their point for either yes or no on the referendum. This goes to a statement I made earlier about Germans’ inabilities to breakout of the ideas they are given by their press; the French are far worse. French press contains a paucity of original opinions which becomes clear to anyone living in France since the French are a “one idea” people. When you see “L’Auberge Espagnole”, you see a wonderful melting pot because it represents a Europe shaped in the image of the French. Other nations see it as an exercise in excessive French onanism. The EU in its current form is largely a French creation with all the problems that comes with that, such as crippling bureaucratic inefficiency and a tendency to consider issues settled one the elite have made an official proclamation.
The EU, and the rest of the world, needs far less France.
it wasn’t a report on how are the foreign european youngs are, but a FICTION, about a french guy that made love experience in Barcelona ! so it couldn’t be neutral!
Let’s make the same movie by a Brit, a German, a Italian, or a spanish, you’ll get the point of view from the very popular culture where the hero character is born.
So I doubt that you’ll find one that would converge towards your internationalism
“When the French say Europe, they only mean the United States of France. Take for example how both sides of the debate about the referendum in France used the horrible boogeyman of the “Anglo-Saxons” to make their point for either yes or no on the referendum”
uh, you forget that the French invented “universalism” through their declaration of the human rights, and regularly criticized on this board for their “Revolution”.
Now Anglo-Saxons had nothing to do with the french “no” in 2005, it was rather that French feared to loose their prime liberties of organising our society, and that the global banking and businesses promoted through the EU diktats were going to make us poorer and serfs, the final result is proxy !
You are racking up some seriously delusional comments tonight; For one thing, you forgot the the French Nation’s greatest gift to the world is fascism. The Jacobins’ reign of terror was a direct influence on both Hitler and Mussolini. It served as a wonderful background on which the French have painted their modern country. It’s racist, xenophobic, and has delusions of global conquest and reordering the world according to “French” standards. Which is exactly why the French on both sides used scare tactics about the Anglo-Saxon boogeyman to sway both sides of the referendum debate. I know the French aren’t very good at processing facts, but that doesn’t excuse you for not knowing.
Perhaps the award for raspberry of the night is that you said Muslims will fight on the side of France and that most feel French and have plenty of Jewish friends, except the “right wing ones” again. This may even win an award for Frenchism of the week. As a Jew who has lived in France, and been attacked physically for being a Jew in France, let me just say that politics have nothing to do with it. You have a large group of people living on your soil who do not feel French, who are anti-semitic and prepared to commit violence against Jews. In fact, the majority of French Jews that I know have been attacked at least once in the past couple of years. That is why so many of them are fleeing your ramshackle welfare slapper of a country. You have thousands of unmanageable no-go zones, haven’t had a balanced budget in three decades, gave birth to fascism and you still want to share your wealth of “intelligence” with the rest of society.
Please do us all a favour. Keep French “universalism” to your selves. You are going to embarrass yourself beyond any and all measure if you continue to fill up this message board with any of pearls of wisdom from the “one idea nation.” And let me know how it works out with your French Muslim army. Good luck with that.
how funny, up to now, we were the inspirators of the marxism and Lenin revolution, for the first time someone calles us fashists
I have remarcked that you are fond of your own fictions.
if you don’t believe that Algerian and Marrocans weren’t fighting with us, I recommand you history books, not your propaganda opinionists, or better ask JFM, he is an ancyclopedia on war facts.
Now again, if you had a facebook and a Twitter account you would see that french Jews and french muslims are corresponding in a friendly manner, unlike you, but you hold your own person as such a special one, but you’re are generalising, all the Muslims don’t live in suburbs, and all the Muslims are not rioters, only 10% of them that live in suburbs !
Ah, sadly the words of a “one idea” French person living in a multi-idea world. Keep in mind that many French also fought on the side of the Germans. In fact there was one battle where two different divisions of Foreign Legion soldiers fought each other. As far as the fact that some Moslems fought on the side of the allies is not in dispute; unfortunately, as many French don’t realize, there was also a bitter and very bloody war between the French and the Algerians a few years later. Additionally, as I’m sure you’ve also never heard, many Moslem forces fought on the side of the Germans. In fact, the Germans had a special relationship with Haj Amin Al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who helped organize the wholesale murder and dispossession of Jews in both Europe and the Middle East. I would bet €5 (if they’re still worth anything that is; haven’t checked in the last hour) that you’ve never heard of any of this. The French are woefully ignorant of both their history and ours.
So, you are saying that I can see lots of friendship between French Moslems and Jews on facebook; what does that have to do with the fact that I was assaulted for being a Jew, as have many of my friends? Maybe the people that attacked me did not have computer access and did not realize that they were not supposed to attack people with Jewish names in the street. Next time I go to France, I’ll wear a shirt proclaiming to all Moslems that we are facebook friends so they shouldn’t bother looking for and attacking Jews anymore. Do you think that would help?
