Psst!… I Can Make You a Deal on a Prius!
Don’t worry, environmentalists. We don’t have to drill in ANWR … I just bought a Prius!
Call it counter-programming or just a normal human response to a local pump price of $4.99 a gallon, I have done the deed. (And, yes, in the spirit of counter-programming I am thinking of slapping “McCain ’08″ and “Support our Troops” bumper stickers on the rear — only I hate ruining a new car with gooey advertisements that never come off.)
Of course, it wasn’t easy. Buying a Prius in Los Angeles these days is more difficult than scoring a bag of the purest Nepalese hash. You have to know someone who knows someone. It’s kind of like getting a counterfeit green card. The line is so long sometimes you have to wait until 2011 and then pay for so many extras you don’t want there are gee-gaws on your car you won’t know how to use ten years after buying it.
But working undercover and with the aid of a certain arcane methodology (e. g. the internet), I managed to corral one from a nearby Toyota dealer in a few weeks. The good news: the only unwanted extra I had to pay for was the ubiquitous and ever-mysterious “clear coat.” (I wanted leather seats and Bluetooth — the latter being mandatory with California’s new cell phone law about to kick in July 1.) The bad news: MSRP. I had to pay full price, shouting down my ancestors, who were yelling in unison in my head “I can get it for you wholesale!” In the words of somebody else’s ancestors: “Fuhgeddaboudit!”
Now if you’re about to tell me that I have to drive this automobile for forty-five years in order to make up the difference or that the car’s battery is a lethal environmental hazard that has to be buried for a thousand years in a hazmat vault under the MGM Grand, I don’t want to hear it. I just bought the car, fer crissakes. (Besides, this is a “light” piece, in case you haven’t noticed.)
I don’t mean to rain on your parade, but perhaps you should have see this before embarking on your quest.
http://thenakedemperor.blogspot.com/2008/06/delightful-failure.html
Enjoy
Bumper sticker: “Drive a Prius, Starve a peasant”
The fact that people are lined up around the block to buy Priuses gives me a sense of utter forgivedness about buying something else. They should be bought by people who drive at least 15k miles/year, about twice my ration.
I live in LA, shopped for a Prius, and the d(st)ealers wanted me to pay $450/month for a Prius lease. So I bought a gas powered Honda Civic at $199/month. It gets 25 city/ 36 highway. Okay, but not environmentally heroic, like Roger.
“I am thinking of slapping “McCain ‘08″ and “Support our Troops” bumper stickers on the rear – only I hate ruining a new car with gooey advertisements that never come off.)”
But those two particular bumper stickers will add significant beauty to the new Prius. As matter of fact, I can easily imagine Warren Beatty, Susan Sarandon, or Sean Penn being so impressed that they offer to purchase the car at double the price. You will also be invited to all of the best parties.
Excellent — I’m a Reagan conservative who’s always liked the Prius, so I too would like to get one and slap on an “Imagine a world without Environmentalists” bumper sticker. You can’t buy them in the city where I live either, but I’ve noticed just they’re unbelievably just sitting on the lot in some out-of-the-way places like small town Arkansas.
As a proud Prius owner since 2006 who a) supports the troops and their mission 100%, b) loves not sending my petrodollars to Saudi Arabia and c) is a scientist and antropometric global warming skeptic – I say join the crowd. Actually I do have a “Support our troops” magnet on my car – but the bumpers are non magnetic. I solved the problem with Velcro. Also great if you ever want to take off the aforementioned “statements” for any reason.
HEY ROG’
CONGRATZ ON BEING DUPED BY THE PRIUS AND AGW:
http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/2008/06/prius-is-huge-waste-of-resources.html
The Prius is a huge waste of resources
The following is a clearly correct letter to the editor of “The Australian” by Anthony Hordern of Jamison, ACT
POLITICIANS’ comments about “green’’ cars are merely techno-babble they have picked up somewhere but don’t really understand.
Hybrid vehicles are at best expensive and inefficient. Inefficient because they have two power sources instead of one, two control systems instead of one, two losses in converting mechanical power to electrical power and back again, two sources of electrical “slippage’’ (generators and motors) instead of none in a manual transmission, plus they have heavy batteries to carry around. And those costly batteries need to be replaced every two to three years.
Meanwhile, so-called “zero-emission’’vehicles require much new science before they are available in the showroom, if ever. Hydrogen takes more power to produce than it replaces and “plug-in’’ electric cars are not the answer either. Techno-illiterates assume that pollution in the Latrobe and Hunter valleys simply disappears.
