Real Liberals Should Support Israel
Of particular interest to those on the Israel Experience trip was the Israeli concern for human rights. During a presentation by Joe Hyams of Honest Reporting, we saw videos of Israeli pilots redirecting missiles targeting Hamas operatives at the last moment to stop from killing civilians, even if those civilians were opening their doors to the terrorists. The Israelis also sent automated messages and text messages to areas before strikes during Operation Cast Lead in an attempt to get civilians to flee. The Israelis haven’t even cut off the Ashkelon power station that provides the Gaza Strip with 70% of its electricity. Hamas, on the other hand, has frequently targeted it with its missiles.
In academia, I’ve noticed that the discussion almost always centers on some sort of moral equivalence between the two sides, as if the conflict stems from both sides’ equal dose of hatred and unwillingness to compromise. Such discussion erases the Israeli handovers of territory to the Palestinians and fails to account for the lengths to which Israel goes to defend itself humanely, whereas Hamas, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, and other terrorist groups see inhumanity as a weapon of war and diplomatic tool.
There will be haters no matter what, but on the Israeli side, such hatred is not mainstream or institutionalized. In every conversation I can remember I had with an Israeli, the suffering of the Palestinians was always mentioned as part of the equation. While discussing their own suffering, they’d always turn and say something along the lines of: “You know, the Palestinians don’t deserve what they’re going through either; it’s unacceptable.”
Israel has adopted virtually every liberal cause. The Jewish state has taken in 1,700 refugees from Darfur, giving Africa the attention Hollywood has demanded. Israel does not do so for recognition, as surely they know by now they will never get any, but because it’s simply the right thing to do.
Environmentalists should be hailing Israel as a model. Twenty percent of the water used by Israel will be desalinated by 2010 and, according to Israel @ 60, “Israel treats 92 percent of its wastewater and reuses 75 percent in agriculture, the highest rate in the world.” Israel stands nearly alone as having more trees today than at the beginning of the last century and “is one of two countries in the world in which deserts are shrinking rather than expanding.”
Investing in electric cars and other forms of alternative energy, bacteria that can dissolve oil spills, and other green technology, Israel is taking a leading role in helping the environment. With the current health care debate in the U.S. raging, liberals should also take notice that Israel provides national health insurance — or, as conservatives would say, socialized health care. When we visited a hospital, our guide articulately defended the concept and criticized the American health care system in a way that would have made any Democratic Party operative proud.
Whether it’s protecting and respecting human life or preserving the rights of citizens despite the highest temptation to restrict them, Israel is a bastion of liberalism and progressivism. For liberals to not support Israel is to not support the very issues they fight for at home.
“[The Arab citizens of Israel] are provided with social services, serve in the military, and even are elected to the Knesset.”
While true, strictly speaking, this sentence does contain a misleading inaccuracy regarding military service.
As far as military service is concerned, the Arab population of Israel is divided into two groups:
1) The large majority: Are not subject to military draft, though a very small number do volunteer. Some volunteer for national service, as opposed to the army.
2) Certain minority groups – The Druze, Circassians, Bedouin: These are subject to the draft, and for the large part serve in the army just as the Jews do. The bedouin have a special scouting unit, and many choose to serve there, to take advantage of their familiarity with the desert.
As a general rule, this holds true; Of course, there are exceptions. Each sub-minority group has its own sub-sub-minority group.
This article is so true. I often wondered how so many people backed the Arabs in this conflict. They are the side that are opposed to religous freedom, gay rights, freedom of speech, womans rights and so many more offences. I guess the reason is that most people get their information from 2 minutes of CNN a day and CNN is notorious for its bias. In the immortal words of Alexander Hamilton (i think he said it first) “The masses are asses.”
Good job Ryan.
Liberal Jews don’t even support Israel, why would one expect liberal non-jews to support Israel?
Israel is pretty gay friendly in general, but gays in Jerusalem have been attacked physically by Orthodox Jews on occasion, who have also opposed the gay pride march there. Recently a gunman murdered several people at the Tel Aviv Gay Community Center (he hasnt been found AFAIK so we dont know what ideology or personal problem was driving him).
A lot of Israelis and especially religious Israeli Jews are hardly happy about the so called progressiveness of Israel that this article touts.
We could do without the in your face blatant homosexuality that our media and our pressure groups force upon us.
We are sick and tired of warning our murderous Palestinian enemies that we are about to defend ourselves, thus protecting them and endangering our soldiers.
We are by and large disgusted with our liberal judiciary which routinely sacrifices Jewish rights to satisfy the Arabs or the international community. Land bought by Jewish owners, or by Jewish donations, or towns built specifically for Jews to live in must by judicial fiat and in the name of democracy, allow Arabs to buy or rent there.
We could do with a lot less progressivism here in Israel.