You obviously have been living in a bubble if you have never heard someone call the French fascists. (Once again, this is the danger of living in a “one idea” state. Dissenting opinions don’t matter!) In fact, Fascism and Communism are quite closely related. Maybe you should try reading “Liberal Fascism” which goes into detail about the various influences on German and Italian fascism, which included both communist ideology as well as French proto-fascist thought springing from the Jacobins, which was a fascist movement.
I guess it is true; Hell is other Frenchmen.
again Jacob, you make of your particular experience a generalisation !
glad you don’t live in France anymore, because you’re the kind of person that entertain “Hate” between populations.
But you hate us as much as the Muslims too !
So, I give you a good advice, keep away !
now the Mooslem who were on Hitler’s side weren’t Maghrebin, but Palestinians !
about our participation on Hitler side, check the facts, The other OCCUPIED nations were more enthusiastic or zealous, choose the right word.
Even Germans couldn’t rely on our will to fight with them.
check here if you’re too “busy” for searching
http://www.gutenberg-e.org/esk01/index.html
and these are true witnesses and researches, not rumors !
[...] Algerian and Marrocans weren’t fighting with us, I recommand you history books, not your propaganda opinionists [...]
Yes, they were – but modify “us” since the numbers of Africans and other foreigners in the WW II “French” liberating troops vastly outnumbered the “Gauls” who, as usually, either surrendered, or were perfectly at ease licking the Germans’ boots -
History, baby, history -
Oh, I forgot about Malraux, a charlatan leading the parade through Paris -
“Yes, they were – but modify “us” since the numbers of Africans and other foreigners in the WW II “French” liberating troops vastly outnumbered the “Gauls” who, as usually, either surrendered, or were perfectly at ease licking the Germans’ boots -”
mbaby you need to get a bit more fair if you want to appear relevant to a military public
I’m going to give some clues:
C’est en 1943 que le général Giraud, commandant en chef de l’armée francaise de la liberation, decreta la mobilisation générale en Afrique: pieds-noirs (formant le plus large contingent), africains noirs, algeriens, tunisiens et marocains furent mibilisés, portant les effectifs des lforces armées francaise a 700 000 en Juin 1944, dont 450 000 pour l’armée de terre. Entretemps, 35 000 Corses s’etaient joints a l’affaire.
De la Fin 1943 a juin 44, pres de 130 000 soldats francais (a l’apogée du corps expeditionnaire francais) combattirent en Italie sous les ordres du général Juin. Les hommes restant etaient mis sous les ordres du général De lattre de Tassigny pour parfaire leur formation et leur organisation.
Le corps de bataille francais devait notamment se composer de 12 divisions, dont 4 blindées au depart et de nombreux groupements et regiments non-endivisionnés. En italie, le corps francais se composait de la 1ere division francaise libre, la 2eme division d’infanterie marocaine, la 4eme division marocaine de montagne et la 3eme division d’infanterie algerienne. En Afrique du nord, les autres divisions continuaient leur entrainement, mais le nombre de divisions dut etre reduit a 8 dont 5 d’infanterie et 3 blindée. La 2eme DB fut transportée en Angleterre en Avril
Colonial army: 60% to 65% Maghrebin, Africans foreigners, and 35% to 40% French Nationals (260000 men)
History, yeah ,but the right numbers baby ! -
Oh, I forgot about Malraux, a charlatan leading the parade through Paris -
En août 1944, sur l’initiative de Malraux, des négociations sont entreprises en vue de la reddition du 95e Sicherheits-Grenadier, établi à Brive. Le 15 août, à 19 h 30, l’acte de capitulation est signé au Château de la Grande-Borie, à Malemort. A 21 heures les troupes du Maquis font leur entrée dans les rues de Brive.
so he wasn’t in Paris, baby !
but Marechal leclerc was !
La division Leclerc : L’homme à la canne de la 2è DB
Le Point le 17/01/2007 “Spécial 8 mai 1945″
Mraie Claude
You could have added that it was Juin who came with the plan who ended the stalemate at Cassino.
ah JFM, thanks, endlich a normal appreciation !
Bof such a bad faith is more troubling for me than German nationalism, which I know how to treat and fight
It’s the “unofficial” voice of the French Foreign Affairs Ministry.
Just peddling their snake oil.
Clueless, oblivious to facts, and arrogant.
Pretends to dispel stereotypes but only enhances them.
Perfect description of la douce France and her citizens. It is a “one idea” state and will remain that way. No matter which party the French vote for, they always get a socialist. This country has provided nothing of value to the world that is not dairy related.
uh, Kouchner is a french Jew !
and you, who’s voice you represent ? not the French as a whole indeed !
Bern ,and suppose you really had clues, where are they ? only oil snake from your keyboard is avoidable
See?
Since when having a Jewish father and a Protestant mother makes one Jewish?
