New Yorkers Face the Prospect of a Terrorism Trial in Their Backyard
I was personally on the fence about this decision after word of it first leaked out last week. I freely admit that my own personal bias has colored my view of how to proceed. Frankly, all I cared about was coming up with some sort of guilty verdict, if possible, and executing the man. If this meant a civilian trial, a military tribunal, or simply an unfortunate “accident” en route to his home country, then so be it. But satisfying my mean-spirited desires doesn’t bring us any closer to a long-term resolution of the real problem which this controversy is bringing to light.
Plenty of arguments have been made about how to proceed in the Global War on Terror and GWOT hawks have become quite comfortable in tossing around the phrase “enemy combatant.” Unfortunately, this is a phrase lacking critical definition in our legal system. Congress made some progress by approving procedures for military tribunals, though they were initially rejected by the Supreme Court and then later approved with revisions. But the fact remains that the very nature of war changed radically in the latter part of the 20th century while we continue to work within a judicial system mostly rooted in a pre-Vietnam mindset.
As much as the hawks will gnash their teeth to hear this, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his buddies are not uniformed members of the recognized military of any nation. They are, in fact, civilians after their own fashion. Therefore, treating them precisely like a prisoner of war — such as we did during World War 2 — is a process full of more holes than a Swiss cheese. But we are clearly moving toward remedies which seek to treat them differently than any other non-citizen who comes to our shores and commits a crime. But this path is also fraught with dangers.
For a brief thought experiment on the subject, imagine if a group of deranged Canadian fans of Michael Moore finished watching his latest box office flop and decided to fly down to New York. Upon arrival, they begin shooting stock brokers as they emerge from their offices, all the while chanting slogans about the evils of capitalism. Are they criminals? Or are they enemy combatants?
They fail to meet the normal standard for terrorist treatment in two regards:
- They are stubbornly “non-foreign” in appearance, with white skin and a command of the English language.
- They are not Muslims.
And yet, they are foreigners committing a wide-spread crime involving significant loss of life while spouting propaganda which directly conflicts with one of the foundations of our democracy. What do we do with them?
The more we blur the lines between military and civilian defendants, the closer we come to undermining some of the bedrock assumptions upon which our nation was founded. Nidal Hasan provides us with another example of this quandary. He is conveniently a member of our military, and therefore subject to a different system of justice than the average American. (That being the Uniform Code of Military Justice.)
But what if he had been a civilian family member or base employee? Would he be a criminal or a terrorist? The man is an American citizen and entitled to the same protections as the rest of us. But if we begin challenging some of these long held definitions, could American citizens lose some of their constitutionally assured rights and be lumped into military tribunals with the likes of KSM? It’s an unsettling thought.
It seems clear that more work remains in our efforts to redefine our legal system to handle the challenges of war in the modern era. While it will fall upon Congress to do the heavy lifting, the president needs to be leading the way in setting the direction for these changes. By sending one group of terrorist to New York’s civilian courts and another to face a closed, military tribunal, Barack Obama is simply further muddying the waters. We need a clear process to handle cases such as this which will punish the guilty while still ensuring that our nation remains a beacon of justice and American citizens maintain the rights to which they are entitled. Thus far, we’re not getting any real resolution and politics appears to be trumping the need for constitutional clarity.
These farcical “trials” of men all of whom have already admitted their guilt cannot possibly be a feather in anyone’s cap, considering what they’re going to cost the national security of the United States.
It might take a year or two more to set in, but eventually the overwhelming majority of Americans are going to realize that Barack Hussein Obama’s true agenda is to reduce us all to a Third World country filled with fearful, defenseless subjects. My question is: However much longer it might take for us to be rid of him, will it ever be possible to undo the damage he’ll have done by then?