Liberals don’t like Israel because they have bought into the multi-cultural ideals that everyone has the right to their own culture except whites, that the democratic West is evil but third world despots and oil princes are good because we have to respect their culture and that the major ills of the world were caused by colonialism. Of course, the major flaw in their thinking is that they wrongfully believe Jews to be white, greedy European colonialists while Palestinians are the brown, oppressed natives. Mix that with heady dose of antisemitism long found on the left and the infantilization of Muslims (they can’t help b ut be violent look how we provoke them.. OMG its a cartoon!!) and you see why liberals are supporting terrorist regimes who are the antithsis of everything liberals claim to hold dear.
“Liberals” don’t believe in fighting for freedom. They aren’t liberals anymore; they’re socialists, propogandists, and LEFTISTS. All beliefs which subjugate human beings.
Those on the front line of the fight for freedom worldwide are conservatives.
The true “liberals” are the conservatives.
Liberal Jews
This subject is a reoccurring theme here which won’t elicit any meaningful post or reply for it’s complexity and multifaceted aspect.
There is an excellent article/study in Podhoretz Commentary magazine by five conservative, prominent Jewish thinkers. Before we engage in a simplistic, personal opining session, one needs an “immersion” course into the intricate details of any subject to be considered as as astute, well informed poster.
It’s worth spending time by reading the article:
“Why Are Jews Liberals?—A Symposium
David Wolpe, Jonathan D. Sarna, Michael Medved, William Kristol and Jeff Jacoby
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/viewarticle.cfm/why-are-jews-liberals-a-symposium-15223?page=all
You seem to think that this laundry list of issues is at all important to those who believe Israel shouldn’t even exist.
It will not matter to such people if Israelis discover cold fusion, provide food to the entire world, have a society in perfect harmony, yadda yadda yadda. Pointing out their inconsistencies will do nothing except get them angry or have them ignore you.
Kicking out a people from their land and making them refugees on its outskirts in camps makes that land oppressive. It doesn’t matter if you kicked them out to set up utopia. I don’t think Texans would be happy if a group of Ugandans swept in, kicked out people from their homes then made that region a bastion of liberalism, irrigated the land green and gave everyone healthcare. Wrong is still wrong. And kicking out people from their land is wrong. Even if you erect heaven on earth in place of the homes you bulldozed.
John,
You are right kicking people out from their land is wrong. But Israel didn’t do that.
Before WWI, Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire and home to Jews, Arabs, Druze, and more.. but there weren’t that many of them and Palestine wasn’t even a place in political terms. While Jews had always lived there, they began immigrating in the 19th century en masse. Land was purchased for settlements; most of the land was in fact owned by men who lived in what we now call Turkey.
When the Ottoman empire collapsed with WWI, the British took control of the region and what was called Mandate Palestine included what is today Jordan, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank. ALL nations that currently exist in that region were created by European powers at this time.. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt. The boundaries were all set by Europeans. Britain promised to set aside part of Palestine for a Jewish homeland and segmented the rest off (77%) into Transjordan (eventually to become Jordan) for Arabs.
Again and again, the promises to make a Jewish nation were denied and delayed. Jewish immigration was severly limited under British rule though Arab immigration was not. How many Jews could have been saved if not for the British?
Eventually, after many Arab massacres of Jews (unpunished by the British), the UN did declare the creation of Israel and Palestine. So that little 23% set aside for Jews was split once again. Of course, Israel’s neighbors attacked, asking Arabs in the region to flee. Tiny Israel won and began to thrive.
Poor Palestine was absorbed by Jordan and Egypt; those who had fled during the war were put in refugee camps built by Jordan and Egypt rather than allowed to settle in established communities. Agencies from around the world were put in place to assist the refugees. Of course, mind you those so-called refugee camps today are cities really with sewage and services, paved roads and strong buildings like anywhere else. At the same time, Jews from around the Arab world were kicked out, their possessions taken and had no place to go but Israel.. who absorbed them and provided for them without ANY international help outside the Jewish community.
IF you think that Israel’s creation by the UN was invalid, then the borders of Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt are just as invalid… as all were created by Europeans.
The only thing that the extreme left and the extreme right agree on is Jew hatred. Unfortunately there are those Israelis on the left who also subscribe to this philosophy as there are here in this country, eg. Noam Chomsky.
#10 John, I see you are a student of history that goes all the way back to what, 1948 or 1967? Or just from your own birth year? Texas, it really belongs to the Mexicans who took it away from the Indians who took it away from someone else.
Best to ignore the Jew-hating know-nothing lying “Free Palestine” trolls like John K at *10 above,and stay on the subject..
so here is my five cents worth, Thomas is correct when he writes it is a complex subject, the Judenhass of the Left and their apathy at best regarding Israel – so an off the cuff quip or two is not going to address the why of it, or offer any insight into Leftwing anti-Semitism and for that matter the moral relativism of the Left as a whole and related.
With that said it is well-known that the anti-Semitism of the Left is predominantly derived from the stereotype of the Jew as the greedy ruthless capitalist, Marx himself had this belief and it is pervasive among the Left. There are of course other factors, the anti-Semitic and anti-Israel discourse of the old Soviet Union had an influence on the Western Left, Holocaust guilt among the West, given Western apathy and complicity in the Shoa. One of the most obvious and simple explanations is the simple passing of anti-Semitism from parent to child, and so one cannot restrict it solely to any political group, ie in this case the Left, albeit such a phenomenon is inclusive of Leftist ideologues. Everything I write though just skims the surface, as Thomas points out.