A weak relation to facts and a strong taste for drawing fallacious conclusions is, unfortunately, much too frequent.
oh Bern, what a short sight, your clue is picking on details, of course I knew the goi inheritence of Kouchner, only mothers can transmit the Jewness, uh is it because fathers aren’t certain of being the true “fathers” ! anyway, that would have condamned him as a Jew by Hitler’s criterium
Oh la-la!
So now the “enlightened” Marie Claude justifies her mistaken identification of a French person – and not just any person – as Jewish, by resorting to… no less and no other than… Hitler’s criteria.
Hear, hear!
need some white mouses, ma poule ?
I didn’t know that German nationalism ever went away considering that it is the basic form of their identity. If you look you will even find that English nationalism hasn’t gone away. What will go away is the collection that dines in Brussels.
The odds of a war in Europe between the rumps of European states are not high as things stand now. There is very much the matter that most of the populations involved are more prey than predator. But wait for it.
#25 rbj
There are how many non German NATO troops in Germany? It’s hard to be a threat when essentially you are still an occupied country, surrounded by nuclear states at least one of which has very bitter recent memories.
I don’t think that many. We have pulled most of our forces out, with the bulk remaining consisting of support and medical units. The entire Brit armed forces, all services, active and reserves; would fit inside a decent sized football stadium. In the run up to the Brit election, Labour was seriously talking about cutting it down to something just marginally bigger than the forces of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick. The tiny British Army of the Rhine was to be brought home with the main problem being lack of somewhere to put them before they were demobilized. There was serious talk of disbanding their nuclear deterrent; because the subs need refueling which while rare is expensive. And those carriers to replace the INVINCIBLE class which is functionally mothballed, are not going to happen.
France has been reducing the size of their Army as part of a professionalism program, and I really don’t know how large a force they have on German soil. The Russians, of course, are gone.
Let us say that there are stirrings of German nationalism in a few years. What would be the reaction if foreign troops on German soil tried to suppress it? Or if a foreign power threatened to nuke them? I think it would guarantee a resurgence of nationalism. How long before the Bundeswehr is supplemented by Freikorpen?
I do see conflict in Europe’s very near future; but not of the traditional mobilize-and-cross-the-border sense. When the Eurozone goes economically pear-shaped, things are going to get nasty; with civil disturbances in a bunch of former sovereign states. And in the midst of this, there is still the matter of the Long War, which Europe wants to pretend does not exist.
There has been a lot of talk about Europe’s failing demographics; both from the sense of not having enough working age population to support the welfare state framework [especially when in the best of economic times the real structural unemployment rate in Europe is about what our BLS figures are claiming for our "recession"], and the problem of differential birth rates between Europeans and Muslims in Europe. The latter is frequently couched in terms of being outnumbered and outvoted. There is another critical population point that is close, if not here already.
The key is the number of military age males. Warfare is a young man’s game. From the youngest at say 16 to maybe 25 when you enter training. What is the number of military age males in each area of Europe comparing ethnic European locals versus Muslims. The ratio and trends do not favor Europeans. There are an awful lot of “unidentified youths” whose names just happen to have Islamic roots. Combine this with Napoleon’s fabled moral factor and ponder which group has the will to fight. Everybody’s dance card is going to be full.
Subotai Bahadur
At Last!
A burgeoning war in a civilized area! About time!
No more sand and bugs and heat exhaustion and whatnot, just Germany invading France, the UK waffling until it’s too late, Russia weighing in and seizing buffer countries for it’s protection…
Ah. The good old wars.
All of you are really ridiculous. The nanny state invented in the Bismark Germany is now all around the world, but that’s not the real problem. The problem is the most powerful Nanny state now is United States, and all rhanks to you all, conservatives and liberals together. The ridiculous thing is that self proclaimed “conservatives” all around here in Pajamas media wanted and are still defending this ominous Bismark-America. Like in Germany, your welfare state is not doing well… like in Germany you are putting the blame on others (e.g. “illegal immigrants”), like in Germany, the nationalism is already here, in America. Is just one step away, your nazi-onalism will give you the worst nightmares and most probably will be with the support of the rising nationalist force here known as “conservative”.
Your moral corruption consist of being no more real capitalist advocates, but little welfare-state parasites. You are no more freedom fighters, but welfare-state fighters. Obama is innefective and we all know this,like in the Bismark Germany, it will give rise to a new, strong, popular leader: a conservative, a nationalist. He will put the things “in order”, like Hitler, this new leader will impose a final solution (on the new scape goat, probably the “illegal immigrants”) but the Bismark America will lose, because immoral corrupt nations can’t survive for too long.
The sad thing is that this plan was most probably planned by old communista but executed by conservatives who refuse to defend real capitalist principles, and refuse to stick to the principles of freedom.