What nobody ever discusses regarding this issue is what effect this trial will have on New York City, specifically, Manhattan. I lived in Manhattan for most of my life (but, thankfully, moved out over 11 years ago). As anyone who lives or lived in that city can tell you, traffic is a challenge on the best of days (especially when a US President is in town or the UN has its annual general session). When the Holiday season arrives, traffic in most parts of Manhattan (specifically in Midtown or Lower Manhattan by Wall Street) slows to a crawl, making it nearly impossible to get anywhere in the city unless it’s very late at night (say, after midnight) or early in the morning (well before rush hour kicks in). Can anyone, anyone out there, imagine what this trial would do to the traffic patterns in lower Manhattan? It would make the already terrible Holiday traffic look like a joke. And this trial would last for at least two YEARS, not just a week or two. Security in lower Manhattan would be extremely tight with major roads closed (especially in front of the Federal Court and nearby areas) and lower Manhattan would basically turn into a pedestrian mall, having a major effect on businesses in the area. Trying to get goods and supplies into the area would also be difficult because of all the closed streets. People would also be discouraged from shopping at stores or eating in restaurants in the area because of security concerns (who wants to buy a sandwich in a lower Manhattan deli if they now that, at any minute, they could be killed in a terrorist attack like 9/11). People in lower Manhattan, as well as the rest of the city, would also be in constant fear of a terrorist attack taking place somewhere else in New York City during the trial. Remember, this state of affairs would last for a couple of YEARS. Traffic in lower Manhattan would back up, causing a chain reaction of even more traffic in the Midtown area. And all of these New Yorkers are going to be asked to make these sacrifices for what? Just so a bunch of killers, who could just as well be tried in Guantanamo, can get an opportunity to spew their hate and venom in a court in lower Manhattan? It is very easy to make symbolic gestures effecting New York City when you don’t live there. Perhaps Eric Holder would sing a different tune if he lived near Wall Street.
Its sad that it appears we have to “reinvent the wheel” when it comes to justice in America. We should not have anyone in our prisons unless they put on trial, proven guilty under the law and sentenced. Its a concept that was thought about long before our country was even thought about. Why worry about where or when a trial, under the law, takes place? The fact that it takes place, is what the concept is all about. Like Nike would say….”just do it.” If we start worrying about when and where we dispense justice…then terrorism really wins. Just a thought.
#2. That problem of traffic in NYC is easily solved. Move the trials to Chicago, so the people there can fully appreciate Dear Leader’s whim.
As we seek to come to grips with Eric Holder’s decision to bring Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to New York City for a full blown civilian trial with all the trimmings, the people most affected would seem to be the denizens of the Empire State and the Big Apple themselves
You have to be pretty stupid to believe this was Holder’s decision.
The assumption that al Qaeda is going to sit out the trial is naive. The authorities may be able to protect the area of the Courthouse but al Qaeda need only strike somewhere on the island to make their point.
And anyone unlucky enough to sit on the jury will be marked by al Qaeda for life.
Obama is asking that these risks be borne by others so that he can continue his war against Bush and Cheney. He is not merely unfit, he is a disgrace.
bin Laden declared war on the United States in 1996. Clinton refused to accept America was at war with al Qaeda and America paid a heavy price. KSM is a member of al Qaeda. America is still at war with al Qaeda. War leaders are tried before military commissions, not juries.
Obama’s mouthpiece Holder says KSM should be tried by a jury because he killed civilians. By the perverse logic of Obama if you attack military targets like The Cole you are tried before a military commission but if you commit the more egregious war crime of attacking civilians you are afforded all the constitutional protections entailed by a jury trial.
Barack Obama is insane.
Personally, I think the current administration’s initiatives on foreign affairs and defense have disappeared down Alice’s rabbit hole. At this point nothing would surprise me. The decision to put KSM on trial in New York makes no sense, eh? So tell me something the president has done that does make sense. We have taken a step into the surreal.
This decision which could prove disastrous to our national security is just one more example of Obama’s far left agenda, his ignorance, inexperience, blind narcissism and just overall dangerous ineptness. What next? Whatever that infantile brain can come up with.
Canadians shooting stockbrokers? WTF? Civilians? Whatever these ***holes are, they aren’t civilians, Mr. Shaw. They are the worst of war criminals who target no one but innocent civilians. Your gut reaction is the right one. KSM needs to meet an unfortunate accident on the way to NYC. They don’t deserve the niceties of a justice system they not only don’t accept but in fact scorn. Our very own brand of sharia for them!
TO: All
RE: Expect….
….to hear reports of Islamists threatening to detonate a nuke in New York for having the trial there. Even if it were to kill their own people….
….they’d consider it a worthy martyrdom.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
KSM is an Al Qaeda commander. What to do with the enemies war leaders is a decision for the Commander In Chief. It cannot be delegated to a jury. If America is not at war why is Barack Obama using predator drones to attack innocent people who have not been convicted of anything?