As far as Jewish liberalism and self-loathing goes, yes it is complex, I think among the most insightful commentators here is Ken Levin and his book ‘The Olso Syndrome: Delusions of a People under Seige’ is a must-read here.
Sorry John, but most Palestinians weren’t kicked out. They had land. The territory know as Palestine was divided into 3 countries. Palestine, Jordan and Israel. The Palestinian Arabs lost several wars and lost their land (Palestine) that way. HOWEVER!!! After 1948 Jews from the surrounding Arab countries were kicked out of their homes and lost their businesses and all of their possessions; approximately 800,000 Arab Jews. However, instead of keeping them in “refugee camps” they went to Israel (and other countries) and were integrated into society. So for those who feel the Palestinians need to be compensated because of a situation of their own doing (and with the help of the surrounding Arab countries who went to war for and with them in 48 etc.) than you had better dam well keep those 800,000 Jew in mind as well!
I suggest you actually read about the history from different sources and learn the whole story before judging. I mean please, is Jordan which was also known as Palestine and outskirt? Is the West Bank and outskirt? They were also called Palestine where so called Palestinians (Jews, “Jordanians”, Bedouins, Druze lived and live).
Lisa,
It’s just as wrong if people are expelled due to someone else’s action on one’s behalf (e.g. British carving out the ME post-European oppression of jews) as it is when it is by one’s own actions. The bulldozing and kicking out of people from their land is not something that happened only after the mandate post-WWII, but STILL goes on (remember Rachel Corrie?). That’s not right according to Judaism (or any other religion for that matter). You can’t take someone else’s land and call it your own, even if the British did it for you. It’s not about borders it’s about who has kicked you out of your home. The Jordanian, Syrian, etc borders didn’t entail kicking out of people…those were formation of political boundaries; forming Israel on the other hand consisted of a transplant: take out the people who live there and move in people who didn’t.
Karen, why do you think we were able to live for so long in the ME w/ our Arab neighbors much more peacefully than in Europe (when Europeans were persecuting) then expelled from our homes around 1948 just as Israel was forming???
John,
Very few were expelled except 800,000 Jews from Arab nations. Most Arabs who fled during 1948 did so at the request of Arab leaders.
As for the bulldozing and kicking people off their land, again, it’s not happening. Homes are only destroyed when they hide tunnels or arms caches or are used as shrines to suicide bombers.
Why are you so upset by this and not by the MILLIONS of other people who were moved by force after WWII? India and Pakistan come to mind but there were other places in Europe as well.
I too spent three weeks in Israel back when GWB was running against algore. The sensible jews I encountered ( I’d guess about half fit this category ) were worried that Bush would not win.
Now with a crazy jew hating marxist in the White House it appears Israelis have shifted to the right quite a bit. They are truly wondering how they are going to survive their coming war with Iran. ( with Syria and Lebanon chiming in )
For those who would like to have a better understanding of just what’s what in Israel I highly recommend the writings of Caroline Glick, editor of the Jerusalem Post. She has her own blog as well.
Lisa,
That was a good synopsis. But John probably knows this and does not care. He just wants the Hillary Plan: No Israel No Problem.
So John, are you saying that the creation of the state of Israel (along with other Arab countries at the same time) gave Iraq, Lybia, Egypt etc. the right to expel their citizens who happened to be Jewish? Talk about racism!! You know what else is racist? A Jew free West Bank! Arabs can live in Israel, but the future Palestinian state wants to have no Jews and this is okay with so called Liberals. That Arabs and Muslims can come live in my country (Canada) and yet they believe Jews should have no right to live on the land of their ancient homeland is pure hypocrisy and that the so-called progressives of this world miss this point explains a lot to me.
John is so upset, because he holds Jews to a different standard than other peoples. Probably John just doesnt like Jews full stop. Except for those Jews who hate themselves and other Jews, then they are OK in Johnnies mind.
Sorry Johhny come lately, but your narrative doesnt reflect “real” history, but appears to tune nicely with the widely accepted progressive arabist anti Jew make believe history of say Sweden or spain or nazis germany!!!!
Lisa,
It’s historically incorrect to say that very few were expelled from Palestine by jews. Over 700,000 palestinians were expelled to form Israel and made refugees (UNRWA). Other estimates put this as high as about 1 million. The expulsion of Palestinians from their homes was an antecedent to jews being unwelcome in Arab lands.
Jews used to live w/ Muslims and Arabs for 100s of years and treated better than in Christian Europe. They were expelled only in 1948 after Israel was formed (not the other way).
Part of being a great people is to accept what we did wrong, especially when you know it in the heart.
John Kritzwald is right about one thing here. The Israeli bulldozing and kicking out of people from their land is not something that happened after the mandate, it is not something that happened before the mandate, it is not something that happened at all, so stop complaining about it!