Turbo diesel is the way to go right now. The technology is well proven, diesel engines are inherently more efficient than petrol ones and they last longer.
Surely the four-cylinder engine plant Holden is closing at Fishermans Bend in Melbourne could readly produce modern turbo-diesel engines with minimum re-tooling and without funds from the taxpayer.
Source:
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/letters/index.php/theaustralian/comments/diesel_engines_are_inherently_more_efficient_than_petrol
Posted by John Ray.
Dont know if they sell 320 Diesel BMWs in the US, but numbers wise, I think it would be pretty close and the Beemers a far better and safer car.
Here’s a UK comparison of a Prius up against a 5 Series Beemer. The 3 series would return better numbers than the 5 (note 1 UK gallon = 1.2 US gallons).
Yesterday on PJM, there was an excellent article on autogreenblog explaining why hybrids are past the point of diminishing returns, and you get a lot more benefit from going from a SUV to sensible car like a civic than from the civic to the prius (the article was on why we should use gpm instead of mpg).
Sorry, but unless your old car was a hummer, your prius isn’t going to make diddly worth of difference.
I don’t know what Top Gear was driving, but it certainly wasn’t the 2007 Touring Edition found in US showrooms. I traded in a 1995 BMW 318ti for my Prius in December 2006, and it now has over 50K miles on it. Touring Edition runs like a scared rabbit and gets an average 50 MPG on the interstate, which is what I mostly drive. It gets far, far better gas mileage in town. Also corners like a dream.
Agreed, the real time MPG calculator display is fascinating. It also teaches you a whole new way of driving when you can see the immediate results of right foot pressure.
Only downside is my husband, who insists on calling it a “Pius”.
For the record, for the first 90 miles of driving, I got 42 MPG. (This is supposed to improve after a couple of tanks, although at this rate it will take a while to get past the first one!) My previous car, a Jag, was getting around 12 in hellacious LA stop and go traffic, which is basically what I drive. Seems to me this is already a huge difference whether you compute via MPG or GPM.
I live in a town where it seems every other newish car is a Prius. I have come to loathe Prius drivers. Why? They think they own the road.
Lrobb: lol @ “Pius”
Roger, put those bumper stickers on! That would make me feel better about a Pius driver
When will the Prius evaluators honestly and accurately factor in the carbon footprint of the extra labor and materials required to manufacture TWO separate power plants, control systems and that monster short-lived battery?
Life cycle costing would be appropriate here, particularly addressed to the manufacture and disposal costs of that mega-battery. Oh, and the extra power required to lug its weight along on every inch traveled.
And how much extra carbon-footprinting work must the proud owner exert in order to earn the price of that battery every two or three years?
I definetly put a McCain bumper sticker on the back of my Prius after I bought it. Just about every Prius in Illinois has an Obama sticker on the back and I didn’t want any one to confuse me with one of his supporters. Enjoy your Prius. I love mine.
Now that you’ve switch, everyone in LA is going to go with either a Tesla or a hydrogen car.
If your old car got 12, then this is a huge improvement. The point of the autogreenblog article is that if you got a 30 mpg car instead, you would be getting almost as much of an improvement. It’s simple arithmetic. Assume that you drive 10,000 miles. At 12 mpg, you use 10,000/12 = 833 gallons. At 30, it’s 10,000/30 = 333. At 50, it’s 10,000/50 = 200. The 30 mpg car saves 500 gallons, and the 50 mpg car saves an additional 133. So your advantage at 50 mph over the car that gets 30 is an additional 26%. The lion’s share of the savings was simply from getting rid of the pig, regardless of what economy car replaces it.
This isn’t significant in your case, because you were able to afford a Prius, but people who can’t and are driving pigs should get a Kia or a Civic or something instead of thinking that the hybrids are the only alternatives.
We fetishize hybrids way too much at the expense of the environment.
The economist in a recent podcast says that the payback time for the prius is the quickest at 3 years, ignoring costs other than gas. The break even time for the lexus SUV is 100 years
Did you keep the Jag?
What’s mystifying to me is how people in LA are wait-listed to buy a Prius whereas the local Nissan dealerships seem to be overstocked with the Altima Hybrid and are selling them below invoice from what I hear. I bought one last February and absolutely love it. Granted, I only put about 8000 miles a year on my car since my commute is so short (impressive for Los Angeles, eh?), but I’ve only had to fill my tank 3 times since getting the car 4 months ago. I’m getting @35 mpg, and when I want the performance & quick acceleration I used to get in my old car, like in zipping uphill onto a freeway with the a/c blasting, it’s certainly there.