RIP America
A teacher of past errors is called history. History, usually penned by the victors still gives stark reminders of what occurs when too much meddling in human affairs begets. Through out history we have seen the rise and fall of various societies, the founding of empires and their demise. The common theme reverts back to the basis of “tibal entity” Europe for all its history is still comprised of Tribes, the most resiliant being those occupying the Ruhr Valley, that dear students are those of Germanic orgins. Germany has united, they are an economic powerhouse, they are resiliant and they learn quickly, They are aware of the peril they have been placed in by those who govern, they will shuck-off those who have failed them, and a history has taught in the last 120 years, Germany isn’t about to be pushed around by the sniveling French or anyone else.
German nationalism does not have to be problem if it is based on the nation state. You are buying into the propaganda that the European Union is necessary to keep the peace is Europe.
Nationalism in nazi Germany was a race-based nationalism. It was borderless, against the liberal nation state, which was considered an Anglo-Saxon or Jewish concept forced upon Europe.
The European Union is the real successor to the Third Reich. Restoration of German sovereignty within its nation state border would be a good, liberal democratic thing. We need more nationalism in Europe, not less.
Don’t ever underestimate the will and resolve of German nationalism. Two wars have told us it’s be foolish to do so.
I once asked my father why Germans can get so fired up over the “FatherLand”. He said..”Give a German a uniform and a marching band…and he’ll follow you anywhere”.
How much more should the Germans be punished? Forever? If so…then the USA better start paying reparations to former descendants of the slaves.
I like your comment.
At least from the Eruo travelers I’ve met – most Eruops are like milk toast; essentially nothing to them except a little ranting and a little peace talk, and a lot of “let’s have another drink” … Except … The Muslims will own the European Continent within the next 50 years…The Euros have have all gone OMBAMA. No choice for them. Hope there are still some fighters in the E.U. with a whole lot of spine.
Lesson here for the US? you betcha.
Ah, Rose, haven’t you heard what our dear Marie Claude said? There are no Moslem ghettos, not in her France. And of course in any emergency, they will all spring to France’s defense.
But seriously though; After all the similar claptrap I heard while living in France, I did call my friends during the riots and tell them all “I told you so.” I’m sure we haven’t seen the last of them, either. It was just the opening round of the “Eurofada.” It lasted for a few weeks, and showed that the French could even lose a war with themselves.
prout
What’s that then? Is that the white flag coming up yet again from the glorious nation of Pétainistan? That train is always right on time.
If I were you, I would be worried of becoming too subtile
War within Europe? Is that what you guys are talking about?
Seriously?
Presuming Russia is not considered a European nation, which it is not, where is the political will within, between or among any single or multiple of European states where the level of loathing or grievance, the level of capability, and the level of preparation conceivably supports military conflict?
It may be that between the self-selected Islamic ghettos of Frnace and Germany the Islamists, busy creating an ideological generation (as Hezbollah agents have described their work in Lebanon), the demographic/economic dislocation and weakness of the host country will create circumstances that some vanguard can engineer an Intifada… but that strikes me as being hypothetical still, an inference – however strong – from a collection of present observable trends and reasonable fears.
But that is to play into one of the central conceits of the 20th century that have warped a great deal of analysis and public discourse: namely that trends, rather than human designs, “cause” wars. That is rubbish: Germany caused the First World War because it believed it could win; Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany caused the Second World War because each thought they could win. Russia caused subsequent “wars of national liberation” because they successfully applied the techniques of Marxism-Leninsim, the “textbook for revolution” as Andropov referred to it. America occasionally caused “reactoinary” wars to prevent or forestall or reverse the process of Marxist-Leninist subversion. Trends & etc are circumstances which constrain or enable the various actors and provide opportunities for propaganda and preparation. Trends do not cause wars.
There won’t be any war. The only thing Germans want to invade is a fabulous gay disco. Sasha Baron Cohen got it right, most German speakers are like Bruno, the only thing they want to do in Africa is trade an Ipod Red for a trendy African baby.
That being said, the future for Germany is Greater Switzerland. If they don’t want to pay for Greece, and Spain, and Portugal, and Italy — they won’t. Simple as that. Oh they’ll have to bail out their banks. Which bought a lot of those junk government bonds.
But Germany won’t pay. Because they can’t. Germany can’t pay because German states and cities are broke, and need bailing out. So Germany put about $140 billion up for loans, the rest of the EU the balance, and the IMF about $300 billion. Wow. Good money after bad.
Even if Greece did a miracle, which was restructure and make payments on the rolled over loans, they’d still have far too much debt to ever pay, and not enough growth to cover payments, a few years down the road. So … Default is Greece’s future.
Which is Spain’s, and Portugal’s, and Ireland’s, and probably non-Eurozone Britain’s as well. Germany will simply leave the Eurozone and issue Deutschmarks.
Everyone knows this. They always knew it — a currency union with Germany, the Netherlands, and perhaps France, against Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, and Greece, which make nothing, spend a lot, and have people incapable of being productive, was always doomed. Germans are great for socialism — being German they can make it work.