Yes, she was an idiot who to went to Israel to teach Arabs to burn American flags and support terrorism. Rachel Corrie’s activism is supposed to get a person pulled aside and shot in the head. The fact that her death was an accident just goes to show how far to the left Israel is.
Then it’s a good thing the Zionists bought their land when they moved to Israel. This did not prevent the Arab-Israeli conflict from starting with the same justification it continues with today: some racists among the Arabs consider themselves the supreme race and will not accept any Jews — traditionally the lowest caste of the Middle East — to be above them in business, society, or politics. It’s the same as white racism against blacks in the South: not wanting “those people” in the neighbourhood and not recognizing “those people” as equals. The difference is that huge sections of Arab society are allowed to be run by the Palestinians, the Arab equivalent of the Klan. Imagine if the KKK controlled all the white schools in the South for thirty years, had forced blacks out of all the white-majority towns, and was given full reign to lynch any whites who opposed them, the way the Palestinians have been doing to the Arab left. John Kritzwald would be somebody blaming the Negroes for further anti-black violence because the Klan says it’s all their fault.
Personally, I’m fed up with the constant ‘public’ display of the gay sex movement. What’s with this ‘look at me’, and ‘look at me, again’. Are they totally lost to recognise what normal, usual behaviour is? Life is not a constant parade of one’s sexual fantasies. Who gives a damm about someone else’s wet dreams? They give the impression that their whole being is obsessed with their sex, sex…..and lets not forget – more sex!
Every single one of these displays points out: I need to validate that I am not in error. Yet they do not question this displayed need.
It’s all a bunch of rubbish. Let them do as the rest of us. Go home and go to work. Forget tacky displays of no taste.
John (#21), your numbers are simply wrong. The number of those truly “expelled” was only in the thousands, mostly from strategically vulnerable areas (around the supply route to Jerusalem, for example). The vast majority fled because their leaders fled, because Arab leaders were encouraging it, or because there was a war on. (Even Benny Morris acknowledges this.) The numbers registered as “refugees” was roughly 650,000, but that number was based on residence of as little as TWO YEARS! Why so brief? Because in the 1920s and 1930s, as Jewish immigration was limited, there was large scale Arab immigration from what today are Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt and Saudi Arabia into “Jewish” Palestine for work.
It’s also unfortunate that you buy the myth that Jews were “treated better than in Christian Europe”. In fact, the Jewish experience varied in time and place. The Damascus Blood Libel and the forced conversion of Persian Jews in the 19th century that had them fleeing eastward (into Afghanistan), the mellahs (ghettos) of Morocco, etc. My own grandfather perished in the “death march” of Jews out of Syria in the closing days of WW I. And we shouldn’t forget the Arab pogroms in Palestine of 1920, 1929 and 1936, or the Nazi-inspired “Farhad” pogrom that took place in Iraq in 1941, or the Arab collaboration with the Nazis in North Africa.
How many decades are we going to persist in this fruitless exercise of explaining to liberals why they should agree with us? Liberals aren’t driven by reason, they have an emotional reaction to an argument or situation and then make it up as they go along.
Liberals will no more support Israel to demonstrate they live by principle than a teenager will accept a smaller allowance to keep dad from going bankrupt. They want what they want, when they want it, and the world be damned.
Liberals are the enemy in our midst, supporting every enemy of their enemy, us, and giving aid and comfort to America’s mortal enemies.
John, you seem to hve a rigid view of land possession, at least when it comes to Israel. So, when will you turn your property over to Native Americans?
Even a cursory knowledge of history would enable you to know that every part of the earth has seen the coming and going of peoples over millenia. It’s almost always too late to remake things as they were, and the way they were was usually not that way for all time.
The problems between all of the Arabs and all of the Jews are much to complex to even address within this forum. However, one thing almost the entire free, and unfree world knows is that the solution(s) to “their” conflict (1) involves all of us and (2) must be dealt with by their learders who are capable of thinking “outside the box.” Any solution that comes from inside the box thinking has already been thought of and either tried or not yet tried, because of inside the box leadership. Its, in the words of almost everyone….a mess.
John many people commenting here are ignorant racists so they will never fully undersand the real situation. John most people complaining here claim to be Christian. Jesus Christ himself would never ever join in worship with these people. They worship race, religion, land, money and power. Hence all the problems in the world start with the people here. Evil.
It’s simple to understand your point but people don’t want to see it as it would go against everything their pastor has taught them. Did you see evengelists standing up against the Iraq and Afghan wars? Do you see them trying to difusse the situation with Iran? No but these people claim to be Christian.
It was really the gays and lesbians who stood with Christ on these issues. Who is the sinner now?
FOR YOUR INFORMATION PEOPLE, ARABS WERE FIRST JESUS CHRIST FOLLOWERS BEFORE BEING CONVERTED TO ISLAM. You have sinned by allowing Palestinian Christians to die at the hands of jews and muslims because you worship a land. Now Bethlehem is a Christian museum.