Nissan is only selling the Altima Hybrid in the Northeast and in California, so they are nowhere near the quota that will cut you off from the generous tax credit from buying one. Between that and the surplus, you can get the hybrid Altima for basically the same price, if not less, than the regular Altima sedan. The innards are exactly the same as the Toyota Camry Hybrid (Nissan currently licenses Toyota’s tech while they are developing their own) which sells for thousands more and has no tax credit. Since I was ready for a new car anyway and an Altima was among what I was looking at, getting the hybrid mileage for essentially no extra cost up front negated any of the math you wind up doing to see if the fuel savings are actually worth it.
Roger, congrats on the new car! I hope you love driving it and don’t get too distracted by looking at the mileage computer instead of the road. Perhaps they’ll be outlawing them along with cellphones in California soon. And for all of you who don’t like the Prius for its look or performance issues, give the Altima a look. Car companies need to be encouraged to get into a real pissing match over who can build the most fuel-efficient car, so the wider variety of the current technologies that are snapped up by new car buyers, the better.
With one’s disposable income siphoned away by the giant capital cost of a fashionable hybrid automobile, the following may appeal to the ordinary, but socially conscious, citizen as well as the less well-to-do.
I thought in the 70s, with gas reaching $1 per gallon, that this idea was timely, but now it’s even more so: affordable housing provided by the meeting of ‘high’ fuel costs and ‘high’ real estate costs.
On one urban lot, erect an open steel framework capable of installing six stories of RVs stacked one above the other. Install water, phone, cable, gas and electrical utilities, with the water capable of feeding an overall high-capacity sprinkler system in case of a fire in any unit. Provide an elevator for residents who can’t use the common stairways.
RVs will be dirt cheap due to fuel prices, yet each furnishes ready-made living quarters for two to four people – an average urban family now. Remove and recycle engines and running gear, hoist units into position and fasten securely to the steel frame. Add planters for vegetation per taste.
Unit costs for such ‘apartments’ would be a very small fraction of modern condo costs, let alone single family residences. In other words, these would provide housing that would be affordable by any ordinary wage-earner, without the bloated overhead of the subsidies consumed by the politicized version of ‘affordable’ housing.
Yes, yes, the ADA nixes this concept to about half the extent that the politics of ‘growth management’ (which purports to mandate increased densities in urban areas) would do. Such creative concepts are regularly crushed by the vetoes of the dog-in-the-manger and the princess-and-the-pea crowds. Yet the economics and practical feasibility of this proposal, created simply by rising fuel and property prices, both point to a solution for homelessness that is immediately attractive, but for the tortured politics of urban living.
And to placate the lords of growth management, limit the parking at such a complex to just two hybrids, to force collective transportation choices.
I just went on a 3000 mile trip in a 05 Prius. Going west, against a head-wind, I got 54 mpg (that actual total miles divided by actual fuel used). Coming east, with a tail wind, but going through two rain storms, it was 56 mpg.
On the long-distance days, I only filled up once a day. The two times I got the “blinking light”, once I drove 470 miles (more local driving on bad roads and in cooler weather) & and filled up 9 gal.; the second time I drove 540 miles and filled up 9.6 gallon. (The gas tank of the Prius is supposedly 11.9 gallons, I’ve never gotten it close.)
In response to reliapundit: where are your figures for the need to replace batteries every “two to three years”? I purchased mine in Oct 05, i.e., I’m going on 3 years; there is no sign of a need for battery replacement.
I’m am not aware of ANY such need, even in the older first-generation Priuses.
The Prius is not a miracle car. But it is a durn good car for anyone who has no choice to drive a lot (for me, 350-400 miles a week), but wants to save gas, money, and the time of filling up 2 X week.
Besides, my wife says it has made me a better (i.e., nicer, kinder) driver.
My Saturn SW2 has gotten mileage in the 30s since 2000, without any massive batteries with all the related issues, nor any massive complexity in the drive train. Cost me less than $20,000, carries four adults or a large amount of gear when I need it.
The Prius is a scam to separate those vulnerable to a psy-ops campaign. Cars that get good mileage for a low cost of entry have always been available and not-so-cheap luxury versions have been there, too. If mileage and affordability were really what was driving the market, we’d be demanding the return of the Geo Metro. A friend had one of those in the late 80s. Consistently got near to 50 MPG on his daily commute. Dust off the old blueprints, give it some niceties like an MP3/DVD deck and you’ve got a far better value, monetarily and ecologically, than the fashion accessory called Prius.
Funny thing about the Prius and other hybrids; THEY STILL USE OIL/GAS! It’s all a sham. If automobile makers want to impress me, then create a car (some have) that requires zilch oil/gasoline. Most people buying these hybrids have a chronic case of enviro-guilt.