But “war within Europe” is not even possible — Europe’s run out of young men. Germany certainly will be greater Switzerland.
The real danger for Europe is desperately poor, unstable North African nations, looking longingly at undefended and basically depopulated lands in Southern and Northern Europe. With Iran as their protector, backed up by Iranian nukes.
whiskey, this is one of the most relevant comments on the topic. Quite a few economists made this analyse too. Germany will return to the DM. Dunno if the other eurozone countries will go back to their own currencies too, or keep the euro as a floating currency
Germany is the main sponsor of European bureaucracy, failed states and grievances in the own country. Most of them are home-made. You will hardly find any country in the world worshipping moral relativism, self-hatred and ingratitude for ìts soldiers like Germany. While homeschoolers are being imprisoned or expelled (like the family having been granted asylum in the U.S. shortly), devoted Communists indoctrinate children at public schools.
In one or two East German counties there will still be some boneheaded, socialist Nazi idiots elected into regional parliaments for one term or two. But what really counts are over 25% of voters supporting communist parties as there are the former GDR single political party SED now calling itself “Die Linke” (“The Left”) and the Green Party devoted to the ideas of the 1968 students` revolt and represented by a lot of former cadres of organisations like the “Communist Union of Western Germany” and sympathizers of the terrorist “Red Army Fraction” (RAF).
The mainstream media are at least as leftist as the political mainstream. 90% of the German people would have voted for John Kerry and Barack Obama.
Being “politically correct” leftist, harsh criticism against the U.S. and Israel becomes en vogue, while complaining about the arrogance and violence of some immigrant youngsters is being rated “fascist”.
The situation in Germany is quite representative for the sentiment in Western Europe as a whole, but perhaps even in a slight bit more pronounced manner.
Things at least are inspiring for bloggers like me and some friends running http://bluthilde.wordpress.com as a German partner blog to the People`s Cube. But in a situation like this, sarcasm seems to be the only applicable way to deal with this madness.
Europe’s big problem is the EURO currency Zone in which defaulting economies like the Spanish the Portuguese and the Greeks along with the poor undeveloped capital injection demanding Eastern European Nations will always drag down the richer ones like Germany and France.
Thank God the United Kingdom had the sense, for these very reasons, to keep out of it.
I should have added we are perfectly capable with our SOCIALIST moonbats in charge of ruining our own economy. Look out USA this is Obambi’s SOCIALIST Islamophile moonbat plan for you too.
Winston Churchill that font of good sense, morality and truth and who is just as correct now on so many topics from Islam ( a degraded sensuality and in which no stronger RETROGRADE force exists in the world) to SOCIALISM ( what will they do when they run out of other peoples money to spend) and Democracy ( the worst form of Government apart from EVERY other one) as he was when he lived once said:-
“The Hun is either at your throat or at your feet”
One German is a TOURIST, Two Germans are a reconnaissance in force, THREE Germans are the start of an invasion.
Oh, I love racism..
Fight/Schmite in another 5-6 years even the men in Europe will be wearing burkas.
American Christian Infidel
Michael Canzano
Whew! What a read – both the article and the Comments. Here is what I am seeing in all of the comments. We, as inheritors of Western Civilization, are either losing our love of a challenge or we have already lost it. I believe mankind (men & women) stagnates without focusing on an activity that stirs the mind, the emotions, the personal self-esteem, the pride of accomplishment, the sense of being. Unlike Rousseau’s “I think therefore I am”, I believe it should be “I am therefore I think”. As humans, we have enabled non-producers and political pirates and society’s bad actors to redirect the idea of Excelsior. We, it seems, lack great thoughts of becoming more than just being “average”. We accept sub-par education, staggering tax burdens, false science, anti-work attitudes, and moral abstinence. We deny Austrian economic realities and engage in Keynesian fantasies. I have just read pages and pages of warfare history. Yes, history is important, but we have an ability to not make the same mistakes over and over again…let history be a teacher. We have the ability to desalinate water and use water to make deserts bloom. We have the ability to produce volumes of food and eliminate global hunger. Get the picture? Take a look at the situation in Haiti. You cannot tell me that peoples and nations that build spaceships, autobahns, skyscrapers, robots, artificial hearts, Le Train Grand Vitesse, the Chunnel, etc. cannot rebuild Haiti in less than a year if they wanted to do so! It is not just Greece having a problem; it is all nations. Sadly, nations still think Socialism / Communism / Fascism are viable systems. They are not. Are all cultures equal? They are not. All religions? Not. But, what is there in common? Let’s find-out and go from there. Those who do not wish to participate or produce, well, they are on their own. I certainly do not want to see a WORLD GOVERNMENT. Local city governments ignore citizens all the time. I wish to see entrepreneurs, ethical investment bankers and businessmen, objective scientists, and fewer politicians who think they have the right to subjugate mankind using a flood of regulations, price floors, tiered tax rates, and class warfare to discourage achievement. C’mon people…we do not have time to involve ourselves in endless circuitous debates. What have you done lately to — you insert the words! Whatever it is, start with yourself, your family, your friends, neighbors, countrymen. Discriminate, yes, discriminate in spending your time with foolishness or with objective realities. Work with people who will work with you towards a rational goal. If you are someone who wants a Theocratic state, well, go see Akhmadinejad and stay there. If you want hardcore dictatorship, then relocate to Venezuela and smile for Chavez. If you have a great, capitalist idea, then seek investors and make it happen. I love French wines, German beers, Brie cheese, Sauerbratten(sp), and creative, hardworking people of all races, ethnicities, and nations. I loved my grandfather who was a Color Guard, Le Drapeau, in the French Military before WWI and love my father and his friends who were U.S. Military in WWII. I hold no grudges against those with whom the U.S. fought…that was then and this is now. So, go out there, make money, educate yourself, invest in those who will work hard to make a better life, cut the crap that a certain, militant religion is so superior to other religions when objective reality is that it is not, and think about what dream’s accomplishment you want to achieve. You can make it happen and be honest and charitable at the same time. EXCELSIOR!