Christ sends many thanks…
Ancient thought patterns clash with modern enlightenment.
Stone age religious dogma, with built in self-preservation enhancements, fights tooth and nail to stave off the juggernaut of the coming age of human understanding.
The age of the shedding of the Neanderthal mental inheritance is upon us. Adjust or perish.
Lisa:
I’ve spoken to people who WERE KICKED OUT of their homes, i.e. expelled from their homes when Israel was created as an independent state. They were sitting in their homes when soldiers showed up, told them to pack their things, and kicked them out. They sat on the roadside and watched the soldiers move other people into their homes! With no other place to go, these displaced citizens were forced to move into refugee camps.
Look, I am not defending either side. The Europeans have done more than their share to screw up things in this world, and the ME is no exception. I understand the reasons why both sides did/do what they did/do. I do not condone violence, and I do not condone what either side is doing now. However, the crap has gone on long enough and both sides are a bit raw from what the other side has done. Enough with the “well, they did this,” and “well, they did that first.” Get over yourselves, stop looking at the problem from a victim POV, and come up with some creative solutions that respect the needs of both religions as well as human rights (GLBT, women, etc).
@Scott M: where do you get that garbage about liberals- Beck, O’Reilly, Limbaugh, or Hannity? Nice parroting, can you find even one shred of evidence to back up your claim?
Scott, you are spot on.
Caroline Click always frames it out in a clear, concise manner.
As to those who drop the name of rachel corrie to make a point – simply a waste of time to dignify it with a response.
Thank you John Kritzwald for your courage and for standing up for right against wrong.
The author seems to think that if one can find a few positive aspects regarding Israel then it should be somehow rational to ignore Israeli terrorism, war crimes, murder, theft, abduction etc… I have yet to find someone who can explain why they are so pro-Israel.
Tang: What was the percentage of land owned by Jews in Palestine before the creation of Israel?
The piece is beyond creepy in it’s propaganda content!
Liars and deceivers will not enter the Kingdom of God. “… all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” (Revelation 21:6-8 NIV)
Peter in Galatians let us know “Gal 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ…29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
The article offends everyone who loves the Truth. It has the smoke of the Deceiver in it. The author wishes to subordinate the sons of God to the will of those who are opposed to the truth. Even God cannot co-operate with evil.
I don’t know what Gospel this man is preaching but it is not the Gospel of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.
There is a reason we Jews have a saying, “it doesn’t matter what the goyim think, it matters what WE do.” The reason is this. The goyim, even when they mean well, as the author of this article obviously does, manage to screw things up. The vast majority of them just do not understand us from the inside at all, and can’t. They are not Jews. That is not criticism, that is just reality.
The only goyim who do understand us from the inside are those who are Noahides, and a very small group of Christians who love Israel with NO desire to convert us to their own faith.
Let’s look at the homosexuality issue raised by the author. Israel generally does not attack homosexuals at all, and, compared to the rest of the world, there is very little discrimination against them.
But G-d tells the Children of Israel, summarizing Leviticus 18, that the people living in the land are being vomited out because of the sexual customs they follow. Leviticus 18:22 calls homosexual behavior between men an abomination.
For too many Christians (and Jews), this is the end of the story. But it is not the end of the story.
Leviticus 20 calls for the death penalty for homosexual behavior between men. In Deuteronomy, we find that one cannot put a person to death without the testimony of two to three witnesses. This means that the act bringing down a death penalty has to be public enough for two or three people to see it. What goes on behind closed doors is not the business of the world. And sex generally goes on behind closed doors. The question is when does it not?
The answer is in an orgy. When does one find an orgy? In ancient Canaan, one found orgiastic rites in the temples devoted to the stone idols and at the ashera trees where sacrifices were made. In ancient Canaan, there was temple prostitution, both male and female, and it catered to all tastes in sexual desire.
THIS WAS PUBLIC, AND ONE COULD GENERALLY FIND TWO TO THREE WITNESSES SAYING THAT TWO MEN HAD HAD SEX. THIS WAS THE TARGET OF LEVITICUS 18:22.
Let’s translate that into modern terms. Bear in mind that there is a percentage of humans who are homosexual, and this is, more than anything else, a matter of biology rather than choice (though there are cases where straight guys cross over to the “dark side”). So private homosexual behavior is natural and normal – for those whose orientation is homosexual. So long as it takes place behind closed doors, in private with no witnesses, in other words, the Children of Israel are safe from Divine Anger.
Public homosexual behavior will take place at a “pride parade”, and often these “parades” feature orgy-like behavior.
Israel, which does not really discrimninate against homosexuals the way other nations do, DOES NOT NEED A PRIDE PARADE! They are useful in New York, to commemorate the attack on police by homosexual men sick of police raids in 1970, they are useful in India, and maybe in San Francisco. But we in Israel do not need them.
All these parades do is invite Divine Anger.
The religion of the Children of Israel basically specifies that people pursue their sexual needs in private – not in public. And so long as this happens, we are fine. As for sexual exploitation – i.e. men beating wives, parents (or other adults) attacking or abusing children or rape – or women using abortion as a means of birth control – all this is wrong.