The Prius is an evelutionary step. I suspect it will hold the same spot in automotve history as the Stanly Steamer, an interesting diversion that did’t work out.
The key will be nuke power plants. Nukes will make plug ins possible. Nukes will supply the energy to turn water into hydrogen. Nukes would supply the electricity to move the rerigerated trains to move that hydrogen from the coasts to the hinterlands.
Trouble is, we don’t have nukes and we probably aren’t gonna get ‘em. Well, at least not until we form lynch mobs and get rid of the glow bull worming and China syndrome idiots.
One does need to look at overall economy and usefulness.
A new Prius, including everything (TTL) is around 25K out the dealer’s door. Figuring 18K miles per year (my normal usage), I’ll put 72K miles on it. Let’s say I get 50 mpg, I’d burn 1440 gallons during the time I own it, at $4/gal, that’s $5760 in gas. Total cost of vehicle ownership (not counting ins, finance, maint) will be $30760
I just bought a used Dodge Ram, 2007, program vehicle. Total cost out the dealers door was $15K. Even. I get about 18 mpg, with a flex fuel V8. Those same 72K miles will burn 4000 gallons of fuel at a cost of $16k. total = $31,000
So the difference over the life of the vehicle in my care is about $240, or about $60/year.
And I live in a rural area. I use the bed of my truck frequently, and occasionally in my profession. So to save $60/year and then have to rent a truck when I need a bed makes such vehicles uneconomical.
For the US to get away from an oil economy will take vehicles that not only perform as well as the oil based ones, but are less costly as well.
For all of the questionable economics of a Prius, one can be assured that the car screams out “I care about the environment more than you do.”
I used to get 42 MPG on the highway with a 4 cylinder, 5-speed Honda Accord. You just have to drive at about 60 MPH on relatively flat roads with few stops and not use California gas.
Billy Bob will gitcha.
Put the bumper stickers on. When they need to be replaced, take out your hairdryer and heat the stickers up. They’ll come off cleanly, leaving no residue.
Peter sez:
“The Prius is an evolutionary step.”
Star on his forehead for getting it. This is how Toyota gets on the learning curve for electrics. This won’t be an enduring mature technology. Microturbine hybrids maybe. There won’t be any reciprocating hybrids in 2050. Prius owners are guinea pigs, although Toyota has done a good job of avoiding major issues so far.
To Roark and Mace:
I do not have “enviro-guilt”. I do not even believe that global warming is anthropogenic. I voted for GWB twice. I will vote for McCain. Please refrain from stereotyping.
Otherwise:
The Prius is not right for everyone. But drive it right, and it will get first-class fuel economy (I calculate about 54 mpg over the life of my car; and I’ve driven it over 45K.)
I have had NO mechanical problems–standard oil, lube, maintenance, and two flat tires. That’s it.
With regard to the Geo: I have no doubt that it was a great little car. But I would not have driven 4 people with all their luggage 1200 miles in a Geo. My previous car was an Acura Integra Coupe. I could get 30 mpg. But with my amount of weekly travel, I was stopping every 3 or 4 days for gas. Now I go between 440 to 550 miles per fillup: 7 to 10 days.
Finally, on the general economics: the Consumers Reports puts the cost-of-ownership of a Prius over five years at $27,500. That assumed $3/gallon gas (!) and 12K per year. (I drive 15K per year.) It also assumed 44 mpg (compared to my 54 mpg). I roughly calculate that my improved mileage lowers my cost-of-ownership by $1200. Even under those conservative assumptions, the Prius was the most economical of “Family” Cars, and comparable to the better “Small” cars (the least expensive cost-of-ownership, was the manual Yaris, at $23,250; the most expensive “Small” cars being upwards of $31K).
As always, one must decide what is important. Although the Yaris, Honda Fit, and other similar cars have come out recently, they were not available when I purchased my Prius, and, in any case, they are not comparable in driving, ride, and space to the Prius.
There’s only on thing as bad as those people who smugly look down on the rest of us because they own a Prius. Those who smugly look down at Prius owners for having the audacity to choose a reliable, fuel efficent automobile. Are those of you so revulsed at owning the same car Sean Penn does that you change your purchasing decisions any better than those who buy Priuses for environmental reasons? I’ll give you a hint, that was a rhetorical question and the answer is no.
Let’s knock down a couple of the silly objections being raised here:
“the extra power required to lug [the dual power plants'] weight along on every inch traveled.” Yeah, that’s included in the gas mileage, gas doesn’t cost more because your car has a battery.