Idiots. I have never seen so many idiotic comments as those that have been posted on this board.
Hm. And yours is by far the most idiotic one, “genius”.
You may be even more evil, because you are Satan incarnate, right?
No, he is just a little racist. Come on, nothing nicer than racism towards the Germans. After all, it is the religion of the left.
I agree. They are all missing the point, the cause-efect law. According to them, germans started some wars, so for sure they are secretly planning to start another. But, WHY does a war start? Few seems to understand that collectives (peoples, tribus, etc) can interact in 2 main ways: Trade or war. Do one or another, and, as Hayek on once said, if the goods don’t cross the border, the tanks will. Also: is there a socialist in power? Socialists don’t know how to create wealth only redistribute it, once is finished they always start looking at the neighbors… Germany is quite safe according to those criteria, but if want to be estrictly about, then not only Germany but also USA can start another war soon.
Pffft- The idea that trade prevents or minimizes the risk of war is NOT borne out by fact.
er hmm
it’s the end of the beans for german banks (first)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aoElolQ0ELXc&pos=6 Swaps Soar on Germany’s ‘Act of Desperation’: Credit Markets
http://tinyurl.com/29xtpng Congress blocks indiscriminate IMF aid for Europe c’est fini ni ni for Greece
Attn: Marie Claude and brainpower555
This is a discussion space, not an insult board.
parles pour toi l’ami ! where were your clues for the discussion, your only purpose was to throw generalisations as facts, and of course spit at me, that didn’t buy your BS
Of course. You are french and french exists only to be spat at. I’m sorry for you, being a frenchie is a terrible shame.
no, it’s not a shame if you can assume your frenchitude, but I guess that you can’t.
Marie Claude,
tu délires, non?
no my dear, check the right places
Bern, your wording is not complete: To your statement “This is a discussion space, not an insult board”, it should be added: – Germans excluded. Be free to insult Germans. They deserve it. No further comments(one cannot fight opinions, because they do not have to represent facts).
By the way, my cheese-stinking frogeater c..t is free for every Germanophobe in the world. Enjoy
Whatever you think, you germanhaters here. Some people in this forum have a clue, some obviously not. I just finished watching a great miniseries on tv: “In the face of crime” by Dominik Graf
It is about german police fighting criminal alien gangs. And in one episode a police captain tells his brigade rather bluntly what he thinks about the situation. Usually you do not hear something like this on tv, and it sums up the situation in Germany quite well, so I translate it for you:
„The upper layer of this organized crime, those are now all business people, married, living like corporate chiefs. But beneath them is the old, raw meat, greedy, ruthless. From their perspective, it looks like that we Germans are dying out. We exist for them to buy, buy women, purchase drugs, we are stupid German money. They are the winners, the proud barbarians. They have flooded our country, are superior in vitality and strength.
Well, do we believe still in something? Shall we fight or let it happen here with us?
But be not discouraged by me. Some we can still do before we give up entirely. Don´t you think?”
The biblical story of Gideon’s Band comes to mind,
and the determination to pass that sort of spirit on,
refined and improved by hard-won wisdom; Reforged,
one might say.
For the English, who share Germanic ancestors, I suggest
rereading ‘Ulysses’ by Alfred Lord Tennyson, which begins:
It little profits that an idle king,
By this still hearth, among these barren crags,
Match’d with an aged wife, I mete and dole
Unequal laws unto a savage race,
That hoard and sleep, and feed, and know not me.
Great quote, fink. It would have sounded entirely appropriate at a 1939 Nazi rally, don’t you think?
I am sorry, but this gentleman’s words are true.