But when one reads and reflects on the prohibitions in the Torah, homosexual behavior in private between men is to be tolerated; G-d, after all created them as well as heterosexuals and created them in a steady proportion to the population. It hardly seems right to execute a homosexual for something that is not his fault.
John Kritzwald is correct, to a point. Since it was Rome that kicked the Jews out of Judea (later called Palestine), then Italy should be held accountable for the actions that ultimately led to the current situation. The creation of Israel was no more or less the official return of the government that existed there 1900 years earlier. So the “Palestinians” were the occupiers of historically Jewish territory.
Let’s not for get that the Jews alive today who were born in the area before 1948 are *also* Palestinians, since they were born in Palestine. “Palestine” is a geographic location, not a sub-species. Perhaps if the people who call themselves “palestinians” stopped worshipping the cult of victimhood they could make some real progress in the world. But they seem to feel the need to kill each other as much as Israelis.
Instead of trying to re-write history, and also hold Israel to a standard no other country is held to, why don’t the lefties stick to the topic and answer one question: Are openly gay people better off in Israel or the Gaza Strip? And no, citing Yasser Arafat is not a good counter-example.
George Gilder speaks of the Israel test:
“The [Israel] test can be summarized by a few questions: What is your attitude toward people who excel you in the creation of wealth or in other accomplishments? Do you aspire to their excellence or do you seethe at it? Do you admire and celebrate exceptional achievement or do you impugn it and seek to tear it down?”
The Palestinian movement and its supporters have come to represent pure resentment–the Israelis have been desperate to get the Palestinians to accept a state since 1993, but the Palestinians can’t, because doing so would mean giving up their grievances and the attention and sense of invincible righteousness it gives them (not to mention the pathological relations with their international supporters, to which they have grown addicted). The alternative would be to abandon their irredentist ambitions and partner with the Israelis, who would be glad to help guide them through the same path toward prosperity the Israelis themselves have forged.
I’m a conservative and a Christian, and I support Israel. I don’t support Hamas, and I don’t support Syria, and I don’t support Egypt, and I don’t support Obama, and I certainly don’t support those clueless imbeciles who claim to be “Palestinians”. I guess some liberals and some Jews haven’t learned their history lessons yet. What’s that old saw? Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.
I see the libtards went and rounded up a bunch of their friends to spout their revisionist lies and BS at us. Well you can vomit up all the newspeak you want and it won’t stick but for a while. The truth will out and all of you will go down the glory hole of history. You all know you are liars. You know what your hidden agenda is and that you will say anything and eventually do anything to advance it. But you will never win other than an occasional battle, a brief period of history here and there. The human spirit yearns to be free and we will pound you into a greasy spot every time. Enjoy the moment you minions of monstrous defilement. Your justice is coming. Swiftly and without mercy.
I’m not usually a fan of backing Israel in the Middle East because of my desire to fend for the US before all else and that I think our taxpayer money should be spent here, but I do agree with article heavily. I believe that Israel faces such strong opposition and criticism is because they are an organized first world government while groups like Hamas are not.
Hamas is a group of thugs and blinded fools who think that the destruction of Israel and the Jews will…well, you know, I really don’t know what they think will happen. You see, Israel will go on with a normal existence if those opposing them were to disappear. The nation would function properly and life would go on.
But what I don’t understand is what groups like Hamas would do. They are built almost entirely to hate. That region is mostly of a third world variety. What do they want out of this conflict? To live peacefully on desert land as they already have the ability to do? Or do they not even have actual humane and acceptable goals at all?
@21 John
John, how would you feel if an ethnic group, defeated in battle, was uprooted from the lands they had been inhabiting for centuries, and to have this happen as recently as the late 1940′s?
Well it did… in GERMANY.
At the end of WWII, large German communities still inhabited the western portions of Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Hungary, some on lands they had owned since the Middle Ages. But the victorious Allied powers decided these states should be more ethnically homogenous, to avoid further destabilizing conflicts. The Americans, British, and Soviets agreed at the Potsdam Conference of July, 1945, that these Germans had to leave. Article XIII reads:
“The Three Governments, having considered the question in all its aspects, recognize that the transfer to Germany of German populations, or elements thereof, remaining in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary, will have to be undertaken.”
12 million Germans were expelled, transferred to Allied-controlled Germany. They left with little more than the shirt on their backs, with no compensation for the properties they left behind. 2-3 million died along the way. The suffering created was massive, and the legality of the process was nebulous. Add to this thet fact that a quarter of Germany’s territory was annexed by Poland or the Soviets.
But however terrible that event was, it was not unique.
The period between 1946-1952 saw many such injustices, involving millions of refugees. Other upheavals of that period included 14 million Hindus/Muslims who were forced to flee after the partition of Pakistan/India (500,00 died in the process), the 800,000 Jews forced to flee centuries-old communities across the Arab world, and the thousands who fled or were killed by the Chinese after the 1950 invasion of Tibet. All these tragic acts saw land takings, expulsions, and the creation of millions of refugees, most of which were never repatriated, nor compensated for their losses.