“Prius owners are guinea pigs” The Prius is at this point a proven, reliable automobile which runs on gasoline. You are not testing anything.
“THEY STILL USE OIL/GAS! It’s all a sham.” I mean, seriously, it’s a car that uses less gas than any other saving you money in a market in which (essentially) no vehicles are available that do not run on gas. If running on oil/gas disqualifies it then you aren’t driving a car, period.
“massive batteries with all the related issues, nor any massive complexity in the drive train.” The car has years of reliability data now. It is reliable and efficient. Given that, why do I care how complex it is? Do you use an abacus instead of a computer to avoid “complexity”?
“how much extra carbon-footprinting work must the proud owner exert in order to earn the price of that battery every two or three years?” You don’t have to replace the battery that often.
“I have come to loathe Prius drivers. Why? They think they own the road.” I also choose to base multi-thousand dollar purchasing decisions on my feelings about people I don’t know.
“hybrids are past the point of diminishing returns, and you get a lot more benefit from going from a SUV to sensible car like a civic” True, you also get less benefit from installing air bags in cars after you already have seat belts. I still appreciate having air bags in my car and provided you drive a fair amount the Prius wins against cars like the Civic at current gas prices in straight dollars and cents.
David Layman said it best, the Prius is not a miracle car, the prices currently are even a bit inflated by the massive demand for what is seen as a future-gas-price-proof automobile. That doesn’t matter. It still makes simple economic sense, without any consideration of the environment for those of you who go out of your way to avoid such considerations. Even thenakedemperors cost comparison of a Dodge Ram to the Prius showing them about equal over 4 years falls apart when you consider that the resale value of that 4-year old Prius will be about $10,000 higher than the Ram.
Don’t let common sense and simple dollar and cents comparison distract y’all from your celebrity based buying habits though. I know it might save you money, but if Sean Penn drives it how could you be caught dead in it?
what’s so bad about sean penn?
I have no problem with an individual’s desire to purchase a PRIUS. In fact I am an ardent defender of laissez-faire capitalism. I can care less what an individual drives. My point is that the PRIUS is a clever marketing gimmick, because it still uses oil/gas as its PRIMARY fuel. It’s complete hypocrisy in lieu of the junk science global warming scare that they are all in a panic about.
P-eople’s
R-reason
I-n
U-tter
S-uspension
So now that you’ve got that Prius, can you hook a brother up with some Nepalese hash?
I’m delighted to see all the smart people who don’t own a Prius commenting that the Prius is all hype, all problems, and no savings. I’m delighted that so many of you won’t be on the waiting list for the 2009 Prius when my wife gets hers.
“the extra power required to lug [the dual power plants’] [uh, and BATTERY -ed.] weight along on every inch traveled.”
Yeah, that’s included in the gas mileage, gas doesn’t cost more because your car has a battery.
Whether or not it’s included in the gas mileage, lugging that extra weight consumes more energy than not lugging extra weight, and damages the pavement more too. An efficient gas engine and light car will do as well or better, and cost overall less energy and less road wear than the multi-manufactured, multi-equipped Prius.
To D Mayer:
Nicely put. I’m saving for my next Prius, maybe a ’11 or ’12, with plug-in option (for all-electric, for short distances and low speeds).
Roger, in-town LA driving is hell on the gas mileage due to the stop-and-go traffic. If I drive when there’s any traffic, I get about 45 in my Honda Insight hybrid, but do super-well on the freeway — getting around 60 mpg when traffic’s moving. Like at 3am.
I bought my car in 2004 because I think it’s nasty to foul the air and other people’s lungs any more than absolutely necessary (and I’m not riding my bike across Los Angeles in a dress and high heels, thanks). My Insight is a SULEV — a Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle — and the battery is under warranty for 10 years.
Also, I can’t see using one more drop of gas than necessary, given our soldiers being over there in the Middle East. But, for the oil wealth, the Saudis would still be goatherds.
On another energy note, I’m utterly appalled that Bush is giving the Saudis nuclear welfare, funded by the U.S. taxpayer.
Oh yeah, and did I mention what I spent on gas? $228. Last year. All year. Proud Non-supporter of OPEC.
Sorry, this is snarky, this one I just couldn’t let go,
“Whether or not it’s included in the gas mileage, lugging that extra weight consumes more energy”
I’m embarassed for the educators that tried to teach you critical thinking.
Do you think the “extra energy” that is not accounted for by gas mileage is supplied by angels? by wishes? by positive thinking? Gasoline is THE ONLY SOURCE OF ENERGY the Prius has…
Back in London my neighbor bought a Prius. I had an Alfa Romeo 147 (small 4 door) turbo….. Diesel.