I think Germans were wrong to let any alien come to their country.
Sorry, but are you a racist?
Well, after all, why not?
Dr. Prager, however, whose writings I like very much, would beg to differ. But, after all, he is an utterly decent man…
Sir,
you might not be a little racist…;-)
What is your problem Gus?
With regard to contents, patriots in France, Netherlands, Denmark, UK, etc. could say and have said the same thing. Also Nazis? But cultivate your opinions and be happy with your worldview. Since you haven´t got a clue concerning my remarks about the gnostic dream (which is the root of Nationalsocialism and Internationalsocialism) you are free to shout your invectives without ever understanding that your liberal dreamworld has the same roots as the movements you seem to despise so much.
Whiskey is right. If Germans invade they now will do it by a gay parade and their main weapon will be gender-mainstreaming.
Just found this two gems to illustrate the vanity of the multicultural, nonracist utopia you seem to be so fond of:
Jonah O. : “As someone who is coming to the belated conclusion that I am temperamentally a traditionalist, but who has long since promoted a broad range of attitudes and structures that are at odds with traditionalism, I believe I may be of some use as a sort of translator, an honest witness to my own rapidly vanishing idea of the liberal endgame, of where it all leads.
The thing I envisioned was a shambling, spasmodic mass–a shapeless, asymptotic version of a declining metropolis, i.e., one in a constant, and therefore paradoxical, state of decline. This was Nineveh, you know, the great wen, the pandaemonium. The big commotion. Why would anyone wish for such a thing, or such a circumstance? Because in it could be found anything. Because it excluded nothing by definition, it would stand–or, rather, slouch–as an emporium like no other, as a great stage on which absolutely every aspect of the human tragicomedy would play out. Would there still be racial groups contesting with one another? Different languages? Tribes? Sure–but nobody would really be affected. There would be no critical mass. Every non-liberal formation would be present, but infinitesimal compared to the total mass. You might as well expect a small squad of capuchin monkeys to overthrow the zoo.
I use the word emporium for a reason: This vision is a species of haunt peculiar to mercantile societies. This is a money thing–and one of its most effective tactics against visions of non-liberal order is the threat of poverty, or at least separation from the great exchange. As a liberal, I didn’t particularly want political power, or equality, or any of the tactical baubles offered by the current democratic contenders. What I wanted, instead, was the very shambling mess that the promotion of such things would result in: a staggering, punch-drunk state, a chaotic social order and an infinity of identities.
I now realize that it is because I am, at heart, a traditionalist that I even saw the thing through to its end. Most liberals are fairly ahistorical; they are disinclined to watch the long cycles. In a youthful and self-consciously perverse act, of course, I persuaded myself that I desired the monstrous thing–that somehow I longed for sheer spectacle more than anything else. This is the sleep from which I am now awakening, but my point is that I don’t think this desire is particular. I think the figure of the great, endless, chaotic metropolis does animate modern liberalism to an extraordinary degree–just look at their popular culture. These are Babylonians, and I was one too.”
Leo Straus: “Man cannot reach his perfection except in society or, more precisely, in civil society. Civil society, or the city as the classics conceived of it, is a closed society and is, in addition, what today would be called a “small society.” … A society meant to make man’s perfection possible must be kept together by mutual trust, and trust presupposes acquaintance. Without such trust, the classics thought, there cannot be freedom; the alternative to the city, or a federation of cities, was the despotically ruled empire (headed, if possible, by a deified ruler) or a condition approaching anarchy…. Only a society small enough to permit mutual trust is small enough to permit mutual responsibility or supervision–the supervision of actions or manners which is indispensable for a society concerned with the perfection of its members; in a very large city, in “Babylon,” everyone can live more or less as he lists.” (Natural Right and History, pp. 130-131.)
And yes, because of the Nazis it is so easy to give every resistance against Babylon a bad name. That is the tragedy.
Your last sentence strikes me as most true. The liberal/left in Europe has been using the nazi example in order to push for diversity, multiculturalism, large scale immigration and a denigration of Western culture for decades now. I have often wondered how different the world would be vis’a'vis these subjects had WWII never occured.
Well one difference would be about 6 million less slaughtered Jews
I stand in solidarity with Germans, and any other people, who are awakening to the need to defend the existence of Western civilization. And make no mistake, it is facing a grave existential threat.
#61 “BRAINPOWER” 555. You misplaced the decimal point in your IQ score, genius. Let me help you;it’s one place value to the left,of the last 5.