Why do we not hear of the plight of refugees from Germany, or India, or Jews from Arab lands?
Because they, unlike the Palestinians, were absorbed by their kin in neighboring countries. The Palestinians are the ONLY group who includes their offspring as “refugees” as well. Hence, each year, the number of “refugees” grows. Never mind that these new additions have mostly been born and raised on Arab soil. How ironic, that Palestinians yearn to “return” to Israeli-controlled Palestine, when most of them have never set foot there. How terribly cruel it must be, to exist as a 59 year-old Palestinian, born and raised in a camp in Lebanon, and yet have no citizenship, no right to purchase land, and be subject to limited movement, or access to employment and healthcare.
“The Arab States do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as an affront to the United Nations and as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders don’t give a damn whether the refugees live or die.” -Ralph Garroway, former UNWRA director, 1958.
The creation of Israel may have provoked a major refugee crisis, but that was hardly any different from other contemporary crises. What has made the situation unique is how the Arabs, the very ones claiming to defend the Palestinians, have perpetuated the Palestinian’s plight, in order to use them as political pawns in the war against Israel.
40. scott: “I see the libtards went and rounded up a bunch of their friends …. we will pound you into a greasy spot every time. Enjoy the moment you minions of monstrous defilement. Your justice is coming. Swiftly and without mercy.”
Oh, Scotty, you’re off your meds again.
#29
We have really come full circle when the so-called age of human understanding is preaching…Adjust or Perish!
The age of human understanding does not understand humans. It should be titled the age of yet another human delusion.
Beware those preaching human understanding.
Did the Jews expel 711,000 Palestinians in 1948?
Though some were expelled, most were not. Some fled because of the war (wars USUALLY create refugees…), others because they did not want to become a minority within a Jewish state, and still others at the beckoning of the advancing Arab armies, who assured them they would be able to return once they had defeated the Jews.
“Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return.” -Haled al Azm, Syrian Prime Minster in 1948-49.
“The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Hews used to live.” -Mahmud Abbas, 1976
Admittedly, some Arabs were indeed expelled. Plan Dalet, a Haganah military operations plan, was formulated to clear the land from hostile forces. It was meant as a defensive operation, but in some instances its directives may have been abused. So, taking advantage of the war, and in the name of “security,” the Jews did expel some Arabs. But it’s hard to assert there was a systematic effort to remove Arabs, given that after the war, there were still 156,000 within Israel, all of which received citizenship.
And in recognizing possible Israeli abuses, one must also recognize the circumstances surrounding them. By 1947, Palestine was engulfed in a civil war, where the Jews were being threatened by Arabs with obliteration, and being “pushed into the sea”:
“This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.” -Azzam Pasha, Arab League Secretary, 1948
“Arabs, arise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you.” Amin al-Husayni, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, 1947, the same Mufti who had conferred with Hitler, showing interest on how to export the Jewish “Final Solution” to Palestine.
The Jews did not take these threats lightly, as they had heard similar threats come true before, by the Nazis, the Russians, the Arabs, and many others who over the centuries have slaughtered Jews. In fact, most Jews in Israel can trace their immigrant roots to persecution, either in European or Arab lands. Would any other people have reacted differently?
Still, perhaps some form of compensation should be worked out. This, provided the Arabs compensated the 600-800,000 Jewish refugees for their losses as well. Unfortunately, there’s little chance of that ever happening, so the impasse remains.
But, ultimately, the point is moot, as the Palestinians aren’t interested in compensations. They won’t accept compromises. They want the land, ALL of it. “Ending the Occupation” is essentially a euphemism for “Ending the State of Israel.” After all, the destruction of Israel has been an Arab priority since the day Israel was born.
The “Palestinians” have a nation. It’s called Jordan.
Consider all the billions of dollars that have been poured into Gaza by the rest of the world, and how little the Palestinians have accomplished with it. The sole purpose of their existence is to destroy Israel. Maybe it would be a good idea to turn off the money spigot?
Anything to throw a few billion away every year…its only money.
“Over 700,000 palestinians were expelled to form Israel”
This is a barefaced lie, Kritzwald. Here is the history you are lying about: The UN partitioned Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state, with no one required to move. The *Jews* accepted the partition while the *Arabs* rejected it and when Israel declared itself a state the Arabs began a war openly declared to be one of annihilation. It was only during this war of self-defense that the Palestinian Arabs became refugees and there is much dispute as to how many were actually “expelled” as opposed to leaving at the urging of their Arab “brothers” who told them they would kill all the Jews and get all of Palestine back for them.
Similarly the 1967 war that led to the dreaded “occupation” was instigated by Arab states threatening the annihilation of Israel, to wit, “We will finish what Hitler started” (an exact quote).