Well we did the maths after a month or so and I was getting considerably better gas mileage than he was and that was even though he was doing a fair bit more highway miles than I was.
Fact was my 60 liter tank (15.8 US Gal) (on a highway trip) could do (and did on a trip to Cornwall and back) 750 miles which gives around 50 MPG (US). That’s a real number from a real trip I took and I didn’t spare the horses. If I wanted to hit 90 MPH on the motorway, I did.
Now until the recent disproportionate rise in Diesel in the UK the running costs of my sporty Alfa were less than the Prius, the leather was way nicer and it didn’t look like a Noddy car (you’ll have to look that up yourselves
But hey, welcome to the party America, so glad you’re discovering that you don’t need to move 2.5 ton of useless steel everytime you pop out for a newspaper.
BTW, at today’s prices filling up my Alfa in the UK would now cost $160. You’ve got a long way to go here and please, for everyone’s sake, drill some damn holes in Alaska before you get to $8 and stop giving all your money to people who hate us!
I wonder if Toyota will come out with a flex fuel Prius? That would really cut down on gas requirements from OPEC sources, especially a plug in version! For the life of me, I don’t understand why California dropped its methanol (M85) program. Methanol can be made cost competitively from any surplus organic material and has zero effect on food prices. It also can capture for use flared methane from oil fields as well as being efficiently made from coal. For those interested – I highly recommend RObert Zubrin’s book “Energy Victory”. Until fission and eventually fusion nuclear power is available, it is by far the best way to get independent of OPEC. Due to the lack of flex fuel vehicles and alcohol fuel where I live on the east cost, I view the Prius, despite any slightly higher purchase price, as my patriotic contribution to avoid OPEC oil. Despite the corporate welfare of ethanol subsidies, I support those too for the same reason – I’d rather our dollars go to support agribusiness in the US than have us pay more at the pump for gas which enriches the petrotyrants and puts our soldiers and potentially ourselves at risk.
After seeing a prius after an auto accident with a large truck and all occupants were dead and the car was crushed like a coke can on the pave pavement I am glad that I am driving my 2008 Seqouia and caN AFFORD THE GAS EVEN IF IT GOES TO 20 DOLLARS A GALLON!
Congratulations!.
I have a full size van full of tools that I need and since the forced ethanol scam, my mileage has dropped to near 15mpg, and gas has gone over $4, I started looking around for a second vehicle for about half the time when I didn’t need the van, and put out the word to fellow stiffs. In a couple of weeks I got a call about a used, ten year old VW Jetta, for free (my kind of price point). It had 210k miles, some rust, an emissions rejection, the hood was keyed with ‘Tow Zone’ and the owner wanted it out real bad out of his landlord’s parking spot. I gave him a hundred to seal the deal right then and there. I internet ordered a couple of hundred dollars in basic parts (half the price of local auto parts stores) and spent a couple of intimate weekends. (Ice-cold beer tastes religious after a day of torching off rusted bolts)
Now, a low 30mpg transportation vehicle that might well last another 4 years.
Recycled vehicle $100.
Parts, beer and ice $240.
Saudi heartburn Priceless.
One thing I have not seen mentioned here,
Things I have read is that the Prius does not make money for Toyota, ie, they sell it for less than they have in it.
Toyota has to sell high profit vehicles, the trucks and suv’s in order to keep selling Prius’s.
So…. if they don’t make any profit how can they sell any Pruis’s?
Dadofhomeschoolers.
I’m embarassed for the educators that tried to teach you critical thinking.
And I’m disgusted at Lyddea’s inability to comprehend a phrase as clear as lugging that extra weight consumes more energy than not lugging extra weight, and damages the pavement more too. The essence of this discussion is minimizing energy consumption – the Prius is just a tool for attempting that.
If Gasoline is THE ONLY SOURCE OF ENERGY the Prius has…</i), then it’s elementary that a more efficient car which doesn’t lug that extra weight up every hill in the County will consume less energy than the glamorous Prius which luggeth.
If ‘critical thinking’ is supposed to be superior to the science we learned in the 50s, I eagerly anticipate the first critical thinker’s announcement of our salvation through his/her/its development of the New Progressive Perpetual Motion Machine. Not even an Obama-driven Prius could compete with it.
My wife bought a Prius 2 years ago because she was fed up with filling her tank twice a week on her 50 mile a day commute to Santa Monica. Now she gets twice the mileage as before. We bought it for straight pocketbook reasons; not because of MMGW or “carbon footprint” rubbish, or “status”, but just cold hard cash. And to give a poke in the eye to the Saudi kleptocrats. When somebody makes a plug-in, we’ll buy that.