“Englishmen in Germany: The Germans know how to fight; it is just that they are antiwar for obvious reasons.We must hope for all out sakes that they remain so.” Englishman, understand your concern, but resurgent German nationalism ala National Socialism is not what we should be worrying over, it is the threat of expansionist Islam, which is in many ways the ideological heir of Nazism. Read some of Ahmadinejad’s speeches sometime, if you lack for proof. The Germans have fully acknowledged the legacies of the war years, and have for decades taken concrete actions to address them, and then apologized again-and-again. When is enough? The vast majority of Germans alive today were born after WWII or were small children then. They had no involvement in the evils of Nazism; why should they apologize for them? Germans have a saying, “Nie Wieder Krieg,” or “Never Again War,” to foster vigilance against repeating the mistakes of that time. I cannot foresee fascism arising in the same time, place and manner as before; the Germans are alert to that threat. If aything, the threat is now the opposite – that Germany and the other European nations which fought both world wars lack the vitality and will to defend their way of life. Mark Steyn has written wonderfully on this in “America Alone.” It is questionable whether an ennervated Europe has the strength to survive resurgent Islam.
As esteemed commentator Dennnis Prager (who is Jewish) has remarked, the Germans learned the wrong lesson from WWII; namely never to fight, instead of fighting only when necessary and in the cause of good. If Europe is escape becoming Eurabia, we need good Germans (as we need good people of other European nations) to be unapologetic defenders of western civilization, and the freedom and prosperity which has been created out of the ashes of WWII.
We here in Canada have out Greece too. It’s called Quebec. They are just like the Greeks at this time in history. We tolerate and support them against our will.
On the upside, we don’t have a Portugal, Italy, Spain, or Ireland waiting in the wings for their gigantic jelly donut.
Good article, pointing out not only how to do it but also the inevidable. The same situation exists in North America. In the USA the mid-west and south support (against their will) California and the north east. The same conditions brought on a civil war 200 years ago. In Canada the west (Alberta BC and Saskatchewan) support the excesses of Quebec and the Maritimes.
Eventually any people that is exploited by having their life energy stolen to support those who want something for othing will rise up. Eventually????????????
“In the USA the mid-west and south support (against their will) California and the north east. The same conditions brought on a civil war 200 years ago.”
Jeez, they don’t teach you math, economics or history in redneck land?
Western Civ: An Euphemism for a once,murderously rabid corpse. Let’s see, One homicidal,drunken lurch from one psychotic, death-causing delusion to another.Feudalism,Monarchism,Catholicism,Protestantism, Nationalism,Capitalism,Communism,Nazism,Fascism, Colonialism, Followed by Pacifism, Multiculturalism,Post Modernism,Welfare Statetism, bla bla bla, all ending (or getting ready to end with hecatombs).MEMO to ISLAM:no need for terrorism, just watch the Athens mob, and project it to every Eurocountry.When they’re done with their self-destructive hysteria, then move in on the survivors;only don’t forget the whip,the remaining Euros will crave it!
Oh puhlease. While the old West had no limit to its issues, compared to the competing claims of Russia, China, the Muslim world, and the poor colonials, it ls pretty damn good. For one, Catholicism, Protestantism, Capitalism, and even colonialsm are not morally equivalent to Feudalism, fascism, nazism, and communism. The former had their dark sides to say the bloody least, but they also had their redeeming values. The latter… not so much. And the Athenian mob is nothing we haven’t seen before (take a look at some of the Depression era riots), andcan be quelled fairly easily.
In short, the West was not nearly as fatally flawed as you refer to. and compared to the alternatives, it is unspeakably nice.
It is a necessity for Germany to regain their national identity and soverignty over the central banks. The German’s are the ONLY europeans with the intestinal fortitude to go on their own – and clean house. Many a Rothschild needs to be cleaned up in this as well. Germany and it’s restored identity will honor the true Semitic people of Palestine, and Israel needs to be very concerned.
No, I’m not German. But, my ancestors were goaded into crossing the Atlantic to fight in two wars for all the wrong reasons. The tide is turning, and the thought police of Germany are first on the list.
Turtler: The West ,post-Pelopponessian war has been, and is, a slaughterhouse in the making;one totalizing mania designed to oppress and kill(always in the name of a greater good you understand)millions, for the benefits of those who stand to benefit from the mass idiocy.The end will come when the last spasm of the West’s psychotic mind: globalization/multiculturalism,leads to a Muslim invasion and occupation.Would this be an improvement? I leave it to the reader to decide. Islam would mean the extermination physical and political of Western progressives, the end of economic globalization,Post- Modernism, feminism, affirmative action,Yuppies,and other Western outrages.Think about it.Muslims are really,in the last analysis, just conservatives with teeth!
TURTLER#2 Feudalism, Roman Imperialism and Colonialism killed tens of millions of innocent people.Christianity, and its hysterical offshoot:Protestantism led to dozens of hideous religious wars in Europe, which culminated in the Thirty years war, which killed millions, depopulating Germany.Shall I go on? England and France waged a War FOR drugs in order to impose drug addiction on the reluctant Chinese.When Western man decided that maybe the customary regime of oppression and slaughter needed to be changed, it came up with Marxism, the Gulags, and even better ways to kill himself! western-so-called-civilization ‘What a Fraud!
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