Perhaps the Obama agenda is to disgrace our intelligence gathering capabilities and tether them for good. he’s not interested in convicting the bombers, he’s interested in embarrassing the USofA.
This whole charade has to do with hurting the US not helping..it is wrong. If this goes through in New York as a civilian/criminal trail, there will be no justice for the victims. It should be stopped and sent to the military.
They fail to meet the normal standard for terrorist treatment in two regards:
1. They are stubbornly “non-foreign” in appearance, with white skin and a command of the English language.
2. They are not Muslims.
And yet, they are foreigners committing a wide-spread crime involving significant loss of life while spouting propaganda which directly conflicts with one of the foundations of our democracy. What do we do with them?
I’m actually surprised something like this would appear in Pajamas Media. Its the closest thing to a well-thought out argument I’ve encountered here. However, given the nature of the website hosting your blog which is full of bigoted pronouncements, I’d make sure that you don’t leave such statements as the one above hanging. To normal people that would be obvious satire; but to the people who frequent this site, just another day at the ignorance factory.
Oh Momo doesn’t like us! Eat excrement Momo!
Yup, NYC is the best place to have a terrorist attack because of this trial.
Might just wake up all the ones still alseep since 9/10 and that, HEY BUBBA, ya’ll are in a real war and ya better start acting like it.
As long as the alleged attackers and EPW’s are tried anywhere far, far from me.
HEPT:
16. This is a great example of how cynically 9-11 gets used as a way for hillbillies to spout off their inane garbage. Such people don’t give a crap who lives and dies in these attacks; it simply gives them a way to lend legitimacy to their hatred of people not like them, and their antagonism toward the world. Presumably, this latter attribute evolves from a stark but subconscious realization that in all registers, they are below average and unworthy of consideration.
Altough Fox is trying to stir people up about this, I don’t think that most Americans care all that much one way or the other. I don’t.
A day without MOHO is like …. a: a day without sunshine or
b: I AM LEGEND? MOHO is so staring in his own science fiction MTV video. When Bob Dylan wrote forever young he did not have MOHO style rejuviniling in mind, OK!
Forget MOHO. MOHO is the blogging equivalent of waking the dog before Bloomberg ‘civilized’ pooper scooping in NYC with the proper regulation. He comes to PJM poops everywhere and everyone else has to clean up the hood.
So why won’t moderation properly fine MOHO & ban the mutt?
Jazz has penned an excellent piece here. I hated HAMDEN and Justice Kennedy – but the further we get into our generational obligations fighting world wide Jihad the more it all begins to make sense. Of course I agree that this wasn’t Holders decision – it was entirely political and he is doing what a AG does in such situations – taking the heat to be the Administrations point man.
This decision is completely in keeping with Obama’s whole mindset/goals as far as foreign policy – everything from the apology tour to nixing european missile defense to allowing Iran unfettered nuclear capibility to bowing to the Saudi’s (disguisting capitulation to dangerous tyrants) and now the figuerhead Japanese Imp (irrelevant state player).
The left gets a bone and NYC residents will just have to cope. To Obama and his minions this is the new Nuremburg Trials. Well we’ll see.
It’s hard but Jazz is entirely right. Consevatives need to rethink the impulse to pile on the invictive – and remember that acting like the craven party out of power (just like Democrats did with Bush on everything from Gitmo to Valerie Plame) is not only morally debasing but bad politics.
Besides nobody on the Right could begin to compete with Pelosi or Obama when it comes to craven political oppertunism even if they tried.
Watch these terrorists get off like OJ. You will have left wing terror-lovin’ lawyers painting them as perhaps misguided but ultimately spiritual freedom fighters who were subjected to torture by the evil US Army under Darth Cheney and Bu$hitler. The defense will get the most moronic jury you could imagine, who will be swayed by emotion. It will essentially be a circus where Bush and his policies will be put on trial.
Don’t think it will happen? Remember Nosair, who killed Kahane and shot a mailman? Despite overwhelming evidence, he was judged NOT GUILTY!
Do you want terror-loving lawyers involved like Lynne Stewart, who helped the Blind Sheik deliver fatwas from jail, or Ron Kuby?