Roger doesn’t mention the best selling-point of the Prius in California. Early-adapters like myself received special Clean Air stickers issued by the DMV that lets us fly solo down the freeways’ HOV/diamond lanes (I’m thinking they should be renamed “hybrid lanes,” heh-heh). We also park free at city meters. The former has shaved my 20-mile commute down from 3/4 of an hour to a breezy 25 minutes. And the latter has saved me who-knows-how-much in parking fines. Such time- and money-savings features should be factored into the Prius’ overall economy.
Alas, poor Roger isn’t eligible for these perks. They maxxed out after the first 75,000 Priuses and Civics sold in California.
It always saddens me — as I zip by at 65 mph, waving at the CHP — to see newer hybrid owners sprinkled through the gridlocked herd creeping up the 110 freeways.
BTW, the stickers is good through 2011.
Good on ya, Roger, enjoy your new car. I have a 2002 GMC Sierra with 170,000 miles on it, okay mileage, drive it all over Northern Virginia and DC. Drove it originally all over South Louisiana . Am I gonna trade it in for something smaller? Nope, she’s paid for, she runs just fine and when it goes to hell weather wise, she drives right through it . I like to see over everyone else and that is a huge help on the Beltway.
It’s all about what you like, what you need and what you’re comfortable with . Enjoy your Prius, they are kind of neat .
It is Funny and STRANGE that WE Hear “nothing ‘ about Propane or Natural Gas other than for home use and Business use.
But if you go to Toronto Canada you will see many Govt Cars , Buses , Trucks and all Cabs using very clean Natural and Propane Gas .
My Local AC and heat Pump mechanic here in VA has a propane Natural Gas using CO. Truck .He even converted his Wives and his own car to NATURAL GAS as well .It is converted rather easily he told me .
He loves it and America has Trillions of metric tons of Natural Gas as does Canada . His 100 gallon propane tank in his back yard .
And it’s a Hold bunch cheaper that The OIL CARTEL ….. OPAC SCAM !
It is Funny and STRANGE that WE Hear “nothing ‘ about Propane or Natural Gas other than for home use and Business use.
But if you go to Toronto Canada you will see many Govt Cars , Buses , Trucks and all Cabs using very clean Natural and Propane Gas .
My Local AC and heat Pump mechanic here in VA has a propane Natural Gas using CO. Truck .He even converted his Wives and his own car to NATURAL GAS as well .It is converted rather easily he told me .
He loves it and America has Trillions of metric tons of Natural Gas as does Canada .(I MEANT 1000 ) TANK Not His 100 gallon propane tank in his back yard .
And it’s a Hold bunch cheaper that The OIL CARTEL ….. OPAC SCAM !
Its a farce, you just payed $12000 extra to save 5mpg over a good cheap economy car(let alone $20,000 over a used one). There is not environmentalist about buying a NEW car using new batteries and resources . Being ‘environmentally friendly’ would consist of buying a used economy car. Let alone the car itself, which has no acceleration, handles poorly, and has an uber-cheap interior. On long hills the battery runs out quickly leaving you with a 60hp car for the rest of the climb.
Eventually your battery will end up being unceremoniously shipped to a third world country for simple burial in the sand by barefoot children… Oh, and the sweatshop workers that build them. Yay, go Prius.
Toyota in Japan is often in trouble with the government for worker conditions and policies. The Prius plant is heavily under the gun right now:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=127529
and more:
http://www.autospies.com/news/Toyota-Linked-to-Human-Trafficking-and-Sweatshop-Abuses-31258/
Kay:
1. a report by a ” a self-described human rights advocacy group”. Uh-huh.
2. I get much better than 5 mpg more than “good cheap economy car”–something like 15 to 20 mpg more.
3. I have never had any problem accelerating into traffic.
4. Handles poorly? My previous car (as I said earlier) was an Acura Integra Coupe. While the Prius is not up to that standard, it does very well. I have never had a a turn or curve that I couldn’t take. Besides, at my age, I don’t need the sports car feel anymore.
5. Cheap interior? Whatever. I like nice things. It’s fine by me. Lots of cubby holes to put things.
6. Hills? As my grand-dad would say: “What goes up, must come down.” There’s one steep hill I take 3 times a week in my school-year. Sure I take it easy up the hill. But coming back down on the way back, I’m going 60 mph on battery power.