Over 700,000 palestinians were expelled to form Israel
Even Palestinans say that mlost of them left after an injunction of the Arab Armies telling them to leave because their presence hidnered operations and anyway “it would be a just a mettetr of a few days”. That and the lies aboutr the Der Yassin “massacre” who panicked the Palestinin populqation.
Now, tell me why tehy are ignoring
1) The many anti-Jew pogroms during teh thirties
2) The contacvts with the Nazis
3) The fact that about as many Oriental Jews (people who were there since before the Roman occupation) had to flee from the Arab countries
4) The defaning silence when Palestinans are victims of other Arabs. The UAE has given its Palestininas one month to leave. Menaing that they will have t sell tehir possesions at highly unfavourable conditions. Have you heard one of theo National Liberalisten object? I haven’t
5) The deafening silence about Sudan. Hundefreds of thousands of murders, eblavings and rapes but no Sudanese flag has ever been burnt. Those Blacks are of no interest to Liberals since they dodn’t want to kill Jews
Show me a Pro-Palestinian activist and I will show you a closet Nazi.
“Show me a Pro-Palestinian activist and I will show you a closet Nazi.”
Well said JFM
I have to add, as I wrote further up, people really – don’t waste your time arguing with the Jew-hating trolls like John K. You are not going to change their minds, anything you write will just be ignored, and they will continue to spout out their Jew-hate lies like the mindless zombies they are. Nothing you write will make any difference to them, ever. They have to merely be exposed for the Jew-haters they are, as JFM points out above, and that is that.
You cannot appeal to reason and truth with bigots, who in principle have no reason and despise truth.
Good news about Islam!
There is a wonderful, new Islamist search engine inaugurated on the web, called imhalal.com (to wit, I-am-halal) I recommend to all of you.
My first query was – I need instructions on how to beat my wife – so I asked about it:
“Wife Beating By: Dr. Jamal Badawi”
If the problem relates to the wife’s behavior, her husband may exhort her and appeal for reason. …
islamic-world.net/sister/wife_beating.htm
“Wife Beating”. Answered by Shaykh Gibril F Haddad. Archbishop of Canterbury and his wife – that beating …
qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?id=612
Saudi Man Arrested for Beheading Mother-in-Law. Arabian man for allegedly beheading the mother of his Filipina …
arabnews.com/?page=4§ion=0&article=81947&d=9&m=5&y=2006&pix=wor…
These are the emulating sources from where “Moho” collects his intellectual knowledge.
Currently I am working on the modality of “Stoning my wife” subject and I will post the result.
It’s very inaccurate to make comparisons between the partition of India-Pakistan and the formation of Israel:
1. The partition of British India was between a single indigenous population divided along religious lines. Not so for Israel: an exodus of non-indigenous Jews from various countries displaced a local Palestinian population.
2. The partition of British India was a mutual decision between the two groups involved. Not so for Israel: the incoming Jewish population wanted to come in, the displaced Palestinians did not want to be displaced and had no plans of such, therefore ending up in refugee camps.
3. The partition of British India was a mutually permanent decision between the two parties involved. Not so for the formation of Israel: the incoming Jewish population considered it a permanent move, while Palestinians were displaced to refugee camps and hoped, and are still hoping, for return.
4. The reasons for the population movement in the partition of British India (fear of discrimination of a minority pop in a newly independent India) PRECEDED the formation of India/Pakistan. The formation of Israel by annexation of Palestinian land and the subsequent Jewish-Arab conflicts ANTECEDED the reason of Arab discrimination as the salient cause for a Jewish exodus (in addition to messianic aspirations, of course).
5. The partition of India was almost an after-thought after an Indian (Jinna), who was working w/ another Indian (Gandhi) in the united cause of Indian independence, considered the possibility of discrimination of a large minority in the near future. In contrast, the formation of Israel was a long-planned concerted effort from outside the region, not a local decision based on local considerations involving the local Palestinian populace of Christians, Muslims and Jews.
There is no real similarity between the formation of Israel and the partition of British India except that they occurred around the same time frame (1947) and involved people, land and the British.
You Israel haters can lie all you want but the bare facts remain. The Jews never wholly left Palestine. They purchased thousands and thousands of acres of it in the fifty years prior to 1948. They made the desert bloom and created an economy and a nation where none existed for hundreds of years. They lived side by side with the Arabs that eschewed violence against them and still do. The Arabs could have become Israelis if they wanted to and enjoyed all the benefits of a prosperous nation.
BUT
Most of the Arabs, being the sick haters that their religion makes them into, chose murder and isolation instead. The surrounding Arab nations refused to absorb them for political reasons, ie the landless Arabs made good weapons against the Jews.
Arab supporters, as far as the Israel question is concerned, have no ground to stand on other than anti-semitism. That’s what you are. Period. You really are Nazis.
Moho, if you want money thrown away, throw away a few of your own billions.
The American taxpayer doesn’t owe you guys a thing.
Arabs can become Jews and live in peace in the territories. In fact that’s their best option. Israel must do its part and inundate the Arab settlements in the territories with Judaism and Israel civilization education. Then the Arabs can be as successful at life as Jews. We are cousins afterall.