MOHO is the Mohammedan Superman fearless fighting off hordes of muggers armed only with his ready wit and lightening reflexes while he protects the poor and and weak masses from the predations of the wicked conservative NeoCons. You know its true he keeps telling us it is LOL
The jury will be like the current POTUS: not properly vetted. They might do anything. Zacarias Moussaoui was involved in a plot that resulted in the massacre of 3,000 innocent people but that wasn’t serious enough to convince one juror suffering from a surfeit of the mental illness known as liberalism that he deserved the death penalty.
Now I understand, Moho is Jazz Shaw’s little helper. So Jazz is part of the 30% or less of the NYC pop. that wants to be Jihad fodder so BO can prove that the US is not the big bad boogie that the Left has been lying about for the last Century. This trial in NYC is the most idiotic thing the BO could do! Do they just want that 80% disapproval rating or something else?
LOL Phoenix48, I don’t think you actually understood what you read in Shaw’s article. You seem to have understood all the opposite of what he wrote.
Pragamatist. I’ll never understand why it gives you people such pleasure to use the term Mohammedan. As an insult its up there with Christ-Killer–water off a duck’s back. But it certainly exposes what you’re after quite well. Keep on keeping on; nothing says “I have no basis for my opinion” than such terms.
24. moho: ‘LOL Phoenix48…’
LOL MOHO – is it a ‘right brain left brain’ thing… or…a commerical thing …as in getting paid to post …propaganda?
get thee to a nunnery – or more appropriate venue – like your HUFFPO man cave…
Phoenix. That’s one of your funnier pronouncements. Kos and HuffPo are huge sites that dwarf Self-Pwnage media in readership. I hope you understand how injurious your words are, however; the idea that you don’t know the personal pleasure I take in revealing your stupidity, diminishes the act a bit. Certainly, however, that’s balanced by watching you continually accusing me of being some kind of agent of the enemy, as if that matters. If you can’t defend your positions, then it doesn’t matter who’s doing the poking. These kinds of accusations only make you look helpless and cowardly as well as stupid.
“Do you want terror-loving lawyers involved like Lynne Stewart, who helped the Blind Sheik deliver fatwas from jail, or Ron Kuby?”
Sure, they should be involved. Stewart should be executed along with the rest of the jihadist trash.
22. Pacifists cannot serve on death penalty juries. You will be dismissed if you state that you cannot impose a death sentence on anyone, regardless of evidence.
Dave Surls, LOL, you’d be right at home in a JIhad, yourself with fatwas like that.
So proud am I that Eric Holder and Barack Obama have seen the light of justice and fairness and have agreed
to treat Mr. Mohammad and his friends’ trial as a criminal justice matter. Best of all, the trial will be held in New York, the site
of Islam’s greatest triumphs.
Not only will it permit the defendants to have due process, but it’s sure to weaken the CIA by, in effect, putting
them on trial and outing everything from their advanced technology to their methods of enhanced interrogation. In a larger sense, it puts the
United States on trial, portraying them as an evil, totalitarian, bully country that butts in where they are not needed or wanted.
Further, the trial is the perfect forum to discredit the Bush administration. And to praise Barack Obama for picking up the pieces.
Under Obama, the United States thankfully is losing its will to persevere; to get involved in areas where it has no business. Actually,
the good Major Hasan was trying to get that point across peacefully, but was forced to take drastic action when no one in the Army
would listen to him. Hasan is a true Islamic patriot, and will go down in Muslim history as one of our bravest freedom fighters.
For Barack Obama, in his speech at Ft. Hood, to praise the dead and wounded soldiers of the United States I thought was politically wise.
Who could disagree with praising the dead?
What Obama refused to do was to call Hasan’s deed a terrorist act. Thanks to a President who so
artfully muddies the terrorist waters, the American public, with the help of the great New York Times and Washington Post, are a confused
leaderless lemming like numb-nutted lot.
Truly the people of the United States are like chickens who elected to open the door so the fox could have his way with them.
The brilliant Barack Obama, an apostle of the Saul Alinsky school of communism, is well on his way to spearheading America’s transformation; realizing a socialist metamorphosis that would Franz Kafka smile . In just ten months, Obama has nationalized the car industry and their means of production which is right out of the socialist playbook. He’s taken over the banking system. Wall Street is now in cahoots with him. And no one dares challenge him. He does everything from tell his country what to listen to in the media (not Rush Limbaugh or Fox news), to controlling local TV stations by threatening to not renew their licenses if they don’t march to Obama’s beat.