7. Why do you hate the Prius so? Just about everyone who has one loves it. Consumers Reports asks members the question, “Considering everything, would you buy this car over again”? Prius owners give the highest percentage OF ANY CAR: 92% say “definitely yes.”
As someone else said, keep on hating it. That leaves more for the rest of us.
Of course the Prius cult gives a 92% rating. Toyota in general has some of the strangest things with customer opinion I have ever seen. I had clients come in on Toyota products with sludge issues(non-hybrid Camry) and had to replace a motor out of pocket(UNDER WARRANTY MILEAGE). And if asked, ‘other then the new engine, its been very reliable’. I sold Toyotas for a few years up through 2007. I’m not going to get into the experience of selling them, South Park covers it pretty well. You’re pretty much selling them to a zombie though so it was always an easy sale. $26k Prius gets about 42mpg if you have a normal commute.
I bought a used 03 Focus for $7k(with heated leather seats) that gets about 35. My other vehicles are an 07 Mustang GT(weekends only), a Ducati Monster S2(50mpg sport bike, $9k), and a Suzuki Burgman 400(maxi scooter). The Burgman cost me $4500 with 1500 miles on it, has enough storage for a 3 day trip, and gets 67mpg(and goes over 100mph). The scooter, Focus, and Ducati all cost less then the Prius(with room for another new bike or used car to spare-maybe a used Miata to club race??). I’ve driven a few hundred Prius over time so they’re no ‘mystery’ to me. Its a tin box of a car.
If you are buying it as a CAR, there’s not much to interest a driver(unless of course one of the boobs that’s drawn to cheap LCD screens like crows to bottle caps-wow pretty lights!). If you are buying it as a PRIUS, then, well, it doesn’t really matter what anyone says.
Okay, okay, I get it, I get it.
Many of you think that Prius owners are self-righteous, uummm, jerks, blinded by left-wing propaganda.
And here I thought conservatives (of which I count myself as one) were guided by reason, whereas liberals were guided by emotion.
Whatever.
Meanwhile, I have a car that goes 450-550 miles between fillups, got 54 mpg on a 3000 mile trip, has given no mechanical problems in 45,000 miles, and can be trusted to travel 350-400 miles a week when I go between 3 schools to teach.
You don’t like it? Think (or, feel) what you want.
I’m the one driving it, thank you very much.
The problem with the Prius owners is that:
To prove the mpg smugness factor, they have to drive extra ‘just to show you’.
See the example of the 3000 miles trip on an 05 Prius.
always right:
????
My motivation is really none of your business, but I will say this: My parents and some siblings live in the “boonies.” I have made maybe a dozen flights there and back, and it has always been a pain (multiple connections, flying in “puddle-jumpers,” etc.). And given the current state of the airlines, it is getting worse. I drove to be able to make a judgment based on experience about the relative expense, enjoyment, and comfort of a driving versus flying.
I NEVER drive for the sake of pleasure or driving. (I do quite enough to go to work.)
The stereotyping, ad hominem, and straw-man argumentation by the anti-Prius people on this thread is appalling. Given the character of PajamasMedia.com, I assume most of the commenters here think of themselves as “conservative.” Beware lest you confirm your political opponents’ worst prejudices about you.
I am a Prius owner who loves driving around in her cloud of “smug.” I am also a former standard transmission BMW driver who learned to drive in her Dad’s Jaguar XKE. (Remember those–they spent more time in repair than on the road, but they drove like a dream?)
I am a driver’s driver. I spend 50K miles a year on the road. (Thank heavens for XM satellite radio!) What I drive is a 2007 Prius Touring Edition. I drove the standard Prius and yawned. It was no fun at all. Then I drove the Touring Edition. This is a totally different car.
I live in South Carolina which is somewhat far from LA. My reason for buying the Prius was a fun car that saved me tons of money–even more tons recently. I am ambivalent about global warming, tend to vote right leaning, and shoot quail which I eat.
Please don’t stereotype Prius drivers!
“And to placate the lords of growth management, limit the parking at such a complex to just two hybrids, to force collective transportation choices.”
“[F]orc[ing] collective transportation choices” sounds like something Stalin would say. What planet are you on? Why don’t you just move to Cuba?
Re: David WL @Jun 25, 2008 – 4:34 pm (also partly Irobb)
Calm down. My post has nothing to do with political leaning, be it conservative or liberal. However, I stand by my statements. Prius owners will come up with all kinds of justifications for them to drive their new toy.
Notice that I never questioned if your trip was necessary. Merely pointing out that for all the gripes about air-travel, the flight is still taking place, used up almost the same amount of fuel whether you choose to use the service or not.