Plus, President Obama is in the midst of giving the press, from the NY Times to the Washington Post to the LA Times, bailout money in the hundreds of billions, which insures their paroting the Obama line, whatever Obama chooses it to be.
What might be the coupe de gras is Obama’s plan to lengthen his term in office to eight years. (two terms adding up to sixteen years) After that, a new influx of immigrants, both legal and legal to be, all voting Democratic, will be the death knell of any opposition parties.
At the same time, Rahm Emmanuel is beautifully orchestrating the politics of personal destruction aimed at the most dangerous opposition leader: Sarah Palin. The combination of lies innuendo and ridicule directed at Mrs. Palin is a thing of propaganda beauty.
New ideas include accumulating more Democratic voters by sending voter registration cards in the paychecks of all local, state and federal workers.
As well as making it mandatory for all unregistered African Americans to automatically receive a voter registration card whenever they have any business with a government entity such as the department of motor vehicles.
The major accomplishments of the greatest President in United States history, not surprisingly, is not without its opposition from American constitutionalists, assorted white male flag wavers and many members of the U.S. armed forces. Efforts are in the offing to marginalize them even more. Especially useful are TV shows like the great Bill Maher, The View, lettermen, PBS, CBS, ABC, CNN, NBC, and MSNBC news.
We have achieved much under the leadership of President Obama, the great one, in covert religious harmony with us, who reminds us there’s still more to be done.
Capitalistic notions of freedom, self reliance and liberty must be indoctrinated out of the mindset of American children, who,
through, the wisdom and guidance of pro Islamic teachers are being educated to understand they are in the midst of the dawn of a new day. Allah is great.
When the children of America believe this in their heart and soul, the ideals of America’s founding fathers will end up where they belong.
The trash heap of history.
“I Know We Are at War,” and Other DC Fables
As more and more cracks appear in the previously-impenetrable Wall of Obamian MSM Idolators, the president must be wondering if he could get away with bailouts for all of his driveby media whether they need it or not.
When “SNL” feels free to take potshots at Obama, the Times prints truthful news about him, and even Theonion.com no longer feels he is sacrosanct and beyond reproach, something may be a-brewing that could approach even-handed treatment of the president.
Some queasiness just might be settling in on the banks of the Potomac and within the White House walls as the administration gets a tad nervous.
In an appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Attorney General Eric Holder attempted to defend his decision to try 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his co-conspirators in a federal civilian court in Manhattan, within virtual spitting distance from Ground Zero.
Committee Chairman Pat Leahy (D. VT) wasn’t able to shield Holder from some hard questions concerning his decision, a decision he has contended he alone made, which is as preposterous as it is damning.
Would the President of the United States have had absolutely no input in the matter of by-passing military tribunals? If so, he is more out of touch with reality than it has seemed and once more he has contradicted himself.
Holder surprisingly admitted something Obama has long avoided by saying: “I know that we are at war. I know that we are at war with a vicious enemy who targets our soldiers on the battlefield in Afghanistan and our civilians in the streets here at home:” http://bit.ly/2OUdSp
He held fast to the Obama position that the war is not against Islamic terrorism by never mentioning that abhorrent phrase. . . .
(Read the rest at http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=1333)
This is justice. Let the libtards face the consequences of their politics. I’d rather see a terrorist atrocity in NYC,instead of in another military base.
#15 THOMAS: I feel I must set the record straight.MOHO despite his name,(mispelling of MOJON Spanish for turd)does NOT eat excrement.He throws it,usually in this website.He thinks it will dissuade us from loathing Stalinism(he would call it liberalism).let him throw it;it usually lands back in his face.
They’re TERRORISTS not just criminals. They might get a conviction in NY, but not the death penalty. NY has issued maybe 1 death sentence in 30 years. Even the terrorists who were tried there while the smoke was still rising from the trade center didn’t get the death sentence. AND, now that that idiot OBAMA has publicly said he’s guilty and will die (before there was even a trial), his attorney will fight for dismissal…saying KSM will never get a fair trial in America because the President has already tried and convicted and executed him in the minds of the public.